Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
Tories need to do a quick swap between David Davis and Theresa May.
David Davis plan seems to be the only *workable* plan on the table. Theresa and this fool Robbins have been running around in circles and wasting two months on a plan that's not going to fly.
It ate the sheep in the version I read, otherwise he couldn't have run down to the village to give the true alarm that was disbelieved. Eating both would fit the analogy well enough. I still think that in another election campaign Corbyn will lose votes from his starting position rather than gaining them as in the last one.
That is rather a brave forecast. I very much doubt that Corbyn will receive the big boost he enjoyed in 2017 - if only because he appears to be starting from a much higher level of support. Against that , he is in his element when in campaign mode and it is much more likely to be a case of how far his opponents can limit his advance. Moreover, contrary to what many believe , it is very much the 'norm' for the Opposition to move forward during the formal election campaign period.
I think he will get more critical attention in the MSM as he will now be seen as a prospective PM and a lot of the people who voted for him last time will also now see him as a genuine contender rather than someone they can vote for to reduce the Tory majority. They will pay more attention and start thinking about the implications of a Corbyn government. During the last campaign contradictions were well hidden that will probably be more apparent. The views of many who voted for Corbyn and Corbyn's own views are as wide apart in reality as say labour right wing to Tory right wing.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Broadcasters are still the key for swinging things. It may be wishful thinking but you can't deny that almost everyone was expecting a Tory win. Facing the prospect of Corbyn actually becoming PM will sober up some who voted for him last time.
I agree we were all expecting a Tory win last time and next time will inevitably be different. But if Corbyn's still LOTO at the next GE (personally, I expect him to have retired by then) he will still be a formidable campaigner.
One factor will be how radical the next Labour manifesto is. I think last time there were enough attactive policies but not any that 'rocked the boat' too much. If the next manifesto is a long way further left it might have some elements that could trip Labour up. Otherwise, a big swathe of the country will think we've had long enough of ineffective Tory government (imo).
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Just to be clear, I didn’t say the Vote Leave mandate was undeliverable. Only that Leavers should get behind a pragmatic negotiated Brexit so we can secure it and move on.
I agree with Robert Smithson that Brexit is a (long term) process. The Treaty of Rome wasn’t unbuilt in a day.
Yeah, sorry I should have been clearer.
Brexit should be a process and not an event, I'm surprised more people don't remind people that when we joined we had seven years of transition.
Tories need to do a quick swap between David Davis and Theresa May.
David Davis plan seems to be the only *workable* plan on the table. Theresa and this fool Robbins have been running around in circles and wasting two months on a plan that's not going to fly.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
It ate the sheep in the version I read, otherwise he couldn't have run down to the village to give the true alarm that was disbelieved. Eating both would fit the analogy well enough. I still think that in another election campaign Corbyn will lose votes from his starting position rather than gaining them as in the last one.
That is rather a brave forecast. I very much doubt that Corbyn will receive the big boost he enjoyed in 2017 - if only because he appears to be starting from a much higher level of support. Against that , he is in his element when in campaign mode and it is much more likely to be a case of how far his opponents can limit his advance. Moreover, contrary to what many believe , it is very much the 'norm' for the Opposition to move forward during the formal election campaign period.
I think he will get more critical attention in the MSM as he will now be seen as a prospective PM and a lot of the people who voted for him last time will also now see him as a genuine contender rather than someone they can vote for to reduce the Tory majority. They will pay more attention and start thinking about the implications of a Corbyn government. During the last campaign contradictions were well hidden that will probably be more apparent. The views of many who voted for Corbyn and Corbyn's own views are as wide apart in reality as say labour right wing to Tory right wing.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Broadcasters are still the key for swinging things. It may be wishful thinking but you can't deny that almost everyone was expecting a Tory win. Facing the prospect of Corbyn actually becoming PM will sober up some who voted for him last time.
In the last ten days of the 2017 campaign there were quite a few polls which pointed to the serious possibility of a Hung Parliament - particularly in the context of the Tory surge in Scotland which implied underperformance elsewhere in GB. Some of us did point this out at the time.
True but I'm pretty certain that the vast majority of voters cast their vote on the expectation of a Tory majority.
Well there were several Tories on here expressing doubts in the closing days of the campaign - David Herdson and Big _G come to mind!
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
You may well be surprised yet with TM yet
Certainly it is too late to change the leader. You do know how long that takes I assume
(1) in a forced choice (for simplicity) between Corbyn’s Labour and the Tories how do you vote?
and
(2) should I, as an activist, work to get a anti-Semite to the position of PM or should I work to offer a decent, healthy alternative to the Tories?
I’m saddened by you @RochdalePioneers. I think you're a decent honourable man. But you are making the wrong choice and justifying evil
Christ. Imagine how demented and divorced from reality (even for an inbred upper class twit) you'd have to be to say things like that with a straight face and actually believe them.
I don't think that the PB Tories realise that by being so absolutely mendaciously and ostentatiously mad like this they are actually more likely to drive the genuine labour right-wingers back into the fold.
Very true, the PB Tories , are in full hyperbole mode, to discredit every Labour supporter .
That is not fair. I have written several posts supporting RochdalePioneers and other labour supporters who are genuinely conflicted.
However, I make no apology for calling out Corbyn and the company he choses, his anti west, anti NATO, anti capitalism, pro Hamas, IRA, and Iran and an apologist for Putin's use of a nerve agent on the streets of Salisbury
When did Corbyn apologise for Putin's use of nerve agent in Salisbury Big_G?
