Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
What do they mean? Civil unrest because people might not get their Amazon packages delivered on time?
Possibly that's exactly what they mean. People will not be able to get FitBits and Blurays. Goddamn you EU, goddamn you!....[shakes fist towards the heavens]
[camera pans out to a post-apocalyptic landscape. People forced to use CDs. The horror]
What do they mean? Civil unrest because people might not get their Amazon packages delivered on time?
Prime is increasingly stretching from next-day to 'whenever we feel like it' delivery. So not sure I would notice the difference!
Or in my case, for an important package, due Friday, insist they have delivered it on time. Just to a random address with the same door number in an adjacent village! If it wasn't for the kind and honest lady recipient taking the trouble to drive to my address, it would have been lost forever. Not sure what comeback I would have had. Computer says delivered!
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Michael Gove and Jeremy Hunt are hardly unknowns to the public, Gove was along with Boris the key figure in the Leave campaign and Hunt was Health Secretary and is now Foreign Secretary. Javid maybe but even he is now Home Secretary. Mogg who was also included is probably the most high profile Tory backbencher.
What is clear is only Boris out of all those surveyed does any better than May against Corbyn Labour
If I were to walk out into the street and ask any random member of the public if they knew who Javid, Hunt, Gove or even Mogg are I'd expect more blank looks than recognition. That's not even a party political point that I'm making... I'd expect even less recognition for my own party's MPs (including Vince Cable).
We're the weirdos for knowing who is in the cabinet, the shadow cabinet and the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Most people haven't a clue and are, therefore, normal.
Enough would recognise them though to make a decision on whether they prefer them to Corbyn or not. The reason Boris is ahead of all the other candidates against Corbyn Labour is because he wins back enough Tory Leavers who have defected to UKIP without being as extreme as Mogg thus still winning enough centrists and finally he has charisma unlike any of the other dullards in the Cabinet who polled so poorly in today's poll
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Both Jo Swinson and Layla Moran are hideously overrated. Go to YouTube, and after you've watched all my videos, watch them.
Neither of them are impressive.
The Liberals had Jeremy Thorpe, David Steel and Paddy Ashdown in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. They were three intelligent and impressive leaders (whatever their other... errr... foibles). And now we're talking about Layla Moran. Youth does not automatically mean substance. Sometimes it just means someone who hasn't lived very long.
The LibDems "bench" simply isn't a very large one, and doesn't have that many figures with substance. It needs someone with energy (that counts Cable out), but also someone with intelligence, passion and communication skills. It needs someone who can be seen as a Cabinet minister in a coalition government. It needs someone who can work out what niche the Liberal Democrats can fill in the next decade.
Sadly, I don't see anyone who fills that role.
It's notable how the LDs have gone from having so much potential talent about 10 years ago to having so little today, even when you take the reduction in the number of their MPs into account.
His biggest problem is he was out of form at the world cup - I do however think the picture with Erdogan was misjudged. Obviously one doesn't win a world cup winner's medal without being a top player.
None of which would have mattered one jot had they not lost to Korea.
What do they mean? Civil unrest because people might not get their Amazon packages delivered on time?
Possibly that's exactly what they mean. People will not be able to get FitBits and Blurays. Goddamn you EU, goddamn you!....[shakes fist towards the heavens]
[camera pans out to a post-apocalyptic landscape. People forced to use CDs. The horror]
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Jo Swinson, although more impressive than Layla Moran, is not *that* impressive. Sure, she seems dully competent. But is that enough?
Michael Gove and Jeremy Hunt are hardly unknowns to the public, Gove was along with Boris the key figure in the Leave campaign and Hunt was Health Secretary and is now Foreign Secretary. Javid maybe but even he is now Home Secretary. Mogg who was also included is probably the most high profile Tory backbencher.
What is clear is only Boris out of all those surveyed does any better than May against Corbyn Labour
If I were to walk out into the street and ask any random member of the public if they knew who Javid, Hunt, Gove or even Mogg are I'd expect more blank looks than recognition. That's not even a party political point that I'm making... I'd expect even less recognition for my own party's MPs (including Vince Cable).
We're the weirdos for knowing who is in the cabinet, the shadow cabinet and the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Most people haven't a clue and are, therefore, normal.
If you showed me a picture of a random person, and a picture of Corbyn and asked who I would prefer to be Prime Minister, I'd choose the random image.
