Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » BoJo is back heading the betting to be next PM

245

Comments

  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Pulpstar said:

    When you think about things, deep down - whatever your political persuasion (Unless it's very far left or right I'd suggest... you realise that May is probably the best person to get us through Brexit.
    If you were going to do it as a Gov't of national unity, having May and Brown working together probably wouldn't be the worst idea in the world on this.

    Boris isn't up to the job.

    +1
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Sandpit, oh, good, thought I might've missed something noteworthy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Scott_P said:
    Nobody ever knows why they are on a train to Siberia. The Party has decided Comrade.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,304

    Nigelb said:

    All down to Curran and Rashid now.
    I expect a stand of less than three figures....

    They'll be doing well to get the total to three figures!
    Easily the biggest stand of the innings.
    They'll probably be out shortly after resuming when the light improves, though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    All down to Curran and Rashid now.
    I expect a stand of less than three figures....

    They'll be doing well to get the total to three figures!
    Easily the biggest stand of the innings.
    They'll probably be out shortly after resuming when the light improves, though.
    Can’t we have three days more of bad light?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Looking forward to those Sunday papers!!!!

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    All the High Sparrow wants is for you to confess...
  • John_M said:

    I'd rather have Corbyn as PM than Boris. Boris would destroy the Tory reputation for competence (ragged as it is under May). The Tories need to shut up and go away, as a wise owl once said. A period in opposition would do them good.

    The only problem with that thesis is that the next Conservative PM after a Far Left Government would probably inherit a devastated economy, to which they would then have to administer a whole pharmacy full of nasty medicine to try to save it from death.

    I'm not sure what would happen after said unfortunate Tory cut pensions and the schools budget in half and privatised the healthcare system, but I doubt that it would involve their being returned at the following election with a healthy majority. Remember: the electorate never blame themselves for the negative consequences of their own shitty choices.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    If business taxes are slashed then individuals of working age are going to have to be told to pay more to compensate.

    As I understand it, most people who are opposed to corporation tax would rather shift over to taxing the dividends/other gains of shareholders. You're still ultimately taxing corporate profits, but at the point at which it is distributed rather than generated. The proposed benefit being that you have switched from taxing legal entities, which are legally "slippery" and highly mobile, to human beings, who are rather less so. So it isn't as simple as that £50bn pa "disappearing" if corporation tax were abolished tomorrow, since even without changing the way shareholders pay tax some of that additional untaxed profit is going to be fed back to shareholders and taxed that way, and in fact one would expect both to be changed.

    Obviously there are complexities that may require other adjustments too (firms that make profits in the UK but have foreign shareholders, and vice versa; the capacity of human shareholders to avoid taxes too) and I'm neither proposing that the change would be a good one nor that it is especially likely to happen. But it isn't as absurd as it might first sound, nor is it without proponents, nor is it unthinkable under any circumstances (e.g. PT's scenario, or a round of competitive tax cuts that leaves 0% as the next logical place to go).
    Exactly. You'd also be abolishing dividends tax and simply treating all dividends as income.

    Dividend tax is (or was) set up so that the effects of corporation tax + dividend tax was the same 9for an individual receiving the dividends) as straight income tax, except using some slightly arcane formulas.

    The trick, though, is ensuring profits don't simply get shifted out of the jurisdiction and paid elsewhere.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,304
    Sandpit said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Haven't missed anything, have I?

    Only this
    https://www.motorsportweek.com/joeblogsf1/id/00289
    In the excitement, I hadn't noticed that Nikki Lauda had a lung transplant reported yesterday;
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45053384
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    If business taxes are slashed then individuals of working age are going to have to be told to pay more to compensate.

    As I understand it, most people who are opposed to corporation tax would rather shift over to taxing the dividends/other gains of shareholders. You're still ultimately taxing corporate profits, but at the point at which it is distributed rather than generated. The proposed benefit being that you have switched from taxing legal entities, which are legally "slippery" and highly mobile, to human beings, who are rather less so. So it isn't as simple as that £50bn pa "disappearing" if corporation tax were abolished tomorrow, since even without changing the way shareholders pay tax some of that additional untaxed profit is going to be fed back to shareholders and taxed that way, and in fact one would expect both to be changed.

