This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
How will Labour know when they have reached the point "can't get an election" and should start "campaigning for a public vote on the terms of Brexit"?
Edit: "can't get an election" needed careful typing
The argument that "Labour don't have the votes in Parliament to trigger an election, so therefore they should support a second referendum" is the most baffling of all. In case people haven't noticed, even if the leadership came out in support of a second referendum, they would be no closer (arguably further away) from getting the votes for that in Parliament than for a vote of no confidence...
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
Socialists always want to repeat the same mistakes whilst claiming it will be different this time
How will Labour know when they have reached the point "can't get an election" and should start "campaigning for a public vote on the terms of Brexit"?
Edit: "can't get an election" needed careful typing
The argument that "Labour don't have the votes in Parliament to trigger an election, so therefore they should support a second referendum" is the most baffling of all. In case people haven't noticed, they are no closer (arguably further away) from getting the votes for a second referendum than for a vote of no confidence, even if the leadership supported it...
But surely it is just about political positioning, not actually delivering a GE or a referendum, which is why the motion seeks to give the impression Labour will try both somehow?
Quite possibly, he certainly knows how to make engaging Sunday night drama
Crap ending, though. Started well, then faded.
I think it faded a bit after Keeley Hawes was killed off
Spoiler alert:
And plot holes. The tape is presumably securing his thumb down to the switch, otherwise it would have triggered when he was out cold. It didn’t, so why does he have to maintain pressure on it while conscious? The entire scene appears to disobey the laws of physics.
"Angela Merkel was struggling to avert a full-blown crisis inside her governing coalition over the weekend, as party leaders continued to feud over the fate of the head of Germany’s domestic intelligence service.
The chancellor and leader of the centre-right Christian Democratic Union was later on Sunday expected to hold emergency talks with the heads of the Social Democratic SPD and the Christian Social Union, the CDU’s Bavarian sister party."
How will Labour know when they have reached the point "can't get an election" and should start "campaigning for a public vote on the terms of Brexit"?
Edit: "can't get an election" needed careful typing
The argument that "Labour don't have the votes in Parliament to trigger an election, so therefore they should support a second referendum" is the most baffling of all. In case people haven't noticed, they are no closer (arguably further away) from getting the votes for a second referendum than for a vote of no confidence, even if the leadership supported it...
But surely it is just about political positioning, not actually delivering a GE or a referendum, which is why the motion seeks to give the impression Labour will try both somehow?
I think it's about political positioning from the leadership. But I'm talking about some of the ultra-Remainers like Chuka Umunna and the "FBPE" crowd on Twitter: when Corbyn and McDonnell say they want a general election to settle the Brexit debate, the FBPE-ers respond with "but we can't get an election, Tory MPs would never vote for it, so support a second referendum instead", as if that wouldn't run into the exact same problems of parliamentary arithmetic....
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
Does Ireland do more trade with N Ireland than with mainland UK? I assume if their more valuable trade is with the mainland then pushing the UK into a CETA type deal is a non-optimal outcome for them.
Quite possibly, he certainly knows how to make engaging Sunday night drama
Crap ending, though. Started well, then faded.
I think it faded a bit after Keeley Hawes was killed off
Spoiler alert:
And plot holes. The tape is presumably securing his thumb down to the switch, otherwise it would have triggered when he was out cold. It didn’t, so why does he have to maintain pressure on it while conscious? The entire scene appears to disobey the laws of physics.
Indeed, and didn't they get the same type of bomb of off the train bomber woman in Episode 1? So why so difficult this time?
Quite possibly, he certainly knows how to make engaging Sunday night drama
Crap ending, though. Started well, then faded.
I think it faded a bit after Keeley Hawes was killed off
Spoiler alert:
And plot holes. The tape is presumably securing his thumb down to the switch, otherwise it would have triggered when he was out cold. It didn’t, so why does he have to maintain pressure on it while conscious? The entire scene appears to disobey the laws of physics.
Indeed, and didn't they get the same type of bomb of off the train bomber woman in Episode 1? So why so difficult this time?
