I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
Edit - I am surprised that anyone genuinely says 'Go back to X' though, I assumed such talk was always coded.
So when Gandalf told the Balrog to go back to the shadow he was being a racist old duffer?
After that he stopped even pretending - Gandalf the White to take down Saruman of many colours, who championed some of the more oppressed races of Middle Earth? Subtle.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
We are increasingly in culture wars of nationalists and protectionists v free trading liberals in most of the West
Sadly true. And the bad guys are winning...
The problem is that nobody has come up with a rational and sensible package of measures that finds a middle way through continuing all that is great about globalisation while also listening to the concerns of those most affected by it. And this will only continue to expand as a problem with the rise of AI, China becoming the worlds most dominant power etc.
The message is either "keep calm and carry on" or "back to the 70s, up the werkers socialism".
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
Just look under most tweets by Sajid Javid.
On one hand you've got the FreeTommy brigade blasting Muslim Sajid for putting Tommy in a halal prison (yeah, wtf is a halal prison) and on the other hand you've got enough left leaning people calling him an uncle Tom/coconut for the hostile environment.
We are increasingly in culture wars of nationalists and protectionists v free trading liberals in most of the West
Sadly true. And the bad guys are winning...
The problem is that nobody has come up with a rational and sensible package of measures that acts finds a middle way through continuing all that is great about globalisation while also listening to the concerns of those affected most effected by it. And this will only continue to expand as a problem with the rise of AI, China becoming the worlds most dominant power etc.
The message is either "keep calm and carry on" or "back to the 70s, up the werkers socialism".
Centralist liberalism, (and Remainerism), will not find its mojo again until it deals with the capture of wealth by a small elite.
After 10 years or more of wage stagnation, people don’t believe the system is working for broader society any more.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
Just look under most tweets by Sajid Javid.
On one hand you've got the FreeTommy brigade blasting Muslim Sajid for putting Tommy in a halal prison (yeah, wtf is a halal prison) and on the other hand you've got enough left leaning people calling him an uncle Tom/coconut for the hostile environment.
There are people out there like that, but do they represent the average Labour voter or member? I’m inclined to think not.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
(yeah, wtf is a halal prison).
Not to give credence to Robinson supporters, I would presume it's a prison which serves food which is halal - I recall the first episode of Porridge had Fletcher encouraging Godber to say he was of a faith other than CoE in order to get different, presumably better, food. I would have thought all our prisons were halal though, human rights issue.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
Just look under most tweets by Sajid Javid.
On one hand you've got the FreeTommy brigade blasting Muslim Sajid for putting Tommy in a halal prison (yeah, wtf is a halal prison) and on the other hand you've got enough left leaning people calling him an uncle Tom/coconut for the hostile environment.
There are people out there like that, but do they represent the average Labour voter or member? I’m inclined to think not.
I certainly don't think so, and such talk would be dealt with much more quickly than much of the antisemitism stuff, but some number will go down that route at least. Of course, we know it will terrify or outrage some right wingers for very different reasons.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
First, Mr Eagles, apologies for daring to take you out of context yesterday evening. You did say the words "Tory gains" with reference to the 2019 local elections but I realise you were talking only about Conservatives gaining some of the 200 or so UKIP seats up for grabs as distinct from trying to defend the 5,500 Conservative seats.
On topic, you have to go back to Churchill in 1940 for a person becoming PM outside a GE who was not serving as CoE, HS or FS. Even in the inter-war period, I believe Chamberlain was CoE when taking over from Baldwin and Baldwin was CoE when he took over from Bonar Law (and I think he continued as CoE even after becoming PM). Lloyd George was Chancellor when taking over from Asquith so that leaves Bonar Law who took over in 1922 from Austen Chamberlain (as Conservative leader) and Lloyd George (as PM).
Replacing a PM in office is emphatically different from replacing a defeated PM after an election. I could see Boris emerging from the wreckage of a defeated Conservative Party to take over.
As for 1990, as is widely known (except by some it seems), the vote for Heseltine in the first ballot was to force Thatcher out and allow her Cabinet colleagues who were bound to support her to enter the fray (a similar tactic failed spectacularly in 1975 when Thatcher not only won the first ballot but got so much momentum she was able to defeat Whitelaw in the second ballot).
