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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: Will Donald Trump be Re-Elected in 2020?

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  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    Morning all :)

    From dancing in the southern hemisphere to the evolving crisis in local Government finance here and the huge increase in spend on children's services:

    https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2018/08/english-councils-overspend-childrens-services-ps800m?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_term=

    That's a 10% overspend and in some County Councils the figure will be much higher. The truth is the big financial pressures for Councils are coming from the spending on children - note the £800m overspend contrasts with a £270m underspend in Adult social care and a £340m underspend in Highways.

    The debate though is all about adult social care and not spending on children.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    Aarrgh. The cringe is off the chart. Jesus. She's like a puppet with the stings cut. Why do that if you know you're going to be absolutely crap at it?
    So what - are you so perfect
    I'm not perfect but I'd have the self-awareness not to make a twat of myself by going full Elaine Benes in that situation.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/13Y6LAZJqRspI4/giphy.gif
  • Morning all,

    Mark Lilla argues in his new book that the Dems can't win until they work their way past identity politic obsessions and start to articulate a vision for the whole of the US, based on what it means (rights and duties etc) to be a citizen.

    He also strongly argues that Dems have lost touch with the fly over states and their activist base of campus and metro area residents must try and engage and empathise with, say, a backwoods dweller in Virginia. The obsession with identity groups and movements has left blue collar and union activists lost and out of touch within the party, and crucially, there has been a failure to try and win at local level.

    What do the Dems envision the US should look like in ten years time?

    His summary:

    "Less marches and more mayors."

    I disagree profoundly with that.

    It should be fewer marches.
    :lol: My mistake.
    I thought you were quoting!
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    Agreed. Good for her giving it a go.
  • Personal statement. .

    At 75 and my wife at 79 I agree entirely with your post

    I have no interest anymore in being involved with managing clubs or organisations having been heavily involved most of my life and prefer to focus attention on my wife and family, especially our grandchildren

    While the Queen is exceptional I would not be attracted to vote for any politician older than myself. There is a time when the batton should be handed on to a younger person
    Thank you Mr G. While we are at different points on the political spectrum we do seem to agree on quite a few things!
    It probably makes a difference that Trump has presumably had the best care money can buy throughout his life. If you have the money, healthcare in the US is great - the problem is, most people don’t
    Not sure any amount of money stops the natural ageing process
    It helps a lot. Do you think the Queen is still being in good health at 92 is purely by chance?
    She is far and away the exception to the rule
    What about Prince Philip?

    My impression is that to a certain extent it applies to our society as a whole: people in their 60s or even 70s now seem a spry as those in their 50s were in my youth.

    This is all anecdotal evidence of course, and only of slowing the ageing process, not stopping it.
    Three of my grandparents were dead before they reached the age I am now and the fourth wasn’teither well or active. My father, too, wasn’t well, and indeed died at 81. My mother, though, went on well into her 90’s.
    Certainly none of them would or indeed could have done what I propose to do later this morning..... have 45 minutes sigificant activity in the local gym..... bike, running track, weights and so on.

    Whether my mind is in good shape others can judge!
    I have outlived my Mother and Father. I admire your activity and your mind seems in good shape to me
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    Aarrgh. The cringe is off the chart. Jesus. She's like a puppet with the stings cut. Why do that if you know you're going to be absolutely crap at it?
    So what - are you so perfect
    I'm not perfect but I'd have the self-awareness not to make a twat of myself by going full Elaine Benes in that situation.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/13Y6LAZJqRspI4/giphy.gif
    My personal rule is ‘never dance sober’.

    I’m not sure the Prime Minister should follow it though.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    Aarrgh. The cringe is off the chart. Jesus. She's like a puppet with the stings cut. Why do that if you know you're going to be absolutely crap at it?
    So what - are you so perfect
    I'm not perfect but I'd have the self-awareness not to make a twat of myself by going full Elaine Benes in that situation.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/13Y6LAZJqRspI4/giphy.gif
    Seems she is getting quite a lot of congrats for having a go but really she can be critised for many things but this is not one of them
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778

    Morning all,

    Mark Lilla argues in his new book that the Dems can't win until they work their way past identity politic obsessions and start to articulate a vision for the whole of the US, based on what it means (rights and duties etc) to be a citizen.

    He also strongly argues that Dems have lost touch with the fly over states and their activist base of campus and metro area residents must try and engage and empathise with, say, a backwoods dweller in Virginia. The obsession with identity groups and movements has left blue collar and union activists lost and out of touch within the party, and crucially, there has been a failure to try and win at local level.

    What do the Dems envision the US should look like in ten years time?

    His summary:

    "Less marches and more mayors."

    I disagree profoundly with that.

    It should be fewer marches.
    :lol: My mistake.
    I thought you were quoting!
    not quite. i should have been clearer.

    he actually writes, "the age of movement politics is over, at least for now. We need no more marchers. We need more mayors..."
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Mrs May can't dance? There's me thinking that, with her easygoing, freewheeling personal style, she'd have natural rhythm.

    I admire her for having a go - I feel a lot of sympathy for her, she's the Millwall of Prime Ministers.
  • On the subject of the May’s dance: at the same event she announced a scholarship for 100 African students at British universities. I wonder how many people will hear of that compared to those that see a clip of the dance.

    This is not a partisan point: there are plenty of similar examples for leaders of all parties.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    Indeed, Mr Wales. She is much better at dancing than she is at running the government.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,159
    edited August 2018

    On the subject of the May’s dance: at the same event she announced a scholarship for 100 African students at British universities. I wonder how many people will hear of that compared to those that see a clip of the dance.

    This is not a partisan point: there are plenty of similar examples for leaders of all parties.

    Her speech was very impressive and prime ministerial. Her commitment that by 2022 the UK will be the biggest contributor to Africa in the G7 and virtually all the aid budget will go on investing with British Companies to grow Africa's economies and enjoy huge trading opportunities was well received
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Everything's going so well:

    Emmanuel Macron’s environment minister has dramatically quit the French government live on air, questioning whether the administration is truly committed to green issues.

