When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
Agree
There are decent people propping this cesspit up.
They need to walk away or take it back.
Not just sit there as the lunatics and racists take over the asylum.
Fifty partnership up before tea. England aren't on top yet, but if the Yorkshire pair do their usual thing, they will be before you know it. The first few overs after tea are likely to be crucial for India's chances.
From what I have seen of this pitch so far the tradition of laying the draw looks braver than normal. Wickets are hard to come by and I don't honestly see England's attack doing much better. Moem may prove an expensive omission.
What is the jc9 thing? I'm missing something there.
#JC9 hashtag for the "Momentum Approved" NEC slate. Includes Willsman.
Does anyone know when the NEC elections are? If the #JC9 walk it, as I would expect them to, then Corbyn will feel pretty secure.
Voting is underway now. I believe enough votes were in to pretty much gurantee Willsman a seat even if it stopped after the recording came out. The full 9 are pretty much nailed on.
And given the behaviour of the twitter mob (and MP Chris Williamson), he's still racking up votes now.
Is MaccyD on manoeuvres? Fair few comments lately that seem deliberately unhelpful.
I get the sense he's just got very, very frustrated with the needless prolonging of the issue due to the incompetence of JC's inner circle. He has much, much less popular appeal than JC amongst da youth so I can't really see him as the successor.
If Corbyn anoints a successor, do they automatically win?
Genuine question for discussion - let's hypothetically say Corbyn steps down "voluntarily" within the next 6 months.
Significant point for betting - I take it bets are paid out on the next permanent leader elected by Conference? As otherwise if Corbyn resigns Watson is the next leader.
Now that would set the the Centrist cat amongst the Marxist pigeons.
I still have some cash on Watson as next labour leader....pls make it so.
Clearly the Labour party needs a unity candidate. The obvious choice is Ed Miliband.
If we get a by-election in Peterborough and David Miliband or Ed Balls stand, my book on next Lab leader will suddenly look horrible.
There will undoubtedly be a by-election in a winnable Labour seat at some point this parliament. The chances of Miliband or Balls standing are minimal. Both have interests outside parliament that are more attractive and I doubt that either see a road back for their kind of Labour at the moment. If they want to be the King over the Water, they need to stay over the water until they can return and win i.e. after a general election defeat.
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
PB's armchair lawyers who assured us Tommy Robinson's strange, hasty, secret and punitive conviction was all above board are not looking so superior now. Tits.
I thought they were actual lawyers. Although 'Tommy' is a dangerous hoodlum, I'm actually not displeased by his acquittal; it demonstrates that the British judiciary is still robust and fair, and everyone is treated equally before it. This wouldn't be the case if Britain really was the Sharia-run failing society of warped American far-Right fantasies.
Actually, we do look superior because Robinson was convicted by the judge; he appealed - as he had a right to do - and a superior court decided that the judge got it wrong. He will therefore be tried again. That is exactly how the system is meant to work. It would have been better if the judge at first instance got it right but that is why we have an appeals system. And that appeal would have gone ahead regardless of how many people tweeted or demonstrated about it.
Those who thought that it was all a terrible conspiracy and that he should have been freed just because a lot of people were shouting about it in the street are the tits. That's not the rule of law. That's mob rule. Those who prefer mob rule by racists can piss off and join the Labour Party.
Actually, we do look superior because Robinson was convicted by the judge; he appealed - as he had a right to do - and a superior court decided that the judge got it wrong. He will therefore be tried again. That is exactly how the system is meant to work. It would have been better if the judge at first instance got it right but that is why we have an appeals system. And that appeal would have gone ahead regardless of how many people tweeted or demonstrated about it.
Those who thought that it was all a terrible conspiracy and that he should have been freed just because a lot of people were shouting about it in the street are the tits. That's not the rule of law. That's mob rule. Those who prefer mob rule by racists can piss off and join the Labour Party.
Well, no. Some of us (like me) simply pointed out that the judge had surely got it wrong, by acting so hastily.
And the Court of Appeal has now discovered that I, a thriller writer, was correct, and you, a lawyer - ? - were wrong, as was the judge. How odd.
In the words of the Appeal Court today:
"Such haste gave rise to a real risk that procedural safeguards would be overlooked, the nature of the contempt alleged would remain inadequately scrutinised and that points of significant mitigation would be missed. Those risks materialised.”"
Nonetheless I agree that this shows that British justice works for all. Slowly, but fairly. So all can take some comfort.
