Wow. You know how to use t'Internet. Go to the top of the class.
I know of that research (and in fact linked to a better version straight from Amnesty), but he was making the claim, and it's good to see what *he* was basing his claim on.
For instance, dig deep and as far as I can see the research was concentrating on female MPs, and therefore not *all* MPs. whilst it might be a good assumption that female MPs might get more abuse, that isn't provably the case.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
Have the periodic claims that EU countries with their own problems with the EUssr would support the UK completely shrivelled away?
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
I really doubt we will be nouvelle Minsk!
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
...
???
.
...
Theroritically yes, if the EU wish to upset every airline in the world. In practice one assumes that they would agree themselves to keep existing plane parts produced before Brexit date certified, while grounding all British registered planes (and pilots, and airlines, and air traffic controllers etc, including private pilots and small planes).
Note that this is nothing to to with any trade agreements on who can fly commercial passenger planes where, that’s a completely different subject in itself.
The interesting point is that if the EU say no EU manufacturer can use UK made spare parts after Brexit, because they are not certified, but the FAA says we have an agreement with the UK and the spare parts from the UK are certified for use. Who has shot themselves in the foot.
The EU will argue that the FAA doesn’t have that authority, because the UK have no right to sign such an agreement without their own certifying authority (and associated testing and paperwork). The Americans (and the Chinese) could well get away with it in practice.
There would be an awful lot of very upset people around the world, and it would be the EU they’d be upset at for refusing to even discuss aviation as a subject up until now. Their only comment on the subject has been the EASA ‘Notice to Stakeholders’ linked above.
There’s definitely now the outline of a thread header in my head about Brexit and Aviation.
Please do write it. I really don’t understand why the EU has the right, apparently, to stop all flights in the world.
I’ll have a go this week. Basically it’s because it’s a highly regulated industry and the EU are the regulator. Imagine if (in your industry) the FSA/FCA was an EU QUANGO, so they said that when we left the EU nothing sold in London would be regulated, which would mean in practice that insurance would be invalid and licenced professionals no longer licenced. We would have two real options, either to sign up as an associate member of the EU quango (as do Switzerland etc at the moment) or to replicate their functions ourself (which would take more time and money than we have available, for no discernible benefit).
___________________________________________ A recent survey found that a third of all abuse sent to politicians goes to the shadow home secretary, one of Jeremy Corbyn’s closest allies, who 30 years ago became Britain’s first black female MP. ____________________________________________
_____________________________________________ Diane Abbott alone received almost half of all the abusive tweets sent to female MPs in the run-up to the general election, research by Amnesty International has revealed. _____________________________________________
(Snip)
I treat research into this matter with a certain amount of suspicion. In this case, it covers only one form of abuse (twitter), and does not say what is, or is not, abuse - and there are worrying indications that it might not exactly be scientific.
As an example, Abbott's performance during the campaign was lamentable. Saying that is not 'abuse'. Neither is criticising her choice of school of her children. Calling her a b****h or the n-word is obvious abuse. In between there is a large grey area. Then there is the fact that one person or group can essentially spam abuse.
Don't get me wrong, the abuse she did get is horrific.
However, I'd expect anyone condemning this to condemn the abuse that Jewish Labour MPs are routinely getting from other so-called Labour figures. But Jezza couldn't even be bothered to stay in the commons to listen to his own MPs testimonies about it ...
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Please do write it. I really don’t understand why the EU has the right, apparently, to stop all flights in the world.
It isn't a case of the right to stop flights. International aviation is enabled by bilateral treaties. Without a deal by definition there is no bilateral treaty, which in extremis means no flights between the countries. Therefore if there is international aviation there has to be a deal.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
I really doubt we will be nouvelle Minsk!
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
I think being a vassal state, rather like Hapsburg Bosnia is more likely.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Is there a “Jose Mourinho exit date” market anywhere?
If so, I’ll have a fiver on before the end of next month.
Skybet have 13/8 on him gone by Christmas.
I think I’ll ask around friends who might have a Skybet account. That’s looking value tonight, although they don’t face another big test until they go to Chelsea on 20th October.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
It’s been quite some time since anyone on here likened the EU to Nazi Germany, you’ve made me all nostalgic.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
I really doubt we will be nouvelle Minsk!
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
I think being a vassal state, rather like Hapsburg Bosnia is more likely.
Irish Free State more like. The freedom to obtain freedom. It’s the direction that’s important.
Sure, if you assume a bunch of political opinions as fact then you get cult as a kinda accurate description. The same, of course, goes for "xenophobic lies".
More realistically, agreeing with most things a political figure says is obviously not sufficient to call somebody a cultist, and even if it were you could use a less derogatory term like "religion". Feigned innocence aside, it's obviously a name intended to poke fun. Which is fine as long as you don't turn into a snowflake the instant somebody uses equally strident language about you.
It is not a name intended to poke fun. And I have - as far as I can recall - called anyone a 'cultist' on here. I may be wrong - but I do not think I have used that form of language.
The behaviour of ardent Corbyn supporters that is seen on Twitter and elsewhere is what I call out and they are not expressing political opinions, they are attacking people in hateful ways.