    Nicolas Hulot, a high-profile former television personality, told France Inter radio on Tuesday morning that he no longer wanted to give the impression “that we're up to standard on these issues and so I am deciding to quit the government”.

    In an emotional address, the long-time high profile environmentalist said his tenure had been an “accumulation of disappointments”. He also claimed he felt “all alone” in pushing for environmental priorities in government.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nicolas-hulot-quits-france-emmanuel-macron-environment-resigns-green-a8510606.html
  • Morning all,

    Mark Lilla argues in his new book that the Dems can't win until they work their way past identity politic obsessions and start to articulate a vision for the whole of the US, based on what it means (rights and duties etc) to be a citizen.

    He also strongly argues that Dems have lost touch with the fly over states and their activist base of campus and metro area residents must try and engage and empathise with, say, a backwoods dweller in Virginia. The obsession with identity groups and movements has left blue collar and union activists lost and out of touch within the party, and crucially, there has been a failure to try and win at local level.

    What do the Dems envision the US should look like in ten years time?

    His summary:

    "Less marches and more mayors."

    I disagree profoundly with that.

    It should be fewer marches.
    :lol: My mistake.
    I thought you were quoting!
    not quite. i should have been clearer.

    he actually writes, "the age of movement politics is over, at least for now. We need no more marchers. We need more mayors..."
    Most marches just end up making the marchers feel better. I’m struggling to think of one that actually changed something although I’m sure that that’s down to my ignorance.
  • PClipp said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    Indeed, Mr Wales. She is much better at dancing than she is at running the government.
    Shame you couldn't resist political point scoring
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2018
    Useful translation guide:

    https://twitter.com/tomasth89/status/1034106511029686272

    For variety I'd amend: "Straight-talking.. = Unimaginative plodder"

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Morning all,

    Mark Lilla argues in his new book that the Dems can't win until they work their way past identity politic obsessions and start to articulate a vision for the whole of the US, based on what it means (rights and duties etc) to be a citizen.

    He also strongly argues that Dems have lost touch with the fly over states and their activist base of campus and metro area residents must try and engage and empathise with, say, a backwoods dweller in Virginia. The obsession with identity groups and movements has left blue collar and union activists lost and out of touch within the party, and crucially, there has been a failure to try and win at local level.

    What do the Dems envision the US should look like in ten years time?

    His summary:

    "Less marches and more mayors."

    I disagree profoundly with that.

    It should be fewer marches.
    :lol: My mistake.
    I thought you were quoting!
    not quite. i should have been clearer.

    he actually writes, "the age of movement politics is over, at least for now. We need no more marchers. We need more mayors..."
    Most marches just end up making the marchers feel better. I’m struggling to think of one that actually changed something although I’m sure that that’s down to my ignorance.
    I don't rate marches highly, but they are activism of the most noble sort compared to Twitterstorms.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    Everything's going so well:

    Emmanuel Macron’s environment minister has dramatically quit the French government live on air, questioning whether the administration is truly committed to green issues.

    Nicolas Hulot, a high-profile former television personality, told France Inter radio on Tuesday morning that he no longer wanted to give the impression “that we're up to standard on these issues and so I am deciding to quit the government”.

    In an emotional address, the long-time high profile environmentalist said his tenure had been an “accumulation of disappointments”. He also claimed he felt “all alone” in pushing for environmental priorities in government.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nicolas-hulot-quits-france-emmanuel-macron-environment-resigns-green-a8510606.html

    He is now free to enjoy Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot......
  • John_M said:

    Morning all,

    Mark Lilla argues in his new book that the Dems can't win until they work their way past identity politic obsessions and start to articulate a vision for the whole of the US, based on what it means (rights and duties etc) to be a citizen.

    He also strongly argues that Dems have lost touch with the fly over states and their activist base of campus and metro area residents must try and engage and empathise with, say, a backwoods dweller in Virginia. The obsession with identity groups and movements has left blue collar and union activists lost and out of touch within the party, and crucially, there has been a failure to try and win at local level.

    What do the Dems envision the US should look like in ten years time?

    His summary:

    "Less marches and more mayors."

    I disagree profoundly with that.

    It should be fewer marches.
    :lol: My mistake.
    I thought you were quoting!
    not quite. i should have been clearer.

    he actually writes, "the age of movement politics is over, at least for now. We need no more marchers. We need more mayors..."
    Most marches just end up making the marchers feel better. I’m struggling to think of one that actually changed something although I’m sure that that’s down to my ignorance.
    I don't rate marches highly, but they are activism of the most noble sort compared to Twitterstorms.
    I can’t argue with that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,297
    edited August 2018
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    Aarrgh. The cringe is off the chart. Jesus. She's like a puppet with the stings cut. Why do that if you know you're going to be absolutely crap at it?
    But kudos for not trying the Deodorant Dance of Gen Snowflake.

    She probably has a very good Foxtrot.

    I think the comments reflect more on the miserablists throwing the insults. Dancing = good.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    On the subject of the excellent video it’s notable that only Mr Fireand (ahem) myself have pointed out that under the US system one needs, to gain the Presidency, to win the Electoral College, not necessarily the popular vote. Neither Trump nor Bush (in 2000) won a majority of the popular vote. Trump won several states by such narrow margins that a swing of a couple of percentage points would have changed the result.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778

    Morning all,

    Mark Lilla argues in his new book that the Dems can't win until they work their way past identity politic obsessions and start to articulate a vision for the whole of the US, based on what it means (rights and duties etc) to be a citizen.

    He also strongly argues that Dems have lost touch with the fly over states and their activist base of campus and metro area residents must try and engage and empathise with, say, a backwoods dweller in Virginia. The obsession with identity groups and movements has left blue collar and union activists lost and out of touch within the party, and crucially, there has been a failure to try and win at local level.

    What do the Dems envision the US should look like in ten years time?

    His summary:

    "Less marches and more mayors."

    I disagree profoundly with that.

