So my theory is that Brexit is a re-run of the book of Exodus.
The Israelites are sick of being bossed around by the Egyptians. Then Moses comes to them with a plan to leave Egypt, which he’s got from a burning bush. Or perhaps it’s a burning bus, with a large monetary figure written on the side. Whatever.
Moses tells them it’s all going to be great, they’re going to be going to a land flowing with milk and honey, so they set off across the desert. Eventually they turn up in the promised land, which turns out to be yet another rather scrubby piece of desert, and Moses tells them that he’s just going off to negotiate terms for them. Off he goes for forty days and nights, and while he’s gone, the Israelites get very excited about all the new deals they’ll be able to do in future, and make themselves an effigy of a golden calf (probably they expected a bull market).
Eventually, Moses returns and tells them they’re going to have to get rid of the golden calf. He’s got a deal, of a sort, but actually, it’s all a set of rules about things they’re not allowed to do, and, by the way, they’re not allowed to question the rules either.
Still, at least they got away from those bloody foreigners bossing them around, didn’t they?
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The amount of welfare shopping by EU migrants is minimal, despite what the tabloids would have us think. Certainly, a lot of migrants do low paid jobs and their income is supplemented by tax credits (in roughly the same proportion as for the UK workforce as a whole), but that will continue for those with jobs in the future.
Whether it's a single person, or 100,000, it should be ended. But I think the UK government should be able to deny working tax credits to non-citizens.
If we don’t declare overnight, we are mad. India’s record chase in England is about 170 if memory serves me. They need 250 just to make us bat again.
Depends on what the weather is like and forecast to be tomorrow morning.
If its sunny and looks okay then they might bat for another hour.
They are saying wet tomorrow morning but better in the afternoon, they are indicating play should be possible. Then Monday was described as sunny intervals.
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The amount of welfare shopping by EU migrants is minimal, despite what the tabloids would have us think. Certainly, a lot of migrants do low paid jobs and their income is supplemented by tax credits (in roughly the same proportion as for the UK workforce as a whole), but that will continue for those with jobs in the future.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The Chequers deal is perfectly acceptable to me, as I've argued on here before, and is actually quite a hard Brexit so I'd be happy with it.
I just think Theresa May is appalling at politics. She should have made a national broadcast after she agreed it, then taken it round the studios and around the country selling it.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
There is a long way to go before we get there however. It will be grim.and will suck the energy from dealing with the many problems facing us. Expect at least one lost decade because of Brexit.
No as you would care how and when we left the EU mainly if you wanted to delay it or stop it altogether.
Provided the Chequers Deal gets through opposition to Brexit will come from a few fanatics like you in the LDs who instead of transpotting have as their main hobby getting the UK into a Federal EU
At the moment you are clinging to the Chequers Deal and an unsubstantiated report in the Daily Mail like a shipwrecked man to a life raft.
The Chequers Deal has already been amended under pressure from the ERG and has cost two Cabinet Ministers so if the EU throw it out completely it's a one-way journey to No Deal exit next March.
Except it is now clear the EU are not going to throw Chequers out, they may amend it a bit but will deal with it, the fact May has lost Boris and Davis and annoyed hard Brexiteers has shown the EU she has made the concessions they wanted to move forward
If they do, and it's a deal both sides can live with, I'll be a happy man.
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The Chequers deal is perfectly acceptable to me, as I've argued on here before, and is actually quite a hard Brexit so I'd be happy with it.
I just think Theresa May is appalling at politics. She should have made a national broadcast after she agreed it, then taken it round the studios and around the country selling it.
"... after she agreed it,..." Once it's agreed with the EU? Could be embarrassing otherwise.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
No as you would care how and when we left the EU mainly if you wanted to delay it or stop it altogether.
Provided the Chequers Deal gets through opposition to Brexit will come from a few fanatics like you in the LDs who instead of transpotting have as their main hobby getting the UK into a Federal EU
At the moment you are clinging to the Chequers Deal and an unsubstantiated report in the Daily Mail like a shipwrecked man to a life raft.
The Chequers Deal has already been amended under pressure from the ERG and has cost two Cabinet Ministers so if the EU throw it out completely it's a one-way journey to No Deal exit next March.
Except it is now clear the EU are not going to throw Chequers out, they may amend it a bit but will deal with it, the fact May has lost Boris and Davis and annoyed hard Brexiteers has shown the EU she has made the concessions they wanted to move forward
If they do, and it's a deal both sides can live with, I'll be a happy man.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? So if a Pole turns up at Heathrow to visit the sights of London they’ll be turned away?
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The Chequers deal is perfectly acceptable to me, as I've argued on here before, and is actually quite a hard Brexit so I'd be happy with it.
I just think Theresa May is appalling at politics. She should have made a national broadcast after she agreed it, then taken it round the studios and around the country selling it.
"... after she agreed it,..." Once it's agreed with the EU? Could be embarrassing otherwise.
The EU is moving towards agreeing the UK can stay in the single market for goods but not services with the regulatory alignment May has proposed in the Chequers Deal and end free movement according to reports last week
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? I thought part of the 'problem' was east Europeans coming in and being to prepared to take jobs at minimum wage, thus suppressing wages at the bottom end of the market. Your suggestion wouldn't change that.
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The Chequers deal is perfectly acceptable to me, as I've argued on here before, and is actually quite a hard Brexit so I'd be happy with it.
I just think Theresa May is appalling at politics. She should have made a national broadcast after she agreed it, then taken it round the studios and around the country selling it.
"... after she agreed it,..." Once it's agreed with the EU? Could be embarrassing otherwise.
With the Cabinet. She needs to sell both the UK position and the final arrangement.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? I thought part of the 'problem' was east Europeans coming in and being to prepared to take jobs at minimum wage, thus suppressing wages at the bottom end of the market. Your suggestion wouldn't change that.
It would as free movement allows you to come for 3 months without a job offer and spend 3 months looking and only get a minimum wage job offer in the fourth month here. May's plan requires a job offer on arrival.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The Chequers deal is perfectly acceptable to me, as I've argued on here before, and is actually quite a hard Brexit so I'd be happy with it.
I just think Theresa May is appalling at politics. She should have made a national broadcast after she agreed it, then taken it round the studios and around the country selling it.
"... after she agreed it,..." Once it's agreed with the EU? Could be embarrassing otherwise.
