I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
It’s not an attempt to showcase the country. It’s an attempt to propagandise a mad reactionary idea and claim that is the only allowable expression of patriotism.
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
The Tories are successfully turning our country into a laughing stock on the international stage while putting its future at serious risk. They are in no position to lecture anyone on belittling the UK. They are doing it all by themselves.
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
Just to belittle the Tory showcase. There is far more to Britain than Thesesa May's vision. Remember that at best 40% support the Tories, so 60% do not.
Where will be the celebration of the other 60% take place? as part of the Festival? or outside pelting it with rotten tomatoes?
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
I am surprised at the extent and co-ordination of the attacks on Boris especially as this is day one
He is not at the conference but is going to appear at a side event on tuesday.
He may find by then he is the object of great ridicule, even more so than now
This just isn’t acheiving anything. Because Boris is right on Brexit and the cabinet look stupid defending a deal that none of them believe can actually be delivered.
Look at Hunt today. You call him a serious politician for bashing the EU. Er - looks like an opportunist with no principles to me. He voted Remain and never showed any real sign of being a Eurosceptic. Then magically he changes his mind when Leave win. Then he backs Chequers. Now he is bashing the EU just to advance his odds in the leadership. There is really no difference between Hunt and Johnson. They are both doing what they can to take over from May.
If Boris was such a joke, why spend all this effort on him? Because, of course, for all his faults he has been right about Brexit and the rest have been wrong.
But take out Boris if it makes you feel better. We can then have JRM instead!
Hunt was also clear today that while Brexit must be 'just to the 52%' it must also be 'generous to the 48%'
How? Some firm suggestions please as to how that is actually implemented - without the membership pointing and laughing at him. It sounds like vacuous PM-pitch wank.
The memberip in the hall were certainly not laughing at him. He received great applause for his speech
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
It’s not an attempt to showcase the country. It’s an attempt to propagandise a mad reactionary idea and claim that is the only allowable expression of patriotism.
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
I am surprised at the extent and co-ordination of the attacks on Boris especially as this is day one
He is not at the conference but is going to appear at a side event on tuesday.
He may find by then he is the object of great ridicule, even more so than now
This just isn’t acheiving anything. Because Boris is right on Brexit and the cabinet look stupid defending a deal that none of them believe can actually be delivered.
Look at Hunt today. You call him a serious politician for bashing the EU. Er - looks like an opportunist with no principles to me. He voted Remain and never showed any real sign of being a Eurosceptic. Then magically he changes his mind when Leave win. Then he backs Chequers. Now he is bashing the EU just to advance his odds in the leadership. There is really no difference between Hunt and Johnson. They are both doing what they can to take over from May.
If Boris was such a joke, why spend all this effort on him? Because, of course, for all his faults he has been right about Brexit and the rest have been wrong.
But take out Boris if it makes you feel better. We can then have JRM instead!
Hunt was also clear today that while Brexit must be 'just to the 52%' it must also be 'generous to the 48%'
How? Some firm suggestions please as to how that is actually implemented - without the membership pointing and laughing at him. It sounds like vacuous PM-pitch wank.
The memberip in the hall were certainly not laughing at him. He received great applause for his speech
I was watching it on telly. It was a thin house. The response didn't seem especially positive, though I guess that could just have been the sound balance.
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
It’s not an attempt to showcase the country. It’s an attempt to propagandise a mad reactionary idea and claim that is the only allowable expression of patriotism.
Utter claptrap
Nevertheless it is very likely to be crap, and divide rather than unite. Brings back memories of Labour's great idea that was the Millenium Dome.
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
Just to belittle the Tory showcase. There is far more to Britain than Thesesa May's vision. Remember that at best 40% support the Tories, so 60% do not.
Where will be the celebration of the other 60% take place? as part of the Festival? or outside pelting it with rotten tomatoes?
Are you seriously saying 60% of the country is not proud of it .
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
You neglect to mention that the result of the referendum has yet to be implemented.
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
It's more a question of 'now you see it, do you like it?' than simply a question of a re-run of the same vague question as before.
