Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
No we do not feel improsoned.
Bad enough the FS resorting to hyperbole about the Soviet Union - but did you really have to stoop to ‘Allo ‘Allo ?
Why is it that every time I think the government is marginally better than having Corbyn in power, I get a reminder like this that they are a bunch of asses who deserve to be kicked out of office.
Now I have to vote for a bunch of anti-semitic neo-commies
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
No we do not feel improsoned.
We can leave, and indeed will be doing so in six months, but when we do we lose the benefits of membership. That is not a prison, at least not like one I know. More like a hotel, and when you leave you lose access to the room and facilities. It really is not difficult to understand.
The trouble with mentioning 'hotel', is that we are straight back onto the 'Hotel California' meme: you can checkout but you can never leave.
And don’t forget the dodgy charges for the minibar.
Why is it that every time I think the government is marginally better than having Corbyn in power, I get a reminder like this that they are a bunch of asses who deserve to be kicked out of office.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Excellent.
Although you know you can get from Southampton to Southampton by staying exactly where you start from!
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Why is it that every time I think the government is marginally better than having Corbyn in power, I get a reminder like this that they are a bunch of asses who deserve to be kicked out of office.
Now I have to vote for a bunch of anti-semitic neo-commies
We really are in an odd situation. Two utterly shit main parties.
God she is dreadful at interviews and looks terrified.
It was a struggle but Marr was just as bad not letting her finish her sentences and itching to cut across her. She has a cold caught on her flight back from New York and did look tired
God she is dreadful at interviews and looks terrified.
She's a complete and total waste of space.
The "Get Boris" campaign she and Hammond are unleashing at the moment tells me they know she's finished but they're trying to make sure he isn't her successor.
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
God she is dreadful at interviews and looks terrified.
It was a struggle but Marr was just as bad not letting her finish her sentences and itching to cut across her. She has a cold caught on her flight back from New York and did look tired
Is she the worst communicator to be in No 10 in modern times?
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
LOL! Who the hell would be an "admirer" of Mr Glumbuckets?
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
It better to be bloody blistering and full of actual ideas, if they want a chance.
The sense of drift from this government is looking terminal to me.
Why is it that every time I think the government is marginally better than having Corbyn in power, I get a reminder like this that they are a bunch of asses who deserve to be kicked out of office.
Now I have to vote for a bunch of anti-semitic neo-commies
I live in a safe seat, so can vote for whoever I like, the same donkey will be my representative in parliament. It is quite liberating in a way. I shall be supporting in the nearest LD/Tory marginal though. Loughborough is the only Leics one, and Nicky Morgan is one of the few sensible Tory MPs, so I shall leave her alone.
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I think your figures are mis-dated. The population of Latvia was 2.6 million in 2001.
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
LOL! Who the hell would be an "admirer" of Mr Glumbuckets?
I rather like Hammond. There is much less bullshit with him than most Tories, and I am dry as dust on money matters.
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
It better to be bloody blistering and full of actual ideas, if they want a chance.
The sense of drift from this government is looking terminal to me.
"Blistering" ? From Spreadsheet Phil? You having a larf?
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
LOL! Who the hell would be an "admirer" of Mr Glumbuckets?
I rather like Hammond.
To be honest Dr Fox In Socks In Ox this doesn't surprise me...
God she is dreadful at interviews and looks terrified.
It was a struggle but Marr was just as bad not letting her finish her sentences and itching to cut across her. She has a cold caught on her flight back from New York and did look tired
Is she the worst communicator to be in No 10 in modern times?
I would say so.
Yes I agree she is very poor at communication.
She has a job to do on Brexit and then I hope she will hand over to a successor (not Boris). I would expect her to leave office around May next year but continue as caretaker until the new leader is appointed
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I think your figures are mis-dated. The population of Latvia was 2.6 million in 2001.
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
It better to be bloody blistering and full of actual ideas, if they want a chance.
The sense of drift from this government is looking terminal to me.
"Blistering" ? From Spreadsheet Phil? You having a larf?
God she is dreadful at interviews and looks terrified.
It was a struggle but Marr was just as bad not letting her finish her sentences and itching to cut across her. She has a cold caught on her flight back from New York and did look tired
Is she the worst communicator to be in No 10 in modern times?
I would say so.
Pond hopping does seem to take it out of politicians. Yes minister did a joke about it, hacker trying to make out he was concentrating in meeting when clearly nodding off.