I am indeed a lawyer. Lawyers and judges do get it wrong. Sometimes the Court of Appeal gets it wrong. But the reasons the judge got it wrong were procedural ones not, as I understand it, on the substance of the case. All the court has said is that the matter needs to be tried in accordance with those procedures: that TR needs a fair trial in just the same way that the men on trial in the grooming case also need a fair trial, a fair trial which will be impeded if people like TR comment on the evidence in breach of UK contempt of court laws.
Those demonstrating in favour of TR on the streets were not arguing for procedural fairness when people are charged with contempt. They were arguing for someone to say what he wanted, regardless of the effect on the fairness of the trial of other men. But they did not care about those other men, because they were Muslim and so, obviously, guilty. Well they may be. But they too are innocent until proven guilty. And they too need a fair trial. As do the victims. The pro-TR demonstrators cared not a fig for such matters. Let's not now pretend that they did just because the appeal court has done its job.
What is the jc9 thing? I'm missing something there.
#JC9 hashtag for the "Momentum Approved" NEC slate. Includes Willsman.
Does anyone know when the NEC elections are? If the #JC9 walk it, as I would expect them to, then Corbyn will feel pretty secure.
Voting is underway now. I believe enough votes were in to pretty much gurantee Willsman a seat even if it stopped after the recording came out. The full 9 are pretty much nailed on.
And given the behaviour of the twitter mob (and MP Chris Williamson), he's still racking up votes now.
I fear that is going to kill any momentum (pun intended) building up on Corbyn. it is going to need a different approach.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
Thats most likely the case. However, in the past he wasn't leader. The few bits when he was leader (such as "you spoke to the IRA") were deflected successfully away ("so did the government").
His problem here is that anti-semitism is too big to be deflected away - Not only do we have a century affiliated Jewish section, we have a lot of Jewish friends and voters. And if we are willing to provide passive support for screaming scum demanding that Israel be swept into the sea then we fail our own basic tests of fairness and anti-racism. We literally stand for nothing, even ignoring that support for Israel (as part of a two-state solution) is a long standing Labour policy.
Others have identified the #jc9 - its the Momentum Slate designed to whip the Kali Ma into a frenzy. The JC9 are for Corbyn, his praetorian guard against the Blairites. You ARE for Corbyn aren't you? You HAVE to vote for the JC9 otherwise THEY win. Never mind that the man who founded the "We Back Jeremy Corbyn" Facebook group is running but not on the slate, or Ann Black a lifelong well to the left socialist. If you aren't the JC9 you are a Tory.
This is why despite condemnation from so many core Corbyn figureheads including a national Momentum organiser, they are desperately defending Willsman (hello Jezziah!!!) past the point of logic or sanity. Because having spun this JC9 bullshit it would be a massive defeat if he were suspended or removed.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
You may well be right. But don't you think that sharing a platform with a supporter of the KKK, a white supremacist neo-Nazi, might not be a step too far for some of his fans?
Edited: I don't think he's ever faced accusations of allying himself with such people before. It does make you wonder what else is out there, though.
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
Yes, Labour made a catastrophic error in not choosing him in 2010. He was the best of the bunch by a country mile, and by several country miles compared with the contenders in the next two contests.
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
Yes, Labour made a catastrophic error in not choosing him in 2010. He was the best of the bunch by a country mile, and by several country miles compared with the contenders in the next two contests.
That was a point I made at the time. A great guy who comes over well
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
Yes, Labour made a catastrophic error in not choosing him in 2010. He was the best of the bunch by a country mile, and by several country miles compared with the contenders in the next two contests.
Hopefully his documentaries will be as enjoyable as Portillo's
What the hell is wrong with some people. Nauseating. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/31/us/politics/alex-jones-defamation-suit-sandy-hook.html First two paras: AUSTIN, Tex. — In the five years since Noah Pozner was killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., death threats and online harassment have forced his parents, Veronique De La Rosa and Leonard Pozner, to relocate seven times. They now live in a high-security community hundreds of miles from where their 6-year-old is buried.
“I would love to go see my son’s grave and I don’t get to do that, but we made the right decision,” Ms. De La Rosa said in a recent interview. Each time they have moved, online fabulists stalking the family have published their whereabouts.
Fifty partnership up before tea. England aren't on top yet, but if the Yorkshire pair do their usual thing, they will be before you know it. The first few overs after tea are likely to be crucial for India's chances.