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
Not sure Bolton is right about MEPs though. In the article he claims he has been told that existing MEPs will stay on for a bit, if there is some kind of A50 extension. I seem to recall reading that the legal advice was they would have to stand and if win, be in place for the full 5 years of nxt EU parliament.
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Jo Swinson, although more impressive than Layla Moran, is not *that* impressive. Sure, she seems dully competent. But is that enough?
It shouldn't be. But what other options do they have?
Lamb is recovering from his health scare Fallon can't have another go Carmichael is still trying to get away from his recent difficulties Brake gets too hot under the collar for his own good Davey left it too late to build a profile Hobhouse is probably too German Jardine/Lloyd/Stone - too anonymous
So it does come now to Swinson v Moran. Which is never going to be a battle of political heavyweights which clear visions and strong track records.
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Jo Swinson, although more impressive than Layla Moran, is not *that* impressive. Sure, she seems dully competent. But is that enough?
It shouldn't be. But what other options do they have?
Lamb is recovering from his health scare Fallon can't have another go Carmichael is still trying to get away from his recent difficulties Brake gets too hot under the collar for his own good Davey left it too late to build a profile Hobhouse is probably too German Jardine/Lloyd/Stone - too anonymous
So it does come now to Swinson v Moran. Which is never going to be a battle of political heavyweights which clear visions and strong track records.
Both Jo Swinson and Layla Moran are hideously overrated. Go to YouTube, and after you've watched all my videos, watch them.
Neither of them are impressive.
The Liberals had Jeremy Thorpe, David Steel and Paddy Ashdown in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. They were three intelligent and impressive leaders (whatever their other... errr... foibles). And now we're talking about Layla Moran. Youth does not automatically mean substance. Sometimes it just means someone who hasn't lived very long.
The LibDems "bench" simply isn't a very large one, and doesn't have that many figures with substance. It needs someone with energy (that counts Cable out), but also someone with intelligence, passion and communication skills. It needs someone who can be seen as a Cabinet minister in a coalition government. It needs someone who can work out what niche the Liberal Democrats can fill in the next decade.
Sadly, I don't see anyone who fills that role.
It's notable how the LDs have gone from having so much potential talent about 10 years ago to having so little today, even when you take the reduction in the number of their MPs into account.
Would include Kennedy in that list. Right call on Iraq. Balls to defy the Press and 2 main Parties and campaign on it. More sense pissed than the other 2 sober.
Both Jo Swinson and Layla Moran are hideously overrated. Go to YouTube, and after you've watched all my videos, watch them.
Neither of them are impressive.
The Liberals had Jeremy Thorpe, David Steel and Paddy Ashdown in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. They were three intelligent and impressive leaders (whatever their other... errr... foibles). And now we're talking about Layla Moran. Youth does not automatically mean substance. Sometimes it just means someone who hasn't lived very long.
The LibDems "bench" simply isn't a very large one, and doesn't have that many figures with substance. It needs someone with energy (that counts Cable out), but also someone with intelligence, passion and communication skills. It needs someone who can be seen as a Cabinet minister in a coalition government. It needs someone who can work out what niche the Liberal Democrats can fill in the next decade.
Sadly, I don't see anyone who fills that role.
It's notable how the LDs have gone from having so much potential talent about 10 years ago to having so little today, even when you take the reduction in the number of their MPs into account.
Would include Kennedy in that list. Right call on Iraq. Balls to defy the Press and 2 main Parties and campaign on it. More sense pissed than the other 2 sober.
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Jo Swinson, although more impressive than Layla Moran, is not *that* impressive. Sure, she seems dully competent. But is that enough?
It shouldn't be. But what other options do they have?
Lamb is recovering from his health scare Fallon can't have another go Carmichael is still trying to get away from his recent difficulties Brake gets too hot under the collar for his own good Davey left it too late to build a profile Hobhouse is probably too German Jardine/Lloyd/Stone - too anonymous
So it does come now to Swinson v Moran. Which is never going to be a battle of political heavyweights which clear visions and strong track records.
Dull and Duller
Pedantic alert: Farron.
Davey will fancy a go though.
Bah yes - I always get that one wrong.
Davey in that company will look far too XY to be acceptable. Given the lack of female leadership in the party to date, they won't go male again.