The EU is moving towards agreeing the UK can stay in the single market for goods but not services with the regulatory alignment May has proposed in the Chequers Deal and end free movement according to reports last week
Well I hope so. It seems like a very soft Brexit to me, which given where we are, is probably about as good as it gets. If she avoids the disaster of hard Brexit in WTO terms she deserves some credit imo.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? So if a Pole turns up at Heathrow to visit the sights of London they’ll be turned away?
No, just as I wouldn't be kicked out of Israel (unless they read my criticisms of their actions in Gaza, of course).
But they wouldn't automatically be entitled to an NI number and hence the right to work here, as they are at present.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? So if a Pole turns up at Heathrow to visit the sights of London they’ll be turned away?
If a Bolivian turns up at Heathrow to visit the sights of London they will not be turned away with a tourist visa but they will not be able to live here longer term, just visit unless a work place or study place has been already agreed for them
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? So if a Pole turns up at Heathrow to visit the sights of London they’ll be turned away?
No, just as I wouldn't be kicked out of Israel (unless they read my criticisms of their actions in Gaza, of course).
But they wouldn't automatically be entitled to an NI number and hence the right to work here, as they are at present.
But they’d have a right to an NI number once they have a job offer, so what’s the difference? You can make it illegal to interview people who don’t have NI numbers.
Anyway, before I got distracted by yet another of William's misapprehensions about the EU and the difference between free movement of people and free movement of labour, I really came here to say I am on holiday for the next week and so won't be on PB much.
I hope everyone has a good week and look forward to resuming my awesome puns from about the 20th.
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The Chequers deal is perfectly acceptable to me, as I've argued on here before, and is actually quite a hard Brexit so I'd be happy with it.
I just think Theresa May is appalling at politics. She should have made a national broadcast after she agreed it, then taken it round the studios and around the country selling it.
"... after she agreed it,..." Once it's agreed with the EU? Could be embarrassing otherwise.
The EU is moving towards agreeing the UK can stay in the single market for goods but not services with the regulatory alignment May has proposed in the Chequers Deal and end free movement according to reports last week
Well I hope so. It seems like a very soft Brexit to me, which given where we are, is probably about as good as it gets. If she avoids the disaster of hard Brexit in WTO terms she deserves some credit imo.
It was a tough job but she seems to have finally found a solution
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
I doubt Brexit will end free movement in the way leave voters expected. At most it will be immigration based on a reciprocal set of rules agreed with the EU.
It would as free movement allows you to come for 3 months without a job offer and spend 3 months looking and only get a minimum wage job offer in the fourth month here. May's plan requires a job offer on arrival.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
I'm sceptical because Freedom of Movement has seen such a sacred cow for the EU I find it hard to believe they are willing to compromise on it so easily in return for continuing access to the SM.
It sounds more like a modified version of the DCFTA which exists between the EU and the likes of Georgia, Moldova and the Ukraine which allows the countries access to the SM but leaves migration from these countries at the behest of individual EU states. It's cited as an example of how non-EEA members can be incorporated into the Single Market.
Anyway, before I got distracted by yet another of William's misapprehensions about the EU and the difference between free movement of people and free movement of labour, I really came here to say I am on holiday for the next week and so won't be on PB much.
I hope everyone has a good week and look forward to resuming my awesome puns from about the 20th.
Have a great holiday and look forward to your musings on your return
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
I doubt Brexit will end free movement in the way leave voters expected. At most it will be immigration based on a reciprocal set of rules agreed with the EU.
Clearly enough Leave voters accept it for the Tories to be 4% ahead in the latest Yougov even if UKIP are up to 7%.
It is similar to the transition controls we should have had in 2004 and the lack of which were crucial to Leave getting over 50%
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? I thought part of the 'problem' was east Europeans coming in and being to prepared to take jobs at minimum wage, thus suppressing wages at the bottom end of the market. Your suggestion wouldn't change that.
It would as free movement allows you to come for 3 months without a job offer and spend 3 months looking and only get a minimum wage job offer in the fourth month here. May's plan requires a job offer on arrival.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
It will not solve the issue though. The issue is access to the welfare system meaning social housing, NHS, child benefit from the start of a job. Rock up from Eastern Europe say you know nobody in the UK and after 3 months (if working) go to the top of the social housing list. Whilst current residents with family and friends here go down the list. The social housing class will only be pacified when access to the welfare system is after a period of time working and paying. If a Government had done this before the ref there would have been no Brexit.
On the subject of sports. WTF? PGA Championship online stream only. That is just ludicrous.
Given most modern tv's are internet enabled + availability of chromecast, fire tv etc etc etc, it is just way cheaper for a channel to completely bypass the old delivery network of paying for a dedicated channel on FreeView or Sky. We will see this more and more in the future.
It would as free movement allows you to come for 3 months without a job offer and spend 3 months looking and only get a minimum wage job offer in the fourth month here. May's plan requires a job offer on arrival.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
I'm sceptical because Freedom of Movement has seen such a sacred cow for the EU I find it hard to believe they are willing to compromise on it so easily in return for continuing access to the SM.
It sounds more like a modified version of the DCFTA which exists between the EU and the likes of Georgia, Moldova and the Ukraine which allows the countries access to the SM but leaves migration from these countries at the behest of individual EU states. It's cited as an example of how non-EEA members can be incorporated into the Single Market.
We will not be in the single market for services that is precisely the point, only for goods
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? I thought part of the 'problem' was east Europeans coming in and being to prepared to take jobs at minimum wage, thus suppressing wages at the bottom end of the market. Your suggestion wouldn't change that.
It would as free movement allows you to come for 3 months without a job offer and spend 3 months looking and only get a minimum wage job offer in the fourth month here. May's plan requires a job offer on arrival.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
It will not solve the issue though. The issue is access to the welfare system meaning social housing, NHS, child benefit from the start of a job. Rock up from Eastern Europe say you know nobody in the UK and after 3 months (if working) go to the top of the social housing list. Whilst current residents with family and friends here go down the list. The social housing class will only be pacified when access to the welfare system is after a period of time working and paying. If a Government had done this before the ref there would have been no Brexit.
A more contributory benefits system is an entirely different argument from Brexit and up to a UK government to introduce
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? I thought part of the 'problem' was east Europeans coming in and being to prepared to take jobs at minimum wage, thus suppressing wages at the bottom end of the market. Your suggestion wouldn't change that.
It would as free movement allows you to come for 3 months without a job offer and spend 3 months looking and only get a minimum wage job offer in the fourth month here. May's plan requires a job offer on arrival.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
It will not solve the issue though. The issue is access to the welfare system meaning social housing, NHS, child benefit from the start of a job. Rock up from Eastern Europe say you know nobody in the UK and after 3 months (if working) go to the top of the social housing list. Whilst current residents with family and friends here go down the list. The social housing class will only be pacified when access to the welfare system is after a period of time working and paying. If a Government had done this before the ref there would have been no Brexit.