It is Yorkshire Day today. Which is fair enough given that Yorkshire are 98/0 against India while the Rest of England have only made 69/3.
It's not just screaming anti-semites he's happy to share a platform with but white supremacists and actual neo-Nazis. Surely that's a step too far even for some of his fans?
Sadly we're not there. There's still more than enough Corbynistas who having been provided with documentary evidence will still insist it's a smear - aided and abetted of course by the likes of Owen Jones, who will condemn anti-Semitism in one tweet and then follow it with a "but our opponents are smearing Jeremy with this" and try to claim this has nothing to do with the racist old Trot leading Labour who just happened to be at all these events with people he disagreed vehemently with but nodded along with. They've invested too much personal and professional credibility in him to worry about morality. It's a political death cult led by those who've gone too deep in selling the fraud to get out.
The problem then is that it puts the likes of McDonnell off a move as it will split their base. He knows what Corbyn's like and how bad it is - which is why, despite their ostensibly similar politics, there's not an endless trail of McDonnell meetings with Holocaust deniers, talks with neo-Nazi conspiracists and friendships with anti-Semitic loons. However, there's still a section of the hard left that's even prepared to defend Willsman, let alone Corbyn - whose personality cult and its success has united the hard left in a way that has stopped them fracturing as they have in the past. Knife Corbyn and the obvious risk for a McDonnell is that a lot of the Branch Jeremians view him as a traitor, and others decide they represent the one true faith.
Labour's fucked. Time for MPs to begin planning to resign the whip en masse and burn the village to save it.
If associating with the KKK is not a step too far, then Labour is truly fucked. But so are we, if such a party becomes the government.
Last night I listened to the Reflections series with Peter Hennessey, the episode where he interviews Jack Straw. Straw said that one of the things he was proudest of in politics was getting the Steven Lawrence inquiry underway.
That is the journey Labour has travelled. From a Home Secretary who took real steps to deal with anti-black racist violence to a leader happy to share a platform with a supporter of the anti-black racist KKK group. How Labour people unwilling to do anything about such a man can look themselves in the mirror I simply do not understand.
Is MaccyD on manoeuvres? Fair few comments lately that seem deliberately unhelpful.
I get the sense he's just got very, very frustrated with the needless prolonging of the issue due to the incompetence of JC's inner circle. He has much, much less popular appeal than JC amongst da youth so I can't really see him as the successor.
If Corbyn anoints a successor, do they automatically win?
Genuine question for discussion - let's hypothetically say Corbyn steps down "voluntarily" within the next 6 months.
Significant point for betting - I take it bets are paid out on the next permanent leader elected by Conference? As otherwise if Corbyn resigns Watson is the next leader.
Now that would set the the Centrist cat amongst the Marxist pigeons.
I still have some cash on Watson as next labour leader....pls make it so.
Clearly the Labour party needs a unity candidate. The obvious choice is Ed Miliband.
If we get a by-election in Peterborough and David Miliband or Ed Balls stand, my book on next Lab leader will suddenly look horrible.
There will undoubtedly be a by-election in a winnable Labour seat at some point this parliament. The chances of Miliband or Balls standing are minimal. Both have interests outside parliament that are more attractive and I doubt that either see a road back for their kind of Labour at the moment. If they want to be the King over the Water, they need to stay over the water until they can return and win i.e. after a general election defeat.
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
Ed Balls was still part of the odious set of spinners for Gordon Brown though. For whom nothing was off limts. It will need a good few TV series for that memory to fade.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
You may well be right. But don't you think that sharing a platform with a supporter of the KKK, a white supremacist neo-Nazi, might not be a step too far for some of his fans?
Edited: I don't think he's ever faced accusations of allying himself with such people before. It does make you wonder what else is out there, though.
Presumably, they consider that the enemy of the Zionazi enemy is their friend.
Is MaccyD on manoeuvres? Fair few comments lately that seem deliberately unhelpful.
I get the sense he's just got very, very frustrated with the needless prolonging of the issue due to the incompetence of JC's inner circle. He has much, much less popular appeal than JC amongst da youth so I can't really see him as the successor.
If Corbyn anoints a successor, do they automatically win?
Genuine question for discussion - let's hypothetically say Corbyn steps down "voluntarily" within the next 6 months.
Significant point for betting - I take it bets are paid out on the next permanent leader elected by Conference? As otherwise if Corbyn resigns Watson is the next leader.
Now that would set the the Centrist cat amongst the Marxist pigeons.
I still have some cash on Watson as next labour leader....pls make it so.