All of a sudden my complaints about the pylons being the wrong shape in "Star Trek: Discovery" seem so much more sane...
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
No.
Currently the EU are insisting that ANY option must include leaving NI inside the Customs Union as part of the backstop. Whether its Canada or EEA or any other model they're not varying on that.
We're saying we won't agree to that no matter what. So something has to give.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
10% of nothing is nothing
Is that the same mulitnationals who were going to abandon Britain if we introduced a minimum wage 20 years ago?
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
I believe the backstop only applies if no deal is reached?
No, the backstop applies if any deal that is reached would result in the imposition of a border between north and south Ireland, ie CETA would result in a hard border and so would activate the backstop.
A backstop agreement has to be in the agreement if we want any Exit Deal.
The Chequers dream was that a frictionless enough trade agreement between the EU and the whole of the UK could be signed and any hard borders avoided.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
I believe the backstop only applies if no deal is reached?
No, the backstop applies if any deal that is reached would result in the imposition of a border between north and south Ireland, ie CETA would result in a hard border and so would activate the backstop.
A backstop agreement has to be in the agreement if we want any Exit Deal.
The Chequers dream was that a frictionless enough trade agreement between the EU and the whole of the UK could be signed and any hard borders avoided.
It's a ridiculous situation. Both sides say they don't want a hard border, yet are working their hardest to ensure it happens.
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
No.
Currently the EU are insisting that ANY option must include leaving NI inside the Customs Union as part of the backstop. Whether its Canada or EEA or any other model they're not varying on that.
We're saying we won't agree to that no matter what. So something has to give.
In which case Canada is no more acceptable to the EU than Chequers?
(EEA would presumably resolve the issue as the whole of the UK would be in the Single Market.)
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
No.
Currently the EU are insisting that ANY option must include leaving NI inside the Customs Union as part of the backstop. Whether its Canada or EEA or any other model they're not varying on that.
We're saying we won't agree to that no matter what. So something has to give.
In which case Canada is no more acceptable to the EU than Chequers?
(EEA would presumably resolve the issue as the whole of the UK would be in the Single Market.)
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
10% of nothing is nothing
Is that the same mulitnationals who were going to abandon Britain if we introduced a minimum wage 20 years ago?
It is very easy to move your corporate structure around in a globalized world and requires minimal changes.
It is nonsense comparison with moving your whole business and all employees. Furthermore, the minimum wage was introduced at a sensible level / structure.
We are seeing it with Brexit preparations, various banks have altered corporate structures to be on the safe side, but in terms of number of employees being shifted it is normally a few dozen.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
Sweden actually
Sweden is not a socialist country. Much of their public services and welfare is very market oriented.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
10% of nothing is nothing
Is that the same mulitnationals who were going to abandon Britain if we introduced a minimum wage 20 years ago?
It is very easy to move your corporate structure around in a globalized world and requires minimal changes. It is nonsense comparison with moving your whole business and all employees. Furthermore, the minimum wage was introduced at a sensible level / structure.
£500 per employee is not a sensible level.What would you suggest £1 per year
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
10% of nothing is nothing
Is that the same mulitnationals who were going to abandon Britain if we introduced a minimum wage 20 years ago?
It is very easy to move your corporate structure around in a globalized world and requires minimal changes. It is nonsense comparison with moving your whole business and all employees. Furthermore, the minimum wage was introduced at a sensible level / structure.
£500 per employee is not a sensible level.What would you suggest £1 per year
I genuinely have no idea what you are trying to say.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
Sweden actually
Sweden is not a socialist country. Much of their public services and welfare is very market oriented.
But this is where this idea is from according to Labour
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
No.
Currently the EU are insisting that ANY option must include leaving NI inside the Customs Union as part of the backstop. Whether its Canada or EEA or any other model they're not varying on that.
We're saying we won't agree to that no matter what. So something has to give.
In which case Canada is no more acceptable to the EU than Chequers?
(EEA would presumably resolve the issue as the whole of the UK would be in the Single Market.)
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
I believe the backstop only applies if no deal is reached?
No, the backstop applies if any deal that is reached would result in the imposition of a border between north and south Ireland, ie CETA would result in a hard border and so would activate the backstop.