A more contributory benefits system is an entirely different argument from Brexit and up to a UK government to introduce
It was one of the main reason that a particular social class voted for Brexit. The Tory party ignores it at it's peril in it s Brexit deal.
Ultimately Brexit will be dealt with when people are so bored with the topic that they will accept the do-as-you-are-told-with-no-say-any-longer-similar-setup-to before-but-there's-less-for-us "BINO" that is the only tolerable Leave alternative to EU membership.
Yet still ends free movement
In the sense that people are so bored with the topic that they won't care whether the details are any different in practice...
It replaces free movement with a job offer or study place on arrival requirement, which will be enough for all but the most diehard Leavers
Really? I thought part of the 'problem' was east Europeans coming in and being to prepared to take jobs at minimum wage, thus suppressing wages at the bottom end of the market. Your suggestion wouldn't change that.
It would as free movement allows you to come for 3 months without a job offer and spend 3 months looking and only get a minimum wage job offer in the fourth month here. May's plan requires a job offer on arrival.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
It will not solve the issue though. The issue is access to the welfare system meaning social housing, NHS, child benefit from the start of a job. Rock up from Eastern Europe say you know nobody in the UK and after 3 months (if working) go to the top of the social housing list. Whilst current residents with family and friends here go down the list. The social housing class will only be pacified when access to the welfare system is after a period of time working and paying. If a Government had done this before the ref there would have been no Brexit.
A more contributory benefits system is an entirely different argument from Brexit and up to a UK government to introduce
It was one of the main reason that a particular social class voted for Brexit. The Tory party ignores it at it's peril in it s Brexit deal.
+1 It's why I pin the blame on Brexit on a Mr G Brown
Brexit means Brexit. BINO means Brexit so referendum will have been honoured.
One of the objectives of a government is to achieve economic stability - and the swivel eyed loons can be ignored. Nowhere in the referendum campaign were we offered a return to a 1950s version of North Korea - but that is where JRM wants us to go.
That's madness. It would be up there with 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.' Strictly speaking we will have left but amongst the 17m was there likely one person who thought 'I want to leave the EU in the symbolic sense but don't want anything to change.'
There were lots of people who campaigned for Brexit to EEA/EFTA - including Richard Tyndall and me on this board.
But Chequers, or some variant on that, is a lot less 'BINO' than EFTA/EEA - as it ends FoM and does not include the Single Market in Services. It is, in other words, Switzerland Minus.
Whatever I campaigned for before the referendum, I now believe that it is important that FoM is ended in order to honour result. I have no issue with it being relatively seamless for people with guaranteed jobs from the EU to come over here and work, but I do think long 'fishing' excercises and/or welfare shopping should be ended.
The amount of welfare shopping by EU migrants is minimal, despite what the tabloids would have us think. Certainly, a lot of migrants do low paid jobs and their income is supplemented by tax credits (in roughly the same proportion as for the UK workforce as a whole), but that will continue for those with jobs in the future.
Whether it's a single person, or 100,000, it should be ended. But I think the UK government should be able to deny working tax credits to non-citizens.
If Remainers want a second vote, then they must relentlessly focus on destroying Corbyn, and getting a pro-People's Vote leader at the top of Labour. Thornberry?
It's probably too late to stop Brexit as is, but they could go into the next GE calling for a new referendum: and then win it, and we Return.
No, I don't think you get how most Labour members think. They're mnuch more pro-JC than pro-referendum. It's already a problem that the 2nd referendun campaign is getting confused with the anti-Corbyn lobby. If it's seen as yet another attempt to get at JC, they'll alienate the bulk of the membership who would otherwise be sympathetic. They need pro-JC allies to lead the charge.
Boris Dad now throw some more petrol on the fire. Called for a burka ban in Telegraph.
Anecdote
My lefty/anarchist wife was once automatically pro-Islamic dress, and pro-anything-Tories-wanted-to-Ban (and vice versa)
It's nothing to do with me, but in the last couple of years she has done a volte-face and is now enraged by her "idiotic lefty friends" who think the niqab and the burqa are just fine because "no man should tell a woman how to dress"
She sees this imbecility for what it is, despises the misogyny of the niqab, and is now, for the first time, actively confronting her universally lefty friends on their stupidity.
She describes it as an epiphany - e.g. one day she suddenly sat up straight and thought: "why the fuck am I defending this awful anti-women dress, and the patriarchal religion underlying it, just because it is brown people that tend to believe it?"
I watch on, politely distant and mildly alarmed, but also intrigued.
There is hope in the generation after the Millennials. The under 23s. They are really thinking. Through her I also see tentative evidence that UK Muslim women themselves are questioning the Patriarchy (and they really do face a Patriarchy)
Let us hope and/or pray.
Let us not forget that Leftism/Marxism/Communism is a Patriarchy. Hardly any Soviet leaders were female, and then you had the concept of "Campaign Wives" during the War, and mass-rape of anything female in occupied Eastern Europe (and not just of German women, it also included Jewish women and female former slave workers).
The 632 seats in England, Scotland and Wales were examined for the study. It found that 112 had switched from Leave to Remain. The new analysis suggests there are now 341 seats with majority Remain support, up from 229 seats at the referendum.
One seat has switched support in Scotland and 97 have switched in England, while 14 of the 40 seats in Wales have changed from Leave to Remain. Overall, the model puts Remain on 53% support, with 47% backing Leave....
...Data scientists compiling the study used a technique known as multi-level regression and post-stratification, similar to that used by YouGov in its pre-election model, which proved far more accurate than conventional opinion polls. However, the polling sample used by YouGov for its election model was much bigger, covering some 50,000 people.
Among the constituencies to switch from Leave to Remain is that of Boris Johnson, the former foreign secretary and face of the Leave campaign. Support for Remain in his Uxbridge and South Ruislip constituency has risen from 43.6% to 51.4%, according to the new model.
Surrey Heath, the constituency of the other Leave figurehead, Michael Gove, also emerged as having a pro-Remain majority. Support for Remain increased from 48% in 2016 to 50.2%. There was also a 12.8-point swing to Remain in shadow chancellor John McDonnell’s seat of Hayes and Harlington.