    Obviously there are complexities that may require other adjustments too (firms that make profits in the UK but have foreign shareholders, and vice versa; the capacity of human shareholders to avoid taxes too) and I'm neither proposing that the change would be a good one nor that it is especially likely to happen. But it isn't as absurd as it might first sound, nor is it without proponents, nor is it unthinkable under any circumstances (e.g. PT's scenario, or a round of competitive tax cuts that leaves 0% as the next logical place to go).
    Exactly. You'd also be abolishing dividends tax and simply treating all dividends as income.

    Dividend tax is (or was) set up so that the effects of corporation tax + dividend tax was the same 9for an individual receiving the dividends) as straight income tax, except using some slightly arcane formulas.

    The trick, though, is ensuring profits don't simply get shifted out of the jurisdiction and paid elsewhere.
    You would need some kind of withholding tax.

    Problem is that then is incentitising companies to 'hoard' profit, and not pay it out.
  • It would be quite something to have a judge rule on whether or not the leader of a major political party might plausibly be described as an antisemite. Probably wouldn't make a jot of difference to Corbyn's position in the long run though: the party membership are mostly just a bunch of North Korean cheerleaders and the MPs are too frightened for their careers to push the nuclear button and dump the party.

    I'd just feel sorry for whichever poor bastard was lumbered with hearing the case.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Day 672 and Corbyn still hasn’t closed down this story....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The administrative incompetence of the Labour party hierarchy is quite something.
  • Scott_P said:
    I don't see the problem, Jews don't traditionally do anything on Friday nights, right?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,881
    edited August 2018

    Scott_P said:
    Nobody ever knows why they are on a train to Siberia. The Party has decided Comrade.
    Three men are on a train to Siberia. The first asks the second why he has been imprisoned, who replies, "Because I criticized Karl Radek." The first man responds, "But I am here because I spoke out in favour of Radek!" They turn to the third man who has been sitting quietly, and ask him why he is going to jail. He answers, "I'm Karl Radek."
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Scott_P said:
    I don't see the problem, Jews don't traditionally do anything on Friday nights, right?
    I think that’s when they have their weekly meeting to further their plans for worldwide domination of the media... or something.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    Scott_P said:
    But they can view the clip on Saturday evening. The world will not stop.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    surby said:

    Scott_P said:
    But they can view the clip on Saturday evening. The world will not stop.
    And who is the primary audience for the video?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    RobD said:

    surby said:

    Scott_P said:
    But they can view the clip on Saturday evening. The world will not stop.
    And who is the primary audience for the video?
    Labour MPs and the Westminster Village media?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    surby said:

    Scott_P said:
    But they can view the clip on Saturday evening. The world will not stop.
    Almost as good as your Indian car gag. You really have dropped all pretence of not being a nasty little racist, haven't you?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2018
    This could be a cracking finish to the match at Edgbaston. I was lucky enough to be there yesterday.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Having just read them, they are classy pieces of work. Formby is so out of her depth on this one, it is just embarrassing.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    To bankrupt the Labour Party ? Her loyalty to the cause is obvious !
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    To appear in a new TV series Celebrity Litigation Island?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    I see England's No.8 now has double the runs of any other player.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    A YouTube video from Corbyn is just not going to cut the mustard.

    Adopted the full set of examples won't do it - because he is pretty clearly in breach of some of the missing ones and there won't be an investigation into him.

    Even presenting himself for conversion to Judaism is not going to do it.

    He has allowed a situation to develop where there is no resolution short of resignation.

    And I don't see that happening.

    I cannot think of any form of words short of 'I resign' that will bring this matter to a close. Indeed the video could well make it worse.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    The answer to that stupidly worded letter @£100 a minute is: if every apology was an admission of guilt, then imagine what the costs would be.

    An apology is what it says it is: an apology, period.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    They’re brilliant, the sort of thing every lawyer would love to be writing. Hope there’s an arrangement with Mrs Hodge about the fees though, there’s a lot of hours in there!

    I can actually see this ending up in court, Hodge is in her seventies and probably retiring soon anyway, but understandably wants to make a point about the racism in her party.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,304
    AndyJS said:

    This could be a cracking finish to the match at Edgbaston. I was lucky enough to be there yesterday.

    For all the selection problems, I think we might possibly have sorted out an all rounder to replace Stokes for the time being...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    After months/years of abuse, and the way she's been treated over this compared to the scores of antisemites who were let-off, ignored, or praised by senior Labour figures, then I don't blame her one jot.

