I haven't backed him at quite those odds, but think I got some at 81 or so. Just a few pounds, but still splendid if he gets it.
He also made his money the honest way: beer.
Popular governor of a swing state. Good backstory.
Against that, he's perhaps a little moderate for the Democrats this year. And he's hardly done any pussy grabbing as far as I'm aware, which counts against him.
He's a kind of laconic guy, a sort of polar opposite to Trump. I have no doubt that Trump will find someway to tag him as a crazy Lefty or somesuch. I think that, unlike with Hillary, where there was barely concealed fury below the surface, Hickenlooper will just give a slight smile and ignore it.
Having seen the Democrats use the Primaries to elect a bunch of left wing nutjobs, I can't help wonder if Hickenlooper will struggle get traction with the Democratic base. But, I think he'd be a very good foil to Donald Trump.
Mr. 1000, trying to remember if it was PS2 or on the original Playstation. Probably PS2. Never played any other version.
To veer approximately on-topic, I wonder if there'll be a very large field for the blues next time, as there was the reds last time. That does seem helpful for outsiders.
Given OGH's record on this one should take note though as a trading option in itself it looks a pretty good price.
If I were the Democratic Party, I would be looking at a candidate who could get independent and swing voters on side - the pro-Trump hardcore aren't going to shift so don't waste time and effort on them - go for the Independents and the swing voters.
I suppose it's always possible the GOP will split and try to run its own candidate against Trump although I suppose the analogy with 1912 has Trump more Roosevelt than Taft but no analogy stands up to close inspection. Perhaps a better analogy would be the Dixiecrats - would Trumpians stand against a GOP candidate?
The point at which parties become sensible is when they decide they want a leader the electorate will want not a leader the party wants. Both Blair and Cameron came to lead their parties simply because they could reach beyond the core.
The Democrats need to consider an individual who can reach beyond the base but doesn't even have to reach too far - pick up Michigan, Florida, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and it's all over.
Have also followed OGH in on Hickenlooper. Green for a grand for next President. It feels like happy families when the pb.com community are all backing similar longshots. I imagine the mood will be very cheery if Jeremy Hunt or Rory Stewart are the next Con leader.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
Mr. rkrkrk, mine won't be if it's Stewart. I want a Hunt/Mordaunt final two.
You've had plenty of opportunities and tips to go for Stewart. You'd only have yourself to blame! Mordaunt a minor win for me, but would be glad at least to get that horrendous looking red figure next to JRM out of the picture...
Hickenlooper may run but he has little chance of getting the nomination with Democratic primary voters looking to pick a left liberal populist to take on Trump like Sanders or Warren after Hillary's defeat in 2016 on a centrist platform.
Though if it does end up Trump v Sanders/Warren I could see Hickenlooper on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich (who could again challenge Trump in the GOP primaries) focused on moderates and independents. That is where his real value lies, not for the Democratic nomination
I'd add - I think Liz Truss at 139/1 to be next Tory leader might be value. She speaks to a certain fringe of the party, and might feel she has the votes to run. At those odds she only needs to have a go in the next contest to be well worth backing.
Hickenlooper may run but he has little chance of getting the nomination with Democratic primary voters looking to pick a left liberal populist to take on Trump like Sanders or Warren after Hillary's defeat in 2016 on a centrist platform.
Though if it does end up Trump v Sanders/Warren I could see Hickenlooper on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich (who could again challenge Trump in the GOP primaries) focused on moderates and independents. That is where his real value lies, not for the Democratic nomination
I doubt there’d be a third-party ticket. Third parties never win nationally in the US. All they can do is nobble one or other of the two main parties.
I'd add - I think Liz Truss at 139/1 to be next Tory leader might be value. She speaks to a certain fringe of the party, and might feel she has the votes to run. At those odds she only needs to have a go in the next contest to be well worth backing.
I'd add - I think Liz Truss at 139/1 to be next Tory leader might be value. She speaks to a certain fringe of the party, and might feel she has the votes to run. At those odds she only needs to have a go in the next contest to be well worth backing.
Lunatic, I take it. She's almost as certifiable as JRM. I suppose that's a reflection of the state of the Tory Party now. It doesn't have just one lunatic fringe anymore. Conversely, the isolation of genuinely sensible figures like Ken Clarke also speaks volumes.
He's a kind of laconic guy, a sort of polar opposite to Trump. I have no doubt that Trump will find someway to tag him as a crazy Lefty or somesuch. I think that, unlike with Hillary, where there was barely concealed fury below the surface, Hickenlooper will just give a slight smile and ignore it.
Having seen the Democrats use the Primaries to elect a bunch of left wing nutjobs, I can't help wonder if Hickenlooper will struggle get traction with the Democratic base. But, I think he'd be a very good foil to Donald Trump.
