Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
Wow if you'd promoted Reactive to fourth in your list you'd have had a USSR acrostic!
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
The parallel drawn with a country completely unwilling to let its citizens choose to leave was apt. If you object to the Soviet Union and its satellites being chosen to illustrate the point, what other country or bloc of countries would you have cited instead?
As for FCO mandarins, they are responsible for leading us down the garden path and straining every sinew to keep us there since.
I wouldn't. Prison was enough of an analogy.
The Polish are right, the EU hasn't brought tens of thousands of deaths or forty years of oppression to the UK.
What is the world coming to if every time someone draws an analogy between A and B regarding point X, it is shot down because someone else contrives to imply that the analogy was drawn with regard to point Y and Z instead. It just closes down any rational discussion. Frankly I have better things to do than indulge you further.
Once a team has passed the winning margin, all other holes remaining across the slate should be declared A/S. This would end the fiasco of players having to play out dead rubbers when their mates are already out on the piss and the crowds are already celebrating.
I guess you could play out any holes actually in play, then any remaining holes are effectively wiped off. So if Bill is 2UP on Ben thru 14 then Bill is declared to have won 2&1 (as he would have effectively got to Hole 17 and his notional lead would thereby have been unassailable).
Not sure.
It is a fair point but if I was playing Tiger Woods and had a chance of beating him I would want to play out the match.
Mind you Woods abject failure was entirely predictable. He wins one competition and suddenly the US promote him to God like status when in truth he is long past it, as is Mickelson.
Neither should have been in the US team
If you were at least 1UP against Tiger you would have beaten him, that's my point. As long as you were leading at the cut-off point (once one team surpasses 14.5pts) the records will show you as having beaten him.
P.S. Woods was poor in the Ryder Cup but I'm not sure he is past it as you say. He is never good in the Ryder Cup. I do think he (in stroke play tournaments) seems to have improved in recent months, and might yet win another major.
As a former 9 handicap golfer, past captain and past president of a golf club and having played competitive golf for over 50 years before my ostearthritis stopped my playing days I can say that being 1 up with still holes to play would not have beaten him and would not have satisfied me
Well that’s your opinion but the Ryder Cup is a brilliant *team* event. It does however have a structural flaw insofar as it continues after it has already ended!
I just think that is integral to the competition. You do not get the real result by aborting it at 14.5% and letting on course scores become default
You might just as well say you do not get the 'real result' by Mickelson conceding his match when he got wet yesterday. The real result is merely what's within the rules.
I am suggesting a sensible rule change that would end the poor spectacle of players having to play to dead rubbers when everyone else on the course is celebrating victory.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
The parallel drawn with a country completely unwilling to let its citizens choose to leave was apt. If you object to the Soviet Union and its satellites being chosen to illustrate the point, what other country or bloc of countries would you have cited instead?
As for FCO mandarins, they are responsible for leading us down the garden path and straining every sinew to keep us there since.
I wouldn't. Prison was enough of an analogy.
The Polish are right, the EU hasn't brought tens of thousands of deaths or forty years of oppression to the UK.
What is the world coming to if every time someone draws an analogy between A and B regarding point X, it is shot down because someone else contrives to imply that the analogy was drawn with regard to point Y and Z instead. It just closes down any rational discussion. Frankly I have better things to do than indulge you further.
Indeed.
Debate is driven not by words now, but by disrespect for the opinions of others.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
Socialist. Of course. Philip Hammond. Undoubtedly. Yep. For sure. Socialist.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
Wow if you'd promoted Reactive to fourth in your list you'd have had a USSR acrostic!
Phil wouldn't have lasted ten minutes in the USSR or modern Russia.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
The parallel drawn with a country completely unwilling to let its citizens choose to leave was apt. If you object to the Soviet Union and its satellites being chosen to illustrate the point, what other country or bloc of countries would you have cited instead?
As for FCO mandarins, they are responsible for leading us down the garden path and straining every sinew to keep us there since.
I wouldn't. Prison was enough of an analogy.
The Polish are right, the EU hasn't brought tens of thousands of deaths or forty years of oppression to the UK.
Agreed. We should not forget how evil Corbyn's friends in Eastern Europe actually were nor should we trivilise the suffering they inflicted on their own people. These people were murderous, psychopathic, kleptomaniacs, or "friends" as Jeremy called them when visiting.
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
His prison point was facile.
If he wanted to make a point about the integrity of the United Kingdom, about its importance to the UK, in the same way that the integrity of the SM is important to the EU then he should have said just that. Not ruined a good point with nonsense about prisons and the Soviet Union.
There is nothing wrong, in principle, with leaving the EU provided the country is willing to live with the consequences of so doing.
What is wrong is leaving but expecting there to be no consequences and then blaming others for the fact that the country's position will be different outside an organisation to what it was inside.
Even if you assume the absolute worst about the EU's approach to a departing member, all of this was pretty much foreseeable - or ought to have been - by those keenest on Brexit. And ought to have been prepared for. The EU's approach may be utterly regrettable but it was not - and is not - in our power to change. But the UK - if it was serious about Brexit - should have been prepared for the consequences of its decision, both good and ill. It is utterly childish to expect to make decisions and then moan about the consequences.