The seats of three pro-Leave Labour MPs switched to Remain. Birkenhead, Frank Field’s constituency, now has a 58.4% majority in favour of Remain. Graham Stringer’s Blackley and Broughton constituency now has a 59% in favour of Remain. Kelvin Hopkins’s Luton North seat now has 53.1% backing Remain.
Entirely right. Brexit is partly a refusal by many cowardly UK governments (of left and right) to make welfare contributory. The longer you live here, the more loyalty to the state you show (extra gold stars for military or charitable service!), then the more entitled you are to help. This is how it should be. If you are a Pole or Bulgarian who has just arrived, and you are homeless and unemployed, you should get almost nothing. Maybe zero. Maybe a bus ticket home.
Brexit was created by grave and serious errors by British AND European governance.
It's all down to Freedom of Movement for people as enshrined by the pernicious mechanism known as the Single Market so beloved of Mrs Thatcher and the Conservatives. Maybe you should mention that to your "lefty" wife.
The rationale is simple - it's the same one that has perpetuated economic growth for three centuries - don't send the work to the people, send the people to the work. Whether from field to factory or from Lanark to London, it's all about, as Norman Tebbit said "getting on your bike and looking for work".
Angela Merkel was at least honest - Germany needs the refugees because it needs cheap labour to maintain economic growth. Britain and the other richer parts of western and northern Europe have the same issue - economic growth is predicated on a ready supply of cheap labour but then in truth it always has been whether that labour has come from the countryside or the Caribbean.
The fall of Communism re-opened a cheap labour source which had been closed by Stalin in 1945. It's easy - people can be employed more easily and cheaply than doing proper R&D and improving business processes. That's where we are - unskilled labour is cheap and plentiful with the SM but it has to be fed and housed and it wants to bring its family to live here too.
The consequence is a new generation of slums in London with 20 or more living in a three-bedroom house in Harrow or Dagenham or East Ham but that's fine because GDP is growing at 1.8% per year. The social price of the economic model became a political price in 2016.
If Remainers want a second vote, then they must relentlessly focus on destroying Corbyn, and getting a pro-People's Vote leader at the top of Labour. Thornberry?
It's probably too late to stop Brexit as is, but they could go into the next GE calling for a new referendum: and then win it, and we Return.
No, I don't think you get how most Labour members think. They're mnuch more pro-JC than pro-referendum. It's already a problem that the 2nd referendun campaign is getting confused with the anti-Corbyn lobby. If it's seen as yet another attempt to get at JC, they'll alienate the bulk of the membership who would otherwise be sympathetic. They need pro-JC allies to lead the charge.
I bow to your superior knowledge of Labour members, but I think you miss my point.
The chances of holding a 2nd referendum (before Brexit) are already very small. It's a pointless fight. Not going to happen. A deal will surely be done. And we will Brexit.
But let's imagine that the deal is shite (not exactly hard). A Labour party dedicated to a new referendum, taking us back in, would do, I think, very well in the next GE. The Tories are the Brexit party, the LibDems, are nowhere, I think that Labour (as the revote party) could easily win the GE in 2022 if the deal looks crap. And so we return in about 2023.
But this depends on Labour getting a europhile lefty leadership rather than a sceptic Corbynite lefty leaderership.
Not sure it's even that hard. The left of the Labour Party have always been big on empowering members. I don't think Mr Corbyn would welcome a conference vote in favour of remaining/rejoining but I think he'd go along with it. After all he did campaign to remain, albeit without the skill we were later to learn he possesses.
Entirely right. Brexit is partly a refusal by many cowardly UK governments (of left and right) to make welfare contributory. The longer you live here, the more loyalty to the state you show (extra gold stars for military or charitable service!), then the more entitled you are to help. This is how it should be. If you are a Pole or Bulgarian who has just arrived, and you are homeless and unemployed, you should get almost nothing. Maybe zero. Maybe a bus ticket home.
Brexit was created by grave and serious errors by British AND European governance.
It's all down to Freedom of Movement for people as enshrined by the pernicious mechanism known as the Single Market so beloved of Mrs Thatcher and the Conservatives. Maybe you should mention that to your "lefty" wife.
The rationale is simple - it's the same one that has perpetuated economic growth for three centuries - don't send the work to the people, send the people to the work. Whether from field to factory or from Lanark to London, it's all about, as Norman Tebbit said "getting on your bike and looking for work".
Angela Merkel was at least honest - Germany needs the refugees because it needs cheap labour to maintain economic growth. Britain and the other richer parts of western and northern Europe have the same issue - economic growth is predicated on a ready supply of cheap labour but then in truth it always has been whether that labour has come from the countryside or the Caribbean.
The fall of Communism re-opened a cheap labour source which had been closed by Stalin in 1945. It's easy - people can be employed more easily and cheaply than doing proper R&D and improving business processes. That's where we are - unskilled labour is cheap and plentiful with the SM but it has to be fed and housed and it wants to bring its family to live here too.
The consequence is a new generation of slums in London with 20 or more living in a three-bedroom house in Harrow or Dagenham or East Ham but that's fine because GDP is growing at 1.8% per year. The social price of the economic model became a political price in 2016.
All very true. But Brexit is not going to change any of it.
If Remainers want a second vote, then they must relentlessly focus on destroying Corbyn, and getting a pro-People's Vote leader at the top of Labour. Thornberry?
It's probably too late to stop Brexit as is, but they could go into the next GE calling for a new referendum: and then win it, and we Return.
No, I doharge.
I bow to your superior knowledge of Labour members, but I think you miss my point.
The chances of holding a 2nd referendum (before Brexit) are already very small. It's a pointless fight. Not going to happen. A deal will surely be done. And we will Brexit.
But let's imagine that the deal is shite (not exactly hard). A Labour party dedicated to a new referendum, taking us back in, would do, I think, very well in the next GE. The Tories are the Brexit party, the LibDems, are nowhere, I think that Labour (as the revote party) could easily win the GE in 2022 if the deal looks crap. And so we return in about 2023.
But this depends on Labour getting a europhile lefty leadership rather than a sceptic Corbynite lefty leaderership.
Not sure it's even that hard. The left of the Labour Party have always been big on empowering members. I don't think Mr Corbyn would welcome a conference vote in favour of remaining/rejoining but I think he'd go along with it. After all he did campaign to remain, albeit without the skill we were later to learn he possesses.
We have heard how despite his longstanding positions he is not that bothered about it now, and I think the much praised if deeply cycnical 'masterly inactivity' is a sign of that, so I'd think if there is a definitive shift in the country and the membership push it more he could well switch to a remain position. I don't think it the most likely position right now, but if the deal undermines the Tories even more than it already is, perhaps at that point Labour will jump. I certainly think it quite likely he will change position to backing a referendum, since he will not want to vote for any deal.