Their behaviour is encouraged and enabled by the high command surrounding Corbyn. Action could have been taken to shut it down - but that action has not been taken.
Calling that out is perfectly valid.
Calling out actions of the Leave campaign are perfectly valid. Doing so in an abusive and increasingly personal way to fellow members of this forum is not.
The accusation isn't you personally anymore than your accusation is directed at say Nick Palmer personally.
Are you trying to claim that attacking people in hateful ways is carried out just by Corbynites?
Troubling that these people hate Abbott and other allies of Corbyn as well as Corbyn himself, seen as they get so much abuse. I had always assumed that was from their opponents.....
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have done more than Labour to stop abuse?
As far as I know both leaders have called it out, yet still Diane Abbott gets more abuse than any other MP. So why are you not calling the Tories cultists?
"Diane Abbott gets more abuse than any other MP"
Citation required.
There's always the old putting 'Diane Abbott gets more abuse than any other MP' into Google method.
'Diane Abbott more abused than any other MPs during election'
How much of that abuse was because she was black, female and about her physical appearance, and how much was about the fact that she’s illiterate, innumerate and racist?
How much of the abuse of Tory's is because they are 'heartless' and drive disabled people to suicide?
Or many of the various other complaints people on the left might think are valid?
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
I really doubt we will be nouvelle Minsk!
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
It’s worse than that. It would mean submitting to the hegemony of the Remoaners, so you wouldn’t even get to pretend it’s a foreign occupation.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
It’s been quite some time since anyone on here likened the EU to Nazi Germany, you’ve made me all nostalgic.
Did I make that comparison? I was just pointing out a period of time in the last 2000 years when Britain had no allies on the continent.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
I really doubt we will be nouvelle Minsk!
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
I think being a vassal state, rather like Hapsburg Bosnia is more likely.
Irish Free State more like. The freedom to obtain freedom. It’s the direction that’s important.
A reactionary backwater for half a century. Sounds enticing.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
It’s been quite some time since anyone on here likened the EU to Nazi Germany, you’ve made me all nostalgic.
If you want more, we could discuss Selmayr being the grandson of a Nazi war criminal, whose Wikipedia page mysteriously claims he was much wronged and supports this with a load of links that turn out in practice to either not exist or to be on neo-Nazi forums.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
I really doubt we will be nouvelle Minsk!
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
I think being a vassal state, rather like Hapsburg Bosnia is more likely.
Irish Free State more like. The freedom to obtain freedom. It’s the direction that’s important.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Please do write it. I really don’t understand why the EU has the right, apparently, to stop all flights in the world.
It isn't a case of the right to stop flights. International aviation is enabled by bilateral treaties. Without a deal by definition there is no bilateral treaty, which in extremis means no flights between the countries. Therefore if there is international aviation there has to be a deal.
Commercial arrangements for flights between countries is a different subject from the regulators that approve planes to fly, pilots to fly and airlines to operate. Yes, when we leave the EU we also drop out of a lot of bilateral treaties, which our trade minister is currently working on replicating, especially with regard to the USA. But we can have as many arrangements as we like if we have no licenced planes, pilots or airlines to operate the flights.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
And you think we have fewer friends now? Barmy.
Right now one of your fellow Leavers on thread is suggesting that Britain is not free. You need to retest your barmometer.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
...
???
.
...
Theroritically yes, if the EU wish to upset every airline in the world. In practice one assumes that they would agree themselves to keep existing plane parts produced before Brexit date certified, while grounding all British registered planes (and pilots, and airlines, and air traffic controllers etc, including private pilots and small planes).
Note that this is nothing to to with any trade agreements on who can fly commercial passenger planes where, that’s a completely different subject in itself.
There would be an awful lot of very upset people around the world, and it would be the EU they’d be upset at for refusing to even discuss aviation as a subject up until now. Their only comment on the subject has been the EASA ‘Notice to Stakeholders’ linked above.
There’s definitely now the outline of a thread header in my head about Brexit and Aviation.
Please do write it. I really don’t understand why the EU has the right, apparently, to stop all flights in the world.
I’ll have a go this week. Basically it’s because it’s a highly regulated industry and the EU are the regulator. Imagine if (in your industry) the FSA/FCA was an EU QUANGO, so they said that when we left the EU nothing sold in London would be regulated, which would mean in practice that insurance would be invalid and licenced professionals no longer licenced. We would have two real options, either to sign up as an associate member of the EU quango (as do Switzerland etc at the moment) or to replicate their functions ourself (which would take more time and money than we have available, for no discernible benefit).
Do not forget that as with all EU regulatory agencies the actual grunt work is done in the country. So with EASA they may set the rules. with a lot of people that worj for the national agencies but then do work at EASA HQ. The actual checking of regs and compliance is done by national agencies, in our case the CAA. So we have the expertise and the structures already in place, we just empower the CAA with reg setting.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
I really doubt we will be nouvelle Minsk!
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
I think being a vassal state, rather like Hapsburg Bosnia is more likely.
Irish Free State more like. The freedom to obtain freedom. It’s the direction that’s important.
Though Ireland now is very pro EU. They know which side their bread is buttered, and have prospered economically and socially since joining.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
And you think we have fewer friends now? Barmy.
