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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit: The three key concessions

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  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    Some interesting EV stats here:
    http://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/

    China is the clear world leader - but it's notable that over a third of new cars in Norway are already electric.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,828

    TGOHF said:

    Oh god.

    Raab would be like ten times better if you want the job done.
    Davis for a year then Gove is better than Boris.

    Gove would be far better at the detail on all this.
    PM - DD

    Gove - COTE

    Raab - Brexit Sec (but empowered not emasculated like Theresa May)


    Where would that leave Boris though? :D
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    Dura_Ace said:

    Oh god.

    Raab would be like ten times better if you want the job done.
    Don't be so dismissive of DD. Perhaps a chronically lazy and malignantly stupid ideologue is what Brexit needs at this stage of the game. He was Head of European Photocopier Procurement at Tate & Lyle you know.
    LOL! Love it!
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578
    Yorkcity said:

    Can not argue with that seems a good idea to break the May log jam.

    Another bonus is David Davis is an ex council house lad from York who made good .
    Be nice for the city to be associated with a new Prime Minster.

    Harold Wilson as a boy lived in York for while.
    His father ran the poor house.

    My grandfather on my mother's side ,always said up to his death his dread of ever having to go there.
    Which thankfully was never the case.
    If the Tories attempt to change leader now the government will implode and the Brexit process will collapse with it. So all I can say is......go for it!
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422
    murali_s said:

    ToryJim said:

    Isn't DD somewhat responsible for the current clusterfuck? Had he been more engaged in his last job, better prepared or just slightly more intelligent. I think it would be kinder and quicker if the Conservative party just legally dissolved itself. DD is as thick as shit with none of the utility of it...
    To coin a phrase, DD is not the solution to the Brexit problem, he is the Brexit problem!

    A sharp tool like Barnier made him look what he is - a clueless, lazy but jovial dullard.
    I think Barnier just sat back spooling out the rope waiting for the inevitable to happen.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    I see only 3 possible ways out:

    1. Ask the Northern Irish in a referendum whether they are prepared to remain within the SM/CU without the ability to vote for the rules affecting them and with a border between them and the rest of the country they belong to. If they are, then the rest of us can hardly complain and we can do the deal that is apparently 85% agreed. If they are not, then the EU’s proposal breaches the principle of consent contained in the GFA.

    2. Start planning immediately for a NoDeal exit and try, if at all possible, to have some mini-deals in place for planes, medecines etc. Then face life alone without the benefit of previous economic arrangements and see what trade deals can be agreed.

    3. A referendum to see whether Britain wants to go ahead with a NoDeal or to Remain. This would have to be before 29 March and if Remain were to win we withdraw Article 50.

    All have risks attached. But faffing about is no longer an option. I don’t care much about May’s future. She’s not up to it and a new face may help, who knows. Nor do I care about the Tories who have got us into this mess. But we need to get real - and fast - about the options open to us.

    I agree with most of what you say.
    However when thinking about the issue of Northern Ireland we shouldn't forget that the Good Friday Agreement was difficult enough to achieve but was made much easier by the fact that both Eire and the UK were members of the EU.
    Leaving the EU is a big problem for NI. The EU's suggestion is based on what would be best for Eire, the country remaining in the EU whilst the UK's suggestion is based on what is best for TMay's government which is kept afloat by the DUP.
    As with a lot of things to do with Brexit, 'I wouldn't start from here'.
    Agree - and of course NI voted to Remain. So given that the issue of the Irish border seems to be the issue here why not get the N Irish to vote on it. The DUP do not necessarily reflect the views of Northern Ireland.
    But they do reflect the views as that is who has been elected. The people of Northern Ireland have had not just one but two elections since the referendum. In both of them the DUP have been duly elected as the largest party in Northern Ireland. So its not for May's benefit to involve them in the discussions it reflects the people who have voted whether we like it or not to elect them.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333
    murali_s said:

    ToryJim said:

    Isn't DD somewhat responsible for the current clusterfuck? Had he been more engaged in his last job, better prepared or just slightly more intelligent. I think it would be kinder and quicker if the Conservative party just legally dissolved itself. DD is as thick as shit with none of the utility of it...
    To coin a phrase, DD is not the solution to the Brexit problem, he is the Brexit problem!