I am surprised at the extent and co-ordination of the attacks on Boris especially as this is day one
He is not at the conference but is going to appear at a side event on tuesday.
He may find by then he is the object of great ridicule, even more so than now
This just isn’t acheiving anything. Because Boris is right on Brexit and the cabinet look stupid defending a deal that none of them believe can actually be delivered.
Look at Hunt today. You call him a serious politician for bashing the EU. Er - looks like an opportunist with no principles to me. He voted Remain and never showed any real sign of being a Eurosceptic. Then magically he changes his mind when Leave win. Then he backs Chequers. Now he is bashing the EU just to advance his odds in the leadership. There is really no difference between Hunt and Johnson. They are both doing what they can to take over from May.
If Boris was such a joke, why spend all this effort on him? Because, of course, for all his faults he has been right about Brexit and the rest have been wrong.
But take out Boris if it makes you feel better. We can then have JRM instead!
Hunt was also clear today that while Brexit must be 'just to the 52%' it must also be 'generous to the 48%'
How? Some firm suggestions please as to how that is actually implemented - without the membership pointing and laughing at him. It sounds like vacuous PM-pitch wank.
The memberip in the hall were certainly not laughing at him. He received great applause for his speech
I was watching it on telly. It was a thin house. The response didn't seem especially positive, though I guess that could just have been the sound balance.
The media reporting was positive and his odds to succeed TM have improved as a result
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
Just to belittle the Tory showcase. There is far more to Britain than Thesesa May's vision. Remember that at best 40% support the Tories, so 60% do not.
Where will be the celebration of the other 60% take place? as part of the Festival? or outside pelting it with rotten tomatoes?
Are you seriously saying 60% of the country is not proud of it .
A Tory Brexit festival designed by Theresa May doesn’t look like something to stir the non-Tory majority.
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
39 years is the norm for EU referendums.
39 years is simply the time between referendums - nothing to do with when folk may have changed their mind about belonging to the EU. The most recent referendum just gave people the opportunity to register their change of mind - or confirm their previous decision if indeed they were entitled to vote 39 years ago.
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
So, if there was a peoples vote and the result were overturned - when can we ask for best of 3?
I’m not sure how the Festival of Brexit is supposed to bring the country together. Once they’ve got past the innovative jams and Andrea Jenkyns has been modelled for the masthead of the new Britannia, I’m struggling to understand how the event is supposed to persuade what is now a sceptical majority that Brexit is a good idea. It sounds like reactionary claptrap to anyone who’s not completely high on the drug of Europhobia.
There is no problem having a UK wide celebration of our Country in 2022 and at the time of the Commonwealth games. Brexit will have happened in some form by then.
Why do you hate us celebrating our Country
A festival of Brexit devised by Theresa May. What could possibly go wrong?
Why do those on the left belittle attempts to showcase our country. Strange
Just to belittle the Tory showcase. There is far more to Britain than Thesesa May's vision. Remember that at best 40% support the Tories, so 60% do not.
Where will be the celebration of the other 60% take place? as part of the Festival? or outside pelting it with rotten tomatoes?
Are you seriously saying 60% of the country is not proud of it .
The other 60% are proud of other things. The levellers, the Chartists, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, The Scotish Jacobites, George Orwell, Tony Benn, The 1983 striking miners, Notting Hill Carnival, British influence in Europe, and many other things.
There is far more to be proud of in Britain than Toryism. A "Festival of Britain" for the 40% will be rightly mocked.
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office - I do not like it and I don't think it helps - but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians? They are politicians and know the realities of playing, well, politics.
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
Any attack on the EU will be silenced
I believe those drawing EU pensions are not allowed to show any dissent against the project
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
I thought we were treating the EU with nothing but the utmost respect. Or was that just last week?
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
So, if there was a peoples vote and the result were overturned - when can we ask for best of 3?
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
I thought we were treating the EU with nothing but the utmost respect. Or was that just last week?
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
I thought we were treating the EU with nothing but the utmost respect. Or was that just last week?
I suspect the Jeremy Hunt comment is just something to distract Tory members from May saying she was prepared to compromise even further from the Chequers position.