Right now one of your fellow Leavers on thread is suggesting that Britain is not free. You need to retest your barmometer.
I’m not sure what their opinion has got to do with the matter.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
And you think we have fewer friends now? Barmy.
Right now one of your fellow Leavers on thread is suggesting that Britain is not free. You need to retest your barmometer.
I’m not sure what their opinion has got to do with the matter.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
And you think we have fewer friends now? Barmy.
Right now one of your fellow Leavers on thread is suggesting that Britain is not free. You need to retest your barmometer.
I’m not sure what their opinion has got to do with the matter.
As I wrote above it is always good to rewrite posts, but letters would take out a lot of anger I'm sure, many people would feel better before they ever sent it off and it they still feel strongly about an issue write a much more constructive letter. It would help if you just had to walk to a letter box before sending the message....
Harold Wilson used to advise never to send a letter written in anger in the morning until you'd had lunch.
MPs don't in general get a lot of abusive letters, unless it's changed since 2010, but clearly a high-profile MP will get more. The few angry ones that I received, a few times a year tended to be unsigned newspaper cuttings (always the Mail or Express) with something abusive in the margin on the "see what you traitors have done" lines.
I did have one chap who first got in touch by email to say he wished I was in a concentration camp, with a photoshopped picture of me and others of victims being shovelled into a pit. It felt like an interesting challenge to civilise him, so I responded politely to enquire what motivated him, and he became a regular, reasonably sane correspondent, in the end inviting me to visit the opera with him (I didn't go).
But I think Broxtowe politics was always tamer - London colleagues reported a nastier stream of stuff.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Dear God. Like the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and isn’t just a tad more significant and easier to access than two hundred years ago?
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Dear God. Like the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and isn’t just a tad more significant and easier to access than two hundred years ago?
I did have one chap who first got in touch by email to say he wished I was in a concentration camp, with a photoshopped picture of me and others of victims being shovelled into a pit. It felt like an interesting challenge to civilise him, so I responded politely to enquire what motivated him, and he became a regular, reasonably sane correspondent, in the end inviting me to visit the opera with him (I didn't go).
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Portugal was neutral as well.
It allowed us to use the Azores as an airbase.
But no Portuguese forces joined the Allies (unlike in WW1).
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Portugal was neutral as well.
It allowed us to use the Azores as an airbase.
Sweden allowed both sides to use it as a transport hub, and eventually even a training ground. It was still neutral.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the EU and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I doubt it will be as drastic as that. I do expect people will blame the EU. They won't blame themselves for the consequences of their decision. Equally the EU won't care what an ex member thinks. I do think however Brexit needs to be a success at some level for leavers. This blame suggests failure. Grievance doesn't fill your belly or make you feel good about yourself.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
We invaded Iceland: I’m not sure they count.
Until 1941 it was Danish - Denmark was already occupied by Germany in 1940 after only 6 hours of fighting.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
And you think we have fewer friends now? Barmy.
Right now one of your fellow Leavers on thread is suggesting that Britain is not free. You need to retest your barmometer.
If the threat to shut down our transport links if we don’t do what they want is accurate, then I’d say they have a point.
I’ll have a go this week. Basically it’s because it’s a highly regulated industry and the EU are the regulator. Imagine if (in your industry) the FSA/FCA was an EU QUANGO, so they said that when we left the EU nothing sold in London would be regulated, which would mean in practice that insurance would be invalid and licenced professionals no longer licenced. We would have two real options, either to sign up as an associate member of the EU quango (as do Switzerland etc at the moment) or to replicate their functions ourself (which would take more time and money than we have available, for no discernible benefit).
Do not forget that as with all EU regulatory agencies the actual grunt work is done in the country. So with EASA they may set the rules. with a lot of people that worj for the national agencies but then do work at EASA HQ. The actual checking of regs and compliance is done by national agencies, in our case the CAA. So we have the expertise and the structures already in place, we just empower the CAA with reg setting.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Please do write it. I really don’t understand why the EU has the right, apparently, to stop all flights in the world.
It isn't a case of the right to stop flights. International aviation is enabled by bilateral treaties. Without a deal by definition there is no bilateral treaty, which in extremis means no flights between the countries. Therefore if there is international aviation there has to be a deal.
Commercial arrangements for flights between countries is a different subject from the regulators that approve planes to fly, pilots to fly and airlines to operate. Yes, when we leave the EU we also drop out of a lot of bilateral treaties, which our trade minister is currently working on replicating, especially with regard to the USA. But we can have as many arrangements as we like if we have no licenced planes, pilots or airlines to operate the flights.
Gosh - do the CAA not exist then?
The EU can ban airlines they feel are unsafe from flying in EU airspace.
They have used this power against at least one Indonesian carrier if memory serves.
You would have to be barmy to claim a UK airline which the EU are happy with today will be unsafe the day after Brexit.
I have heard nothing to say this is a likely occurrence come Brexit and if for some strange reason that did come about there would be no reason other than political spite.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Portugal was neutral as well.
It allowed us to use the Azores as an airbase.