Heseltine knew once Thatcher had resigned his chances of becoming leader and PM were gone - the "establishment" rallied to Major rather than Hurd (and Major had the "blessing" of Margaret as well) and the rest is history.
Forcing May out via a No Confidence vote would allow senior Cabinet members such as Javid and Hunt to either stand against each other or agree a joint anti-Boris candidature. As an aside, would all this still mean a ballot of Party members or in practice would the defeated candidate withdraw and allow the leading candidate to become PM as soon as possible?
Lloyd George ceased to be Chancellor in 1915 when he became Minister for Munitions - and had resigned from Asquith's government before being appointed his successor as PM in December 1916.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
A position that was endorsed by the voters of Scotland in 2014.
I can't remember the benefits of being legislated over by CoE god botherers at the forefront of Bettertogether I's campaign, but I'll certainly look forward to highlighting it when Bettertogether II comes around.
Are you saying Scots are too wee, too stupid to understand what they were voting for in 2014?
Heaven forfend!
That would mean going down the road of comparing 2014 No voters with 2016 Leave voters, and WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
A position that was endorsed by the voters of Scotland in 2014.
I can't remember the benefits of being legislated over by CoE god botherers at the forefront of Bettertogether I's campaign, but I'll certainly look forward to highlighting it when Bettertogether II comes around.
Are you saying Scots are too wee, too stupid to understand what they were voting for in 2014?
Heaven forfend!
That would mean going down the road of comparing 2014 No voters with 2016 Leave voters, and WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.
It makes my head hurt trying to work out how some voters voted No in 2014, SNP in 2015, and Tory in 2017.
Depends what one defines as `great ministers of state`. Some people might include defence or health.Williamson seems to be making enemies but Hancock 66/1 is going under the radar. Penny Mordaunt 66/1 might be the next foreign secretary whilst Liz Truss 100/1 might be the next chancellor.Both given that are big odds I`ve also had a bet on ex-education secretary Justine Greening at 200/1.She is establishing herself as the 2nd referendum candidate.Being well known for her passion for social mobility should get followers whilst Ruth Davidson shows being in a same sex marriage does not seem to harm ones popularity. No Tory MP I`m aware of it has suggesting suspending Brexit .There are good arguments to do so and a Tory MP who tries to claim that space might build a support base for a leadership challenge.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
Edit - I am surprised that anyone genuinely says 'Go back to X' though, I assumed such talk was always coded.
So when Gandalf told the Balrog to go back to the shadow he was being a racist old duffer?
Yup, Gandolf THE WHITE was him showing off his KKK support.
?? Gandalf the Grey, shirley?
Gandalf the Grey suffered a near death and then returned with much more power as Gandalf the White. If you haven't read the books, a bit like Corbyn before and after the 2017 general election.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
(yeah, wtf is a halal prison).
Not to give credence to Robinson supporters, I would presume it's a prison which serves food which is halal - I recall the first episode of Porridge had Fletcher encouraging Godber to say he was of a faith other than CoE in order to get different, presumably better, food. I would have thought all our prisons were halal though, human rights issue.
I'm staying on the right side of the law until we get organic Fairtrade prisons.
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
Would you put some names to these 'cowards and liars' who have emigrated ?
The only Leaver I know who has emigrated in the last two years is Robert Smithson.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
(yeah, wtf is a halal prison).
Not to give credence to Robinson supporters, I would presume it's a prison which serves food which is halal - I recall the first episode of Porridge had Fletcher encouraging Godber to say he was of a faith other than CoE in order to get different, presumably better, food. I would have thought all our prisons were halal though, human rights issue.
I'm staying on the right side of the law until we get organic Fairtrade prisons.
Or you could create your own religion in which consumption of such items was a requirement:
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
Shh, don't give the game away. If they don't think the left will hate having a another Tory woman PM, or hate having a Tory BAME PM or hate having the Tories legalise gay marriage they might end up picking old white men harking back to the past forever and unfortunately as they will be in power sometimes I'd rather have them 'spite the liberals' by being progressive now and again.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
If they don't think the left will hate having a another Tory woman PM, or hate having a Tory BAME PM or hate having the Tories legalise gay marriage they might end up picking old white men harking back to the past forever
Dare I be the first to mention Corbyn in this context?
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
Would you put some names to these 'cowards and liars' who have emigrated ?
The only Leaver I know who has emigrated in the last two years is Robert Smithson.