    A sharp tool like Barnier made him look what he is - a clueless, lazy but jovial dullard.
    Heard about your adventures yesterday. Well done you. The sad fact is that if you approach someone under those circumstances there is an expectation that it will not be taken well.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333
    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Oh god.

    Raab would be like ten times better if you want the job done.
    Davis for a year then Gove is better than Boris.

    Gove would be far better at the detail on all this.
    PM - DD

    Gove - COTE

    Raab - Brexit Sec (but empowered not emasculated like Theresa May)


    Where would that leave Boris though? :D
    Bringing down the Expedia website like the rest of us trying to escape.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Where would that leave Boris though? :D

    Up himself
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,216
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    I see only 3 possible ways out:

    1. Ask the Northern Irish in a referendum whether they are prepared to remain within the SM/CU without the ability to vote for the rules affecting them and with a border between them and the rest of the country they belong to. If they are, then the rest of us can hardly complain and we can do the deal that is apparently 85% agreed. If they are not, then the EU’s proposal breaches the principle of consent contained in the GFA.

    2. Start planning immediately for a NoDeal exit and try, if at all possible, to have some mini-deals in place for planes, medecines etc. Then face life alone without the benefit of previous economic arrangements and see what trade deals can be agreed.

    3. A referendum to see whether Britain wants to go ahead with a NoDeal or to Remain. This would have to be before 29 March and if Remain were to win we withdraw Article 50.

    All have risks attached. But faffing about is no longer an option. I don’t care much about May’s future. She’s not up to it and a new face may help, who knows. Nor do I care about the Tories who have got us into this mess. But we need to get real - and fast - about the options open to us.

    I agree with most of what you say.
    However when thinking about the issue of Northern Ireland we shouldn't forget that the Good Friday Agreement was difficult enough to achieve but was made much easier by the fact that both Eire and the UK were members of the EU.
    Leaving the EU is a big problem for NI. The EU's suggestion is based on what would be best for Eire, the country remaining in the EU whilst the UK's suggestion is based on what is best for TMay's government which is kept afloat by the DUP.
    As with a lot of things to do with Brexit, 'I wouldn't start from here'.
    Agree - and of course NI voted to Remain. So given that the issue of the Irish border seems to be the issue here why not get the N Irish to vote on it. The DUP do not necessarily reflect the views of Northern Ireland.
    Arlene's bowler hat would be revolving at 10,000rpm at the mere thought of Option 1. The DUP would collapse the government immediately.
    No doubt. But if such a referendum were to find a way through and give, assuming a yes vote, the rest of the country a transition deal, might the government get the votes of another 10 MPs or more to get it through? No idea. But it seems to me a possible way through the impasse.

    And it would be hard for the DUP to argue against the principle of consent since that is the very basis of their argument against a united Ireland - only with consent.

    So why not this? With NI’s consent.
  • Options

    Yorkcity said:

    Can not argue with that seems a good idea to break the May log jam.

    Another bonus is David Davis is an ex council house lad from York who made good .
    Be nice for the city to be associated with a new Prime Minster.

    Harold Wilson as a boy lived in York for while.
    His father ran the poor house.

    My grandfather on my mother's side ,always said up to his death his dread of ever having to go there.
    Which thankfully was never the case.
    If the Tories attempt to change leader now the government will implode and the Brexit process will collapse with it. So all I can say is......go for it!
    The process has already collapsed!
  • Options
    Last night I tipped David Mundell at 50/1* as next out of the cabinet.

    He's now 5/1.

    *My stake was restricted to £10 but boosted to 60/1
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    TOPPING said:

    murali_s said:

    ToryJim said:

    Isn't DD somewhat responsible for the current clusterfuck? Had he been more engaged in his last job, better prepared or just slightly more intelligent. I think it would be kinder and quicker if the Conservative party just legally dissolved itself. DD is as thick as shit with none of the utility of it...
    To coin a phrase, DD is not the solution to the Brexit problem, he is the Brexit problem!