He failed to condemn Putin and was widely attacked over it.
See the recent nerve agent attack was the same nerve agent used on the Skipals according to the OPCW today
As for the confirmation that the recent murder was caused by the same agent, who ever doubted it and what's that got to do with Corbyn's response?
That last comment was just informative and nothing to do with Corbyn obviously
Only having a bit of fun Big_G! Tbf in your post that sparked my reaction you said Corbyn is "anti west, anti NATO, anti capitalism, pro Hamas, IRA, and Iran and an apologist for Putin's use of a nerve agent on the streets of Salisbury"
The last point was the only one I could argue against, so I did!
Very very few people get the opportunity to vote for what they want. For a candidate who is perfect. For a party offering a flawless manifesto. For a leader who inspires and becalms. Its all shades of grey. So regardless of the wazzocks surrounding Jeremy Corbyn people wanting a Labour government will still vote Labour. Because the alternative is a Tory government.
Fed up trapped in insecure tenancies with dodgy landlords. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? Working all the hours God sends and still barely able to pay bills. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? The decimation of local government, the cuts to the NHS and Adult Social Care, driving the disabled to die in abject poverty - do none of these count because of anti-semitism?
Of will most voters continue to do as they do - vote on the issues that affect them. And not vote to make themselves continue to suffer just because a Tory tells them they are immoral.
You are conflating 2 questions:
(1) in a forced choice (for simplicity) between Corbyn’s Labour and the Tories how do you vote?
and
(2) should I, as an activist, work to get a anti-Semite to the position of PM or should I work to offer a decent, healthy alternative to the Tories?
I’m saddened by you @RochdalePioneers. I think you're a decent honourable man. But you are making the wrong choice and justifying evil
A somewhat over-inflated use of the word 'evil'! Always worth keeping something in the tank in case Charles Manson should happen to pass by
I believe Jeremy Corbyn is evil.
Why?
For me it was the whole Tunisian grave thing. Up to that point I was going with the idiot/fool thing. I still think he’s a passive anti-Semitist than an active one (to the extent that distinction matters) but he hangs out with active murderers who never recanted.
The difference with the PIRA is (as far as I know) he only met the leaders of Sinn Fein rather than active PIRA members. A fine distinction, I know, but I think he’s let his hatred for all things American lead him selves into very murky water.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
You may well be surprised yet with TM yet
Certainly it is too late to change the leader. You do know how long that takes I assume
'Is one problem with a Canada type deal that Canada is not geographically in Europe? Does all trade, commerce, business occur purely independent from geography? Or is there something fundamental fusing commerce and geography that has been there since the word dot, that is not of but in spite of the hideous EU superstate that came along and we took dislike to?'
Interestingly last week the Canadian conservatives decided to include a commitment to a free trade deal and freedom of movement - including reciprocal healthcare agreements - for workers and retirees with the UK, Australia and NZ in their 2019 election manifesto. Clearly they don't see distance as a barrier but a common language and culture and shared legal and political systems as being as important.
I doubt it will go anywhere - although the Canadian Tories have closed on Trudeau's Liberals in the polls - but wouldn't it be nice if Brits had freedom of movement with countries they actually wanted to move to?!
It ate the sheep in the version I read, otherwise he couldn't have run down to the village to give the true alarm that was disbelieved. Eating both would fit the analogy well enough. I still think that in another election campaign Corbyn will lose votes from his starting position rather than gaining them as in the last one.
That is rather a brave forecast. I very much doubt that Corbyn will receive the big boost he enjoyed in 2017 - if only because he appears to be starting from a much higher level of support. Against that , he is in his element when in campaign mode and it is much more likely to be a case of how far his opponents can limit his advance. Moreover, contrary to what many believe , it is very much the 'norm' for the Opposition to move forward during the formal election campaign period.
.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Broadcasters are still the key for swinging things. It may be wishful thinking but you can't deny that almost everyone was expecting a Tory win. Facing the prospect of Corbyn actually becoming PM will sober up some who voted for him last time.
In the last ten days of the 2017 campaign there were quite a few polls which pointed to the serious possibility of a Hung Parliament - particularly in the context of the Tory surge in Scotland which implied underperformance elsewhere in GB. Some of us did point this out at the time.
True but I'm pretty certain that the vast majority of voters cast their vote on the expectation of a Tory majority.
Well there were several Tories on here expressing doubts in the closing days of the campaign - David Herdson and Big _G come to mind!
It was David that allerted me initially but it was my intuition that made me very worried on election night. I knew something was not right
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
You may well be surprised yet with TM yet
Certainly it is too late to change the leader. You do know how long that takes I assume
If the parliamentary party agrees on one candidate it could be done in an afternoon?
Bottom line, Therea's put all her eggs in Chequers (and it looks DOA) while Davis seems to have a plan that might actually work.
Lets just stop all the hand wringing and get on with it.
Very very few people get the opportunity to vote for what they want. For a candidate who is perfect. For a party offering a flawless manifesto. For a leader who inspires and becalms. Its all shades of grey. So regardless of the wazzocks surrounding Jeremy Corbyn people wanting a Labour government will still vote Labour. Because the alternative is a Tory government.
Fed up trapped in insecure tenancies with dodgy landlords. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? Working all the hours God sends and still barely able to pay bills. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? The decimation of local government, the cuts to the NHS and Adult Social Care, driving the disabled to die in abject poverty - do none of these count because of anti-semitism?
