Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bercow going in the summer opens the way for a Buckingham by-e

123457»

Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:




    This is quite correct. The assumptions about what Parliament will 'do' are a lot more complicated because ultimately you need a functioning Government which has to have a policy.

    The 'meaningful vote' can possibly be amended, but it is nothing but an advisory position. As we see on PB all day, people propose things in terms of deal outcomes that can't actually happen (eg HYUFD and his magic transition to SM+CU) so how Parliament does anything but have a general whinge is beyond me.

    Parliament can either reject or pass a deal presented to them. If the Government supported it, they could decide either to abandon Brexit or have another referendum, but this can't happen without Govt support because both require primary legislation. But the one thing they can't do is determine which deal outcome they might want.

    If none of these happen, no deal will happen. It doesn't need any form of approval.

    May will simply alloliament if those talks fail there will be over 4 months until Brexit day
    Honestly. Private members cannot magically put forward bills that will pass in record time. Private members cannot even put up bills unless they win the ballot. The only Brexit bills that will be considered are those that are proposed by the Government. Try again.
    May will ultimately put up a SM + CU backstop but only take it to the EU if Parliament votes it though which it likely will
    May wouldn’t last 5 minutes as leader after proposing that. And back benches can’t take offers to Europe!

    Your fantasy island politics about MPs taking the lead in negotiating fails to understand our constitution. And the Tory party.

    The UK may not last 5 minutes without that.

    Our constitution is based on Parliamentary sovereignty, Parliament will vote for a SM+CU backstop over No Deal
    Parliamentary Sovereignty doesn’t mean what you think it means

    It is the *Executive* through the Royal Prerogative that exercises the rights of the Crown; ie it is the Crown-in-Parliament (rather than the Crown) which is Sovereign
    Be as patronising as ever but if the Head of the Executive ie Theresa May lets Parliament decide whether or not to accept a backstop or No Deal that is what will happen
    If she proposes primary legislation yes, but she hasn’t suggested she will
    She has made clear she will let the Commons come to a view on what to do next which she and the Government will then implement and presumably put to a vote
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    Charles said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:




    This is quite correct. The assumptions about what Parliament will 'do' are a lot more complicated because ultimately you need a functioning Government which has to have a policy.

    The 'meaningful vote' can possibly be amended, but it is nothing but an advisory position. As we see on PB all day, people propose things in terms of deal outcomes that can't actually happen (eg HYUFD and his magic transition to SM+CU) so how Parliament does anything but have a general whinge is beyond me.

    Parliament can either reject or pass a deal presented to them. If the Government supported it, they could decide either to abandon Brexit or have another referendum, but this can't happen without Govt support because both require primary legislation. But the one thing they can't do is determine which deal outcome they might want.

    If none of these happen, no deal will happen. It doesn't need any form of approval.

    May will simply alloliament if those talks fail there will be over 4 months until Brexit day
    Honestly. Private members cannot magically put forward bills that will pass in record time. Private members cannot even put up bills unless they win the ballot. The only Brexit bills that will be considered are those that are proposed by the Government. Try again.
    May will ultimately put up a SM + CU backstop but only take it to the EU if Parliament votes it though which it likely will
    May wouldn’t last 5 minutes as leader after proposing that. And back benches can’t take offers to Europe!

    Your fantasy island politics about MPs taking the lead in negotiating fails to understand our constitution. And the Tory party.

    The UK may not last 5 minutes without that.

    Our constitution is based on Parliamentary sovereignty, Parliament will vote for a SM+CU backstop over No Deal
    Parliamentary Sovereignty doesn’t mean what you think it means

    It is the *Executive* through the Royal Prerogative that exercises the rights of the Crown; ie it is the Crown-in-Parliament (rather than the Crown) which is Sovereign
    This should be pinned to every thread.
    Er, why? So young fogeys like you can luxuriate over highfalutin monarchistic semantics?
    No - so that people don’t make important betting decisions based on wrong assumptions (eg that parliamentary sovereignty means the legislature can usurp the rights of the executive)
    The last executive who tried to usurp parliament wound up beheaded.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a story.

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammond, more than almost anyone except May, is responsible for the mess the Government is in now. He refused to plan for no deal and release the necessary funds, has constantly had the Treasury release bogus forecasts of doom and now he is lying about the bill. Should be fired but of course won't be; the end of his career cannot come soon enough.
    Hammond is not preparing for Nn the SM + CU
    I’m really impressed you know with such certainty what the PM intends to do

    I’m not sure she knows herself!
    Asked by Tory MP Heidi Allen what options other than a second referendum would be available if no deal is voted down in the chamber, Mrs May replied: “If it were the case that at the end of the negotiation process actually it was a no deal, then actually that would come back to this House and then we would see what position this House would take in the circumstances.”

    Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-that-mps-could-block-a-no-deal-brexit/

    That’s a fair and sensible answer by May. As Mike was saying earlier, she might be flawed but at least she is at least considering the country’s welfare, unlike extremists of Mortimer and Archer’s ilk.
    If it were left to Mortimer and Archer Scotland and NI would probably be gone by Christmas, along with half our manufacturing industry and the banks in the City but they would have the sweet smelling air of No Deal England!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammond, more than almost anyone except May, is responsible for the mess the Government is in now. He refused to plan for no deal and release the necessary funds, has constantly had the Treasury release bogus forecasts of doom and now he is lying about the bill. Should be fired but of course won't be; the end of his career cannot come soon enough.
    Hammond is not preparing for Nn the SM + CU
    I’m really impressed you know with such certainty what the PM intends to do

    I’m not sure she knows herself!
    Asked by Tory MP Heidi Allen what options other than a second referendum would be available if no deal is voted down in the chamber, Mrs May replied: “If it were the case that at the end of the negotiation process actually it was a no deal, then actually that would come back to this House and then we would see what position this House would take in the circumstances.”

    Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-that-mps-could-block-a-no-deal-brexit/

    That’s a fair and sensible answer by May. As Mike was saying earlier, she might be flawed but at least she is at least considering the country’s welfare, unlike extremists of Mortimer and Archer’s ilk.
    If it were left to Mortimer and Archer Scotland and NI would probably be gone by Christmas, along with half our manufacturing industry and the banks in the City but they would have the sweet smelling air of No Deal England!
    How many times to I need to say this. You’re presenting a false dichotomy. Not surrendering is not suggesting no deal. It is pushing for a better solution.

    Have you ever negotiated anything?

    I’m guessing not.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2018
    Foxy said:



    The last executive who tried to usurp parliament wound up beheaded.

    Now I'm no fan of Theresa May as I'm sure your aware but even I'd think that was a bit too much... ;)
  • HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Remember when your Brave Boudiccia used say "No Deal" was better than a bad deal?

    What a load of bullshit that turned out to be...

    Thank goodness so otherwise there could be No UK left
    Frankly I'm not too bothered if the UK exists or not but it won't exist if the backstop happens. If there is a border down the Irish Sea then we won't be a United Kingdom. NI will be formally and legally the other side of the border. Hence why not just the unionists in NI but even Remain-backing Ruth Davidson recognises it as a dreadful idea.

    This is not a good thing for unionism.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    So, is tomorrow finally the day when the Brexit dream dies?

    We can always hope so...
    You REALLY won't like what follows.....
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    image

    An infograph
  • HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a story.

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammond, more than almost anyone except May, is responsible for the mess the Government is in now. He refused to plan for no deal and release the necessary funds, has constantly had the Treasury release bogus forecasts of doom and now he is lying about the bill. Should be fired but of course won't be; the end of his career cannot come soon enough.
    Hammond is not preparing for Nn the SM + CU
    I’m really impressed you know with such certainty what the PM intends to do

    I’m not sure she knows herself!
    Asked by Tory MP Heidi Allen what options other than a second referendum would be available if no deal is voted down in the chamber, Mrs May replied: “If it were the case that at the end of the negotiation process actually it was a no deal, then actually that would come back to this House and then we would see what position this House would take in the circumstances.”

    Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-that-mps-could-block-a-no-deal-brexit/

    That’s a fair and sensible answer by May. As Mike was saying earlier, she might be flawed but at least she is at least considering the country’s welfare, unlike extremists of Mortimer and Archer’s ilk.
    If it were left to Mortimer and Archer Scotland and NI would probably be gone by Christmas, along with half our manufacturing industry and the banks in the City but they would have the sweet smelling air of No Deal England!
    Considering the unionists in Scotland (represented by Davidson) and NI agree with Mortimer and Archer and not Barnier it seems like you don't have the foggiest what you're talking about.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to interugh.
    Hammond is not preparing for Nn the SM + CU
    I’m really impressed you know with such certainty what the PM intends to do

    I’m not sure she knows herself!
    Asked by Tory MP Heidi Allen what options other than a second referendum would be available if no deal is voted down in the chamber, Mrs May replied: “If it were the case that at the end of the negotiation process actually it was a no deal, then actually that would come back to this House and then we would see what position this House would take in the circumstances.”

    Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-that-mps-could-block-a-no-deal-brexit/

    That’s a fair and sensible answer by May. As Mike was saying earlier, she might be flawed but at least she is at least considering the country’s welfare, unlike extremists of Mortimer and Archer’s ilk.
    If it were left to Mortimer and Archer Scotland and NI would probably be gone by Christmas, along with half our manufacturing industry and the banks in the City but they would have the sweet smelling air of No Deal England!
    How many times to I need to say this. You’re presenting a false dichotomy. Not surrendering is not suggesting no deal. It is pushing for a better solution.

    Have you ever negotiated anything?

    I’m guessing not.
    Of course it is suggesting No Deal as if we do not have a deal by the end of November there will not be enough time to get everything approved by Brexit day next March unless Parliament backs down and accepts the SM + CU backstop
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Remember when your Brave Boudiccia used say "No Deal" was better than a bad deal?

    What a load of bullshit that turned out to be...

    Thank goodness so otherwise there could be No UK left
    Frankly I'm not too bothered if the UK exists or not but it won't exist if the backstop happens. If there is a border down the Irish Sea then we won't be a United Kingdom. NI will be formally and legally the other side of the border. Hence why not just the unionists in NI but even Remain-backing Ruth Davidson recognises it as a dreadful idea.

    This is not a good thing for unionism.
    If NI does not remain in the SM and CU and there is No Deal, NI will leave the UK, quite possibly Scotland too and there will be no Union left
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Charles said:

    No - so that people don’t make important betting decisions based on wrong assumptions (eg that parliamentary sovereignty means the legislature can usurp the rights of the executive)

    For the legislature to usurp the rights of the executive, they would have to replace the executive. There would need to be a grouping of MPs who parliament had confidence in, and who produced their own Prime Minister.

    That is an extremely unlikely outcome. The only situation I could see it happening in would be if Mrs May resigned, and there were a raft of desertions from the Conservative Party.

