If it requires the backstop how does the Cabinet roll back from May's rejection of that position? Obviously someone, probably us, will have to decide some red lines are not as red as they appeared, but that one seems hard to fudge given arguments to date.
It requires a lot of fudge to be kicked into the long long grass.
Sort of a 'temporary permanent solution' or perhaps a 'permanent temporary solution'
Great Britain really doesn't give a crap about Northern Ireland unless they start bombing the mainland.
Which means it should be easier to fudge, but everyone has identified it as an issue and the DUP need to be happy with whatever comes up, and we know how stubborn NI MPs can be.
If it requires the backstop how does the Cabinet roll back from May's rejection of that position? Obviously someone, probably us, will have to decide some red lines are not as red as they appeared, but that one seems hard to fudge given arguments to date.
May said, "I will not overturn the result of the referendum. Nor will I break up my country."
Perhaps a people's vote between those choices so it's not her decision?
Is that his official title now? Sajid Javid would probably beg to differ.
Whilst Jeremy Hunt remains my biggest winner in the next PM market (and my biggest ever winner in any bet) he will be the PM in waiting.
If this is indeed Hunt's position I can only assume TM has been persuaded by the arguments. I cannot see Hunt saying anything that TM does not agree to
And with Boris and his escalating rhetoric I am having flashbacks to when Carswell defected - the further you escalate in your description of how bad things were and how obviously bad they were as well, the more I just question why they didn't act a lot sooner and presume they either didn't think it was so bad and are exaggerating now, or are claiming they were a fool and didn't notice it was so bad.
I think Boris doesn't actually care about the EU much, he would take the opposite position if he thought it had better prospects for his political career. Funny guy, quite clever, but someone we want leading the country? I don't think so.
If it requires the backstop how does the Cabinet roll back from May's rejection of that position? Obviously someone, probably us, will have to decide some red lines are not as red as they appeared, but that one seems hard to fudge given arguments to date.
Or, we leave with no deal and tough it out until it’s clear to the EU that we’re not coming back.
They have no incentive to agree anything with us until they recognise that we’re gone for good.
Yes, I should have added 'if there is to be a deal' somewhere in my paragraph. I still think intentionally doing that is unlikely, as so many are very very desperate to avoid it, though I think it happening is counter intuitively most likely simply because we won't be able to make a deal even though we will try. Indeed, we already have tried.
Somebody earlier was pointing out it was young vs old at the Remain today vs Leave last week...A lot of young people seem to be suffering male pattern baldness very early these days.
Somebody earlier was pointing out it was young vs old at the Remain today vs Leave last week...A lot of young people seem to be suffering male pattern baldness very early these days.
If it requires the backstop how does the Cabinet roll back from May's rejection of that position? Obviously someone, probably us, will have to decide some red lines are not as red as they appeared, but that one seems hard to fudge given arguments to date.
May said, "I will not overturn the result of the referendum. Nor will I break up my country."
Perhaps a people's vote between those choices so it's not her decision?
Hard to see how we make a deal with the EU on the basis of NI breaking up, then have a referendum on breaking them up, which might not then succeed (although frankly if it got to that point I think it would), and it would have to be in that order since they surely would not agree to delay until we agree some sort of path forward to resolution. The EU couldn't accept a deal predicated on something even more uncertain than the idea May can get something through parliament.
2) How many times can Boris write an article saying Chequers is bad, I'm awesome?
Maybe Boris should dust down the "Remain article" that he wrote before he jumped the wrong way in 2016?
It amuses me that Johnson and his Brexiteer friends may well have started a process that leads to an extreme left wing government that due to Brexit has all the stabilises removed. One good thing about being in the EU is the relative stability of economic policy and of course trade.
If it is because they want 'final say' I can see why they are struggling with the drafting - it would be a nonsense to demand this one be a final say when the last one was, in this event, not allowed to be final.
I presume the real struggle is wording it so that it does not seem that Labour are overly favouring a particular option, and emphasising that Labour taking over negotiations (somehow) to get a better deal would be preferred and this is more of a backstop, as it were?
