Well, you are now a minority legally - you are a second class citizen, official.
There are many "Islamic" nations across the Mid East. By definition non-Muslims would be second class? No?
This, for me, is an important point. I think a secularist could oppose the linking of a state to a specific religion if they were opposed to it on a point of principle. But I think we all know that Jezza's lot don't have too much of a problem with other religions being linked to a state.
All nations which are linked to a particular religion is wrong. Saudi Arabia is the biggest offender - our friend ! Officially, Israel was not one until a few weeks back. Now it is also a state where only Jews have the right of self determination.
Funnily enough, you do not see too many posts on this topic from our anti-Jezziahs.
If the Jezziahs were opposed to all nations linked to a particular religion like Iran then it'd be consistent.
However Jezziah is quite happy to support Iran and take paid work on Press TV isn't he? It seems to be only one religion and only one nation that is objected to. There's a word for that.
It's not one nation and one religion. He's quite happy to say nasty things about the UK as well. That said so far as I am aware he has never criticised Christianity.
Corbyn had the guts to criticise Saudi Arabia and arms sales to them. No other politician had the ball£ to say it.
Because Saudi Arabia is an American ally. He opposes our alliances and arms sales to our allies. Try finding an enemy of America he has had the balls to criticise. Try the theocratic state of Iran for starters. Good luck!
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case, they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
The mobility framework is meaningless fluff. What did Shakespeare mean with "a rose by any other name" in your eyes?
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case, they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
The mobility framework is meaningless fluff. What did Shakespeare mean with "a rose by any other name" in your eyes?
You need a job offer on arrival under the mobility framework rather than after 3 months as now
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
No it's only not bullshit if it happens, which it won't. Please name the EU's neighbours whose hauliers are prevented from entering.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
One of the inflection points during the EUref campaign was Cameron's announcement on his renegotiation, which was very poorly received even among the anoraks on here. If May tries to sell her sack of shit to her base, it's going to go down worse.
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case, they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
The mobility framework is meaningless fluff. What did Shakespeare mean with "a rose by any other name" in your eyes?
You need a job offer on arrival under the mobility framework rather than after 3 months as now
The EU haven't agreed to it and it changes nothing. Don't forget that you can arrive as a tourist at any time and job hunt. Then once you have a job offer *bam* job done. Incidentally tourists can he here for 3 months.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework so you need a job offer or offer of study on arrival rather than after 3 months as now
Norway is a "vassal state" and it also has freedom of movement. It seems to sort of work for them, although the government of that country thinks it's nonsense to follow the rules but not take the option of having a say over what they are. The Norwegians are content to outsource a large chunk of their foreign and trade policy to a third party but I am not convinced the UK will readily accept that. I take Norway seriously because I think that's where we will end up. But it isn't.an easy option.
One of the inflection points during the EUref campaign was Cameron's announcement on his renegotiation, which was very poorly received even among the anoraks on here. If May tries to sell her sack of shit to her base, it's going to go down worse.
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
It will only lead to a Labour government if Labour are electable. Most likely IMO is Tories limp on in 2022 like they did in 1992. Kinnock wasn't magically electable the second time around nor will Corbyn be.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
Turkey and Ukraine have deals in place which allow their drivers to drive. We’re discussing what would happen if there is no such deal.
I know this is really hard for you - a bit like reflecting on your own mortality - but do try to internalise what the words ‘no deal’ mean.
People on here will remember better than me - but I THINK there was a poll (for best PM / next PM?) literally only DAYS before Major actually became PM where he scored 3% amongst the public.
The point being his poll rating rose at an absolutely astonishing rate as he came into the picture and the public discovered who he was.
The same could easily happen with someone like Hunt or Javid.
One of the inflection points during the EUref campaign was Cameron's announcement on his renegotiation, which was very poorly received even among the anoraks on here. If May tries to sell her sack of shit to her base, it's going to go down worse.
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
It will only lead to a Labour government if Labour are electable. Most likely IMO is Tories limp on in 2022 like they did in 1992. Kinnock wasn't magically electable the second time around nor will Corbyn be.
I think Labour's base is pretty solid. The Tories will lose the election, rather than Labour win it, because a good chunk of the Tory base is going to sit on its hands.
One of the inflection points during the EUref campaign was Cameron's announcement on his renegotiation, which was very poorly received even among the anoraks on here. If May tries to sell her sack of shit to her base, it's going to go down worse.
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
It will only lead to a Labour government if Labour are electable. Most likely IMO is Tories limp on in 2022 like they did in 1992. Kinnock wasn't magically electable the second time around nor will Corbyn be.
In 1992 though the right was united behind Major who got 42% ie the same as May in 2017.
By 1997 the right was not united behind Major and almost a million 1992 Tories voted Referendum Party and UKIP and 2 million stayed home (more combined than the 2 million who switched to Labour or the LDs) and Blair won a landslide and Major got just 30%
People on here will remember better than me - but I THINK there was a poll (for best PM / next PM?) literally only DAYS before Major actually became PM where he scored 3% amongst the public.
The point being his poll rating rose at an absolutely astonishing rate as he came into the picture and the public discovered who he was.
The same could easily happen with someone like Hunt or Javid.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
One of the inflection points during the EUref campaign was Cameron's announcement on his renegotiation, which was very poorly received even among the anoraks on here. If May tries to sell her sack of shit to her base, it's going to go down worse.
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
Under a BINO Tory leader probably.