Clearly the Labour party needs a unity candidate. The obvious choice is Ed Miliband.
If we get a by-election in Peterborough and David Miliband or Ed Balls stand, my book on next Lab leader will suddenly look horrible.
It always amazes me how little attention Ed Balls gets when people talk about a 'Moderate King Over the Water' or the potential leader of the mythical Centrist Party that will save us all. He's now a consumate media performer, ferociously clever and knows his way around the more unsavoury back alleys of politics. Plus of course he didn't flounce, rather had his sabbatical forced on him and seems to have used it to improve as a person.
He's probably the only modern political figure who could pull off the Dennis Healey trick of being able play the piano and chat on a light-ent show and deliver a forensic, economically meaningful speech. Of course he'd face the same obstacles anyone faces, but a far better bet to do something than the others from his generation cited as possible comeback kids and D Miliband in particular.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
You may well be right. But don't you think that sharing a platform with a supporter of the KKK, a white supremacist neo-Nazi, might not be a step too far for some of his fans?
Edited: I don't think he's ever faced accusations of allying himself with such people before. It does make you wonder what else is out there, though.
But as RochdalePioneers says, the true believers (Hi, Jezziah) will spin themselves around in an attempt to excuse him; it isn't anti-Semitism, he was misunderstood; it's all a Tory smear campaign. That's the message they're selling: it's fake news.
Its easy to see the effect of that latter point: if you're an ordinary Labour member, supporter or even voter, you've been told for decades that the Tories are evil and your side is on the side of the angels. So when people say it's all a smear against the angels, you might well believe them. And even if you don't, the Tories are worse.
And they won't fight against Corbyn, because even if they think he's a sh*t, he's their sh*t.
And hence a party that has brought much good to the country will be destroyed if good people are not willing to rid it of its infection.
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
Yes, Labour made a catastrophic error in not choosing him in 2010. He was the best of the bunch by a country mile, and by several country miles compared with the contenders in the next two contests.
Always disliked him, but always respected him. Looking back, i think most poeple would accept Balls or Milliband as PM in a way which they wouldn't Corbyn or what labour has now been.
It's a national disaster what has happened to both Tories and Labour in the last few years as a the centre is hollowed out.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
You may well be right. But don't you think that sharing a platform with a supporter of the KKK, a white supremacist neo-Nazi, might not be a step too far for some of his fans?
Edited: I don't think he's ever faced accusations of allying himself with such people before. It does make you wonder what else is out there, though.
Presumably, they consider that the enemy of the Zionazi enemy is their friend.
Presumably. It is easier though to handwave away the anti-semitism of a Palestinian than it is to explain why you are allying yourself with a white supremacist who hates blacks (and very likely doesn't think much of Muslims either). That risks pissing off quite a lot of your voter base.
BoJo and JRM were rightly criticised on here the other day for meeting up with Steve Bannon. Now they have an answer: "At least we don't consort with the KKK."
Fifty partnership up before tea. England aren't on top yet, but if the Yorkshire pair do their usual thing, they will be before you know it. The first few overs after tea are likely to be crucial for India's chances.
From what I have seen of this pitch so far the tradition of laying the draw looks braver than normal. Wickets are hard to come by and I don't honestly see England's attack doing much better. Moem may prove an expensive omission.
Bit early to conclude that. If England can pile up the runs (no certainty, of course), India will likely prove fragile.
Is MaccyD on manoeuvres? Fair few comments lately that seem deliberately unhelpful.
I get the sense he's just got very, very frustrated with the needless prolonging of the issue due to the incompetence of JC's inner circle. He has much, much less popular appeal than JC amongst da youth so I can't really see him as the successor.
If Corbyn anoints a successor, do they automatically win?
Genuine question for discussion - let's hypothetically say Corbyn steps down "voluntarily" within the next 6 months.
Significant point for betting - I take it bets are paid out on the next permanent leader elected by Conference? As otherwise if Corbyn resigns Watson is the next leader.
Now that would set the the Centrist cat amongst the Marxist pigeons.
I still have some cash on Watson as next labour leader....pls make it so.
Clearly the Labour party needs a unity candidate. The obvious choice is Ed Miliband.
If we get a by-election in Peterborough and David Miliband or Ed Balls stand, my book on next Lab leader will suddenly look horrible.