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office - I do not like it and I don't think it helps - but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians? They are politicians and know the realities of playing, well, politics.
It is true that democratically elected European leaders should be used to Tory politicians comparing to murderous tyrants by now.
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
39 years is the norm for EU referendums.
39 years is simply the time between referendums - nothing to do with when folk may have changed their mind about belonging to the EU. The most recent referendum just gave people the opportunity to register their change of mind - or confirm their previous decision if indeed they were entitled to vote 39 years ago.
Of course, we could spend the rest of our lives affirming the decision we have made or registering a change of mind. Why should it all end after a second referendum, or a third, or a fourth ?
I think there could only be a second referendum if (i) there was conclusive evidence of a huge change of mind (the polling is hardly definitive on this), or (ii) if there is a new offer from the EU to the British public that supersedes the offer to Cameron.
In absence of these, it seems to me that the result of the referendum stands and should be acted upon.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
The exact words were
“At the moment you, European friends, seem to think the way to keep the club together is to punish a member who leaves, not just with economic disruption, but even by breaking up the United Kingdom with a border down the Irish Sea…
“The EU was set up to protect freedom – it was the Soviet Union that stopped people leaving. The lesson from history is clear – if you turn the EU club into a prison, the desire to get out of it won’t diminish, it will grow, and we won’t be the only prisoner that wants to escape…”
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Demeaning the experiences of those who lived under the Soviet dictatorship in order to promote a leadership bid requires a special kind of self-absorption.
I suspect the Jeremy Hunt comment is just something to distract Tory members from May saying she was prepared to compromise even further from the Chequers position.
Pedant mode, but didn't she refuse to say there wouldn't be any more concessions?
Is a decision one makes meant to last for ever - no opportunity for a change of mind ? If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ? Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ? Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise. Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ? How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
So, if there was a peoples vote and the result were overturned - when can we ask for best of 3?
Whenever Parliament approves it. Simples.
Of course remainers wouldn't claim that a second referendum if it went their way was the end of it... no sireeee
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
It is true that democratically elected European leaders should be used to Tory politicians comparing to murderous tyrants by now.
Not quite where I was going, but the point is valid nonetheless - if deals were to be made or broken off the back of the kind of playing to the crowd rhetoric you get at party conferences, then no deals would ever get made and neither we or the EU are the countries and institution we pretend to be. I simply find it demeaning to think that experienced politicians and bureaucrats have their actions solely determined by such political talk. I don't doubt individual personalities can help, when locked in smokey rooms trying to deal, but when Macron talks tough to his people, or Hunt to those he is pitching to the leadership of, or Barnier when standing up for those who appointed him, am I to believe the other side, whoever it is, react like children, without understanding of how politics works, of why Hunt, or Macron, or whoever, made the comments they made? That they are truly stunned by such things, and would discard everything as a result? (Leaving aside, again, those making a big deal of it will claim we aren't getting anything)
I can easily see Hunt having a conversation with some EU foreign minister tomorrow being all 'Saw my speech? Yeah, a bit strong, but you know how it is'. That might not be the case of course, but any wailing that this is a disaster seems to me to ignore the context in which remarks like this occur, and at worse are only ever inadvisable, not disastrous. Not to belabour the point again that those pushing the disaster line seriously undermine what is usually their other argument about the rationality of the EU in its positions, which would not therefore be influenced by such things.
And I stress I don't even like that kind of talk. I understand it particularly from someone pitching to be leader and at a party conference, but it is not how I would like things to be conducted. But histrionics are no more appropriate from leavers or remainers, or tories or labour, or really anyone.
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
Any attack on the EU will be silenced
I believe those drawing EU pensions are not allowed to show any dissent against the project
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
The exact words were
“At the moment you, European friends, seem to think the way to keep the club together is to punish a member who leaves, not just with economic disruption, but even by breaking up the United Kingdom with a border down the Irish Sea…
“The EU was set up to protect freedom – it was the Soviet Union that stopped people leaving. The lesson from history is clear – if you turn the EU club into a prison, the desire to get out of it won’t diminish, it will grow, and we won’t be the only prisoner that wants to escape…”
I am not alone in thinking Hunt's comments are anything but measured...