The irony is if a BINO Tory leader loses the next general election the Tories will elect a hard Brexiteer anyway to succeed them meaning at least the next decade if not more will be under a Corbyn Labour or hard Brexit Tory government
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
One of the inflection points during the EUref campaign was Cameron's announcement on his renegotiation, which was very poorly received even among the anoraks on here. If May tries to sell her sack of shit to her base, it's going to go down worse.
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
Afternoon from a gloriously sunny Lake District!
A Labour government I could live with. It’s the SWP/BNP-lite government masquerading under the Labour brand which is the problem.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework so you need a job offer or offer of study on arrival rather than after 3 months as now
Norway is a "vassal state" and it also has freedom of movement. It seems to sort of work for them, although the government of that country thinks it's nonsense to follow the rules but not take the option of having a say over what they are. The Norwegians are content to outsource a large chunk of their foreign and trade policy to a third party but I am not convinced the UK will readily accept that. I take Norway seriously because I think that's where we will end up. But it isn't.an easy option.
After trying hard Brexit and Corbyn Norway may be where we end up but it could take over a decade to get there.
Norway decides its own foreign policy and is not in the customs union so also largely decides its own trade policy external to the EU but being a member of the single market it has to follow EU rules and directives on European trade policy inside the EU
Well, you are now a minority legally - you are a second class citizen, official.
There are many "Islamic" nations across the Mid East. By definition non-Muslims would be second class? No?
This, for me, is an important point. I think a secularist could oppose the linking of a state to a specific religion if they were opposed to it on a point of principle. But I think we all know that Jezza's lot don't have too much of a problem with other religions being linked to a state.
All nations which are linked to a particular religion is wrong. Saudi Arabia is the biggest offender - our friend ! Officially, Israel was not one until a few weeks back. Now it is also a state where only Jews have the right of self determination.
Funnily enough, you do not see too many posts on this topic from our anti-Jezziahs.
If the Jezziahs were opposed to all nations linked to a particular religion like Iran then it'd be consistent.
However Jezziah is quite happy to support Iran and take paid work on Press TV isn't he? It seems to be only one religion and only one nation that is objected to. There's a word for that.
It's not one nation and one religion. He's quite happy to say nasty things about the UK as well. That said so far as I am aware he has never criticised Christianity.
Corbyn had the guts to criticise Saudi Arabia and arms sales to them. No other politician had the ball£ to say it.
Because Saudi Arabia is an American ally. He opposes our alliances and arms sales to our allies. Try finding an enemy of America he has had the balls to criticise. Try the theocratic state of Iran for starters. Good luck!
Given the last Yougov had a Javid or Hunt led Tories on 29% ie 1997 style Corbyn Labour landslide and Boris Tories on 38% ie likely still largest party the answer is obvious, Boris would have to go to the members or the Tories face annihilation.
It was the polling showing Major beating Kinnock Labour that was key to his win, Javid and Hunt are now senior Cabinet ministers and must improve their polling fast
You're wrong on both points.
Polling actually showed Kinnok beating Major, because like Javid and Hunt, nobody knew who he was.
And, if we had an election with Tories on 29% with Javid and Labour on 40% with Corbyn, as per the Poll you cite, Labour could potentially still be 1 seat short of a majority (per the electoral calculus website), similar to the Tories being 20 short in 2010 with an 8pt vote lead. Even if Labour won a majority it almost certainly wouldn't be 2005 sized, let alone 1997.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
No it's only not bullshit if it happens, which it won't. Please name the EU's neighbours whose hauliers are prevented from entering.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
Turkey and Ukraine have deals in place which allow their drivers to drive. We’re discussing what would happen if there is no such deal.
I know this is really hard for you - a bit like reflecting on your own mortality - but do try to internalise what the words ‘no deal’ mean.
The EU recognises International Driving Permits for which the UK is signed up to and predates not just the EU, but the EEC too. To get one costs all of £5.50
Please tell me why you think the EU is going to stop recognising the IDP because of Brexit. Or are British hauliers too broke to spend £5.50?
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case, they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
The mobility framework is meaningless fluff. What did Shakespeare mean with "a rose by any other name" in your eyes?
You need a job offer on arrival under the mobility framework rather than after 3 months as now
The EU haven't agreed to it and it changes nothing. Don't forget that you can arrive as a tourist at any time and job hunt. Then once you have a job offer *bam* job done. Incidentally tourists can he here for 3 months.
The EU have not refuted it either unlike the UK collecting levies for the EU.
The mobility framework would be closer to the transition controls Blair could have imposed in 2004 on free movement from the new accession countries but did not
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
One of the inflection points during the EUref campaign was Cameron's announcement on his renegotiation, which was very poorly received even among the anoraks on here. If May tries to sell her sack of shit to her base, it's going to go down worse.
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
Afternoon from a gloriously sunny Lake District!
A Labour government I could live with. It’s the SWP/BNP-lite government masquerading under the Labour brand which is the problem.
Well, good afternoon from the dessicated plains formerly known as the Somerset Levels!
Whenever I hear prognostications of gloom, I'm always reminded of the story of the thief who undertakes to teach the King's horse to sing .
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
Turkey and Ukraine have deals in place which allow their drivers to drive. We’re discussing what would happen if there is no such deal.
I know this is really hard for you - a bit like reflecting on your own mortality - but do try to internalise what the words ‘no deal’ mean.
The UK will agree effective freedom of movement with the EU so hauliers don't have to rely on a limited number of member.states' transit permits as Turkish and Ukrainian lorry drivers do.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
No it's only not bullshit if it happens, which it won't. Please name the EU's neighbours whose hauliers are prevented from entering.