'More revealing about the EU at the moment was getting a severe telling off from the Danish border police for trying to cross from Germany into Denmark without my passport. I said 'but Schengen... he said 'it's a border, you must have your passport' - the driving licence was ok as they could look me up by my CPR number but could have been arrested and fined for crossing without a passport'
The Danes are quite strict on this - hundreds of runners on a fun run last summer which started in Germany, crossed the Danish border and then ended in Germany were told they had go carry their passports as they might be challenged as they ran across the border!
Michael Gove and Jeremy Hunt are hardly unknowns to the public, Gove was along with Boris the key figure in the Leave campaign and Hunt was Health Secretary and is now Foreign Secretary. Javid maybe but even he is now Home Secretary. Mogg who was also included is probably the most high profile Tory backbencher.
What is clear is only Boris out of all those surveyed does any better than May against Corbyn Labour
If I were to walk out into the street and ask any random member of the public if they knew who Javid, Hunt, Gove or even Mogg are I'd expect more blank looks than recognition. That's not even a party political point that I'm making... I'd expect even less recognition for my own party's MPs (including Vince Cable).
We're the weirdos for knowing who is in the cabinet, the shadow cabinet and the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Most people haven't a clue and are, therefore, normal.
If you showed me a picture of a random person, and a picture of Corbyn and asked who I would prefer to be Prime Minister, I'd choose the random image.
Maybe a random person should be next Tory leader then rather than Hunt, Javid, Gove, Mogg or Bojo? Perhaps we could put it as a raffle prize?
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Jo Swinson, although more impressive than Layla Moran, is not *that* impressive. Sure, she seems dully competent. But is that enough?
It shouldn't be. But what other options do they have?
Lamb is recovering from his health scare Fallon can't have another go Carmichael is still trying to get away from his recent difficulties Brake gets too hot under the collar for his own good Davey left it too late to build a profile Hobhouse is probably too German Jardine/Lloyd/Stone - too anonymous
So it does come now to Swinson v Moran. Which is never going to be a battle of political heavyweights which clear visions and strong track records.
Dull and Duller
Lamb has made a full recovery from what sounds a transient vascular nerve palsy.
It is his more nuanced Brexit approach that kept him out of the last race.
I think he will not stand again for the same reason. Pity, because he would generate useful disscusion on the Brexit issue.
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
Not sure Bolton is right about MEPs though. In the article he claims he has been told that existing MEPs will stay on for a bit, if there is some kind of A50 extension. I seem to recall reading that the legal advice was they would have to stand and if win, be in place for the full 5 years of nxt EU parliament.
I highly doubt Article 50 will be extended anyway, May would be unlikely to survive that
I know it was. (The first time I encountered it was in the Sherlock Holmes story "The Adventure of the Illustrious Client" which I read when I was about 10 years old).
The point is it had virtually died out by the second half of the 20th century. No-one expected it to return in the 21st.
In defence of rcs and his "over-reaction" - "over-rated" depends on how highly you think they are rated in the first place. If you haven't heard much buzz about someone then you might think that even if they're moderately okay, they aren't "over-rated", and that calling them "over-rated" implies they are, in fact, terrible. On the other hand, if you keep getting told that the sun shines out of their backsides, then even if you think they're half-decent you're still going to call them "over-rated". So who you've been listening to, what media sources you consume, are going to affect your perception of their rating.
It's one reason I hate debates (both in sport and politics) about who is "over-rated", since implicitly it is as much about whoever has been spewing out the (allegedly inaccurate) ratings as it is about the subjects of the ratings themselves.
Swinson and Moran have been talked of as "the next leader of the Lib Dems" by plenty of commentators and media folk. In fact they have each been talked about in such a spirit as to imply that it is completely natural and essentially uncontested that they are going to take over... which is obviously contradictory, since they can't both achieve that feat. To be fair Swinson is probably introduced as "next leader" more often, and Moran as the slightly less-ambitious-sounding "future leader", but even so, they are both being talked up a lot. To the extent that if you looked at media coverage of the Lib Dems, they seem to only have a leader, an ex-leader and two future leaders... one might wonder whether the rest of their MPs even exist. With all that buzz, you'd have to be pretty impressive to live up to it and not count as "over-rated".