Is that a bad thing? The rich and powerful have got away with murder with the rest of us suffer. Take FTSE 100 companies for example - incompetent and poorly performing CEOs get huge pay increases while the rest get derisory pay awards.
Change is coming - suck it up my friend!
The change coming is that the people who pay for the NHS are going to magic their money out of this country the day befor Corbyn takes power.
Andrew Adonis having another break down now Len McCluskey agrees a second referendum could take place but remain will not be an option
Just wonderful
When they reach the point of arguing the wording of the question, then supporting the #peoplesvote is pretty universal.
Apart from the party in government....
The clinging on to this pathetic dream of a second referendum is really getting desparate now...
Personally, I think a #peoplesvote is not likely, but it is proving to be a useful focal point for the campaign.
I reckon Blind Brexit is the likely outcome, because of the timescale. At that point the #peoplesvote campaign will be to stay in the EEA as a stepping stone to Rejoin.
If it requires the backstop how does the Cabinet roll back from May's rejection of that position? Obviously someone, probably us, will have to decide some red lines are not as red as they appeared, but that one seems hard to fudge given arguments to date.
It requires a lot of fudge to be kicked into the long long grass.
Sort of a 'temporary permanent solution' or perhaps a 'permanent temporary solution'
Great Britain really doesn't give a crap about Northern Ireland unless they start bombing the mainland.
Disagree. People will give a deep crap if it’s framed as “hostile foreign power wants slice of your country as price of leaving “voluntary” club” after a democratic vote to do so.
My Remainer other half and rock solid Labour Remainer friend were unprintable last night in a spontaneous outburst at the EU following Salzburg. “Taking the piss”, and “making life deliberately difficult “ we’re at the mild end of the spectrum.
If it requires the backstop how does the Cabinet roll back from May's rejection of that position? Obviously someone, probably us, will have to decide some red lines are not as red as they appeared, but that one seems hard to fudge given arguments to date.
Or, we leave with no deal and tough it out until it’s clear to the EU that we’re not coming back.
They have no incentive to agree anything with us until they recognise that we’re gone for good.
The only way in which the EU will offer anything to the UK is if it benefits the EU. People like you don't seem to understand that once your out of the club it is unlikely a third country will receive any special favours.
I usually get round to watching the latest TV dramas about 25 years after they're first shown. For example, last year I watched the original Twin Peaks series and a couple of weeks ago I watched the British version of House Of Cards for the first time.
I usually get round to watching the latest TV dramas about 25 years after they're first shown. For example, last year I watched the original Twin Peaks series and a couple of weeks ago I watched the British version of House Of Cards for the first time.
Hope you enjoyed House of Cards - it has dated a bit, but Richardson was sublime as FU
2) How many times can Boris write an article saying Chequers is bad, I'm awesome?
Maybe Boris should dust down the "Remain article" that he wrote before he jumped the wrong way in 2016?
It amuses me that Johnson and his Brexiteer friends may well have started a process that leads to an extreme left wing government that due to Brexit has all the stabilises removed. One good thing about being in the EU is the relative stability of economic policy and of course trade.
The irritating thing with the Borisites and co is that they don't (openly) recognise that Brexit obviously had costs and risks attached to it. I personally thought it would be both, yet I still underestimated both, but even if plenty of regular people saw no downsides the Borisites should be smart enough, and probably are, to know that it was not about no cost or risk, but that long term that cost and risk would be worth certain gains (though again, I was probably wrong about the gains).
The funny thing is, quite a lot of them voted Labour in 2017.
The rhetoric seems to have changed.
In 2017, Labour played down tax rises, claiming will only be on the super rich etc etc etc, while the Tories were busy scaring the shit out of people that if they lose their mind their home will be taken from them.
Seems now Corbyn and McDonnell are going to be out and proud, higher taxes. It will be interesting to see how all the London folk, with their second homes in Cornwall, will like another £3k a year for starters. The main course is sure to be a hell of a lot more.
Perhaps, they will be fine with that, especially if they think Labour will stop Brexit, we will see.