Of will most voters continue to do as they do - vote on the issues that affect them. And not vote to make themselves continue to suffer just because a Tory tells them they are immoral.
You are conflating 2 questions:
(1) in a forced choice (for simplicity) between Corbyn’s Labour and the Tories how do you vote?
and
(2) should I, as an activist, work to get a anti-Semite to the position of PM or should I work to offer a decent, healthy alternative to the Tories?
I’m saddened by you @RochdalePioneers. I think you're a decent honourable man. But you are making the wrong choice and justifying evil
A somewhat over-inflated use of the word 'evil'! Always worth keeping something in the tank in case Charles Manson should happen to pass by
I believe Jeremy Corbyn is evil. That’s not a word I use lightly. Anti-Semitism is also evil.
I and many others thought Thatcher to be evil. Ditto Blair post- Iraq.
These a difference between policy decisions which you can vehemently disagree with and hanging out with the murderers of innocent men, women and children.
(And, before you go there, I do not - and will - equate the unfortunately loss of civilian lives in war with the deliberate targeting of innocents such as at Munich)
'Is one problem with a Canada type deal that Canada is not geographically in Europe? Does all trade, commerce, business occur purely independent from geography? Or is there something fundamental fusing commerce and geography that has been there since the word dot, that is not of but in spite of the hideous EU superstate that came along and we took dislike to?'
Interestingly last week the Canadian conservatives decided to include a commitment to a free trade deal and freedom of movement - including reciprocal healthcare agreements - for workers and retirees with the UK, Australia and NZ in their 2019 election manifesto. Clearly they don't see distance as a barrier but a common language and culture and shared legal and political systems as being as important.
I doubt it will go anywhere - although the Canadian Tories have closed on Trudeau's Liberals in the polls - but wouldn't it be nice if Brits had freedom of movement with countries they actually wanted to move to?!
Probably because he (rather naively in hindsight) thought he'd be able to influence proceedings from inside Cabinet. That his role meant something.
So he was quite happy with May vetoing things.
Got it.
Didn't say that. He was probably unhappy with May vetoing things but relunctantly concluded that staying with her doing so was better than walking. People can put up with a lot that they don't like before walking.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
You may well be surprised yet with TM yet
Certainly it is too late to change the leader. You do know how long that takes I assume
If the parliamentary party agrees on one candidate it could be done in an afternoon?
Bottom line, Therea's put all her eggs in Chequers (and it looks DOA) while David seems to have a plan that might actually work.
Lets just stop all the hand wringing and get on with it.
That will not happen and the membership would be incandescent with anger
Also neither Boris or Davis would have a chance of uniting the party
I think many voters sympathetic to Labour haven't paid a great deal of attention and start with the presumption that the leader of a major British party can't really be an extremist nut job. Labour is a powerful brand.They are also skeptical about claims of racism given that they are bandied about freely these days with rules that change daily and which nobody really understands. There is also the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. I will remind everyone that the wolf did indeed arrive and eat the flock.
Didn't it eat the boy?
It ate the sheep in the version I read, otherwise he couldn't have run down to the village to give the true alarm that was disbelieved. Eating both would fit the analogy well enough. I still think that in another election campaign Corbyn will lose votes from his starting position rather than gaining them as in the last one.
That is rather a brave forecast. I very much doubt that Corbyn will receive the big boost he enjoyed in 2017 - if only because he appears to be starting from a much higher level of support. Against that , he is in his element when in campaign mode and it is much more likely to be a case of how far his opponents can limit his advance. Moreover, contrary to what many believe , it is very much the 'norm' for the Opposition to move forward during the formal election campaign period.
I think he will get more critical attention in the MSM as he will now be seen as a prospective PM and a lot of the people who voted for him last time will also now see him as a genuine contender rather than someone they can vote for to reduce the Tory majority. They will pay more attention and start thinking about the implications of a Corbyn government. During the last campaign contradictions were well hidden that will probably be more apparent. The views of many who voted for Corbyn and Corbyn's own views are as wide apart in reality as say labour right wing to Tory right wing.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Media in this country = BBC. Most people get their news from the BBC news or website. The BBC did not really give Corbyn a hard time, and in fact gave lot of positive press as he performed better than the low expectations
'Is one problem with a Canada type deal that Canada is not geographically in Europe? Does all trade, commerce, business occur purely independent from geography? Or is there something fundamental fusing commerce and geography that has been there since the word dot, that is not of but in spite of the hideous EU superstate that came along and we took dislike to?'
Interestingly last week the Canadian conservatives decided to include a commitment to a free trade deal and freedom of movement - including reciprocal healthcare agreements - for workers and retirees with the UK, Australia and NZ in their 2019 election manifesto. Clearly they don't see distance as a barrier but a common language and culture and shared legal and political systems as being as important.
I doubt it will go anywhere - although the Canadian Tories have closed on Trudeau's Liberals in the polls - but wouldn't it be nice if Brits had freedom of movement with countries they actually wanted to move to?!
Very very few people get the opportunity to vote for what they want. For a candidate who is perfect. For a party offering a flawless manifesto. For a leader who inspires and becalms. Its all shades of grey. So regardless of the wazzocks surrounding Jeremy Corbyn people wanting a Labour government will still vote Labour. Because the alternative is a Tory government.