    If Mrs May thinks that a deal is essential, and she cannot get one through the House of Commons, then I think she would ask for an extension, and then resign. Although No Deal is the default outcome, it effectively requires whoever is the PM not to ask for an extension.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2018
    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    SeanT said:

    timmo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Khashoggi butchered alive and surgically dismembered before being injected with an unknown drug and falling silent. If the Saudis are behind this we should cut ties as should the US
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6281303/Turkish-investigators-say-looking-toxic-materials-Khashoggi-murder-probe.html

    Could not agree more..this alone could lead to me leaving the Tory party if we do not decisevely act against this barbaric regieme.
    The reason the US, UK, France, NATO, Germany, everyone, kowtows to the truly hideous, grotesque, barbaric Saudi regime (and sell them arms etc) is not because we approve of it - and it's zip to do with the oil - but because we know whatever would replace the Saudi autocracy would almost certainly be WORSE.

    It would be Wahhabism, weaponised, ISIS with Saudi oil money. It would be a jihadi superpower with missiles aimed at us. Do we want that? No. So we tolerate the demons, knowing the Devil would take over, should they fall.

    If you have a better plan, do tell.
    I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    GIN1138 said:

    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
    And barely out before an election in June 2022.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    GIN1138 said:

    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
    Only one extra year? you're an optomist...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis on necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    LOL.

    Eurasia has always been at war with Eastasia
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a story.

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammgh.
    Hammond is not preparing for Nn the SM + CU
    I’m really impressed you know with such certainty what the PM intends to do

    I’m not sure she knows herself!
    Asked by Tes.”

    Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-that-mps-could-block-a-no-deal-brexit/

    That’s a flk.
    If it were left to Mortimer anal England!
    Considering the unionists in Scotland (represented by Davidson) and NI agree with Mortimer and Archer and not Barnier it seems like you don't have the foggiest what you're talking about.
    52% of Scots would vote for independence if No Deal Brexit
    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/10/stupefying-survation-survey-suggests.html

    57% of Northern Irish voters want 'Special Status' for NI within the single market and customs union, 47.9% would back joining the Republic in the event of a hard Brexit, 45.4% to stay in the UK

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-support-join-irish-republic-eu-hard-brexit-poll-lucidtalk-a8098531.html
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749

    SeanT said:

    timmo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Khashoggi butchered alive and surgically dismembered before being injected with an unknown drug and falling silent. If the Saudis are behind this we should cut ties as should the US
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6281303/Turkish-investigators-say-looking-toxic-materials-Khashoggi-murder-probe.html

    Could not agree more..this alone could lead to me leaving the Tory party if we do not decisevely act against this barbaric regieme.
    The reason the US, UK, France, NATO, Germany, everyone, kowtows to the truly hideous, grotesque, barbaric Saudi regime (and sell them arms etc) is not because we approve of it - and it's zip to do with the oil - but because we know whatever would replace the Saudi autocracy would almost certainly be WORSE.

    It would be Wahhabism, weaponised, ISIS with Saudi oil money. It would be a jihadi superpower with missiles aimed at us. Do we want that? No. So we tolerate the demons, knowing the Devil would take over, should they fall.

    If you have a better plan, do tell.
    I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
    My thought exactly! issue the orders...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    So, is tomorrow finally the day when the Brexit dream dies?

    We can always hope so...
    You REALLY won't like what follows.....
    Frankly - I don't give a d*mn. I would prefer the UK to stay in, but I and my family are immune to Brexit.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Remember when your Brave Boudiccia used say "No Deal" was better than a bad deal?

    What a load of bullshit that turned out to be...

    Thank goodness so otherwise there could be No UK left
    Frankly I'm not too bothered if the UK exists or not but it won't exist if the backstop happens. If there is a border down the Irish Sea then we won't be a United Kingdom. NI will be formally and legally the other side of the border. Hence why not just the unionists in NI but even Remain-backing Ruth Davidson recognises it as a dreadful idea.

    This is not a good thing for unionism.
    If NI does not remain in the SM and CU and there is No Deal, NI will leave the UK, quite possibly Scotland too and there will be no Union left
    Bullshit! You don't know that, you're just parroting the most recent opinion poll that blows in the wind just like you always do.

    What we do know is that REAL unionists that have worked hard for unionism and fought in elections for it oppose your beloved nonsense. Who should we listen to as to whether Scotland and NI want this . . . you and whatever random poll you're parroting this week, or lifelong unionists who are very different people except being unionists Arlene Foster and Ruth Davidson?

    I'm going to put my faith in Davidson over your poll of the week.
  • So, is tomorrow finally the day when the Brexit dream dies?

    We can always hope so...
    You REALLY won't like what follows.....
    Frankly - I don't give a d*mn.
    Kind of how I feel when people are saying no deal will be dreadful.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited October 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    No need to backpeddle as we have May's quote in her own words she will let Parliament decide rather than waltz off to No Deal and WTO terms and a general election whistling 'rule Britannia' and 'There will always be an England' on the way!
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited October 2018

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:



    Cameron is a total and abject failure. His ego led him to be negligent. To blame Labour for his own error is absurd. An error, let us never forget, devised solely to keep his right wing on board in 2015.


    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21

    If he's a 'total and abject failure' then so are all the sane Labour figures who couldn't even beat Corbyn of all people, and who therefore ensured that the Labour pro-Remain vote went AWOL. I really don't think you can blame Cameron either for that, or for not envisaging it would happen when he committed to the referendum - not that he had any choice on that, let's not forget.