The Brexiteers in government have been utterly childish throughout this process, are continuing to be so and it is a shame that Hunt, who appeared to be vaguely sane and seemed to be doing good things on his recent trip to the Far East, is joining them.
He wants to be the Tory leader. He knows his audience. He has no interest in anything beyond that. He is not alone, of course.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
Once a team has passed the winning margin, all other holes remaining across the slate should be declared A/S. This would end the fiasco of players having to play out dead rubbers when their mates are already out on the piss and the crowds are already celebrating.
I guess you could play out any holes actually in play, then any remaining holes are effectively wiped off. So if Bill is 2UP on Ben thru 14 then Bill is declared to have won 2&1 (as he would have effectively got to Hole 17 and his notional lead would thereby have been unassailable).
Not sure.
It is a fair point but if I was playing Tiger Woods and had a chance of beating him I would want to play out the match.
Mind you Woods abject failure was entirely predictable. He wins one competition and suddenly the US promote him to God like status when in truth he is long past it, as is Mickelson.
Neither should have been in the US team
If you were at least 1UP against Tiger you would have beaten him, that's my point. As long as you were leading at the cut-off point (once one team surpasses 14.5pts) the records will show you as having beaten him.
P.S. Woods was poor in the Ryder Cup but I'm not sure he is past it as you say. He is never good in the Ryder Cup. I do think he (in stroke play tournaments) seems to have improved in recent months, and might yet win another major.
As a former 9 handicap golfer, past captain and past president of a golf club and having played competitive golf for over 50 years before my ostearthritis stopped my playing days I can say that being 1 up with still holes to play would not have beaten him and would not have satisfied me
Well that’s your opinion but the Ryder Cup is a brilliant *team* event. It does however have a structural flaw insofar as it continues after it has already ended!
I just think that is integral to the competition. You do not get the real result by aborting it at 14.5% and letting on course scores become default
You might just as well say you do not get the 'real result' by Mickelson conceding his match when he got wet yesterday. The real result is merely what's within the rules.
I am suggesting a sensible rule change that would end the poor spectacle of players having to play to dead rubbers when everyone else on the course is celebrating victory.
I do understand your point as yesterday only one match remained but Noren beating Dechambeau must have been a huge moment for him, especially as it went to the 18th
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
Off-topic: Tesco Bank has just been fined £16 million for a data breach. On-topic: the Conservative Party might want to earmark £16 million if that is the going rate for leaking Boris's (and everyone else's) details.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
He's not cowardly either by any stretch of the imagination. He has shown a lot of backbone in telling things as they are, not as some in the party would like them to be.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
He's a tax raiser not a cutter.
Which makes him extremely unsuitable to be a Conservative CoTE.
Once a team has passed the winning margin, all other holes remaining across the slate should be declared A/S. This would end the fiasco of players having to play out dead rubbers when their mates are already out on the piss and the crowds are already celebrating.
I guess you could play out any holes actually in play, then any remaining holes are effectively wiped off. So if Bill is 2UP on Ben thru 14 then Bill is declared to have won 2&1 (as he would have effectively got to Hole 17 and his notional lead would thereby have been unassailable).
snip
If you were at least 1UP against Tiger you would have beaten him, that's my point. As long as you were leading at the cut-off point (once one team surpasses 14.5pts) the records will show you as having beaten him.
P.S. Woods was poor in the Ryder Cup but I'm not sure he is past it as you say. He is never good in the Ryder Cup. I do think he (in stroke play tournaments) seems to have improved in recent months, and might yet win another major.
As a former 9 handicap golfer, past captain and past president of a golf club and having played competitive golf for over 50 years before my ostearthritis stopped my playing days I can say that being 1 up with still holes to play would not have beaten him and would not have satisfied me
Well that’s your opinion but the Ryder Cup is a brilliant *team* event. It does however have a structural flaw insofar as it continues after it has already ended!
I just think that is integral to the competition. You do not get the real result by aborting it at 14.5% and letting on course scores become default
You might just as well say you do not get the 'real result' by Mickelson conceding his match when he got wet yesterday. The real result is merely what's within the rules.
I am suggesting a sensible rule change that would end the poor spectacle of players having to play to dead rubbers when everyone else on the course is celebrating victory.
I do understand your point as yesterday only one match remained but Noren beating Dechambeau must have been a huge moment for him, especially as it went to the 18th
He was 1UP thru 14, so would have won the match 1UP in my scoring system without having to play the final four holes.
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
Not a deal. It’s where the rugby club go. I suspect their ability to detect cheap beer may exceed the depths to which we may go
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
There was a pub near where I studied where beer was 1/- a pint. That was around 1960 though.
Mr. NorthWales, I noticed that. Crass and self-absorbed effort to try and give broadcasters the whip hand, and the numbers are pretty damned small.
Televised election debates are here to stay. An independent commission would seem an appropriate way to manage it and if the wave is coming is better to try and ride it.
They have not arrived in a fixed given format. No consistency at al between the elections of 2010, 2015 and 2017. That fact alone makes it easier for party leaders to be obstructive should it suit them at a particular time.
Off-topic: Tesco Bank has just been fined £16 million for a data breach. On-topic: the Conservative Party might want to earmark £16 million if that is the going rate for leaking Boris's (and everyone else's) details.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
His prison point was facile.