Fed up trapped in insecure tenancies with dodgy landlords. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? Working all the hours God sends and still barely able to pay bills. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? The decimation of local government, the cuts to the NHS and Adult Social Care, driving the disabled to die in abject poverty - do none of these count because of anti-semitism?
Of will most voters continue to do as they do - vote on the issues that affect them. And not vote to make themselves continue to suffer just because a Tory tells them they are immoral.
You are conflating 2 questions:
(1) in a forced choice (for simplicity) between Corbyn’s Labour and the Tories how do you vote?
and
(2) should I, as an activist, work to get a anti-Semite to the position of PM or should I work to offer a decent, healthy alternative to the Tories?
I’m saddened by you @RochdalePioneers. I think you're a decent honourable man. But you are making the wrong choice and justifying evil
A somewhat over-inflated use of the word 'evil'! Always worth keeping something in the tank in case Charles Manson should happen to pass by
I believe Jeremy Corbyn is evil. That’s not a word I use lightly. Anti-Semitism is also evil.
I and many others thought Thatcher to be evil. Ditto Blair post- Iraq.
These a difference between policy decisions which you can vehemently disagree with and hanging out with the murderers of innocent men, women and children.
(And, before you go there, I do not - and will - equate the unfortunately loss of civilian lives in war with the deliberate targeting of innocents such as at Munich)
Not for one moment do I believe that Corbyn approved of what happened in Munich in 1972 - and I believe he has said so. Moreover, there was no declaration of war by Blair in 2003 - many view it as a massive terrorist operation ordered by a pair of criminals.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
You may well be surprised yet with TM yet
Certainly it is too late to change the leader. You do know how long that takes I assume
If he says he take the job for a couple of years only? Those who want Brexit + those who don't want Boris - that pretty much gets you to a coronation.....
I think many voters sympathetic to Labour haven't paid a great deal of attention and start with the presumption that the leader of a major British party can't really be an extremist nut job. Labour is a powerful brand.They are also skeptical about claims of racism given that they are bandied about freely these days with rules that change daily and which nobody really understands. There is also the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. I will remind everyone that the wolf did indeed arrive and eat the flock.
Didn't it eat the boy?
It ate the sheep in the version I read, otherwise he couldn't have run down to the village to give the true alarm that was disbelieved. Eating both would fit the analogy well enough. I still think that in another election campaign Corbyn will lose votes from his starting position rather than gaining them as in the last one.
That is rather a brave forecast. I very much doubt that Corbyn will receive the big boost he enjoyed in 2017 - if only because he appears to be starting from a much higher level of support. Against that , he is in his element when in campaign mode and it is much more likely to be a case of how far his opponents can limit his advance. Moreover, contrary to what many believe , it is very much the 'norm' for the Opposition to move forward during the formal election campaign period.
I think he will get more critical attention in the MSM as he will now be seen as a prospective PM and a lot of the people who voted for him last time will also now see him as a genuine contender rather than someone they can vote for to reduce the Tory majority. They will pay more attention and start thinking about the implications of a Corbyn government. During the last campaign contradictions were well hidden that will probably be more apparent. The views of many who voted for Corbyn and Corbyn's own views are as wide apart in reality as say labour right wing to Tory right wing.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Media in this country = BBC. Most people get their news from the BBC news or website. The BBC did not really give Corbyn a hard time, and in fact gave lot of positive press as he performed better than the low expectations
So what makes you or @NorthofStoke think it will be different next time?
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
It was her 25% lead. The Tories were ahead by low single figures when Cameron resigned.
But Boris would be a rotten leader because he's nothing more than hot air. Spouting off at conference or writing for the Telegraph is easy enough for him but it's a different thing actually running a government. Running London may well have been beyond him and one of his principle roles there was as a cheerleader for the city, which is something he was well suited to.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
You may well be surprised yet with TM yet
Certainly it is too late to change the leader. You do know how long that takes I assume
If he says he take the job for a couple of years only? Those who want Brexit + those who don't want Boris - that pretty much gets you to a coronation.....
I think many voters sympathetic to Labour haven't paid a great deal of attention and start with the presumption that the leader of a major British party can't really be an extremist nut job. Labour is a powerful brand.They are also skeptical about claims of racism given that they are bandied about freely these days with rules that change daily and which nobody really understands. There is also the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. I will remind everyone that the wolf did indeed arrive and eat the flock.
Didn't it eat the boy?
It ate the sheep in the version I read, otherwise he couldn't have run down to the village to give the true alarm that was disbelieved. Eating both would fit the analogy well enough. I still think that in another election campaign Corbyn will lose votes from his starting position rather than gaining them as in the last one.
That is rather a brave forecast. I very much doubt that Corbyn will receive the big boost he enjoyed in 2017 - if only because he appears to be starting from a much higher level of support. Against that , he is in his element when in campaign mode and it is much more likely to be a case of how far his opponents can limit his advance. Moreover, contrary to what many believe , it is very much the 'norm' for the Opposition to move forward during the formal election campaign period.
I think he will get more critical attention in the MSM as he will now be seen as a prospective PM and a lot of the people who voted for him last time will also now see him as a genuine contender rather than someone they can vote for to reduce the Tory majority. They will pay more attention and start thinking about the implications of a Corbyn government. During the last campaign contradictions were well hidden that will probably be more apparent. The views of many who voted for Corbyn and Corbyn's own views are as wide apart in reality as say labour right wing to Tory right wing.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Media in this country = BBC. Most people get their news from the BBC news or website. The BBC did not really give Corbyn a hard time, and in fact gave lot of positive press as he performed better than the low expectations
So what makes you or @NorthofStoke think it will be different next time?