Given the last Yougov had a Javid or Hunt led Tories on 29% ie 1997 style Corbyn Labour landslide and Boris Tories on 38% ie likely still largest party the answer is obvious, Boris would have to go to the members or the Tories face annihilation.
It was the polling showing Major beating Kinnock Labour that was key to his win, Javid and Hunt are now senior Cabinet ministers and must improve their polling fast
You're wrong on both points.
Polling actually showed Kinnok beating Major, because like Javid and Hunt, nobody knew who he was.
And, if we had an election with Tories on 29% with Javid and Labour on 40% with Corbyn, as per the Poll you cite, Labour could potentially still be 1 seat short of a majority (per the electoral calculus website), similar to the Tories being 20 short in 2010 with an 8pt vote lead. Even if Labour won a majority it almost certainly wouldn't be 2005 sized, let alone 1997.
Your first point is wrong. The first head to head between a Major led Tories and a Kinnock led Labour in 1990 had a Major led Tories ahead as a Heseltine led Tories were while a Thatcher led Tories trailed Kinnock Labour. See Alan Clark's diaries or the Gallup archives.
An 11% Labour lead would almost match the 12% Labour lead in 1997. The Tories only lacked a majority in 2010 as the LDs got 23% and over 60 seats.
On UNS an 11% Labour lead implies a 6.5% swing to Labour and would see them gain 94 seats for a majority of about 68.
Tory MPs want to keep their seats, polls show Boris best able to do that.
BINO would relaunch Farage quicker than Lazarus
I really don't understand your religious belief in polls as the Biblical Truth. They're a snapshot and not a very good one at that, MPs understand that.
Hyufd has a lot of interesting information and thoughts but his worship of polls undermines a lot of his posts
Fine. Have a dull uncharismatic BINO Tory leader at the next general election, then see Corbyn win a large majority as Tory Leavers stay home or vote UKIP.
Then you might consider Boris, most Tory member including myself in the latest polls already are
Tory MPs want to keep their seats, polls show Boris best able to do that.
BINO would relaunch Farage quicker than Lazarus
I really don't understand your religious belief in polls as the Biblical Truth. They're a snapshot and not a very good one at that, MPs understand that.
Hyufd has a lot of interesting information and thoughts but his worship of polls undermines a lot of his posts
Fine. Have a dull uncharismatic BINO Tory leader at the next general election, then see Corbyn win a large majority as Tory Leavers stay home or vote UKIP.
Then you might consider Boris, most Tory member including myself in the latest polls already are
I will never consider Boris
Most Tory members would hence he now leads the ConHome next Tory leader member polling.
If you want to stay in a Boris led Tories is up to you
Tory MPs want to keep their seats, polls show Boris best able to do that.
BINO would relaunch Farage quicker than Lazarus
I really don't understand your religious belief in polls as the Biblical Truth. They're a snapshot and not a very good one at that, MPs understand that.
Hyufd has a lot of interesting information and thoughts but his worship of polls undermines a lot of his posts
Fine. Have a dull uncharismatic BINO Tory leader at the next general election, then see Corbyn win a large majority as Tory Leavers stay home or vote UKIP.
Then you might consider Boris, most Tory member including myself in the latest polls already are
I will never consider Boris
Most Tory members would hence he now leads the ConHome member polling.
If you want to stay in a Boris led Tories is up to you
Not only is ConHome not the same as the Tory membership but Boris isn't getting "most" of ConHome backing him. He is getting a plurality of support not a majority.
If you want to stay in a Hammond or whoever else is next led party then that would be up to you.
Tory MPs want to keep their seats, polls show Boris best able to do that.
BINO would relaunch Farage quicker than Lazarus
I really don't understand your religious belief in polls as the Biblical Truth. They're a snapshot and not a very good one at that, MPs understand that.
Hyufd has a lot of interesting information and thoughts but his worship of polls undermines a lot of his posts
Fine. Have a dull uncharismatic BINO Tory leader at the next general election, then see Corbyn win a large majority as Tory Leavers stay home or vote UKIP.
Then you might consider Boris, most Tory member including myself in the latest polls already are
I will never consider Boris
Most Tory members would hence he now leads the ConHome member polling.
If you want to stay in a Boris led Tories is up to you
I will not be leaving the party nor will the party have Boris. He would be a total disaster
Given the last Yougov had a Javid or Hunt led Tories on 29% ie 1997 style Corbyn Labour landslide and Boris Tories on 38% ie likely still largest party the answer is obvious, Boris would have to go to the members or the Tories face annihilation.
It was the polling showing Major beating Kinnock Labour that was key to his win, Javid and Hunt are now senior Cabinet ministers and must improve their polling fast
You're wrong on both points.
Polling actually showed Kinnok beating Major, because like Javid and Hunt, nobody knew who he was.
And, if we had an election with Tories on 29% with Javid and Labour on 40% with Corbyn, as per the Poll you cite, Labour could potentially still be 1 seat short of a majority (per the electoral calculus website), similar to the Tories being 20 short in 2010 with an 8pt vote lead. Even if Labour won a majority it almost certainly wouldn't be 2005 sized, let alone 1997.
This assumes current boundaries and a uniform swing, i.e. takes no account of Scottish peculiarities or the implementation of changes that will almost certainly clear Parliament if the Conservatives manage to hold on for a full term. Besides, the Tories haven't polled under 30% since 1832, so they ought to do better than that. That's the good news.