    Take the bastards down.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    Making this an open process - not hidden away. Sunlight is the best disinfectant as they say. And Labour is in a very, very shadowy place right now.

    She is being asked to make an apology to deal with complaints that have not yet been revealed to her or her representatives. How, in any way at all, is that a fair and transparent way to proceed?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    They’re brilliant, the sort of thing every lawyer would love to be writing. Hope there’s an arrangement with Mrs Hodge about the fees though, there’s a lot of hours in there!

    I can actually see this ending up in court, Hodge is in her seventies and probably retiring soon anyway, but understandably wants to make a point about the racism in her party.
    In terms of the uptick in future earnings that a case like this would bring, they should be paying her.

    But, you know, lawyers. :P
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    They’re brilliant, the sort of thing every lawyer would love to be writing. Hope there’s an arrangement with Mrs Hodge about the fees though, there’s a lot of hours in there!

    I can actually see this ending up in court, Hodge is in her seventies and probably retiring soon anyway, but understandably wants to make a point about the racism in her party.
    Trust me, these aren't the letters that take the time to write. They practically write themselves.

    Margaret Hodge would be happy to see this go to court. I can't imagine the Labour party or Jeremy Corbyn would. It would be a circus.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    surby said:



    The answer to that stupidly worded letter @£100 a minute is: if every apology was an admission of guilt, then imagine what the costs would be.

    An apology is what it says it is: an apology, period.

    Why would you be sorry if you haven’t done anything wrong?
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    Force the Labour high command to make a grovelling apology to her (amounting to an admission that she was right) - OR drag Corbyn's reputation through the sewage farm in open court?

    I suppose that, unlike her many quiescent colleagues on the Labour backbenches, she is already past pensionable age and doesn't have a career to worry about, so she's more prepared to go down fighting. And I don't see how Labour's officials can easily dig themselves out of this particular hole if Hodge isn't prepared to play nice with them.

    For reasons previously articulated I don't think it'll make a jot of difference in the long run, but watching the nightly news reports of the remnants of Corbyn's reputation being shredded by clever barristers would provide some measure of grim satisfaction.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2018
    There hasn't been this much popcorn eaten since the Great UKIP Internecine War of 2017.
    https://twitter.com/make_trouble/status/1025385841810653184
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited August 2018

    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    They’re brilliant, the sort of thing every lawyer would love to be writing. Hope there’s an arrangement with Mrs Hodge about the fees though, there’s a lot of hours in there!

    I can actually see this ending up in court, Hodge is in her seventies and probably retiring soon anyway, but understandably wants to make a point about the racism in her party.
    Trust me, these aren't the letters that take the time to write. They practically write themselves.

    Margaret Hodge would be happy to see this go to court. I can't imagine the Labour party or Jeremy Corbyn would. It would be a circus.
    My wife once had your firm write a letter like that on her behalf. It was a masterpiece. I've always wanted to nick bits from it and re-use them, but have never had the opportunity to do so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,304
    surby said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    The answer to that stupidly worded letter @£100 a minute is: if every apology was an admission of guilt, then imagine what the costs would be.

    An apology is what it says it is: an apology, period.
    Not if one is demanded ... or else we proceed with disciplinary proceedings.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,221
    The Burnley Lara once again, undefeated.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Well, boo. For a moment there Curran's test average was above Roots.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    They’re brilliant, the sort of thing every lawyer would love to be writing. Hope there’s an arrangement with Mrs Hodge about the fees though, there’s a lot of hours in there!

    I can actually see this ending up in court, Hodge is in her seventies and probably retiring soon anyway, but understandably wants to make a point about the racism in her party.
    Trust me, these aren't the letters that take the time to write. They practically write themselves.

    Margaret Hodge would be happy to see this go to court. I can't imagine the Labour party or Jeremy Corbyn would. It would be a circus.
    Popcorn on standby.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    A YouTube video from Corbyn is just not going to cut the mustard.

    Adopted the full set of examples won't do it - because he is pretty clearly in breach of some of the missing ones and there won't be an investigation into him.

    Even presenting himself for conversion to Judaism is not going to do it.

    He has allowed a situation to develop where there is no resolution short of resignation.

    And I don't see that happening.

    I cannot think of any form of words short of 'I resign' that will bring this matter to a close. Indeed the video could well make it worse.