I had a hunch. I have followed it through and I am convinced I have solved the Brexit conundrum.
Canada+gin+Norway+proseco with Guinness as backstop.
Been trying it out all day and it works fine for me.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Atlantic crossing during the colder months? What could possibly go wrong?
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
LOL! Who the hell would be an "admirer" of Mr Glumbuckets?
Lord Digby Jones received a standing ovation for his attack on Boris in his speech
If all the Tory Party can do at conference is attack Boris, then in it is terminal trouble.
Yep. Still looking for the sign of a single idea that will take on Corbyn and the under 45 age group's love of national public utilities, a home, free education and automated marxism.
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Brexit is taking the full band width
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
LOL! Who the hell would be an "admirer" of Mr Glumbuckets?
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I think your figures are mis-dated. The population of Latvia was 2.6 million in 2001.
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
So, the end result of the effect of the EU on Latvia will be a highly racially homogenous country with a tiny population.
Good old EU, eh?
The Russians in Latvia are older, and have fewer children. That is not the EUs fault, but rather that the old Soviet Unions.
My point is that the Latvians are unwilling to take in any migrants. Or hardly any.
That is the EU's fault.
The EU have left Spain & Malta & Italy & Greece to deal with the migrant problem through the fantastically insane Dublin Convention.
If a country's population is falling, that means there are empty houses, empty schools. Why are there migrants sitting in filthy camps in the Greek islands if there are empty houses and dying towns and villages in the Baltics ?
Ultimately, I have no patience with the countries in the East. They are happy for freedom of movement for their own people, but they are unwilling to accept that this comes with obligations & responsibilities to replenish their populations and to accept other people.
That is the EU's fault. The EU allowed this state of affairs to develop and continue.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
I got seasick on a pedalo once! I enjoy the ferry down to Spain from Pompey, but if there’s the slightest swell I’m in bad trouble. A cruise sounds like a big risk.
I wouldn't say Jeremy Hunt is any better than Boris Johnson as FM if he compares the EU to a Soviet gulag preventing Britain from escaping. It's profoundly ignorant as well as insulting.
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
But it's a bit more complex than that. All the Baltic states have seen an exodus of ethnic Russians. That's nothing to do with the EU. All the Baltic states had birth rates below replacement from well before 1996, so that's nothing to do with the EU either.
It's also worth noting that Estonia is now seeing net immigration, and the rate of decline in the other Baltic states has slowed very sharply.
My point is that the Latvians are unwilling to take in any migrants. Or hardly any.
That is the EU's fault.
The EU have left Spain & Malta & Italy & Greece to deal with the migrant problem through the fantastically insane Dublin Convention.
If a country's population is falling, that means there are empty houses, empty schools. Why are there migrants sitting in filthy camps in the Greek islands if there are empty houses and dying towns and villages in the Baltics ?
Ultimately, I have no patience with the countries in the East. They are happy for freedom of movement for their own people, but they are unwilling to accept that this comes with obligations & responsibilities to replenish their populations and to accept other people.
That is the EU's fault. The EU allowed this state of affairs to develop and continue.
But those Eastern European nations don't want to take migrants as they are worried about the effect it will have on their country. If they wanted to open the doors and put people in those houses they could. Are you suggesting the EU should force them to take people (and force migrants who want a life in the west to move there)?
And with a declining population mass migration would have a tremendous change. If they lost half a million of their own population and gained half a million migrants then the migrants would form 2p% of the population. Even if net migration is zero it doesn't mean the impact is zero.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
I got seasick on a pedalo once! I enjoy the ferry down to Spain from Pompey, but if there’s the slightest swell I’m in bad trouble. A cruise sounds like a big risk.
Around the Med in August would be a gentle introduction.
The bay of Biscay which you cross to get to Spain is notoriously prone to bad weather.
My wife was very, very nervous about cruising and even hates crossing the channel on a ferry.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Atlantic crossing during the colder months? What could possibly go wrong?
We have sailed in hurricane seas around Antartica, had a very rough transatlantic return crossing from Greenland trying to beat another hurricane, we had an unbelievable crossing of the North Sea when there were only four of us up for the full english breakfast, so the rougher the better.
We have been on 12 cruises and never once suffered sea sickness. Maybe something to do with our connection with the sea and fishing communities
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Atlantic crossing during the colder months? What could possibly go wrong?