There will undoubtedly be a by-election in a winnable Labour seat at some point this parliament. The chances of Miliband or Balls standing are minimal. Both have interests outside parliament that are more attractive and I doubt that either see a road back for their kind of Labour at the moment. If they want to be the King over the Water, they need to stay over the water until they can return and win i.e. after a general election defeat.
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
Ed Balls was still part of the odious set of spinners for Gordon Brown though. For whom nothing was off limts. It will need a good few TV series for that memory to fade.
You're never going to support Labour or like Balls whatever TV he does. However, I suspect he's viewed much more positively by the population at large than any current politicians, mainly tbf on the back of his Strictly and other TV performances - he comes across as a genuine guy.
His problem, of course, is that he's not in parliament.
It never ceases to amaze me how many pb posters clutch at their pearls with horror at the thought of a Corbyn government at the same time that the current government is implementing the most extreme and destructive policy of any government in living memory in as cackhanded a manner as possible.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
Thats most likely the case. However, in the past he wasn't leader. The few bits when he was leader (such as "you spoke to the IRA") were deflected successfully away ("so did the government").
His problem here is that anti-semitism is too big to be deflected away - Not only do we have a century affiliated Jewish section, we have a lot of Jewish friends and voters. And if we are willing to provide passive support for screaming scum demanding that Israel be swept into the sea then we fail our own basic tests of fairness and anti-racism. We literally stand for nothing, even ignoring that support for Israel (as part of a two-state solution) is a long standing Labour policy.
Others have identified the #jc9 - its the Momentum Slate designed to whip the Kali Ma into a frenzy. The JC9 are for Corbyn, his praetorian guard against the Blairites. You ARE for Corbyn aren't you? You HAVE to vote for the JC9 otherwise THEY win. Never mind that the man who founded the "We Back Jeremy Corbyn" Facebook group is running but not on the slate, or Ann Black a lifelong well to the left socialist. If you aren't the JC9 you are a Tory.
This is why despite condemnation from so many core Corbyn figureheads including a national Momentum organiser, they are desperately defending Willsman (hello Jezziah!!!) past the point of logic or sanity. Because having spun this JC9 bullshit it would be a massive defeat if he were suspended or removed.
I believe that the general public will notice this at some point and then Labour will be f***ed. The public are not stupid and the only thing that trumps incompetence in who-not-to-vote-for is evil.
Is MaccyD on manoeuvres? Fair few comments lately that seem deliberately unhelpful.
I get the sense he's just got very, very frustrated with the needless prolonging of the issue due to the incompetence of JC's inner circle. He has much, much less popular appeal than JC amongst da youth so I can't really see him as the successor.
If Corbyn anoints a successor, do they automatically win?
Genuine question for discussion - let's hypothetically say Corbyn steps down "voluntarily" within the next 6 months.
Significant point for betting - I take it bets are paid out on the next permanent leader elected by Conference? As otherwise if Corbyn resigns Watson is the next leader.
Now that would set the the Centrist cat amongst the Marxist pigeons.
I still have some cash on Watson as next labour leader....pls make it so.
Clearly the Labour party needs a unity candidate. The obvious choice is Ed Miliband.
If we get a by-election in Peterborough and David Miliband or Ed Balls stand, my book on next Lab leader will suddenly look horrible.
It always amazes me how little attention Ed Balls gets when people talk about a 'Moderate King Over the Water' or the potential leader of the mythical Centrist Party that will save us all. He's now a consumate media performer, ferociously clever and knows his way around the more unsavoury back alleys of politics. Plus of course he didn't flounce, rather had his sabbatical forced on him and seems to have used it to improve as a person.
He's probably the only modern political figure who could pull off the Dennis Healey trick of being able play the piano and chat on a light-ent show and deliver a forensic, economically meaningful speech. Of course he'd face the same obstacles anyone faces, but a far better bet to do something than the others from his generation cited as possible comeback kids and D Miliband in particular.
Why would he do it? He's now in Portillo's situation: he's an intelligent man who tried for the top spot and failed. He's done politics, and there are more profitable things to be done - financially, emotionally and intellectually. Politics is very constraining.
I can't see why he would go back. With Yvette still in the Commons, he can still meet up with his old friends and have influence from the outside, if he wants it.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
You may well be right. But don't you think that sharing a platform with a supporter of the KKK, a white supremacist neo-Nazi, might not be a step too far for some of his fans?
Edited: I don't think he's ever faced accusations of allying himself with such people before. It does make you wonder what else is out there, though.