And I know the arguments about how he cannot do some of the things he wants while within the EU, but I honestly believe that despite his image, for better and worse, of immutability of various views, he is now more flexible than he used to be, and I think he would see become PM within the EU as better than still not being PM outside it, if he comes to see that that is the choice.
Entirely right. Brexit is partly a refusal by many cowardly UK governments (of left and right) to make welfare contributory. The longer you live here, the more loyalty to the state you show (extra gold stars for military or charitable service!), then the more entitled you are to help. This is how it should be. If you are a Pole or Bulgarian who has just arrived, and you are homeless and unemployed, you should get almost nothing. Maybe zero. Maybe a bus ticket home.
Brexit was created by grave and serious errors by British AND European governance.
It's all down to Freedom of Movement for people as enshrined by the pernicious mechanism known as the Single Market so beloved of Mrs Thatcher and the Conservatives. Maybe you should mention that to your "lefty" wife.
The rationale is simple - it's the same one that has perpetuated economic growth for three centuries - don't send the work to the people, send the people to the work. Whether from field to factory or from Lanark to London, it's all about, as Norman Tebbit said "getting on your bike and looking for work".
Angela Merkel was at least honest - Germany needs the refugees because it needs cheap labour to maintain economic growth. Britain and the other richer parts of western and northern Europe have the same issue - economic growth is predicated on a ready supply of cheap labour but then in truth it always has been whether that labour has come from the countryside or the Caribbean.
The fall of Communism re-opened a cheap labour source which had been closed by Stalin in 1945. It's easy - people can be employed more easily and cheaply than doing proper R&D and improving business processes. That's where we are - unskilled labour is cheap and plentiful with the SM but it has to be fed and housed and it wants to bring its family to live here too.
The consequence is a new generation of slums in London with 20 or more living in a three-bedroom house in Harrow or Dagenham or East Ham but that's fine because GDP is growing at 1.8% per year. The social price of the economic model became a political price in 2016.
Only if you believe in the God of economic growth to "beat" your competition. What is wrong with being a nation with lower economic growth that can manage public services better? Do we want 2,5% growth with public services in trouble or 1% growth with public services managed well?
Entirely right. Brexit is partly a refusal by many cowardly UK governments (of left and right) to make welfare contributory. The longer you live here, the more loyalty to the state you show (extra gold stars for military or charitable service!), then the more entitled you are to help. This is how it should be. If you are a Pole or Bulgarian who has just arrived, and you are homeless and unemployed, you should get almost nothing. Maybe zero. Maybe a bus ticket home.
Brexit was created by grave and serious errors by British AND European governance.
It's all down to Freedom of Movement for people as enshrined by the pernicious mechanism known as the Single Market so beloved of Mrs Thatcher and the Conservatives. Maybe you should mention that to your "lefty" wife.
The rationale is simple - it's the same one that has perpetuated economic growth for three centuries - don't send the work to the people, send the people to the work. Whether from field to factory or from Lanark to London, it's all about, as Norman Tebbit said "getting on your bike and looking for work".
Angela Merkel was at least honest - Germany needs the refugees because it needs cheap labour to maintain economic growth. Britain and the other richer parts of western and northern Europe have the same issue - economic growth is predicated on a ready supply of cheap labour but then in truth it always has been whether that labour has come from the countryside or the Caribbean.
The fall of Communism re-opened a cheap labour source which had been closed by Stalin in 1945. It's easy - people can be employed more easily and cheaply than doing proper R&D and improving business processes. That's where we are - unskilled labour is cheap and plentiful with the SM but it has to be fed and housed and it wants to bring its family to live here too.
The consequence is a new generation of slums in London with 20 or more living in a three-bedroom house in Harrow or Dagenham or East Ham but that's fine because GDP is growing at 1.8% per year. The social price of the economic model became a political price in 2016.
Do we want 2,5% growth with public services in trouble or 1% growth with public services managed well?
If only those were the only two options! 1% growth with public services in trouble seems more probable.
Interesting analysis of Daily Mail evolution which will be hlepful to a deal - obviously the Guardian isn't an obvious expert on Mail trends, but newspapers tend to know each other and the analysis looks well-documented:
Still causing trouble in the Cabinet even when he's not in it. While I don't want to see it happen, I can only imagine how well he'd manage a Cabinet, given the example he always set in how to behave.
The fall of Communism re-opened a cheap labour source which had been closed by Stalin in 1945. It's easy - people can be employed more easily and cheaply than doing proper R&D and improving business processes. That's where we are - unskilled labour is cheap and plentiful with the SM but it has to be fed and housed and it wants to bring its family to live here too.
Come off it! Why do you think the EU not give free movement to Ukraine and Russia?
The fall of Communism re-opened a cheap labour source which had been closed by Stalin in 1945. It's easy - people can be employed more easily and cheaply than doing proper R&D and improving business processes. That's where we are - unskilled labour is cheap and plentiful with the SM but it has to be fed and housed and it wants to bring its family to live here too.
Come off it! Why do you think the EU not give free movement to Ukraine and Russia?
Boris Dad now throw some more petrol on the fire. Called for a burka ban in Telegraph.
Anecdote
My lefty/anarchist wife was once automatically pro-Islamic dress, and pro-anything-Tories-wanted-to-Ban (and vice versa)
It's nothing to do with me, but in the last couple of years she has done a volte-face and is now enraged by her "idiotic lefty friends" who think the niqab and the burqa are just fine because "no man should tell a woman how to dress"
She sees this imbecility for what it is, despises the misogyny of the niqab, and is now, for the first time, actively confronting her universally lefty friends on their stupidity.
She describes it as an epiphany - e.g. one day she suddenly sat up straight and thought: "why the fuck am I defending this awful anti-women dress, and the patriarchal religion underlying it, just because it is brown people that tend to believe it?"
I watch on, politely distant and mildly alarmed, but also intrigued.
There is hope in the generation after the Millennials. The under 23s. They are really thinking. Through her I also see tentative evidence that UK Muslim women themselves are questioning the Patriarchy (and they really do face a Patriarchy)
Let us hope and/or pray.
I do not think you, or your wife know what you are talking about.
I just completed a major assessment into a Bangladeshi extended family, some of the women wore traditional dress, some didn't. What I got a clear sense of is that the women in the family were perfectly empowered, and had the final say on the decisions. The men work and the women manage the family and the household, including the men. And the children are really well looked after.