I suspect Trump would go down the - he's not a very successful businessman, tiny business I could buy without even thinking etc. angle.
I think the field for left candidates may be more crowded, whereas Bernie had a pretty much free run last time and still didn't make it.
I suspect we will see more centrist candidates like Hickenlooper come out very strongly on issues like healthcare, perhaps with policies like Medicare for all, to pick up votes from the left.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
The time it takes to admit new members is constrained by how fast they can enact the EU acquis into local law. An immediately rejoining UK would have all of that as we have transposed it all into UK law. The only two parts that would need to be added are Schengen and the Euro. The Euro requires ERM membership, which is not mandatory (Sweden’s method of staying out indefinitely) and Schengen requires the other Schengen states to approve the state of the applicant’s border and internal security (which is why Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania are still not in Schengen). It would be easy for the UK to fudge staying out of both in practice.
And I think the EU would be delighted to have us rejoin after a car crash Brexit, pour encourager les autres.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
I'd add - I think Liz Truss at 139/1 to be next Tory leader might be value. She speaks to a certain fringe of the party, and might feel she has the votes to run. At those odds she only needs to have a go in the next contest to be well worth backing.
Lunatic, I take it. She's almost as certifiable as JRM. I suppose that's a reflection of the state of the Tory Party now. It doesn't have just one lunatic fringe anymore. Conversely, the isolation of genuinely sensible figures like Ken Clarke also speaks volumes.
There's a section of the Conservative party that just wants to cut taxes and shrink the state as their first, second and third priorities. Liz Truss could feel she needs to enter the race to represent this wing.
Alastair, I am very sorry to hear of that sad news. Your eulogy was truly inspiring and I am sure does him proud.Having lost both my parents, I can empathise with the deep void that bereavement brings to us. As a Spiritualist - and practising Medium - I have a different view of death to most people - and see it as a stage of development with the physical existence being replaced by a higher spiritual life in another dimension. That knowledge,however, does not take away the pain of losing a person's physical prescence.
Backed Raikkonen each way for the win at 10. Mercedes have recently started a bit iffily. There have also been a few front end collisions. Raikkonen could benefit from either.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
The time it takes to admit new members is constrained by how fast they can enact the EU acquis into local law. An immediately rejoining UK would have all of that as we have transposed it all into UK law. The only two parts that would need to be added are Schengen and the Euro. The Euro requires ERM membership, which is not mandatory (Sweden’s method of staying out indefinitely) and Schengen requires the other Schengen states to approve the state of the applicant’s border and internal security (which is why Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania are still not in Schengen). It would be easy for the UK to fudge staying out of both in practice.
And I think the EU would be delighted to have us rejoin after a car crash Brexit, pour encourager les autres.
If we hard Brexit, we might use that newly won regulatory freedom to diverge. Reversing that divergence would presumably be more problematic than if we had had a soft Brexit and had kept things very much aligned.
To be honest though I'm just speculating, I don't really have a clear sense of how easy rejoining would be. I think it would be wise if People's Vote group or similar groups started looking into this - at least as a backup option.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
Perhaps those who survive the civil unrest, the breakdown of society, the collapse of the economy (short term, for the next 50 years) and who manage to get all their wealth abroad into safe off-shore havens? The rest of us, not.
I'd add - I think Liz Truss at 139/1 to be next Tory leader might be value. She speaks to a certain fringe of the party, and might feel she has the votes to run. At those odds she only needs to have a go in the next contest to be well worth backing.
Lunatic, I take it. She's almost as certifiable as JRM. I suppose that's a reflection of the state of the Tory Party now. It doesn't have just one lunatic fringe anymore. Conversely, the isolation of genuinely sensible figures like Ken Clarke also speaks volumes.
The Tory left is more marginal than it's been in my lifetime; I'm technically a pensioner. The move to the right seems to have carried on long after Thatcher left office.
Truss appears insane but as you say it now seems a necessary qualification. Hammond has been sidelined, if not disowned, clearly for being too level-headed and competent. Stewart is probably doing a good job on prisons but never it seems says anything unrelated to his department, possibly because it might sound too sensible.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
By comparison the Treasury predicted in May 2016 that GDP would now be either 0.4% higher or 2.0% lower than it was then
Aberdeenshire Fife Nottinghamshire Staffordshire Norfolk Herefordshire Norfolk Surrey West Sussex Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
From the Times today
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
I see some of our Euro-loons have managed to end up retarded on the grief cycle following the referendum. You stayed too long on the denial phase, languished awhile on the anger phase, wallowed in the depression cycle but jibbed at the bargaining stage, Instead, you've returned to the anger phase.
Try to snap out of it because it doesn't do much for your mental health. We're beginning to feel sorry for you now!