And in comparison to the levels of talent that the Lib Dems have been fortunate enough to possess in the recent past, then surely they're no Charles Kennedy. And I have seen nothing to suggest they are even in the same ball park as Paddy Ashdown.
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
Not sure Bolton is right about MEPs though. In the article he claims he has been told that existing MEPs will stay on for a bit, if there is some kind of A50 extension. I seem to recall reading that the legal advice was they would have to stand and if win, be in place for the full 5 years of nxt EU parliament.
I highly doubt Article 50 will be extended anyway, May would be unlikely to survive that
One of the events which you think various political leaders would not survive is actually going to happen...
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Jo Swinson, although more impressive than Layla Moran, is not *that* impressive. Sure, she seems dully competent. But is that enough?
She’s married to a uni friend of mine. That’s a very fair description
No her dad is British - a former British EU ambassador - and she was born in Hammersmith. Her great grandfather was a famous writer from Palestine of Othordox Christian origin admittedly - see below - and her mother is a Lebanese Arab Christian.
Not that it really matters but she seems to have had a very privileged middle class upbringing in west London doing a fair bit of travelling because her dad was a diplomat - she hardly struggled from nothing to make it to London from the war torn West Bank or Gaza?
She may well make a great Lib Dem leader but let's not get carried away with her life story.
Wish "back-story" was less of a big deal in politics. They often turn out to be far less impressive upon closer examination. And moreover, say more about their parents' achievements, or those of some more distant ancestor, than about their own...
No her dad is British - a former British EU ambassador - and she was born in Hammersmith. Her great grandfather was a famous writer from Palestine of Othordox Christian origin admittedly - see below - and her mother is a Lebanese Arab Christian.
Not that it really matters but she seems to have had a very privileged middle class upbringing in west London doing a fair bit of travelling because her dad was a diplomat - she hardly struggled from nothing to make it to London from the war torn West Bank or Gaza?
She may well make a great Lib Dem leader but let's not get carried away with her life story.
Wish "back-story" was less of a big deal in politics. They often turn out to be far less impressive upon closer examination. And moreover, say more about their parents' achievements, or those of some more distant ancestor, than about their own...
Her work in education prior to entering the House was helping run a tutorial school for International Bacc candidates - hardly helping those at the bottom.
She screams Middle Class Euro privilege. They need someone who speaks normal.
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
The most surprising thing about a second vote is how many supposedly intelligent people now say it’s a good idea without being able to say either what the wording should be or how parliament should interpret the result, particularly if there are more than two options.
The people have already had a vote, the remainer twits don’t realise how patronising it is to call it the people’s vote.
“While Sadiq Khan virtue signals, young Londoners are dying. It is an utter failure of his duty as Mayor“
Which is weird. As the murder rate seems to be up across the country. Does Khan's malign influence spread that far? Or are Londoners' lives more significant? Or is a Conservative govt overseeing a rise in violent crime? Which is it?
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
It's not a PeoplesVote. It's a RemainerVote.
And patronisingly calling it The People’s Vote is all you need to understand why they lost last time.
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
It's not a PeoplesVote. It's a RemainerVote.
Or an ElitesVote. The People Voted, the Elites did not like the result so decided to tell the People to go away and rethink and then vote all over again
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
Not sure Bolton is right about MEPs though. In the article he claims he has been told that existing MEPs will stay on for a bit, if there is some kind of A50 extension. I seem to recall reading that the legal advice was they would have to stand and if win, be in place for the full 5 years of nxt EU parliament.
I highly doubt Article 50 will be extended anyway, May would be unlikely to survive that
One of the events which you think various political leaders would not survive is actually going to happen...
No, May would lose a vote of no confidence within a week. There may still be a transition deal though but even that a majority of Tories would not accept extending beyond December 2020
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
It's not a PeoplesVote. It's a RemainerVote.
We have already had a people's vote - which two years on the people promoting a people's vote still won't accept the result of. They used to demand a second referendum but that doesn't play so well with the focus groups and pollsters so they simply rename what they always wanted - to overturn the first people's vote - and assume we won't notice.
Any new vote would quite rightly be very divisive and arguably solve nothing if as seems clear the country is pretty much split 50 50.
And most problematically for Labour which side would Corbyn pick and would his MPs back him. The last referendum nearly ended his leadership!