Sweden allowed both sides to use it as a transport hub, and eventually even a training ground. It was still neutral.
Please do write it. I really don’t understand why the EU has the right, apparently, to stop all flights in the world.
It isn't a case of the right to stop flights. International aviation is enabled by bilateral treaties. Without a deal by definition there is no bilateral treaty, which in extremis means no flights between the countries. Therefore if there is international aviation there has to be a deal.
Commercial arrangements for flights between countries is a different subject from the regulators that approve planes to fly, pilots to fly and airlines to operate. Yes, when we leave the EU we also drop out of a lot of bilateral treaties, which our trade minister is currently working on replicating, especially with regard to the USA. But we can have as many arrangements as we like if we have no licenced planes, pilots or airlines to operate the flights.
Gosh - do the CAA not exist then?
The EU can ban airlines they feel are unsafe from flying in EU airspace.
They have used this power against at least one Indonesian carrier if memory serves.
You would have to be barmy to claim a UK airline which the EU are happy with today will be unsafe the day after Brexit.
I have heard nothing to say this is a likely occurrence come Brexit and if for some strange reason that did come about there would be no reason other than political spite.
Completely correct, except that the likeliness of the occurrence is getting higher and the EU don’t want to discuss the subject.
I'm calling you hateful because you come across as nutter who just says stuff regardless of the factuality of it. Where did you pull the Tommy Robinson supports Corbyn from, even right wing newspapers who really don't have many standards when it comes to factuality like the Sun haven't gone for that one!
You literally make up stuff, there is a good point in a tv show I watched where an honest man is being asked to lie and he says something about words having to mean something. Yours literally mean nothing, if you thought you could get Corbyn out of power you would say the sky is dark black on a sunny cloudless day.
As for you political philosophy it doesn't matter what it is, as I said, unless you follow such a niche position that means there aren't other people online to abuse others that follow that position then there are people who agree with you sending horrible abuse because there are millions of people online, most serious strands of thought are well covered for people, a section of each of those are the type to abuse people online and the evidence shows that those on the left are far more likely to be the targets rather than those behind it.
As for winning, well as you said, I don't know what your political philosophy is. But as Paul Mason said quite well in regards to the Labour party
______________________________________________ “But if you want a centrist party, this is not going to be it for the next 10 years.
“If it’s important to you to have a pro-Remain party that is in favour of illegal war, in favour of privatisation, form your own party and get on with it!” ______________________________________________
In terms of internal Labour that is winning for me. If you think Labour are going to turn back into the party of privatisation, pro war, 'tough' on crime (so anti civil liberties) and the various other right wing trappings that Labour have had in the recent past then you are going to be incredibly disappointed and you certainly will lose (that internal Labour conflict)
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Portugal was neutral as well.
It allowed us to use the Azores as an airbase.
Sweden allowed both sides to use it as a transport hub, and eventually even a training ground. It was still neutral.
The Azores airbase was vital in closing the mid Atlantic gap in the Battle against the U boats. Salazar always maintained the Luso-Anglo alliance, just that we chose not to invoke it.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Portugal was neutral as well.
It allowed us to use the Azores as an airbase.
Sweden allowed both sides to use it as a transport hub, and eventually even a training ground. It was still neutral.
Sweden allowed the Danish Jews safe passage.
Yes - but that's not really relevant to its status as a belligerent/neutral.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Please do write it. I really don’t understand why the EU has the right, apparently, to stop all flights in the world.
It isn't a case of the right to stop flights. International aviation is enabled by bilateral treaties. Without a deal by definition there is no bilateral treaty, which in extremis means no flights between the countries. Therefore if there is international aviation there has to be a deal.
Commercial arrangements for flights between countries is a different subject from the regulators that approve planes to fly, pilots to fly and airlines to operate. Yes, when we leave the EU we also drop out of a lot of bilateral treaties, which our trade minister is currently working on replicating, especially with regard to the USA. But we can have as many arrangements as we like if we have no licenced planes, pilots or airlines to operate the flights.
Gosh - do the CAA not exist then?
The EU can ban airlines they feel are unsafe from flying in EU airspace.
They have used this power against at least one Indonesian carrier if memory serves.
You would have to be barmy to claim a UK airline which the EU are happy with today will be unsafe the day after Brexit.
I have heard nothing to say this is a likely occurrence come Brexit and if for some strange reason that did come about there would be no reason other than political spite.
Completely correct.
It's almost like I know a little about the aviation industry.......
It’s not hard to be polite. You and I have disagreed about some issues on this forum, though not on what you say above, but I hope I have always been polite even as we have argued hard for our positions.
Occasional invective can be fun! Endless abuse is just awful. I do feel a bit sorry for politicians - and, even more, their staff - having to read a load of abuse.
Sometimes I long for the days of pen and ink. It slows people down. The very speed of the internet makes it so much easier for people to spew out what is in their heads, 99% of which is not worth making public.
I think we have maybe thrown what I'd class as very mild barbs back and fore but it has mostly been polite but with very strong differences in our views!
I'm sure I've deleted and rewrote sentences a couple of times after a few more deep breaths
Whilst my eyes have narrowed (or maybe rolled) a few times reading your views it is mostly contained there so I wish you luck with things like enjoying your garden or your work when I see you posting about it.