    Who cares ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,304
    Not sure that 193 is enough, but it ought now to be interesting.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    surby said:

    A YouTube video from Corbyn is just not going to cut the mustard.

    Adopted the full set of examples won't do it - because he is pretty clearly in breach of some of the missing ones and there won't be an investigation into him.

    Even presenting himself for conversion to Judaism is not going to do it.

    He has allowed a situation to develop where there is no resolution short of resignation.

    And I don't see that happening.

    I cannot think of any form of words short of 'I resign' that will bring this matter to a close. Indeed the video could well make it worse.

    Who cares ?
    Pretty much a whole minority group.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Anorak said:

    surby said:

    A YouTube video from Corbyn is just not going to cut the mustard.

    Adopted the full set of examples won't do it - because he is pretty clearly in breach of some of the missing ones and there won't be an investigation into him.

    Even presenting himself for conversion to Judaism is not going to do it.

    He has allowed a situation to develop where there is no resolution short of resignation.

    And I don't see that happening.

    I cannot think of any form of words short of 'I resign' that will bring this matter to a close. Indeed the video could well make it worse.

    Who cares ?
    Pretty much a whole minority group.
    Ah, but it's the *wrong* minority group!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    surby said:

    A YouTube video from Corbyn is just not going to cut the mustard.

    Adopted the full set of examples won't do it - because he is pretty clearly in breach of some of the missing ones and there won't be an investigation into him.

    Even presenting himself for conversion to Judaism is not going to do it.

    He has allowed a situation to develop where there is no resolution short of resignation.

    And I don't see that happening.

    I cannot think of any form of words short of 'I resign' that will bring this matter to a close. Indeed the video could well make it worse.

    Who cares ?
    Not Corbyn.
  • My favourite letters included the one that demanded an act of public oral satisfaction.

    I liked the letter that said ‘We are proceeding on the assumption that you understand the tort of negligence, please correct us it this assumption is incorrect. We don’t wish to have to go through this all over again when your client claims inadequate representation’
  • I suppose the only way Corbyn could have handled this any worse if he invited some Jewish groups round and served sausage rolls.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,221
    Nigelb said:

    Not sure that 193 is enough, but it ought now to be interesting.

    If England get Kohli early they'll probably win
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,869

    I suppose the only way Corbyn could have handled this any worse if he invited some Jewish groups round and served sausage rolls.

    Hmm, quite a few of the Jews that I know would have been very happy to attend in that case!
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    Nigelb said:

    AndyJS said:

    This could be a cracking finish to the match at Edgbaston. I was lucky enough to be there yesterday.

    For all the selection problems, I think we might possibly have sorted out an all rounder to replace Stokes for the time being...
    Is Stokes an all-rounder ? Does he bat well or does he bowl well ? Probably neither.

    No.6 in Tests, No.13 in ODIs and not even in the top 20 in T20s.

    Moeen in #7 in tests and #6 in ODIs.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    Force the Labour high command to make a grovelling apology to her (amounting to an admission that she was right) - OR drag Corbyn's reputation through the sewage farm in open court?
    No grovelling apology can be forced. The resolution will probably look something like:

    "We asked for your client to apologise. She has declined to do so, which candidly we think is very graceless. However, as we indicated a week ago we do not see this as a case that should clog up the disciplinary system so we are not going to pursue it further for now."

    Margaret Hodge will then wheel around the pitch with her shirt over her head and Labour party apparatchiki will gravely warn that this was not a vindication but an illustration of clemency.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    And of course, thanks to her share of the proceeds from a Liechtenstein foundation which sheltered holdings in Stemcor, Ms Hodge probably has the spare dosh to pay the legal bills.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    This is lawyer-on-lawyer violence, mind you; only solicitors say stuff like "I now deal with your numbered points" as in the Formby letter. It's just that Mr Stramash is not as good at it.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not sure that 193 is enough, but it ought now to be interesting.

    If England get Kohli early they'll probably win
    Assuming Kohli will get to bat.
  • MaxPB said:

    I suppose the only way Corbyn could have handled this any worse if he invited some Jewish groups round and served sausage rolls.

    Hmm, quite a few of the Jews that I know would have been very happy to attend in that case!
    Oy vey.

    As a good Muslim boy I’ve never eaten anything pig related.
  • Anorak said:

    surby said:

    A YouTube video from Corbyn is just not going to cut the mustard.