The bad news is that Labour can still get close enough to winning to get comfortably over the finishing line with the help of the SNP, in whose interest it is for the Far Left to do the maximum amount of damage possible to England. So this doesn't really help to protect us.
One of the main arguments in favour of Clean Brexit is that it keeps Ukip buried and therefore makes it substantially harder for Corbyn to get his hands on power.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
Turkey and Ukraine have deals in place which allow their drivers to drive. We’re discussing what would happen if there is no such deal.
I know this is really hard for you - a bit like reflecting on your own mortality - but do try to internalise what the words ‘no deal’ mean.
The UK will agree effective freedom of movement with the EU so hauliers don't have to rely on a limited number of member.states' transit permits as Turkish and Ukrainian lorry drivers do.
That would be a deal. Now try to address what no deal means.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
No it's only not bullshit if it happens, which it won't. Please name the EU's neighbours whose hauliers are prevented from entering.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
No it's only not bullshit if it happens, which it won't. Please name the EU's neighbours whose hauliers are prevented from entering.
Permits that ours could buy is not preventing anyone. I need a permit to do my job, guess what I got the permit. It cost more than £5.50 to get too.
What qualifies you to contradict the industry expert body?
The fact that you and he are unable to name a single nation the EU borders whose drivers aren't permitted to enter. Industry expert bodies are lobbyists not oracles.
Life may be made slightly more inconvenient if you don't get the deal you want but that isn't earth shattering news. So claim it will be an absolute disaster if you don't get what you want, then you get headlines.
If you don't get what you want that isn't almost always an actual disaster. People turn their efforts away from trying to prevent the change happening and towards adjusting to living with the new reality. Minimising just how inconvenient the new reality is.
I will not be leaving the party nor will the party have Boris. He would be a total disaster
Time to move on
You didn't want Brexit. You seem to have moved on (even if in name only).
I like many have been conflicted but Boris telling Airbus to FO ( and with it my son in laws job) finished him for me together with his appalling actions on the day he resigned.
I hope TM can get a deal but I am 100% opposed to a hard Brexit
Labour Trade Minister Peter Shore at a 1975 Oxford Union debate on the pro EEC campaign in that year's referendum. 'Fear you won't have any food. Fear of unemployment. Fear that we have somehow been so reduced as a country that we cannot cope as an independent nation. And a constant attempt to tell us that what we have is not worth a damn!'
I like many have been conflicted but Boris telling Airbus to FO ( and with it my son in laws job) finished him for me together with his appalling actions on the day he resigned.
I hope TM can get a deal but I am 100% opposed to a hard Brexit
Is that a cast iron guarantee that in the event of a Boris leadership and/or hard Brexit you won't be falling in line as seamlessly as you did with May (even when she was arguing for a fairly hard Brexit)?
You can lay Boris Johnson for next Conservative leader at the same price that you can back him for next Prime Minister. There must be some people expecting him to become a UKIP Prime Minister.
Life may be made slightly more inconvenient if you don't get the deal you want but that isn't earth shattering news. So claim it will be an absolute disaster if you don't get what you want, then you get headlines.
If you don't get what you want that isn't almost always an actual disaster. People turn their efforts away from trying to prevent the change happening and towards adjusting to living with the new reality. Minimising just how inconvenient the new reality is.
Yesterday, the 4th of August, is the fiftieth anniversary of the end of steam on mainline British Railways - the first day all scheduled services were operated by diesel or electric traction.
(There was a special steam service later in the month, but that doesn't really count).
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
No it's only not bullshit if it happens, which it won't. Please name the EU's neighbours whose hauliers are prevented from entering.
Permits that ours could buy is not preventing anyone. I need a permit to do my job, guess what I got the permit. It cost more than £5.50 to get too.
What qualifies you to contradict the industry expert body?
The fact that you and he are unable to name a single nation the EU borders whose drivers aren't permitted to enter. Industry expert bodies are lobbyists not oracles.
Because they have deals. Now try to address what no deal means.
Yesterday, the 4th of August, is the fiftieth anniversary of the end of steam on mainline British Railways - the first day all scheduled services were operated by diesel or electric traction.
(There was a special steam service later in the month, but that doesn't really count).
The end of an era.
And it is still going strong in so many preserved railways and the Flying Scotsman steam hauling an excursion into North Wales on the 22nd September
Well, you are now a minority legally - you are a second class citizen, official.
There are many "Islamic" nations across the Mid East. By definition non-Muslims would be second class? No?
This, for me, is an important point. I think a secularist could oppose the linking of a state to a specific religion if they were opposed to it on a point of principle. But I think we all know that Jezza's lot don't have too much of a problem with other religions being linked to a state.
All nations which are linked to a particular religion is wrong. Saudi Arabia is the biggest offender - our friend ! Officially, Israel was not one until a few weeks back. Now it is also a state where only Jews have the right of self determination.
Funnily enough, you do not see too many posts on this topic from our anti-Jezziahs.
If the Jezziahs were opposed to all nations linked to a particular religion like Iran then it'd be consistent.
However Jezziah is quite happy to support Iran and take paid work on Press TV isn't he? It seems to be only one religion and only one nation that is objected to. There's a word for that.
It's not one nation and one religion. He's quite happy to say nasty things about the UK as well. That said so far as I am aware he has never criticised Christianity.
Well yes, good point that the UK is actually not a secular nation. We are officially a Christian nation.
