So.... the PB consensus is: Nobody has a clue about what to do, but we should push ahead even if it means driving off the cliff.
Incredible. That a country with our history and tradition has been reduced to this level of imbecility. It is astounding.
I shall go and make more popcorn.
No, that is the Archer, Philip Thompson, Mortimer and Gin1138 view, prepare for No Deal, get the Union Jack boxers out and sod Brussels (while basking in the Aussie sun with a beer and totally unaffected in the case of one of them) the majority of voters do not want No Deal and nor do most PBers
Are you and BigGNorthWales in a competition to see who can do the most U-turns on Brexit?
Both myself and BigG voted Remain, we back Brexit now but a sane one
The insanity is mainly the speed it is attempted to do it at. Spread it over 12 years and it just becomes a big admin job.
Spread it over 12 years and it really would be BINO
We must respect democracy, the people were warned this was a possibility but they still voted for it.
Goodness me.
.
.
Just how much connection do you have with any Scots
Please confirm you have visited Scotland , interacted with Scots, and have a large Scots only social media connection
The SNP in Scotland have stepped into labours place and in Scotland, as I have said before, I would vote SNP to keep out a labour candidate
Until the Independence Referendum many Ts. I have - and have always had - a much more hostile view of Nationalism than you appear to hold, and reject it in all its forms whether found in the BNP - UKIP - the right wing of the Tory party - the SNP - or Plaid Cymru.
But it does not stop you making inflamatory remarks to the Scots and their Parliament
I could not even tell my wife about your ill judged comments on suspending Holyrood
Goodness me - Holyrood did not exist until the end of the 1990s! I am simply suggesting that it could be a policy option open to Westminster were Sturgeon to declare UDI! Such an act would be unlawful.
So we could expect scenes like this coming to Edinburgh and Glasgow then
I cannot accept responsibility for your expectations. The fact is that a Scottish Parliament declaring UDI would have acted unlawfully - and lost its legitimacy.
And if you then scrap it expect violent clashes on the streets of Scottish cities as a result
I believe there is a strong case for arguing that if Sturgeon acted in the way suggested by HYUFD , the effect could be to undermine the Devolution Settlement and the suspension of Holyrood could well occur. We have seen this happen in Northern Ireland - with Stormont being suspended and replaced by Direct Rule back in March 1972. More recently the Northern Ireland Assembly has ceased to fully function. Would the SNP really wish to put the Scottish Parliament at risk as a result of taking an ultra extreme line?
The Ultra extreme line of acting on a manifesto comittment?
It would be acting unlawfully!
And what would you do to stop it. Presumably send in the army to put the Scots in their place.
You haven't a clue
I am not going to descend to unpleasantries here, but I feel I do have a legitimate view. I am not English either - having grown up in Pembrokeshire. In the scenario being contemplated, Sturgeon would have escalated matters and behaved in a way likely to be viewed as extreme by much of Scotland. But she will NOT do this!
Ummm, Justin, depending on which side of the Landsker line you were born coming from Pembs could make you indisputably English!
I think you're from Haverfordwest- so bang on the border?
I believe there is a strong case for arguing that if Sturgeon acted in the way suggested by HYUFD , the effect could be to undermine the Devolution Settlement and the suspension of Holyrood could well occur. We have seen this happen in Northern Ireland - with Stormont being suspended and replaced by Direct Rule back in March 1972. More recently the Northern Ireland Assembly has ceased to fully function. Would the SNP really wish to put the Scottish Parliament at risk as a result of taking an ultra extreme line?
The Ultra extreme line of acting on a manifesto comittment?
It would be acting unlawfully!
And what would you do to stop it. Presumably send in the army to put the Scots in their place.
You haven't a clue
I am not going to descend to unpleasantries here, but I feel I do have a legitimate view. I am not English either - having grown up in Pembrokeshire. In the scenario being contemplated, Sturgeon would have escalated matters and behaved in a way likely to be viewed as extreme by much of Scotland. But she will NOT do this!
Ummm, Justin, depending on which side of the Landsker line you were born coming from Pemba could make you indisputably English!
I think you're from Haverfordwest- so bang on the border?
So.... the PB consensus is: Nobody has a clue about what to do, but we should push ahead even if it means driving off the cliff.