    Adopted the full set of examples won't do it - because he is pretty clearly in breach of some of the missing ones and there won't be an investigation into him.

    Even presenting himself for conversion to Judaism is not going to do it.

    He has allowed a situation to develop where there is no resolution short of resignation.

    And I don't see that happening.

    I cannot think of any form of words short of 'I resign' that will bring this matter to a close. Indeed the video could well make it worse.

    Who cares ?
    Pretty much a whole minority group.
    Ah, but it's the *wrong* minority group!
    Country & Western night at Labour HQ:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtNk1B9At8k
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2018

    MaxPB said:

    I suppose the only way Corbyn could have handled this any worse if he invited some Jewish groups round and served sausage rolls.

    Hmm, quite a few of the Jews that I know would have been very happy to attend in that case!
    Oy vey.

    As a good Muslim boy I’ve never eaten anything pig related.
    There has to be way to shoe-horn a gag from your love of Cameron and Cameron's (alleged) love of a pig. But can't quite formulate it...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778

    It would be quite something to have a judge rule on whether or not the leader of a major political party might plausibly be described as an antisemite. Probably wouldn't make a jot of difference to Corbyn's position in the long run though: the party membership are mostly just a bunch of North Korean cheerleaders and the MPs are too frightened for their careers to push the nuclear button and dump the party.

    I'd just feel sorry for whichever poor bastard was lumbered with hearing the case.
    Corbyn is mad enough to attempt his own defence, or perhaps use the services of Ken Livingston.

    The jury will have to sit through week's of detailed, academic papers about the precise definition of zionism in a historical context.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    And of course, thanks to her share of the proceeds from a Liechtenstein foundation which sheltered holdings in Stemcor, Ms Hodge probably has the spare dosh to pay the legal bills.

    Thank God, a Tory wrote it. If I did , the mob would have shouted "anti-semitic"
  • Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    I suppose the only way Corbyn could have handled this any worse if he invited some Jewish groups round and served sausage rolls.

    Hmm, quite a few of the Jews that I know would have been very happy to attend in that case!
    Oy vey.

    As a good Muslim boy I’ve never eaten anything pig related.
    There has to be way to shoe-horn a gag from your love of Cameron and Cameron's (alleged) love of a pig. But can't quite formulate it...
    It was unrequited love.

    I didn’t even get a knighthood from Dave.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2018

    It would be quite something to have a judge rule on whether or not the leader of a major political party might plausibly be described as an antisemite. Probably wouldn't make a jot of difference to Corbyn's position in the long run though: the party membership are mostly just a bunch of North Korean cheerleaders and the MPs are too frightened for their careers to push the nuclear button and dump the party.

    I'd just feel sorry for whichever poor bastard was lumbered with hearing the case.

    Corbyn is mad enough to attempt his own defence, or perhaps use the services of Ken Livingston.
    Ken: you know who else was sent to prison for challenging the powers that be...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,869

    MaxPB said:

    I suppose the only way Corbyn could have handled this any worse if he invited some Jewish groups round and served sausage rolls.

    Hmm, quite a few of the Jews that I know would have been very happy to attend in that case!
    Oy vey.

    As a good Muslim boy I’ve never eaten anything pig related.
    Definitely a shame as it's the most versatile meat! I've eaten a lot of beef in my life, just don't tell my mum. :D
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    Force the Labour high command to make a grovelling apology to her (amounting to an admission that she was right) - OR drag Corbyn's reputation through the sewage farm in open court?
    No grovelling apology can be forced. The resolution will probably look something like:

    "We asked for your client to apologise. She has declined to do so, which candidly we think is very graceless. However, as we indicated a week ago we do not see this as a case that should clog up the disciplinary system so we are not going to pursue it further for now."

    Margaret Hodge will then wheel around the pitch with her shirt over her head and Labour party apparatchiki will gravely warn that this was not a vindication but an illustration of clemency.
    If only the current Labour bigwigs had enough nous to do just that. McDonnell excepted.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Mishcon de Reya letters to Labour are a masterclass. It's Muhammad Ali vs. Mr Muscle.
    Favourite bit:

    "If an apology is not an admission of guilt or liability, what is the current status of recent 'apologies' provided by Peter Willsman... and Mr Corbyn in relation to hosting a meeting in which he shared a platform with individuals comparing Israelis to Nazis on Holocaust Remembrance Day?"

