No matter what one may think of Barnier and Juncker they are not Hitler and Goering and they are not planning to invade Poland and then ultimately the UK.
This is not the Battle of Britain 2 no matter how excited some Brexiteers like you get at the prospect of No Deal!
One of your better posts IMO. The pills must be working - are you feeling calmer?
I have read all 155 pages of the Cox Report. If Bercow had any understanding of its absolutely withering criticisms and any honour, he would resign this evening.
It is well worth reading. It paints a horrifying picture which ought to shame MPs and the House's senior management.
It describes a culture where MPs and staff commit with impunity acts which in some cases amount to criminal offences and at a minimum are utterly wrong. Those who complain are put in fear of their jobs and pressure is put on them to put up with behaviour which no-one, in this day and age, should have to put up with. Its procedures are woefully inadequate and not fit for the purpose and do not even comply with current laws let alone best practice. Even the proposed new scheme is described as not worth the paper it is printed on. Investigations are amateurish and conducted by people who do not know what they are doing and press complainants to try and reach informal resolutions with their harassers.
MPs are described as practising "omertà" in respect of bad conduct by one of their number. “Members turn a blind eye to dishonourable behaviour by others, and they have perpetuated a system where they remain largely judge and jury in respect of their own conduct.”
"If the privilege cannot be not a charter for concealing criminal conduct by an MP, no more can it be used to conceal the sexual harassment of staff, or to conceal other bullying or harassive conduct towards staff while he is on Parliamentary premises, being conduct of a kind which would be considered unlawful in any other place of work. Both forms of misconduct may simultaneously involve criminal conduct, and both devalue and undermine the reputation of Parliament in the same way."
MPs have learnt nothing from the Nolan rules on Standards in Public Life and the bad culture is so entrenched and has been around for so long that Cox says she finds it
"difficult to envisage how the necessary changes can be successfully delivered, and the confidence of the staff restored, under the current senior House administration. As one contributor put it, “We need to press the reset button, but I’m not sure the senior administration understand that, or even know what it means.”
The whole process needs tearing up and doing properly by people who really mean it and who do not have "a devotion to process and language rather than to effectiveness".
On the basis of this report I would not advise any young woman or ethnic minority or any young man to go and work in the House, not if they value their peace of mind.
It is shocking and it simply is not good enough for Bercow to hang around. He cannot be part of the solution. And those MPs who do not see this are themselves part of the problem.
Reminiscent of how parliament tolerated theft and fraud by its members prior to the expenses scandal.
No matter what one may think of Barnier and Juncker they are not Hitler and Goering and they are not planning to invade Poland and then ultimately the UK.
This is not the Battle of Britain 2 no matter how excited some Brexiteers like you get at the prospect of No Deal!
One of your better posts IMO. The pills must be working - are you feeling calmer?
I have read all 155 pages of the Cox Report. If Bercow had any understanding of its absolutely withering criticisms and any honour, he would resign this evening.
It is well worth reading. It paints a horrifying picture which ought to shame MPs and
MPs are described as practising "omertà" in respect of bad conduct by one of their number. “Members turn a blind eye to dishonourable behaviour by others, and they have perpetuated a system where they remain largely judge and jury in respect of their own conduct.”
She describes the belief in Parliamentary privilege to be a smokescreen saying of it:
"If the privilege cannot be not a charter for concealing criminal conduct by an MP, no more can it be used to conceal the sexual harassment of staff, or to conceal other bullying or harassive conduct towards staff while he is on Parliamentary premises, being conduct of a kind which would be considered unlawful in any other place of work. Both forms of misconduct may simultaneously involve criminal conduct, and both devalue and undermine the reputation of Parliament in the same way."
MPs have learnt nothing from the Nolan rules on Standards in Public Life and the bad culture is so entrenched and has been around for so long that Cox says she finds it
"difficult to envisage how the necessary changes can be successfully delivered, and the confidence of the staff restored, under the current senior House administration. As one contributor put it, “We need to press the reset button, but I’m not sure the senior administration understand that, or even know what it means.”
The whole process needs tearing up and doing properly by people who really mean it and who do not have "a devotion to process and language rather than to effectiveness".
On the basis of this report I would not advise any young woman or ethnic minority or any young man to go and work in the House, not if they value their peace of mind.
It is shocking and it simply is not good enough for Bercow to hang around. He cannot be part of the solution. And those MPs who do not see this are themselves part of the problem.
My main experience as a young Conservative in my early 20s was of unwanted homosexual attention from older men in much more senior positions, which was very obvious, awkward and uncomfortable. I had to walk away from one or two situations.
But, I was naive and believed their stories about admiring my talent and my brain because I was in awe of big names and the Palace of Westminster.
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
Y'all know I'm the modern day Oliver Cromwell, sans the Puritanism.
It makes sense.
You too, worry about the tyranny of perpetual parliaments?
After worrying about being served a pizza with pineapple on it, it is my second biggest worry in life.
I feel like Cromwell would have strongly disapproved of pineapple on a pizza. I hope you like plain, russet coats as well.
Edit: Ha, I was looking at a few quotes from Cromwell (though I do own several large volumes with his collected words and writings) and the first one on wikiquote is one I have not seen before but which we see its like a lot in modern politics - the 'I'm leaving the country quote'
If the remonstrance had been rejected I would have sold all I had the next morning and never have seen England more, and I know there are many other modest men of the same resolution
You should see my latest range of double breasted waist coats.
I agree with HY. But outside PB bubble everyone slow on picking up on how profound this is.
Indeed, it was the pivotal statement on Brexit since Article 50 was invoked
Yes. Amazing it has not been more widely discussed, outside these parts. It changes the dynamic in a fundamental way. Whether it is a way out, I remain to be convinced...
That will be for Parliament to decide, I expect it to cave in to Barnier
It's funny how a few weeks ago you were singing the praises of Boris and how inevitably Boris was going to take over. Now its that we are inevitably going CUSM.
I swear if next week an opinion poll showed 55% want no deal you'd be saying that was inevitable.
I imagine a September 1st 1939 HYUFD:
There is no way we’ll be going to war with Germany. 62% of Britons are against it, and Chamberlain wouldn’t get it through Parliament anyway as too many of them fought in ww1.
Hitler will withdraw from Poland. And Chamberlain will be PM until 1942. At least.
I agree with HY. But outside PB bubble everyone slow on picking up on how profound this is.
Indeed, it was the pivotal statement on Brexit since Article 50 was invoked
Yes. Amazing it has not been more widely discussed, outside these parts. It changes the dynamic in a fundamental way. Whether it is a way out, I remain to be convinced...
That will be for Parliament to decide, I expect it to cave in to Barnier
It's funny how a few weeks ago you were singing the praises of Boris and how inevitably Boris was going to take over. Now its that we are inevitably going CUSM.
I swear if next week an opinion poll showed 55% want no deal you'd be saying that was inevitable.
I imagine a September 1st 1939 HYUFD:
There is no way we’ll be going to war with Germany. 62% of Britons are against it, and Chamberlain wouldn’t get it through Parliament anyway as too many of them fought in ww1.
Hitler will withdraw from Poland. And Chamberlain will be PM until 1942. At least.