We have sailed in hurricane seas around Antartica, had a very rough transatlantic return crossing from Greenland trying to beat another hurricane, we had an unbelievable crossing of the North Sea when there were only four of us up for the full english breakfast, so the rougher the better.
We have been on 12 cruises and never once suffered sea sickness. Maybe something to do with our connection with the sea and fishing communities
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Atlantic crossing during the colder months? What could possibly go wrong?
We have sailed in hurricane seas around Antartica, had a very rough transatlantic return crossing from Greenland trying to beat another hurricane, we had an unbelievable crossing of the North Sea when there were only four of us up for the full english breakfast, so the rougher the better.
We have been on 12 cruises and never once suffered sea sickness. Maybe something to do with our connection with the sea and fishing communities
More concerned about those big floating white things
My point is that the Latvians are unwilling to take in any migrants. Or hardly any.
That is the EU's fault.
The EU have left Spain & Malta & Italy & Greece to deal with the migrant problem through the fantastically insane Dublin Convention.
If a country's population is falling, that means there are empty houses, empty schools. Why are there migrants sitting in filthy camps in the Greek islands if there are empty houses and dying towns and villages in the Baltics ?
Ultimately, I have no patience with the countries in the East. They are happy for freedom of movement for their own people, but they are unwilling to accept that this comes with obligations & responsibilities to replenish their populations and to accept other people.
That is the EU's fault. The EU allowed this state of affairs to develop and continue.
But those Eastern European nations don't want to take migrants as they are worried about the effect it will have on their country. If they wanted to open the doors and put people in those houses they could. Are you suggesting the EU should force them to take people (and force migrants who want a life in the west to move there)?
And with a declining population mass migration would have a tremendous change. If they lost half a million of their own population and gained half a million migrants then the migrants would form 2p% of the population. Even if net migration is zero it doesn't mean the impact is zero.
I am pointing out a very basic fact. If you lose 25 per cent of your population, then there are empty homes, empty schools.
If migrants need homes, why can't they occupy them?
Of course, it will change Latvia. But that is the price that Latvia has to pay for freedom of movement of its own citizens.
The alternative is a diminishing, but racially pure Latvia.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
I got seasick on a pedalo once! I enjoy the ferry down to Spain from Pompey, but if there’s the slightest swell I’m in bad trouble. A cruise sounds like a big risk.
I can't handle ferries at all, I basically have to stand outside on a deck somewhere in strong winds to stop myself from feeling sick. I can half imagine I'd have to leave a cruise for medical reasons if I ever decided to inflict one on myself....
Although fine for those who can handle the sea so have a great one Big G.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Atlantic crossing during the colder months? What could possibly go wrong?
We have sailed in hurricane seas around Antartica, had a very rough transatlantic return crossing from Greenland trying to beat another hurricane, we had an unbelievable crossing of the North Sea when there were only four of us up for the full english breakfast, so the rougher the better.
We have been on 12 cruises and never once suffered sea sickness. Maybe something to do with our connection with the sea and fishing communities
More concerned about those big floating white things
We have encountered those as well in Antartica, Greenland, and the Svalbard Islands
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I think your figures are mis-dated. The population of Latvia was 2.6 million in 2001.
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
So, the end result of the effect of the EU on Latvia will be a highly racially homogenous country with a tiny population.
Good old EU, eh?
The Russians in Latvia are older, and have fewer children. That is not the EUs fault, but rather that the old Soviet Unions.
My point is that the Latvians are unwilling to take in any migrants. Or hardly any.
That is the EU's fault.
The EU have left Spain & Malta & Italy & Greece to deal with the migrant problem through the fantastically insane Dublin Convention.
If a country's population is falling, that means there are empty houses, empty schools. Why are there migrants sitting in filthy camps in the Greek islands if there are empty houses and dying towns and villages in the Baltics ?
Ultimately, I have no patience with the countries in the East. They are happy for freedom of movement for their own people, but they are unwilling to accept that this comes with obligations & responsibilities to replenish their populations and to accept other people.
That is the EU's fault. The EU allowed this state of affairs to develop and continue.
So you are supporting the idea of forced relocation to the East?
There is precedent, I believe!
But I do agree that the issue of non-EU migration and asylum needs a common European approach. It is a pity that we have walked away from it.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
I got seasick on a pedalo once! I enjoy the ferry down to Spain from Pompey, but if there’s the slightest swell I’m in bad trouble. A cruise sounds like a big risk.