If he wanted to make a point about the integrity of the United Kingdom, about its importance to the UK, in the same way that the integrity of the SM is important to the EU then he should have said just that. Not ruined a good point with nonsense about prisons and the Soviet Union.
There is nothing wrong, in principle, with leaving the EU provided the country is willing to live with the consequences of so doing.
What is wrong is leaving but expecting there to be no consequences and then blaming others for the fact that the country's position will be different outside an organisation to what it was inside.
Even if you assume the absolute worst about the EU's approach to a departing member, all of this was pretty much foreseeable - or ought to have been - by those keenest on Brexit. And ought to have been prepared for. The EU's approach may be utterly regrettable but it was not - and is not - in our power to change. But the UK - if it was serious about Brexit - should have been prepared for the consequences of its decision, both good and ill. It is utterly childish to expect to make decisions and then moan about the consequences.
The Brexiteers in government have been utterly childish throughout this process, are continuing to be so and it is a shame that Hunt, who appeared to be vaguely sane and seemed to be doing good things on his recent trip to the Far East, is joining them.
He wants to be the Tory leader. He knows his audience. He has no interest in anything beyond that. He is not alone, of course.
I really don't think he does know his audience, if he thinks that is what it takes to get members' votes....
Off-topic: Tesco Bank has just been fined £16 million for a data breach. On-topic: the Conservative Party might want to earmark £16 million if that is the going rate for leaking Boris's (and everyone else's) details.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
Utter nonsense from Hammond. The moment the EU have an issue with something we take it off the table, even though they don’t actually need it, but it is fine for the EU to continually demand things that they know are totally against the UKs red lines.
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
His prison point was facile.
If he wanted to make a point about the integrity of the United Kingdom, about its importance to the UK, in the same way that the integrity of the SM is important to the EU then he should have said just that. Not ruined a good point with nonsense about prisons and the Soviet Union.
There is nothing wrong, in principle, with leaving the EU provided the country is willing to live with the consequences of so doing.
What is wrong is leaving but expecting there to be no consequences and then blaming others for the fact that the country's position will be different outside an organisation to what it was inside.
Even if you assume the absolute worst about the EU's approach to a departing member, all of this was pretty much foreseeable - or ought to have been - by those keenest on Brexit. And ought to have been prepared for. The EU's approach may be utterly regrettable but it was not - and is not - in our power to change. But the UK - if it was serious about Brexit - should have been prepared for the consequences of its decision, both good and ill. It is utterly childish to expect to make decisions and then moan about the consequences.
The Brexiteers in government have been utterly childish throughout this process, are continuing to be so and it is a shame that Hunt, who appeared to be vaguely sane and seemed to be doing good things on his recent trip to the Far East, is joining them.
He wants to be the Tory leader. He knows his audience. He has no interest in anything beyond that. He is not alone, of course.
I really don't think he does know his audience, if he thinks that is what it takes to get members' votes....
It was designed to capture the Boris fans; the closest parallel is Johnson's "punishment beatings".
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
I still remember that a pint of Kronenbourg at the Birmingham students union in 1983 - my first year - was 60 pence.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
He's a tax raiser not a cutter.
Which makes him extremely unsuitable to be a Conservative CoTE.
The point he is making, which is sound, is that if you want more money for the NHS then you have to pay tax to generate it. It is not just a matter of the government inventing the money out of thin air.
If you are going to reduce the burden of that tax increase you need to grow the economy which involves a sensible deal on Brexit and safe reliable policies which encourage investment and make this a good place to do business. It is the essential message of the Tories throughout my life and the current phase for fantasy economics on both sides of the aisle does not mean we should forget it.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
Utter nonsense from Hammond. The moment the EU have an issue with something we take it off the table, even though they don’t actually need it, but it is fine for the EU to continually demand things that they know are totally against the UKs red lines.
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
What do you mean "we"? Australia is not involved in these negotiations.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
He's not cowardly either by any stretch of the imagination. He has shown a lot of backbone in telling things as they are, not as some in the party would like them to be.
'Dull' I'll grant.
Indeed. But being 'exciting' is a vastly overrated quality in politicians.
Morning all. A few thoughts on some of the topics discussed upthread:
1. The proposal to ensure that restaurant tips go to the staff is a good one. Contrary to what some people have said, this is not some kind of socialist interference in business, it's a very simple case of honesty: the consumer has a reasonable expectation that tips are tips.
2. Contrary to the cheap jibes about public schools, it is undeniable that Boris is a very talented and clever man. He's just not suited to high office or any role involving a serious grasp of detail, and should direct his considerable talents elsewhere.
3. I really don't see what the objection to Jeremy Hunt's USSR comments were. He was simply making the uncontroversial point that the EU shouldn't have to use threats to ensure countries want to remain members, using the analogy of the USSR using force to ensure countries remained part of its bloc and people from emigrating if they wanted to.
In response (from a non-Conservative perspective):
1) Arguably it's something the Coalition should have resolved but the mood to use legislation within an apparently self-regulating industry wasn't there. Hospitality UK would argue the catering industry is self-regulating but then so (apparently) were people who sold private pensions in the 1980s and early 90s. At what point is self-regulation deemed to have failed and does legislation become the answer?