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Demeaning the experiences of those who lived under the Soviet dictatorship in order to promote a leadership bid requires a special kind of self-absorption.
We’ve had years of Leavers comparing the EU to Nazi Germany and the EUSSR is an old trope of Europhobes. Extreme hyperbole has been normalised.
It is true that democratically elected European leaders should be used to Tory politicians comparing to murderous tyrants by now.
Not quite where I was going, but the point is valid nonetheless - if deals were to be made or broken off the back of the kind of playing to the crowd rhetoric you get at party conferences, then no deals would ever get made and neither we or the EU are the countries and institution we pretend to be. I simply find it demeaning to think that experienced politicians and bureaucrats have their actions solely determined by such political talk. I don't doubt individual personalities can help, when locked in smokey rooms trying to deal, but when Macron talks tough to his people, or Hunt to those he is pitching to the leadership of, or Barnier when standing up for those who appointed him, am I to believe the other side, whoever it is, react like children, without understanding of how politics works, of why Hunt, or Macron, or whoever, made the comments they made.
I can easily see Hunt having a conversation with some EU foreign minister tomorrow being all 'Saw my speech? Yeah, a bit strong, but you know how it is'. That might not be the case of course, but any wailing that this is a disaster seems to me to ignore the context in which remarks like this occur, and at worse are only ever inadvisable, not disastrous. Not to belabour the point again that those pushing the disaster line seriously undermine what is usually their other argument about the rationality of the EU in its positions, which would not therefore be influenced by such things.
It’s not just the politicians who hear and read these words. Their electorates see them, too. Today the British foreign secretary told the people of the Baltic states that the EU they jouned voluntarily is like the Soviet Union that conquered them, took away their freedom and subjugated them for 50 years. That is not helpful to British interests. I may be wrong, but I don’t recall any EU leader ever comparing the UK to a murderous tyranny.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Demeaning the experiences of those who lived under the Soviet dictatorship in order to promote a leadership bid requires a special kind of self-absorption.
We’ve had years of Leavers comparing the EU to Nazi Germany and the EUSSR is an old trope of Europhobes. Extreme hyperbole has been normalised.
It is true that democratically elected European leaders should be used to Tory politicians comparing to murderous tyrants by now.
Not quite where I was going, but the point is valid nonetheless - if deals were to be made or broken off the back of the kind of playing to the crowd rhetoric you get at party conferences, then no deals would ever get made and neither we or the EU are the countries and institution we pretend to be. I simply find it demeaning to think that experienced politicians and bureaucrats have their actions solely determined by such political talk. I don't doubt individual personalities can help, when locked in smokey rooms trying to deal, but when Macron talks tough to his people, or Hunt to those he is pitching to the leadership of, or Barnier when standing up for those who appointed him, am I to believe the other side, whoever it is, react like children, without understanding of how politics works, of why Hunt, or Macron, or whoever, made the comments they made.
I can easily see Hunt having a conversation with some EU foreign minister tomorrow being all 'Saw my speech? Yeah, a bit strong, but you know how it is'. That might not be the case of course, but any wailing that this is a disaster seems to me to ignore the context in which remarks like this occur, and at worse are only ever inadvisable, not disastrous. Not to belabour the point again that those pushing the disaster line seriously undermine what is usually their other argument about the rationality of the EU in its positions, which would not therefore be influenced by such things.
It’s not just the politicians who hear and read these words. Their electorates see them, too. Today the British foreign secretary told the people of the Baltic states that the EU they jouned voluntarily is like the Soviet Union that conquered them and took away their freedom. That is not helpful to British interests. I may be wrong, but I don’t recall any EU leader ever comparing the UK to a murderous tyranny.
More pedant mode, but did he actually say they were like the EU? I thought he was saying there was a lesson from history.
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
Any attack on the EU will be silenced
I believe those drawing EU pensions are not allowed to show any dissent against the project
Correct, they are not.