Around the Med in August would be a gentle introduction.
The bay of Biscay which you cross to get to Spain is notoriously prone to bad weather.
My wife was very, very nervous about cruising and even hates crossing the channel on a ferry.
She found the cruise experience very enjoyable.
We have looked for adventure in some of our cruises, hence Antartica, Greenland and the Artic but most cruises are fairly smooth and cruise ships have stabilisers
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
I got seasick on a pedalo once! I enjoy the ferry down to Spain from Pompey, but if there’s the slightest swell I’m in bad trouble. A cruise sounds like a big risk.
I can't handle ferries at all, I basically have to stand outside on a deck somewhere in strong winds to stop myself from feeling sick. I can half imagine I'd have to leave a cruise for medical reasons if I ever decided to inflict one on myself....
Although fine for those who can handle the sea so have a great one Big G.
Thank you. Just need to keep taking the pills in common with many oldies ( sea sickness ones not required)
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I think your figures are mis-dated. The population of Latvia was 2.6 million in 2001.
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
So, the end result of the effect of the EU on Latvia will be a highly racially homogenous country with a tiny population.
Good old EU, eh?
The Russians in Latvia are older, and have fewer children. That is not the EUs fault, but rather that the old Soviet Unions.
My point is that the Latvians are unwilling to take in any migrants. Or hardly any.
That is the EU's fault.
The EU have left Spain & Malta & Italy & Greece to deal with the migrant problem through the fantastically insane Dublin Convention.
If a country's population is falling, that means there are empty houses, empty schools. Why are there migrants sitting in filthy camps in the Greek islands if there are empty houses and dying towns and villages in the Baltics ?
Ultimately, I have no patience with the countries in the East. They are happy for freedom of movement for their own people, but they are unwilling to accept that this comes with obligations & responsibilities to replenish their populations and to accept other people.
That is the EU's fault. The EU allowed this state of affairs to develop and continue.
So you are supporting the idea of forced relocation to the East?
There is precedent, I believe!
But I do agree that the issue of non-EU migration and asylum needs a common European approach. It is a pity that we have walked away from it.
The consequence of the EU's actions is to create a highly racially pure but small population in Latvia, which also has a precedent!
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
But it's a bit more complex than that. All the Baltic states have seen an exodus of ethnic Russians. That's nothing to do with the EU. All the Baltic states had birth rates below replacement from well before 1996, so that's nothing to do with the EU either.
It's also worth noting that Estonia is now seeing net immigration, and the rate of decline in the other Baltic states has slowed very sharply.
My point is that the Latvians are unwilling to take in any migrants. Or hardly any.
That is the EU's fault.
The EU have left Spain & Malta & Italy & Greece to deal with the migrant problem through the fantastically insane Dublin Convention.
If a country's population is falling, that means there are empty houses, empty schools. Why are there migrants sitting in filthy camps in the Greek islands if there are empty houses and dying towns and villages in the Baltics ?
Ultimately, I have no patience with the countries in the East. They are happy for freedom of movement for their own people, but they are unwilling to accept that this comes with obligations & responsibilities to replenish their populations and to accept other people.
That is the EU's fault. The EU allowed this state of affairs to develop and continue.
But those Eastern European nations don't want to take migrants as they are worried about the effect it will have on their country. If they wanted to open the doors and put people in those houses they could. Are you suggesting the EU should force them to take people (and force migrants who want a life in the west to move there)?
And with a declining population mass migration would have a tremendous change. If they lost half a million of their own population and gained half a million migrants then the migrants would form 2p% of the population. Even if net migration is zero it doesn't mean the impact is zero.
I am pointing out a very basic fact. If you lose 25 per cent of your population, then there are empty homes, empty schools.
If migrants need homes, why can't they occupy them?
Of course, it will change Latvia. But that is the price that Latvia has to pay for freedom of movement of its own citizens.
The alternative is a diminishing, but racially pure Latvia.
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
But it's a bit more complex than that. All the Baltic states have seen an exodus of ethnic Russians. That's nothing to do with the EU. All the Baltic states had birth rates below replacement from well before 1996, so that's nothing to do with the EU either.
It's also worth noting that Estonia is now seeing net immigration, and the rate of decline in the other Baltic states has slowed very sharply.