I think the problem compounds with MPs and journalists as if you say something that I disagree with I can challenge you on it and you will quite possibly see it and if you don't reply I could even childishly declare some kind of victory. Whereas an MP can ignore it and possibly never see it, to get their attention, especially over the other shouting idiots you would have to do something more extreme.
As I wrote above it is always good to rewrite posts, but letters would take out a lot of anger I'm sure, many people would feel better before they ever sent it off and it they still feel strongly about an issue write a much more constructive letter. It would help if you just had to walk to a letter box before sending the message....
Well I wish you luck with whatever you are doing in life. If I don’t reply to one of your posts, it is generally because I have left the forum or because I would be repeating myself and boring others.
Anyway, one day I am sure you will realise that I am a wise and wonderful woman and generally right.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Portugal was neutral as well.
It allowed us to use the Azores as an airbase.
But no Portuguese forces joined the Allies (unlike in WW1).
I believe they were prepared to get involved if asked. We didn't want Spain drawn in though.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
You need to correct that. Foundation is as good a place to start as any I suppose, or else the robot books such as Caves of Steel. Maybe the short stories?
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
I’ll have a go this week. Basically it’s because it’s a highly regulated industry and the EU are the regulator. Imagine if (in your industry) the FSA/FCA was an EU QUANGO, so they said that when we left the EU nothing sold in London would be regulated, which would mean in practice that insurance would be invalid and licenced professionals no longer licenced. We would have two real options, either to sign up as an associate member of the EU quango (as do Switzerland etc at the moment) or to replicate their functions ourself (which would take more time and money than we have available, for no discernible benefit).
Do not forget that as with all EU regulatory agencies the actual grunt work is done in the country. So with EASA they may set the rules. with a lot of people that worj for the national agencies but then do work at EASA HQ. The actual checking of regs and compliance is done by national agencies, in our case the CAA. So we have the expertise and the structures already in place, we just empower the CAA with reg setting.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Dear God. Like the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and isn’t just a tad more significant and easier to access than two hundred years ago?
No Deal Brexit takes us out of all the EU trade agreements, thereby worsening terms of trade with much of the rest of the world.
Brexiteers are going to need Britons to put up with a lot.
Oh, and in the 1930's only 10% of our exports went to Europe, not the 45% it is now.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
I’ll have a go this week. Basically it’s because it’s a highly regulated industry and the EU are the regulator. Imagine if (in your industry) the FSA/FCA was an EU QUANGO, so they said that when we left the EU nothing sold in London would be regulated, which would mean in practice that insurance would be invalid and licenced professionals no longer licenced. We would have two real options, either to sign up as an associate member of the EU quango (as do Switzerland etc at the moment) or to replicate their functions ourself (which would take more time and money than we have available, for no discernible benefit).
Do not forget that as with all EU regulatory agencies the actual grunt work is done in the country. So with EASA they may set the rules. with a lot of people that worj for the national agencies but then do work at EASA HQ. The actual checking of regs and compliance is done by national agencies, in our case the CAA. So we have the expertise and the structures already in place, we just empower the CAA with reg setting.
(I suspect there’s a lot more behind-the-scenes work going on now that no-deal is looking like a real possibility).
Edit: There’s a rumour that 50% of EASA staff are British, which could be ‘interesting’ for everyone too.
Much like how they are losing a lot of their UK-based staff from the EMA?
Yes, and with an equally small number of qualified and experienced people who could do the jobs. I think that EASA requires employees to be nationals of a member state, as do a lot of EU quangoes
Labour frontbencher used taxpayers' money to gag his former lover aide who took him to tribunal
A Labour frontbencher (khalid Mahmood) used taxpayers' money to silence his Jewish Parliamentary assistant after she accused him of religious discrimination, The Telegraph can disclose.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Dear God. Like the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and isn’t just a tad more significant and easier to access than two hundred years ago?
No Deal Brexit takes us out of all the EU trade agreements, thereby worsening terms of trade with much of the rest of the world.
Brexiteers are going to need Britons to put up with a lot.
I export stuff every day of the week. Hourly. The biggest growth is in the WTO bits. Our EU business is shrinking. The rest of the world is booming.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
You need to correct that. Foundation is as good a place to start as any I suppose, or else the robot books such as Caves of Steel. Maybe the short stories?
"Foundation" probably the best place to start, or his short story collections.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
Good grief. Really?
More of a Lucas and Spielberg (and latterly Nolan) man
As I wrote above it is always good to rewrite posts, but letters would take out a lot of anger I'm sure, many people would feel better before they ever sent it off and it they still feel strongly about an issue write a much more constructive letter. It would help if you just had to walk to a letter box before sending the message....
Harold Wilson used to advise never to send a letter written in anger in the morning until you'd had lunch.
MPs don't in general get a lot of abusive letters, unless it's changed since 2010, but clearly a high-profile MP will get more. The few angry ones that I received, a few times a year tended to be unsigned newspaper cuttings (always the Mail or Express) with something abusive in the margin on the "see what you traitors have done" lines.