At this rate chief wingnut Williamson will be unresigning for his previous council tax doubling calls
If it requires the backstop how does the Cabinet roll back from May's rejection of that position? Obviously someone, probably us, will have to decide some red lines are not as red as they appeared, but that one seems hard to fudge given arguments to date.
Or, we leave with no deal and tough it out until it’s clear to the EU that we’re not coming back.
They have no incentive to agree anything with us until they recognise that we’re gone for good.
The only way in which the EU will offer anything to the UK is if it benefits the EU. People like you don't seem to understand that once your out of the club it is unlikely a third country will receive any special favours.
People like you don't seem to understand that the EU potentially compromising on something in order to get a deal is not doing us a favour depending on what is compromised on and what they get in return, because it is a negotiation and they have openly said they'd prefer a deal as well. Some compromises won't be worth a deal, but a compromise to us to get a deal is not automatically a favour to us either, since it benefits them too.
I think, again, there needs to be some understanding on the Northern Ireland/Ireland position within Brexit. Its been used as a scare tactic and really it doesn't need to be with talk of customs posts and troops hanging around the border.
It doesn't matter if the deal is Chequers, Canada Plus or whatever, not much is going to change on the border as long as there is a free trade element.
Things like the Common Travel Area between the UK & Ireland will continue to exist, the Irish have already discussed this with the EU. . Any customs check arrangement will not occur on the NI/Ireland border and the most visual aspect to the average Joe moving north and south, i.e. checks on people, will simply not exist as they don't exist now.
Why? Because no one on any side of the negotiations could be arsed with that so they won't bother.
The funny thing is, quite a lot of them voted Labour in 2017.
Seems now Corbyn and McDonnell are going to be out and proud, higher taxes.
Good. People claim to be willing to pay more taxes to get more and better services, and should get a chance to put their money where their mouth is.
Although I suspect regular service of all parties of better services for less taxes/no more taxes/someone else will pay, will resume. It's not as though the public does not reward that sort of thing after all.
The funny thing is, quite a lot of them voted Labour in 2017.
The rhetoric seems to have changed.
In 2017, Labour played down tax rises, claiming will only be on the super rich etc etc etc, while the Tories were busy scaring the shit out of people that if they lose their mind their home will be taken from them.
Seems now Corbyn and McDonnell are going to be out and proud, higher taxes. It will be interesting to see how all the London folk, with their second homes in Cornwall, will like another £3k a year for starters. The main course is sure to be a hell of a lot more.
Perhaps, they will be fine with that, especially if they think Labour will stop Brexit, we will see.
At this rate chief wingnut Williamson will be unresigning for his previous council tax doubling calls
You go in the polling station and vote aggainst Putin's party, on the way out someone asks you which way you voted... what do you say? Surprised the exit polls weren't futher out tbh.
Despite the disputes and rhetoric, there is little political or public will in Hungary for leaving the EU.
I'd assume you'd almost have to push someone out, other than the UK, rather than have them jump. Nothing to stop people continually aggravating the EU without actually leaving it.
I see any easy dodge....foreign based holding company....shutter UK company on a regular basis, open new company, workers left with nothing. Or slightly less harsh, transferring of assets between between UK companies, meaning workers holdings are limited.
I usually get round to watching the latest TV dramas about 25 years after they're first shown. For example, last year I watched the original Twin Peaks series and a couple of weeks ago I watched the British version of House Of Cards for the first time.
I quite recommend "Back in Time for the Factory" as an interesting piece of working class feminist social history.
It is set in the Welsh Valleys, but reminds me of when I first moved to Leicester and it was full of clothing factories.
I see any easy dodge....foreign based holding company....shutter UK company on a regular basis, open new company, workers left with nothing.
Indeed - it is an attempt at a populist policy that is unravelling in seconds.
Even if it wasn't easy to avoid, think about what it says to anyone wanting to invest. Once you've established that you are okay with confiscating 10% of a company there's no reason for any business owner to think that's the limit.