But as RochdalePioneers says, the true believers (Hi, Jezziah) will spin themselves around in an attempt to excuse him; it isn't anti-Semitism, he was misunderstood; it's all a Tory smear campaign. That's the message they're selling: it's fake news.
Its easy to see the effect of that latter point: if you're an ordinary Labour member, supporter or even voter, you've been told for decades that the Tories are evil and your side is on the side of the angels. So when people say it's all a smear against the angels, you might well believe them. And even if you don't, the Tories are worse.
And they won't fight against Corbyn, because even if they think he's a sh*t, he's their sh*t.
And hence a party that has brought much good to the country will be destroyed if good people are not willing to rid it of its infection.
"Will be destroyed"? It is being destroyed before our eyes.
It never ceases to amaze me how many pb posters clutch at their pearls with horror at the thought of a Corbyn government at the same time that the current government is implementing the most extreme and destructive policy of any government in living memory in as cackhanded a manner as possible.
It never ceases to amaze me how many pb posters clutch at their pearls with horror at the thought of a Corbyn government at the same time that the current government is implementing the most extreme and destructive policy of any government in living memory in as cackhanded a manner as possible.
Corbyn would not reverse the current policy, and would add some more of his own
It never ceases to amaze me how many pb posters clutch at their pearls with horror at the thought of a Corbyn government at the same time that the current government is implementing the most extreme and destructive policy of any government in living memory in as cackhanded a manner as possible.
The answer to that (speaking as a right wing PBer) is that while this government is incompetent, a Corbyn-led government would be malevolent.
It never ceases to amaze me how many pb posters clutch at their pearls with horror at the thought of a Corbyn government at the same time that the current government is implementing the most extreme and destructive policy of any government in living memory in as cackhanded a manner as possible.
TBF, Alastair, the prospect of having to suffer one followed by the other is not exactly appealing. And I don't possess any pearls.
Balls comes across very well in the Trump documentary. He'd have much more potential as a leader than Miliband.
Yes, Labour made a catastrophic error in not choosing him in 2010. He was the best of the bunch by a country mile, and by several country miles compared with the contenders in the next two contests.
That was a point I made at the time. A great guy who comes over well
I really enjoyed his book Speaking Out. Humorous, self-deprecating, clever, articulate. Labour have really missed him.
When it comes to Corbyn, the track record is such that he will continue. He's faced these sort of accusations before, and the faithful have excused, ignored or applauded his position, and the rest of Labour have remained largely supine.
Whilst the latest stories are hideous and show what an appalling mindset he and his supporters have, I fail to see why this time it will be different.
Sadly.
You may well be right. But don't you think that sharing a platform with a supporter of the KKK, a white supremacist neo-Nazi, might not be a step too far for some of his fans?
Edited: I don't think he's ever faced accusations of allying himself with such people before. It does make you wonder what else is out there, though.
But as RochdalePioneers says, the true believers (Hi, Jezziah) will spin themselves around in an attempt to excuse him; it isn't anti-Semitism, he was misunderstood; it's all a Tory smear campaign. That's the message they're selling: it's fake news.
Its easy to see the effect of that latter point: if you're an ordinary Labour member, supporter or even voter, you've been told for decades that the Tories are evil and your side is on the side of the angels. So when people say it's all a smear against the angels, you might well believe them. And even if you don't, the Tories are worse.
And they won't fight against Corbyn, because even if they think he's a sh*t, he's their sh*t.
And hence a party that has brought much good to the country will be destroyed if good people are not willing to rid it of its infection.
"Will be destroyed"? It is being destroyed before our eyes.
I still think we're odds-on for the next government to be led by a Corbynite. It's just that it'll be the Corbyn party, not the Labour party.
In fact, the Labour party is Eddie Brock to Corbyn's Venom ...
It never ceases to amaze me how many pb posters clutch at their pearls with horror at the thought of a Corbyn government at the same time that the current government is implementing the most extreme and destructive policy of any government in living memory in as cackhanded a manner as possible.
Wow, yet more journalists confusing border checks of people with “Freedom of Movement”, which specifically in EU terminology means entitlement to National Insurance numbers and state benefits, nothing whatsoever to do with borders.
Oh, and of course there’s precisely no chance of the UK doing anything about the NI goods border, that’s entirely Varakdar’s and Drunker’s problem if there’s no deal.
The UK government will have its hands full ensuring there is adequate food to worry about things like National Insurance numbers.
it's just any old shite isnt it ?
Germany is facing a disatrous harvest this year as are many other EU country.
But not because of a man-made calamity called Brexit.