    Ouch.
    One of the important things to note about these letters is that they have been made public. It tells you a lot about what Margaret Hodge's aims are.
    Force the Labour high command to make a grovelling apology to her (amounting to an admission that she was right) - OR drag Corbyn's reputation through the sewage farm in open court?
    No grovelling apology can be forced. The resolution will probably look something like:

    "We asked for your client to apologise. She has declined to do so, which candidly we think is very graceless. However, as we indicated a week ago we do not see this as a case that should clog up the disciplinary system so we are not going to pursue it further for now."

    Margaret Hodge will then wheel around the pitch with her shirt over her head and Labour party apparatchiki will gravely warn that this was not a vindication but an illustration of clemency.
    Hopefully followed by a tour of the TV studios and several pieces in various newspapers, in which Hodge repeats the accusations and justifies them at considerable length.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Can't wait to see Jacob talk his way around the massive Brexit recession that's coming.

    He'll be too busy though, over in Dublin.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    Anorak said:

    surby said:

    A YouTube video from Corbyn is just not going to cut the mustard.

    Adopted the full set of examples won't do it - because he is pretty clearly in breach of some of the missing ones and there won't be an investigation into him.

    Even presenting himself for conversion to Judaism is not going to do it.

    He has allowed a situation to develop where there is no resolution short of resignation.

    And I don't see that happening.

    I cannot think of any form of words short of 'I resign' that will bring this matter to a close. Indeed the video could well make it worse.

    Who cares ?
    Pretty much a whole minority group.
    I can see Barnet will be lost. Oh, wait..........
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Can't wait to see Jacob talk his way around the massive Brexit recession that's coming.

    He'll be too busy though, over in Dublin.

    "It was all Theresa May's fault for not negotiating properly." - we've seen the excuse trailed a few times already.

    First rule of Brexiteering: Nothing is ever your fault. Ever.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    I mean are we pretending that all UK Jews are ultra-orthodox Jews who recuse themselves from internet/tv/radio/smartphones during the Shabbat?

    Because I don't think that's *quite* accurate.
  • RobD said:

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
    Yes, the Governor of the Bank of England shouldn’t talk about the economy, especially since no deal Brexit is something some Leavers want.
  • Anorak said:

    Can't wait to see Jacob talk his way around the massive Brexit recession that's coming.

    He'll be too busy though, over in Dublin.

    "It was all Theresa May's fault for not negotiating properly." - we've seen the excuse trailed a few times already.

    First rule of Brexiteering: Nothing is ever your fault. Ever.
    No, that’s the second rule.

    The first rule is Brexit is/will be easy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
    Yes, the Governor of the Bank of England shouldn’t talk about the economy, especially since no deal Brexit is something some Leavers want.
    He should spend more time doing than talking. Seeking to influence political decisons is not a good look from someone who is supposed to be impartial.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    edited August 2018
    RobD said:

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
    One expects civil servants, for that is what he is, to stay silent on live political issues.

    If the BoE have something to say then they can speak through the Chancellor.

    Which of course is exactly what’s happening, just the other way around. When did we last hear from Hammond about anything?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Anorak said:

    Can't wait to see Jacob talk his way around the massive Brexit recession that's coming.

    He'll be too busy though, over in Dublin.

    "It was all Theresa May's fault for not negotiating properly." - we've seen the excuse trailed a few times already.

    First rule of Brexiteering: Nothing is ever your fault. Ever.
    No, that’s the second rule.

    The first rule is Brexit is/will be easy.
    The zeroth rule is, of course, get the foreigners out.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Max, pigs are fantastic. Gammon, pork, bacon, ham, all from one animal.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
    One expects civil servants, for that is what he is, to stay silent on live political issues.

    If the BoE have something to say then they can speak through the Chancellor.

    Which of course is exactly what’s happening, just the other way around. When did we last hear from Hammond about anything?
    The BoE is no longer subservient to the Chancellor. The BoE is independent.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,869

    Can't wait to see Jacob talk his way around the massive Brexit recession that's coming.

    He'll be too busy though, over in Dublin.