I see any easy dodge....foreign based holding company....shutter UK company on a regular basis, open new company, workers left with nothing. Or slightly less harsh, transferring of assets between between UK companies, meaning workers holdings are limited.
So you are saying that "taking back control" is a deception in a globalised world?
The same Hunt who was sucking up so far to May over Chequers he was almost up her nostrils?
You mean he backed a Cabinet proposal until the facts changed and is now considering other options? Terrifying!
He backed a Cabinet proposal which he likely knew had no chance of passing, Davis and Boris can at least say they resigned beforehand as they knew it was not viable
I usually get round to watching the latest TV dramas about 25 years after they're first shown. For example, last year I watched the original Twin Peaks series and a couple of weeks ago I watched the British version of House Of Cards for the first time.
If you have a chance, watch the Alec Guinness BBC Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy. It's aged well (unlike its sequel, Smiley's People)
The same Hunt who was sucking up so far to May over Chequers he was almost up her nostrils?
You mean he backed a Cabinet proposal until the facts changed and is now considering other options? Terrifying!
He backed a Cabinet proposal which he likely knew had no chance of passing, Davis and Boris can at least say they resigned beforehand as they knew it was not viable
You are buying into their spin - they didn't resign beforehand. Or at the least Boris did not. He resigned after he had already agreed to it. His resignation letter acknowledged that, in that it was only afterwards, over the weekend, that he decided after all he couldn't do what he said he'd do at Chequers and back it.
It was extremely funny in a can't as a result suspend my disbelief kind of way.
The boys in blue gathered and standing around, and then shooting o abuse at a possible suicide attacker being perhaps the highlight.
I haven't been watching it, but it sounds like another BBC series that starts off well and then ends up total nonsense. That mcmafia one was the same, I want back the 8hrs I wasted watching that back please....although nothing compares to Westworld Season 2, I have a good mind to write to HBO and demand compensation!
The same Hunt who was sucking up so far to May over Chequers he was almost up her nostrils?
You mean he backed a Cabinet proposal until the facts changed and is now considering other options? Terrifying!
He backed a Cabinet proposal which he likely knew had no chance of passing, Davis and Boris can at least say they resigned beforehand as they knew it was not viable
You are buying into their spin - they didn't resign beforehand. Or at the least Boris did not. He resigned after he had already agreed to it. His resignation letter acknowledged that, in that it was only afterwards, over the weekend, that he decided after all he couldn't do what he said he'd do at Chequers and back it.
He still resigned after thinking it over, though it is fair to say Davis was probably the more principled of the two and is now the likely successor in waiting as a result if May goes and we move to a Canada style deal
The same Hunt who was sucking up so far to May over Chequers he was almost up her nostrils?
You mean he backed a Cabinet proposal until the facts changed and is now considering other options? Terrifying!
He backed a Cabinet proposal which he likely knew had no chance of passing, Davis and Boris can at least say they resigned beforehand as they knew it was not viable
You are buying into their spin - they didn't resign beforehand. Or at the least Boris did not. He resigned after he had already agreed to it. His resignation letter acknowledged that, in that it was only afterwards, over the weekend, that he decided after all he couldn't do what he said he'd do at Chequers and back it.
Boris proposed the toast to the PM in congratulation of Chequers. It was only when DD resigned and and Boris saw his role as chief Brexiter - the prize that explains why he chose the Brexit letter in the first place - slipping away, that he realised that self interest required a sudden U-turn. He is the most contemptible of policians.
Interestingly shortly after the referendum according to YouGov even 43% of Scots would be happy with a Canada type deal with the EU, 24% opposed, not too far off the UK as a whole where 50% supported a Canada type deal with 24% opposed.
Scots were strongly opposed to No Deal though with 48% opposed and only 25% in favour, in the UK it was closer, 32% favoured No Deal but 44% still opposed it.
It was extremely funny in a can't as a result suspend my disbelief kind of way.
The boys in blue gathered and standing around, and then shooting o abuse at a possible suicide attacker being perhaps the highlight.