No matter what one may think of Barnier and Juncker they are not Hitler and Goering and they are not planning to invade the UK.
This is not the Battle of Britain 2.
Err, I know.
And the award for entirely missing the point goes to.
No, that is the point.
Brexiteers like you are too busy reliving 'Darkest Hour' fantasies of a No Deal Brexit, while ignoring the threat to the Union and the economy from No Deal
Balls. Threatening no deal is the only way to prevent break up of the country.
Meanwhile you are advocating the voluntary constitutional division of the UK via the backstop. Something that no British PM can ever do.
Another day, another nightmare on South Western Railways. We really have the lousiest railway system in the World!!!
Things need to change...
Wales (labour) have just awarded a new 5 billion pound 15 year franchise under TFW to Joint France - Spanish venture with KeolisAmey. It has been given targets on punctuality and overcrowding and has a cap on profits
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
I have read all 155 pages of the Cox Report. If Bercow had any understanding of its absolutely withering criticisms and any honour, he would resign this evening.
It describes a culture where MPs and staff commit with impunity acts which in some cases amount to criminal offences and at a minimum are utterly wrong. Those who complain are put in fear of their jobs and pressure is put on them to put up with behaviour which no-one, in this day and age, should have to put up with. Its procedures are woefully inadequate and not fit for the purpose and do not even comply with current laws let alone best practice. Even the proposed new scheme is described as not worth the paper it is printed on. Investigations are amateurish and conducted by people who do not know what they are doing and press complainants to try and reach informal resolutions with their harassers.
MPs are described as practising "omertà" in respect of bad conduct by one of their number. “Members turn a blind eye to dishonourable behaviour by others, and they have perpetuated a system where they remain largely judge and jury in respect of their own conduct.”
"If the privilege cannot be not a charter for concealing criminal conduct by an MP, no more can it be used to conceal the sexual harassment of staff, or to conceal other bullying or harassive conduct towards staff while he is on Parliamentary premises, being conduct of a kind which would be considered unlawful in any other place of work. Both forms of misconduct may simultaneously involve criminal conduct, and both devalue and undermine the reputation of Parliament in the same way."
MPs have learnt nothing from the Nolan rules on Standards in Public Life and the bad culture is so entrenched and has been around for so long that Cox says she finds it
"difficult to envisage how the necessary changes can be successfully delivered, and the confidence of the staff restored, under the current senior House administration. As one contributor put it, “We need to press the reset button, but I’m not sure the senior administration understand that, or even know what it means.”
The whole process needs tearing up and doing properly by people who really mean it and who do not have "a devotion to process and language rather than to effectiveness".
It is shocking and it simply is not good enough for Bercow to hang around. He cannot be part of the solution. And those MPs who do not see this are themselves part of the problem.
Reminiscent of how parliament tolerated theft and fraud by its members prior to the expenses scandal.
Well now they are tolerating criminal behaviour and conduct which no decent person would do. So they appear to have learnt precisely nothing from the Nolan report and the expenses scandal.
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
' Death of a Princess is a British 1980 drama-documentary produced by ATV in cooperation with WGBH in the United States. The drama is based on the true story of Princess Misha'al, a young Saudi Arabian princess and her lover who had been publicly executed for adultery. The documentary's depiction of the customs of Saudi Arabia led many governments to oppose its broadcast, under threat of damaging trade ramifications. '
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
I assume it is like one of those, I hope apocryphal, stories where a conversation gets out of hand and is misunderstand by someone.
I want you to terminate an employee, and the underling goes and shoots him instead of handing him his p45.
She would not recommend it, she would let Parliament do the dirty work and vote for EUref2 and say she had to accept what Parliament voted for
You think the PM is going to say she has no idea what to do next and no policy. Not a chance.
No need, May ses-eu-of-trying-to-impose-backstop-to-the-backstop-politics-live
I agree with HY. But outside PB bubble everyone slow on picking up on how profound this is.
Indeed, it was the pivotal statement on Brexit since Article 50 was invoked
Yes. Amazing it has not been more widely discussed, outside these parts. It changes the dynamic in a fundamental way. Whether it is a way out, I remain to be convinced...
That will be for Parliament to decide, I expect it to cave in to Barnier
It's funny how a few weeks ago you were singing the praises of Boris and how inevitably Boris was going to take over. Now its that we are inevitably going CUSM.
I swear if next week an opinion poll showed 55% want no deal you'd be saying that was inevitable.
I imagine a September 1st 1939 HYain will be PM until 1942. At least.
No matter what one may think of Barnier and Juncker they are not Hitler and Goering and they are not planning to invade the UK.
This is not the Battle of Britain 2.
Err, I know.
And the award for entirely missing the point goes to.
No, that is the pn and the economy from No Deal
Balls. Threatening no deal is the only way to prevent break up of the country.
Meanwhile you are advocating the voluntary constitutional division of the UK via the backstop. Something that no British PM can ever do.
Not Balls.
You are content to risk Scotland voting for independence and Northern Ireland leaving the UK which polling shows is a real risk if no deal (NI polling also shows a majority of NI voters want to stay in the SM and CU) as well as all the economic damage that will come with no deal because you put hard Brexit ideology over all else.
We are supposed to be the Conservative AND UNIONIST Party and a Party which is supportive of business and the economy. You wish to turn our party into UKIP, forgetting its core heritage and the country's interests in the process. John Major's words this evening are looking prescient
It does seem that any justification that Bercow should remain on the basis he will stick up for parliament over the government is faulty on the basis the Commons can easily ensure they select another Speaker who would do the same. Similarly, if he should remain on the basis we have enough chaos right now there is some sense to that, but again a new Speaker can be selected very quickly and the chaos would not be that much.
Of course, that ignores that if the report justifies him going, it should eclipse the grubby practical considerations for him remaining. I have not read it, but it sounds incendiary.
No matter what one may think of Barnier and Juncker they are not Hitler and Goering and they are not planning to invade Poland and then ultimately the UK.
This is not the Battle of Britain 2 no matter how excited some Brexiteers like you get at the prospect of No Deal!
One of your better posts IMO. The pills must be working - are you feeling calmer?
Given the range of things Cromwell did in his time, I feel like you might need to specify what Cromwellian thing you think is needed.
The influence Oliver Cromwell had on the long parliament, is what I had in mind.
American Whig historian Charles Wentworth Upham believed the Long Parliament comprised "a set of the greatest geniuses for government that the world ever saw embarked together in one common cause" and whose actions produced an effect, which, at the time, made their country the wonder and admiration of the world, and is still felt and exhibited far beyond the borders of that country, in the progress of reform, and the advancement of popular liberty.[4] He believed its republican principles made it a precursor to the American revolutionary war .
She would not recommend it, she would let Parliament do the dirty work and vote for EUref2 and say she had to accept what Parliament voted for
You think the PM is going to say she has no idea what to do next and no policy. Not a chance.
No need, May ses-eu-of-trying-to-impose-backstop-to-the-backstop-politics-live
I agree with HY. But outside PB bubble everyone slow on picking up on how profound this is.
..
That will be for Parliament to decide, I expect it to cave in to Barnier
I imagine a September 1st 1939 HYain will be PM until 1942. At least.
No matter what one may think of Barnier and Juncker they are not Hitler and Goering and they are not planning to invade the UK.