A backstop agreement has to be in the agreement if we want any Exit Deal.
The Chequers dream was that a frictionless enough trade agreement between the EU and the whole of the UK could be signed and any hard borders avoided.
It's a ridiculous situation. Both sides say they don't want a hard border, yet are working their hardest to ensure it happens.
The EU only cares about the hardness of the border between NI and Ireland and as they have us over a barrel regarding the damage No Deal would do to us, they'll get what they want.
Given the protectionist tendencies of some of the Eu member states and their enthusiasm at the business they will steal from the UK, i think they are quite up for a hard UK/EU border. Remember, it's only the UK that's been talking about frictionless borders.
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
I believe the backstop only applies if no deal is reached?
No, the backstop applies if any deal that is reached would result in the imposition of a border between north and south Ireland, ie CETA would result in a hard border and so would activate the backstop.
A backstop agreement has to be in the agreement if we want any Exit Deal.
The Chequers dream was that a frictionless enough trade agreement between the EU and the whole of the UK could be signed and any hard borders avoided.
It's a ridiculous situation. Both sides say they don't want a hard border, yet are working their hardest to ensure it happens.
The EU only cares about the hardness of the border between NI and Ireland and as they have us over a barrel regarding the damage No Deal would do to us, they'll get what they want.
Given the protectionist tendencies of some of the Eu member states and their enthusiasm at the business they will steal from the UK, i think they are quite up for a hard UK/EU border. Remember, it's only the UK that's been talking about frictionless borders.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
10% of nothing is nothing
Is that the same mulitnationals who were going to abandon Britain if we introduced a minimum wage 20 years ago?
It is very easy to move your corporate structure around in a globalized world and requires minimal changes. It is nonsense comparison with moving your whole business and all employees. Furthermore, the minimum wage was introduced at a sensible level / structure.
£500 per employee is not a sensible level.What would you suggest £1 per year
I genuinely have no idea what you are trying to say.
That £500 maximum dividend per employee is a sensible pledge and will not cause disinvestment.
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
I believe the backstop only applies if no deal is reached?
No, the backstop applies if any deal that is reached would result in the imposition of a border between north and south Ireland, ie CETA would result in a hard border and so would activate the backstop.
A backstop agreement has to be in the agreement if we want any Exit Deal.
The Chequers dream was that a frictionless enough trade agreement between the EU and the whole of the UK could be signed and any hard borders avoided.
It's a ridiculous situation. Both sides say they don't want a hard border, yet are working their hardest to ensure it happens.
The EU only cares about the hardness of the border between NI and Ireland and as they have us over a barrel regarding the damage No Deal would do to us, they'll get what they want.
Given the protectionist tendencies of some of the Eu member states and their enthusiasm at the business they will steal from the UK, i think they are quite up for a hard UK/EU border. Remember, it's only the UK that's been talking about frictionless borders.
Put the hard border in the Irish Sea (and damn the DUP), or along the Cheviots if Scotland decides to secede, and that will be acceptable to the EU and most people in GB.
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
I believe the backstop only applies if no deal is reached?
No, the backstop applies if any deal that is reached would result in the imposition of a border between north and south Ireland, ie CETA would result in a hard border and so would activate the backstop.
A backstop agreement has to be in the agreement if we want any Exit Deal.
The Chequers dream was that a frictionless enough trade agreement between the EU and the whole of the UK could be signed and any hard borders avoided.
It's a ridiculous situation. Both sides say they don't want a hard border, yet are working their hardest to ensure it happens.
The EU only cares about the hardness of the border between NI and Ireland and as they have us over a barrel regarding the damage No Deal would do to us, they'll get what they want.
Given the protectionist tendencies of some of the Eu member states and their enthusiasm at the business they will steal from the UK, i think they are quite up for a hard UK/EU border. Remember, it's only the UK that's been talking about frictionless borders.
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
No.
Currently the EU are insisting that ANY option must include leaving NI inside the Customs Union as part of the backstop. Whether its Canada or EEA or any other model they're not varying on that.
We're saying we won't agree to that no matter what. So something has to give.