    A sharp tool like Barnier made him look what he is - a clueless, lazy but jovial dullard.
    Heard about your adventures yesterday. Well done you. The sad fact is that if you approach someone under those circumstances there is an expectation that it will not be taken well.
    Thanks TOPPING.

    I think we should call out bad behaviour whenever it arises. Always a fine line between between calling it out and turning the other cheek. But, if we don't stand up for what we believe in then what is the point!
  • Options
    murali_s said:

    TOPPING said:

    murali_s said:

    ToryJim said:

    Isn't DD somewhat responsible for the current clusterfuck? Had he been more engaged in his last job, better prepared or just slightly more intelligent. I think it would be kinder and quicker if the Conservative party just legally dissolved itself. DD is as thick as shit with none of the utility of it...
    To coin a phrase, DD is not the solution to the Brexit problem, he is the Brexit problem!

    A sharp tool like Barnier made him look what he is - a clueless, lazy but jovial dullard.
    Heard about your adventures yesterday. Well done you. The sad fact is that if you approach someone under those circumstances there is an expectation that it will not be taken well.
    Thanks TOPPING.

    I think we should call out bad behaviour whenever it arises. Always a fine line between between calling it out and turning the other cheek. But, if we don't stand up for what we believe in then what is the point!
    Well done sir.

    A few months ago at St Pancras this man in a rush barged into me and didn't apologise, I muttered something like 'I hope your cock falls off'

    Moments later, he slipped and fell and hurt himself rushing towards the tube station.

    Instant karma is great when it isn't aimed at you.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    I love the way the number of letters has always been about 40 for like a year now, always with 'a few more' going in. We should be up to about a hundred by now if those 'a few more going in' and 40 claim were actually true.
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sammy-wilson-hits-out-at-vile-varadkar-over-despicable-low-and-rotten-border-violence-claim-37437173.html

    All kicking off between DUP and Leo. The problem May has is do both the DUP and Leo have political space to back down. My view is they do not.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333
    murali_s said:

    TOPPING said:

    murali_s said:

    ToryJim said:

    Isn't DD somewhat responsible for the current clusterfuck? Had he been more engaged in his last job, better prepared or just slightly more intelligent. I think it would be kinder and quicker if the Conservative party just legally dissolved itself. DD is as thick as shit with none of the utility of it...
    To coin a phrase, DD is not the solution to the Brexit problem, he is the Brexit problem!

    A sharp tool like Barnier made him look what he is - a clueless, lazy but jovial dullard.
    Heard about your adventures yesterday. Well done you. The sad fact is that if you approach someone under those circumstances there is an expectation that it will not be taken well.
    Thanks TOPPING.

    I think we should call out bad behaviour whenever it arises. Always a fine line between between calling it out and turning the other cheek. But, if we don't stand up for what we believe in then what is the point!
    Agree.

    We are all so forthright on here there really is no excuse not to apply some of that heroism in real life!!
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    murali_s said:

    TOPPING said:

    murali_s said:

    ToryJim said:

    Isn't DD somewhat responsible for the current clusterfuck? Had he been more engaged in his last job, better prepared or just slightly more intelligent. I think it would be kinder and quicker if the Conservative party just legally dissolved itself. DD is as thick as shit with none of the utility of it...
    To coin a phrase, DD is not the solution to the Brexit problem, he is the Brexit problem!

    A sharp tool like Barnier made him look what he is - a clueless, lazy but jovial dullard.
    Heard about your adventures yesterday. Well done you. The sad fact is that if you approach someone under those circumstances there is an expectation that it will not be taken well.
    Thanks TOPPING.

    I think we should call out bad behaviour whenever it arises. Always a fine line between between calling it out and turning the other cheek. But, if we don't stand up for what we believe in then what is the point!
    Well done sir.