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
The most surprising thing about a second vote is how many supposedly intelligent people now say it’s a good idea without being able to say either what the wording should be or how parliament should interpret the result, particularly if there are more than two options.
The people have already had a vote, the remainer twits don’t realise how patronising it is to call it the people’s vote.
Indeed, the BBC did a survey in Middlesbrough on the evening news and most of the 'people' decided they would rather not have a 'people' s vote' thankyou very much as they had already voted on the issue the first time.
Most of the 'people' calling for this 'people's vote' seem to live in SW1
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
It's not a PeoplesVote. It's a RemainerVote.
Or an ElitesVote. The People Voted, the Elites did not like the result so decided to tell the People to go away and rethink and then vote all over again
Under the guise of “the people’s vote”. Not the most intelligent of species, remainers. Reminds us a bit of the Dodo.
Has The People’s Vote movement officially decided on wording? In theory for every remainer suggesting wording for the ballot paper you can get a different wording altogether?
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
It's not a PeoplesVote. It's a RemainerVote.
Or an ElitesVote. The People Voted, the Elites did not like the result so decided to tell the People to go away and rethink and then vote all over again
Under the guise of “the people’s vote”. Not the most intelligent of species, remainers. Reminds us a bit of the Dodo.
Has The People’s Vote movement officially decided on wording? In theory for every remainer suggesting wording for the ballot paper you can get a different wording altogether?
Do You
A Wish to stay in the EU after all and keep your job
B Still want to leave the EU and crash out without a deal and lose your job, your house, all food in the supermarkets and take Britain back to the stone age all because you want to be beastly to foreigners and immigrants
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
HYUFD is not only an expert about Tory party matters, he now is an expert on the Labour Party. He writes so much shite!
Obviously I have hit a nerve.
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
The most surprising thing about a second vote is how many supposedly intelligent people now say it’s a good idea without being able to say either what the wording should be or how parliament should interpret the result, particularly if there are more than two options.
The people have already had a vote, the remainer twits don’t realise how patronising it is to call it the people’s vote.
Indeed, the BBC did a survey in Middlesbrough on the evening news and most of the 'people' decided they would rather not have a 'people' s vote' thankyou very much as they had already voted on the issue the first time.
Most of the 'people' calling for this 'people's vote' seem to live in SW1
Is that where John Major eats his peas these days? Sounds like it could be just a mugging or two away from the oval.
In defence of rcs and his "over-reaction" - "over-rated" depends on how highly you think they are rated in the first place. If you haven't heard much buzz about someone then you might think that even if they're moderately okay, they aren't "over-rated", and that calling them "over-rated" implies they are, in fact, terrible. On the other hand, if you keep getting told that the sun shines out of their backsides, then even if you think they're half-decent you're still going to call them "over-rated". So who you've been listening to, what media sources you consume, are going to affect your perception of their rating.
It's one reason I hate debates (both in sport and politics) about who is "over-rated", since implicitly it is as much about whoever has been spewing out the (allegedly inaccurate) ratings as it is about the subjects of the ratings themselves.
Swinson and Moran have been talked of as "the next leader of the Lib Dems" by plenty of commentators and media folk. In fact they have each been talked about in such a spirit as to imply that it is completely natural and essentially uncontested that they are going to take over... which is obviously contradictory, since they can't both achieve that feat. To be fair Swinson is probably introduced as "next leader" more often, and Moran as the slightly less-ambitious-sounding "future leader", but even so, they are both being talked up a lot. To the extent that if you looked at media coverage of the Lib Dems, they seem to only have a leader, an ex-leader and two future leaders... one might wonder whether the rest of their MPs even exist. With all that buzz, you'd have to be pretty impressive to live up to it and not count as "over-rated".
And in comparison to the levels of talent that the Lib Dems have been fortunate enough to possess in the recent past, then surely they're no Charles Kennedy. And I have seen nothing to suggest they are even in the same ball park as Paddy Ashdown.
I don't think either of them is a Tim Farron, even. Although I think both of them are better than a Menzies Campbell or a Vince Cable.
Now, who's that chap who used to be MP for Eastleigh? Is he still available for the role?
