It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice.
Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain")
Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
of course you can its called spoil your vote
*shrug*
Suit yourself. We will see what reality decides when the time comes.
what will decide imo will probably be completely different from what we expect. The problem with looking at life solely through the Brexit prism is it ignores all the other factors around us. Plus it's hardly an objective debate on here anymore.
I spent 10 days in RoI ending last week and nobody mentioned Brexit. The pope's visit yes, Dublin versus Tyrone GAA certainly but Brexit no. The RoI will be hurt as much as the UK if all the horror stories come to pass yet nobody's panicking. basically they are expecting a deal to get done and have said so.
A co-ordinated attempt to reduce the options down to, oh I don't know - Chequers?
It is the clock which has reduced the options down to, pretty much, Chequers. Ain't no other proposal on the table.
Of course that doesn't mean that Chequers is itself practical. If it's not, then as far as I can see the only remaining option is some kind of loose commitment to a Canada-style FTA, and let the car manufacturing and aerospace industries go hang themselves.
We don't really need a political declaration on the future relationship at all. There's nothing to stop the Withdrawal Agreement being agreed without one. ...
Nothing, except the treaty obligation of Article 50, political necessity, and economic logic.
A co-ordinated attempt to reduce the options down to, oh I don't know - Chequers?
It is the clock which has reduced the options down to, pretty much, Chequers. Ain't no other proposal on the table.
Of course that doesn't mean that Chequers is itself practical. If it's not, then as far as I can see the only remaining option is some kind of loose commitment to a Canada-style FTA, and let the car manufacturing and aerospace industries go hang themselves.
We don't really need a political declaration on the future relationship at all. There's nothing to stop the Withdrawal Agreement being agreed without one. ...
Nothing, except the treaty obligation of Article 50, political necessity, and economic logic.
Article 50 only says that the withdrawal should take account of the framework of the future relationship. It's sufficient to know that the future relationship will be as a third country based on the UK's red lines in order to meet that obligation.
If (as is I think most likely) they half-adopt it with qualifications, then probably both of the above will happen.
Given that the the principal cause of all this is Corbyn's own anti-Semitic links, there's no way out, short of ditching Corbyn and purging the party of the nasty elements who have joined in his name - which is not going to happen any time soon,
If true then I expect this is a death match Willsman vs Lansman. Willsman demanding the right to call Israel an illegitimate fascist state and not be called a racist, Lansman demanding the right to win an election.
If Lansman loses, leadership of the cult passes to Lord Voldemort
That's a quite audacious bit of polling technique there, you count people who think they were lied to by the Remain campaign as evidence that there's something wonky about the decision to leave.
That article is pretty definitive (not least because it's exactly what I've been saying for many months!). Also note the final paragraph:
As for a revamped EEA seen as « an interim step » of a few years for the UK before becoming a third State vis-à-vis the EU, it would politically be even less realistic. Why would EEA members take the risk to open a difficult negotiation with the EU which could lead them to lose their current advantages?
Talk of the EEA as a solution is for the birds, even more so the daft idea that we could unilaterally fall into it, or arrogantly treat it as a one-night stand.
I must confess I've always wanted the UK to rejoin EFTA and to begin that process the day we formally leave the EU.
Britain's return would revamp the EFTA organisation and allow it to become a counterweight to the EU. I also wanted us to negotiate Swiss-style bilateral treaties with the EU under Article 50 but that was clearly well beyond the wit and wisdom of this current shower of as Government which hasn't been prepared to do the working or the thinking to make it happen.
EFTA is incompatible with a customs union with the EU, so what's your proposal for Northern Ireland, given that you've apparently done much more thinking about this than the government?
The “Proposal for Nothern Ireland” is really simple. The UK will work on technological customs systems and will strategically inspect commercial vehicles coming into the U.K. as it sees fit, at locations away from the actual border, in the same way as it does at the moment.
Not if Corbyn and McDonnell can help it and given we are heading for a BINO transition deal largely irrelevant in the shot term anyway.
Plus of course without resolving the free movement concerns and sovereignty concerns a second EU referendum resolves nothing even if Remain scraped home
Get your popcorn ready. Don't forget that the election of Willsman is opposed by MOMENTUM. On Facebook there were a lot of people publicly resigning their memberships of Momentum and asking how they get the traitor Lansman out.
A bit confusing when the twitter mob pushed, and continued to push the 'JC9', including Willsmen, and when even other members applauded the election of willsman
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice.
Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain")
Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
of course you can its called spoil your vote
*shrug*
Suit yourself. We will see what reality decides when the time comes.
what will decide imo will probably be completely different from what we expect. The problem with looking at life solely through the Brexit prism is it ignores all the other factors around us. Plus it's hardly an objective debate on here anymore.