    A few months ago at St Pancras this man in a rush barged into me and didn't apologise, I muttered something like 'I hope your cock falls off'

    Moments later, he slipped and fell and hurt himself rushing towards the tube station.

    Instant karma is great when it isn't aimed at you.
    PM for you
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Off-topic:

    The BBC gets geographically confused:

    "The team, working on improvements to the A14 between Cambridge and Hunstanton, discovered a number of bones while digging near Fenstanton."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-45905645

    Methinks they mean Huntingdon ... ;)
  • Options

    Last night I tipped David Mundell at 50/1* as next out of the cabinet.

    He's now 5/1.

    *My stake was restricted to £10 but boosted to 60/1

    There's a bookie that lets you win £600?

    How much have you been losing???
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sammy-wilson-hits-out-at-vile-varadkar-over-despicable-low-and-rotten-border-violence-claim-37437173.html

    All kicking off between DUP and Leo. The problem May has is do both the DUP and Leo have political space to back down. My view is they do not.

    inevitable, Varadkar has just been winding up the North for the sake of it.
  • Options

    murali_s said:

    TOPPING said:

    murali_s said:

    ToryJim said:

    Isn't DD somewhat responsible for the current clusterfuck? Had he been more engaged in his last job, better prepared or just slightly more intelligent. I think it would be kinder and quicker if the Conservative party just legally dissolved itself. DD is as thick as shit with none of the utility of it...
    To coin a phrase, DD is not the solution to the Brexit problem, he is the Brexit problem!

    A sharp tool like Barnier made him look what he is - a clueless, lazy but jovial dullard.
    Heard about your adventures yesterday. Well done you. The sad fact is that if you approach someone under those circumstances there is an expectation that it will not be taken well.
    Thanks TOPPING.

    I think we should call out bad behaviour whenever it arises. Always a fine line between between calling it out and turning the other cheek. But, if we don't stand up for what we believe in then what is the point!
    Well done sir.

    A few months ago at St Pancras this man in a rush barged into me and didn't apologise, I muttered something like 'I hope your cock falls off'

    Moments later, he slipped and fell and hurt himself rushing towards the tube station.

    Instant karma is great when it isn't aimed at you.
    PM for you
    Cheers, replied.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2018
    It seems to have become a truth universally acknowledged that Theresa May triggered Article 50 without a clear plan and without laying out her negotiation strategy.

    Like many such universally-acknowledged truths, it's completely false. Article 50 was triggered on the 29th March 2017. She set out her negotiating strategy and plan on the 17th January 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    edited October 2018

    Last night I tipped David Mundell at 50/1* as next out of the cabinet.

    He's now 5/1.

    *My stake was restricted to £10 but boosted to 60/1

    There's a bookie that lets you win £600?

    How much have you been losing???
    Shadsy is good to me, considering I took £1,200 off him in 12 hours this April.

    Is one of the perks if you write regular pieces for the country's best political betting website.

    I suspect my account will be closed if Jeremy Hunt becomes next PM.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,172
    edited October 2018

    Last night I tipped David Mundell at 50/1* as next out of the cabinet.

    He's now 5/1.

    *My stake was restricted to £10 but boosted to 60/1

    Is it based on him leaving by choice or getting booted out for his weedy hot & cold resignation act & general uselessness?
  • Options

    Last night I tipped David Mundell at 50/1* as next out of the cabinet.

    He's now 5/1.

    *My stake was restricted to £10 but boosted to 60/1

    Is it based on him leaving by choice or getting booted out for his weedy hot & cold resignation act & general uselessness?
    The former.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1053031457898287107
  • Options
    What's astonishing with all this talk of DD as PM is that it shows how far Boris's stock has plummeted. Why and when did this happen? Only a few weeks ago there were queues a mile long to watch Boris address a fringe event.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Last night I tipped David Mundell at 50/1* as next out of the cabinet.

    He's now 5/1.