    It should be fewer marches.
    :lol: My mistake.
    I thought you were quoting!
    not quite. i should have been clearer.

    he actually writes, "the age of movement politics is over, at least for now. We need no more marchers. We need more mayors..."
    Most marches just end up making the marchers feel better. I’m struggling to think of one that actually changed something although I’m sure that that’s down to my ignorance.
    Lilla makes the point about Martin Luther King and Civil Rights. The moral crusade and marching was essential, but so also was the arm-twisting and cross-aisle deal making of LBJ.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Personal statement. .

    At 75 and my wife at 79 I agree entirely with your post

    I have no interest anymore in being involved with managing clubs or organisations having been heavily involved most of my life and prefer to focus attention on my wife and family, especially our grandchildren

    While the Queen is exceptional I would not be attracted to vote for any politician older than myself. There is a time when the batton should be handed on to a younger person
    Thank you Mr G. While we are at different points on the political spectrum we do seem to agree on quite a few things!
    It probably makes a difference that Trump has presumably had the best care money can buy throughout his life. If you have the money, healthcare in the US is great - the problem is, most people don’t
    Not sure any amount of money stops the natural ageing process
    It helps a lot. Do you think the Queen is still being in good health at 92 is purely by chance?
    She is far and away the exception to the rule
    What about Prince Philip?

    My impression is that to a certain extent it applies to our society as a whole: people in their 60s or even 70s now seem a spry as those in their 50s were in my youth.

    This is all anecdotal evidence of course, and only of slowing the ageing process, not stopping it.
    Three of my grandparents were dead before they reached the age I am now and the fourth wasn’teither well or active. My father, too, wasn’t well, and indeed died at 81. My mother, though, went on well into her 90’s.
    Certainly none of them would or indeed could have done what I propose to do later this morning..... have 45 minutes sigificant activity in the local gym..... bike, running track, weights and so on.

    Whether my mind is in good shape others can judge!
    I have outlived my Mother and Father. I admire your activity and your mind seems in good shape to me
    Last year I started doing some gym training. As a result of some arm exercises I have for the last few months ended up with a really painful shoulder and upper arm which, despite physio, has not got better. I will be going for a scan shortly as I may have torn a tendon. It should, once the right diagnosis has been made, be curable.

    But experiences like that don’t make it any easier to do what I know I should. Oddly, I can still do pretty vigorous gardening, which keeps me flexible and strong.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    .
    I can dance. It’s just that no-one else, especially my family, accept that I can!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    May's coming in, 12:30 flight
    But her guilty feet have got no rhythm
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Cyclefree said:


    Last year I started doing some gym training. As a result of some arm exercises I have for the last few months ended up with a really painful shoulder and upper arm which, despite physio, has not got better.

    Sorry if this is going to sound like horse, bolt and stable advice but correct form free weights are miles better than machines, as those tend to massively restrict range of motion.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2018
    Wise words from Sir John:

    In short, polls that ask people whether the ‘public’ should have a vote usually record a higher level of support than those that just ask whether there should be another referendum. Equally, polls that do not specify what the alternative would be to endorsing whatever deal is reached tend to secure higher levels of support than those that indicate that the choice would be between leaving (on whatever terms have been agreed) and remaining.

    So, whether or not there is majority support (or more accurately, a plurality of support) for a second referendum is less clear than might be imagined from an initial, quick glance at the headline polling results. Certainly, if we are to use polling to evaluate the level of support for the kind of referendum being promoted by The People’s Vote, that is, one in which the alternative to accepting whatever deal had been agreed would be to remain in the EU, it would seem essential to refer only to those polls that make clear that the choice in another ballot would be between Leave and Remain. Meanwhile, it is at least debatable as to whether it is wise to use wording that might be thought to be playing into the populist sentiment that exists among some Leave voters. Maybe if the issue does become more pressing in the autumn, opponents of Brexit would prove able to invoke such sentiment in support of another ballot. But equally, perhaps, that support might evaporate if it became clear to Leave voters that a second ballot would revisit the issue of whether Britain should leave the EU in the first place.



    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/a-question-of-wording-another-look-at-polling-on-a-second-referendum/

    So,

    LEAVE supporters who don't want a vote should poll on whether there should be ANOTHER REFERENDUM on the deal or REMAINING, and

    REMAIN supporters who do want a vote should poll on whether there should be a 'PEOPLE's VOTE'.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    If we can't criticise the Prime Minister for her dancing, and the lady is no Ed Balls, we should blame her aides for getting her to dance. Theresa May and Gordon Brown both suffered from handlers who would set up stunts ideally suited to their predecessors, Cameron and Blair, but which made the new Premiers look stilted and awkward, and, worse, negated what were supposed to be their own special characteristics. Lynton Crosby's disastrous GE2017 campaign seemed to have been written for David Cameron.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    I see we're back at the 'Cameron buying fish from Morrisons' level of political discourse.

    Which is at least a step up from Brexit ...
  • Maybot = poundshop Gordon brown....as somebody once said.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    edited August 2018

    Wise words from Sir John

    "Undoubtedly a case for second EU referendum"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJBoSrIW04
  • glwglw Posts: 9,916
    Rex Tillerson was right about Trump.
  • I see we're back at the 'Cameron buying fish from Morrisons' level of political discourse.

    Which is at least a step up from Brexit ...

    Good-natured piss taking of politicians should be the default setting. It’s a shame in a way that the more significant points of the visit may not get through, but this has to be better than trying to work out just how bigoted or anti-Semitic a politician is.

  • Al Jazeera have a second documentary on cricket match fixing coming out....

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/45327855
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    PClipp said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    Indeed, Mr Wales. She is much better at dancing than she is at running the government.
    Shame you couldn't resist political point scoring
    I was only agreeing with you!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Last year I started doing some gym training. As a result of some arm exercises I have for the last few months ended up with a really painful shoulder and upper arm which, despite physio, has not got better.