I haven't been watching it, but it sounds like another BBC series that starts off well and then ends up total nonsense. That mcmafia one was the same, I want back the 8hrs I wasted watching that back please....although nothing compares to Westworld Season 2, I have a good mind to write to HBO and demand compensation!
That's it there is a good idea to begin with but only rarely can people, even the best, carry that through to a consistent and rewarding conclusion.
Recently watched The Night Of which does both those things.
The same Hunt who was sucking up so far to May over Chequers he was almost up her nostrils?
You mean he backed a Cabinet proposal until the facts changed and is now considering other options? Terrifying!
He backed a Cabinet proposal which he likely knew had no chance of passing, Davis and Boris can at least say they resigned beforehand as they knew it was not viable
You are buying into their spin - they didn't resign beforehand. Or at the least Boris did not. He resigned after he had already agreed to it. His resignation letter acknowledged that, in that it was only afterwards, over the weekend, that he decided after all he couldn't do what he said he'd do at Chequers and back it.
He still resigned after thinking it over
So not what you claimed then.
Given even you acknowledge he was the less principled of the two I am surprised you are so certain that he genuinely resigned because after thinking it through he could not back it after all. I don't discount the possibility, but given what Boris says now about Chequers and how awful and calamitous it would be (or have been), then I think the evidence suggests he is being less than truthful - he might well be right about Chequers, certainly it is dead for a reason, but if it is as bad as he says he cannot expect us to believe it took him a whole weekend to realise it, particularly when David realised it a lot sooner.
It was extremely funny in a can't as a result suspend my disbelief kind of way.
The boys in blue gathered and standing around, and then shooting o abuse at a possible suicide attacker being perhaps the highlight.
I haven't been watching it, but it sounds like another BBC series that starts off well and then ends up total nonsense. That mcmafia one was the same, I want back the 8hrs I wasted watching that back please....although nothing compares to Westworld Season 2, I have a good mind to write to HBO and demand compensation!
That's it there is a good idea to begin with but only rarely can people, even the best, carry that through to a consistent and rewarding conclusion.
Recently watched The Night Of which does both those things.
Part of the problem is nobody wants to do a one season show. Westworld should have been one season, Taboo as well and I am sure McMafia could have had a much better ending if they didn't have to crowbar a load of plot twists in order to enable the story to continue.
It was extremely funny in a can't as a result suspend my disbelief kind of way.
The boys in blue gathered and standing around, and then shooting o abuse at a possible suicide attacker being perhaps the highlight.
I haven't been watching it, but it sounds like another BBC series that starts off well and then ends up total nonsense. That mcmafia one was the same, I want back the 8hrs I wasted watching that back please....although nothing compares to Westworld Season 2, I have a good mind to write to HBO and demand compensation!
That's it there is a good idea to begin with but only rarely can people, even the best, carry that through to a consistent and rewarding conclusion.
Recently watched The Night Of which does both those things.
Part of the problem is nobody wants to do a one season show. Westworld should have been one season, Taboo as well and I am sure McMafia could have had a much better ending if they didn't have to crowbar a load of plot twists in order to enable the story to continue.
That is one of the many attraction of Korean drama - most of their shows are one season only.
It was extremely funny in a can't as a result suspend my disbelief kind of way.
The boys in blue gathered and standing around, and then shooting o abuse at a possible suicide attacker being perhaps the highlight.
I haven't been watching it, but it sounds like another BBC series that starts off well and then ends up total nonsense. That mcmafia one was the same, I want back the 8hrs I wasted watching that back please....although nothing compares to Westworld Season 2, I have a good mind to write to HBO and demand compensation!
That's it there is a good idea to begin with but only rarely can people, even the best, carry that through to a consistent and rewarding conclusion.
Recently watched The Night Of which does both those things.
Part of the problem is nobody wants to do a one season show. Westworld should have been one season, Taboo as well and I am sure McMafia could have had a much better ending if they didn't have to crowbar a load of plot twists in order to enable the story to continue.
It was extremely funny in a can't as a result suspend my disbelief kind of way.
The boys in blue gathered and standing around, and then shooting o abuse at a possible suicide attacker being perhaps the highlight.