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
Would you put some names to these 'cowards and liars' who have emigrated ?
The only Leaver I know who has emigrated in the last two years is Robert Smithson.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
If they don't think the left will hate having a another Tory woman PM, or hate having a Tory BAME PM or hate having the Tories legalise gay marriage they might end up picking old white men harking back to the past forever
Dare I be the first to mention Corbyn in this context?
Aside from the part to do with homosexuality, where Corbyn was decades in front of the Tory party, it could work...
Although from my point of view Corbyn is a breath of fresh air after the stale end to the New Labour years.
His comments came as the plane-maker Bombardier said that stockpiling parts to mitigate the impact of a no-deal Brexit would cost its Belfast business up to £30m. Michael Ryan, the head of the firm’s Northern Ireland operation, said spending such a sum to store goods is “not how we can afford to run a business” and is “cash that I don’t have”.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
If they don't think the left will hate having a another Tory woman PM, or hate having a Tory BAME PM or hate having the Tories legalise gay marriage they might end up picking old white men harking back to the past forever
Dare I be the first to mention Corbyn in this context?
Aside from the part to do with homosexuality, where Corbyn was decades in front of the Tory party, it could work...
Although from my point of view Corbyn is a breath of fresh air after the stale end to the New Labour years.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
One of the reasons I'd love for Sajid Javid to be PM would be Labour would lose their collective poop.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.
Would they? I know plenty of Labour supporters in real life and I never hear them say ‘my worse case scenario is Javid becoming PM because the Tories will have the first BAME PM.’ In fact it only seems to get mentioned with any great frequency on here.
If they don't think the left will hate having a another Tory woman PM, or hate having a Tory BAME PM or hate having the Tories legalise gay marriage they might end up picking old white men harking back to the past forever
Dare I be the first to mention Corbyn in this context?
Aside from the part to do with homosexuality, where Corbyn was decades in front of the Tory party, it could work...
Although from my point of view Corbyn is a breath of fresh air after the stale end to the New Labour years.
I'll take the admission!
Good night.
My free/cheap court appointed / backalley lawyers will tear you to shreds!
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
FFS. Labour moderates need to organise and walk away.
They must take the decision and resign the whip. Anything else is to surrender their integrity
I think we have reached that point. The endless, 'we will stick around and see what happens/we can sit it out for ten years until the membership changes/it's my party' etc etc is wearing bloody thin frankly.
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
If 12 -18 go it will turn into a landslide of leavers and a new Independent labour block in the HOC
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
Your 'giving members votes' sounds nice but will end up eating the party alive in a sea of cult madness, obsession with finding the only pure person who never compromises, accusing anyone who breaths of being a Blairite traitor, and destroy Labour.
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
If 12 -18 go it will turn into a landslide of leavers and a new Independent labour block in the HOC
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
If 12 -18 go it will turn into a landslide of leavers and a new Independent labour block in the HOC
After those have gone that is most of the noise, aside from them you have people who disagree on a few issues but wouldn't let that stop them getting a Labour government rather than a Conservative one.
A few stepped down at the last election, you'd probably have a few step down at the next election as well so there really won't be many who would want to leave and fight for their seat.
You also have the problem of are Kate Hoey and Frank Field for example (if deselected) going to fit into that group?
It is no good just saying Corbyn sceptic, they have to have a shared policy platform that is sufficiently different from Labour otherwise there is no point voting for them or defecting to them, aside from those who really don't like Corbyn, which is pretty much back to the original number. Some going could encourage others to go but there are too many contradictions and memories of the SDP to make it anything big.
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
If 12 -18 go it will turn into a landslide of leavers and a new Independent labour block in the HOC
After those have gone that is most of the noise, aside from them you have people who disagree on a few issues but wouldn't let that stop them getting a Labour government rather than a Conservative one.
A few stepped down at the last election, you'd probably have a few step down at the next election as well so there really won't be many who would want to leave and fight for their seat.
You also have the problem of are Kate Hoey and Frank Field for example (if deselected) going to fit into that group?
It is no good just saying Corbyn sceptic, they have to have a shared policy platform that is sufficiently different from Labour otherwise there is no point voting for them or defecting to them, aside from those who really don't like Corbyn, which is pretty much back to the original number. Some going could encourage others to go but there are too many contradictions and memories of the SDP to make it anything big.