I think even you know it will be different next time by some distance
Very very few people get the opportunity to vote for what they want. For a candidate who is perfect. For a party offering a flawless manifesto. For a leader who inspires and becalms. Its all shades of grey. So regardless of the wazzocks surrounding Jeremy Corbyn people wanting a Labour government will still vote Labour. Because the alternative is a Tory government.
Fed up trapped in insecure tenancies with dodgy landlords. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? Working all the hours God sends and still barely able to pay bills. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? The decimation of local government, the cuts to the NHS and Adult Social Care, driving the disabled to die in abject poverty - do none of these count because of anti-semitism?
Of will most voters continue to do as they do - vote on the issues that affect them. And not vote to make themselves continue to suffer just because a Tory tells them they are immoral.
You are conflating 2 questions:
(1) in a forced choice (for simplicity) between Corbyn’s Labour and the Tories how do you vote?
and
(2) should I, as an activist, work to get a anti-Semite to the position of PM or should I work to offer a decent, healthy alternative to the Tories?
I’m saddened by you @RochdalePioneers. I think you're a decent honourable man. But you are making the wrong choice and justifying evil
A somewhat over-inflated use of the word 'evil'! Always worth keeping something in the tank in case Charles Manson should happen to pass by
I believe Jeremy Corbyn is evil. That’s not a word I use lightly. Anti-Semitism is also evil.
I and many others thought Thatcher to be evil. Ditto Blair post- Iraq.
These a difference between policy decisions which you can vehemently disagree with and hanging out with the murderers of innocent men, women and children.
(And, before you go there, I do not - and will - equate the unfortunately loss of civilian lives in war with the deliberate targeting of innocents such as at Munich)
Not for one moment do I believe that Corbyn approved of what happened in Munich in 1972 - and I believe he has said so. Moreover, there was no declaration of war by Blair in 2003 - many view it as a massive terrorist operation ordered by a pair of criminals.
But he associates who thecthe peoplecwho planned, organised and executed similar moves. And honours those responsible for Munich.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
It was her 25% lead. The Tories were ahead by low single figures when Cameron resigned.
Yeah.... But then again she did also blow Cameron's majority (as TSE is fond of telling us)
Well, a couple of islands just off the east coast of Canada that are technically part of France.
Night night.
I worry about those little French bits of France dotted around. I still worry they are a springbord from which the French plan to conquer the world.....
Perhaps I should share my concerns with Donald Trump?
It ate the sheep in the version I read, otherwise he couldn't have run down to the village to give the true alarm that was disbelieved. Eating both would fit the analogy well enough. I still think that in another election campaign Corbyn will lose votes from his starting position rather than gaining them as in the last one.
That is rather a brave forecast. I very much doubt that Corbyn will receive the big boost he enjoyed in 2017 - if only because he appears to be starting from a much higher level of support. Against that , he is in his element when in campaign mode and it is much more likely to be a case of how far his opponents can limit his advance. Moreover, contrary to what many believe , it is very much the 'norm' for the Opposition to move forward during the formal election campaign period.
I think he will get more critical attention in the MSM as he will now be seen as a prospective PM and a lot of the people who voted for him last time will also now see him as a genuine contender rather than someone they can vote for to reduce the Tory majority. They will pay more attention and start thinking about the implications of a Corbyn government. During the last campaign contradictions were well hidden that will probably be more apparent. The views of many who voted for Corbyn and Corbyn's own views are as wide apart in reality as say labour right wing to Tory right wing.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Media in this country = BBC. Most people get their news from the BBC news or website. The BBC did not really give Corbyn a hard time, and in fact gave lot of positive press as he performed better than the low expectations
So what makes you or @NorthofStoke think it will be different next time?
I think even you know it will be different next time by some distance
I really don't think that. I genuinely think the UK broadcasters do their utmost to be politically neutral. They don't get it right every time but I think they do ok. That often means we all feel that leaders and policies of parties we are opposed to get let off the hook and not scrutinised enough. I can't see it being any different next time.
I think there are a number of Conservative MPs who worry about No Deal Brexit, but want to be seen as ideologically pure. This gives them license to rebel.
Well, a couple of islands just off the east coast of Canada that are technically part of France.
Night night.
I worry about those little French bits of France dotted around. I still worry they are a springbord from which the French plan to conquer the world.....
Perhaps I should share my concerns with Donald Trump?
Feck no! Don't tell the Donald that the French have outposts in his backyard - he'll want to build un autre mur.
I think many voters sympathetic to Labour haven't paid a great deal of attention and start with the presumption that the leader of a major British party can't really be an extremist nut job. Labour is a powerful brand.They are also skeptical about claims of racism given that they are bandied about freely these days with rules that change daily and which nobody really understands. There is also the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. I will remind everyone that the wolf did indeed arrive and eat the flock.
Didn't it eat the boy?
It ate the sheep in the version I read.
T.
I think he will get more critical attention in the MSM as he will now be seen as a prospective PM and a lot of the people who voted for him last time will also now see him as a genuine contender rather than someone they can vote for to reduce the Tory majority. They will pay more attention and start thinking about the implications of a Corbyn government. During the last campaign contradictions were well hidden that will probably be more apparent. The views of many who voted for Corbyn and Corbyn's own views are as wide apart in reality as say labour right wing to Tory right wing.
File under 'wishful thinking'.