Surby seems weirdly silent about this topic
Britain is hardly a Christian nation. Do one gets beheaded for not going to Church. 70% of Christians do not practice the religion. This is a sensible, mainly atheist , nation
Who gets beheaded for not going to Church in Israel?
The UK is officially an Anglican nation. The Church of England is our official state religion. Bishops from the Church are given their own seats in Parliament to set laws.
Israel is less extreme in their religion and state mix than we are. Last I checked rabbis aren't given seats in the Knesset.
Your Arse, England may be Anglican but Scotland is most certainly not.
I see the more ardent Brexiteers are behaving in a very similar manner to the hardcore Corbynites and Trump supporters.
- There is no evidence that will convince them they are wrong. - There is no evidence that will convince them to rethink. - All sources of information which are negative to their chosen cause are biased or malevolently controlled. - Purity is all.
Funny if it wasn't so very damaging for the country and all our futures.
Given the last Yougov had a Javid or Hunt led Tories on 29% ie 1997 style Corbyn Labour landslide and Boris Tories on 38% ie likely still largest party the answer is obvious, Boris would have to go to the members or the Tories face annihilation.
It was the polling showing Major beating Kinnock Labour that was key to his win, Javid and Hunt are now senior Cabinet ministers and must improve their polling fast
There isn't a leadership vote happening NOW so all this polling you repeat ad infinitum and ad nauseam is meaningless.
IF the likes of Javid or Hunt were on the ballot their public profile would rise and IF their performance improved to be comparable to or better than Boris, what then?
Major's public profile soared once Thatcher was gone and he became the challenger to Heseltine. Couldn't the same happen to Javid or Hunt once May was gone?
What would YOU do than - if polls showed Javid performing better than Boris in a match with Labour, would you switch your support to Javid?
If Javid was beating Corbyn comfortably in the polls I may well support him but the fact is he is not and as Home Secretary just as with Hunt now Foreign Secretary the name recognition excuse is running short. Major was of course Chancellor when the first polls showed him beating Kinnock. So as long as Boris polls best against Corbyn I will back Boris.
Also Javid is as crap as Hunt , though hard to see any better in the Tories such that Corbyn could not be worse than any of this bunch of losers.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case, they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
The mobility framework is meaningless fluff. What did Shakespeare mean with "a rose by any other name" in your eyes?
You need a job offer on arrival under the mobility framework rather than after 3 months as now
The EU haven't agreed to it and it changes nothing. Don't forget that you can arrive as a tourist at any time and job hunt. Then once you have a job offer *bam* job done. Incidentally tourists can he here for 3 months.
It's no good getting rid of drivers if the vehicle gets confused and stops at a junction
A car that drove itself except for occasionally getting confused and stopping and beeping at you to help it out would totally transform a lot of people's commutes.
Well, you are now a minority legally - you are a second class citizen, official.
There are many "Islamic" nations across the Mid East. By definition non-Muslims would be second class? No?
This, for me, is an important point. I think a secularist could oppose the linking of a state to a specific religion if they were opposed to it on a point of principle. But I think we all know that Jezza's lot don't have too much of a problem with other religions being linked to a state.
All nations which are linked to a particular religion is wrong. Saudi Arabia is the biggest offender - our friend ! Officially, Israel was not one until a few weeks back. Now it is also a state where only Jews have the right of self determination.
Funnily enough, you do not see too many posts on this topic from our anti-Jezziahs.
If the Jezziahs were opposed to all nations linked to a particular religion like Iran then it'd be consistent.
However Jezziah is quite happy to support Iran and take paid work on Press TV isn't he? It seems to be only one religion and only one nation that is objected to. There's a word for that.
It's not one nation and one religion. He's quite happy to say nasty things about the UK as well. That said so far as I am aware he has never criticised Christianity.
Well yes, good point that the UK is actually not a secular nation. We are officially a Christian nation.
Surby seems weirdly silent about this topic
Britain is hardly a Christian nation. Do one gets beheaded for not going to Church. 70% of Christians do not practice the religion. This is a sensible, mainly atheist , nation
Who gets beheaded for not going to Church in Israel?
The UK is officially an Anglican nation. The Church of England is our official state religion. Bishops from the Church are given their own seats in Parliament to set laws.
Israel is less extreme in their religion and state mix than we are. Last I checked rabbis aren't given seats in the Knesset.
Your Arse, England may be Anglican but Scotland is most certainly not.
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Ummm: technical point. Isn't that to stop people from crossing from Turkey - as Turks require visas to enter Schengen? Which is rather different from the Irish border, where we have the Common Travel Area.
Well, you are now a minority legally - you are a second class citizen, official.
There are many "Islamic" nations across the Mid East. By definition non-Muslims would be second class? No?
This, for me, is an important point. I think a secularist could oppose the linking of a state to a specific religion if they were opposed to it on a point of principle. But I think we all know that Jezza's lot don't have too much of a problem with other religions being linked to a state.
All nations which are linked to a particular religion is wrong. Saudi Arabia is the biggest offender - our friend ! Officially, Israel was not one until a few weeks back. Now it is also a state where only Jews have the right of self determination.
Funnily enough, you do not see too many posts on this topic from our anti-Jezziahs.
If the Jezziahs were opposed to all nations linked to a particular religion like Iran then it'd be consistent.
However Jezziah is quite happy to support Iran and take paid work on Press TV isn't he? It seems to be only one religion and only one nation that is objected to. There's a word for that.
It's not one nation and one religion. He's quite happy to say nasty things about the UK as well. That said so far as I am aware he has never criticised Christianity.
Well yes, good point that the UK is actually not a secular nation. We are officially a Christian nation.