    *My stake was restricted to £10 but boosted to 60/1

    Is it based on him leaving by choice or getting booted out for his weedy hot & cold resignation act & general uselessness?
    Him and Roofy the pretendy McTories see a delay in exiting the CFP as fatal to their McElection chances for Holyrood.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    It seems to have become a truth universally acknowledged that Theresa May triggered Article 50 without a clear plan and without laying out her negotiation strategy.

    Like many such universally-acknowledged truths, it's completely false. Article 50 was triggered on the 29th March 2017. She set out her negotiating strategy and plan on the 17th January 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

    It is another truth universally acknowledged, which appears actually truthful, that when it concerns the EU, any speech on anything at any time delivered anywhere without pre-consultation with the EU is tantamount to having given no speech at all.
  • Options

    Last night I tipped David Mundell at 50/1* as next out of the cabinet.

    He's now 5/1.

    *My stake was restricted to £10 but boosted to 60/1

    Is it based on him leaving by choice or getting booted out for his weedy hot & cold resignation act & general uselessness?
    The former.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1053031457898287107
    Wish he'd make his mind up.

    'He told the BBC: “I haven’t threatened to resign.

    “What I’ve said is that I regard the integrity of the United Kingdom as absolutely essential in these negotiations.

    “We’re not going to prejudice the integrity of our United Kingdom and I’m very pleased – as you would see in yesterday’s statement – that the Prime Minister is absolutely behind that.”'

    https://tinyurl.com/y6wqc4bx
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited October 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    I love the way the number of letters has always been about 40 for like a year now, always with 'a few more' going in. We should be up to about a hundred by now if those 'a few more going in' and 40 claim were actually true.

    25 are probably from Nadine Dorries and the rest will like be purist MPs believing - really really really hard - that they can replace May with one of their own (but is he/she and which one...) who will put the 27 other nations in their place.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    What's astonishing with all this talk of DD as PM is that it shows how far Boris's stock has plummeted. Why and when did this happen? Only a few weeks ago there were queues a mile long to watch Boris address a fringe event.

    Boris's speech at conference was awful.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760

    Canada+ has been on offer since day one but May has rejected it. .

    Because she's the Prime Minister of the UK, not just GB.
    The EU offered Canada+ on day one, the proposal of the backstop only came months later after we had been messing around for months. Had we on day one said 'yes lets go for that' the backstop may have never even become an issue.
    1000% correct. The backstop was raised because they knew May was weak and could be pushed into locking the UK under EU control.
    Either that or the RoI lobbying operation in Brussels is quick off the mark and Varadkar thought he was being clever....
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    TOPPING said:

    It seems to have become a truth universally acknowledged that Theresa May triggered Article 50 without a clear plan and without laying out her negotiation strategy.

    Like many such universally-acknowledged truths, it's completely false. Article 50 was triggered on the 29th March 2017. She set out her negotiating strategy and plan on the 17th January 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

    It is another truth universally acknowledged, which appears actually truthful, that when it concerns the EU, any speech on anything at any time delivered anywhere without pre-consultation with the EU is tantamount to having given no speech at all.
    Well, the EU wouldn't negotiate before notification. I'm not clear what people think May should have done instead. (Other than come out for Remain, which is ultimately what many of them seem to think!)
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760

    HYUFD said:

    Paying for WTO terms is no legal requirement on any definition.

    No Deal will ultimately lead to EUref2 and 55% for Remain over 45% for No Deal in the polls despite your utterly contemptible wish to wreck the economy and union. Your fanaticism will consume and destroy the very Brexit you are pushing so hard for.

    If you think the 40 Tory MPs who hold the balance of power in Parliament who are ardently anti No Deal Brexit like Grieve, Rudd and Wollaston will accept your plans think again. Whatever the DUP does without their support the government could easily fall if No Deal and No EUref2. For them and indeed for most Remainers No Deal will be utterly unacceptable and they will fight and fight and fight again to reverse it.

    The only Brexit now that will not lead to a near civil war is SM plus CU and aim eventually for a FTA

    They don't have a choice. Remainers are in a checkmate position based on their own propaganda. The second a deal is reached and faced with a no deal alternative they have no choice but to ratify it.