We get no rain the same as everyone else, round me the shops are still full. The impact of the sever summer will hit us long before Brexit, when spuds double in price will you be telling me we havent left yet ?
In any event now that China has stopped buying US farm goods, there lots more to go around.
PB's armchair lawyers who assured us Tommy Robinson's strange, hasty, secret and punitive conviction was all above board are not looking so superior now. Tits.
I thought they were actual lawyers. Although 'Tommy' is a dangerous hoodlum, I'm actually not displeased by his acquittal; it demonstrates that the British judiciary is still robust and fair, and everyone is treated equally before it. This wouldn't be the case if Britain really was the Sharia-run failing society of warped American far-Right fantasies.
Actually, we do look superior because Robinson was convicted by the judge; he appealed - as he had a right to do - and a superior court decided that the judge got it wrong. He will therefore be tried again. That is exactly how the system is meant to work. It would have been better if the judge at first instance got it right but that is why we have an appeals system. And that appeal would have gone ahead regardless of how many people tweeted or demonstrated about it.
Those who thought that it was all a terrible conspiracy and that he should have been freed just because a lot of people were shouting about it in the street are the tits. That's not the rule of law. That's mob rule. Those who prefer mob rule by racists can piss off and join the Labour Party.
Well, no. Some of us (like me) simply pointed out that the judge had surely got it wrong, by acting so hastily.
And the Court of Appeal has now discovered that I, a thriller writer, was correct, and you, a lawyer - ? - were wrong, as was the judge. How odd.
In the words of the Appeal Court today:
"Such haste gave rise to a real risk that procedural safeguards would be overlooked, the nature of the contempt alleged would remain inadequately scrutinised and that points of significant mitigation would be missed. Those risks materialised.”"
Nonetheless I agree that this shows that British justice works for all. Slowly, but fairly. So all can take some comfort.
Exactly, they thought they could get away with a stitch up.
Is MaccyD on manoeuvres? Fair few comments lately that seem deliberately unhelpful.
I get the sense he's just got very, very frustrated with the needless prolonging of the issue due to the incompetence of JC's inner circle. He has much, much less popular appeal than JC amongst da youth so I can't really see him as the successor.
If Corbyn anoints a successor, do they automatically win?
Genuine question for discussion - let's hypothetically say Corbyn steps down "voluntarily" within the next 6 months.
Significant point for betting - I take it bets are paid out on the next permanent leader elected by Conference? As otherwise if Corbyn resigns Watson is the next leader.
Now that would set the the Centrist cat amongst the Marxist pigeons.
I still have some cash on Watson as next labour leader....pls make it so.
Clearly the Labour party needs a unity candidate. The obvious choice is Ed Miliband.
If we get a by-election in Peterborough and David Miliband or Ed Balls stand, my book on next Lab leader will suddenly look horrible.
Of course he'd face the same obstacles anyone faces, but a far better bet to do something than the others from his generation cited as possible comeback kids and D Miliband in particular.
I can't see why he would go back. With Yvette still in the Commons, he can still meet up with his old friends and have influence from the outside, if he wants it.
And would the wider membership welcome him?
Obviously you're right about that. I was more pointing out that when people scout around for a theoretical liberal-left saviour they tend to overlook Balls, despite him being a far superior option, if you could convince him, to those touted.
The only reason I think he'd come back is that reading his book there's a strong hint of regret about unfinished business and a sense of frustration that his shot at the big time as a minister, leadership candidate, and shadow chancellor came before he was ready - as he was so tied up in the world of Gordon Brown he hadn't matured, built a hinterland and his own sense of what he wanted to achieve personally, while struggling with his stammer made him an awkward performer. He was quite hurt I think about being passed over as the 'anti-Blairite' candidate in 2010 for Ed Miliband because of his image as a bit of a heartless, awkward backroom boy.
Comments
There are decent people propping this cesspit up.
They need to walk away or take it back.
Not just sit there as the lunatics and racists take over the asylum.
And given the behaviour of the twitter mob (and MP Chris Williamson), he's still racking up votes now.
Those demonstrating in favour of TR on the streets were not arguing for procedural fairness when people are charged with contempt. They were arguing for someone to say what he wanted, regardless of the effect on the fairness of the trial of other men. But they did not care about those other men, because they were Muslim and so, obviously, guilty. Well they may be. But they too are innocent until proven guilty. And they too need a fair trial. As do the victims. The pro-TR demonstrators cared not a fig for such matters. Let's not now pretend that they did just because the appeal court has done its job.