I did have one chap who first got in touch by email to say he wished I was in a concentration camp, with a photoshopped picture of me and others of victims being shovelled into a pit. It felt like an interesting challenge to civilise him, so I responded politely to enquire what motivated him, and he became a regular, reasonably sane correspondent, in the end inviting me to visit the opera with him (I didn't go).
But I think Broxtowe politics was always tamer - London colleagues reported a nastier stream of stuff.
Interesting story, being overly polite to someone being very OTT angry or rude does quite often throw them off it is a good tactic, although numbers probably make a huge difference these days. If Diane just had one angry (but non racist) abuser she might even be able to win them around to become simply see her as a political opponent rather than a target but her opponents cheer each other on and there are just far too many of them.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
You need to correct that. Foundation is as good a place to start as any I suppose, or else the robot books such as Caves of Steel. Maybe the short stories?
"Foundation" probably the best place to start, or his short story collections.
This is what Hammond said about the possibility of closed airspace / grounded planes
Hammond added that he did not think "anyone seriously believes" this would occur
Quite
Indeed, but that requires both sides to co-operate, and one of the sides seems to think that threatening this helps their efforts in the wider negotiations.
I suspect that if there’s no agreement on aviation soon we’ll be asking ICAO to get involved as mediators. Some airlines are already not selling tickets beyond the end of March.
Right, it’s 1am in the sandpit, so time to head off for the night.
This is what Hammond said about the possibility of closed airspace / grounded planes
Hammond added that he did not think "anyone seriously believes" this would occur
Quite
There are 2 major European countries (both with populations of over 40 m) between which there are not currently any flights. It is not inconceivable that the UK may be in a similar position post a no deal Brexit, should that be the consequence of an acrimonious collapse of talks with the EU.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
You need to correct that. Foundation is as good a place to start as any I suppose, or else the robot books such as Caves of Steel. Maybe the short stories?
Start with Foundation.
I always thought "Foundations Edge" was particularly well written.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
True, but it is not an altogether happy precedent. The first time we ended up losing our first Empire, and in the second we were reduced to a warrior satellite of the USA, undefeated but bankrupt.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
It’s been quite some time since anyone on here likened the EU to Nazi Germany, you’ve made me all nostalgic.
If you want more, we could discuss Selmayr being the grandson of a Nazi war criminal, whose Wikipedia page mysteriously claims he was much wronged and supports this with a load of links that turn out in practice to either not exist or to be on neo-Nazi forums.
But then again we don't have to!
Selmayr is not responsible for his grandfather’s sins.
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Dear God. Like the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and isn’t just a tad more significant and easier to access than two hundred years ago?
No Deal Brexit takes us out of all the EU trade agreements, thereby worsening terms of trade with much of the rest of the world.
Brexiteers are going to need Britons to put up with a lot.
Oh, and in the 1930's only 10% of our exports went to Europe, not the 45% it is now.
Yes, no deal means we lose all EU trade agreements, but that does not mean we will not sign our own bilateral's and with the EU's blessing. to "grandfather" those agreements to be operative, 1 sec after brexit. The EU has a large interest in us taking our percentage of the quotas and keeping their trade partners happy.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
You need to correct that. Foundation is as good a place to start as any I suppose, or else the robot books such as Caves of Steel. Maybe the short stories?
The caves of steel is a fantastic book. I think it’s Asimov’s best.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
Good grief. Really?
More of a Lucas and Spielberg (and latterly Nolan) man
Books! Books! People write stuff down! You can pick it up, read it in the bath, and it doesn't need charging!
The anonymous quoted EU official is overegging. Planes will fly even with "No Deal".
Except they won't.
Our contingency planning for "no deal" assumes we get a deal to keep the planes flying...
So if this official is actually real (one has to doubt) and not on hallucinogenic on drugs ( a fair possibility one thinks) they wish to bring Britain to its knees by basically recreating the blockade of the Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe of about 1941 or Boney’s Continental System circa 1807. Sans the violence to be fair.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
No. The EU27 are merely protecting their own interests in the negotiations. It is not the EU that is campaigning for a #peoplesvote, that is from British voters and activists.
The more desperation that we see from the Brexiteers, the more it seems like the Life of Brian sketch:
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
They have other interests. The Brexiteers will have managed a feat unmanaged in 2000 years, to isolate us with no allies on the continent, and with half the nation blaming the EU and half blaming the Tories.
Welcome to the dystopian future Britain. Like Belarus with more rain.
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
It’s been quite some time since anyone on here likened the EU to Nazi Germany, you’ve made me all nostalgic.
If you want more, we could discuss Selmayr being the grandson of a Nazi war criminal, whose Wikipedia page mysteriously claims he was much wronged and supports this with a load of links that turn out in practice to either not exist or to be on neo-Nazi forums.
But then again we don't have to!
Selmayr is not responsible for his grandfather’s sins.
And this would engender support for the wonders of the EU how exactly?
I hate to do a Sunil, but...
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
Except Sunil has never read Asimov
Good grief. Really?
More of a Lucas and Spielberg (and latterly Nolan) man
Books! Books! People write stuff down! You can pick it up, read it in the bath, and it doesn't need charging!