What a club eh?
What rot. Nigel Farage will be drawing his in due course. (He’s never hated the EU enough to give back his diamonds.)
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Demeaning the experiences of those who lived under the Soviet dictatorship in order to promote a leadership bid requires a special kind of self-absorption.
We’ve had years of Leavers comptaring the EU to Nazi Germany and the EUSSR is an old trope of Europhobes. Extreme hyperbole has been normalised.
By both sides
No, comparing the EU to Nazi Germany and the EUSSR label has been the exclusive preserve of Leavers. They have come to believe their own mad rhetoric.
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
Any attack on the EU will be silenced
I believe those drawing EU pensions are not allowed to show any dissent against the project
Correct, they are not.
What a club eh?
What rot. Nigel Farage will be drawing his in due course. (He’s never hated the EU enough to give back his diamonds.)
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Demeaning the experiences of those who lived under the Soviet dictatorship in order to promote a leadership bid requires a special kind of self-absorption.
We’ve had years of Leavers comptaring the EU to Nazi Germany and the EUSSR is an old trope of Europhobes. Extreme hyperbole has been normalised.
By both sides
No, comparing the EU to Nazi Germany and the EUSSR label has been the exclusive preserve of Leavers. They have come to believe their own mad rhetoric.
Sigh, stop being a pedantic arse
You are as guilty of extreme hyperbole as anyone else on here.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
Well, his speech has certainly provoked a Marmite reaction. Clearly he's more interested in progressing his leadership chances than progressing a sensible Brexit at the moment.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
Well, his speech has certainly provoked a Marmite reaction. Clearly he's more interested in progressing his leadership chances than progressing a sensible Brexit at the moment.
Not sure. I think this is part of the organised and coordinated attack on Boris. More to come from Ruth Davidson and others including a searing attack on him tomorrow by Hammond.
Suspect this is an attempt to make space for TM to get a deal in the next six weeks. No deal is off the table and the choice will be TM deal and if that fails a second referendum
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I think your figures are mis-dated. The population of Latvia was 2.6 million in 2001.
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Well of course not but nothing will placate them other then staying in
Indeed. And European leaders, not least Angela Merkel who actually lived the first part of her life in the Soviet prison-country of East Germany, will find it extremely offensive.
Someone fetch the smelling salts. I do not advise people to impolitic language while in high office, but if people like Merkel cannot understand and accept intemperate language while people play to the crowds of their party faithful at their own conferences, then I would be very surprised indeed. Who are these weakling EU leaders people seem to see who get all aflutter at even mild comments from our politicians?
Any attack on the EU will be silenced
I believe those drawing EU pensions are not allowed to show any dissent against the project
Correct, they are not.
What a club eh?
What rot. Nigel Farage will be drawing his in due course. (He’s never hated the EU enough to give back his diamonds.)
Yes, rot, as my Nigel Farage example shows. Try reading beyond the url and you’ll see it’s a nothing story made up by the Taxpayers Alliance, an organisation that’s far more shadowy than the EU.
And while we are on the subject of Latvia, the EU is causing Latvia to disappear much more efficiently than anything the Soviets ever did.
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I think your figures are mis-dated. The population of Latvia was 2.6 million in 2001.
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
No we do not feel improsoned.
We can leave, and indeed will be doing so in six months, but when we do we lose the benefits of membership. That is not a prison, at least not like one I know. More like a hotel, and when you leave you lose access to the room and facilities. It really is not difficult to understand.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
Well, his speech has certainly provoked a Marmite reaction. Clearly he's more interested in progressing his leadership chances than progressing a sensible Brexit at the moment.
As usual the Tories put their own personal and party interests ahead of the national interest.
Hunts speech will make European leaders less likely to agree a good Brexit deal but hey, it's helped his career in the party, the future of the UK is a secondary issue.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Well of course not but nothing will placate them other then staying in
You’re losing the plot, Big G. Salzburg has made you crackers.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
Well, his speech has certainly provoked a Marmite reaction. Clearly he's more interested in progressing his leadership chances than progressing a sensible Brexit at the moment.