His problem here is that anti-semitism is too big to be deflected away - Not only do we have a century affiliated Jewish section, we have a lot of Jewish friends and voters. And if we are willing to provide passive support for screaming scum demanding that Israel be swept into the sea then we fail our own basic tests of fairness and anti-racism. We literally stand for nothing, even ignoring that support for Israel (as part of a two-state solution) is a long standing Labour policy.
Others have identified the #jc9 - its the Momentum Slate designed to whip the Kali Ma into a frenzy. The JC9 are for Corbyn, his praetorian guard against the Blairites. You ARE for Corbyn aren't you? You HAVE to vote for the JC9 otherwise THEY win. Never mind that the man who founded the "We Back Jeremy Corbyn" Facebook group is running but not on the slate, or Ann Black a lifelong well to the left socialist. If you aren't the JC9 you are a Tory.
This is why despite condemnation from so many core Corbyn figureheads including a national Momentum organiser, they are desperately defending Willsman (hello Jezziah!!!) past the point of logic or sanity. Because having spun this JC9 bullshit it would be a massive defeat if he were suspended or removed.
Edited: I don't think he's ever faced accusations of allying himself with such people before. It does make you wonder what else is out there, though.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/31/us/politics/alex-jones-defamation-suit-sandy-hook.html
First two paras:
AUSTIN, Tex. — In the five years since Noah Pozner was killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., death threats and online harassment have forced his parents, Veronique De La Rosa and Leonard Pozner, to relocate seven times. They now live in a high-security community hundreds of miles from where their 6-year-old is buried.
“I would love to go see my son’s grave and I don’t get to do that, but we made the right decision,” Ms. De La Rosa said in a recent interview. Each time they have moved, online fabulists stalking the family have published their whereabouts.
Last night I listened to the Reflections series with Peter Hennessey, the episode where he interviews Jack Straw. Straw said that one of the things he was proudest of in politics was getting the Steven Lawrence inquiry underway.
That is the journey Labour has travelled. From a Home Secretary who took real steps to deal with anti-black racist violence to a leader happy to share a platform with a supporter of the anti-black racist KKK group. How Labour people unwilling to do anything about such a man can look themselves in the mirror I simply do not understand.
Away from cricket and Corbyn, some worrying news from the world of local Government finance:
https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2018/08/pwlb-loans-rise-councils-try-shore-financial-futures?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_term=
Are there more Northamptonshires in the offing ?
He's probably the only modern political figure who could pull off the Dennis Healey trick of being able play the piano and chat on a light-ent show and deliver a forensic, economically meaningful speech. Of course he'd face the same obstacles anyone faces, but a far better bet to do something than the others from his generation cited as possible comeback kids and D Miliband in particular.
Its easy to see the effect of that latter point: if you're an ordinary Labour member, supporter or even voter, you've been told for decades that the Tories are evil and your side is on the side of the angels. So when people say it's all a smear against the angels, you might well believe them. And even if you don't, the Tories are worse.
And they won't fight against Corbyn, because even if they think he's a sh*t, he's their sh*t.
And hence a party that has brought much good to the country will be destroyed if good people are not willing to rid it of its infection.
It's a national disaster what has happened to both Tories and Labour in the last few years as a the centre is hollowed out.
BoJo and JRM were rightly criticised on here the other day for meeting up with Steve Bannon. Now they have an answer: "At least we don't consort with the KKK."
Jesus: what a country we are becoming.
If England can pile up the runs (no certainty, of course), India will likely prove fragile.
His problem, of course, is that he's not in parliament.
I can't see why he would go back. With Yvette still in the Commons, he can still meet up with his old friends and have influence from the outside, if he wants it.
And would the wider membership welcome him?
And I don't possess any pearls.
In fact, the Labour party is Eddie Brock to Corbyn's Venom ...
They may face a choice between that and lining up behind a far left candidate.
The only reason I think he'd come back is that reading his book there's a strong hint of regret about unfinished business and a sense of frustration that his shot at the big time as a minister, leadership candidate, and shadow chancellor came before he was ready - as he was so tied up in the world of Gordon Brown he hadn't matured, built a hinterland and his own sense of what he wanted to achieve personally, while struggling with his stammer made him an awkward performer. He was quite hurt I think about being passed over as the 'anti-Blairite' candidate in 2010 for Ed Miliband because of his image as a bit of a heartless, awkward backroom boy.