    Sorry if this is going to sound like horse, bolt and stable advice but correct form free weights are miles better than machines, as those tend to massively restrict range of motion.
    It was when I was lifting a 1kg weight that I felt the pain. God knows what caused it. Irritatingly, I can’t even swim now, other than on my back kicking my legs like a child. I think I’ll stick to walking and shelve any ambition to have Megan Markle-like upper arms.......
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Wise words from Sir John

    "Undoubtedly a case for second EU referendum"

    He hasn't read the polling..."second referendum" is a killer......
  • Has Alex Jones taken over his twitter?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    He and Corbyn should get together. Between them, when not massaging their egos and thin tender skins, they can come up with proposals to close down the free press on both sides of the Atlantic. Then they can invite Putin to join them and, hey presto, they will have recreated the WW2 Alliance - but for the 21st century!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752

    Oh lord..he's been googling himself.....

    That could lead to a balls up if he confuses Google and Twitter.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,081
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    I can't dance either, so I'm even more inclined to give her credit for honouring her hosts.

    I normally lurk & don't post much, thinking I haven't got anything interesting to say. But sometimes I ascribe it to lacking the essential ability to keep repeating myself in different words. :smile:

    Good morning, everyone.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    If we can't criticise the Prime Minister for her dancing, and the lady is no Ed Balls, we should blame her aides for getting her to dance. Theresa May and Gordon Brown both suffered from handlers who would set up stunts ideally suited to their predecessors, Cameron and Blair, but which made the new Premiers look stilted and awkward, and, worse, negated what were supposed to be their own special characteristics. Lynton Crosby's disastrous GE2017 campaign seemed to have been written for David Cameron.
    It was spontaneous and something that you cannot plan for. It was not a stunt and she was well received at the school where she announced 100 students will be sponsored to go to UK universities
  • glwglw Posts: 9,916
    I'm looking forward to hearing the GOP defence of a free press.
  • glw said:

    I'm looking forward to hearing the GOP defence of a free press.

    I am looking forward to that "journalist" Owen Jones going apeshit at Trump's take on the free press....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    Interesting on the complexity of "rolling over" trade deals using the example of Ford's operations between the UK and South Africa. @ralphmalph take note.

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1034368892540477441
    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1034368894977433601
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    Have to say G, I never thought I would see the day someone dance worse than myself.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612

    Wise words from Sir John

    "Undoubtedly a case for second EU referendum"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJBoSrIW04
    I think I understand what John Major is doing. He wants May to reverse Brexit so that she can lose the next election so spectacularly that everyone will forget that he lead the Conservative Party to a historic disaster himself in 1997.

    Why, oh why, are we expected to listen to and value the opinions of a man who was an utter failure as PM? Surely his record of failure would suggest that we should do the opposite of whatever he thinks?
  • malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    Have to say G, I never thought I would see the day someone dance worse than myself.
    She was a lot better than I could do, even my granddaughter turns me down when I suggest we try ballet together !!!!!
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Another morning wasted dealing with the NHS. When are we going to sort these clowns out? This sacred cow is a disorganised and ineffective mess. However, an attempt to reform the service is attacked as backdoor privatisation. Now, that's an idea ......
  • THE woman who led the probe into alleged sexual misconduct by Alex Salmond is married to an SNP activist, the Herald can reveal, debunking a Nationalist conspiracy theory.

    Elements of the Yes movement have suggested Permanent Secretary Leslie Evans, the Scottish Government’s top official, is married to a former head of MI5, Lord Jonathan Evans.

    The claim has being used to paint the former First Minister as the victim of a Unionist plot, with people tweeting at Ms Evan’s official account demanding she clarify the position.

    SNP MP Angus Brendan MacNeil added to the febrile atmosphere yesterday, retweeting a message saying “I stand with Alex Salmond” against the “British establishment”.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16602169.alex-salmond-probe-conspiracy-theory-about-mi5-debunked/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    I am not a fan of Donald Trump and those tweets are fairly stupid but the replies on those threads are just bat shit mental.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    Aarrgh. The cringe is off the chart. Jesus. She's like a puppet with the stings cut. Why do that if you know you're going to be absolutely crap at it?
    So what - are you so perfect
    I'm not perfect but I'd have the self-awareness not to make a twat of myself by going full Elaine Benes in that situation.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/13Y6LAZJqRspI4/giphy.gif
    My personal rule is ‘never dance sober’.

    I’m not sure the Prime Minister should follow it though.
    rules to add to that:

    -never argue when you're drunk
    -never re-tweet when you're angry
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    edited August 2018

    THE woman who led the probe into alleged sexual misconduct by Alex Salmond is married to an SNP activist, the Herald can reveal, debunking a Nationalist conspiracy theory.

    Elements of the Yes movement have suggested Permanent Secretary Leslie Evans, the Scottish Government’s top official, is married to a former head of MI5, Lord Jonathan Evans.

    The claim has being used to paint the former First Minister as the victim of a Unionist plot, with people tweeting at Ms Evan’s official account demanding she clarify the position.

    SNP MP Angus Brendan MacNeil added to the febrile atmosphere yesterday, retweeting a message saying “I stand with Alex Salmond” against the “British establishment”.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16602169.alex-salmond-probe-conspiracy-theory-about-mi5-debunked/

    "I stand with Alex Salmond....just, not too close...."
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    Aarrgh. The cringe is off the chart. Jesus. She's like a puppet with the stings cut. Why do that if you know you're going to be absolutely crap at it?
    So what - are you so perfect
    I'm not perfect but I'd have the self-awareness not to make a twat of myself by going full Elaine Benes in that situation.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/13Y6LAZJqRspI4/giphy.gif
    My personal rule is ‘never dance sober’.

    I’m not sure the Prime Minister should follow it though.
    A wise piece of advice about never dancing sober.
  • Wise words from Sir John

    "Undoubtedly a case for second EU referendum"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJBoSrIW04
    I think I understand what John Major is doing. He wants May to reverse Brexit so that she can lose the next election so spectacularly that everyone will forget that he lead the Conservative Party to a historic disaster himself in 1997.