    Meanwhile, in the actual role of PM he was without doubt the best for half a century, bar the very special case of Maggie.
    His legacy is sheer poison. It is impossible to hold him with more contempt. As Paxman said, the worst PM since Lord North. Yes, I blame him for a referendum designed to bolster his right wing. He put himself and party before country. Unforgivable.
    It wasn't a mistake that came out of the blue either. He made a strategic decision to appease the extreme Eurosceptics throughout his leadership, and they ended up consuming him.
    More poppycock. He stalled for a decade.
    Why did the Conservatives leave the EPP?
    Poland's largest party, Law & Justice is also in the ACRE grouping, alongside the Tories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_of_Conservatives_and_Reformists_in_Europe
    The Sweden Democrats also joined in July after departing the UKIP/MS5 grouping. They even have a party called the pro Romania party as members - surely all Romanian parties are pro Romania? And For Fatherland and Freedom from Latvia are also members. 'Reload Bulgaria' are also members of the group - they want to restore the Bulgarian monarchy - as are 'Ordinary people' from Slovakia and a party which represents Poles in Lithuania.

    With friends like those who needs the DUP! The DUP MEP is non attached so doesn't sit with the Tories.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220


    Bullshit! You don't know that, you're just parroting the most recent opinion poll that blows in the wind just like you always do.
    What we do know is that REAL unionists that have worked hard for unionism and fought in elections for it oppose your beloved nonsense. Who should we listen to as to whether Scotland and NI want this . . . you and whatever random poll you're parroting this week, or lifelong unionists who are very different people except being unionists Arlene Foster and Ruth Davidson?

    I'm going to put my faith in Davidson over your poll of the week.

    Davidson has 'triple locked' the DUP's insistence of no regulatory border (Beyond what already exists) in the Irish sea.
    This is the one red line that I'm very confident May won't budge on.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a story.

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammgh.
    Hammond is not preparing for Nn the SM + CU
    I’m really impressed you know with such certainty what the PM intends to do

    I’m not sure she knows herself!
    Asked by Tes.”

    Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-that-mps-could-block-a-no-deal-brexit/

    That’s a flk.
    If it were left to Mortimer anal England!
    Considering the unionists in Scotland (represented by Davidson) and NI agree with Mortimer and Archer and not Barnier it seems like you don't have the foggiest what you're talking about.
    52% of Scots would vote for independence if No Deal Brexit
    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/10/stupefying-survation-survey-suggests.html

    57% of Northern Irish voters want 'Special Status' for NI within the single market and customs union, 47.9% would back joining the Republic in the event of a hard Brexit, 45.4% to stay in the UK

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-support-join-irish-republic-eu-hard-brexit-poll-lucidtalk-a8098531.html
    Oh gee some random polls. Never saw that coming (!)

    Well clearly a poll is never wrong and that's far more meaningful the experience Ruth Davidson has in leading unionism in Scotland (!)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2018
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    No need to backpeddle as we have May's quote in her own words she will let Parliament decide rather than waltz off to No Deal and WTO terms and a general election whistling 'rule Britannia' and 'There will always be an England' on the way!
    Let me give you a little bit of advice, as someone who was sucked in to voting for Theresa May in 2017 because I believed all her "Brexit Means Brexit" and "no deal is better than a bad deal" bullshit...

    What this woman says is literally worthless.... I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and if you do... Well more fool you. ;)
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    GIN1138 said:

    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
    I cant wait, another 12 months of PB squabbling......
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a story.

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammgh.
    Hammond is not preparing for Nn the SM + CU
    I’m really impressed you know with such certainty what the PM intends to do

    I’m not sure she knows herself!
    Asked by Tes.”

    Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-that-mps-could-block-a-no-deal-brexit/

    That’s a flk.
    If it were left to Mortimer anal England!
    Considering the unionists in Scotland (represented by Davidson) and NI agree with Mortimer and Archer and not Barnier it seems like you don't have the foggiest what you're talking about.
    52% of Scots would vote for independence if No Deal Brexit
    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/10/stupefying-survation-survey-suggests.html

    57% of Northern Irish voters want 'Special Status' for NI within the single market and customs union, 47.9% would back joining the Republic in the event of a hard Brexit, 45.4% to stay in the UK

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-support-join-irish-republic-eu-hard-brexit-poll-lucidtalk-a8098531.html
    Oh gee some random polls. Never saw that coming (!)

    Well clearly a poll is never wrong and that's far more meaningful the experience Ruth Davidson has in leading unionism in Scotland (!)
    Yes well unlike you I am not prepared to put my finger in my ears and ignore the evidence while pressing ahead with a crash out No Deal Brexit even most English voters do not support
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    No need to backpeddle as we have May's quote in her own words she will let Parliament decide rather than waltz off to No Deal and WTO terms and a general election whistling 'rule Britannia' and 'There will always be an England' on the way!
    Let me give you a little bit of advice, as someone who was sucked in to voting for Theresa May in 2017 because I believed all her "Brexit Means Brexit" and "no deal is better than a bad deal" bullshit...

    What this woman says is literally worthless.... I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and if you do... Well more fool you. ;)
    May was and still is a Remainer, that is all you really need to know.

    If you want crash out No Deal you will need to replace her as PM with a hard Brexiteer and probably win a majority for No Deal at a general election
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    So, is tomorrow finally the day when the Brexit dream dies?

    We can always hope so...
    You REALLY won't like what follows.....
    Frankly - I don't give a d*mn. I would prefer the UK to stay in, but I and my family are immune to Brexit.
    This your much-touted escape to Ireland? Good luck with that....you'll be the only people joining not leaving the place.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    GIN1138 said:

    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
    And barely out before an election in June 2022.....
    Next election is due on May 5th 2022!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2018
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    No need to backpeddle as we have May's quote in her own words she will let Parliament decide rather than waltz off to No Deal and WTO terms and a general election whistling 'rule Britannia' and 'There will always be an England' on the way!
    Let me give you a little bit of advice, as someone who was sucked in to voting for Theresa May in 2017 because I believed all her "Brexit Means Brexit" and "no deal is better than a bad deal" bullshit...