I believe labour are as near to a fracture now than at anytime since the SDP
The hate against Tom Watson is truely bewildering. Parts of labour have descended into the abyss
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
Your 'giving members votes' sounds nice but will end up eating the party alive in a sea of cult madness, obsession with finding the only pure person who never compromises, accusing anyone who breaths of being a Blairite traitor, and destroy Labour.
There were people getting excited about it being a declaration of war from Watson, the members back the leader and the direction he is taking so will not like attempts to destabilise that.
There is debate within the Labour party, for example the whole EU issue, people's vote etc. what Labour supporters are tired off after almost 3 years of it now is the pointless attacking of the leadership. That is why it would be healthier if those small number on the fringes did leave then we could have more debates about policy within the party rather than the constant Corbyn bashing which is probably just counter productive at this point...
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
If 12 -18 go it will turn into a landslide of leavers and a new Independent labour block in the HOC
After those have gone that is most of the noise, aside from them you have people who disagree on a few issues but wouldn't let that stop them getting a Labour government rather than a Conservative one.
A few stepped down at the last election, you'd probably have a few step down at the next election as well so there really won't be many who would want to leave and fight for their seat.
You also have the problem of are Kate Hoey and Frank Field for example (if deselected) going to fit into that group?
It is no good just saying Corbyn sceptic, they have to have a shared policy platform that is sufficiently different from Labour otherwise there is no point voting for them or defecting to them, aside from those who really don't like Corbyn, which is pretty much back to the original number. Some going could encourage others to go but there are too many contradictions and memories of the SDP to make it anything big.
Isn't this rump going be pro Remain ? So how does Field, Hoey etc. fit in ? Or, will it be dog's breakfast ?
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
Your 'giving members votes' sounds nice but will end up eating the party alive in a sea of cult madness, obsession with finding the only pure person who never compromises, accusing anyone who breaths of being a Blairite traitor, and destroy Labour.
There were people getting excited about it being a declaration of war from Watson, the members back the leader and the direction he is taking so will not like attempts to destabilise that.
There is debate within the Labour party, for example the whole EU issue, people's vote etc. what Labour supporters are tired off after almost 3 years of it now is the pointless attacking of the leadership. That is why it would be healthier if those small number on the fringes did leave then we could have more debates about policy within the party rather than the constant Corbyn bashing which is probably just counter productive at this point...
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
I just read the Guardian article on Tom Watson's comments. What he said is very similar to what John McDonnell has been saying for a while. So presumably the ice-pick is on its way to him too.
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
After those have gone that is most of the noise, aside from them you have people who disagree on a few issues but wouldn't let that stop them getting a Labour government rather than a Conservative one.
A few stepped down at the last election, you'd probably have a few step down at the next election as well so there really won't be many who would want to leave and fight for their seat.
You also have the problem of are Kate Hoey and Frank Field for example (if deselected) going to fit into that group?
It is no good just saying Corbyn sceptic, they have to have a shared policy platform that is sufficiently different from Labour otherwise there is no point voting for them or defecting to them, aside from those who really don't like Corbyn, which is pretty much back to the original number. Some going could encourage others to go but there are too many contradictions and memories of the SDP to make it anything big.
Isn't this rump going be pro Remain ? So how does Field, Hoey etc. fit in ? Or, will it be dog's breakfast ?
If it took in Hoey and Field it would be more pro Brexit than Labour.
It is the problem with the Corbyn sceptic rebellion idea, the range of people and ideas don't give them any consistent platform.
I can't see Flint going and I think Chuka is unlikely as well but just for an example. What is the shared Brexit policy of Flint, Chuka and Hoey that doesn't end up somewhere near Labours current policy or in complete disagreement?
Even if you take Hoey out of there Cuka and Flint say different things. Brexit is just one issue, there are plenty of others that cut across that mean a Labour breakaway party would end up offering little different to the actual Labour party once they compromise or such a small ideologically pure group that it wouldn't attract many other MPs or voters.
There is a chance of a new party forming from some Labour some Tory and the Lib Dems but that would be ideologically removed enough from Labour MPs that again only a small number would join it.
Stephen Bush has mentioned a few times a range of 12-18 (somewhere round that) who have been seriously thinking about it or are on the edge of leaving.