[sobs quietly]
I confess to having a bunch of books by Graham Hancock if that mitigates things.
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
M
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Dear God. Like the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and isn’t just a tad more significant and easier to access than two hundred years ago?
No Deal Brexit takes us out of all the EU trade agreements, thereby worsening terms of trade with much of the rest of the world.
Brexiteers are going to need Britons to put up with a lot.
Oh, and in the 1930's only 10% of our exports went to Europe, not the 45% it is now.
Yes, no deal means we lose all EU trade agreements, but that does not mean we will not sign our own bilateral's and with the EU's blessing. to "grandfather" those agreements to be operative, 1 sec after brexit. The EU has a large interest in us taking our percentage of the quotas and keeping their trade partners happy.
That overstates the EU's interest. If we remain in its customs union it gets the extra heft of being a 500 million person trading block.rather than a 450.million one. Apart from that helping us to roll over third party agreements is a favour it can provide at no cost to itself. We need them much more than they need us on this. The nature of the ask reflects that.
So in this distopian scenario, the planes stop, the ferries stop, economic activity “ceases” all due to the away and support for the EU will go up?
I think not.
I don't think they are bothered about post Brexit British sympathies.
Well they really should be. We will still be off the north coast of France for a few hundred million years yet.
M
dont be daft, this country has regularly been isolated with no continental allies.
How easy it is to forget about that Hitler fellow.
Even then we had Portugal and Iceland, Malta, Cyprus with Sweden Spain and Ireland neutral.
Dear God. Like the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and isn’t just a tad more significant and easier to access than two hundred years ago?
No Deal Brexit takes us out of all the EU trade agreements, thereby worsening terms of trade with much of the rest of the world.
Brexiteers are going to need Britons to put up with a lot.
Oh, and in the 1930's only 10% of our exports went to Europe, not the 45% it is now.
Yes, no deal means we lose all EU trade agreements, but that does not mean we will not sign our own bilateral's and with the EU's blessing. to "grandfather" those agreements to be operative, 1 sec after brexit. The EU has a large interest in us taking our percentage of the quotas and keeping their trade partners happy.
That overstates the EU's interest. If we remain in its customs union it gets the extra heft of being a 500 million person trading block.rather than a 450.million one. Apart from that helping us to roll over third party agreements is a favour it can provide at no cost to itself. We need them much more than they need us on this. The nature of the ask reflects that.
There were three squadrons of Americans in the Battle of Britain.
I'm not sure if you're satirising the US inclination to claim that they won WWII, but there definitely weren't three squadrons of septics in the BoB.
I never said there were. I'm not sure why they were septic anyway. Maybe a lack of baths?
There were however three squadrons of American fighter pilots. They were called 'Eagle' squadrons. They transferred to the USAF in 1943.
There were indeed three Eagle squadrons, but none fought in the Battle of Britain. The first was formed in September 1940 but did not become operational until 1941. The other two were formed in 1941. Some of the pilots had joined the RAF earlier and did fight in the Battle of Britain though.
I’m not a huge fan now but Asimov will endure for I, Robot (the Will Smith film is an affront) and his three laws of robotics.
"Robots of Dawn" introduced the Zeroeth Law - just like Thermodynamics
Elijah Bailey was not a bad detective, but he was not a patch on Philip Marlowe
What with everyone now thinking about AI risk, the 3 laws have been re evaluated and found not to work very well. In fact that was always the point, the stories are all about them not working very well. If you think about law 1, A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm, your domestic robot you bought to manage your affairs would have no choice but to sell your possessions and take all your money beyond what you need to subsist on and spend the lot on famine relief and international rescue sort of projects.
Comments
I know of that research (and in fact linked to a better version straight from Amnesty), but he was making the claim, and it's good to see what *he* was basing his claim on.
For instance, dig deep and as far as I can see the research was concentrating on female MPs, and therefore not *all* MPs. whilst it might be a good assumption that female MPs might get more abuse, that isn't provably the case.
You might also like to read - and critique - the methodology (which itself contains some interesting information):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3bg_SJKE9GOenpaekZ4eXRBWk0/view
If the choice is (and I think it is), submit to Continental hegemony as a province of the latest version of Rome/Hapsburgs/Napoleon etc or stay independent, even if it’s a struggle, it’s the latter for me.
If you think you are accurately labelling someone with something insulting is that abuse?
Although obviously then the same would equally apply to non Corbyn supporting MPs.
The critics of all politicians probably argue they deserve the criticism of them they are giving them.
I don't see what this has to do with Jezza going to the toilet either.
Or many of the various other complaints people on the left might think are valid?
But then again we don't have to!
[Jorane Sutt talking to Hober Mallow, Foundation, Asimov 1951]
"This is a Seldon crisis we're facing, Sutt, and Seldon crises are not solved by individuals but by historic forces. Trade without priests! Trade alone! Korell is now at war with us. Consequently our trade with her has stopped. What do you suppose will happen when one gadget after another goes out of commission?
"The small household appliances go first. After a half a year of this stalemate that you abhor, a woman's knife won't work any more. Her stove begins failing. Her washer doesn't do a good job. The temperature-humidity control in her house dies. What happens?"