I spent 10 days in RoI ending last week and nobody mentioned Brexit. The pope's visit yes, Dublin versus Tyrone GAA certainly but Brexit no. The RoI will be hurt as much as the UK if all the horror stories come to pass yet nobody's panicking. basically they are expecting a deal to get done and have said so.
Funnily enough, I was over in the RoI recently as well and it felt a lot more relaxed than over here. The one Brexit conversation I had was basically along the lines of "It is all so f****** stupid - can't they see it will not solve anything?" but the attitude was one of "Oh well....life goes on"
I noticed that the church seems a bit less popular than it used to be
That's a quite audacious bit of polling technique there, you count people who think they were lied to by the Remain campaign as evidence that there's something wonky about the decision to leave.
Clearly they enjoyed being lied to so much that they want another go.
Get your popcorn ready. Don't forget that the election of Willsman is opposed by MOMENTUM. On Facebook there were a lot of people publicly resigning their memberships of Momentum and asking how they get the traitor Lansman out.
A bit confusing when the twitter mob pushed, and continued to push the 'JC9', including Willsmen, and when even other members applauded the election of willsman
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice.
Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain")
Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
of course you can its called spoil your vote
*shrug*
Suit yourself. We will see what reality decides when the time comes.
what will decide imo will probably be completely different from what we expect. The problem with looking at life solely through the Brexit prism is it ignores all the other factors around us. Plus it's hardly an objective debate on here anymore.
I spent 10 days in RoI ending last week and nobody mentioned Brexit. The pope's visit yes, Dublin versus Tyrone GAA certainly but Brexit no. The RoI will be hurt as much as the UK if all the horror stories come to pass yet nobody's panicking. basically they are expecting a deal to get done and have said so.
Funnily enough, I was over in the RoI recently as well and it felt a lot more relaxed than over here. The one Brexit conversation I had was basically along the lines of "It is all so f****** stupid - can't they see it will not solve anything?" but the attitude was one of "Oh well....life goes on"
I noticed that the church seems a bit less popular than it used to be
yes RoI is increasingly a secular, same as anywhere else state, much of Irelands quirkiness is dying. You still find it out in the boondocks but Dubliners are as big a pain in the ass as Londoners :-)
That's a quite audacious bit of polling technique there, you count people who think they were lied to by the Remain campaign as evidence that there's something wonky about the decision to leave.
Here are the full results - which are not weighted so we have no idea how representative they are of all UK mums or even middle class mums in the south east who have time to post on mumsnet while the au pair does the childcare! Of the 70 per cent who want another vote they are split between a three way question, a two way leave or remain and a two way deal vs no deal.
And that of course is the problem - we want a people's vote but have no idea what the question on the ballot paper is actually going to be! If we had a 3 way vote would we have 3 campaigns?
Stop talking about a people's vote - and tell us what the question or questions will be? And how it would all be clearer than in 2016. Cos even remaining now isn't necessarily remain on current terms.
Get your popcorn ready. Don't forget that the election of Willsman is opposed by MOMENTUM. On Facebook there were a lot of people publicly resigning their memberships of Momentum and asking how they get the traitor Lansman out.
A bit confusing when the twitter mob pushed, and continued to push the 'JC9', including Willsmen, and when even other members applauded the election of willsman
Has anyone watched the entire first season of Jack Ryan yet?
I have and I want to discuss one thing.
What the eff was that weird Las Vegas sex scene all about?
Normally we rely on you to tell us what weird sex scenes are all about.
This was beyond even me.
*adds show to "to-watch" list*
I'm watching Van Helsing on Netflix. First 4 or 5 episodes not very good with some appalling acting. Pretty good by the end of the first series, certainly worth starting series 2. 7.5/10
There's a consistent pattern in the polls that women are turning against Brexit far more than men so far.
According to YouGov polling for the People’s Vote campaign, women now back remaining in the EU by a margin of 12 points (56 per cent want to stay in compared with 44 per cent who want to leave) while men are still almost evenly divided (51 to 49 per cent). Although two years ago both men and women backed Brexit by a broadly similar margin, the swing to Remain has been almost twice as great among female voters as male ones.
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice.
Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain")
Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
of course you can its called spoil your vote
*shrug*
Suit yourself. We will see what reality decides when the time comes.
what will decide imo will probably be completely different from what we expect. The problem with looking at life solely through the Brexit prism is it ignores all the other factors around us. Plus it's hardly an objective debate on here anymore.