As usual the Tories put their own personal and party interests ahead of the national interest.
Hunts speech will make European leaders less likely to agree a good Brexit deal but hey, it's helped his career in the party, the future of the UK is a secondary issue.
I'm going to hazard a guess here, but I suspect that Hunt's speech made zero difference as to whether or not a good deal will be reached.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Anyway Hunt's speech will be forgotten by Wednesday since Theresa's will be getting all the headlines... but will they be the sort of headlines she's looking for?
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
No we do not feel improsoned.
We can leave, and indeed will be doing so in six months, but when we do we lose the benefits of membership. That is not a prison, at least not like one I know. More like a hotel, and when you leave you lose access to the room and facilities. It really is not difficult to understand.
Abusing the Northern Ireland border has made this a sham on the EU side. I'd have sympathy for what you've written if it wasn't for that.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
If Scotland had voted for independence, the rUK would have sought the best deal for the rUK. And all the stuff Salmond, Sturgeon and co said during the referendum campaign would have been shown to have been nonsense. That’s pretty much where we are with Brexit.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
No we do not feel improsoned.
We can leave, and indeed will be doing so in six months, but when we do we lose the benefits of membership. That is not a prison, at least not like one I know. More like a hotel, and when you leave you lose access to the room and facilities. It really is not difficult to understand.
The trouble with mentioning 'hotel', is that we are straight back onto the 'Hotel California' meme: you can checkout but you can never leave.
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Well of course not but nothing will placate them other then staying in
You’re losing the plot, Big G. Salzburg has made you crackers.
I have not lost the plot but may say things you are not too hapy with.
I am clear on my position. It is TM deal and if voted down a second referendum will follow. No deal will never get through the HOC
However, I have no love whatsoever for the EU and do want to leave with a deal that protects Airbus and the car industry and does not put a border in the Irish sea
Jeremy Hunt’s remarks today were a gaffe plain and simple. Un-Prime-Ministerial.
No - they were measured and correct and nothing he hasn't said before
You may not like them of course
How can you say that comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is 'measured and correct' ?!
Check out what he actually said as in the next post by Floater
Some people right now only want to see and hear what might serve their purposes.
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
It is accurate. I listened to it
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
More like a naked pitch for some of the membership. This is the Tory conference. As with all conferences, half the content of any speeches is directed at the membership not the public.
This was directed at both and would be popular by both
It's not going to be popular with the Remain half of the public Big_G - you can surely see that?
Why not? You think the Remain half of the public want to be imprisoned?
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
If Scotland had voted for independence, the rUK would have sought the best deal for the rUK. And all the stuff Salmond, Sturgeon and co said during the referendum campaign would have been shown to have been nonsense. That’s pretty much where we are with Brexit.
That's fine. But we wouldn't try and annex a part of Scotland as the EU is doing with NI.
I have no qualms with the EU not honouring Boris's pledges but they're playing with fire abusing Northern Ireland and not respecting that it is an indivisible part of the UK.
Comments
Where will be the celebration of the other 60% take place? as part of the Festival? or outside pelting it with rotten tomatoes?
If so - why do we have General Elections every 5 years (or sooner) ?
Should the first ballot you cast determine what governement remains in office for the rest of your life ?
Should the first person you marry have to remain your partner for ever ? The law maintains otherwise.
Are you allowed to re-consider whether 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' are the best band ever ?
How long must a view be held ?
I tend to admire folk who change their minds - and are able to explain why.
Hands up if you have never changed your mind about anything.
If people have changed their mind about leaving the EU - should they not have the chance to express that in another referendum ?
In short - how long should decisions (about anything) last ?
https://twitter.com/baibabraze/status/1046442294684123139?s=21
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/30/spend-foreign-aid-budget-british-peoples-priorities-save-elephants/
There is far more to be proud of in Britain than Toryism. A "Festival of Britain" for the 40% will be rightly mocked.
Nicht wahr?
I believe those drawing EU pensions are not allowed to show any dissent against the project
Perhaps Hunt is as crap as Foreign Sec as Boris after all.