Surby seems weirdly silent about this topic
Britain is hardly a Christian nation. Do one gets beheaded for not going to Church. 70% of Christians do not practice the religion. This is a sensible, mainly atheist , nation
Who gets beheaded for not going to Church in Israel?
The UK is officially an Anglican nation. The Church of England is our official state religion. Bishops from the Church are given their own seats in Parliament to set laws.
Israel is less extreme in their religion and state mix than we are. Last I checked rabbis aren't given seats in the Knesset.
Your Arse, England may be Anglican but Scotland is most certainly not.
Scotland is 32% Church of Scotland, 16% Catholic, about 5% Episcopal Church, 37% non religious and 1% Muslim
Well, you are now a minority legally - you are a second class citizen, official.
There are many "Islamic" nations across the Mid East. By definition non-Muslims would be second class? No?
This, for me, is an important point. I think a secularist could oppose the linking of a state to a specific religion if they were opposed to it on a point of principle. But I think we all know that Jezza's lot don't have too much of a problem with other religions being linked to a state.
All nations which are linked to a particular religion is wrong. Saudi Arabia is the biggest offender - our friend ! Officially, Israel was not one until a few weeks back. Now it is also a state where only Jews have the right of self determination.
Funnily enough, you do not see too many posts on this topic from our anti-Jezziahs.
If the Jezziahs were opposed to all nations linked to a particular religion like Iran then it'd be consistent.
However Jezziah is quite happy to support Iran and take paid work on Press TV isn't he? It seems to be only one religion and only one nation that is objected to. There's a word for that.
It's not one nation and one religion. He's quite happy to say nasty things about the UK as well. That said so far as I am aware he has never criticised Christianity.
Well yes, good point that the UK is actually not a secular nation. We are officially a Christian nation.
Surby seems weirdly silent about this topic
Britain is hardly a Christian nation. Do one gets beheaded for not going to Church. 70% of Christians do not practice the religion. This is a sensible, mainly atheist , nation
Who gets beheaded for not going to Church in Israel?
The UK is officially an Anglican nation. The Church of England is our official state religion. Bishops from the Church are given their own seats in Parliament to set laws.
Israel is less extreme in their religion and state mix than we are. Last I checked rabbis aren't given seats in the Knesset.
Your Arse, England may be Anglican but Scotland is most certainly not.
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
Most Scottish domestic law is set by Holyrood not the Anglican Church
I take it you've forgotten that Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU? If that is what a Customs Union looks like then frankly it is no solution and no advantage.
Then again this is what the Customs Union border between the EU and Turkey looks like, is this your vision for the UK?
Full membership of the EU is the sensible option, since you ask. But that wasn't what we are discussing. The question is is whether it's baloney and bullshit, fear-mongering, and against all logic and reason to say British lorry drivers would prevented from entering the EU in a No Deal Brexit. The answer is no. British lorry drivers would be stopped.
No it is bullshit. They will not be stopped any more than Turkish, Ukrainian or any other nations drivers are. They may be slowed but slow isn't stop.
Full membership of the EU may have been sensible but then we had a vote and made our choice. These insane halfway house "solutions" lack the advantages of both membership and leaving. One or the other we need to do and we made our choice.
It's only not bullshit if there's a deal. Which there will be. On the EU's terms. Vassal State, here we come.
Are Switzerland and Norway vassal states? Even in the single market or tied to it in Switzerland's case, they do not follow 25% of EU law and even the Chequers Deal technically replaces free movement with a mobility framework
The mobility framework is meaningless fluff. What did Shakespeare mean with "a rose by any other name" in your eyes?
You need a job offer on arrival under the mobility framework rather than after 3 months as now
The EU haven't agreed to it and it changes nothing. Don't forget that you can arrive as a tourist at any time and job hunt. Then once you have a job offer *bam* job done. Incidentally tourists can he here for 3 months.
Anything will be better than the Tories
A hypothesis that may well be tested to its limits, but we shall see
Labour Trade Minister Peter Shore at a 1975 Oxford Union debate on the pro EEC campaign in that year's referendum. 'Fear you won't have any food. Fear of unemployment. Fear that we have somehow been so reduced as a country that we cannot cope as an independent nation. And a constant attempt to tell us that what we have is not worth a damn!'
I used to love watching Peter Shore use his glasses as a prop while he spoke. Now that party conferences are mere rallies, it is hard to find a frontbencher who can make a decent speech: they don't get the practice. It was common political tradecraft back in the 70s and doubtless for centuries before that. The contrast between Theresa May and 70s throwback Jeremy Corbyn was clear and crucial in the election.
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
A position that was endorsed by the voters of Scotland in 2014.
I can't remember the benefits of being legislated over by CoE god botherers at the forefront of Bettertogether I's campaign, but I'll certainly look forward to highlighting it when Bettertogether II comes around.
It's no good getting rid of drivers if the vehicle gets confused and stops at a junction
A car that drove itself except for occasionally getting confused and stopping and beeping at you to help it out would totally transform a lot of people's commutes.
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
A position that was endorsed by the voters of Scotland in 2014.
I can't remember the benefits of being legislated over by CoE god botherers at the forefront of Bettertogether I's campaign, but I'll certainly look forward to highlighting it when Bettertogether II comes around.
Are you saying Scots are too wee, too stupid to understand what they were voting for in 2014?
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
Brexit might be worth considering in theory, but the advocates seem to be utter liars.