All very true. But Brexit is not going to change any of it.
Entirely right because the one question on here no one is prepared to ask or answer is what to do with the EU citizens already here.
Javid is apparently going to get them all to fill in an online survey going something like:
1) Do You Have a Job in the UK? Y/N
2) Honestly? Y/N
If you answer Y to both questions you get indefinite leave to stay (apparently). The issue of those who came here "looking for work" and have not only overstayed but gone off the grid and now work for cash in hand seems not to have been actively raised.
Boris Dad now throw some more petrol on the fire. Called for a burka ban in Telegraph.
Anecdote
My lefty/anarchist wife was once automatically pro-Islamic dress, and pro-anything-Tories-wanted-to-Ban (and vice versa)
It's nothing to do with me, but in the last couple of years she has done a volte-face and is now enraged by her "idiotic lefty friends" who think the niqab and the burqa are just fine because "no man should tell a woman how to dress"
She sees this imbecility for what it is, despises the misogyny of the niqab, and is now, for the first time, actively confronting her universally lefty friends on their stupidity.
She describes it as an epiphany - e.g. one day she suddenly sat up straight and thought: "why the fuck am I defending this awful anti-women dress, and the patriarchal religion underlying it, just because it is brown people that tend to believe it?"
I watch on, politely distant and mildly alarmed, but also intrigued.
There is hope in the generation after the Millennials. The under 23s. They are really thinking. Through her I also see tentative evidence that UK Muslim women themselves are questioning the Patriarchy (and they really do face a Patriarchy)
Let us hope and/or pray.
I do not think you, or your wife know what you are talking about.
I just completed a major assessment into a Bangladeshi extended family, some of the women wore traditional dress, some didn't. What I got a clear sense of is that the women in the family were perfectly empowered, and had the final say on the decisions. The men work and the women manage the family and the household, including the men. And the children are really well looked after.
One family is brilliant, therefore every immigrant family is brilliant, you could not make the delusion up if you tried. The question is how many are integrated, how many are not and what is the bell curve?
All very true. But Brexit is not going to change any of it.
Entirely right because the one question on here no one is prepared to ask or answer is what to do with the EU citizens already here.
Javid is apparently going to get them all to fill in an online survey going something like:
1) Do You Have a Job in the UK? Y/N
2) Honestly? Y/N
If you answer Y to both questions you get indefinite leave to stay (apparently). The issue of those who came here "looking for work" and have not only overstayed but gone off the grid and now work for cash in hand seems not to have been actively raised.
The criteria for being given settled status will be based on residence, not whether people have jobs.
Boris Dad now throw some more petrol on the fire. Called for a burka ban in Telegraph.
Anecdote
My lefty/anarchist wife was once automatically pro-Islamic dress, and pro-anything-Tories-wanted-to-Ban (and vice versa)
It's nothing to do with me, but in the last couple of years she has done a volte-face and is now enraged by her "idiotic lefty friends" who think the niqab and the burqa are just fine because "no man should tell a woman how to dress"
She sees this imbecility for what it is, despises the misogyny of the niqab, and is now, for the first time, actively confronting her universally lefty friends on their stupidity.
She describes it as an epiphany - e.g. one day she suddenly sat up straight and thought: "why the fuck am I defending this awful anti-women dress, and the patriarchal religion underlying it, just because it is brown people that tend to believe it?"
I watch on, politely distant and mildly alarmed, but also intrigued.
There is hope in the generation after the Millennials. The under 23s. They are really thinking. Through her I also see tentative evidence that UK Muslim women themselves are questioning the Patriarchy (and they really do face a Patriarchy)
Let us hope and/or pray.
I do not think you, or your wife know what you are talking about.
I just completed a major assessment into a Bangladeshi extended family, some of the women wore traditional dress, some didn't. What I got a clear sense of is that the women in the family were perfectly empowered, and had the final say on the decisions. The men work and the women manage the family and the household, including the men. And the children are really well looked after.
It's not a bad point, but you get good families in any culture. It's the tightness of the constraints that are the issue. What happens when the hausfrau decides she's had enough of hausfrauing and wants a job or an education? What happens when the daughter thinks the religious dress is stupid and doesn't want to wear it? What happens when the son or the daughter (or the mother or the father: it does happen) turns out to be gay, or seeks a partner the family finds unacceptable? What happens when one partner seeks a divorce? Reporting of interfamily violence, incest, the list goes on, and I haven't even mentioned FGM yet.
One of my (many) complaints about PB is its lack of memory. These challenges were encountered and (imperfectly) solved in British Christianity and British Judaism only recently and may still be the source of some pain, but British Islam is still in the early stages of dealing with these issues and may not resolve them
Boris Dad now throw some more petrol on the fire. Called for a burka ban in Telegraph.
Anecdote
My lefty/anarchist wife was once automatically pro-Islamic dress, and pro-anything-Tories-wanted-to-Ban (and vice versa)
It's nothing to do with me, but in the last couple of years she has done a volte-face and is now enraged by her "idiotic lefty friends" who think the niqab and the burqa are just fine because "no man should tell a woman how to dress"
She sees this imbecility for what it is, despises the misogyny of the niqab, and is now, for the first time, actively confronting her universally lefty friends on their stupidity.
She describes it as an epiphany - e.g. one day she suddenly sat up straight and thought: "why the fuck am I defending this awful anti-women dress, and the patriarchal religion underlying it, just because it is brown people that tend to believe it?"
I watch on, politely distant and mildly alarmed, but also intrigued.
There is hope in the generation after the Millennials. The under 23s. They are really thinking. Through her I also see tentative evidence that UK Muslim women themselves are questioning the Patriarchy (and they really do face a Patriarchy)
Let us hope and/or pray.
I do not think you, or your wife know what you are talking about.
I just completed a major assessment into a Bangladeshi extended family, some of the women wore traditional dress, some didn't. What I got a clear sense of is that the women in the family were perfectly empowered, and had the final say on the decisions. The men work and the women manage the family and the household, including the men. And the children are really well looked after.
One family is brilliant, therefore every immigrant family is brilliant, you could not make the delusion up if you tried. The question is how many are integrated, how many are not and what is the bell curve?
It is not for me to help out Tyson but the point he is making is about the culture not one single family.
Boris Dad now throw some more petrol on the fire. Called for a burka ban in Telegraph.