This is not the Battle of Britain 2.
Err, I know.
And the award for entirely missing the point goes to.
No, that is the pn and the economy from No Deal
Balls. Threatening no deal is the only way to prevent break up of the country.
Meanwhile you are advocating the voluntary constitutional division of the UK via the backstop. Something that no British PM can ever do.
Not Balls.
You are content to risk Scotland voting for independence and Northern Ireland leaving the UK which polling shows is a real risk if no deal (NI polling also shows a majority of NI voters want to stay in the SM and CU) as well as all the economic damage that will come with no deal because you put hard Brexit ideology over all else.
We are supposed to be the Conservative AND UNIONIST Party and a Party which is supportive of business and the economy. You wish to turn our party into UKIP, forgetting its core heritage and the country's interests in the process. John Major's words this evening are looking prescient
Forgive me if I believe Ruth Davidson has more insight into Scotland than you.
She will note vote for the backstop because it divides the Union.
Your plan (surrending and accepting the backstop) 100% divides the union. Mine (not accepting the division of the UK under backstop - I.e. the government position) doesn’t.
I have read all 155 pages of the Cox Report. If Bercow had any understanding of its absolutely withering criticisms and any honour, he would resign this evening.
It describes a culture where MPs and staff commit with impunity acts which in some cases amount to criminal offences and at a minimum are utterly wrong. Those who complain are put in fear of their jobs and pressure is put on them to put up with behaviour which no-one, in this day and age, should have to put up with. Its procedures are woefully inadequate and not fit for the purpose and do not even comply with current laws let alone best practice. Even the proposed new scheme is described as not worth the paper it is printed on. Investigations are amateurish and conducted by people who do not know what they are doing and press complainants to try and reach informal resolutions with their harassers.
MPs are described as practising "omertà" in respect of bad conduct by one of their number. “Members turn a blind eye to dishonourable behaviour by others, and they have perpetuated a system where they remain largely judge and jury in respect of their own conduct.”
MPs have learnt nothing from the Nolan rules on Standards in Public Life and the bad culture is so entrenched and has been around for so long that Cox says she finds it
"difficult to envisage how the necessary changes can be successfully delivered, and the confidence of the staff restored, under the current senior House administration. As one contributor put it, “We need to press the reset button, but I’m not sure the senior administration understand that, or even know what it means.”
The whole process needs tearing up and doing properly by people who really mean it and who do not have "a devotion to process and language rather than to effectiveness".
It is shocking and it simply is not good enough for Bercow to hang around. He cannot be part of the solution. And those MPs who do not see this are themselves part of the problem.
Reminiscent of how parliament tolerated theft and fraud by its members prior to the expenses scandal.
Well now they are tolerating criminal behaviour and conduct which no decent person would do. So they appear to have learnt precisely nothing from the Nolan report and the expenses scandal.
Have we been told that 'lessons have been learnt' yet ?
The lesson learnt usually being to keep things covered up better in future.
Barnier open to extending Brexit transition by another year
In return, Theresa May must accept ‘two-tier’ backstop to avoid an Irish border
Michel Barnier has said he is open to the possibility of a one-year extension to Britain’s Brexit transition in return for Theresa May accepting a “two-tier” backstop to avoid a border in Northern Ireland, according to EU diplomats.
On the eve of a Brexit summit in Brussels on Wednesday night, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator told ministers from the 27 member states that Brussels was ready to propose fresh ideas to reach a deal by next month.
The plan, informally suggested to the UK in talks last week, involve including a one-year extension clause for the 21-month transition period, which ends in December 2020. This would grant more time to agree a new UK-EU trade relationship and avoid special arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Britain, however, objected to significant elements of the plan for Northern Ireland, effectively suspending talks until after the summit of EU leaders this week.
Sir John Major is tonight’s subject of the Two Minutes Hate. If those engaging in the hate spent the time instead trying to come up with a solution to the mess they have cheerled Britain into, they might be using the time more profitably.
Though Sir John’s analysis seems to be detached and accurate.
She would not recommend it, she would let Parliament do the dirty work and vote for EUref2 and say she had to accept what Parliament voted for
You think the PM is going to say she has no idea what to do next and no policy. Not a chance.
No need, May ses-eu-of-trying-to-impose-backstop-to-the-backstop-politics-live
I agree with HY. But outside PB bubble everyone slow on picking up on how profound this is.
..
That will be for Parliament to decide, I expect it to cave in to Barnier
I imagine a September 1st 1939 HYain will be PM until 1942. At least.
No matter what one may think of Barnier and Juncker they are not Hitler and Goering and they are not planning to invade the UK.
This is not the Battle of Britain 2.
Err, I know.
And the award for entirely missing the point goes to.
No, that is the pn and the economy from No Deal
Balls. Threatening no deal is the only way to prevent break up of the country.
Meanwhile you are advocating the voluntary constitutional division of the UK via the backstop. Something that no British PM can ever do.
Not Balls.
You are content to risk Scotland voting for independence and Northern Ireland leaving the UK which polling shows is a real risk if no deal (NI polling also shows a majority of NI voters want to stay in the SM and CU) as well as all the economic damage that will come with no deal because g prescient
Forgive me if I believe Ruth Davidson has more insight into Scotland than you.
She will note vote for the backstop because it divides the Union.
Your plan (surrending and accepting the backstop) 100% divides the union. Mine (not accepting the division of the UK under backstop - I.e. the government position) doesn’t.
Who is the Unionist now?
Ruth Davidson wants a deal and voted Remain unlike you.
I would prefer the whole UK stay permanently in the SM and CU if necessary (which would not divide the UK) than No Deal which would lead to indyref2 and quite possibly Scotland voting for independence and most likely NI voting to leave the UK
Barnier open to extending Brexit transition by another year
In return, Theresa May must accept ‘two-tier’ backstop to avoid an Irish border
Michel Barnier has said he is open to the possibility of a one-year extension to Britain’s Brexit transition in return for Theresa May accepting a “two-tier” backstop to avoid a border in Northern Ireland, according to EU diplomats.
On the eve of a Brexit summit in Brussels on Wednesday night, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator told ministers from the 27 member states that Brussels was ready to propose fresh ideas to reach a deal by next month.
The plan, informally suggested to the UK in talks last week, involve including a one-year extension clause for the 21-month transition period, which ends in December 2020. This would grant more time to agree a new UK-EU trade relationship and avoid special arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Britain, however, objected to significant elements of the plan for Northern Ireland, effectively suspending talks until after the summit of EU leaders this week.
Barnier open to extending Brexit transition by another year
In return, Theresa May must accept ‘two-tier’ backstop to avoid an Irish border
Michel Barnier has said he is open to the possibility of a one-year extension to Britain’s Brexit transition in return for Theresa May accepting a “two-tier” backstop to avoid a border in Northern Ireland, according to EU diplomats.
On the eve of a Brexit summit in Brussels on Wednesday night, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator told ministers from the 27 member states that Brussels was ready to propose fresh ideas to reach a deal by next month.
The plan, informally suggested to the UK in talks last week, involve including a one-year extension clause for the 21-month transition period, which ends in December 2020. This would grant more time to agree a new UK-EU trade relationship and avoid special arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Britain, however, objected to significant elements of the plan for Northern Ireland, effectively suspending talks until after the summit of EU leaders this week.