In which case Canada is no more acceptable to the EU than Chequers?
(EEA would presumably resolve the issue as the whole of the UK would be in the Single Market.)
Which is why there is talk today of May calling a general election in November so she can get a majority for a Canada Deal from UK voters and agree no hard border/ NI stays in a Customs Union without being brought down by the DUP.
That would then also suit the EU who could thus sign off on the Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period, the terms of the Canada FTA to be negotiated in the Transition
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
10% of nothing is nothing
Is that the same mulitnationals who were going to abandon Britain if we introduced a minimum wage 20 years ago?
It is very easy to move your corporate structure around in a globalized world and requires minimal changes. It is nonsense comparison with moving your whole business and all employees. Furthermore, the minimum wage was introduced at a sensible level / structure.
£500 per employee is not a sensible level.What would you suggest £1 per year
I genuinely have no idea what you are trying to say.
That £500 maximum dividend per employee is a sensible pledge and will not cause disinvestment.
The dividend amount is irrelevant. It is about how much of your company is taken out of investors hands without their control (it is different from companies choosing to offer a share scheme).
I believe it is trivial for companies to avoid in a globalized world and as we see with the likes of Starbucks are very nimble when it comes to these things.
"Any dividends above that amount (£500) would be skimmed off by the government for a “social fund” to help pay for public services. the windfall for the government from dividends over 500 pounds per employee would amount to 2.1 billion pounds after five years."
So, its another tax on doing business.
So on Day one of conference, what's that two big tax increases already and we haven't even got started.
"Any dividends above that amount (£500) would be skimmed off by the government for a “social fund” to help pay for public services."
So, its another tax on doing business.
So on Day one of conference, what's that two big tax increases already and we haven't even got started.
Did you expect anything else?
No, as I said down thread, there is however a change in rhetoric. Rather than trying to downplay tax rises as they did at the last GE, it seems emboldened it make it clear what is coming.
Only an idiot would believe McDonnell's claim at the last GE that if he got access to the levers of power only the super rich would pay.
This relates to a Russian controlled shell company apparently buying surplus Finnish navy vessels and properties next to strategic maritime lanes and constructing helipads and shelters cut to bedrock.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
All the multinational companies based here now, won't be in the future. Big sensible British companies will move their corporate bases elsewhere.
10% of nothing is nothing
Is that the same mulitnationals who were going to abandon Britain if we introduced a minimum wage 20 years ago?
It is very easy to move your corporate structure around in a globalized world and requires minimal changes.
It is nonsense comparison with moving your whole business and all employees. Furthermore, the minimum wage was introduced at a sensible level / structure.
We are seeing it with Brexit preparations, various banks have altered corporate structures to be on the safe side, but in terms of number of employees being shifted it is normally a few dozen.
Same with Insurance markets and to an extent brokers
I know of one Broker who shifted hq to London, might they want to go back stateside if profits are reduced?
"Any dividends above that amount (£500) would be skimmed off by the government for a “social fund” to help pay for public services."
So, its another tax on doing business.
So on Day one of conference, what's that two big tax increases already and we haven't even got started.
Did you expect anything else?
No, as I said down thread, there is however a change in rhetoric. Rather than trying to downplay tax rises as they did at the last GE, it seems emboldened it make it clear what is coming.
Only an idiot would believe McDonnell's claim at the last GE that if he got access to the levers of power only the super rich would pay.
He is just redefining super rich as anyone earning minimum wage.
This is only the start of the idiocy that awaits us if McDonnell gets his hand on the tiller. Venezuela and Zimbabwe appear to be the models of choice.
Sweden actually
But that is where socialism ends up, in destroyed economies and lives
Regarding all this noise around the Canada or Canada+ option...
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
Canada took 7 years to negotiate, we have perhaps seven weeks before it would need ratification.
Canada means Blind Brexit.
Disingenuous. The vast bulk of that time was negotiating equivalence. Our membership of the single market (as we are now) means at this point we are 100% compliant at 100% of everything. We don’t need to have negotiated the detail, just the clear direction for the withdrawal agreement to be agreed.