In defence of rcs and his "over-reaction" - "over-rated" depends on how highly you think they are rated in the first place. If you haven't heard much buzz about someone then you might think that even if they're moderately okay, they aren't "over-rated", and that calling them "over-rated" implies they are, in fact, terrible. On the other hand, if you keep getting told that the sun shines out of their backsides, then even if you think they're half-decent you're still going to call them "over-rated". So who you've been listening to, what media sources you consume, are going to affect your perception of their rating.
It's one reason I hate debates (both in sport and politics) about who is "over-rated", since implicitly it is as much about whoever has been spewing out the (allegedly inaccurate) ratings as it is about the subjects of the ratings themselves.
Swinson and Moran have been talked of as "the next leader of the Lib Dems" by plenty of commentators and media folk. In fact they have each been talked about in such a spirit as to imply that it is completely natural and essentially uncontested that they are going to take over... which is obviously contradictory, since they can't both achieve that feat. To be fair Swinson is probably introduced as "next leader" more often, and Moran as the slightly less-ambitious-sounding "future leader", but even so, they are both being talked up a lot. To the extent that if you looked at media coverage of the Lib Dems, they seem to only have a leader, an ex-leader and two future leaders... one might wonder whether the rest of their MPs even exist. With all that buzz, you'd have to be pretty impressive to live up to it and not count as "over-rated".
And in comparison to the levels of talent that the Lib Dems have been fortunate enough to possess in the recent past, then surely they're no Charles Kennedy. And I have seen nothing to suggest they are even in the same ball park as Paddy Ashdown.
I don't think either of them is a Tim Farron, even. Although I think both of them are better than a Menzies Campbell or a Vince Cable.
Now, who's that chap who used to be MP for Eastleigh? Is he still available for the role?
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
It's not a PeoplesVote. It's a RemainerVote.
Or an ElitesVote. The People Voted, the Elites did not like the result so decided to tell the People to go away and rethink and then vote all over again
Under the guise of “the people’s vote”. Not the most intelligent of species, remainers. Reminds us a bit of the Dodo.
Has The People’s Vote movement officially decided on wording? In theory for every remainer suggesting wording for the ballot paper you can get a different wording altogether?
Do You
A Wish to stay in the EU after all and keep your job
B Still want to leave the EU and crash out without a deal and lose your job, your house, all food in the supermarkets and take Britain back to the stone age all because you want to be beastly to foreigners and immigrants
Or something similarly objective
Just the sort of hysterical alternative option you might expect from someone who advocates a people's vote!
Waitrose running low on stock might seem like we are reverting to the Stone Age - but it really isn't. The snowflakes might struggle for a bit but it's mostly first world problem stuff.
O/T - but has anyone heard as to when the Carbon Dioxide manufacturing situation will improve? There was a lot of coverage at the start of the problems - but I am struggling to find anything concrete as regards to progress in resolving things.
O/T - but has anyone heard as to when the Carbon Dioxide manufacturing situation will improve? There was a lot of coverage at the start of the problems - but I am struggling to find anything concrete as regards to progress in resolving things.
I've been wondering about this, had to switch from lemonade because local supplies of the one I like have gone.
O/T - but has anyone heard as to when the Carbon Dioxide manufacturing situation will improve? There was a lot of coverage at the start of the problems - but I am struggling to find anything concrete as regards to progress in resolving things.
I've been wondering about this, had to switch from lemonade because local supplies of the one I like have gone.
The Great Crumpet Shortage doesn't seem to have happened. But many carbonated drinks are in very limited supply
Not happening, Adam Bolton in the Sunday Times today mentioned talks he had had with Corbyn aides who said they will never agree to a second referendum as they believe Corbyn cannot become PM without working class Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands even if most Labour voters back Remain and would support one
It's not a PeoplesVote. It's a RemainerVote.
Or an ElitesVote. The People Voted, the Elites did not like the result so decided to tell the People to go away and rethink and then vote all over again
Under the guise of “the people’s vote”. Not the most intelligent of species, remainers. Reminds us a bit of the Dodo.
Has The People’s Vote movement officially decided on wording? In theory for every remainer suggesting wording for the ballot paper you can get a different wording altogether?
Do You
A Wish to stay in the EU after all and keep your job
B Still want to leave the EU and crash out without a deal and lose your job, your house, all food in the supermarkets and take Britain back to the stone age all because you want to be beastly to foreigners and immigrants
Or something similarly objective
Just the sort of hysterical alternative option you might expect from someone who advocates a people's vote!