    What this woman says is literally worthless.... I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and if you do... Well more fool you. ;)
    May was and still is a Remainer, that is all you really need to know.

    Well thanks for confirming her entire 2017 election campaign was a pack of lies.

    That's why I'm voting for Corbyn next time. Your leader and your party has taken me for a fool!

    You'll not get that chance again.
  • HYUFD said:

    Yes well unlike you I am not prepared to put my finger in my ears and ignore the evidence while pressing ahead with a crash out No Deal Brexit even most English voters do not support

    You are the one ignoring the evidence. If Barnier's backstop is so good for unionism please explain why Ruth Davidson opposes it? Not quote some random nonsense poll, why would she oppose it?
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She could hold one Barcelona style - it would of course have no legal status.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    No need to backpeddle as we have May's quote in her own words she will let Parliament decide rather than waltz off to No Deal and WTO terms and a general election whistling 'rule Britannia' and 'There will always be an England' on the way!
    Let me give you a little bit of advice, as someone who was sucked in to voting for Theresa May in 2017 because I believed all her "Brexit Means Brexit" and "no deal is better than a bad deal" bullshit...

    What this woman says is literally worthless.... I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and if you do... Well more fool you. ;)
    May was and still is a Remainer, that is all you really need to know.

    Well thanks for confirming her entire 2017 election campaign was a pack of lies.

    That's why I'm voting for Corbyn next time. Your leader and your party has taken me for a fool!

    You'll not get that chance again.
    I would rather have Corbyn and the UK than no UK at all with No Deal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    brendan16 said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She could hold one Barcelona style - it would of course have no legal status.
    Absolutely - and would be widely ignored! I doubt that such a move would help her cause at all. After the trauma of Brexit the last thing most Scots would welcome is a further period of constitutional wrangling over Independence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    Yes well unlike you I am not prepared to put my finger in my ears and ignore the evidence while pressing ahead with a crash out No Deal Brexit even most English voters do not support

    You are the one ignoring the evidence. If Barnier's backstop is so good for unionism please explain why Ruth Davidson opposes it? Not quote some random nonsense poll, why would she oppose it?
    She wants Scotland to leave on the same terms, which effectively it will be as the UK will still be in the SM and CU the day after Brexit when we enter the transition period
  • justin124 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
    And barely out before an election in June 2022.....
    Next election is due on May 5th 2022!
    Is May in the FTPA? June would have been the due date under the Septennial Act.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    justin124 said:

    brendan16 said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She could hold one Barcelona style - it would of course have no legal status.
    Absolutely - and would be widely ignored! I doubt that such a move would help her cause at all. After the trauma of Brexit the last thing most Scots would welcome is a further period of constitutional wrangling over Independence.
    If the alternative is staying in a No Deal Brexit UK?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited October 2018

    justin124 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
    And barely out before an election in June 2022.....
    Next election is due on May 5th 2022!
    Is May in the FTPA? June would have been the due date under the Septennial Act.
    The FTPA is still in force.
    Actually under pre-FTPA rules the election would have been due in early July 2022!
  • justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    That didn't even work in Spain it's certainly not going to work in the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited October 2018
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic majority counties in the UK
  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ye gods an extra year of going round and round in circles...
    And barely out before an election in June 2022.....
    Next election is due on May 5th 2022!
    Is May in the FTPA? June would have been the due date under the Septennial Act.
    The FTPA is still in force.
    I know that. I asked if May (the month) is specified in the FPTA.

    Looking at yes it is. But I was wrong under the Septennial Act theoretically the next election could have been July 2022.
  • HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Then why is Davidson opposing the backstop?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
  • It seems pretty logical that if you want to know whether something is good for the union, you should see who's backing it and who's opposing it.

    Barnier is opposed by Davidson and Foster, but not Sturgeon or Sinn Fein. Funny that.

    If HYUFD was at all in the real world with his projections then Sturgeon would be hoping the talks fail and Davidson would be desperate for the backstop. Reality is quite different.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Then why is Davidson opposing the backstop?
    She only opposes the backstop if NI leaves the UK on different terms to Scotland, England and Wales which in effect it would not as GB will stay in the SM and CU after Brexit which will be followed by the transition period
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    No need to backpeddle as we have May's quote in her own words she will let Parliament decide rather than waltz off to No Deal and WTO terms and a general election whistling 'rule Britannia' and 'There will always be an England' on the way!
    Let me give you a little bit of advice, as someone who was sucked in to voting for Theresa May in 2017 because I believed all her "Brexit Means Brexit" and "no deal is better than a bad deal" bullshit...

    What this woman says is literally worthless.... I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and if you do... Well more fool you. ;)
    Amen.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited October 2018

    It seems pretty logical that if you want to know whether something is good for the union, you should see who's backing it and who's opposing it.

    Barnier is opposed by Davidson and Foster, but not Sturgeon or Sinn Fein. Funny that.

    If HYUFD was at all in the real world with his projections then Sturgeon would be hoping the talks fail and Davidson would be desperate for the backstop. Reality is quite different.

    Sturgeon is quite clear she is willing to compromise and keep Scotland outside the EU but in the SM and CU despite Scotland voting Remain. Anything else and it is within her rights to pass an indyref2 referendum through Holyrood whether Westminster agrees or not.