Incredible. That a country with our history and tradition has been reduced to this level of imbecility. It is astounding.
I shall go and make more popcorn.
No, that is the Archer, Philip Thompson, Mortimer and Gin1138 view, prepare for No Deal, get the Union Jack boxers out and sod Brussels (while basking in the Aussie sun with a beer and totally unaffected in the case of one of them) the majority of voters do not want No Deal and nor do most PBers
Are you and BigGNorthWales in a competition to see who can do the most U-turns on Brexit?
Both myself and BigG voted Remain, we back Brexit now but a sane one
The insanity is mainly the speed it is attempted to do it at. Spread it over 12 years and it just becomes a big admin job.
So.... the PB consensus is: Nobody has a clue about what to do, but we should push ahead even if it means driving off the cliff.
Incredible. That a country with our history and tradition has been reduced to this level of imbecility. It is astounding.
I shall go and make more popcorn.
No, that is the Archer, Philip Thompson, Mortimer and Gin1138 view, prepare for No Deal, get the Union Jack boxers out and sod Brussels (while basking in the Aussie sun with a beer and totally unaffected in the case of one of them) the majority of voters do not want No Deal and nor do most PBers
Are you and BigGNorthWales in a competition to see who can do the most U-turns on Brexit?
Both myself and BigG voted Remain, we back Brexit now but a sane one
The insanity is mainly the speed it is attempted to do it at. Spread it over 12 years and it just becomes a big admin job.
The timetable is set by Lisbon, you know the one we could’ve voted into oblivion forcing a rethink if only Blair/Brown had kept their promises on a vote. But they didn’t.
We must respect democracy, the people were warned this was a possibility but they still voted for it.
Goodness me.
.
.
Just how much connection do you have with any Scots
Please confirm you have visited Scotland , interacted with Scots, and have a large Scots only social media connection
The SNP in Scotland have stepped into labours place and in Scotland, as I have said before, I would vote SNP to keep out a labour candidate
Until the Independence Referendum many Ts. I have - and have always had - a much more hostile view of Nationalism than you appear to hold, and reject it in all its forms whether found in the BNP - UKIP - the right wing of the Tory party - the SNP - or Plaid Cymru.
But it does not stop you making inflamatory remarks to the Scots and their Parliament
I could not even tell my wife about your ill judged comments on suspending Holyrood
Goodness me - Holyrood did not exist until the end of the 1990s! I am simply suggesting that it could be a policy option open to Westminster were Sturgeon to declare UDI! Such an act would be unlawful.
So we could expect scenes like this coming to Edinburgh and Glasgow then
I cannot accept responsibility for your expectations. The fact is that a Scottish Parliament declaring UDI would have acted unlawfully - and lost its legitimacy.
And if you then scrap it expect violent clashes on the streets of Scottish cities as a result
UDI would likely have caused that anyway!
UDI would only have come about because of a No Deal Brexit imposed on a Scotland that had voted over 60% Remain and Westminster refusing an official independence referendum despite that.
I find the story about Kashoggi, the journalist apparently murdered within the Saudi consulate in Istanbul astounding.
Why is this any different from the Skripal case? Why shouldn’t we be placing immediate sanctions on the Saudi regime? The idea of treating a country which treats people like this - and this is hardly the only example of repellent behaviour by the Saudis - as our ally is grotesque.
So.... the PB consensus is: Nobody has a clue about what to do, but we should push ahead even if it means driving off the cliff.
Incredible. That a country with our history and tradition has been reduced to this level of imbecility. It is astounding.
I shall go and make more popcorn.
No, that is the Archer, Philip Thompson, Mortimer and Gin1138 view, prepare for No Deal, get the Union Jack boxers out and sod Brussels (while basking in the Aussie sun with a beer and totally unaffected in the case of one of them) the majority of voters do not want No Deal and nor do most PBers
Are you and BigGNorthWales in a competition to see who can do the most U-turns on Brexit?
Both myself and BigG voted Remain, we back Brexit now but a sane one
The insanity is mainly the speed it is attempted to do it at. Spread it over 12 years and it just becomes a big admin job.
Talk tonight of an extra year in transistion but I agree, I do not see the rush.