Not really sure how they would be able to get something done with an extra 12 months if they cannot in 21 months as it is. Given the EU is renowned for coming up with last minute fudge on anything serious, surely any deadline they will always match.
It does seem that any justification that Bercow should remain on the basis he will stick up for parliament over the government is faulty on the basis the Commons can easily ensure they select another Speaker who would do the same. Similarly, if he should remain on the basis we have enough chaos right now there is some sense to that, but again a new Speaker can be selected very quickly and the chaos would not be that much.
Of course, that ignores that if the report justifies him going, it should eclipse the grubby practical considerations for him remaining. I have not read it, but it sounds incendiary.
Bercow demonstrates all that is so toxic in our culture today. The air of entitlement, hectoring, belittling and embarrasing mps on weekly show at PMQ's and still be thinks he can sail on as if he is needed.
No Bercow, you are not needed at all, if you went under a bus today you would be replaced immediately
I despair at the lack of decency, respect (especially for women ) and downright intolerance on display in the HOC and elsewhere.
That sounds like the speeches Major used to give saying why leaving the ERM would be a disaster.
Citation needed.
Major put interest rates up 5% in a single day to try to maintain ERM membership as well as pissing away billions intervening in the foreign currency markets.
The EU are planning to walk away from the Brexit negotiations tomorrow.
You can tell that's what they're planning because *they keep saying it*.
Though I realize that listening to what the EU are saying is an idea that seems to have no traction whatsoever in Maybot's bunker.
I expect them to say something like "We are prepared for a no deal outcome if necessary but look forward optimstically to proposals to resolve the remaining issues."
I've come out of two Brexit planning sessions with several dozen people close to the various sides here and in Brussels. The majority view is that the outcome will be May going for a customs union with a statement of intent to end it but nothing binding, and that she'll get that through Parliament - but we'll then spend the next two years squabbling over what it means. The minority view is that no resolution is possible and there will simply be a basic agreement on basic cooperation while discussions continue after Brexit. Either way, we should expect to be still talking about this in 2020.
Sir John Major is tonight’s subject of the Two Minutes Hate. If those engaging in the hate spent the time instead trying to come up with a solution to the mess they have cheerled Britain into, they might be using the time more profitably.
Though Sir John’s analysis seems to be detached and accurate.
Talking about people never being forgiven sounds more bitter and hysterical than detached. His hatred runs deep.
That sounds like the speeches Major used to give saying why leaving the ERM would be a disaster.
Citation needed.
Major put interest rates up 5% in a single day to try to maintain ERM membership as well as pissing away billions intervening in the foreign currency markets.
Do you not think that proves something ?
It doesn't prove he made speeches saying leaving the ERM would be a disaster.
Sir John Major is tonight’s subject of the Two Minutes Hate. If those engaging in the hate spent the time instead trying to come up with a solution to the mess they have cheerled Britain into, they might be using the time more profitably.
Though Sir John’s analysis seems to be detached and accurate.
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
First, we have to ask whether they cared whether they got away with it or not. Russia has been killing people abroad for years and has barely received more than shrugs.
If they did care, then they may have seen Turkey as safe(r) ground. Erdogan's government doesn't have a stellar reputation wrt press freedoms and journalistic rights, and the Saudis may have thought that Turkey either wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care enough to make a fuss that could not be covered up by diplomatic means.
Sadly for them, it seems Erdogan is playing a different game. I'm unsure what that game is, but it's certainly not based in a respect of journalistic rights. It may be partly a fear not to have a journalist of his regional prominence 'disappear' on their territory.
Whatever, this has turned out to be a real clusterf*ck for the Saudis. An absolute diplomatic disaster, and one of their own making.
On topic, I think our gracious host is getting carried away. Comfortable Tory hold and I'd happily bet a tenner the Lib Dems finish third or lower (as they have done the last few times they contested the seat...)
Another day, another nightmare on South Western Railways. We really have the lousiest railway system in the World!!!
Things need to change...
Wales (labour) have just awarded a new 5 billion pound 15 year franchise under TFW to Joint France - Spanish venture with KeolisAmey. It has been given targets on punctuality and overcrowding and has a cap on profits
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
Yep - might work (SNCF do know how to run a railway!!) I believe the previous railway operator in Wales was a disaster.
Sir John Major is tonight’s subject of the Two Minutes Hate. If those engaging in the hate spent the time instead trying to come up with a solution to the mess they have cheerled Britain into, they might be using the time more profitably.
Though Sir John’s analysis seems to be detached and accurate.
Sir John Major is tonight’s subject of the Two Minutes Hate. If those engaging in the hate spent the time instead trying to come up with a solution to the mess they have cheerled Britain into, they might be using the time more profitably.
Though Sir John’s analysis seems to be detached and accurate.
I think the hate is coming from Major.
As it has been since his ERM humiliation.
Although if you want a practical suggestion to sort out current difficulties then I would suggest tossing a coin over each individual problem.
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
First, we have to ask whether they cared whether they got away with it or not. Russia has been killing people abroad for years and has barely received more than shrugs.
If they did care, then they may have seen Turkey as safe(r) ground. Erdogan's government doesn't have a stellar reputation wrt press freedoms and journalistic rights, and the Saudis may have thought that Turkey either wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care enough to make a fuss that could not be covered up by diplomatic means.
Sadly for them, it seems Erdogan is playing a different game. I'm unsure what that game is, but it's certainly not based in a respect of journalistic rights. It may be partly a fear not to have a journalist of his regional prominence 'disappear' on their territory.
Whatever, this has turned out to be a real clusterf*ck for the Saudis. An absolute diplomatic disaster, and one of their own making.
You reckon? I doubt they'll care. The West has already decided they won't do anything to upset the Saudis, and now they've got a lot of free publicity about the horrific lengths they're prepared to go to...
Another day, another nightmare on South Western Railways. We really have the lousiest railway system in the World!!!
Things need to change...
Wales (labour) have just awarded a new 5 billion pound 15 year franchise under TFW to Joint France - Spanish venture with KeolisAmey. It has been given targets on punctuality and overcrowding and has a cap on profits
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
Yep - might work (SNCF do know how to run a railway!!) I believe the previous railway operator in Wales was a disaster.
Barnier open to extending Brexit transition by another year
In return, Theresa May must accept ‘two-tier’ backstop to avoid an Irish border
Michel Barnier has said he is open to the possibility of a one-year extension to Britain’s Brexit transition in return for Theresa May accepting a “two-tier” backstop to avoid a border in Northern Ireland, according to EU diplomats.
On the eve of a Brexit summit in Brussels on Wednesday night, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator told ministers from the 27 member states that Brussels was ready to propose fresh ideas to reach a deal by next month.
The plan, informally suggested to the UK in talks last week, involve including a one-year extension clause for the 21-month transition period, which ends in December 2020. This would grant more time to agree a new UK-EU trade relationship and avoid special arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Britain, however, objected to significant elements of the plan for Northern Ireland, effectively suspending talks until after the summit of EU leaders this week.