Countries with declining populations should encourage their native populations to have more children. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for Italy having a fertility rate of 1.37 when France has one of 2.01 for instance, or Iceland with 1.93.
Countries with declining populations should encourage their native populations to have more children. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for Italy having a fertility rate of 1.37 when France has one of 2.01 for instance, or Iceland with 1.93.
France has the most fantastic pro-natal policies. Every family member (man, woman and child) gets their own tax allowances and they're pooled.
The result is that if it's a family of five, you need to have an income of close to €250,000 before you hit higher rate taxes.
France is the only country in the entire world - as far as I can tell - where college educated women have such high TFRs (2.4).
Countries with declining populations should encourage their native populations to have more children. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for Italy having a fertility rate of 1.37 when France has one of 2.01 for instance, or Iceland with 1.93.
France has the most fantastic pro-natal policies. Every family member (man, woman and child) gets their own tax allowances and they're pooled.
The result is that if it's a family of five, you need to have an income of close to €250,000 before you hit higher rate taxes.
France is the only country in the entire world - as far as I can tell - where college educated women have such high TFRs (2.4).
Of course, this will never be introduced in the UK, because it would be called "the baby tax", and would be regarded as an enormous bung to higher earners.
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
Unless you think the present migration system is wonderful, or unless you think the migration problem is going to vanish, then changes really do have to be made.
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Countries with declining populations should encourage their native populations to have more children. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for Italy having a fertility rate of 1.37 when France has one of 2.01 for instance, or Iceland with 1.93.
France has the most fantastic pro-natal policies. Every family member (man, woman and child) gets their own tax allowances and they're pooled.
The result is that if it's a family of five, you need to have an income of close to €250,000 before you hit higher rate taxes.
France is the only country in the entire world - as far as I can tell - where college educated women have such high TFRs (2.4).
Countries with declining populations should encourage their native populations to have more children. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for Italy having a fertility rate of 1.37 when France has one of 2.01 for instance, or Iceland with 1.93.
France has the most fantastic pro-natal policies. Every family member (man, woman and child) gets their own tax allowances and they're pooled.
The result is that if it's a family of five, you need to have an income of close to €250,000 before you hit higher rate taxes.
France is the only country in the entire world - as far as I can tell - where college educated women have such high TFRs (2.4).
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
Unless you think the present migration system is wonderful, or unless you think the migration problem is going to vanish, then changes really do have to be made.
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Giving power to the government* is like giving whisky and car keys to teenagers.
The EU system - like it or not - is simply to allow people to live and work where they like. You may not like it. It may result in the complete disappearance of Latvia. But frankly, so fucking what?
Latvia will disappear one day, as will all countries. It's voluntary disappearance via the exodus of its people (should that happen) is surely the best way to go?
I mean, it's just a country. It's not something important, like somebody's life.
Countries with declining populations should encourage their native populations to have more children. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for Italy having a fertility rate of 1.37 when France has one of 2.01 for instance, or Iceland with 1.93.
How would you go about it? I'm not convinced that a couple who don't want children either would or should be persuaded by a tax break.
Countries with declining populations should encourage their native populations to have more children. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for Italy having a fertility rate of 1.37 when France has one of 2.01 for instance, or Iceland with 1.93.
How would you go about it? I'm not convinced that a couple who don't want children either would or should be persuaded by a tax break.
I think it's more about enabling people to afford child number two or number three.
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
Unless you think the present migration system is wonderful, or unless you think the migration problem is going to vanish, then changes really do have to be made.
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Replenished? People are not goods. It’s that kind of two-dimensional thinking that lost Remain the referendum.
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
Unless you think the present migration system is wonderful, or unless you think the migration problem is going to vanish, then changes really do have to be made.
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Giving power to the government* is like giving whisky and car keys to teenagers.
The EU system - like it or not - is simply to allow people to live and work where they like. You may not like it. It may result in the complete disappearance of Latvia. But frankly, so fucking what?
Latvia will disappear one day, as will all countries. It's voluntary disappearance via the exodus of its people (should that happen) is surely the best way to go?
I mean, it's just a country. It's not something important, like somebody's life.
* Replace 'government' with 'EU' if you'd prefer.
Try to be a little bit more original than just parroting O'Rourke.
I started by saying that the EU had done more to cause the disappearance of Latvia than the USSR.
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
Unless you think the present migration system is wonderful, or unless you think the migration problem is going to vanish, then changes really do have to be made.