    "No choice"?

    Heh, I have a feeling this opinion won't age well. Plus it assumes that there's a single person anywhere who has fallen for May's "there is no alternative" schtick.

    Rejecting May's botched deal doesn't mean Parliament wants No Deal, it means Parliament is rejecting May's botched deal. What happens afterwards is the interesting bit.
    What Parliament wants is immaterial, Parliament can want the moon on the stick or May's imaginary cake-and-eating-it being in and out of the Single Market simultaneously. It doesn't matter.

    What matters is what can be agreed with the EU. If we have reached an agreement with the EU the decision for Parliament is take it or leave it.
    Parliament will reject May's botched omnishambles. The key is what happens afterwards.
    i) The EU says: "OK, here's a better deal"

    ii) The EU says: "Pity. Full steam ahead with No Deal Preparations. See you on March 30th. Ireland - we tried, but you're now totally f*cked"

    Which do you think?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    TOPPING said:

    It seems to have become a truth universally acknowledged that Theresa May triggered Article 50 without a clear plan and without laying out her negotiation strategy.

    Like many such universally-acknowledged truths, it's completely false. Article 50 was triggered on the 29th March 2017. She set out her negotiating strategy and plan on the 17th January 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

    It is another truth universally acknowledged, which appears actually truthful, that when it concerns the EU, any speech on anything at any time delivered anywhere without pre-consultation with the EU is tantamount to having given no speech at all.
    Well, the EU wouldn't negotiate before notification. I'm not clear what people think May should have done instead. (Other than come out for Remain, which is ultimately what many of them seem to think!)
    Consult, not negotiate.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It seems to have become a truth universally acknowledged that Theresa May triggered Article 50 without a clear plan and without laying out her negotiation strategy.

    Like many such universally-acknowledged truths, it's completely false. Article 50 was triggered on the 29th March 2017. She set out her negotiating strategy and plan on the 17th January 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

    It is another truth universally acknowledged, which appears actually truthful, that when it concerns the EU, any speech on anything at any time delivered anywhere without pre-consultation with the EU is tantamount to having given no speech at all.
    Well, the EU wouldn't negotiate before notification. I'm not clear what people think May should have done instead. (Other than come out for Remain, which is ultimately what many of them seem to think!)
    Consult, not negotiate.
    You don't think that happened?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It seems to have become a truth universally acknowledged that Theresa May triggered Article 50 without a clear plan and without laying out her negotiation strategy.

    Like many such universally-acknowledged truths, it's completely false. Article 50 was triggered on the 29th March 2017. She set out her negotiating strategy and plan on the 17th January 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

    It is another truth universally acknowledged, which appears actually truthful, that when it concerns the EU, any speech on anything at any time delivered anywhere without pre-consultation with the EU is tantamount to having given no speech at all.
    Well, the EU wouldn't negotiate before notification. I'm not clear what people think May should have done instead. (Other than come out for Remain, which is ultimately what many of them seem to think!)
    Consult, not negotiate.
    You don't think that happened?
    Do you??
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited October 2018
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It seems to have become a truth universally acknowledged that Theresa May triggered Article 50 without a clear plan and without laying out her negotiation strategy.

    Like many such universally-acknowledged truths, it's completely false. Article 50 was triggered on the 29th March 2017. She set out her negotiating strategy and plan on the 17th January 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

    It is another truth universally acknowledged, which appears actually truthful, that when it concerns the EU, any speech on anything at any time delivered anywhere without pre-consultation with the EU is tantamount to having given no speech at all.
    Well, the EU wouldn't negotiate before notification. I'm not clear what people think May should have done instead. (Other than come out for Remain, which is ultimately what many of them seem to think!)
    Consult, not negotiate.
    You don't think that happened?
    Do you??
    Yes, clearly May consulted with other leaders, though (publicly at least) they just told her to notify. The nature of their private advice would be interesting to know - I think it's pretty clear they saw triggering Article 50 as a trap, but, as discussed, probably an unavoidable one.
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