Anecdote
My lefty/anarchist wife was once automatically pro-Islamic dress, and pro-anything-Tories-wanted-to-Ban (and vice versa)
It's nothing to do with me, but in the last couple of years she has done a volte-face and is now enraged by her "idiotic lefty friends" who think the niqab and the burqa are just fine because "no man should tell a woman how to dress"
She sees this imbecility for what it is, despises the misogyny of the niqab, and is now, for the first time, actively confronting her universally lefty friends on their stupidity.
She describes it as an epiphany - e.g. one day she suddenly sat up straight and thought: "why the fuck am I defending this awful anti-women dress, and the patriarchal religion underlying it, just because it is brown people that tend to believe it?"
I watch on, politely distant and mildly alarmed, but also intrigued.
There is hope in the generation after the Millennials. The under 23s. They are really thinking. Through her I also see tentative evidence that UK Muslim women themselves are questioning the Patriarchy (and they really do face a Patriarchy)
Let us hope and/or pray.
I do not think you, or your wife know what you are talking about.
I just completed a major assessment into a Bangladeshi extended family, some of the women wore traditional dress, some didn't. What I got a clear sense of is that the women in the family were perfectly empowered, and had the final say on the decisions. The men work and the women manage the family and the household, including the men. And the children are really well looked after.
Isn’t that just another anecdote? As with everything, there’s probably a continuum.
Brexit In Name Only does NOT honour the referendum result. It is just a total con and a subversion of that result.
In what way does it not honour the result?
Because the nation voted for BREXIT not something else wrongly called BREXIT. Brexit means Brexit, and the bad deal of them all is the con trick Brexit. Vassal state dressed in brexit clothing. That type of brexit is the only brexit so wrong so will result in politicians responsible for it down in history as the worst politicians we ever had. Lowest of low, absolutely reviled.
Interesting analysis of Daily Mail evolution which will be hlepful to a deal - obviously the Guardian isn't an obvious expert on Mail trends, but newspapers tend to know each other and the analysis looks well-documented:
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It is bullshit as even polls nationally which have Remain ahead have the working class still with a Leave majority.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It is bullshit as even polls nationally which have Remain ahead have the working class still with a Leave majority.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
Sorry if it doesn't agree with your world view, but that poll does match my experience in the Midlands. Voters like kicking Tories in the goolies, which meant voting Leave when a Remainer was in charge, and supporting Remain now Tory policy is Leave. Simples!
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It is bullshit as even polls nationally which have Remain ahead have the working class still with a Leave majority.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
Sorry if it doesn't agree with your world view, but that poll does match my experience in the Midlands. Voters like kicking Tories in the goolies, which meant voting Leave when a Remainer was in charge, and supporting Remain now Tory policy is Leave. Simples!
No what complete and utter crap.
See Mansfield in the Midlands which went Tory for the first time in a century in 2017. Leave won mainly because of immigration and the biggest concern over immigration was working class areas, the middle class voted Remain
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It is bullshit as even polls nationally which have Remain ahead have the working class still with a Leave majority.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
Sorry if it doesn't agree with your world view, but that poll does match my experience in the Midlands. Voters like kicking Tories in the goolies, which meant voting Leave when a Remainer was in charge, and supporting Remain now Tory policy is Leave. Simples!
No what complete and utter crap.
See Mansfield in the Midlands which went Tory for the first time in a century in 2017. Leave won mainly because of immigration and the biggest concern over immigration was working class areas, the middle class voted Remain
Face it, you are losing it. Polls are shifting and will shift further. Brexit will be the dead albatross hanging round the necks of the Tories for a generation.
A complete load of rubbish as posted below based largely on extrapolating from a 53% Remain 47% Leave UK sample
A GB sample of over 10,000 using the same methodology as the YouGov GE constituency poll that was uncannily accurate.
The fact even on this poll there are only 341 Remain seats compared to 288 Leave seats despite giving a 6% Remain lead nationwide also shows how meaningless it is
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It is bullshit as even polls nationally which have Remain ahead have the working class still with a Leave majority.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
Sorry if it doesn't agree with your world view, but that poll does match my experience in the Midlands. Voters like kicking Tories in the goolies, which meant voting Leave when a Remainer was in charge, and supporting Remain now Tory policy is Leave. Simples!
No what complete and utter crap.
See Mansfield in the Midlands which went Tory for the first time in a century in 2017. Leave won mainly because of immigration and the biggest concern over immigration was working class areas, the middle class voted Remain
Face it, you are losing it. Polls are shifting and will shift further. Brexit will be the dead albatross hanging round the necks of the Tories for a generation.
Utter bullshit
The only poll that matters is the latest Yougov giving a 4% Tory lead as at the end of the day it is the government and the government and the majority party in Parliament alone which will decide whether we reverse Brexit and have a second EU referendum. That 4% Tory lead will give a small Tory majority for the Chequers Deal terms. This poll is irrelevant
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It is bullshit as even polls nationally which have Remain ahead have the working class still with a Leave majority.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
Sorry if it doesn't agree with your world view, but that poll does match my experience in the Midlands. Voters like kicking Tories in the goolies, which meant voting Leave when a Remainer was in charge, and supporting Remain now Tory policy is Leave. Simples!
No what complete and utter crap.
See Mansfield in the Midlands which went Tory for the first time in a century in 2017. Leave won mainly because of immigration and the biggest concern over immigration was working class areas, the middle class voted Remain
Face it, you are losing it. Polls are shifting and will shift further. Brexit will be the dead albatross hanging round the necks of the Tories for a generation.
Utter bullshit
The only poll that matters is the latest Yougov giving a 4% Tory lead as at the end of the day it is the government and the government and the majority party in Parliament alone which will decide whether we reverse Brexit and have a second EU referendum. That 4% Tory lead will give a small Tory majority for the Chequers Deal terms. This poll is irrelevant
It could be a 10% lead if May called a second referendum. Brexit betrayal is popular.
As far as I can see from the information in the public domain, the poll in The Observer does not use the same method as the very successful YouGov poll before the election (i.e., it does not use Hamiltonian MCMC and Stan).
It looks to me that Remania has become more Leave (perhaps following the lead of the Tory leaders, and PBers) while Leaverstan is getting more sceptical of what is increasingly a Tory Brexit.
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
It is bullshit as even polls nationally which have Remain ahead have the working class still with a Leave majority.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
Sorry if it doesn't agree with your world view, but that poll does match my experience in the Midlands. Voters like kicking Tories in the goolies, which meant voting Leave when a Remainer was in charge, and supporting Remain now Tory policy is Leave. Simples!
No what complete and utter crap.