    As I said if we want to be sure of keeping Scotland in the UK if no Deal we will have to send the Army in and the same applies to Northern Ireland. The peace process will of course be dead effectively in all but name if a hard border in Ireland
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited October 2018
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    edited October 2018
    This Brexit is beginning to resemble the day 20 years ago when I said Im bored with chess...go looks interesting .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    The polling is clear, if No Deal Brexit a majority of the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the UK.

    Never mind Davidson Unionism the British government would have to go full, hard Rajoy Unionism or Assad and send the army and riot police to Scotland and Northern Ireland and impose British rule using military force if necessary
  • HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Then why is Davidson opposing the backstop?
    Because the SCon surge is based on ultra Unionists, Loyalists and ex Kippers. Baking shows and pish about progressive politics for the London luvvies, solidarity with the DUP for the Huns.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    edited October 2018
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    The polling is clear, if No Deal Brexit a majority of the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the UK.

    Never mind Davidson Unionism the British government would have to go full, hard Rajoy Unionism or Assad and send the army and riot police to Scotland and Northern Ireland and impose British rule using military force if necessary
    Can we exclude soft Himmler?

    Just asking..
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    The polling is clear, if No Deal Brexit a majority of the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the UK.

    There is an inherent contradiction there. Polling is hardly 'clear' if it merely suggests 'could'. Hypothetical polls are pretty meaningless anyway. However, I do believe that many of those who have switched to the SNP in recent years would cease to support it were it to give the impression of leading the country down the path of civil & political violence - indeed potential civil war. Few there would wish to even risk repeating the experience of Northern Ireland.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Then why is Davidson opposing the backstop?
    Because the SCon surge is based on ultra Unionists, Loyalists and ex Kippers. Baking shows and pish about progressive politics for the London luvvies, solidarity with the DUP for the Huns.
    But what about the soft Himmlers? Are they still with the LibDems?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,141
    shiney2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Then why is Davidson opposing the backstop?
    Because the SCon surge is based on ultra Unionists, Loyalists and ex Kippers. Baking shows and pish about progressive politics for the London luvvies, solidarity with the DUP for the Huns.
    But what about the soft Himmlers? Are they still with the LibDems?
    You have to boil them for at least three minutes, otherwise they go all runny.

    Pause.

    The Himmlers, not the Lib Dems.

    Obviously.

    Um.

    Ah, my coat... :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    edited October 2018
    Good to see the traditional friendship between Saudi Arabia and the US continuing.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/khashoggi-trump-pompeo-saudi-arabia-cover-up.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the traditional friendship between Saudi Arabia and the US continuing.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/khashoggi-trump-pompeo-saudi-arabia-cover-up.html

    I usually find Slate too liberal to bear. But it's hard not to disagree with the analysis.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Talking of byelections........is it possible McKinlay in South Thanet could be forced out?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well we would Remain if No Deal anyway

    No we won't. We automatically exit on 29 March 2019.

    It will take a deal for us to remain.
    Only 40 to 45% of voters back No Deal, No Deal ends the 52% Brexit majority in the UK. The only way to save Brexit then would be SM plus CU otherwise it will be EUref2 before March and Remain or a Corbyn minority government after a general election and SM and CU or EUref2 anyway (Soubry, Grieve etc will of course vote with the opposition for a general election if No Deal if the government does not allow EUref2)
    Irrelevant.

    There isn't a referendum booked and the sands of time mean we will be gone before the next election. What the polls say is irrelevant unless Parliament acts and Parliament can't really act unilaterally without bringing the government down - it can block what the government wants to do but can't initiate a deal by itself.
    May has said she will pass the Brexit decision to Parliament if no agreement with the EU in November
    She hasn’t said that, no matter how many times you repeat it. She said the government will return to the house to identify the way ahead. The government aren’t going to sit on their hands and say “ok chaps, what’s the plan?”
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    The 'meaningful vote' can possibly be amended, but it is nothing but an advisory position. As we see on PB all day, people propose things in terms of deal outcomes that can't actually happen (eg HYUFD and his magic transition to SM+CU) so how Parliament does anything but have a general whinge is beyond me.

    Parliament can either reject or pass a deal presented to them. If the Government supported it, they could decide either to abandon Brexit or have another referendum, but this can't happen without Govt support because both require primary legislation. But the one thing they can't do is determine which deal outcome they might want.

    If none of these happen, no deal will happen. It doesn't need any form of approval.

    May will simply alloliament if those talks fail there will be over 4 months until Brexit day
    Honestly. Private members cannot magically put forward bills that will pass in record time. Private members cannot even put up bills unless they win the ballot. The only Brexit bills that will be considered are those that are proposed by the Government. Try again.
    May will ultimately put up a SM + CU backstop but only take it to the EU if Parliament votes it though which it likely will
    May wouldn’t last 5 minutes as leader after proposing that. And back benches can’t take offers to Europe!

    Your fantasy island politics about MPs taking the lead in negotiating fails to understand our constitution. And the Tory party.

    The UK may not last 5 minutes without that.