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Replenished? People are not goods. It’s that kind of two-dimensional thinking that lost Remain the referendum.
Why don't you suggest how to solve the migration problem, then?
Either you let migrants come and settle where they wish. Or you try to direct them to underpopulated regions.
One thing is for certain, the migrants are going to come regardless over the next decades.
My wife and I enjoyed a visit to RY Britannia in Edinburgh last month and it was very interesting. It is so dated and quite small but with lots of history.
The Brexiteers delight in nostalgia. Times have moved on
Presumably a modern Britannia wouldn't be dated.
It is hardly a priority but I have no problem with a RY but it would have to be built in a British shipyard and be available to the Prime Minister and business leaders not just royality
From memory on the old Royal Yacht the Windsors had it 2 months a year and the DTI had it 10 months.
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
Unless you think the present migration system is wonderful, or unless you think the migration problem is going to vanish, then changes really do have to be made.
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Giving power to the government* is like giving whisky and car keys to teenagers.
The EU system - like it or not - is simply to allow people to live and work where they like. You may not like it. It may result in the complete disappearance of Latvia. But frankly, so fucking what?
Latvia will disappear one day, as will all countries. It's voluntary disappearance via the exodus of its people (should that happen) is surely the best way to go?
I mean, it's just a country. It's not something important, like somebody's life.
* Replace 'government' with 'EU' if you'd prefer.
Try to be a little bit more original than just parroting O'Rourke.
I started by saying that the EU had done more to cause the disappearance of Latvia than the USSR.
You seem to be agreeing with me. Excellent.
So, how about celebrating the freedom of its people rather than bitching and moaning?
And the latter is what the Latvians have chosen. So what?
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement? Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
Unless you think the present migration system is wonderful, or unless you think the migration problem is going to vanish, then changes really do have to be made.
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Replenished? People are not goods. It’s that kind of two-dimensional thinking that lost Remain the referendum.
Why don't you suggest how to solve the migration problem, then?
Either you let migrants come and settle where they wish. Or you try to direct them to underpopulated regions.
One thing is for certain, the migrants are going to come regardless over the next decades.
Are they? The number crossing the Med has collapsed.
My wife and I enjoyed a visit to RY Britannia in Edinburgh last month and it was very interesting. It is so dated and quite small but with lots of history.
The Brexiteers delight in nostalgia. Times have moved on
Presumably a modern Britannia wouldn't be dated.
It could and should showcase British engineering and would whisk the Royal Family and ministers around in style and at speed.
The RN currently have a T45 and T23 (only 10% of the escort fleet, no big deal) permanently tied up due to lack of crew. Who's going to be crewing Nu Britannia?
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Demeaning the experiences of those who lived under the Soviet dictatorship in order to promote a leadership bid requires a special kind of self-absorption.
We’ve had years of Leavers comparing the EU to Nazi Germany and the EUSSR is an old trope of Europhobes. Extreme hyperbole has been normalised.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
Have a lovely break Ben.
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
Sounds great - have fun! Just booked a QM2 transatlantic crossing in 2020 for my 60th
Good for you. One of the reasons we are going next September on that cruise is that my wife has always dreamed of sailing into New York. We have flown there but never actually crossed the Atlantic though we have sailed to Greenland from the UK
Atlantic crossing during the colder months? What could possibly go wrong?
I am booked to sail out of Southampton in January 2020 - but heading for the West Indies, the Amazon, and Rio. One of the joys of cruising is the variety of experiences.
Comments
Now I have to vote for a bunch of anti-semitic neo-commies
We were due to cruise to the Canaries next week but as we have already been there we transfered to a 24 day Southampton to Southampton via Nova Scotia, New England and New York next September as an advanced 80 birthday present for my good lady
So far, I have Festival of Britain, circa 1951.
Still, I suppose it's a start.
Switched off.
God she is dreadful at interviews and looks terrified.
Although
We really are in an odd situation. Two utterly shit main parties.
The "Get Boris" campaign she and Hammond are unleashing at the moment tells me they know she's finished but they're trying to make sure he isn't her successor.
Tomorrow Hammond addresses conference and that is the speech to watch. He seems to have quite a few admirers on here
I would say so.
The sense of drift from this government is looking terminal to me.
Good old EU, eh?