Act in haste, repent at leisure, has never been more succinct.
I cannot accept responsibility for your expectations. The fact is that a Scottish Parliament declaring UDI would have acted unlawfully - and lost its legitimacy.
It's SHITE being a trainspotter!
Sunil's Scottish InvasionIncursion Expedition 1st Oct to 11th Oct 2018
Kirknewton to Uddingston via Shotts Kilwinning to Largs Ardrossan South Beach to Harbour Troon to Kilmarnock Port Glasgow to Gourock Glasgow Central to Neilston Glasgow Central to Paisley Canal Pollokshaws West to East Kilbride Glasgow Central to Cambuslang (via Argyle Street) Cambuslang to Larkhall Polmont to Glasgow Queen St via Cumbernauld Greenfaulds to Hamilton Central via Whifflet Drem to North Berwick Carstairs East junction to Carstairs Mount Florida to Kings Park Bellshill to Motherwell Shieldmuir to Carluke via Wishaw Carluke to Lanark Rutherglen to Whifflet via Carmyle Glasgow Central to Newton via Maxwell Park Holytown to Wishaw Westerton to Milngavie Dalreoch to Helensburgh Central Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland via Maryhill Bellgrove to Springburn Linlithgow to Dalmeny
Until the Independence Referendum many Tories did support the SNP in Scotland on an anti-Labour tactical basis. Much - though not all - of the Tory recovery there can be explained by such voters having returned to their Tory roots and helped deliver significant gains in the rural areas in 2017. Thus, many of those people who were voting SNP from the early 1970s until 2015 have now ceased to do so. The SNP has been able to offset the loss of that support by winning votes in the Labour heartlands - but Labour remains at an average of circa 26% in polls there ie pretty level pegging with the Tories. I have - and have always had - a much more hostile view of Nationalism than you appear to hold, and reject it in all its forms whether found in the BNP - UKIP - the right wing of the Tory party - the SNP - or Plaid Cymru.
Except the voter switching matrix doesn't support that theory. Conservatives in Scotland made almost the entirety of their gains from Unionist Lib Dem voters who switched en masse. They also benefitted from clear differential turnout effects - the SNP vote is a large proportion lazy voters.
My guess is that people in Scotland would be fed up with a third or fourth constitutional referendum in just a few years but if one takes place on independence it is likely to carry. That's because the 2014 coalition for the Union won't be there next time. No-one much will argue for it. We're in union with a corpse. The corpse doesn't care about Scotland either .
Which l regret personally. There is value in unions, whether the UK or the EU.
I wouldn't be so sure, the SNP have been in government for 11 years, which certainly has an effect on their ability to play the insurgent/underdog card. Secondly, aside from immediately after the EU ref, the indyref polls have been remarkably static. Many voters opinion on the independence question are already entrenched.
Comments
I think you're from Haverfordwest- so bang on the border?
Why is this any different from the Skripal case? Why shouldn’t we be placing immediate sanctions on the Saudi regime? The idea of treating a country which treats people like this - and this is hardly the only example of repellent behaviour by the Saudis - as our ally is grotesque.
Act in haste, repent at leisure, has never been more succinct.
Sunil's Scottish Invasion Incursion Expedition 1st Oct to 11th Oct 2018
Kirknewton to Uddingston via Shotts
Kilwinning to Largs
Ardrossan South Beach to Harbour
Troon to Kilmarnock
Port Glasgow to Gourock
Glasgow Central to Neilston
Glasgow Central to Paisley Canal
Pollokshaws West to East Kilbride
Glasgow Central to Cambuslang (via Argyle Street)
Cambuslang to Larkhall
Polmont to Glasgow Queen St via Cumbernauld
Greenfaulds to Hamilton Central via Whifflet
Drem to North Berwick
Carstairs East junction to Carstairs
Mount Florida to Kings Park
Bellshill to Motherwell
Shieldmuir to Carluke via Wishaw
Carluke to Lanark
Rutherglen to Whifflet via Carmyle
Glasgow Central to Newton via Maxwell Park
Holytown to Wishaw
Westerton to Milngavie
Dalreoch to Helensburgh Central
Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland via Maryhill
Bellgrove to Springburn
Linlithgow to Dalmeny