I haven't been watching it, but it sounds like another BBC series that starts off well and then ends up total nonsense. That mcmafia one was the same, I want back the 8hrs I wasted watching that back please....although nothing compares to Westworld Season 2, I have a good mind to write to HBO and demand compensation!
That's it there is a good idea to begin with but only rarely can people, even the best, carry that through to a consistent and rewarding conclusion.
Recently watched The Night Of which does both those things.
Part of the problem is nobody wants to do a one season show. Westworld should have been one season, Taboo as well and I am sure McMafia could have had a much better ending if they didn't have to crowbar a load of plot twists in order to enable the story to continue.
Westworld as an idea I think could easily support multiple seasons, the problem was the writing was nowhere near as awesome as people thought it was in Season 1, it was a mess, and that was really setting itself up for more difficulties. A triumph of presentation and acting skill though.
Am I the only PBer who hasn't watched a single episode of the Bodyguard?
Nope. I'm like a less extreme version of AndyJS, I usually take a few years before I watch shows, bar one or two favourites. Oddly, not with procedurals though.
The same Hunt who was sucking up so far to May over Chequers he was almost up her nostrils?
You mean he backed a Cabinet proposal until the facts changed and is now considering other options? Terrifying!
He backed a Cabinet proposal which he likely knew had no chance of passing, Davis and Boris can at least say they resigned beforehand as they knew it was not viable
You are buying into their spin - they didn't resign beforehand. Or at the least Boris did not. He resigned after he had already agreed to it. His resignation letter acknowledged that, in that it was only afterwards, over the weekend, that he decided after all he couldn't do what he said he'd do at Chequers and back it.
He still resigned after thinking it over
So not what you claimed then.
Given even you acknowledge he was the less principled of the two I am surprised you are so certain that he genuinely resigned because after thinking it through he could not back it after all. I don't discount the possibility, but given what Boris says now about Chequers and how awful and calamitous it would be (or have been), then I think the evidence suggests he is being less than truthful - he might well be right about Chequers, certainly it is dead for a reason, but if it is as bad as he says he cannot expect us to believe it took him a whole weekend to realise it, particularly when David realised it a lot sooner.
I do not know what his thoughts were, I am not Boris but the fact is he resigned over Chequers just as Davis did. The fact Davis resigned first may give him more credibility but they both can say, unlike those who stayed in the Cabinet, they saw it was unworkable at the time it was proposed
I usually get round to watching the latest TV dramas about 25 years after they're first shown. For example, last year I watched the original Twin Peaks series and a couple of weeks ago I watched the British version of House Of Cards for the first time.
If you have a chance, watch the Alec Guinness BBC Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy. It's aged well (unlike its sequel, Smiley's People)
There's a new Le Carre adaptation coming up later this year I believe.
Re Bodyguard, the central part of the final episode did seem unlikely, even allowing for the fact it's TV fiction, but there were some good twists which neither me and Mrs P saw coming at all. Keeley Hawes made the series overall though.
Is that a magic trick, wherein they place the words 'Labour must support' and 'remain' in close proximity to fool people into thinking they are for remain?
In all seriousness, a fudge is what the party wants here, something that may not be what the continuity remainers want but which allows them to essentially say it might be Labour policy to leave/remain and anything in between if they want, while stressing that a GE to get in power is the priority.
The same Hunt who was sucking up so far to May over Chequers he was almost up her nostrils?
You mean he backed a Cabinet proposal until the facts changed and is now considering other options? Terrifying!
He backed a Cabinet proposal which he likely knew had no chance of passing, Davis and Boris can at least say they resigned beforehand as they knew it was not viable
You are buying into their spin - they didn't resign beforehand. Or at the least Boris did not. He resigned after he had already agreed to it. His resignation letter acknowledged that, in that it was only afterwards, over the weekend, that he decided after all he couldn't do what he said he'd do at Chequers and back it.
He still resigned after thinking it over
So not what you claimed then.