2) I'm a public school product myself so I'm not the best person to judge. I received a good education but left knowing next to nothing about life.
3) That's pretty desperate. The inference was obvious even if not overtly expressed. It was up there with the Lilley and Portillo gems from the 1990s - a crude attempt to curry favour with an electorate he is desperate to win over. The fact he stoops to do that makes him by definition unfit to be Prime Minister but then you are perhaps part of that electorate (or at least the second stage).
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
He's not cowardly either by any stretch of the imagination. He has shown a lot of backbone in telling things as they are, not as some in the party would like them to be.
'Dull' I'll grant.
But has he Richard? He is the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Every studio is open to him any week he feels like turning up. And he has been mostly silent.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
He's not cowardly either by any stretch of the imagination. He has shown a lot of backbone in telling things as they are, not as some in the party would like them to be.
'Dull' I'll grant.
But has he Richard? He is the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Every studio is open to him any week he feels like turning up. And he has been mostly silent.
Presumably because he knows what he will be asked.
In response (from a non-Conservative perspective):
1) Arguably it's something the Coalition should have resolved but the mood to use legislation within an apparently self-regulating industry wasn't there. Hospitality UK would argue the catering industry is self-regulating but then so (apparently) were people who sold private pensions in the 1980s and early 90s. At what point is self-regulation deemed to have failed and does legislation become the answer?
[.. snip...]
There's no hard-and-fast rule. If possible you try self-regulation first, which is what has happened in respect of tips in restaurants. It has partially worked, but not completely.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
His prison point was facile.
If he wanted to make a point about the integrity of the United Kingdom, about its importance to the UK, in the same way that the integrity of the SM is important to the EU then he should have said just that. Not ruined a good point with nonsense about prisons and the Soviet Union.
There is nothing wrong, in principle, with leaving the EU provided the country is willing to live with the consequences of so doing.
What is wrong is leaving but expecting there to be no consequences and then blaming others for the fact that the country's position will be different outside an organisation to what it was inside.
Even if you assume the absolute worst about the EU's approach to a departing member, all of this was pretty much foreseeable - or ought to have been - by those keenest on Brexit. And ought to have been prepared for. The EU's approach may be utterly regrettable but it was not - and is not - in our power to change. But the UK - if it was serious about Brexit - should have been prepared for the consequences of its decision, both good and ill. It is utterly childish to expect to make decisions and then moan about the consequences.
The Brexiteers in government have been utterly childish throughout this process, are continuing to be so and it is a shame that Hunt, who appeared to be vaguely sane and seemed to be doing good things on his recent trip to the Far East, is joining them.
He wants to be the Tory leader. He knows his audience. He has no interest in anything beyond that. He is not alone, of course.
I really don't think he does know his audience, if he thinks that is what it takes to get members' votes....
It was designed to capture the Boris fans; the closest parallel is Johnson's "punishment beatings".
Boris is full-fat Brexit. From a herd of Guernseys.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
It is because he actually understands business. Proper business that is, where you make stuff and sell it, not the Jacob Rees-Mogg variety.
Hammond is a sensible, measured and sane.
and also
Unispiring Staid Stale Boring Unimaginative Dull Reactive Cowardly Socialist
The only one I would disagree with there is "socialist". He is a sound money Conservative and has clearly fought hard to ensure that the vast majority of any excess tax revenue is used for deficit reduction.
He's not cowardly either by any stretch of the imagination. He has shown a lot of backbone in telling things as they are, not as some in the party would like them to be.
'Dull' I'll grant.
But has he Richard? He is the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Every studio is open to him any week he feels like turning up. And he has been mostly silent.
Presumably because he knows what he will be asked.
Yes and one of the things missing off that list is loyal. He has been loyal to May even when she was being a bit of a shit towards him.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
Utter nonsense from Hammond. The moment the EU have an issue with something we take it off the table, even though they don’t actually need it, but it is fine for the EU to continually demand things that they know are totally against the UKs red lines.
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
What do you mean "we"? Australia is not involved in these negotiations.
Someone had to say it. I must admit I find the daily spectacle of Union Jacked British Nationalists opining on their preferred form of extreme Brexit from their safe house in Australia utterly unedifying.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
Utter nonsense from Hammond. The moment the EU have an issue with something we take it off the table, even though they don’t actually need it, but it is fine for the EU to continually demand things that they know are totally against the UKs red lines.
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
You aren't a negotiator are you...
The EU Red Lines existed before our red lines. The EU Red Lines protect an actual position rather than one we have arbitrarily drawn. The EU cannot give ground on the four freedoms. We can.
To continue to make proposals so far beyond the other side's red line is to demonstrate that you cannot negotiate. To then stomp feet and complain the EU aren't showing respect is the same doubly so.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
Utter nonsense from Hammond. The moment the EU have an issue with something we take it off the table, even though they don’t actually need it, but it is fine for the EU to continually demand things that they know are totally against the UKs red lines.
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
What do you mean "we"? Australia is not involved in these negotiations.
I accused you of being Theresa May’s jokewriter. I was wrong. You clearly work for Hammond.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
Utter nonsense from Hammond. The moment the EU have an issue with something we take it off the table, even though they don’t actually need it, but it is fine for the EU to continually demand things that they know are totally against the UKs red lines.