Not really sure how they would be able to get something done with an extra 12 months if they cannot in 21 months as it is. Given the EU is renowned for coming up with last minute fudge on anything serious, surely any deadline they will always match.
In fairness, now the fantasy islanders of DD and Boris are out of the way, there's the potential for an extra twelve months to be spent much more productively. DD floating around like a fart in a trance and Boris's leadership machinations and general silliness were hardly constructive. Things might improve with a second go.
What has John Major said that has made the right-wing Leave dimwits on here jump up and down? Just talking sense to me - have been warming to Major quite a lot recently. If only the Tory party were to have this level on common sense in its ranks...
That sounds like the speeches Major used to give saying why leaving the ERM would be a disaster.
Citation needed.
Major put interest rates up 5% in a single day to try to maintain ERM membership as well as pissing away billions intervening in the foreign currency markets.
Do you not think that proves something ?
It doesn't prove he made speeches saying leaving the ERM would be a disaster.
Yet there were speeches saying that leaving the ERM would be a disaster - I remember them being on the TV news and reported in the papers at that time.
One phrase I remember was the claim that Sterling would become 'as worthless as the Ukrainian Coupon' if we left the ERM.
But we're talking about events 25 years ago with the inevitable blurring of detail.
What we do know were the actions of the government to maintain ERM membership and they certainly live up to a government going 'all-in'.
Barnier open to extending Brexit transition by another year
In return, Theresa May must accept ‘two-tier’ backstop to avoid an Irish border
Michel Barnier has said he is open to the possibility of a one-year extension to Britain’s Brexit transition in return for Theresa May accepting a “two-tier” backstop to avoid a border in Northern Ireland, according to EU diplomats.
On the eve of a Brexit summit in Brussels on Wednesday night, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator told ministers from the 27 member states that Brussels was ready to propose fresh ideas to reach a deal by next month.
The plan, informally suggested to the UK in talks last week, involve including a one-year extension clause for the 21-month transition period, which ends in December 2020. This would grant more time to agree a new UK-EU trade relationship and avoid special arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Britain, however, objected to significant elements of the plan for Northern Ireland, effectively suspending talks until after the summit of EU leaders this week.
Not really sure how they would be able to get something done with an extra 12 months if they cannot in 21 months as it is. Given the EU is renowned for coming up with last minute fudge on anything serious, surely any deadline they will always match.
In fairness, now the fantasy islanders of DD and Boris are out of the way, there's the potential for an extra twelve months to be spent much more productively. DD floating around like a fart in a trance and Boris's leadership machinations and general silliness were hardly constructive. Things might improve with a second go.
But they are't out of the way - the Tories still lack a majority, so even assuming parliament as a whole can agree to such a scenario, it is not as though the same pressures will not apply.
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
First, we have to ask whether they cared whether they got away with it or not. Russia has been killing people abroad for years and has barely received more than shrugs.
If they did care, then they may have seen Turkey as safe(r) ground. Erdogan's government doesn't have a stellar reputation wrt press freedoms and journalistic rights, and the Saudis may have thought that Turkey either wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care enough to make a fuss that could not be covered up by diplomatic means.
Sadly for them, it seems Erdogan is playing a different game. I'm unsure what that game is, but it's certainly not based in a respect of journalistic rights. It may be partly a fear not to have a journalist of his regional prominence 'disappear' on their territory.
Whatever, this has turned out to be a real clusterf*ck for the Saudis. An absolute diplomatic disaster, and one of their own making.
The last sentence explains why they would care, to an extent - sure, Russia's denials about many actions it has taken are not very plausible, but they are sufficiently plausible for their purposes it seems, but 'man enters consulate, does not come out' was always going to narrow the plausible counter narratives that could be deployed.
Another day, another nightmare on South Western Railways. We really have the lousiest railway system in the World!!!
Things need to change...
Wales (labour) have just awarded a new 5 billion pound 15 year franchise under TFW to Joint France - Spanish venture with KeolisAmey. It has been given targets on punctuality and overcrowding and has a cap on profits
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
Yep - might work (SNCF do know how to run a railway!!) I believe the previous railway operator in Wales was a disaster.
Arriva were poor. The new deal brings new trains in due course at a cost of 800 million and 738 million to electify the South Wales valley lines, and 5 new stations.
Partnership of the private sector and government and the length of franchise secures the private investment.
A model for the rest of the UK and no need for union dominated state ownership
1: Total abject surrender. EU refuses to budge an inch, May gives away everything. 2: May is deposed and replaced by an actual Brexiteer who means it when they say no deal is better than a bad deal.
In scenario 1 the EU gets everything they want.
In scenario 2 the EU has a choice. They can either negotiate in good faith and budge because they want a deal, or they can continue to not negotiate and get no deal.
The only scenario where the UK isn't the only one folding is scenario 2. May has no more moves to make than surrender or be replaced.
If May had got a landslide, say 100 seats with lots of new ERG Tory linked MPs the Commons may have accepted No Deal just about, as it is she lost her majority and with 40 Tory MPs who will accept SM + CU over No Deal it won't
If c.350 MPs look to be voting for SM + CU and only 40 of them are Tories then she’ll resign before she’s no confidenced.
Her voters, members and backbenches wouldn’t ever stand for it.
Tough, it is Parliament which is sovereign under our constitution not the Tory Party.
In any case I think in the end only the ERG backed minority of Tory MPs will back no deal over SM+CU backstop for NI and transition period for GB, a majority of Tory MPs voted Remain after all
Parliament is more complicated than your simplistic scenarios.
Parliament can reject the government, the government's own party can also reject the government. Parliament can block actions, but it can't force them. It take a government to make actions happen and that takes a party being able to command the house.
I agree.
For Parliament to act there has to be a Bill. And the Bill has to be introduced.
AIUI Private members bills can be easily stopped unless introduced by HMLoyalOpposition (ie corbyn) . Government Bills can only be introduced by the Gov (ie May).
And that's it.
So regardless of the views of 'Parliament' unless may/corbyn introduce a bill there's nothing to vote on. The single known exception is the already legislated for 'Meaningful Vote'. Which is only yea/nay on the Deal Tmay brings back.
All the talk of a Sovereign Parliament stopping NoDeal, peoplesvotes etc falls down here : there is nothing to vote on.
What has John Major said that has made the right-wing Leave dimwits on here jump up and down? Just talking sense to me - have been warming to Major quite a lot recently. If only the Tory party were to have this level on common sense in its ranks...
I am not sure of your adjective to describe leavers but I hope I am a common sense conservative
Another day, another nightmare on South Western Railways. We really have the lousiest railway system in the World!!!
Things need to change...
Wales (labour) have just awarded a new 5 billion pound 15 year franchise under TFW to Joint France - Spanish venture with KeolisAmey. It has been given targets on punctuality and overcrowding and has a cap on profits
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
Yep - might work (SNCF do know how to run a railway!!) I believe the previous railway operator in Wales was a disaster.
I don't have first-hand experience, but anecdata indicates that SNCF know how to run a high-speed railway well. The rest of their network (i.e. the one the plebs use) is in a rather worse state ...
John Major is the most successful living Tory leader.