Given even you acknowledge he was the less principled of the two I am surprised you are so certain that he genuinely resigned because after thinking it through he could not back it after all. I don't discount the possibility, but given what Boris says now about Chequers and how awful and calamitous it would be (or have been), then I think the evidence suggests he is being less than truthful - he might well be right about Chequers, certainly it is dead for a reason, but if it is as bad as he says he cannot expect us to believe it took him a whole weekend to realise it, particularly when David realised it a lot sooner.
I do not know what his thoughts were, I am not Boris but the fact is he resigned over Chequers just as Davis did. The fact Davis resigned first may give him more credibility but they both can say, unlike those who stayed in the Cabinet, they saw it was unworkable at the time it was proposed
Yes they can say it, but Boris is less believable, as he didn't see it was unworkable, in his own words he agreed it, then reconsidered over the weekend, and yet that is to say he was a fool since he is very clear now how apocalyptic it would have been.
It seems more plausible that Davis really did see it was unworkable. With Boris, his actions at the time and since undermine either his honesty now or his intelligence then.
Labour must support all options on the table? What if some of those options are mutually exclusive?
Not support all options on the table, support all options remaining on the table. The best kind of support, since potentially wavering supporters can tell themselves Labour might back any option, including their preferred option.
You go in the polling station and vote aggainst Putin's party, on the way out someone asks you which way you voted... what do you say? Surprised the exit polls weren't futher out tbh.
Is that the Vlad Zhironovsky led Liberal Democratic Party?
Labour must support all options on the table? What if some of those options are mutually exclusive?
Not support all options on the table, support all options remaining on the table. The best kind of support, since potentially wavering supporters can tell themselves Labour might back any option, including their preferred option.
So they are going to support diamond brexit staying on the table? Good to know
How will Labour know when they have reached the point "can't get an election" and should start "campaigning for a public vote on the terms of Brexit"?
Perhaps they are confident a deal will be done so the question will not arise? Therefore all that matters is that people remember, incorrectly, that Labour was in favour, unequivocally, of a #let'scallitapeoplesvotebecausewewanttobesupercondescending
You go in the polling station and vote aggainst Putin's party, on the way out someone asks you which way you voted... what do you say? Surprised the exit polls weren't futher out tbh.
Is that the Vlad Zhironovsky led Liberal Democratic Party?
Blimey, yes... so Putin's the moderate in that contest?
Figured it out. British Politics is directed by Jed Mercurio. Now it makes sense.
It's directed by Lars von Trier and written by Steven Moffat. The special effects are shit and it doesn't make any sense, but some of the characters are legitimately frightening and the fanboys insist there's a master plan...somehow.
Labour must support all options on the table? What if some of those options are mutually exclusive?
Not support all options on the table, support all options remaining on the table. The best kind of support, since potentially wavering supporters can tell themselves Labour might back any option, including their preferred option.
So they are going to support diamond brexit staying on the table? Good to know
Off course. Perhaps just on the edge of the table though, you can hardly notice it.
Labour must support all options on the table? What if some of those options are mutually exclusive?
It is utterly meaningless
Will satisfy no-one
But does it dissatisfy enough people significantly enough to lose Labour support when a GE does finally happen, whenever that it? I doubt it. After all, Labour totally would have secured a brilliant deal/kept us in the CU/backed a peoples vote to remain, they just never got the chance, for realsies guys. Corbyn4PM, he's so principled and clear in what he wants - certainly not like those obfuscating, cynical establishment politicians.
Edit: Being serious, I presume the important thing for Labour is that, should a motion pass, the headline most non wonks will see, depending on their personal preference, is 'Labour back people's vote', not 'Labour [might] back people's vote' or 'Labour backs GE' not 'Labour refuses people's vote'
Comments
Perhaps a people's vote between those choices so it's not her decision?
https://twitter.com/JoeWatts_/status/1043973925338853376
https://youtu.be/Iz-8CSa9xj8
The clinging on to this pathetic dream of a second referendum is really getting desparate now...