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
What do you mean "we"? Australia is not involved in these negotiations.
I accused you of being Theresa May’s jokewriter. I was wrong. You clearly work for Hammond.
No, I work in a British company in the UK. Unlike you.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
His prison point was facile.
If he wanted to make a point about the integrity of the United Kingdom, about its importance to the UK, in the same way that the integrity of the SM is important to the EU then he should have said just that. Not ruined a good point with nonsense about prisons and the Soviet Union.
There is nothing wrong, in principle, with leaving the EU provided the country is willing to live with the consequences of so doing.
What is wrong is leaving but expecting there to be no consequences and then blaming others for the fact that the country's position will be different outside an organisation to what it was inside.
Even if you assume the absolute worst about the EU's approach to a departing member, all of this was pretty much foreseeable - or ought to have been - by those keenest on Brexit. And ought to have been prepared for. The EU's approach may be utterly regrettable but it was not - and is not - in our power to change. But the UK - if it was serious about Brexit - should have been prepared for the consequences of its decision, both good and ill. It is utterly childish to expect to make decisions and then moan about the consequences.
The Brexiteers in government have been utterly childish throughout this process, are continuing to be so and it is a shame that Hunt, who appeared to be vaguely sane and seemed to be doing good things on his recent trip to the Far East, is joining them.
He wants to be the Tory leader. He knows his audience. He has no interest in anything beyond that. He is not alone, of course.
I really don't think he does know his audience, if he thinks that is what it takes to get members' votes....
It was designed to capture the Boris fans; the closest parallel is Johnson's "punishment beatings".
Boris is full-fat Brexit. From a herd of Guernseys.
Hunt's Brexit is skimmed. Probably goats milk.
And May's is soya. Surprisingly good shelf life but tastes disgusting.
Hammond may well be the reincarnation of the Spitting Image John Major puppet (grey, dull, uninteresting). But he isn't wrong:
"It isn’t about taking back control, it’s about fantasy world. The European Union have been very clear that as they negotiate with us they have their red lines, just as we have our red lines, and they are not prepared to negotiate for a free trade agreement which includes the whole of the United Kingdom because of the impact that would have on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
We can spend our time sitting at a table, banging it and demanding something that our negotiating partners have clearly told us is not on offer, or we can try to find a way through with a solution that works for Britain and will also be acceptable to them within their red lines." (Good Morning Britain interview)
He speaks facts and practised negotiation strategy. No wonder so many Tories hate him.
Utter nonsense from Hammond. The moment the EU have an issue with something we take it off the table, even though they don’t actually need it, but it is fine for the EU to continually demand things that they know are totally against the UKs red lines.
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
What do you mean "we"? Australia is not involved in these negotiations.
Someone had to say it. I must admit I find the daily spectacle of Union Jacked British Nationalists opining on their preferred form of extreme Brexit from their safe house in Australia utterly unedifying.
Mr. NorthWales, I noticed that. Crass and self-absorbed effort to try and give broadcasters the whip hand, and the numbers are pretty damned small.
Televised election debates are here to stay. An independent commission would seem an appropriate way to manage it and if the wave is coming is better to try and ride it.
They have not arrived in a fixed given format. No consistency at al between the elections of 2010, 2015 and 2017. That fact alone makes it easier for party leaders to be obstructive should it suit them at a particular time.
What we saw at the last election was that a "party leader being obstructive" meant a percentage-point drop in support.
At future elections there will be debates. Leaders will participate in them. The only question is whether they'll be organised by the TV stations or by eg. the Electoral Commission. And it hardly matters which.
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
I still remember that a pint of Kronenbourg at the Birmingham students union in 1983 - my first year - was 60 pence.
A pint of porter was widely available throughout the Black Country for 1 and 3/4 old pence, back in 1911.
If we had seen more of this at the last GE TM would have won her majority
It was May who marginalised Hammond
The media marginalised him, as they do with literally every politician bar the party leaders, and the odd 'colourful character' (Boris Johnson, Diane Abbott).
George Osborne got only slightly more media coverage in either the 2010 or 2015 campaigns, than Hammond did in 2017.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
Sort of on-topic, I just finished the shoemaker and his daughter. Would highly recommend for those interested in a fascinating personal story about one (Armenian) family's experience of the Soviet Union.
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
I still remember that a pint of Kronenbourg at the Birmingham students union in 1983 - my first year - was 60 pence.
I went to Uni, as we didn't call it then, in 1977. Beer 25p a pint, fags, 45p for 20.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
Yep. The Hammond Organ might not be the most exciting of instruments, but it plays a soothing tune.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
I have had my doubts about him but this is impressive.
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
I still remember that a pint of Kronenbourg at the Birmingham students union in 1983 - my first year - was 60 pence.
A pint of porter was widely available throughout the Black Country for 1 and 3/4 old pence, back in 1911.
Mild was what everyone drank in the Black Country when I was in those parts - they did a lovely pint at Molineux (though never say Brum is in the Black Country, of course!).
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
I still remember that a pint of Kronenbourg at the Birmingham students union in 1983 - my first year - was 60 pence.