I spent 10 days in RoI ending last week and nobody mentioned Brexit. The pope's visit yes, Dublin versus Tyrone GAA certainly but Brexit no. The RoI will be hurt as much as the UK if all the horror stories come to pass yet nobody's panicking. basically they are expecting a deal to get done and have said so.
Funnily enough, I was over in the RoI recently as well and it felt a lot more relaxed than over here. The one Brexit conversation I had was basically along the lines of "It is all so f****** stupid - can't they see it will not solve anything?" but the attitude was one of "Oh well....life goes on"
I noticed that the church seems a bit less popular than it used to be
yes RoI is increasingly a secular, same as anywhere else state, much of Irelands quirkiness is dying. You still find it out in the boondocks but Dubliners are as big a pain in the ass as Londoners :-)
Get your popcorn ready. Don't forget that the election of Willsman is opposed by MOMENTUM. On Facebook there were a lot of people publicly resigning their memberships of Momentum and asking how they get the traitor Lansman out.
A bit confusing when the twitter mob pushed, and continued to push the 'JC9', including Willsmen, and when even other members applauded the election of willsman
Momentum / Lansman are the enemy now.
Let’s see what happens when the members realise that Momentum is a private company and Landman owns the database.
Get your popcorn ready. Don't forget that the election of Willsman is opposed by MOMENTUM. On Facebook there were a lot of people publicly resigning their memberships of Momentum and asking how they get the traitor Lansman out.
A bit confusing when the twitter mob pushed, and continued to push the 'JC9', including Willsmen, and when even other members applauded the election of willsman
Momentum / Lansman are the enemy now.
Let’s see what happens when the members realise that Momentum is a private company and Landman owns the database.
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice.
Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain")
Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
of course you can its called spoil your vote
*shrug*
Suit yourself. We will see what reality decides when the time comes.
what will decide imo will probably be completely different from what we expect. The problem with looking at life solely through the Brexit prism is it ignores all the other factors around us. Plus it's hardly an objective debate on here anymore.
I spent 10 days in RoI ending last week and nobody mentioned Brexit. The pope's visit yes, Dublin versus Tyrone GAA certainly but Brexit no. The RoI will be hurt as much as the UK if all the horror stories come to pass yet nobody's panicking. basically they are expecting a deal to get done and have said so.
Funnily enough, I was over in the RoI recently as well and it felt a lot more relaxed than over here. The one Brexit conversation I had was basically along the lines of "It is all so f****** stupid - can't they see it will not solve anything?" but the attitude was one of "Oh well....life goes on"
I noticed that the church seems a bit less popular than it used to be
yes RoI is increasingly a secular, same as anywhere else state, much of Irelands quirkiness is dying. You still find it out in the boondocks but Dubliners are as big a pain in the ass as Londoners :-)
Or Parisians?
I love Paris! My favourite city...
Mine's Berlin followed by Prague.
Brooke Junior has just started work in Paris this week. He got a bollocking from his girlfriends mum ( francaise ) that he couldnt speak decent french and needed to up his game as she didnt want grandchildren who couldnt call her grandmere.
Have to say we all thought she was doing an Usain Bolt before she could walk, but duly he has taken on an intern job until Xmas in Paris. I just hope he actually picks up french or he'll be on for another ticking off.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
Has everyone seen the clip on social media of Yasmin Dar, who came top of the NEC vote, applauding and lauding the Islamic Revolution in Iran?
Apparently this is normal.
Truly we have jumped the shark and smashed through the Overton window.
The Far Left and Islamists have a lot in common and, because the latter hate the West, America, Israel, Jews and liberalism, the Far Left consider them friends.
So not a surprise at all.
It's what explains Far Left feminists describing the burqa as empowering and turning a blind eye to the rampant misogyny towards and abuse of women in countries/places where Islamists are in power.
This is also why the openly gay Owen Jones will need to stay away from rooftops should they win a GE.
I am interested how Owen squares the circle that his man calls friends a number of groups who are massive homophobes.
I am interested in how any sentient being with a traditionally Left Wing conscience, promoter of gay rights, gender equality, etc etc, can stay inside a party which so openly and eagerly consorts with Islamist sects, communities, terrorists and entire regimes. As was originally pointed out, the election of Dar is just mind-boggling. She calls the 38 years of Islamist autocracy in Iran a "Happy Time". Well, yes, I guess it has been happy if you a psychotically homophobic murderer who owns a crane.
Put it another way, we are a witnessing a total and evil betrayal of literally EVERYTHING Labour have fought for, in terms of social policy. And yet their dumb MPs just sit there, like the big stupid frog in the kettle.