Going through my own stages of grief, I’m simply on the stage where I realise that 99% of Brexiters are mendacious shits and not worth the emotional energy.
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
Brexit might be worth considering in theory, but the advocates seem to be utter liars.
Going through my own stages of grief, I’m simply on the stage where I realise that 99% of Brexiters are mendacious shits and not worth the emotional energy.
Well they're on the same side as the Russians, so I suppose it follows.
What's astonishing is how much people believe in a "label", above all substance. Economically, Donald Trump is the most left wing US President since Jimmy Carter - overseeing the biggest increases in public spending, protecting domestic industries via tariffs, and attempting to use executive fiat to protect the coal industry.
But he's a Republican. So these things are OK.
(For the record, Democrats are - I suspect - just as bad.)
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
My view is to give the Leavers enough rope.
If Brexit is a disaster just imagine the look on their faces when the voters decide to rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
I'm writing a thread, that'll I'll publish sometime this month, with enough quotes from prominent Leavers decrying Project Fear/saying No Deal would be awesome.
You thought Gordon Brown was hubristic when he said he had abolished boom and bust then you ain't seen nothing yet.
Well they're on the same side as the Russians, so I suppose it follows.
What's astonishing is how much people believe in a "label", above all substance. Economically, Donald Trump is the most left wing US President since Jimmy Carter - overseeing the biggest increases in public spending, protecting domestic industries via tariffs, and attempting to use executive fiat to protect the coal industry.
But he's a Republican. So these things are OK.
(For the record, Democrats are - I suspect - just as bad.)
If not sure that left wing and autarkical are synonyms. His behaviours are remarkably consistent with the pre-1939 Germany as described by Tooze in The Wages of Destruction.
Well they're on the same side as the Russians, so I suppose it follows.
What's astonishing is how much people believe in a "label", above all substance. Economically, Donald Trump is the most left wing US President since Jimmy Carter - overseeing the biggest increases in public spending, protecting domestic industries via tariffs, and attempting to use executive fiat to protect the coal industry.
But he's a Republican. So these things are OK.
(For the record, Democrats are - I suspect - just as bad.)
We are increasingly in culture wars of nationalists and protectionists v free trading liberals in most of the West, many Trump and Sanders voters are closer together than Hillary and Libertarian Party voters in the US
Labour Trade Minister Peter Shore at a 1975 Oxford Union debate on the pro EEC campaign in that year's referendum. 'Fear you won't have any food. Fear of unemployment. Fear that we have somehow been so reduced as a country that we cannot cope as an independent nation. And a constant attempt to tell us that what we have is not worth a damn!'
I used to love watching Peter Shore use his glasses as a prop while he spoke. Now that party conferences are mere rallies, it is hard to find a frontbencher who can make a decent speech: they don't get the practice. It was common political tradecraft back in the 70s and doubtless for centuries before that. The contrast between Theresa May and 70s throwback Jeremy Corbyn was clear and crucial in the election.
Indeed Shore, Powell, Benn, Foot all great orators of the 1970s
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
A position that was endorsed by the voters of Scotland in 2014.
I can't remember the benefits of being legislated over by CoE god botherers at the forefront of Bettertogether I's campaign, but I'll certainly look forward to highlighting it when Bettertogether II comes around.
Are you saying Scots are too wee, too stupid to understand what they were voting for in 2014?
Many thought they were voting to guarantee membership of the EU.
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
My view is to give the Leavers enough rope.
If Brexit is a disaster just imagine the look on their faces when the voters decide to rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
I'm writing a thread, that'll I'll publish sometime this month, with enough quotes from prominent Leavers decrying Project Fear/saying No Deal would be awesome.
You thought Gordon Brown was hubristic when he said he had abolished boom and bust then you ain't seen nothing yet.
70% oppose the Euro in polling, 18% more than voted Leave.
We will never join the Euro and probably nor will we ever rejoin the EU, at most we will rejoin EFTA and the EEA once immigration has been brought under control.
Plus if you think No Deal 9% unemployment would be bad see 10% Italian unemployment, 16% Spanish unemployment and 20% Greek unemployment in the Eurozone
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
I'll assume it to be a lone nutter, although let us not forget, only Labour can be trusted to unlock the potential of BAME people in the UK. Sorry Tories/LDs/UKIP/SNP/PC/Greens/etc - not only do you not have as much BAME support as Labour, you cannot even be trusted.
Im just fed up with the lying and hand waving real problems away. Combined with the enthusasim to emigrate now they’ve spread their shit all over the county. Cowards and liars all.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
My view is to give the Leavers enough rope.
If Brexit is a disaster just imagine the look on their faces when the voters decide to rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
I'm writing a thread, that'll I'll publish sometime this month, with enough quotes from prominent Leavers decrying Project Fear/saying No Deal would be awesome.
You thought Gordon Brown was hubristic when he said he had abolished boom and bust then you ain't seen nothing yet.
70% oppose the Euro in polling, 18% more than voted Leave.
We will never join the Euro and probably not will we ever rejoin the EU, at most we will rejoin EFTA and the EEA once immigration has been brought under control
The world must be a very easy place to live in when there are no shades of grey.
Tbf though, we lucky people have the official state religion of England setting our laws.
A position that was endorsed by the voters of Scotland in 2014.
I can't remember the benefits of being legislated over by CoE god botherers at the forefront of Bettertogether I's campaign, but I'll certainly look forward to highlighting it when Bettertogether II comes around.
Are you saying Scots are too wee, too stupid to understand what they were voting for in 2014?
Many thought they were voting to guarantee membership of the EU.