I am interested in which organisations you think constitutes the MSM. Does it include the Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and Times, all of whom hardly gave Corbyn a free pass in GE2017?
Media in this country = BBC. Most people get their news from the BBC news or website. The BBC did not really give Corbyn a hard time, and in fact gave lot of positive press as he performed better than the low expectations
So what makes you or @NorthofStoke think it will be different next time?
I think even you know it will be different next time by some distance
I don’t see how it can be. In 2017, it seemed that many of the attacks on Corbyn were discounted on the basis that they were pretty similar to what the right-wing press had said about Miliband in 2015 - despite the fact that they were (in some cases) a good bit more accurate when applied to Corbyn. Basically hysteria fatigue set in. Why would that differ next time? The BBC approach is to report the arguments and lines that are running in the print media, and they will faithfully report the latest furore as Michael Fallon’s successor turns out to describe why Corbyn is a threat to the very way of life of all decent hardworking Britons... and nobody will take much notice.
Very very few people get the opportunity to vote for what they want. For a candidate who is perfect. For a party offering a flawless manifesto. For a leader who inspires and becalms. Its all shades of grey. So regardless of the wazzocks surrounding Jeremy Corbyn people wanting a Labour government will still vote Labour. Because the alternative is a Tory government.
Fed up trapped in insecure tenancies with dodgy landlords. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? Working all the hours God sends and still barely able to pay bills. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? The decimation of local government, the cuts to the NHS and Adult Social Care, driving the disabled to die in abject poverty - do none of these count because of anti-semitism?
Of will most voters continue to do as they do - vote on the issues that affect them. And not vote to make themselves continue to suffer just because a Tory tells them they are immoral.
You are conflating 2 questions:
(1) in a forced choice (for simplicity) between Corbyn’s Labour and the Tories how do you vote?
and
(2) should I, as an activist, work to get a anti-Semite to the position of PM or should I work to offer a decent, healthy alternative to the Tories?
I’m saddened by you @RochdalePioneers. I think you're a decent honourable man. But you are making the wrong choice and justifying evil
A somewhat over-inflated use of the word 'evil'! Always worth keeping something in the tank in case Charles Manson should happen to pass by
I believe Jeremy Corbyn is evil. That’s not a word I use lightly. Anti-Semitism is also evil.
I and many others thought Thatcher to be evil. Ditto Blair post- Iraq.
These a difference between policy decisions which you can vehemently disagree with and hanging out with the murderers of innocent men, women and children.
(And, before you go there, I do not - and will - equate the unfortunately loss of civilian lives in war with the deliberate targeting of innocents such as at Munich)
Not for one moment do I believe that Corbyn approved of what happened in Munich in 1972 - and I believe he has said so. Moreover, there was no declaration of war by Blair in 2003 - many view it as a massive terrorist operation ordered by a pair of criminals.
You do not need to declare war when enforcing UN resolutions.
I remember when we were told all this talk of mandatory reselection was nonsense scare mongering....it's going to happen isn't it. Bye bye all moderate MPs.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
It was her 25% lead. The Tories were ahead by low single figures when Cameron resigned.
Yeah.... But then again she did also blow Cameron's majority (as TSE is fond of telling us)
I remember when we were told all this talk of mandatory reselection was nonsense scare mongering....it's going to happen isn't it. Bye bye all moderate MPs.
It looks like it. Yet I've no doubt there will be Labour supporters on here still claiming that it's not as bad as it looks. The moderates are way past the time they should have struck.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
It was her 25% lead. The Tories were ahead by low single figures when Cameron resigned.
Yeah.... But then again she did also blow Cameron's majority (as TSE is fond of telling us)
So how come Corbyn ain't PM then?
Cause she cobbled something together with DUP.
But her general election was a disaster from start to finish as we all know...
I remember when we were told all this talk of mandatory reselection was nonsense scare mongering....it's going to happen isn't it. Bye bye all moderate MPs.
To be honest, some of it is going to happen anyway, since they will need a process to handle 650 constituencies falling to 600 if May pushes ahead on that.
Perhaps there is already such a mechanism with the party, I don't know.
But as I said yesterday, if they deselect too many, then an independent Labour grouping could be sitting in the Commons quite shortly. Nothing left to lose.
It really is quite impressive how quickly he has managed to piss off pretty much everybody. Perhaps he needs to be caught having an affair, the French always seem to like that in a leader.
From a temporary basis in Carlisle, I acquired Carstairs junction to Haymarket, and Edinburgh to Tweedbank (the latter line reopened in 2015).
I once made the mistake of following the cycle path signs in Leith near the Scottish government buildings and was almost thrown from my bicycle by the old rails remaining on the cobbled street thereabouts.
I've only been as far as Stow on the Tweedbank line.
Have you been on the new class 385? All the other commuters I've spoken to are not impressed at all with the seats or the lack of proper tables.
It really is quite impressive how quickly he has managed to piss off pretty much everybody.
Is it?
He's President of France. Plus he's actually facing down strikers etc - that takes some cajones in France.
Don't get me wrong I think he general direction of travel is clearly what France needs, but all that stuff like with the kid that called him by his nickname was a total PR disaster.
From a temporary basis in Carlisle, I acquired Carstairs junction to Haymarket, and Edinburgh to Tweedbank (the latter line reopened in 2015).
I once made the mistake of following the cycle path signs in Leith near the Scottish government buildings and was almost thrown from my bicycle by the old rails remaining on the cobbled street thereabouts.