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
Your 'giving members votes' sounds nice but will end up eating the party alive in a sea of cult madness, obsession with finding the only pure person who never compromises, accusing anyone who breaths of being a Blairite traitor, and destroy Labour.
There were people getting excited about it being a declaration of war from Watson, the members back the leader and the direction he is taking so will not like attempts to destabilise that.
There is debate within the Labour party, for example the whole EU issue, people's vote etc. what Labour supporters are tired off after almost 3 years of it now is the pointless attacking of the leadership. That is why it would be healthier if those small number on the fringes did leave then we could have more debates about policy within the party rather than the constant Corbyn bashing which is probably just counter productive at this point...
But the people who don't care that much for Corbyn aren't a "small number on the fringes". It wasn't that long ago that JC himself was the embodiment of the Labour fringe. Labour moderates have been exceedingly conciliatory, considering the fact that they, not unreasonably, don't think it's wise for the party to lurch too far to the left. And Corbyn has tried to hold the party together too. All the talk of deselection and expulsion comes from people who seem to have more in common with the politics of Soviet Russia than with those of Great Britain.
It's well worth remembering that all hard-left movements, without any exception, end up fracturing into multiple warring factions (literally warring in some cases). This one will be the same, the only question is whether it will gain power before it destroys the Labour Party.
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
I just read the Guardian article on Tom Watson's comments. What he said is very similar to what John McDonnell has been saying for a while. So presumably the ice-pick is on its way to him too.
Yep. Eventually the revolution eats itself as history shows.
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
I just read the Guardian article on Tom Watson's comments. What he said is very similar to what John McDonnell has been saying for a while. So presumably the ice-pick is on its way to him too.
McDonnell’s comments, by both the commentariat and Corbynistas were, for whatever reasons, not seen as a declaration of war in the way Watson’s was.
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
No it is not bewildering, but it does show that devotion to the man is the primary motivation. Which also is not bewildering, given the sort doing it are often the sort who get angry at the admission of a problem even as Corbyn (in his own way admittedly) also says there is a problem.
Any party should be wary when there is such devotion to a leader, never mind validity of any criticism, whether any criticism was all that direct or harsh, never mind consistency. It would be a very very rare leader, I would suggest, who would deserve that. I actually would like to think Corbyn would be humble enough to suggest he does not deserve such veneration.
It’s not really bewildering that Corbynistas ‘hate’ Tom Watson. I agree with Watson’s intervention, but that was widely seen as an attempt to undermine Corbyn. Thus, it is obvious that Corbynistas will (as they always have been) be furiously angry at any attempt to undermine their leader.
I just read the Guardian article on Tom Watson's comments. What he said is very similar to what John McDonnell has been saying for a while. So presumably the ice-pick is on its way to him too.
McDonnell’s comments, by both the commentariat and Corbynistas were, for whatever reasons, not seen as a declaration of war in the way Watson’s was.
Well, McDonnell did follow up highlighting his many decades of working with his comrade - Watson is presumably finding that kowtowing and singing 'Oh Jeremy Corbyn' only buys him so much leeway, given his very different history within the party.
It's well worth remembering that all hard-left movements, without any exception, end up fracturing into multiple warring factions (literally warring in some cases). This one will be the same, the only question is whether it will gain power before it destroys the Labour Party.
My money is on it being after. Circumstances are so chaotic and unusual, and the prize is so close they know if they hold together for just a little bit longer they have a good chance here. It prevents anything but grumbling - Corbyn's people will draw back from the brink of a confrontation. If they want people out, easing them out not forcing them seems to be the strategy.
Comments
Social media shows the ugly side of many people across the political spectrum. See what that Tory MEP said about Remainers and treason, for another example.
'I'm ever so sorry that you're too stupid to understand nuance, I wish you had a vagina on your head so someone could f*** some sense into you'
The message is either "keep calm and carry on" or "back to the 70s, up the werkers socialism".
http://www.basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2007/2/25/how-to-apologize-without-accepting-any-blame.html
On one hand you've got the FreeTommy brigade blasting Muslim Sajid for putting Tommy in a halal prison (yeah, wtf is a halal prison) and on the other hand you've got enough left leaning people calling him an uncle Tom/coconut for the hostile environment.
After 10 years or more of wage stagnation, people don’t believe the system is working for broader society any more.
England's most senior GP has resigned after he was caught trolling medics online using a fake profile.