    Our constitution is based on Parliamentary sovereignty, Parliament will vote for a SM+CU backstop over No Deal
    Parliamentary Sovereignty doesn’t mean what you think it means

    It is the *Executive* through the Royal Prerogative that exercises the rights of the Crown; ie it is the Crown-in-Parliament (rather than the Crown) which is Sovereign
    This should be pinned to every thread.
    Er, why? So young fogeys like you can luxuriate over highfalutin monarchistic semantics?
    Supreme executive power springs from a mandate from the masses... as Dennis might say!

    https://youtu.be/3vJxrf1r0ak

    Charles is an aristocrat. He seems to think that crap actually matters.
    I’m not an aristocrat - just from a family that owns a successful medium sized business

    And process and governance do matter. Without it you have chaos and injustice
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    The 'meaningful vote' can possibly be amended, but it is nothing but an advisory position. As we see on PB all day, people propose things in terms of deal outcomes that can't actually happen (eg HYUFD and his magic transition to SM+CU) so how Parliament does anything but have a general whinge is beyond me.

    Parliament can either reject or pass a deal presented to them. If the Government supported it, they could decide either to abandon Brexit or have another referendum, but this can't happen without Govt support because both require primary legislation. But the one thing they can't do is determine which deal outcome they might want.

    If none of these happen, no deal will happen. It doesn't need any form of approval.

    May will simply alloliament if those talks fail there will be over 4 months until Brexit day
    Honestly. Private members cannot magically put forward bills that will pass in record time. Private members cannot even put up bills unless they win the ballot. The only Brexit bills that will be considered are those that are proposed by the Government. Try again.
    May will ultimately put up a SM + CU backstop but only take it to the EU if Parliament votes it though which it likely will
    May wouldn’t last 5 minutes as leader after proposing that. And back benches can’t take offers to Europe!

    Your fantasy island politics about MPs taking the lead in negotiating fails to understand our constitution. And the Tory party.

    The UK may not last 5 minutes without that.

    Our constitution is based on Parliamentary sovereignty, Parliament will vote for a SM+CU backstop over No Deal
    Parliamentary Sovereignty doesn’t mean what you think it means

    It is the *Executive* through the Royal Prerogative that exercises the rights of the Crown; ie it is the Crown-in-Parliament (rather than the Crown) which is Sovereign
    Be as patronising as ever but if the Head of the Executive ie Theresa May lets Parliament decide whether or not to accept a backstop or No Deal that is what will happen
    If she proposes primary legislation yes, but she hasn’t suggested she will
    She has made clear she will let the Commons come to a view on what to do next which she and the Government will then implement and presumably put to a vote
    “Presumably” doing a lot of work there
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:




    The 'meaningful vote' can possibly be amended, but it is nothing but an advisory position. As we see on PB all day, people propose things in terms of deal outcomes that can't actually happen (eg HYUFD and his magic transition to SM+CU) so how Parliament does anything but have a general whinge is beyond me.

    Parliament can either reject or pass a deal presented to them. If the Government supported it, they could decide either to abandon Brexit or have another referendum, but this can't happen without Govt support because both require primary legislation. But the one thing they can't do is determine which deal outcome they might want.

    If none of these happen, no deal will happen. It doesn't need any form of approval.

    May will simply alloliament if those talks fail there will be over 4 months until Brexit day
    Honestly. Private members cannot magically put forward bills that will pass in record time. Private members cannot even put up bills unless they win the ballot. The only Brexit bills that will be considered are those that are proposed by the Government. Try again.
    May will ultimately put up a SM + CU backstop but only take it to the EU if Parliament votes it though which it likely will
    May wouldn’t last 5 minutes as leader after proposing that. And back benches can’t take offers to Europe!

    Your fantasy island politics about MPs taking the lead in negotiating fails to understand our constitution. And the Tory party.

    The UK may not last 5 minutes without that.

    Our constitution is based on Parliamentary sovereignty, Parliament will vote for a SM+CU backstop over No Deal
    Parliamentary Sovereignty doesn’t mean what you think it means

    It is the *Executive* through the Royal Prerogative that exercises the rights of the Crown; ie it is the Crown-in-Parliament (rather than the Crown) which is Sovereign
    This should be pinned to every thread.
    Er, why? So young fogeys like you can luxuriate over highfalutin monarchistic semantics?
    No - so that people don’t make important betting decisions based on wrong assumptions (eg that parliamentary sovereignty means the legislature can usurp the rights of the executive)
    The last executive who tried to usurp parliament wound up beheaded.
    Which is why the executive power rests with the person who can control a majority of the House of Commons
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May ultimately walks into Parliament and declares that "No Deal" is possible with the EU because of their intransigence and so she's recommending to move to WTO on 29th March and will fight a general election on that basis if necessary I can't WAIT to see how HYUFD would back peddle to that position after these past few days.

    At least BigG has left himself just enough wiggle room lol... :D

    No need to backpeddle as we have May's quote in her own words she will let Parliament decide rather than waltz off to No Deal and WTO terms and a general election whistling 'rule Britannia' and 'There will always be an England' on the way!
    It was a form of words for goodness sake!

    Do you really think May is going to turn up in Westminster and say “I haven’t the foggiest what to do next, it’s up to you”?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Scotland is not going to take the UDI route

    Don’t be ridiculous
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Little hope or expectation for a Brexit breakthrough as Mrs May heads to Brussels

    The PM will address the EU27 just ahead of their pre-summit dinner, but the Irish border question remains the stumbling block."

    https://news.sky.com/story/little-hope-or-expectation-for-a-brexit-breakthrough-as-mrs-may-heads-to-brussels-11527719
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    HYUFD was more entertaining when they were Boris #1 Fan. Someone should cut the supply of hysteria pills.

    While the SNP's 'USP' is "independence", they also get quite a few votes for "competence" (unlikely though that may seem, but again, given the competition from SLAB, not a high hurdle) and talk of UDI would drive a coach and horses through that. Sturgeon is no fool and knows no "UDI Scotland" would get into the EU in her lifetime - there would be a queue of countries lining up to veto the application. What she needs is an unambiguous majority in Holyrood won on the back of a SindyRef2 manifesto, then it would be difficult to see Westminster declining another "once in a generation" (sic) referendum.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Talking of byelections........is it possible McKinlay in South Thanet could be forced out?