    Why, oh why, are we expected to listen to and value the opinions of a man who was an utter failure as PM? Surely his record of failure would suggest that we should do the opposite of whatever he thinks?
    I have no brief with the peoples vote but your conspiracy idea is for the birds

    Major is no different from the many of the elite who are trying to stop Brexit but they will not succeed. However, equally your hard Brexit will not succeed. You are the two ends of the argument and both will fail as compromise wins the day
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Fenman said:

    Another morning wasted dealing with the NHS. When are we going to sort these clowns out? This sacred cow is a disorganised and ineffective mess. However, an attempt to reform the service is attacked as backdoor privatisation. Now, that's an idea ......

    OK, I’ll bite. What’s happened this time?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    THE woman who led the probe into alleged sexual misconduct by Alex Salmond is married to an SNP activist, the Herald can reveal, debunking a Nationalist conspiracy theory.

    Elements of the Yes movement have suggested Permanent Secretary Leslie Evans, the Scottish Government’s top official, is married to a former head of MI5, Lord Jonathan Evans.

    The claim has being used to paint the former First Minister as the victim of a Unionist plot, with people tweeting at Ms Evan’s official account demanding she clarify the position.

    SNP MP Angus Brendan MacNeil added to the febrile atmosphere yesterday, retweeting a message saying “I stand with Alex Salmond” against the “British establishment”.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16602169.alex-salmond-probe-conspiracy-theory-about-mi5-debunked/

    this is a runner - buy popcorn
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    ydoethur said:

    Hasn't mike got a nice tempting 50/1 shot for us fpr 2020?

    The only current 50-1 shot with a realistic chance is Michelle Obama.

    But I very much doubt if she will be running.
    Martin O'Malley!

    Competent, experienced, good speaker, not too old, not too crazy. Not saying that's the perfect place to run from this time but somebody has to do it.
    image

    The answer is Beto O'Rourke, now only 1% behind Ted Cruz.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    THE woman who led the probe into alleged sexual misconduct by Alex Salmond is married to an SNP activist, the Herald can reveal, debunking a Nationalist conspiracy theory.

    Elements of the Yes movement have suggested Permanent Secretary Leslie Evans, the Scottish Government’s top official, is married to a former head of MI5, Lord Jonathan Evans.

    The claim has being used to paint the former First Minister as the victim of a Unionist plot, with people tweeting at Ms Evan’s official account demanding she clarify the position.

    SNP MP Angus Brendan MacNeil added to the febrile atmosphere yesterday, retweeting a message saying “I stand with Alex Salmond” against the “British establishment”.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16602169.alex-salmond-probe-conspiracy-theory-about-mi5-debunked/

    Of course she is. She is head of the Scottish Civil Service. How would she get such a position otherwise?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Al Jazeera have a second documentary on cricket match fixing coming out....

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/45327855

    We might need it if we can't sort the batting out.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    SNP MP Angus Brendan MacNeil added to the febrile atmosphere yesterday, retweeting a message saying “I stand with Alex Salmond” against the “British establishment”.

    He and Pete Wishart must have a bet going.

    Who can say the dumbest thing and get it reported...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    I can't dance either, so I'm even more inclined to give her credit for honouring her hosts.

    I normally lurk & don't post much, thinking I haven't got anything interesting to say. But sometimes I ascribe it to lacking the essential ability to keep repeating myself in different words. :smile:

    Good morning, everyone.
    Yes, we should file that as trivia, like Corbyn's shirt button (I expect he thinks nostalgically about when that was the thing people were criticising). If she'd refused to have a go she'd be criticised for that instead.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Fenman said:

    Another morning wasted dealing with the NHS. When are we going to sort these clowns out? This sacred cow is a disorganised and ineffective mess. However, an attempt to reform the service is attacked as backdoor privatisation. Now, that's an idea ......

    There is a reason for that. It is because most attempts to reform the service are backdoor privatisations. And those that aren't are often aimed at solving problems which disproportionately affect politicians, who are almost the only people who care about whether their home GPs can share notes electronically with their London GPs, for instance.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047

    Fenman said:

    Another morning wasted dealing with the NHS. When are we going to sort these clowns out? This sacred cow is a disorganised and ineffective mess. However, an attempt to reform the service is attacked as backdoor privatisation. Now, that's an idea ......

    OK, I’ll bite. What’s happened this time?
    Receptionist: 'Do you need all these medications?'
    Me:'How would I know, I'm not a Doctor. They prescribed them.'
  • The MP, 57, was criticised for claiming nine nights at a luxury hotel in Kensington costing £1,350 in 2009, during his relationship with Miss Cohen.

    The expenses watchdog Ipsa, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, has now come under fire as it is revealed the transparent expenses system can be used to fund secret gagging orders.

    Official records show Mr Mahmood claimed £900 expenses for ‘lawyers’ fees’, and £1,500 in ‘legal costs’.

    During the tribunal he was also granted nearly £37,000 from Ipsa to pay staff covering for Miss Cohen.

    Claims of religious discrimination first surfaced when Mr Mahmood disciplined Miss Cohen after she called another Labour MP, Naz Shah, an ‘anti-Zionist’ in a tweet in 2016.

    Mr Mahmood suspended his former lover and began an internal disciplinary process against her. Meanwhile, Naz Shah was suspended for anti-Semitic Facebook posts.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6104461/Labour-frontbencher-used-40-000-taxpayers-cash-bid-gag-Jewish-ex-lover-assistant.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited August 2018
    deleted
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    Wise words from Sir John

    "Undoubtedly a case for second EU referendum"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJBoSrIW04
    I think I understand what John Major is doing. He wants May to reverse Brexit so that she can lose the next election so spectacularly that everyone will forget that he lead the Conservative Party to a historic disaster himself in 1997.

    Why, oh why, are we expected to listen to and value the opinions of a man who was an utter failure as PM? Surely his record of failure would suggest that we should do the opposite of whatever he thinks?
    Yes.
    That can be the only reason for it.
    Definitely.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    I can't dance either, so I'm even more inclined to give her credit for honouring her hosts.