Not sure about that but in any case that's not saying much given he took Mrs Thatchers 100+ seat majority from 1987 and lost 40 seats in 1992, presided over the ERM disaster in which he threw Tory voting house-holders to the wolves in order to try and stay in the ERM and ultimately saw the Conservatives get their biggest pasting since the Duke of Wellington in the subsequent election...
The vitriol being heaped over Sir John is absurd. If anyone has the right to criticize the EU it's him - the fact that he doesn't shows that his analysis is considered, rational and fair. As for the ERM, Sir John wished only to use it to stave off his great personal dread of soaring inflation; he was no crazed europhile.
I agree with HY. But outside PB bubble everyone slow on picking up on how profound this is.
Indeed, it was the pivotal statement on Brexit since Article 50 was invoked
Yes. Amazing it has not been more widely discussed, outside these parts. It changes the dynamic in a fundamental way. Whether it is a way out, I remain to be convinced...
That will be for Parliament to decide, I expect it to cave in to Barnier
It's funny how a few weeks ago you were singing the praises of Boris and how inevitably Boris was going to take over. Now its that we are inevitably going CUSM.
I swear if next week an opinion poll showed 55% want no deal you'd be saying that was inevitable.
I imagine a September 1st 1939 HYUFD:
There is no way we’ll be going to war with Germany. 62% of Britons are against it, and Chamberlain wouldn’t get it through Parliament anyway as too many of them fought in ww1.
Hitler will withdraw from Poland. And Chamberlain will be PM until 1942. At least.
Another day, another nightmare on South Western Railways. We really have the lousiest railway system in the World!!!
Things need to change...
Wales (labour) have just awarded a new 5 billion pound 15 year franchise under TFW to Joint France - Spanish venture with KeolisAmey. It has been given targets on punctuality and overcrowding and has a cap on profits
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
Yep - might work (SNCF do know how to run a railway!!) I believe the previous railway operator in Wales was a disaster.
Arriva were poor. The new deal brings new trains in due course at a cost of 800 million and 738 million to electify the South Wales valley lines, and 5 new stations.
Partnership of the private sector and government and the length of franchise secures the private investment.
A model for the rest of the UK and no need for union dominated state ownership
Not the UK state, anyway. Both parties are just owned by some other government.
Another day, another nightmare on South Western Railways. We really have the lousiest railway system in the World!!!
Things need to change...
Wales (labour) have just awarded a new 5 billion pound 15 year franchise under TFW to Joint France - Spanish venture with KeolisAmey. It has been given targets on punctuality and overcrowding and has a cap on profits
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
The new name is Transport for London Wales. According to station announcements they apparently will replace all the old Pacer and other trains by 2023.
BTW I made a brief return to Wales today to do the Swansea District Line (from Llanelli to Port Talbot by-passing Swansea and Neath). Effectively I have captured - on film! - all the major weekday routes running in daylight in England und Wales.
What has John Major said that has made the right-wing Leave dimwits on here jump up and down? Just talking sense to me - have been warming to Major quite a lot recently. If only the Tory party were to have this level on common sense in its ranks...
I am not sure of your adjective to describe leavers but I hope I am a common sense conservative
You are Big_G.
Think both of us are not thrilled with our parties at the moment! I actually do like Corbyn but he's as thick as sh*t. How he got 2 Es at A-level, God knows? I do fear McDonnell though - he is quite a nasty piece of work!
John Major is the most successful living Tory leader.
Not sure about that but in any case that's not saying much given he took Mrs Thatchers 100+ seat majority from 1987 and lost 40 seats in 1992, presided over the ERM disaster in which he threw Tory voting house-holders to the wolves in order to try and stay in the ERM and ultimately saw the Conservatives get their biggest pasting since the Duke of Wellington in the subsequent election...
Other than that I agree he's amazing.
It's really interesting how many people on the right's political views seem to have been formed during that period but based on New Labour's spin rather than the reality.
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
First, we have to ask whether they cared whether they got away with it or not. Russia has been killing people abroad for years and has barely received more than shrugs.
If they did care, then they may have seen Turkey as safe(r) ground. Erdogan's government doesn't have a stellar reputation wrt press freedoms and journalistic rights, and the Saudis may have thought that Turkey either wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care enough to make a fuss that could not be covered up by diplomatic means.
Sadly for them, it seems Erdogan is playing a different game. I'm unsure what that game is, but it's certainly not based in a respect of journalistic rights. It may be partly a fear not to have a journalist of his regional prominence 'disappear' on their territory.
Whatever, this has turned out to be a real clusterf*ck for the Saudis. An absolute diplomatic disaster, and one of their own making.
You reckon? I doubt they'll care. The West has already decided they won't do anything to upset the Saudis, and now they've got a lot of free publicity about the horrific lengths they're prepared to go to...
Indeed.
For most people it will be an Arab government killing one of its own people.
That's assumed to be standard practice for Arab governments as is the brutality.
And its not as if many people have been particularly bothered about Saudi Arabia's actions in Yemen and their consequences:
John Major is the most successful living Tory leader.
Not sure about that but in any case that's not saying much given he took Mrs Thatchers 100+ seat majority from 1987 and lost 40 seats in 1992, presided over the ERM disaster in which he threw Tory voting house-holders to the wolves in order to try and stay in the ERM and ultimately saw the Conservatives get their biggest pasting since the Duke of Wellington in the subsequent election...
Not to diminish the horror of the crime that has occurred, and the potential diplomatic embarrassments that we and others will go through to avoid too much disruption with the Saudis, but how on earth did they ever think to get away with this?
First, we have to ask whether they cared whether they got away with it or not. Russia has been killing people abroad for years and has barely received more than shrugs.
If they did care, then they may have seen Turkey as safe(r) ground. Erdogan's government doesn't have a stellar reputation wrt press freedoms and journalistic rights, and the Saudis may have thought that Turkey either wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care enough to make a fuss that could not be covered up by diplomatic means.
Sadly for them, it seems Erdogan is playing a different game. I'm unsure what that game is, but it's certainly not based in a respect of journalistic rights. It may be partly a fear not to have a journalist of his regional prominence 'disappear' on their territory.
Whatever, this has turned out to be a real clusterf*ck for the Saudis. An absolute diplomatic disaster, and one of their own making.
The last sentence explains why they would care, to an extent - sure, Russia's denials about many actions it has taken are not very plausible, but they are sufficiently plausible for their purposes it seems, but 'man enters consulate, does not come out' was always going to narrow the plausible counter narratives that could be deployed.
I reckon they were not expecting Turkey to respond in the manner they have. Turkey have been very firm in their accusations that he entered the embassy/consulate and did not come out; they could just have said: "We don't know where he went, or where he is. We don't track everyone."
What's more, Turkey have been doing the running with this, and - somewhat surprisingly to me at least - appear to be both factually and morally on the 'right' side.
Erdogan's playing a game here, and it isn't one where he cares about the well-being or freedom of journalists.
Sir John Major is tonight’s subject of the Two Minutes Hate. If those engaging in the hate spent the time instead trying to come up with a solution to the mess they have cheerled Britain into, they might be using the time more profitably.
Though Sir John’s analysis seems to be detached and accurate.
I think the hate is coming from Major.
As it has been since his ERM humiliation.
Although if you want a practical suggestion to sort out current difficulties then I would suggest tossing a coin over each individual problem.