Lots of questions running round my head
It amuses me that Johnson and his Brexiteer friends may well have started a process that leads to an extreme left wing government that due to Brexit has all the stabilises removed. One good thing about being in the EU is the relative stability of economic policy and of course trade.
I presume the real struggle is wording it so that it does not seem that Labour are overly favouring a particular option, and emphasising that Labour taking over negotiations (somehow) to get a better deal would be preferred and this is more of a backstop, as it were?
Why does Corbyn hate the NHS so much?
I reckon Blind Brexit is the likely outcome, because of the timescale. At that point the #peoplesvote campaign will be to stay in the EEA as a stepping stone to Rejoin.
We have years of this to go.
My Remainer other half and rock solid Labour Remainer friend were unprintable last night in a spontaneous outburst at the EU following Salzburg. “Taking the piss”, and “making life deliberately difficult “ we’re at the mild end of the spectrum.
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1043968914659700738
How to drive businesses out of the UK...
(Sorry. Couldn't resist it. You can hate me now.)
It doesn't matter if the deal is Chequers, Canada Plus or whatever, not much is going to change on the border as long as there is a free trade element.
Things like the Common Travel Area between the UK & Ireland will continue to exist, the Irish have already discussed this with the EU. . Any customs check arrangement will not occur on the NI/Ireland border and the most visual aspect to the average Joe moving north and south, i.e. checks on people, will simply not exist as they don't exist now.
Why? Because no one on any side of the negotiations could be arsed with that so they won't bother.
Visibility of change, or the lack of it is key.
Although I suspect regular service of all parties of better services for less taxes/no more taxes/someone else will pay, will resume. It's not as though the public does not reward that sort of thing after all.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/7328887/bodyguard-boss-four-more-series/
It is set in the Welsh Valleys, but reminds me of when I first moved to Leicester and it was full of clothing factories.
49% want Brexit to go ahead, half of them want No Deal
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7325286/theresa-may-eu-salzburg-ambush-sun-says/
Strike a light, guvnor. Why weren't we told...
The boys in blue gathered and standing around, and then shooting o abuse at a possible suicide attacker being perhaps the highlight.
Scots were strongly opposed to No Deal though with 48% opposed and only 25% in favour, in the UK it was closer, 32% favoured No Deal but 44% still opposed it.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/k5u0h1qgsi/BrexitScenarios_160818.pdf (pages 5-6)
Recently watched The Night Of which does both those things.
That AV?
Given even you acknowledge he was the less principled of the two I am surprised you are so certain that he genuinely resigned because after thinking it through he could not back it after all. I don't discount the possibility, but given what Boris says now about Chequers and how awful and calamitous it would be (or have been), then I think the evidence suggests he is being less than truthful - he might well be right about Chequers, certainly it is dead for a reason, but if it is as bad as he says he cannot expect us to believe it took him a whole weekend to realise it, particularly when David realised it a lot sooner.
Am I the only PBer who hasn't watched a single episode of the Bodyguard?
No, but I intend to. I’m going to have some time off school in October feeling sorry for myself and it sounds like it would make a good distraction.
Re Bodyguard, the central part of the final episode did seem unlikely, even allowing for the fact it's TV fiction, but there were some good twists which neither me and Mrs P saw coming at all. Keeley Hawes made the series overall though.
In all seriousness, a fudge is what the party wants here, something that may not be what the continuity remainers want but which allows them to essentially say it might be Labour policy to leave/remain and anything in between if they want, while stressing that a GE to get in power is the priority.
I presume everyone thinks it will pass?
It seems more plausible that Davis really did see it was unworkable. With Boris, his actions at the time and since undermine either his honesty now or his intelligence then.
Edit: "can't get an election" needed careful typing
Will satisfy no-one
Edit: Being serious, I presume the important thing for Labour is that, should a motion pass, the headline most non wonks will see, depending on their personal preference, is 'Labour back people's vote', not 'Labour [might] back people's vote' or 'Labour backs GE' not 'Labour refuses people's vote'
PS agree Vanity Fair is very good too.
Enjoy.
(PS note the soundtrack trick, with a continuously rising note: last used in "Dunkirk", I think)