    I normally lurk & don't post much, thinking I haven't got anything interesting to say. But sometimes I ascribe it to lacking the essential ability to keep repeating myself in different words. :smile:

    Good morning, everyone.
    Yes, we should file that as trivia, like Corbyn's shirt button (I expect he thinks nostalgically about when that was the thing people were criticising). If she'd refused to have a go she'd be criticised for that instead.

    Politicians should avoid, if at all possible, dancing solo. It never looks good - think Justin Trudeau, who of all current politicians you might think would be able to pull it off; he didn't. But sometimes, you just can't avoid it without looking churlish and disrespectful.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I don't know if anyone has been following the Simon Maginn/JK Rowling spat on Twitter.

    Maginn followed me when he joined Twitter and I followed him back. He is a dyed-in-the-wool Corbynite and loves to 'debate' to the death. He's a borderline troll who tweets/debates constantly about anti-semitism, always defending Corbyn.

    I gave up trying to reason with him because he just goes on and on. Extremely supercilious.

    It's interesting Rowling has called him out. His response is to allege that a rich powerful person is bullying a little person.

    I suspect his style (passive, aggressive... wolf in sheep's clothing) and his cry of victimhood (when challenged) is a microcosm of what we'll witness from the Corbynites when the wheels finally come off.

    Maginn portrays himself as a nice polite person who cares for the poor and needy, but in reality he's a nasty obsessive bastard.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    I can't dance either, so I'm even more inclined to give her credit for honouring her hosts.

    I normally lurk & don't post much, thinking I haven't got anything interesting to say. But sometimes I ascribe it to lacking the essential ability to keep repeating myself in different words. :smile:

    Good morning, everyone.
    Yes, we should file that as trivia, like Corbyn's shirt button (I expect he thinks nostalgically about when that was the thing people were criticising). If she'd refused to have a go she'd be criticised for that instead.

    Umfrage Mittel Deutschland

    Quite how Merkel has managed to get AfD plus Die Linke to 43% is a case study in itself. So now nearly 1 in 2 East germans vote for the extremes.

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article181334724/Sachsen-Sachsen-Anhalt-und-Thueringen-CDU-mit-deutlichen-Verlusten.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    The MP, 57, was criticised for claiming nine nights at a luxury hotel in Kensington costing £1,350 in 2009, during his relationship with Miss Cohen.

    The expenses watchdog Ipsa, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, has now come under fire as it is revealed the transparent expenses system can be used to fund secret gagging orders.

    Official records show Mr Mahmood claimed £900 expenses for ‘lawyers’ fees’, and £1,500 in ‘legal costs’.

    During the tribunal he was also granted nearly £37,000 from Ipsa to pay staff covering for Miss Cohen.

    Claims of religious discrimination first surfaced when Mr Mahmood disciplined Miss Cohen after she called another Labour MP, Naz Shah, an ‘anti-Zionist’ in a tweet in 2016.

    Mr Mahmood suspended his former lover and began an internal disciplinary process against her. Meanwhile, Naz Shah was suspended for anti-Semitic Facebook posts.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6104461/Labour-frontbencher-used-40-000-taxpayers-cash-bid-gag-Jewish-ex-lover-assistant.html

    If I am reading that correctly £37k of the £40k was spent on replacement staff after someone had been dismissed. Legal costs were spent amounting to £2,400 in respect of the dismissal of someone who was effectively on the public payroll.

    The circumstances of the dismissal look pretty typical for Labour these days and the fact that they were former lovers certainly adds a soupcon of excitement but the IPSA angle looks completely ridiculous to me.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537



    What about Prince Philip?

    My impression is that to a certain extent it applies to our society as a whole: people in their 60s or even 70s now seem a spry as those in their 50s were in my youth.

    This is all anecdotal evidence of course, and only of slowing the ageing process, not stopping it.

    I agree with that but I am talking mid seventies and to your eighties.

    There is a marked downturn in mobility and stamina in most everyone I know in this age group
    I've seen some studies on this - essentially people are living longer AND people are entering a period of physical decline later - it's not, as was once feared, that most people live longer but have 20 years of physical misery. But of course BigG is right that it's just a shift, and age catches us all in the end. Most people are OK until something drastic happens, rather than a gradual decline.

    Anecdotally, I'm 68 and was recently promoted to a more demanding job, as well as still doing another job on the side; my parents had both retired by now. I don't sleep as long as I used to, but otherwise I don't notice much change. There is however a great deal of luck in it and I'm aware it won't last forever/

  • Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/itvnews/status/1034381942999920640

    I bet it won't cover historic cases....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Someone's not having a great morning.....

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1034378693370630145
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    edited August 2018
    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Another morning wasted dealing with the NHS. When are we going to sort these clowns out? This sacred cow is a disorganised and ineffective mess. However, an attempt to reform the service is attacked as backdoor privatisation. Now, that's an idea ......

    OK, I’ll bite. What’s happened this time?
    Receptionist: 'Do you need all these medications?'
    Me:'How would I know, I'm not a Doctor. They prescribed them.'
    Badly phrased, or explained, question. Too often, especially when medications .... e.g. analgesics .........are prescribed ‘as required”.... prn on the prescription form...... patients automatically request them each month, consequently building stocks.
    Which is wasteful. Consequently receptionists, pharmacists etc are asked to ask such questions.
    Same applies to ‘as required’asthma inhalers alongside routinely used ones.
    It’s amazing, the quanities some people manage to build up.

    Hope this helps.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    I can't dance either, so I'm even more inclined to give her credit for honouring her hosts.

    I normally lurk & don't post much, thinking I haven't got anything interesting to say. But sometimes I ascribe it to lacking the essential ability to keep repeating myself in different words. :smile:

    Good morning, everyone.
    Yes, we should file that as trivia, like Corbyn's shirt button (I expect he thinks nostalgically about when that was the thing people were criticising). If she'd refused to have a go she'd be criticised for that instead.