    Since we have a free floating currency a massive recession is unlikely. I think a 2 or 3 quarters of low or no growth is the most likely outcome of no deal and then 1-2 years of below trend growth. The biggest downside risk to the UK economy is probably a recession in the EU. That really could result in a massive recession here. Unfortunately a no deal brexit may end up precipitating a recession in the EU as financial markets there will seize up and it could result in banks needing bailouts.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    RobD said:

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
    Yes, the Governor of the Bank of England shouldn’t talk about the economy, especially since no deal Brexit is something some Leavers want.
    Yes, the man whose entire job description is to maintain price stability within the United Kingdom, to support the economic policy and growth objectives of the government and for formulating monetary policy should definitely butt the fuck out on Brexit it's clearly not even *remotely* relevant.

    THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH EYE ROLL EMOJIS FOR THE CONTEMPT I FEEL FOR JACOB REES MOGG.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited August 2018

    Mr. Max, pigs are fantastic. Gammon, pork, bacon, ham, all from one animal.

    The other gammon is much less satisfying. Too tough and leathery.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    I mean are we pretending that all UK Jews are ultra-orthodox Jews who recuse themselves from internet/tv/radio/smartphones during the Shabbat?

    Because I don't think that's *quite* accurate.

    It's about 3% accurate.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,701
    edited August 2018
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
    Yes, the Governor of the Bank of England shouldn’t talk about the economy, especially since no deal Brexit is something some Leavers want.
    He should spend more time doing than talking. Seeking to influence political decisons is not a good look from someone who is supposed to be impartial.
    One of the statutory responsibilities of the Governor (and the Bank) is to ensure financial stability and warn when it is at risk.

    He’s doing his job.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    Attacking the British Museum is more the speciality of whackos on the Left.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    MaxPB said:

    Can't wait to see Jacob talk his way around the massive Brexit recession that's coming.

    He'll be too busy though, over in Dublin.

    Since we have a free floating currency a massive recession is unlikely. I think a 2 or 3 quarters of low or no growth is the most likely outcome of no deal and then 1-2 years of below trend growth. The biggest downside risk to the UK economy is probably a recession in the EU. That really could result in a massive recession here. Unfortunately a no deal brexit may end up precipitating a recession in the EU as financial markets there will seize up and it could result in banks needing bailouts.
    If there’s no deal the corporation tax rate will go through the floor.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,304
    surby said:

    Nigelb said:

    AndyJS said:

    This could be a cracking finish to the match at Edgbaston. I was lucky enough to be there yesterday.

    For all the selection problems, I think we might possibly have sorted out an all rounder to replace Stokes for the time being...
    Is Stokes an all-rounder ? Does he bat well or does he bowl well ? Probably neither.

    No.6 in Tests, No.13 in ODIs and not even in the top 20 in T20s.

    Moeen in #7 in tests and #6 in ODIs.
    He is in the team as one, so presumably his replacement ought to be one ?

    Moeen isn't particularly reliable, either - though he might do rather better with Curran's footmarks to bowl into.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I must say. Mark Carney has been very impressive. Definitely the best Governor of the BoE for many years.
  • RobD said:

    So now the ultra-Brexiteers think the Bank of England is a dud.

    Is there any UK institution left that hasn't been attacked by these whackos? Maybe the British Museum?

    https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1025375333757935616

    I have some sympathy for the argument that the Governor should stay out of politics.
    Yes, the Governor of the Bank of England shouldn’t talk about the economy, especially since no deal Brexit is something some Leavers want.
    Yes, the man whose entire job description is to maintain price stability within the United Kingdom, to support the economic policy and growth objectives of the government and for formulating monetary policy should definitely butt the fuck out on Brexit it's clearly not even *remotely* relevant.

    THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH EYE ROLL EMOJIS FOR THE CONTEMPT I FEEL FOR JACOB REES MOGG.
    JRM is not loyal to the UK, he takes his whip from Rome.
  • Can't wait to see Jacob talk his way around the massive Brexit recession that's coming.

    He'll be too busy though, over in Dublin.

    I wouldn't go counting chickens over the Brexit slump just yet.

    The actual Leave vote itself was meant to result in a recession along with (according to various authorities including the Treasury, the IMF and the Bank of England) half-a-million job losses, an emergency budget containing £30bn in tax rises and spending cuts, a stock market crash, and an 18% fall in house prices.

    Two years on, we are still awaiting the apocalypse. I don't know, perhaps the men pacing the streets with their 'End of the World is Nigh' sandwich boards have got the date right this time? But people are entitled to treat such claims with a certain degree of scepticism.
This discussion has been closed.