Waitrose running low on stock might seem like we are reverting to the Stone Age - but it really isn't. The snowflakes might struggle for a bit but it's mostly first world problem stuff.
I think I’m going to be first in line to see food shortages at their local Waitrose, as UK food exports are directed to local demand. I guess I’ll have to find bacon from somewhere else for a few weeks. As you say, first world problems.
Layla Moran might be seen as more charismatic than Jo Swinson, especially south of the border, but how tested is she? She might turn out to be politically naive or gaffe-prone. Swinson would possibly be the safer pair of hands.
No idea where anyone gets the impression that Moran is charismatic. Everything I have seen of her (and she is my MP unfortunately) is that she is just robotic. Not sure she has any leadership qualities or any real sense of a political vision.
Her background is one of Euro privilege. She lacks the human touch to my mind. And has no real experience in national politics
LDs would be foolish to look in her direction.
I have no inside information, but strikes me some kind of operation happened over last few days, from some people within Liberals. Sunday Times for example running a piece. Someone is providing briefings, off the record sources etc.
To what end?
Perhaps Carmichael set up Cable and Farron with 'allowing' them to miss the key vote this week - maybe he has an agenda that he is trying to push. Trying to become king/queen-maker?
Interesting theory. Who has he in mind? *
* the set of possibles is very small
Swinson would be the obvious thought - given the Scottish connection. Perhaps that is why they went so big on the pairing 'outrage' - to help build her profile
Jo Swinson, although more impressive than Layla Moran, is not *that* impressive. Sure, she seems dully competent. But is that enough?
Exceedingly ordinary, if that is their best they are in even deeper trouble than I thought. She is on a par with Scottish labour and that is a very low bar.
Both Jo Swinson and Layla Moran are hideously overrated. Go to YouTube, and after you've watched all my videos, watch them.
Neither of them are impressive.
The Liberals had Jeremy Thorpe, David Steel and Paddy Ashdown in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. They were three intelligent and impressive leaders (whatever their other... errr... foibles). And now we're talking about Layla Moran. Youth does not automatically mean substance. Sometimes it just means someone who hasn't lived very long.
The LibDems "bench" simply isn't a very large one, and doesn't have that many figures with substance. It needs someone with energy (that counts Cable out), but also someone with intelligence, passion and communication skills. It needs someone who can be seen as a Cabinet minister in a coalition government. It needs someone who can work out what niche the Liberal Democrats can fill in the next decade.
Sadly, I don't see anyone who fills that role.
Why would you say that both are 'hideously overrated? That seems quite an extreme reaction, and this must be something more than just an anti-LibDem thing. Is it because they are women, and strong women at that. Or because one of them has the temerity to 'fall pregnant'? Or one of them comes over as a bit 'shrill'?
Or perhaps it's because they are both thoroughly modern, decent, female MPs, with a different, more inclusive approach to politics, who try to avoid much of the posturing, cock-strutting and public-school-male shenanigans that seem to take up much of the HoC? Maybe that's what you object to - or am I reading too much into your reaction?
Did rcs1000 imply that they were not impressive because they were women?
Comments
https://twitter.com/Remain_Labour/status/1021117342342934528
[camera pans out to a post-apocalyptic landscape. People forced to use CDs. The horror]
If it wasn't for the kind and honest lady recipient taking the trouble to drive to my address, it would have been lost forever.
Not sure what comeback I would have had.
Computer says delivered!
* the set of possibles is very small
https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1021077429878771712
Barnier dismisses white paper’s ‘enhanced equivalence’ proposal saying EU needs autonomy"
https://www.ft.com/
I have posted Boulton's article below and as a top political journalist I expect he has had rather more conversations with Corbyn aides than you have. They are also right, without winning marginal seats which voted Leave in the North and Midlands Corbyn has no chance of becoming PM. Most Remain voting Labour voters are concentrated in safe Labour inner city or university town seats
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/mps-must-have-a-great-think-or-brexit-will-land-us-in-the-muck-qs7pbwqt8
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/22/uk-drops-death-penalty-guantanamo-opposition-opens-door-execution/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/11/acid-attacks-victorian-britain
Lamb is recovering from his health scare
Fallon can't have another go
Carmichael is still trying to get away from his recent difficulties
Brake gets too hot under the collar for his own good
Davey left it too late to build a profile
Hobhouse is probably too German
Jardine/Lloyd/Stone - too anonymous
So it does come now to Swinson v Moran. Which is never going to be a battle of political heavyweights which clear visions and strong track records.