    Politicians should avoid, if at all possible, dancing solo. It never looks good - think Justin Trudeau, who of all current politicians you might think would be able to pull it off; he didn't. But sometimes, you just can't avoid it without looking churlish and disrespectful.
    So, things modern politicians should never do:

    - solo dancing

    - eat bacon sarnies

    - hold a banana

    - hold Donald Trump's hand

    - punch members of the public (unless John Prescott)

    - invade foreign countries on the basis of a dodgy dossier

    - have an opinion
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Wise words from Sir John

    "Undoubtedly a case for second EU referendum"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJBoSrIW04
    I think I understand what John Major is doing. He wants May to reverse Brexit so that she can lose the next election so spectacularly that everyone will forget that he lead the Conservative Party to a historic disaster himself in 1997.

    Why, oh why, are we expected to listen to and value the opinions of a man who was an utter failure as PM? Surely his record of failure would suggest that we should do the opposite of whatever he thinks?
    I have no brief with the peoples vote but your conspiracy idea is for the birds

    Major is no different from the many of the elite who are trying to stop Brexit but they will not succeed. However, equally your hard Brexit will not succeed. You are the two ends of the argument and both will fail as compromise wins the day
    Do you happen to have a chart setting out who comprises the elite? Is it just people who take the view that Brexit is at best unwise and as it appears to be happening fundamentally deranged or are there other tests?
  • State schools have been accused of “gaming the system” by excluding thousands of badly performing students in the months before their GCSE exams.

    Almost 13,000 teenagers did not have results recorded in league tables last year despite appearing on their schools’ rolls a year earlier, an investigation by The Times has found. The number of pupils removed in the months before exams had been just over 9,000 in each of the previous two years.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weak-pupils-expelled-as-heads-game-exam-tables-zwnfrd8ck
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    How many guesses the Guardian mentions which government or Home Secretary refused him re-admission.....in 2005?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/28/fight-of-his-life-boxer-trapped-in-jamaica-for-13-years-allowed-back-to-uk?CMP=twt_gu
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504



    What about Prince Philip?

    My impression is that to a certain extent it applies to our society as a whole: people in their 60s or even 70s now seem a spry as those in their 50s were in my youth.

    This is all anecdotal evidence of course, and only of slowing the ageing process, not stopping it.

    I agree with that but I am talking mid seventies and to your eighties.

    There is a marked downturn in mobility and stamina in most everyone I know in this age group
    I've seen some studies on this - essentially people are living longer AND people are entering a period of physical decline later - it's not, as was once feared, that most people live longer but have 20 years of physical misery. But of course BigG is right that it's just a shift, and age catches us all in the end. Most people are OK until something drastic happens, rather than a gradual decline.

    Anecdotally, I'm 68 and was recently promoted to a more demanding job, as well as still doing another job on the side; my parents had both retired by now. I don't sleep as long as I used to, but otherwise I don't notice much change. There is however a great deal of luck in it and I'm aware it won't last forever/

    Yet again I agree with Mr G. I worked full time until I was 65, never had a day off etc, etc, then found myself a couple of part-time jobs until I was 70, when I decided that registration and insurance costs weren’t taking too long to pay. Also you don’t weant a pharmacist who finds it increasing difficult to keep up to date.
    So I stopped completely.
    Almost immediately things started to go wrong, although I’ve recovered, more or less from most of them.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/itvnews/status/1034381942999920640

    I bet it won't cover historic cases....
    The key bit is:

    "“There may be addendums, put into the rulebook, which weaken the force of the IHRA examples” said another NEC member.)"

    So they will adopt the definition and examples and then include something else as a get-out clause for their friends.

    Won't satisfy anyone.
  • How many guesses the Guardian mentions which government or Home Secretary refused him re-admission.....in 2005?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/28/fight-of-his-life-boxer-trapped-in-jamaica-for-13-years-allowed-back-to-uk?CMP=twt_gu

    Was it Mrs May?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Another morning wasted dealing with the NHS. When are we going to sort these clowns out? This sacred cow is a disorganised and ineffective mess. However, an attempt to reform the service is attacked as backdoor privatisation. Now, that's an idea ......

    OK, I’ll bite. What’s happened this time?
    Receptionist: 'Do you need all these medications?'
    Me:'How would I know, I'm not a Doctor. They prescribed them.'
    Not sure why that is an "NHS issue", rather than an issue with a particular receptionist.

    Unless you are saying that this person was challenging you in order to see if they could save some money, which seems to be way above the pay grade of any receptionist I've dealt with.

    Plenty of them can be a bit gatekeepery with access to the GP, but that's another story.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    How many guesses the Guardian mentions which government or Home Secretary refused him re-admission.....in 2005?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/28/fight-of-his-life-boxer-trapped-in-jamaica-for-13-years-allowed-back-to-uk?CMP=twt_gu

    Was it Mrs May?
    If it had been I'm sure they would have mentioned it. In the headline.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/itvnews/status/1034381942999920640

    I bet it won't cover historic cases....
    The key bit is:

    "“There may be addendums, put into the rulebook, which weaken the force of the IHRA examples” said another NEC member.)"

    So they will adopt the definition and examples and then include something else as a get-out clause for their friends.

    Won't satisfy anyone.
    It is too late. The damage has been done, such as it is: most voters will have been completely oblivious to any of this summer's politics.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    This would be the Japan which is involved in increasingly confrontational disagreements with China about sundry islands in the Pacific? Well, that's...brave.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    I can't dance either, so I'm even more inclined to give her credit for honouring her hosts.

    I normally lurk & don't post much, thinking I haven't got anything interesting to say. But sometimes I ascribe it to lacking the essential ability to keep repeating myself in different words. :smile:

    Good morning, everyone.
    Yes, we should file that as trivia, like Corbyn's shirt button (I expect he thinks nostalgically about when that was the thing people were criticising). If she'd refused to have a go she'd be criticised for that instead.