You may not like them of course
I think there could only be a second referendum if (i) there was conclusive evidence of a huge change of mind (the polling is hardly definitive on this), or (ii) if there is a new offer from the EU to the British public that supersedes the offer to Cameron.
In absence of these, it seems to me that the result of the referendum stands and should be acted upon.
You may not like them of course
“At the moment you, European friends, seem to think the way to keep the club together is to punish a member who leaves, not just with economic disruption, but even by breaking up the United Kingdom with a border down the Irish Sea…
“The EU was set up to protect freedom – it was the Soviet Union that stopped people leaving. The lesson from history is clear – if you turn the EU club into a prison, the desire to get out of it won’t diminish, it will grow, and we won’t be the only prisoner that wants to escape…”
In 1996, Latvia’s population stood at 2.6 million. At the start of 2016, it was 1.95 million.
That is a 25 per cent drop in population in twenty years.
I cannot understand how a country that has suffered such a precipitous drop in its own population has only taken in 622 migrants as of 2018. And Latvia is busy building its own anti-migration Fence.
What will be left of Latvia in another twenty years in the EU ?
I can easily see Hunt having a conversation with some EU foreign minister tomorrow being all 'Saw my speech? Yeah, a bit strong, but you know how it is'. That might not be the case of course, but any wailing that this is a disaster seems to me to ignore the context in which remarks like this occur, and at worse are only ever inadvisable, not disastrous. Not to belabour the point again that those pushing the disaster line seriously undermine what is usually their other argument about the rationality of the EU in its positions, which would not therefore be influenced by such things.
And I stress I don't even like that kind of talk. I understand it particularly from someone pitching to be leader and at a party conference, but it is not how I would like things to be conducted. But histrionics are no more appropriate from leavers or remainers, or tories or labour, or really anyone.
Good night all.
What a club eh?
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/1046508154006196224
They’ve had their department divided into three.
Doesn’t reflect well on those who ran it...
It seems to me to be fair comment (if the transcript of his words I produced below is correct)
Daily Mail fronts searing attack on Boris by Hammond
Maybe dead cat to get Boris off the headlines
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/4996440/Lord-Mandelson-must-remain-loyal-to-EU-to-guarantee-pension.html
You are as guilty of extreme hyperbole as anyone else on here.
If the Scots had voted to leave as much as the English might regret it overall we would have respected and facilitated their choice. And the No backing Scots would expect the nations choice to be implemented however remorseful.
Suspect this is an attempt to make space for TM to get a deal in the next six weeks. No deal is off the table and the choice will be TM deal and if that fails a second referendum
Part of the reason is low fertility rate at 1.65, considerably below replacement, but also there is migration. Migration is highest for ethnic Russians, and also their fertility rate is lower. Latvia is becoming more ethnically Latvian as a result:
https://www.eesti.ca/ethnic-russians-declining-in-number-more-rapidly-than-latvians-in-latvia-expert-says/article46779
Number of Latvians and Russians is both decreasing, just one is faster than the other.
We can leave, and indeed will be doing so in six months, but when we do we lose the benefits of membership. That is not a prison, at least not like one I know. More like a hotel, and when you leave you lose access to the room and facilities. It really is not difficult to understand.
Hunts speech will make European leaders less likely to agree a good Brexit deal but hey, it's helped his career in the party, the future of the UK is a secondary issue.
Salzburg has made you crackers.
Don’t worry, Brexit turns everyone mad eventually.
We're driving down to Seville, Cordoba and Granada over the next few days (where the forecast is 30 deg and sunshine every day!) , so no PB for me for the next week or so.
Have fun all!
https://twitter.com/JonnElledge/status/1046441422952550406
He needs to say this from dawn till dusk.
I am clear on my position. It is TM deal and if voted down a second referendum will follow. No deal will never get through the HOC
However, I have no love whatsoever for the EU and do want to leave with a deal that protects Airbus and the car industry and does not put a border in the Irish sea
I have no qualms with the EU not honouring Boris's pledges but they're playing with fire abusing Northern Ireland and not respecting that it is an indivisible part of the UK.