I see shagger Woods has just won the golf. Never been a fanboy of his, but you have to give him some begrudging respect for the determination to come back from all the injuries and terrible form, when money is absolutely no object to him.
I usually get round to watching the latest TV dramas about 25 years after they're first shown. For example, last year I watched the original Twin Peaks series and a couple of weeks ago I watched the British version of House Of Cards for the first time.
Hope you enjoyed House of Cards - it has dated a bit, but Richardson was sublime as FU
It was rather dated because 99% of the politicians are old-ish white men. Susannah Harker was very nice though.
I usually get round to watching the latest TV dramas about 25 years after they're first shown. For example, last year I watched the original Twin Peaks series and a couple of weeks ago I watched the British version of House Of Cards for the first time.
I quite recommend "Back in Time for the Factory" as an interesting piece of working class feminist social history.
It is set in the Welsh Valleys, but reminds me of when I first moved to Leicester and it was full of clothing factories.
Comments
Have a pleasant evenings rest everyone
Good night folks
What could possibly go wrong?
And plot holes. The tape is presumably securing his thumb down to the switch, otherwise it would have triggered when he was out cold. It didn’t, so why does he have to maintain pressure on it while conscious? The entire scene appears to disobey the laws of physics.
The chancellor and leader of the centre-right Christian Democratic Union was later on Sunday expected to hold emergency talks with the heads of the Social Democratic SPD and the Christian Social Union, the CDU’s Bavarian sister party."
https://www.ft.com/content/98a0b1cc-bf21-11e8-95b1-d36dfef1b89a
Do I understand it correctly that such an option would necessarily leave NI inside the Customs Union, with a customs border in the Irish Sea?
10% of nothing is nothing
Currently the EU are insisting that ANY option must include leaving NI inside the Customs Union as part of the backstop. Whether its Canada or EEA or any other model they're not varying on that.
We're saying we won't agree to that no matter what. So something has to give.
A backstop agreement has to be in the agreement if we want any Exit Deal.
The Chequers dream was that a frictionless enough trade agreement between the EU and the whole of the UK could be signed and any hard borders avoided.
(EEA would presumably resolve the issue as the whole of the UK would be in the Single Market.)
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/michel-barnier-killer-graphic-brexit-theresa-mays-red-lines-on-bespoke-model_uk_5a39497ce4b0fc99878f2058
It is nonsense comparison with moving your whole business and all employees. Furthermore, the minimum wage was introduced at a sensible level / structure.
We are seeing it with Brexit preparations, various banks have altered corporate structures to be on the safe side, but in terms of number of employees being shifted it is normally a few dozen.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/23/bugged-anti-chequers-deal-brexiteers-fear-security-services/
Given the protectionist tendencies of some of the Eu member states and their enthusiasm at the business they will steal from the UK, i think they are quite up for a hard UK/EU border. Remember, it's only the UK that's been talking about frictionless borders.
Canada means Blind Brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-history
That would then also suit the EU who could thus sign off on the Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period, the terms of the Canada FTA to be negotiated in the Transition
I believe it is trivial for companies to avoid in a globalized world and as we see with the likes of Starbucks are very nimble when it comes to these things.
"Any dividends above that amount (£500) would be skimmed off by the government for a “social fund” to help pay for public services. the windfall for the government from dividends over 500 pounds per employee would amount to 2.1 billion pounds after five years."
So, its another tax on doing business.
So on Day one of conference, what's that two big tax increases already and we haven't even got started.
https://twitter.com/gilescoren/status/1043959181508784130?s=20
Only an idiot would believe McDonnell's claim at the last GE that if he got access to the levers of power only the super rich would pay.
https://twitter.com/IlvesToomas/status/1043968030688964609
I know of one Broker who shifted hq to London, might they want to go back stateside if profits are reduced?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/23/labour-split-looms-brexit-jeremy-corbyn-backs-second-referendum/
https://twitter.com/DegenRolf/status/1043909547172253701
Con 37% -2
Lab 38% +1
LDem 9% +2
UKIP 8% +2
https://twitter.com/DegenRolf/status/1040186929176891393