Why should the EU give the Leaver suckers an even break? It’s the mistaken assumption that Leavers have made over and over again from the start.
John Major is the most successful living Tory leader.
Not sure about that but in any case that's not saying much given he took Mrs Thatchers 100+ seat majority from 1987 and lost 40 seats in 1992, presided over the ERM disaster in which he threw Tory voting house-holders to the wolves in order to try and stay in the ERM and ultimately saw the Conservatives get their biggest pasting since the Duke of Wellington in the subsequent election...
Other than that I agree he's amazing.
He served longer than Cameron, got more votes than Cameron, won a majority bigger than Cameron and didn’t rip the heart out of his country like Cameron.
It does seem that any justification that Bercow should remain on the basis he will stick up for parliament over the government is faulty on the basis the Commons can easily ensure they select another Speaker who would do the same. Similarly, if he should remain on the basis we have enough chaos right now there is some sense to that, but again a new Speaker can be selected very quickly and the chaos would not be that much.
Of course, that ignores that if the report justifies him going, it should eclipse the grubby practical considerations for him remaining. I have not read it, but it sounds incendiary.
Bercow demonstrates all that is so toxic in our culture today. The air of entitlement, hectoring, belittling and embarrasing mps on weekly show at PMQ's and still be thinks he can sail on as if he is needed.
No Bercow, you are not needed at all, if you went under a bus today you would be replaced immediately
I despair at the lack of decency, respect (especially for women ) and downright intolerance on display in the HOC and elsewhere.
I do not remember John Major's time in office, but when he has popped up every now and then in years past he comes across as thoughtful and dignified, which I appreciate. I think it optimistic to think he has not been overcome with the kind of Brexit hysteria all of us here indulge in, particularly when he has, sincerely and legitimately, been so clearly on one side. But while I am not a fan of the 'People X are responding negatively to Person Y's comments; this shows they are in a panic over how awesome/insightful they have been' kind of argument (it can be used to, in essence, argue that a reaction to Person Y in itself indicates people must fear that person), given the context of a divided Commons and a blatantly weak government on the cusp of potentially significant further pivots from the hard leave/proper leave position, it is hard not to at least suspect some of the vitriol coming his way (polite vitriol in some cases, if there is such a thing) is not due to worry about things slipping away.
Barnier open to extending Brexit transition by another year
In return, Theresa May must accept ‘two-tier’ backstop to avoid an Irish border
Michel Barnier has said he is open to the possibility of a one-year extension to Britain’s Brexit transition in return for Theresa May accepting a “two-tier” backstop to avoid a border in Northern Ireland, according to EU diplomats.
On the eve of a Brexit summit in Brussels on Wednesday night, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator told ministers from the 27 member states that Brussels was ready to propose fresh ideas to reach a deal by next month.
The plan, informally suggested to the UK in talks last week, involve including a one-year extension clause for the 21-month transition period, which ends in December 2020. This would grant more time to agree a new UK-EU trade relationship and avoid special arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Britain, however, objected to significant elements of the plan for Northern Ireland, effectively suspending talks until after the summit of EU leaders this week.
John Major is the most successful living Tory leader.
Not sure about that but in any case that's not saying much given he took Mrs Thatchers 100+ seat majority from 1987 and lost 40 seats in 1992, presided over the ERM disaster in which he threw Tory voting house-holders to the wolves in order to try and stay in the ERM and ultimately saw the Conservatives get their biggest pasting since the Duke of Wellington in the subsequent election...
Other than that I agree he's amazing.
He served longer than Cameron, got more votes than Cameron, won a majority bigger than Cameron and didn’t rip the heart out of his country like Cameron.
He was better looking than Cameron. He was a better dresser than Cameron. He had more hair! He told funnier jokes! And he could dance the pants off of Cameron!...Cameron!
John Major is the most successful living Tory leader.
Not sure about that but in any case that's not saying much given he took Mrs Thatchers 100+ seat majority from 1987 and lost 40 seats in 1992, presided over the ERM disaster in which he threw Tory voting house-holders to the wolves in order to try and stay in the ERM and ultimately saw the Conservatives get their biggest pasting since the Duke of Wellington in the subsequent election...
Other than that I agree he's amazing.
It's really interesting how many people on the right's political views seem to have been formed during that period but based on New Labour's spin rather than the reality.
Unfortunately for "Sir John" whatever credibility he had dissolved into thin air at this moment
Given the total and abject humiliation he presided over I'm surprised he ever showed his face in public again... I'm not sure I'd have been able to.
But the even bigger mystery is why anyone in the media takes him remotely seriously after being so widely known as the biggest political failure in the lifetime of anyone alive, then or now?
And of course special mention for that waste of space Lord Heseltine who was equally responsible for his "asteroid wiping out all life as we know it" event as Anthony King described it...
Although if you want a practical suggestion to sort out current difficulties then I would suggest tossing a coin over each individual problem.
Why should the EU give the Leaver suckers an even break? It’s the mistaken assumption that Leavers have made over and over again from the start.
Its a mistake UK governments have been making since 1973.
It's a mistake Attlee made at the start of the 50s when he snubbed the creation of the ECSC. Brexit is just an expensive way of relearning the same lesson.
I do not remember John Major's time in office, but when he has popped up every now and then in years past he comes across as thoughtful and dignified, which I appreciate. I think it optimistic to think he has not been overcome with the kind of Brexit hysteria all of us here indulge in, particularly when he has, sincerely and legitimately, been so clearly on one side.
I do remember his time in office and he was seen as decent, perhaps too nice and dreadfully, dreadfully boring. His Spitting Image puppet was a grey-coloured one and it was fascinated by anything dull and boring and had a huge, stiff upper lip.
Today's shower (in either party) make Major look wonderfully competent and thoughtful. A statesman.
I do not remember John Major's time in office, but when he has popped up every now and then in years past he comes across as thoughtful and dignified, which I appreciate. I think it optimistic to think he has not been overcome with the kind of Brexit hysteria all of us here indulge in, particularly when he has, sincerely and legitimately, been so clearly on one side.
I do remember his time in office and he was seen as decent, perhaps too nice and dreadfully, dreadfully boring. His Spitting Image puppet was a grey-coloured one and it was fascinated by anything dull and boring and had a huge, stiff upper lip.
Today's shower (in either party) make Major look wonderfully competent and thoughtful. A statesman.
Amazing ....
Don't forget the jokes about peas and liking to eat at Little Chef.
Still, as you say, a titan compared to this shower of charlatans, liars and stubborn fools.
In effect it isn't, as the transition could well end up being permanent with an application for EFTA membership unless a technical solution is found to the Irish border that ends the backstop and enables a FTA.
In any case no vote needs to be held on the SM and CU for GB only for NI in the vote on the backstop as part of the Withdrawal Agreement.
You are still so confused. EFTA has absolutely nothing to do with this. We cannot join EFTA as being in a CU with the EU is not compatible with EFTA.
What has John Major said that has made the right-wing Leave dimwits on here jump up and down? Just talking sense to me - have been warming to Major quite a lot recently. If only the Tory party were to have this level on common sense in its ranks...
I am not sure of your adjective to describe leavers but I hope I am a common sense conservative
You are Big_G.