It isn't as if young Owen doesn't have a history of going absolutely batshit crazy at the merest hint of anything that sounds anti-LGBT.....except when it is the massive elephant in the room.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
A co-ordinated attempt to reduce the options down to, oh I don't know - Chequers?
It is the clock which has reduced the options down to, pretty much, Chequers. Ain't no other proposal on the table.
Of course that doesn't mean that Chequers is itself practical. If it's not, then as far as I can see the only remaining option is some kind of loose commitment to a Canada-style FTA, and let the car manufacturing and aerospace industries go hang themselves.
We don't really need a political declaration on the future relationship at all. There's nothing to stop the Withdrawal Agreement being agreed without one. ...
Nothing, except the treaty obligation of Article 50, political necessity, and economic logic.
What has economic logic ever had to do with it? As for political necessity - it might be seen as politically necessary by both sides, but other political necessities could easily get in the way. It could always end up as a Prisoners Dilemma scenario.
Brooke Junior has just started work in Paris this week. He got a bollocking from his girlfriends mum ( francaise ) that he couldnt speak decent french and needed to up his game as she didnt want grandchildren who couldnt call her grandmere.
Have to say we all thought she was doing an Usain Bolt before she could walk, but duly he has taken on an intern job until Xmas in Paris. I just hope he actually picks up french or he'll be on for another ticking off.
I have no doubt he will improve. Practice makes perfect
I have never been to Prague or Berlin, but Frankfurt was OK and Nuremberg was gorgeous.
I liked Madrid... in the summer!! Lovely and warm.
Dublin was not bad. It has improved a lot over the years.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
There's a consistent pattern in the polls that women are turning against Brexit far more than men so far.
According to YouGov polling for the People’s Vote campaign, women now back remaining in the EU by a margin of 12 points (56 per cent want to stay in compared with 44 per cent who want to leave) while men are still almost evenly divided (51 to 49 per cent). Although two years ago both men and women backed Brexit by a broadly similar margin, the swing to Remain has been almost twice as great among female voters as male ones.
Brooke Junior has just started work in Paris this week. He got a bollocking from his girlfriends mum ( francaise ) that he couldnt speak decent french and needed to up his game as she didnt want grandchildren who couldnt call her grandmere.
Have to say we all thought she was doing an Usain Bolt before she could walk, but duly he has taken on an intern job until Xmas in Paris. I just hope he actually picks up french or he'll be on for another ticking off.
I have no doubt he will improve. Practice makes perfect
I have never been to Prague or Berlin, but Frankfurt was OK and Nuremberg was gorgeous.
I liked Madrid... in the summer!! Lovely and warm.
Dublin was not bad. It has improved a lot over the years.
I have flown in to Dublin loads of time ( 2nd daughter is a Civil Engineer and works for Irelands largest construction co, ) but havent been in the centre since 1983 !
If you get the chance Prague is fantastic. I like Berlin because its such an eclectic mix of old and new and is always changing. Currentlly the big project is rebuilding the Royal Palace in the city centre ( it will become a musem and arts centre )
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I think it will be more than 10 years, but as a 50-something I hope I am still alive to witness the gnashing of teeth and swivelling of eyes of all of those that are still alive that have gloated over their pyrrhic victory some two years ago.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
We are still in.
Haha, yes that is so often overlooked.
Interestingly I watched an interview with Andrea Loathsome this morning and she said she voted to leave the EU, the single market, the customs union and European Court of Justice. She must have had a different ballot paper to the rest of us.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I think it will be more than 10 years, but as a 50-something I hope I am still alive to witness the gnashing of teeth and swivelling of eyes of all of those that are still alive that have gloated over their pyrrhic victory some two years ago.
A bit like some Remainers today? Adonis, Grayling etc
Brooke Junior has just started work in Paris this week. He got a bollocking from his girlfriends mum ( francaise ) that he couldnt speak decent french and needed to up his game as she didnt want grandchildren who couldnt call her grandmere.
Have to say we all thought she was doing an Usain Bolt before she could walk, but duly he has taken on an intern job until Xmas in Paris. I just hope he actually picks up french or he'll be on for another ticking off.
I have no doubt he will improve. Practice makes perfect
I have never been to Prague or Berlin, but Frankfurt was OK and Nuremberg was gorgeous.
I liked Madrid... in the summer!! Lovely and warm.
Dublin was not bad. It has improved a lot over the years.
I have flown in to Dublin loads of time ( 2nd daughter is a Civil Engineer and works for Irelands largest construction co, ) but havent been in the centre since 1983 !