    I suppose there is. There's also the possibility of one in Peterborough.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    The polling is clear, if No Deal Brexit a majority of the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the UK.

    Never mind Davidson Unionism the British government would have to go full, hard Rajoy Unionism or Assad and send the army and riot police to Scotland and Northern Ireland and impose British rule using military force if necessary
    You are drunk, trolling or an idiot

    Or possibly all three.

    The U.K. is not going to send the army into Scotland. An independence referendum without Westminister’s Approval has no constitutional standing.

    And no, there will not be an Assad style civil war
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Charles said:



    “Presumably” doing a lot of work there

    What the Prime Minister actually said:

    My hon. Friend’s question involves a number of assumptions. We are working to get a good deal with the European Union. If, at the end of the negotiation process, both sides agreed that no deal was there, that would actually come back to this House, and then we would see what position the House would take in the circumstances of the time.

    http://bit.ly/2P6agrW

    Mr Glenn reads that as 'EURef2'
    Mr Archer reads that as 'No Deal Brexit'
    HYUFD reads that as 'CU, SM or its tanks on Princes Street and troops in Derry'*

    *If I'm keeping up
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    viewcode said:

    shiney2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Then why is Davidson opposing the backstop?
    Because the SCon surge is based on ultra Unionists, Loyalists and ex Kippers. Baking shows and pish about progressive politics for the London luvvies, solidarity with the DUP for the Huns.
    But what about the soft Himmlers? Are they still with the LibDems?
    You have to boil them for at least three minutes, otherwise they go all runny.

    Pause.

    The Himmlers, not the Lib Dems.

    Obviously.

    Um.

    Ah, my coat... :)
    Any fule no you have to boil a Lib Dem for at least 15 minutes to stop them being runny...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Reposting as its an interesting argument from a good source:

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1052286299913248768
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Curiously enough, Trump isn't on the list, and from the UK only the Conservatives (at number 2) and the DCMS Cttee make the list:

    https://www.rt.com/news/441417-top-10-russophobes-2018/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    This thread is now OLD
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    The polling is clear, if No Deal Brexit a majority of the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the UK.

    Never mind Davidson Unionism the British government would have to go full, hard Rajoy Unionism or Assad and send the army and riot police to Scotland and Northern Ireland and impose British rule using military force if necessary
    You are drunk, trolling or an idiot

    Or possibly all three.

    The U.K. is not going to send the army into Scotland. An independence referendum without Westminister’s Approval has no constitutional standing.

    And no, there will not be an Assad style civil war
    I am reasonably confident that he is not drunk nor trolling.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    HYUFD said:

    Khashoggi butchered alive and surgically dismembered before being injected with an unknown drug and falling silent. If the Saudis are behind this we should cut ties as should the US
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6281303/Turkish-investigators-say-looking-toxic-materials-Khashoggi-murder-probe.html

    May won't do a fucking thing. The Joffrey Baratheon of the Empty Quarter is still holding the prospect of a 48 jet order for Typhoons over her.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    The polling is clear, if No Deal Brexit a majority of the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the UK.

    Never mind Davidson Unionism the British government would have to go full, hard Rajoy Unionism or Assad and send the army and riot police to Scotland and Northern Ireland and impose British rule using military force if necessary
    You are drunk, trolling or an idiot

    Or possibly all three.

    The U.K. is not going to send the army into Scotland. An independence referendum without Westminister’s Approval has no constitutional standing.

    And no, there will not be an Assad style civil war
    If you think a majority of Scots and Northern Irish Catholics will meekly accept a No Deal, Crash Out Brexit then think again
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    Regardless of what happens re-Brexit , there is no serious possibility of another Independence referendum in Scotland during this Parliament. Theresa May has ruled it out , Davidson supports her - as do I! - and I am pretty sure that Sturgeon knows it too.

    Oh no, if there is No Deal Sturgeon will call a vote for indyref2 at Holyrood next year no question
    She might ask for one - but will be told to 'Go away'.
    She will hold one anyway and if Yes wins go to UDI if necessary
    Sturgeon would not be so stupid as to do anything as inflammatory as that.
    She would, her base would demand it.

    If we go to No Deal we may have to go down the Spanish route and send the army and riot police up to Scotland if we want to keep the Scots in the UK. We may have to do the same in Northern Ireland to keep the Catholic counties in the UK
    Sturgeon would create serious divisions within Scotland were she to go down that road. She would not do it.
    She absolutely will do, Nats will go mad if it is No Deal Brexit and no indyref2.
    Some Nats might - but UDI would have little support across Scotland and would be seen as an extreme response. Likely to damage SNP support - perhaps seriously so.
    The polling is clear, if No Deal Brexit a majority of the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the UK.

    Never mind Davidson Unionism the British government would have to go full, hard Rajoy Unionism or Assad and send the army and riot police to Scotland and Northern Ireland and impose British rule using military force if necessary
    You are drunk, trolling or an idiot

    Or possibly all three.

    The U.K. is not going to send the army into Scotland. An independence referendum without Westminister’s Approval has no constitutional standing.

    And no, there will not be an Assad style civil war
    If you think a majority of Scots and Northern Irish Catholics will meekly accept a No Deal, Crash Out Brexit then think again
    Aha! so the soft Himmler is *not* excluded.
This discussion has been closed.