He paused for an answer, and Sutt said calmly, "Nothing. People endure a good deal in war."
"But it's very hard to bear up under little things when the patriotic uplift of imminent danger is not present. It's going to be a stalemate. There will be no casualties, no bombardments, no battles. There will just be a knife that won't cut, and a stove that won't cook, and a house that freezes in the winter. It will be annoying, and people will grumble."
"When two years of the stalemate have gone, the machines in the factories will begin to fail. Those industries will find themselves very suddenly ruined."
"The factories ran well enough before you came there, Mallow." said Sutt.
"Yes, Sutt, so they did - at about one-twentieth the profits...With the industrialist and financier and the average man all against him, how long will [you] hold out?"
"And there isn't a factory, not a trading center, not a shipping line that isn't under my control; that I couldn't squeeze to nothing if [you] attempts revolutionary propaganda. Where [your] propaganda succeeds, or even looks as though it might succeed, I will make certain that prosperity dies. Where it fails, prosperity will continue, because my factories will remain fully staffed. The game will be played out to its end."
MPs don't in general get a lot of abusive letters, unless it's changed since 2010, but clearly a high-profile MP will get more. The few angry ones that I received, a few times a year tended to be unsigned newspaper cuttings (always the Mail or Express) with something abusive in the margin on the "see what you traitors have done" lines.
I did have one chap who first got in touch by email to say he wished I was in a concentration camp, with a photoshopped picture of me and others of victims being shovelled into a pit. It felt like an interesting challenge to civilise him, so I responded politely to enquire what motivated him, and he became a regular, reasonably sane correspondent, in the end inviting me to visit the opera with him (I didn't go).
But I think Broxtowe politics was always tamer - London colleagues reported a nastier stream of stuff.
Bizarre...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-aviation/british-aviation-regulator-steps-up-planning-for-disorderly-brexit-idUSKBN1K027U
(I suspect there’s a lot more behind-the-scenes work going on now that no-deal is looking like a real possibility).
Edit: There’s a rumour that 50% of EASA staff are British, which could be ‘interesting’ for everyone too.
The EU can ban airlines they feel are unsafe from flying in EU airspace.
They have used this power against at least one Indonesian carrier if memory serves.
You would have to be barmy to claim a UK airline which the EU are happy with today will be unsafe the day after Brexit.
I have heard nothing to say this is a likely occurrence come Brexit and if for some strange reason that did come about there would be no reason other than political spite.
You literally make up stuff, there is a good point in a tv show I watched where an honest man is being asked to lie and he says something about words having to mean something. Yours literally mean nothing, if you thought you could get Corbyn out of power you would say the sky is dark black on a sunny cloudless day.
As for you political philosophy it doesn't matter what it is, as I said, unless you follow such a niche position that means there aren't other people online to abuse others that follow that position then there are people who agree with you sending horrible abuse because there are millions of people online, most serious strands of thought are well covered for people, a section of each of those are the type to abuse people online and the evidence shows that those on the left are far more likely to be the targets rather than those behind it.
As for winning, well as you said, I don't know what your political philosophy is. But as Paul Mason said quite well in regards to the Labour party
______________________________________________
“But if you want a centrist party, this is not going to be it for the next 10 years.
“If it’s important to you to have a pro-Remain party that is in favour of illegal war, in favour of privatisation, form your own party and get on with it!”
______________________________________________
In terms of internal Labour that is winning for me. If you think Labour are going to turn back into the party of privatisation, pro war, 'tough' on crime (so anti civil liberties) and the various other right wing trappings that Labour have had in the recent past then you are going to be incredibly disappointed and you certainly will lose (that internal Labour conflict)
Anyway, one day I am sure you will realise that I am a wise and wonderful woman and generally right.
Only teasing ......
Brexiteers are going to need Britons to put up with a lot.
Oh, and in the 1930's only 10% of our exports went to Europe, not the 45% it is now.
Hammond added that he did not think "anyone seriously believes" this would occur
Quite
A Labour frontbencher (khalid Mahmood) used taxpayers' money to silence his Jewish Parliamentary assistant after she accused him of religious discrimination, The Telegraph can disclose.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/27/labour-frontbencherused-taxpayers-money-gag-former-lover-aide/
I am intensely relaxed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Stories_(Asimov)
Edit - Ireland also gave practical help in the Belfast Blitz and protested at the bombings to the German ambassador.
@Cyclefree Haha we'll see and thank you.
I suspect that if there’s no agreement on aviation soon we’ll be asking ICAO to get involved as mediators. Some airlines are already not selling tickets beyond the end of March.
Right, it’s 1am in the sandpit, so time to head off for the night.
I always thought "Foundations Edge" was particularly well written.
Brexit won’t be that bad.
[sobs quietly]
There were however three squadrons of American fighter pilots. They were called 'Eagle' squadrons. They transferred to the USAF in 1943.
Elijah Bailey was not a bad detective, but he was not a patch on Philip Marlowe
'Three Eagle Squadrons were formed between September 1940 and July 1941.'
Of course, Her Majesty is likely to have shuffled off this mortal coil by then
"Septic tank" = "Yank" = "Yankee" = "American"