See Mansfield in the Midlands which went Tory for the first time in a century in 2017. Leave won mainly because of immigration and the biggest concern over immigration was working class areas, the middle class voted Remain
Face it, you are losing it. Polls are shifting and will shift further. Brexit will be the dead albatross hanging round the necks of the Tories for a generation.
Personally I think that Brexit will be cathartic as it will discharge the 2016 mandate and end the tiresome 'will of the people' meme. The focus will swiftly turn to the question of where we go from here. It will be blank sheets all round and a demand for creative thinking.
Comments
Volumes on sale seems to have increased even if county sources haven't - there were about 80 1kg boxes available today.
And British blueberries have reappeared after an absence of a few weeks.
If its sunny and looks okay then they might bat for another hour.
Even Germany now has issues with benefits shopping. So does Belgium.
I just think Theresa May is appalling at politics. She should have made a national broadcast after she agreed it, then taken it round the studios and around the country selling it.
May's plans are similar to the transition controls we could have had on East European free movement in 2004 but Blair refused to implement
But they wouldn't automatically be entitled to an NI number and hence the right to work here, as they are at present.
I hope everyone has a good week and look forward to resuming my awesome puns from about the 20th.
It sounds more like a modified version of the DCFTA which exists between the EU and the likes of Georgia, Moldova and the Ukraine which allows the countries access to the SM but leaves migration from these countries at the behest of individual EU states. It's cited as an example of how non-EEA members can be incorporated into the Single Market.
It is similar to the transition controls we should have had in 2004 and the lack of which were crucial to Leave getting over 50%
If a Government had done this before the ref there would have been no Brexit.
https://twitter.com/observeruk/status/1028355371138785280?s=21
Let it go.
One seat has switched support in Scotland and 97 have switched in England, while 14 of the 40 seats in Wales have changed from Leave to Remain. Overall, the model puts Remain on 53% support, with 47% backing Leave....
...Data scientists compiling the study used a technique known as multi-level regression and post-stratification, similar to that used by YouGov in its pre-election model, which proved far more accurate than conventional opinion polls. However, the polling sample used by YouGov for its election model was much bigger, covering some 50,000 people.
Among the constituencies to switch from Leave to Remain is that of Boris Johnson, the former foreign secretary and face of the Leave campaign. Support for Remain in his Uxbridge and South Ruislip constituency has risen from 43.6% to 51.4%, according to the new model.
Surrey Heath, the constituency of the other Leave figurehead, Michael Gove, also emerged as having a pro-Remain majority. Support for Remain increased from 48% in 2016 to 50.2%. There was also a 12.8-point swing to Remain in shadow chancellor John McDonnell’s seat of Hayes and Harlington.
The seats of three pro-Leave Labour MPs switched to Remain. Birkenhead, Frank Field’s constituency, now has a 58.4% majority in favour of Remain. Graham Stringer’s Blackley and Broughton constituency now has a 59% in favour of Remain. Kelvin Hopkins’s Luton North seat now has 53.1% backing Remain.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
The rationale is simple - it's the same one that has perpetuated economic growth for three centuries - don't send the work to the people, send the people to the work. Whether from field to factory or from Lanark to London, it's all about, as Norman Tebbit said "getting on your bike and looking for work".
Angela Merkel was at least honest - Germany needs the refugees because it needs cheap labour to maintain economic growth. Britain and the other richer parts of western and northern Europe have the same issue - economic growth is predicated on a ready supply of cheap labour but then in truth it always has been whether that labour has come from the countryside or the Caribbean.
The fall of Communism re-opened a cheap labour source which had been closed by Stalin in 1945. It's easy - people can be employed more easily and cheaply than doing proper R&D and improving business processes. That's where we are - unskilled labour is cheap and plentiful with the SM but it has to be fed and housed and it wants to bring its family to live here too.
The consequence is a new generation of slums in London with 20 or more living in a three-bedroom house in Harrow or Dagenham or East Ham but that's fine because GDP is growing at 1.8% per year. The social price of the economic model became a political price in 2016.
And I know the arguments about how he cannot do some of the things he wants while within the EU, but I honestly believe that despite his image, for better and worse, of immutability of various views, he is now more flexible than he used to be, and I think he would see become PM within the EU as better than still not being PM outside it, if he comes to see that that is the choice.
What is wrong with being a nation with lower economic growth that can manage public services better?
Do we want 2,5% growth with public services in trouble or 1% growth with public services managed well?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/aug/11/new-daily-mail-editor-will-strike-tolerant-brexit-note
I just completed a major assessment into a Bangladeshi extended family, some of the women wore traditional dress, some didn't. What I got a clear sense of is that the women in the family were perfectly empowered, and had the final say on the decisions. The men work and the women manage the family and the household, including the men. And the children are really well looked after.
Javid is apparently going to get them all to fill in an online survey going something like:
1) Do You Have a Job in the UK? Y/N
2) Honestly? Y/N
If you answer Y to both questions you get indefinite leave to stay (apparently). The issue of those who came here "looking for work" and have not only overstayed but gone off the grid and now work for cash in hand seems not to have been actively raised.
The question is how many are integrated, how many are not and what is the bell curve?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/718237/EU_Settlement_Scheme_SOI_June_2018.pdf
One of my (many) complaints about PB is its lack of memory. These challenges were encountered and (imperfectly) solved in British Christianity and British Judaism only recently and may still be the source of some pain, but British Islam is still in the early stages of dealing with these issues and may not resolve them
So not all bad news then if it happened.
Major new analysis shows most constituencies now have majority who want to Remain"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
Largely based on extrapolating from a 53% Remain 47% Leave UK sample
It looks like the wind is blowing to Remain for Labour at least. The new division is remodelling as the old party lines. Jezza is going to have to shift, his house is increasingly made on sand.
Sone shift in the Home Counties which only narrowly voted Leave maybe but not in the working class areas of the North and Midlands which had the biggest Leave margins
See Mansfield in the Midlands which went Tory for the first time in a century in 2017. Leave won mainly because of immigration and the biggest concern over immigration was working class areas, the middle class voted Remain
The only poll that matters is the latest Yougov giving a 4% Tory lead as at the end of the day it is the government and the government and the majority party in Parliament alone which will decide whether we reverse Brexit and have a second EU referendum. That 4% Tory lead will give a small Tory majority for the Chequers Deal terms. This poll is irrelevant
https://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-435895.html
"Research employing emotional and mathematical measurement methods to explore the true meaning of public opinion."
WTF does "emotional and mathematical measurement methods" mean?