Dr Arvind Madan, the director of primary care at NHS England, suggested family doctors are greedy and workshy in anonymous posts on a GP forum.
His posts on the Pulse magazine's website, under the name Devil's Advocate, prompted dozens of angry replies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6028829/NHS-boss-RESIGNS-sparking-fury-using-fake-Devils-Advocate-profile-troll-GPs.html
Edit: Now that you have destroyed my respect for Gandalf, please do not tell me anything I did not know about Atticus Finch.
I don't understand the mentality of winding up people online.
That would mean going down the road of comparing 2014 No voters with 2016 Leave voters, and WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.
Some people might include defence or health.Williamson seems to be making enemies but Hancock 66/1 is going under the radar.
Penny Mordaunt 66/1 might be the next foreign secretary whilst Liz Truss 100/1 might be the next chancellor.Both given that are big odds
I`ve also had a bet on ex-education secretary Justine Greening at 200/1.She is establishing herself as the 2nd referendum candidate.Being well known for her passion for social mobility should get followers whilst Ruth Davidson shows being in a same sex marriage does not seem to harm ones popularity.
No Tory MP I`m aware of it has suggesting suspending Brexit .There are good arguments to do so and a Tory MP who tries to claim that space might build a support base for a leadership challenge.
I'm still reeling from the time I was accused of writing/publishing clickbait.
I wouldn't know how too.
Um, is it where you need to slop out five times a day?
<end trolling
"how to" I think you mean!
That AV?
The only Leaver I know who has emigrated in the last two years is Robert Smithson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon
Although from my point of view Corbyn is a breath of fresh air after the stale end to the New Labour years.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/05/theresa-may-confident-of-reaching-brexit-deal-sources-say
Good night.
Goodnight.
These people are mad. I mean mad beyond any rational debate. They are so far into the Cult that they have lost all grasp of the reality.
https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1026207885104242689
I think everyone would be a bit happier with the arrangement. Most of the regular people who are really unhappy with the leadership will have already left the party anyway so they could join back up with them if they wanted in a new party. The Labour party would then have less divisions and could concentrate on opposing the Tories rather than fighting each other.
We could then continue our Stalinesque policies of giving members votes and a say in internal Labour matters whilst they could have a much more people controlled party where those high up in the party make the decisions.
As an example of this insanity:
https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1026207885104242689
A few stepped down at the last election, you'd probably have a few step down at the next election as well so there really won't be many who would want to leave and fight for their seat.
You also have the problem of are Kate Hoey and Frank Field for example (if deselected) going to fit into that group?
It is no good just saying Corbyn sceptic, they have to have a shared policy platform that is sufficiently different from Labour otherwise there is no point voting for them or defecting to them, aside from those who really don't like Corbyn, which is pretty much back to the original number. Some going could encourage others to go but there are too many contradictions and memories of the SDP to make it anything big.
The hate against Tom Watson is truely bewildering. Parts of labour have descended into the abyss
There is debate within the Labour party, for example the whole EU issue, people's vote etc. what Labour supporters are tired off after almost 3 years of it now is the pointless attacking of the leadership. That is why it would be healthier if those small number on the fringes did leave then we could have more debates about policy within the party rather than the constant Corbyn bashing which is probably just counter productive at this point...
So, rational stuff.
Therefore, Anti-Cult crime of the highest order.
Insanity.
It is the problem with the Corbyn sceptic rebellion idea, the range of people and ideas don't give them any consistent platform.
I can't see Flint going and I think Chuka is unlikely as well but just for an example. What is the shared Brexit policy of Flint, Chuka and Hoey that doesn't end up somewhere near Labours current policy or in complete disagreement?
Even if you take Hoey out of there Cuka and Flint say different things. Brexit is just one issue, there are plenty of others that cut across that mean a Labour breakaway party would end up offering little different to the actual Labour party once they compromise or such a small ideologically pure group that it wouldn't attract many other MPs or voters.
There is a chance of a new party forming from some Labour some Tory and the Lib Dems but that would be ideologically removed enough from Labour MPs that again only a small number would join it.
Any party should be wary when there is such devotion to a leader, never mind validity of any criticism, whether any criticism was all that direct or harsh, never mind consistency. It would be a very very rare leader, I would suggest, who would deserve that. I actually would like to think Corbyn would be humble enough to suggest he does not deserve such veneration.