We must have overlapped - I started at Birmingham in 1985. However, I was drinking pints of mild or bottles of Newcastle Brown.
I remember going to a pub at Five Ways one lunchtime where the lunchtime deal was 35p a pint. Same price as a bag of chips from the chippy round the corner.
Labour won under 30s in 1987 and 1992, those voters are now in their 50s. Had those voters still been voting Labour and not voted Tory in 2017 Corbyn would be in No 10
What percentage of under 30s votes in 1987 vs now? Maybe all the people. Who voted Labour then still do.
As I said most under 30s then who voted voted Labour, most vote Tory now
Hunt's USSR comparison was toss because it's not leaving the EU we're having difficulty with; that would be very easy. It's trying to get some of the benefits of membership from the outside.
Having said that it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong because it's aimed at the Werther's Original suckling legions of the tory membership. Wherein, I assume, it found a receptive if urine scented audience.
It’s inadvisable and a sign of bad character to make personal attacks on your political opponents. But if you have to do it, that’s a very funny one.
Mr. NorthWales, I noticed that. Crass and self-absorbed effort to try and give broadcasters the whip hand, and the numbers are pretty damned small.
Televised election debates are here to stay. An independent commission would seem an appropriate way to manage it and if the wave is coming is better to try and ride it.
They have not arrived in a fixed given format. No consistency at al between the elections of 2010, 2015 and 2017. That fact alone makes it easier for party leaders to be obstructive should it suit them at a particular time.
What we saw at the last election was that a "party leader being obstructive" meant a percentage-point drop in support.
At future elections there will be debates. Leaders will participate in them. The only question is whether they'll be organised by the TV stations or by eg. the Electoral Commission. And it hardly matters which.
The point is that there is no agreed format based on precedent. That opens the door to haggling between the parties and a failure to agree anything. There would also be the further issue next time as whether the smaller parties should be included given their poor performance in 2017. The LibDems could be particularly vulnerable- having done badly at both the 2015 and 2017 elections. No reasonable basis to justify giving them coverage to match Labour and the Tories - unlike in 2010. UKIP did well in terms of vote share in 2015 but collapsed in 2017. The Greens fell back sharply in 2017.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
I have had my doubts about him but this is impressive.
If we had seen more of this at the last GE TM would have won her majority
It was May who marginalised Hammond
The media marginalised him, as they do with literally every politician bar the party leaders, and the odd 'colourful character' (Boris Johnson, Diane Abbott).
George Osborne got only slightly more media coverage in either the 2010 or 2015 campaigns, than Hammond did in 2017.
Sure he was never going to be getting huge amounts of airtime, but they could definitely have gotten his face on TV more if they had wanted to. And he was also marginalised behind the scenes
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
Yep. The Hammond Organ might not be the most exciting of instruments, but it plays a soothing tune.
Where's @Ydoethur when you need him. So many possibilities there.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
Only if all LDs and lots of Labour Remainers moved to the Tories and no Tory Leavers moved to UKIP
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
Yep. The Hammond Organ might not be the most exciting of instruments, but it plays a soothing tune.
Where's @Ydoethur when you need him. So many possibilities there.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
Only if all LDs and lots of Labour Remainers moved to the Tories and no Tory Leavers moved to UKIP
If we had seen more of this at the last GE TM would have won her majority
It was May who marginalised Hammond
The media marginalised him, as they do with literally every politician bar the party leaders, and the odd 'colourful character' (Boris Johnson, Diane Abbott).
George Osborne got only slightly more media coverage in either the 2010 or 2015 campaigns, than Hammond did in 2017.
Sure he was never going to be getting huge amounts of airtime, but they could definitely have gotten his face on TV more if they had wanted to. And he was also marginalised behind the scenes
Pushing him up front and central would have made the economy and the (mainly) sensible plans of the Tories a part of the debate. Instead the economy (arguably the Tory's best single card) was neglected and Labour's fantasy "we'll just cancel all the debts and pay for it by taxing someone yet to be identified in Canary Wharf" got a free pass.
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
I still remember that a pint of Kronenbourg at the Birmingham students union in 1983 - my first year - was 60 pence.
I went to Uni, as we didn't call it then, in 1977. Beer 25p a pint, fags, 45p for 20.
When I lived in Spain back in the late 80s, the exchange rate was around 200 pesetas to the pound. With 1,000 pesetas, you could get 20 Fortuna and nine bottles of San Miguel. Dangerous times.
So that's Hunt, Raab and Hammond who have all made excellent speeches according to your good self.
That likes Javid and May but has the bar been raised too high already? To be fair, after her catastrophic effort, simply standing up and reading pages from the Maidenhead phone book without coughing would be an improvement from the Prime Minister.
"True Johnson now tops the regular next leader “surveys” at the hardline pro-Brexit website ConservativeHome but how representative of the membership is that?"
I thought that the ConservativeHome monthly was a survey of a sample of the whole membership. But Mike implies that this cannot be relied upon as a true guide?
ConHome surveys are not polls where a representative sample is used.
ConHome Surveys of Tory members tend to match Yougov surveys of Tory members and ConHome got the 2005 Tory leadership result spot on, the last time members were consulted
If we had seen more of this at the last GE TM would have won her majority
It was May who marginalised Hammond
The media marginalised him, as they do with literally every politician bar the party leaders, and the odd 'colourful character' (Boris Johnson, Diane Abbott).