I've only been as far as Stow on the Tweedbank line.
Have you been on the new class 385? All the other commuters I've spoken to are not impressed at all with the seats or the lack of proper tables.
I didn't see any 385s at Waverley today, only 380s and older units - and was gobsmacked to see a 365 leave platform 12 - I used to ride those regularly between King's Cross and Cambridge when I worked there in the mid-2000s.
I remember when we were told all this talk of mandatory reselection was nonsense scare mongering....it's going to happen isn't it. Bye bye all moderate MPs.
It looks like it. Yet I've no doubt there will be Labour supporters on here still claiming that it's not as bad as it looks. The moderates are way past the time they should have struck.
They did strike. Something like 80% of them struck with a no confidence vote. Their strike failed though and like Obi Wan only made him stronger.
Sounds desperate given Theresa was a "loser" at the general election and she's lost the only proven "winner" (Boris) from her Cabinet....
Boris is a loser. Did in his words diddly squat at the FO and flounced off in a pathetic gesture.
Neither of us know how true this statement is but it must be based on his findings and make no bones about it Boris has angered a large number of his fellow conservative mps
Boris is a proven, three time election winner (two mayoral contests and on the winning side of the referendum)
Remind me how many elections Theresa's won? The one and only general election she fought as leader saw her blowing a 25% polling lead in four weeks...
Against Jeremy Corbyn...
Boris is not a leader in any sense but more importantly he would lose a large number of his fellow conservatives support if he became the leader including several women who consider him to be grotesque. Indeed some have indicated they would resign from the party if he was leader
I'm not advocating Boris as leader (I think it should be Davis) but just pointing out Theresa May and her acolytes bringing up "winners" and "losers" in light of her blowing a 25% poll lead in four weeks probably isn't really a terribly good idea....
It was her 25% lead. The Tories were ahead by low single figures when Cameron resigned.
Yeah.... But then again she did also blow Cameron's majority (as TSE is fond of telling us)
So how come Corbyn ain't PM then?
Cause she cobbled something together with DUP.
But her general election was a disaster from start to finish as we all know...
Of course - that's why she won fewer MPs and fewer votes than Corbyn.
SeanT...I think it is nailed on that labour will propose legalising cannabis, same as free uni was. The only unknown is if they go for the faux medical approach many US states started with or go the whole hog.
It really is quite impressive how quickly he has managed to piss off pretty much everybody.
Is it?
He's President of France. Plus he's actually facing down strikers etc - that takes some cajones in France.
Don't get me wrong I think he general direction of travel is clearly what France needs, but all that stuff like with the kid that called him by his nickname was a total PR disaster.
Doubt that's what is affecting his ratings. French Presidents are notorious for becoming unpopular quickly, especially any that try to make tough decisions.
It really is quite impressive how quickly he has managed to piss off pretty much everybody.
Is it?
He's President of France. Plus he's actually facing down strikers etc - that takes some cajones in France.
Don't get me wrong I think he general direction of travel is clearly what France needs, but all that stuff like with the kid that called him by his nickname was a total PR disaster.
Doubt that's what is affecting his ratings. French Presidents are notorious for becoming unpopular quickly, especially any that try to make tough decisions.
Of course the labour reforms are deeply unpopular, but his image of an out of touch up his own arse individual really can't help when you are trying to tell people we are going to end this culture of cushy jobs that you can't be sacked from.
I remember when we were told all this talk of mandatory reselection was nonsense scare mongering....it's going to happen isn't it. Bye bye all moderate MPs.
It looks like it. Yet I've no doubt there will be Labour supporters on here still claiming that it's not as bad as it looks. The moderates are way past the time they should have struck.
They did strike. Something like 80% of them struck with a no confidence vote. Their strike failed though and like Obi Wan only made him stronger.
Yes, but what I meant was "succeed" not "fail". Labour just doesn't seem to be as good at the dark arts of politics as the Tories are.
Very very few people get the opportunity to vote for what they want. For a candidate who is perfect. For a party offering a flawless manifesto. For a leader who inspires and becalms. Its all shades of grey. So regardless of the wazzocks surrounding Jeremy Corbyn people wanting a Labour government will still vote Labour. Because the alternative is a Tory government.
Fed up trapped in insecure tenancies with dodgy landlords. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? Working all the hours God sends and still barely able to pay bills. Should they vote Tory because Jeremy Corbyn? The decimation of local government, the cuts to the NHS and Adult Social Care, driving the disabled to die in abject poverty - do none of these count because of anti-semitism?
Of will most voters continue to do as they do - vote on the issues that affect them. And not vote to make themselves continue to suffer just because a Tory tells them they are immoral.
You are conflating 2 questions:
(1) in a forced choice (for simplicity) between Corbyn’s Labour and the Tories how do you vote?
and
(2) should I, as an activist, work to get a anti-Semite to the position of PM or should I work to offer a decent, healthy alternative to the Tories?
I’m saddened by you @RochdalePioneers. I think you're a decent honourable man. But you are making the wrong choice and justifying evil
A somewhat over-inflated use of the word 'evil'! Always worth keeping something in the tank in case Charles Manson should happen to pass by
I believe Jeremy Corbyn is evil.
Why?
For me it was the whole Tunisian grave thing. Up to that point I was going with the idiot/fool thing. I still think he’s a passive anti-Semitist than an active one (to the extent that distinction matters) but he hangs out with active murderers who never recanted.