If you get the chance Prague is fantastic. I like Berlin because its such an eclectic mix of old and new and is always changing. Currentlly the big project is rebuilding the Royal Palace in the city centre ( it will become a musem and arts centre )
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
We are still in.
Haha, yes that is so often overlooked.
Interestingly I watched an interview with Andrea Loathsome this morning and she said she voted to leave the EU, the single market, the customs union and European Court of Justice. She must have had a different ballot paper to the rest of us.
The interviewer should have asked where she voted to put the customs border with Ireland.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I think it will be more than 10 years, but as a 50-something I hope I am still alive to witness the gnashing of teeth and swivelling of eyes of all of those that are still alive that have gloated over their pyrrhic victory some two years ago.
If that's all youve got to look forward to I feel sorry for you.
Im looking forward to more travel, sex in unusual places and another grand slam for Ireland.
Always find Prague horribly overrated. Crap food as well. Berlin is fascinating historically but lacks pzazz somehow. I do like a nice currywurst.
Naples is glorious. Chaotic, filthy, criminal yet somehow sublime (and the food rocks). Paris is a museum: weirdly dull, yet gorgeously beautiful, like a Vogue model.
My favourite completely forgotten and overlooked European cities are: Lincoln, Bolzano, Nantes, and Porto.
Would second Oporto. Some great restaurants (o paparico is up there with the best places I have eaten), and obviously plenty of port to try. Also, very close to some lovely coastline.
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice.
Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain")
Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
I choose Leave. It was a false choice to say Remain of The Wilderness.
Leave was a vote to give the UK Government a mandate to RON with the EU in pursuit of a future relationship with it not based upon membership.
I remember when certain Conservative politicians proposed a referendum to establish a mandate to negotiate with the EU, followed by a second referendum to judge the outcome of negotiations...
Funnily enough, I was over in the RoI anything?" but the attitude was one of "Oh well....life goes on"
I noticed that the church seems a bit less popular than it used to be
yes RoI is increasingly a secular, same as anywhere else state, much of Irelands quirkiness is dying. You still find it out in the boondocks but Dubliners are as big a pain in the ass as Londoners :-)
Or Parisians?
I love Paris! My favourite city...
Mine's Berlin followed by Prague.
Brooke Junior has r ticking off.
Always find Prague horribly overrated. Crap food as well. Berlin is fascinating historically but lacks pzazz somehow. I do like a nice currywurst.
Naples is glorious. Chaotic, filthy, criminal yet somehow sublime (and the food rocks). Paris is a museum: weirdly dull, yet gorgeously beautiful, like a Vogue model.
My favourite completely forgotten and overlooked European cities are: Lincoln, Bolzano, Nantes, and Porto.
Im an old prussian so I always find lots in Berlin - I love a day trip to Potsdam.
I'd agree Prague has lost some of its fun. I first went there in 1995 and itt was like the wild East. You could have three course meal in the Old town square with wine for under £10. Today that might just cover the wine. Since then the corporates have moved in but for a weekend its still hard to beat.
Has anyone watched the entire first season of Jack Ryan yet?
I have and I want to discuss one thing.
What the eff was that weird Las Vegas sex scene all about?
Normally we rely on you to tell us what weird sex scenes are all about.
This was beyond even me.
*adds show to "to-watch" list*
I'm watching Van Helsing on Netflix. First 4 or 5 episodes not very good with some appalling acting. Pretty good by the end of the first series, certainly worth starting series 2. 7.5/10
Re Tv....Sons of Anarchy spin-off Mayans MC start this evening in the US.
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice.
Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain")
Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
I choose Leave. It was a false choice to say Remain of The Wilderness.
Leave was a vote to give the UK Government a mandate to RON with the EU in pursuit of a future relationship with it not based upon membership.
I remember when certain Conservative politicians proposed a referendum to establish a mandate to negotiate with the EU, followed by a second referendum to judge the outcome of negotiations...
But, we will have left before negotiations are concluded.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I think it will be more than 10 years, but as a 50-something I hope I am still alive to witness the gnashing of teeth and swivelling of eyes of all of those that are still alive that have gloated over their pyrrhic victory some two years ago.
If that's all youve got to look forward to I feel sorry for you.
Im looking forward to more travel, sex in unusual places and another grand slam for Ireland.
Oh, I have plenty to look forward to Mr Alanbrooke. Winding up the swivel-eyed is only a hobby of mine, and while pleasant to behold it need not occupy me too much as it is far too easy. Pleased to hear you are a rugby fan as it shows that even Brexit supporters have redeeming features
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I think it will be more than 10 years, but as a 50-something I hope I am still alive to witness the gnashing of teeth and swivelling of eyes of all of those that are still alive that have gloated over their pyrrhic victory some two years ago.