Think both of us are not thrilled with our parties at the moment! I actually do like Corbyn but he's as thick as sh*t. How he got 2 Es at A-level, God knows? I do fear McDonnell though - he is quite a nasty piece of work!
Comments
But, I was naive and believed their stories about admiring my talent and my brain because I was in awe of big names and the Palace of Westminster.
Meanwhile you are advocating the voluntary constitutional division of the UK via the backstop. Something that no British PM can ever do.
https://www.hawesandcurtis.co.uk/menswear/shirts/curtis?collar=54&collar=55
I have been mistaken for a Swiss Guard at one point.
Plus ca change ...
Seems an excellent compromise without the downside of full nationalisation
He has more axes to grind than all the orcs in Mordor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_Princess
I want you to terminate an employee, and the underling goes and shoots him instead of handing him his p45.
I thought his view was that we should wait and see?
You are content to risk Scotland voting for independence and Northern Ireland leaving the UK which polling shows is a real risk if no deal (NI polling also shows a majority of NI voters want to stay in the SM and CU) as well as all the economic damage that will come with no deal because you put hard Brexit ideology over all else.
We are supposed to be the Conservative AND UNIONIST Party and a Party which is supportive of business and the economy. You wish to turn our party into UKIP, forgetting its core heritage and the country's interests in the process. John Major's words this evening are looking prescient
Of course, that ignores that if the report justifies him going, it should eclipse the grubby practical considerations for him remaining. I have not read it, but it sounds incendiary.
Theresa should get in first....
Given the range of things Cromwell did in his time, I feel like you might need to specify what Cromwellian thing you think is needed.
The influence Oliver Cromwell had on the long parliament, is what I had in mind.
American Whig historian Charles Wentworth Upham believed the Long Parliament comprised "a set of the greatest geniuses for government that the world ever saw embarked together in one common cause" and whose actions produced an effect, which, at the time, made their country the wonder and admiration of the world, and is still felt and exhibited far beyond the borders of that country, in the progress of reform, and the advancement of popular liberty.[4] He believed its republican principles made it a precursor to the American revolutionary war .
She will note vote for the backstop because it divides the Union.
Your plan (surrending and accepting the backstop) 100% divides the union. Mine (not accepting the division of the UK under backstop - I.e. the government position) doesn’t.
Who is the Unionist now?
The lesson learnt usually being to keep things covered up better in future.
Barnier open to extending Brexit transition by another year
In return, Theresa May must accept ‘two-tier’ backstop to avoid an Irish border
Michel Barnier has said he is open to the possibility of a one-year extension to Britain’s Brexit transition in return for Theresa May accepting a “two-tier” backstop to avoid a border in Northern Ireland, according to EU diplomats.
On the eve of a Brexit summit in Brussels on Wednesday night, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator told ministers from the 27 member states that Brussels was ready to propose fresh ideas to reach a deal by next month.
The plan, informally suggested to the UK in talks last week, involve including a one-year extension clause for the 21-month transition period, which ends in December 2020. This would grant more time to agree a new UK-EU trade relationship and avoid special arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Britain, however, objected to significant elements of the plan for Northern Ireland, effectively suspending talks until after the summit of EU leaders this week.
https://www.ft.com/content/6582b8ce-d175-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Though Sir John’s analysis seems to be detached and accurate.
I would prefer the whole UK stay permanently in the SM and CU if necessary (which would not divide the UK) than No Deal which would lead to indyref2 and quite possibly Scotland voting for independence and most likely NI voting to leave the UK
No Bercow, you are not needed at all, if you went under a bus today you would be replaced immediately
I despair at the lack of decency, respect (especially for women ) and downright intolerance on display in the HOC and elsewhere.
Do you not think that proves something ?
Just wanted to clarify your assumption a couple of threads back
I go out of my way to avoid hanging out with wealthy airheads with nothing to say.
I’d always choose to spend that time with my family instead
As it has been since his ERM humiliation.
If they did care, then they may have seen Turkey as safe(r) ground. Erdogan's government doesn't have a stellar reputation wrt press freedoms and journalistic rights, and the Saudis may have thought that Turkey either wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care enough to make a fuss that could not be covered up by diplomatic means.
Sadly for them, it seems Erdogan is playing a different game. I'm unsure what that game is, but it's certainly not based in a respect of journalistic rights. It may be partly a fear not to have a journalist of his regional prominence 'disappear' on their territory.
Whatever, this has turned out to be a real clusterf*ck for the Saudis. An absolute diplomatic disaster, and one of their own making.
One phrase I remember was the claim that Sterling would become 'as worthless as the Ukrainian Coupon' if we left the ERM.
But we're talking about events 25 years ago with the inevitable blurring of detail.
What we do know were the actions of the government to maintain ERM membership and they certainly live up to a government going 'all-in'.
What do they do, ignore or attack him.
Partnership of the private sector and government and the length of franchise secures the private investment.
A model for the rest of the UK and no need for union dominated state ownership
What do you wear in the day time?
In exchange for a total capitulation, the UK will be graciously awarded an extra 12 months to figure out how to capitulate all over again?
Not sure about that but in any case that's not saying much given he took Mrs Thatchers 100+ seat majority from 1987 and lost 40 seats in 1992, presided over the ERM disaster in which he threw Tory voting house-holders to the wolves in order to try and stay in the ERM and ultimately saw the Conservatives get their biggest pasting since the Duke of Wellington in the subsequent election...
Other than that I agree he's amazing.
BTW I made a brief return to Wales today to do the Swansea District Line (from Llanelli to Port Talbot by-passing Swansea and Neath). Effectively I have captured - on film! - all the major weekday routes running in daylight in England und Wales.
Think both of us are not thrilled with our parties at the moment! I actually do like Corbyn but he's as thick as sh*t. How he got 2 Es at A-level, God knows? I do fear McDonnell though - he is quite a nasty piece of work!
For most people it will be an Arab government killing one of its own people.
That's assumed to be standard practice for Arab governments as is the brutality.
And its not as if many people have been particularly bothered about Saudi Arabia's actions in Yemen and their consequences:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-45857729/yemen-could-be-worst-famine-in-100-years
What's more, Turkey have been doing the running with this, and - somewhat surprisingly to me at least - appear to be both factually and morally on the 'right' side.
Erdogan's playing a game here, and it isn't one where he cares about the well-being or freedom of journalists.
Blair and Thatcher are to my knowledge the only PM's to lead a majority government for a full term since Attlee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OdyjNdAVxU
Given the total and abject humiliation he presided over I'm surprised he ever showed his face in public again... I'm not sure I'd have been able to.
But the even bigger mystery is why anyone in the media takes him remotely seriously after being so widely known as the biggest political failure in the lifetime of anyone alive, then or now?
And of course special mention for that waste of space Lord Heseltine who was equally responsible for his "asteroid wiping out all life as we know it" event as Anthony King described it...
When Major left office, he had a rump of only 165 MPs!
Today's shower (in either party) make Major look wonderfully competent and thoughtful. A statesman.
Amazing ....
Still, as you say, a titan compared to this shower of charlatans, liars and stubborn fools.
I'm all for taking the p*ss out of politicians, but if you have to lie to do so, then you're highlighting your own issues rather than theirs.