The difference with the PIRA is (as far as I know) he only met the leaders of Sinn Fein rather than active PIRA members. A fine distinction, I know, but I think he’s let his hatred for all things American lead him selves into very murky water.
Unfortunately it's not true that he met only 'Sinn Fein' members. The people he invited in to parliament, just two weeks after MPs saw their colleagues and wives murdered and maimed by the IRA in Brighton, were two convicted IRA terrorists (Linda Quigley and Gerard McLoughlin). It was a deliberate, and utterly vile, act by Corbyn. For that alone, leave aside anything else, he should be reviled by any decent person - and of course there's plenty else, such as his contempt of the victims of the Munich murders.
Comments
You think it was Davis's idea to agree to the EU's sequencing rather than May's?
Might be Boris and Davis were talking shite
https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/735770073822961664
https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/695208361625796608
https://twitter.com/andyrome64/status/898306913611300866
David Davis plan seems to be the only *workable* plan on the table. Theresa and this fool Robbins have been running around in circles and wasting two months on a plan that's not going to fly.
Time to stop pissing about and get this done!
One factor will be how radical the next Labour manifesto is. I think last time there were enough attactive policies but not any that 'rocked the boat' too much. If the next manifesto is a long way further left it might have some elements that could trip Labour up. Otherwise, a big swathe of the country will think we've had long enough of ineffective Tory government (imo).
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/876894066478329857
Brexit should be a process and not an event, I'm surprised more people don't remind people that when we joined we had seven years of transition.
Certainly it is too late to change the leader. You do know how long that takes I assume
The last point was the only one I could argue against, so I did!
The difference with the PIRA is (as far as I know) he only met the leaders of Sinn Fein rather than active PIRA members. A fine distinction, I know, but I think he’s let his hatred for all things American lead him selves into very murky water.
After Chequers showed that not to be the case, he quit.
Trump appears to me to be serially comitting the mistake that is anathema for capitalism.
He seems to be trying to micromanage the USA.
The strain must be terrible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fairy_tales
Interestingly last week the Canadian conservatives decided to include a commitment to a free trade deal and freedom of movement - including reciprocal healthcare agreements - for workers and retirees with the UK, Australia and NZ in their 2019 election manifesto. Clearly they don't see distance as a barrier but a common language and culture and shared legal and political systems as being as important.
I doubt it will go anywhere - although the Canadian Tories have closed on Trudeau's Liberals in the polls - but wouldn't it be nice if Brits had freedom of movement with countries they actually wanted to move to?!
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/conservatives-back-free-movement-canada-uk-australia-new-zealand-2018
Little known fact: after the US, France is Canada's next nearest neighbour.
Bottom line, Therea's put all her eggs in Chequers (and it looks DOA) while Davis seems to have a plan that might actually work.
Lets just stop all the hand wringing and get on with it.
Got it.
(And, before you go there, I do not - and will - equate the unfortunately loss of civilian lives in war with the deliberate targeting of innocents such as at Munich)
I doubt it will go anywhere - although the Canadian Tories have closed on Trudeau's Liberals in the polls - but wouldn't it be nice if Brits had freedom of movement with countries they actually wanted to move to?!
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/conservatives-back-free-movement-canada-uk-australia-new-zealand-2018
Little known fact: after the US, France is Canada's next nearest neighbour.
Not Iceland?
Also neither Boris or Davis would have a chance of uniting the party
Not Iceland?
Not Iceland, not Greenland, not Russia. France.
Well, a couple of islands just off the east coast of Canada that are technically part of France.
Night night.
Yes, you have proved the point. Again.
Moreover, there was no declaration of war by Blair in 2003 - many view it as a massive terrorist operation ordered by a pair of criminals.
The video is pretty bad
Pah! Can I please have a Brexit exemption on the basis I've never wanted to leave?
But Boris would be a rotten leader because he's nothing more than hot air. Spouting off at conference or writing for the Telegraph is easy enough for him but it's a different thing actually running a government. Running London may well have been beyond him and one of his principle roles there was as a cheerleader for the city, which is something he was well suited to.
It only has about 5000 residents though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon
I’m sorry but that is just wrong.
Perhaps I should share my concerns with Donald Trump?
"Are you free, Mr Davis?"
"I'M FREE, MR CITY AM!"
Seriously. Look at the photograph. That is the campest pose a senior politician has ever committed to posterity.
https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1037085806777847808
Happy debating comrades!
From a temporary basis in Carlisle, I acquired Carstairs junction to Haymarket, and Edinburgh to Tweedbank (the latter line reopened in 2015).
A very good idea
Have a pleasant nights rest everyone
Good night folks
https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1037088611190169602
https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/04/wikimedia-warns-eu-copyright-reform-threatens-the-vibrant-free-web/
But her general election was a disaster from start to finish as we all know...
Perhaps there is already such a mechanism with the party, I don't know.
But as I said yesterday, if they deselect too many, then an independent Labour grouping could be sitting in the Commons quite shortly. Nothing left to lose.
He's President of France. Plus he's actually facing down strikers etc - that takes some cajones in France.
I've only been as far as Stow on the Tweedbank line.
Have you been on the new class 385? All the other commuters I've spoken to are not impressed at all with the seats or the lack of proper tables.
As Philip Cowley is fond of pointing out - once backbenchers have rebelled once they get a taste for it.
But yes, they do seem to want Jezza in Downing Street.
https://twitter.com/mcnally_bucky/status/1037037149126897666