If that's all youve got to look forward to I feel sorry for you.
Im looking forward to more travel, sex in unusual places and another grand slam for Ireland.
Oh, I have plenty to look forward to Mr Alanbrooke. Winding up the swivel-eyed is only a hobby of mine, and while pleasant to behold it need not occupy me too much as it is far too easy. Pleased to hear you are a rugby fan as it shows that even Brexit supporters have redeeming features
Talking of sex in unusual places, I had sex in a yurt in the middle of a Swedish forest, just last week.
Congratulations, but I am not sure masturbation counts.
England have kept faith with the same batsmen for the final Test against India, in what will be Alastair Cook's last international game.
The famous (not) Einstein quote about insanity comes to mind....
The series is won, and it'll be Cook's last game. Keaton Jennings needs to play well to keep his place for Sri Lanka. Hopefully Jimmy can get 5 wickets too.
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I think it will be more than 10 years, but as a 50-something I hope I am still alive to witness the gnashing of teeth and swivelling of eyes of all of those that are still alive that have gloated over their pyrrhic victory some two years ago.
If that's all youve got to look forward to I feel sorry for you.
Im looking forward to more travel, sex in unusual places and another grand slam for Ireland.
Oh, I have plenty to look forward to Mr Alanbrooke. Winding up the swivel-eyed is only a hobby of mine, and while pleasant to behold it need not occupy me too much as it is far too easy. Pleased to hear you are a rugby fan as it shows that even Brexit supporters have redeeming features
Talking of sex in unusual places, I had sex in a yurt in the middle of a Swedish forest, just last week.
Congratulations, but I am not sure masturbation counts.
ALSO I discovered that Sweden is quite monumentally boring. It might even be more boring than Denmark, which, hitherto, was my choice for Most Boring Country In The World.
I wonder if the people who compile those human happiness league tables, and always put Nordic countries on top, ever consider the sheer boring-ness of so many Nordic countries? OK they have really good paternity leave laws, but fuck me they are DULL.
And they don't even LOOK happy. If you walk into a Swedish pub it's like everyone is gathered around a table sombrely discussing Mum's chemotherapy.
There was an interesting freakonomics episode on this a few weeks ago.
Has everyone seen the clip on social media of Yasmin Dar, who came top of the NEC vote, applauding and lauding the Islamic Revolution in Iran?
Apparently this is normal.
Truly we have jumped the shark and smashed through the Overton window.
The Far Left and Islamists have a lot in common and, because the latter hate the West, America, Israel, Jews and liberalism, the Far Left consider them friends.
So not a surprise at all.
It's what explains Far Left feminists describing the burqa as empowering and turning a blind eye to the rampant misogyny towards and abuse of women in countries/places where Islamists are in power.
This is also why the openly gay Owen Jones will need to stay away from rooftops should they win a GE.
I am interested how Owen squares the circle that his man calls friends a number of groups who are massive homophobes.
I am interested in how any sentient being with a traditionally Left Wing conscience, promoter of gay rights, gender equality, etc etc, can stay inside a party which so openly and eagerly consorts with Islamist sects, communities, terrorists and entire regimes. As was originally pointed out, the election of Dar is just mind-boggling. She calls the 38 years of Islamist autocracy in Iran a "Happy Time". Well, yes, I guess it has been happy if you a psychotically homophobic murderer who owns a crane.
Put it another way, we are a witnessing a total and evil betrayal of literally EVERYTHING Labour have fought for, in terms of social policy. And yet their dumb MPs just sit there, like the big stupid frog in the kettle.
Remember that Khomeini came to power with the backing of a lot of Liberal/Leftist support in 1979. They believed he was actually a step towards a secular/socialist Iran. Of course they were quickly proved wrong, most of them ended up in prison or exile.
Note this bit, you can smell the fudge beginning to form:
Senior EU diplomats and officials admit that the central tenets of the Chequers proposals, involving a common rulebook on goods, and an unprecedented customs arrangement, are dead in the water.
However, it is believed that the “zero tariffs, zero quota” offer made by Donald Tusk, the European council president, in March, along with fresh thinking on how to facilitate customs checks to reduce friction at the border, could be developed and packaged as a substantive counter-offer. “There is a lot that can be done to minimise checks,” said an EU diplomat. “What is an internal market in goods? A lot of this is semantics.”
ALSO I discovered that Sweden is quite monumentally boring. It might even be more boring than Denmark, which, hitherto, was my choice for Most Boring Country In The World.