George Osborne got only slightly more media coverage in either the 2010 or 2015 campaigns, than Hammond did in 2017.
Sure he was never going to be getting huge amounts of airtime, but they could definitely have gotten his face on TV more if they had wanted to. And he was also marginalised behind the scenes
Pushing him up front and central would have made the economy and the (mainly) sensible plans of the Tories a part of the debate. Instead the economy (arguably the Tory's best single card) was neglected and Labour's fantasy "we'll just cancel all the debts and pay for it by taxing someone yet to be identified in Canary Wharf" got a free pass.
But surely it's not within a party's control who is "front and centre" in a modern election campaign - it largely depends on who the media wants, doesn't it?
Plus, as a matter of strategy, I think you're overlooking that your traditionally Tory "it's the economy stupid"/"don't take a risk"/"the sums don't add up" strategy failed when the Remain Campaign tried it.
Hunt's prison point was fine, his comparison to the USSR inadvisable
His prison point was facile.
If he wanted to make a point about the integrity of the United Kingdom, about its importance to the UK, in the same way that the integrity of the SM is important to the EU then he should have said just that. Not ruined a good point with nonsense about prisons and the Soviet Union.
There is nothing wrong, in principle, with leaving the EU provided the country is willing to live with the consequences of so doing.
What is wrong is leaving but expecting there to be no consequences and then blaming others for the fact that the country's position will be different outside an organisation to what it was inside.
Even if you assume the absolute worst about the EU's approach to a departing member, all of this was pretty much foreseeable - or ought to have been - by those keenest on Brexit. And ought to have been prepared for. The EU's approach may be utterly regrettable but it was not - and is not - in our power to change. But the UK - if it was serious about Brexit - should have been prepared for the consequences of its decision, both good and ill. It is utterly childish to expect to make decisions and then moan about the consequences.
The Brexiteers in government have been utterly childish throughout this process, are continuing to be so and it is a shame that Hunt, who appeared to be vaguely sane and seemed to be doing good things on his recent trip to the Far East, is joining them.
He wants to be the Tory leader. He knows his audience. He has no interest in anything beyond that. He is not alone, of course.
I really don't think he does know his audience, if he thinks that is what it takes to get members' votes....
It was designed to capture the Boris fans; the closest parallel is Johnson's "punishment beatings".
Boris is full-fat Brexit. From a herd of Guernseys.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
I have had my doubts about him but this is impressive.
I for one am all for #Hammond4Leader
He is several strata of intelligence higher than most of our political class nowadays. As I have said before, 'exciting' personalities and wit are vastly overrated qualities in politics.
So that's Hunt, Raab and Hammond who have all made excellent speeches according to your good self.
That likes Javid and May but has the bar been raised too high already? To be fair, after her catastrophic effort, simply standing up and reading pages from the Maidenhead phone book without coughing would be an improvement from the Prime Minister.
They were good speeches and I am not a Hammond fan but I am so pleased he has his hands on the country's purse
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
I have had my doubts about him but this is impressive.
I for one am all for #Hammond4Leader
He is several strata of intelligence higher than most of our political class nowadays. As I have said before, 'exciting' personalities and wit are vastly overrated qualities in politics.
You should avoid confusing dullness for competence.
Bloody hell if Hammo was in charge and no Brexit the Cons would be ahead by 100 pts (rounded up as I’m sure Diane, John and Jeremy would continue to vote Labour).
If, if, if....
Only if all LDs and lots of Labour Remainers moved to the Tories and no Tory Leavers moved to UKIP
That is very true, HYUFD, that is very true. Also, I think Mrs Babcock of No.73 The Avenue, Hythe, might not move to vote for the Tories either.
Customers as well as staff are being ripped off when restaurant owners pocket the tips given. Restaurant owners have been given years to get their houses in order on this. This is a small bit of populism that seems decent enough to me.
+1
The approach I generally take is to ask serving staff if they get all the tip. If not, get restaurants to remove ‘service charges’ from the bill and tip in cash.
I once received a bill which was a bit more than I'd mentally totted my meal to... removed the 15% service charge from a bill and didn't leave a tip. Told the manager "£8 for two small cokes, that's your tip within the bill". 'Enforced tipping' is an unwelcome US import in my opinion.
Round these parts a pint of Coke is often the around the price of a pint of beer. Which is bonkers.
Lime and Soda is much more refreshing and far cheaper!
It was ~ 2011 in London, had never seen such cheek on a bill before.
I can well imagine.
Was in my old favourite Uni haunt last week, the Kings Arms; some chap ordered a pint of fizzy lager and it was over a fiver. Staggering....
My son has just started at Dundee uni. He’s only paying £1.90 a pint on nights out. That compares to £5 a pint at home in Edinburgh. Result!
I presume that this is at the Student Union? I don't think you will find many pubs in the town offering beer at those prices. I certainly don't.
That’s what I thought - but no, it’s in a pub. I don’t know which though.
Fresher's week deal? Beer in Dundee is cheaper than Edinburgh but £3.50 a pint is usually a minimum in my experience.