She has a job to do on Brexit and then I hope she will hand over to a successor (not Boris). I would expect her to leave office around May next year but continue as caretaker until the new leader is appointed
I had a hunch. I have followed it through and I am convinced I have solved the Brexit conundrum.
Canada+gin+Norway+proseco with Guinness as backstop.
Been trying it out all day and it works fine for me.
That is the EU's fault.
The EU have left Spain & Malta & Italy & Greece to deal with the migrant problem through the fantastically insane Dublin Convention.
If a country's population is falling, that means there are empty houses, empty schools. Why are there migrants sitting in filthy camps in the Greek islands if there are empty houses and dying towns and villages in the Baltics ?
Ultimately, I have no patience with the countries in the East. They are happy for freedom of movement for their own people, but they are unwilling to accept that this comes with obligations & responsibilities to replenish their populations and to accept other people.
That is the EU's fault. The EU allowed this state of affairs to develop and continue.
What is wrong with flying? I like flying. ... provided I am pilot-in-command
It's also worth noting that Estonia is now seeing net immigration, and the rate of decline in the other Baltic states has slowed very sharply.
And with a declining population mass migration would have a tremendous change. If they lost half a million of their own population and gained half a million migrants then the migrants would form 2p% of the population. Even if net migration is zero it doesn't mean the impact is zero.
The bay of Biscay which you cross to get to Spain is notoriously prone to bad weather.
My wife was very, very nervous about cruising and even hates crossing the channel on a ferry.
She found the cruise experience very enjoyable.
We have been on 12 cruises and never once suffered sea sickness. Maybe something to do with our connection with the sea and fishing communities
We have been on 12 cruises and never once suffered sea sickness. Maybe something to do with our connection with the sea and fishing communities
If migrants need homes, why can't they occupy them?
Of course, it will change Latvia. But that is the price that Latvia has to pay for freedom of movement of its own citizens.
The alternative is a diminishing, but racially pure Latvia.
Although fine for those who can handle the sea so have a great one Big G.
There is precedent, I believe!
But I do agree that the issue of non-EU migration and asylum needs a common European approach. It is a pity that we have walked away from it.
Think of it a a zombia apocalypse, but without the ability to shoot the blighters.
All the very best to everyone
Good night folks
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population
do not support the later two statements. Estonia has fared better than Lithuania and Latvia, but it is still losing people.
The rate of decline in Latvia and Lithuania has slowed, but not very sharply. They are still losing people.
"Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt compares EU to 'prison' of Soviet Union"
https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-secretary-jeremy-hunt-compares-eu-to-prison-of-soviet-union-11513718
Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?
Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?
That's three years of positive net migration for Estonia in a row.
At 7,808, net migration from Latvia was the lowest level since 1999.
The result is that if it's a family of five, you need to have an income of close to €250,000 before you hit higher rate taxes.
France is the only country in the entire world - as far as I can tell - where college educated women have such high TFRs (2.4).
The Dublin Convention is completely unsustainable. It puts a huge burden on those countries by an accident of geography lie close to the Middle East and North Africa. Certainly, Italy & Malta & Greece have pretty much had enough.
You ask: "Should the EU force Latvia to take on people who aren't EU citizens and thus aren't entitled to free movement?"
Yes. Latvian citizens gained the right of freedom of movement. They moved. They should be replenished.
You ask:"Should the EU force migrants who want to go to western Europe to be repatriated to the East instead?"
Yes. I would open legal migration opportunities to the EU that restrict the migrant (in the first 5 or 10 years) to living in certain regions which need replenishment.
It seems logical to try to direct migration flows to underpopulated areas rather than allow a free-for-all.
Nice try Jacob.
The EU system - like it or not - is simply to allow people to live and work where they like. You may not like it. It may result in the complete disappearance of Latvia. But frankly, so fucking what?
Latvia will disappear one day, as will all countries. It's voluntary disappearance via the exodus of its people (should that happen) is surely the best way to go?
I mean, it's just a country. It's not something important, like somebody's life.
* Replace 'government' with 'EU' if you'd prefer.
I started by saying that the EU had done more to cause the disappearance of Latvia than the USSR.
You seem to be agreeing with me. Excellent.
Either you let migrants come and settle where they wish. Or you try to direct them to underpopulated regions.
One thing is for certain, the migrants are going to come regardless over the next decades.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45698446
https://twitter.com/stevepeers/status/1046550470918107138?s=21
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/219905