The 2017 result makes little sense then, unless even if that is what they thought, people reassess priorities in the light of new events.
Comments
Bottom line is, HMG have fucked up the negotiation, and while I don't see this as the End of Days, it's going to result in a Labour government in 2022. There are worse fates.
I know this is really hard for you - a bit like reflecting on your own mortality - but do try to internalise what the words ‘no deal’ mean.
The point being his poll rating rose at an absolutely astonishing rate as he came into the picture and the public discovered who he was.
The same could easily happen with someone like Hunt or Javid.
By 1997 the right was not united behind Major and almost a million 1992 Tories voted Referendum Party and UKIP and 2 million stayed home (more combined than the 2 million who switched to Labour or the LDs) and Blair won a landslide and Major got just 30%
The irony is if a BINO Tory leader loses the next general election the Tories will elect a hard Brexiteer anyway to succeed them meaning at least the next decade if not more will be under a Corbyn Labour or hard Brexit Tory government
A Labour government I could live with. It’s the SWP/BNP-lite government masquerading under the Labour brand which is the problem.
Norway decides its own foreign policy and is not in the customs union so also largely decides its own trade policy external to the EU but being a member of the single market it has to follow EU rules and directives on European trade policy inside the EU
https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2010-12/2526&grqid=WJpiCxJg&s=1&hl=en-ET&geid=1042
https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2005-06/1472&grqid=bBD6ziSL&s=1&hl=en-ET&geid=1042
Polling actually showed Kinnok beating Major, because like Javid and Hunt, nobody knew who he was.
And, if we had an election with Tories on 29% with Javid and Labour on 40% with Corbyn, as per the Poll you cite, Labour could potentially still be 1 seat short of a majority (per the electoral calculus website), similar to the Tories being 20 short in 2010 with an 8pt vote lead. Even if Labour won a majority it almost certainly wouldn't be 2005 sized, let alone 1997.
https://twitter.com/rhanews/status/1024230718870888448?s=21
Please tell me why you think the EU is going to stop recognising the IDP because of Brexit. Or are British hauliers too broke to spend £5.50?
The mobility framework would be closer to the transition controls Blair could have imposed in 2004 on free movement from the new accession countries but did not
Whenever I hear prognostications of gloom, I'm always reminded of the story of the thief who undertakes to teach the King's horse to sing
An 11% Labour lead would almost match the 12% Labour lead in 1997. The Tories only lacked a majority in 2010 as the LDs got 23% and over 60 seats.
On UNS an 11% Labour lead implies a 6.5% swing to Labour and would see them gain 94 seats for a majority of about 68.
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45077647
He isn't convincing anyone.
Still issuing a non-apology.
If you want to stay in a Boris led Tories is up to you
If you want to stay in a Hammond or whoever else is next led party then that would be up to you.
Time to move on
The bad news is that Labour can still get close enough to winning to get comfortably over the finishing line with the help of the SNP, in whose interest it is for the Far Left to do the maximum amount of damage possible to England. So this doesn't really help to protect us.
One of the main arguments in favour of Clean Brexit is that it keeps Ukip buried and therefore makes it substantially harder for Corbyn to get his hands on power.
If you don't get what you want that isn't almost always an actual disaster. People turn their efforts away from trying to prevent the change happening and towards adjusting to living with the new reality. Minimising just how inconvenient the new reality is.
I hope TM can get a deal but I am 100% opposed to a hard Brexit
Sound familiar?
https://mobile.twitter.com/IainDale/status/1026118134833524736
Yesterday, the 4th of August, is the fiftieth anniversary of the end of steam on mainline British Railways - the first day all scheduled services were operated by diesel or electric traction.
(There was a special steam service later in the month, but that doesn't really count).
The end of an era.
- There is no evidence that will convince them they are wrong.
- There is no evidence that will convince them to rethink.
- All sources of information which are negative to their chosen cause are biased or malevolently controlled.
- Purity is all.
Funny if it wasn't so very damaging for the country and all our futures.
So he would have to be investigated himself - and that isn't going to happen.
There is no way out for him.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Scotland
http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm
Good evening, everyone.
FWIW I’ve been involved in a WTO dispute. Regardless of right, any near resolution takes a very long time to arrive. The idea that people cannot game the WTO system is for credulous cretins.
The sort of people who think a 5% risk of huge trade disruption is worth taking on the basis of “it will be all right really”.
Going through my own stages of grief, I’m simply on the stage where I realise that 99% of Brexiters are mendacious shits and not worth the emotional energy.
But he's a Republican. So these things are OK.
(For the record, Democrats are - I suspect - just as bad.)
If Brexit is a disaster just imagine the look on their faces when the voters decide to rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
I'm writing a thread, that'll I'll publish sometime this month, with enough quotes from prominent Leavers decrying Project Fear/saying No Deal would be awesome.
You thought Gordon Brown was hubristic when he said he had abolished boom and bust then you ain't seen nothing yet.
We will never join the Euro and probably nor will we ever rejoin the EU, at most we will rejoin EFTA and the EEA once immigration has been brought under control.
Plus if you think No Deal 9% unemployment would be bad see 10% Italian unemployment, 16% Spanish unemployment and 20% Greek unemployment in the Eurozone
https://twitter.com/ZoeParamour/status/1026094774732943360
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/869571607060070401?lang=en
Edit - I am surprised that anyone genuinely says 'Go back to X' though, I assumed such talk was always coded.
They'd literally go coconuts over the Tories having the first BAME PM.