I wonder if the people who compile those human happiness league tables, and always put Nordic countries on top, ever consider the sheer boring-ness of so many Nordic countries? OK they have really good paternity leave laws, but fuck me they are DULL.
And they don't even LOOK happy. If you walk into a Swedish pub it's like everyone is gathered around a table sombrely discussing Mum's chemotherapy.
There was an interesting freakonomics episode on this a few weeks ago.
There was? Intriguing. What did they conclude?
Outsiders find it boring, and very difficult to integrate in order to fully appreciate the shared value society...but yes it the work life balance, being able to finish at 4pm, to leave work for pretty much any reason, even hobbies and paternity / family laws.
They interviewed a British woman who moved there from london. She said the first few years it was painfully boring, but then she had kids and that changed everything, as all those "perks" were all of a sudden amazing beneficial.
Note this bit, you can smell the fudge beginning to form:
Senior EU diplomats and officials admit that the central tenets of the Chequers proposals, involving a common rulebook on goods, and an unprecedented customs arrangement, are dead in the water.
However, it is believed that the “zero tariffs, zero quota” offer made by Donald Tusk, the European council president, in March, along with fresh thinking on how to facilitate customs checks to reduce friction at the border, could be developed and packaged as a substantive counter-offer. “There is a lot that can be done to minimise checks,” said an EU diplomat. “What is an internal market in goods? A lot of this is semantics.”
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice. Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain") Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
I choose Leave. It was a false choice to say Remain of The Wilderness.
Leave was a vote to give the UK Government a mandate to RON with the EU in pursuit of a future relationship with it not based upon membership.
I remember when certain Conservative politicians proposed a referendum to establish a mandate to negotiate with the EU, followed by a second referendum to judge the outcome of negotiations...
But those were the decent, honest, trustworthy Conservative politicians. Where are they now, Mr Glenn?
Mr. Rob, I remember hearing somewhere or other that the communists in Germany didn't mind Hitler winning an election as they thought he'd bugger it up comprehensively, get turfed out, and then they'd sweep to power.
It is the EU or the wilderness. That has ALWAYS been the choice. Everything else is just Brexiteer fantasies....
I choose neither.
You cannot chose neither. We either Remain (one option) or Leave (all the other options that are not "Remain") Neither = Leave simply because it is not "Remain"
I choose Leave. It was a false choice to say Remain of The Wilderness.
Leave was a vote to give the UK Government a mandate to RON with the EU in pursuit of a future relationship with it not based upon membership.
I remember when certain Conservative politicians proposed a referendum to establish a mandate to negotiate with the EU, followed by a second referendum to judge the outcome of negotiations...
But those were the decent, honest, trustworthy Conservative politicians. Where are they now, Mr Glenn?
I was actually referring to David Davis, so he's regressed somewhat...
I know I should be getting very worked up about the increasing nonsense of Brexit. But there is a generation coming who aren't going to stand for any of this. Give it 10 years they will be in power and if there is a cross-continental group worthy of (re)joining then there will be a serious movement before you know it. And compared to leaving, (re)joining will have a clear purpose, and end-state so likely to be less traumatic for all concerned. So long game time, rather than getting caught up in every microspasm of the current bickering.
well that's great. It means they will have to have a vote, consult the electorate and legitimise the decision.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
I think it will be more than 10 years, but as a 50-something I hope I am still alive to witness the gnashing of teeth and swivelling of eyes of all of those that are still alive that have gloated over their pyrrhic victory some two years ago.
If that's all youve got to look forward to I feel sorry for you.
Im looking forward to more travel, sex in unusual places and another grand slam for Ireland.
Oh, I have plenty to look forward to Mr Alanbrooke. Winding up the swivel-eyed is only a hobby of mine, and while pleasant to behold it need not occupy me too much as it is far too easy. Pleased to hear you are a rugby fan as it shows that even Brexit supporters have redeeming features
Talking of sex in unusual places, I had sex in a yurt in the middle of a Swedish forest, just last week.
Comments
https://twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1036877193346011136
I spent 10 days in RoI ending last week and nobody mentioned Brexit. The pope's visit yes, Dublin versus Tyrone GAA certainly but Brexit no. The RoI will be hurt as much as the UK if all the horror stories come to pass yet nobody's panicking. basically they are expecting a deal to get done and have said so.
https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2018/0725/980891-intergovernmental-conference/
https://twitter.com/HenryTribe/status/1036948122340155392
well thats 2 of them
Although I have some sympathy with the line that those that claim a higher moral standard should be more tightly held.