    Politicians should avoid, if at all possible, dancing solo. It never looks good - think Justin Trudeau, who of all current politicians you might think would be able to pull it off; he didn't. But sometimes, you just can't avoid it without looking churlish and disrespectful.
    So, things modern politicians should never do:

    - solo dancing

    - eat bacon sarnies

    - hold a banana

    - hold Donald Trump's hand

    - punch members of the public (unless John Prescott)

    - invade foreign countries on the basis of a dodgy dossier

    - have an opinion
    Lol. But no, having opinions is a good thing. The opinions themselves may be mad or bad but that's a different thing.

    As an aside, the bacon in the sandwich was a detail, and not the pertinent one.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/itvnews/status/1034381942999920640

    I bet it won't cover historic cases....
    The key bit is:

    "“There may be addendums, put into the rulebook, which weaken the force of the IHRA examples” said another NEC member.)"

    So they will adopt the definition and examples and then include something else as a get-out clause for their friends.

    Won't satisfy anyone.
    Will satisfy the Glorious Leader.....


  • What about Prince Philip?

    My impression is that to a certain extent it applies to our society as a whole: people in their 60s or even 70s now seem a spry as those in their 50s were in my youth.

    This is all anecdotal evidence of course, and only of slowing the ageing process, not stopping it.

    I agree with that but I am talking mid seventies and to your eighties.

    There is a marked downturn in mobility and stamina in most everyone I know in this age group
    I've seen some studies on this - essentially people are living longer AND people are entering a period of physical decline later - it's not, as was once feared, that most people live longer but have 20 years of physical misery. But of course BigG is right that it's just a shift, and age catches us all in the end. Most people are OK until something drastic happens, rather than a gradual decline.

    Anecdotally, I'm 68 and was recently promoted to a more demanding job, as well as still doing another job on the side; my parents had both retired by now. I don't sleep as long as I used to, but otherwise I don't notice much change. There is however a great deal of luck in it and I'm aware it won't last forever/

    I have noticed my reduced mobility and stamina over the last couple of years and certainly now in my mid seventies I do not feel motivated to be involved whereas when I was younger I was involved in all sorts of organisations as well as running my business.

    It has not helped that following my Greek Cruise from Rome in May and two 1,000 plus miles trips to the north of Scotland in six weeks I have suffered a break down in my knees resulting in a lot of pain and a referral to an orthopaedic surgeon. Just a few years ago the strenous activity involved in the flying and the cruise with the driving would not have caused today's issues.

    However, a dear Uncle on my wife's side who was terminally ill commented when asked how he was :

    'Why should a breathing man complain'

    He died three weeks later, God bless him
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Trump to take on Google:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1034373707047882759

    Grab the popcorn kids.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/itvnews/status/1034381942999920640

    I bet it won't cover historic cases....
    The key bit is:

    "“There may be addendums, put into the rulebook, which weaken the force of the IHRA examples” said another NEC member.)"

    So they will adopt the definition and examples and then include something else as a get-out clause for their friends.

    Won't satisfy anyone.
    Someone (Mike?) pointed out yesterday that apart from the internal divisions being sharpened and highlighted by this, there's also a huge opportunity cost. Labour has spent all summer fighting itself over an issue that most of the public think is, essentially, a side-issue other than in what it might reveal about attitude. It could have been putting far more pressure on the government either to dance to its tune on, say, a second referendum (though of course it would need a coherent tune first), or alternatively, simply exposing and needling the government's own divisions. By engaging in abstruse internal debate, it's missing out on its main job. But then engaging in abstruse debate has been the hobby of the far left for decades.
  • So I reckon this guarantees Labour votes against any deal

    https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1034390331352129536
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake give the woman a break
    I am willing to criticise her for her numerous failings, but bad dancing.... that would be hypocrisy of the highest order.
    I can’t dance either. She’s giving it a go to be polite to her hosts. Unkind to criticise her for that.

    We are all, in one way or another, hypocrites. If hypocrisy stopped us commenting, this site would have to shut down immediately.
    I can't dance either, so I'm even more inclined to give her credit for honouring her hosts.

    I normally lurk & don't post much, thinking I haven't got anything interesting to say. But sometimes I ascribe it to lacking the essential ability to keep repeating myself in different words. :smile:

    Good morning, everyone.
    Yes, we should file that as trivia, like Corbyn's shirt button (I expect he thinks nostalgically about when that was the thing people were criticising). If she'd refused to have a go she'd be criticised for that instead.

    Politicians should avoid, if at all possible, dancing solo. It never looks good - think Justin Trudeau, who of all current politicians you might think would be able to pull it off; he didn't. But sometimes, you just can't avoid it without looking churlish and disrespectful.
    Who cares? Honestly? Dancing-gate is like the bacon sandwich and England flag-house incidents all over again. Just utterly trivial nonsense whipped up by people with no life and nothing better to do. Get over it, would be my sage advice.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318



    What about Prince Philip?

    My impression is that to a certain extent it applies to our society as a whole: people in their 60s or even 70s now seem a spry as those in their 50s were in my youth.

    This is all anecdotal evidence of course, and only of slowing the ageing process, not stopping it.

    I agree with that but I am talking mid seventies and to your eighties.

    There is a marked downturn in mobility and stamina in most everyone I know in this age group
    I've seen some studies on this - essentially people are living longer AND people are entering a period of physical decline later - it's not, as was once feared, that most people live longer but have 20 years of physical misery. But of course BigG is right that it's just a shift, and age catches us all in the end. Most people are OK until something drastic happens, rather than a gradual decline.

    Anecdotally, I'm 68 and was recently promoted to a more demanding job, as well as still doing another job on the side; my parents had both retired by now. I don't sleep as long as I used to, but otherwise I don't notice much change. There is however a great deal of luck in it and I'm aware it won't last forever/

    The key I think is to remain both physically and mentally active for as long as possible. My mother had some physical infirmity in the last couple of years of her life but it was only until her last year that she eventually got a stick as she refused to accept that she was getting old. Her mind was as sharp as a pin until the day she died. And she - and her children - were blessed that she died in her sleep in her own bed, with no pain or humiliation or degradation (bed pans etc). And, yes, there is luck involved too. But some people seem to diminish when they retire and shrink into themselves, which cannot be good.
This discussion has been closed.