Dull and Duller
Davey will fancy a go though.
More sense pissed than the other 2 sober.
Davey in that company will look far too XY to be acceptable. Given the lack of female leadership in the party to date, they won't go male again.
'More revealing about the EU at the moment was getting a severe telling off from the Danish border police for trying to cross from Germany into Denmark without my passport. I said 'but Schengen... he said 'it's a border, you must have your passport' - the driving licence was ok as they could look me up by my CPR number but could have been arrested and fined for crossing without a passport'
The Danes are quite strict on this - hundreds of runners on a fun run last summer which started in Germany, crossed the Danish border and then ended in Germany were told they had go carry their passports as they might be challenged as they ran across the border!
https://www.thelocal.dk/20170829/athletic-runners-asked-to-carry-passport-while-crossing-denmark-germany-border
It is his more nuanced Brexit approach that kept him out of the last race.
I think he will not stand again for the same reason. Pity, because he would generate useful disscusion on the Brexit issue.
The point is it had virtually died out by the second half of the 20th century. No-one expected it to return in the 21st.
It's one reason I hate debates (both in sport and politics) about who is "over-rated", since implicitly it is as much about whoever has been spewing out the (allegedly inaccurate) ratings as it is about the subjects of the ratings themselves.
Swinson and Moran have been talked of as "the next leader of the Lib Dems" by plenty of commentators and media folk. In fact they have each been talked about in such a spirit as to imply that it is completely natural and essentially uncontested that they are going to take over... which is obviously contradictory, since they can't both achieve that feat. To be fair Swinson is probably introduced as "next leader" more often, and Moran as the slightly less-ambitious-sounding "future leader", but even so, they are both being talked up a lot. To the extent that if you looked at media coverage of the Lib Dems, they seem to only have a leader, an ex-leader and two future leaders... one might wonder whether the rest of their MPs even exist. With all that buzz, you'd have to be pretty impressive to live up to it and not count as "over-rated".
And in comparison to the levels of talent that the Lib Dems have been fortunate enough to possess in the recent past, then surely they're no Charles Kennedy. And I have seen nothing to suggest they are even in the same ball park as Paddy Ashdown.
Men were shot as they retuned from colleague's funeral in minibus"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/south-africa-taxi-massacre-killed-ambush-death-count-eleven-johannesburg-a8458986.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/22/sadiq-khan-virtue-signals-young-londoners-dying-utter-failure/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
“While Sadiq Khan virtue signals, young Londoners are dying. It is an utter failure of his duty as Mayor“
She screams Middle Class Euro privilege. They need someone who speaks normal.
The people have already had a vote, the remainer twits don’t realise how patronising it is to call it the people’s vote.
As the murder rate seems to be up across the country.
Does Khan's malign influence spread that far?
Or are Londoners' lives more significant?
Or is a Conservative govt overseeing a rise in violent crime?
Which is it?
https://twitter.com/MPSWestminster/status/1019694045990457344
Khan has been rubbish - achieved nothing apart from banning bikini adverts the old prude.
Any new vote would quite rightly be very divisive and arguably solve nothing if as seems clear the country is pretty much split 50 50.
And most problematically for Labour which side would Corbyn pick and would his MPs back him. The last referendum nearly ended his leadership!
I can readily see why Corbyn won't support it.
Most of the 'people' calling for this 'people's vote' seem to live in SW1
Has The People’s Vote movement officially decided on wording? In theory for every remainer suggesting wording for the ballot paper you can get a different wording altogether?
A Wish to stay in the EU after all and keep your job
B Still want to leave the EU and crash out without a deal and lose your job, your house, all food in the supermarkets and take Britain back to the stone age all because you want to be beastly to foreigners and immigrants
Or something similarly objective
Now, who's that chap who used to be MP for Eastleigh? Is he still available for the role?
Waitrose running low on stock might seem like we are reverting to the Stone Age - but it really isn't. The snowflakes might struggle for a bit but it's mostly first world problem stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wera_Hobhouse
*edit* Talk about backstory, this is a woman who has lived in Rochdale and lived to tell the tale. Look no further LDs.