If Lansman loses, leadership of the cult passes to Lord Voldemort
Plus of course without resolving the free movement concerns and sovereignty concerns a second EU referendum resolves nothing even if Remain scraped home
I noticed that the church seems a bit less popular than it used to be
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1036954447379816448
Pete Willsman being democratically elected to the NEC
Things Labour Friends of Israel don't find deplorable:
Israeli snipers shooting 1000s of unarmed Palestinians
Benjamin Netanyahu talking about the strong crushing the weak
And that of course is the problem - we want a people's vote but have no idea what the question on the ballot paper is actually going to be! If we had a 3 way vote would we have 3 campaigns?
Stop talking about a people's vote - and tell us what the question or questions will be? And how it would all be clearer than in 2016. Cos even remaining now isn't necessarily remain on current terms.
https://www.mumsnet.com/pdf/eu-referendum-data-tables-august-2018--tables.pdf
I'm watching Van Helsing on Netflix. First 4 or 5 episodes not very good with some appalling acting. Pretty good by the end of the first series, certainly worth starting series 2.
7.5/10
According to YouGov polling for the People’s Vote campaign, women now back remaining in the EU by a margin of 12 points (56 per cent want to stay in compared with 44 per cent who want to leave) while men are still almost evenly divided (51 to 49 per cent). Although two years ago both men and women backed Brexit by a broadly similar margin, the swing to Remain has been almost twice as great among female voters as male ones.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/brexit-divisions-are-getting-bigger-not-smaller-nrxktsmlp
I love Paris! My favourite city...
Brooke Junior has just started work in Paris this week. He got a bollocking from his girlfriends mum ( francaise ) that he couldnt speak decent french and needed to up his game as she didnt want grandchildren who couldnt call her grandmere.
Have to say we all thought she was doing an Usain Bolt before she could walk, but duly he has taken on an intern job until Xmas in Paris. I just hope he actually picks up french or he'll be on for another ticking off.
The whole drone pilot subplot was just weird.
For a while I thought we were headed for a season 2 of Breaking Bad moment but with a drone pilot instead of an air traffic controller.
If our politicians had followed that route over the last 40 years we'd still be in it.
As for political necessity - it might be seen as politically necessary by both sides, but other political necessities could easily get in the way. It could always end up as a Prisoners Dilemma scenario.
I have never been to Prague or Berlin, but Frankfurt was OK and Nuremberg was gorgeous.
I liked Madrid... in the summer!! Lovely and warm.
Dublin was not bad. It has improved a lot over the years.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/has-david-davis-triumphed-in-the-battle-for-brexit/
If you get the chance Prague is fantastic. I like Berlin because its such an eclectic mix of old and new and is always changing. Currentlly the big project is rebuilding the Royal Palace in the city centre ( it will become a musem and arts centre )
https://berliner-schloss.de/webcam/
It has been evident for a while that we are Actually Leaving.
Now it seems like we'll be Actually Diverging, too.
Interestingly I watched an interview with Andrea Loathsome this morning and she said she voted to leave the EU, the single market, the customs union and European Court of Justice. She must have had a different ballot paper to the rest of us.
Im looking forward to more travel, sex in unusual places and another grand slam for Ireland.
I'd agree Prague has lost some of its fun. I first went there in 1995 and itt was like the wild East. You could have three course meal in the Old town square with wine for under £10. Today that might just cover the wine. Since then the corporates have moved in but for a weekend its still hard to beat.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/destroying-unique-cultural-identity-readers-react-to-union-jack-branding-on-haggis-1-4794607
The famous (not) Einstein quote about insanity comes to mind....
Their Vicar Character nor a fan
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/12/wings-over-scotland-bloggers-defamation-case-against-msp-kezia-dugdale
Hopefully Jimmy can get 5 wickets too.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/04/eu27-to-offer-theresa-may-a-carrot-and-stick-approach-to-brexit-chequers-plan-irish-border
Note this bit, you can smell the fudge beginning to form:
Senior EU diplomats and officials admit that the central tenets of the Chequers proposals, involving a common rulebook on goods, and an unprecedented customs arrangement, are dead in the water.
However, it is believed that the “zero tariffs, zero quota” offer made by Donald Tusk, the European council president, in March, along with fresh thinking on how to facilitate customs checks to reduce friction at the border, could be developed and packaged as a substantive counter-offer. “There is a lot that can be done to minimise checks,” said an EU diplomat. “What is an internal market in goods? A lot of this is semantics.”
They interviewed a British woman who moved there from london. She said the first few years it was painfully boring, but then she had kids and that changed everything, as all those "perks" were all of a sudden amazing beneficial.
https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1036974306893471745
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