I still remember that a pint of Kronenbourg at the Birmingham students union in 1983 - my first year - was 60 pence.
I went to Uni, as we didn't call it then, in 1977. Beer 25p a pint, fags, 45p for 20.
Pricey.
You could buy a full steak dinner, with bread AND beer, and still have enough left to tip the waitress for just one shilling... back in 1800.
"True Johnson now tops the regular next leader “surveys” at the hardline pro-Brexit website ConservativeHome but how representative of the membership is that?"
I thought that the ConservativeHome monthly was a survey of a sample of the whole membership. But Mike implies that this cannot be relied upon as a true guide?
ConHome surveys are not polls where a representative sample is used.
ConHome Surveys of Tory members tend to match Yougov surveys of Tory members and ConHome got the 2005 Tory leadership result spot on, the last time members were consulted
You need to understand it is conservative voters that matter and members do not reflect the wider conservative support
Comments
A 101 winner would be something. Nearly half as good as my Verstappen tip
I am suggesting a sensible rule change that would end the poor spectacle of players having to play to dead rubbers when everyone else on the course is celebrating victory.
Debate is driven not by words now, but by disrespect for the opinions of others.
Nevermind chess - tiddlywinks is more his level.
On-topic: the Conservative Party might want to earmark £16 million if that is the going rate for leaking Boris's (and everyone else's) details.
'Dull' I'll grant.
Which makes him extremely unsuitable to be a Conservative CoTE.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/08/05/history-suggests-one-of-philip-hammond-jeremy-hunt-and-sajid-javid-will-be-theresa-mays-successor-if-she-goes-before-the-next-election/
All he knows about negotiation is how to surrender. Not an issue since he wants the EU to force us to stay in the EEA despite the fact it is against Government policy.
He must be so mad that Boris is leading the polls to be the next PM and he doesn’t even rate a mention. That is because Hammond is as talentless as he is dishonest.
If you are going to reduce the burden of that tax increase you need to grow the economy which involves a sensible deal on Brexit and safe reliable policies which encourage investment and make this a good place to do business. It is the essential message of the Tories throughout my life and the current phase for fantasy economics on both sides of the aisle does not mean we should forget it.
Damn, you've got me supporting him now.
1) Arguably it's something the Coalition should have resolved but the mood to use legislation within an apparently self-regulating industry wasn't there. Hospitality UK would argue the catering industry is self-regulating but then so (apparently) were people who sold private pensions in the 1980s and early 90s. At what point is self-regulation deemed to have failed and does legislation become the answer?
2) I'm a public school product myself so I'm not the best person to judge. I received a good education but left knowing next to nothing about life.
3) That's pretty desperate. The inference was obvious even if not overtly expressed. It was up there with the Lilley and Portillo gems from the 1990s - a crude attempt to curry favour with an electorate he is desperate to win over. The fact he stoops to do that makes him by definition unfit to be Prime Minister but then you are perhaps part of that electorate (or at least the second stage).
Hunt's Brexit is skimmed. Probably goats milk.
Someone had to say it. I must admit I find the daily spectacle of Union Jacked British Nationalists opining on their preferred form of extreme Brexit from their safe house in Australia utterly unedifying.
The EU Red Lines existed before our red lines. The EU Red Lines protect an actual position rather than one we have arbitrarily drawn. The EU cannot give ground on the four freedoms. We can.
To continue to make proposals so far beyond the other side's red line is to demonstrate that you cannot negotiate. To then stomp feet and complain the EU aren't showing respect is the same doubly so.
At future elections there will be debates. Leaders will participate in them. The only question is whether they'll be organised by the TV stations or by eg. the Electoral Commission. And it hardly matters which.
https://www.bclm.co.uk/media/learning/library/witr_costofliving1910.pdf
George Osborne got only slightly more media coverage in either the 2010 or 2015 campaigns, than Hammond did in 2017.
I'd prefer Mordaunt, though. Got on her at 81.
If, if, if....
I remember going to a pub at Five Ways one lunchtime where the lunchtime deal was 35p a pint. Same price as a bag of chips from the chippy round the corner.
There would also be the further issue next time as whether the smaller parties should be included given their poor performance in 2017. The LibDems could be particularly vulnerable- having done badly at both the 2015 and 2017 elections. No reasonable basis to justify giving them coverage to match Labour and the Tories - unlike in 2010. UKIP did well in terms of vote share in 2015 but collapsed in 2017. The Greens fell back sharply in 2017.
Clever from Hammond.
That likes Javid and May but has the bar been raised too high already? To be fair, after her catastrophic effort, simply standing up and reading pages from the Maidenhead phone book without coughing would be an improvement from the Prime Minister.
He has given up on being leader one of the papers said at the weekend.
He's a competent middle manager - not PM or CoTE.
Plus, as a matter of strategy, I think you're overlooking that your traditionally Tory "it's the economy stupid"/"don't take a risk"/"the sums don't add up" strategy failed when the Remain Campaign tried it.
He'd know. £800bn in borrowing in 8 years. Borrowed and burned as front line services get cut to the bone.
You could buy a full steak dinner, with bread AND beer, and still have enough left to tip the waitress for just one shilling... back in 1800.
http://footguards.tripod.com/08HISTORY/08_costofliving.htm