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
By comparison the Treasury predicted in May 2016 that GDP would now be either 0.4% higher or 2.0% lower than it was then
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
The time it takes to admit new members is constrained by how fast they can enact the EU acquis into local law. An immediately rejoining UK would have all of that as we have transposed it all into UK law. The only two parts that would need to be added are Schengen and the Euro. The Euro requires ERM membership, which is not mandatory (Sweden’s method of staying out indefinitely) and Schengen requires the other Schengen states to approve the state of the applicant’s border and internal security (which is why Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania are still not in Schengen). It would be easy for the UK to fudge staying out of both in practice.
And I think the EU would be delighted to have us rejoin after a car crash Brexit, pour encourager les autres.
If we hard Brexit, we might use that newly won regulatory freedom to diverge. Reversing that divergence would presumably be more problematic than if we had had a soft Brexit and had kept things very much aligned.
To be honest though I'm just speculating, I don't really have a clear sense of how easy rejoining would be. I think it would be wise if People's Vote group or similar groups started looking into this - at least as a backup option.
I can see divergence in terms of workplace regulation, but in terms of product specifications, I just don't buy it. Take electronics, pretty much every piece of consumer electronics in the world is CE, FCC, and UL certified. Are we really expecting to create our own standard that's different from those? The same is true of autos, and most industrial goods. Irrespective of whether there is a "shared rulebook" or not, we will effectively track EU regulation, because virtually nothing is manufactured just for local consumption.
Aberdeenshire Fife Nottinghamshire Staffordshire Norfolk Herefordshire Norfolk Surrey West Sussex Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
From the Times today
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
Aberdeenshire Fife Nottinghamshire Staffordshire Norfolk Herefordshire Norfolk Surrey West Sussex Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
From the Times today
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
By comparison the Treasury predicted in May 2016 that GDP would now be either 0.4% higher or 2.0% lower than it was then
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Brexit town, for Brexit people.
Aberdeenshire Fife Nottinghamshire Staffordshire Norfolk Herefordshire Norfolk Surrey West Sussex Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
From the Times today
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
And anyone who has ever picked their own strawberries, gone blackberrying, seen an apple tree or anything similar will know that vast amounts of fruit and veg are never picked because they are already rotten.
Is 'no strawberry left behind' now some Scottish farming obsession ?
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
By comparison the Treasury predicted in May 2016 that GDP would now be either 0.4% higher or 2.0% lower than it was then
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Brexit town, for Brexit people.
The fact is that the UK economy has done far better than the Treasury said it would after a Leave vote.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Brexit town, for Brexit people.
The fact is that the UK economy has done far better than the Treasury said it would after a Leave vote.
Yes, I can imagine Tubbs saying that.
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Brexit town, for Brexit people.
The fact is that the UK economy has done far better than the Treasury said it would after a Leave vote.
Yes, I can imagine Tubbs saying that.
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
I'm quite happy for growth in consumption and imports and house prices to be subdued.
Rebalancing the economy into something sustainable is far more important than an extra 0.1% on nominal GDP.
Or do you think that the UK could continue to have a £100bn annual current account deficit on a permanent basis ?
He's a kind of laconic guy, a sort of polar opposite to Trump. I have no doubt that Trump will find someway to tag him as a crazy Lefty or somesuch. I think that, unlike with Hillary, where there was barely concealed fury below the surface, Hickenlooper will just give a slight smile and ignore it.
Having seen the Democrats use the Primaries to elect a bunch of left wing nutjobs, I can't help wonder if Hickenlooper will struggle get traction with the Democratic base. But, I think he'd be a very good foil to Donald Trump.
I suspect Trump would go down the - he's not a very successful businessman, tiny business I could buy without even thinking etc. angle.
I think the field for left candidates may be more crowded, whereas Bernie had a pretty much free run last time and still didn't make it.
I suspect we will see more centrist candidates like Hickenlooper come out very strongly on issues like healthcare, perhaps with policies like Medicare for all, to pick up votes from the left.
Sanders came from nowhere to almost beat the most overwhelming favourite in Democratic history Hillary Clinton. With a few more votes in Iowa next time he would have done that.
Warren and Sanders combined already comfortably top the Democratic primary polls even if Biden is nominally ahead
I'd add - I think Liz Truss at 139/1 to be next Tory leader might be value. She speaks to a certain fringe of the party, and might feel she has the votes to run. At those odds she only needs to have a go in the next contest to be well worth backing.
Lunatic, I take it. She's almost as certifiable as JRM. I suppose that's a reflection of the state of the Tory Party now. It doesn't have just one lunatic fringe anymore. Conversely, the isolation of genuinely sensible figures like Ken Clarke also speaks volumes.
This when the Labour Party is led by a hard Left socialist with a Maoist as Shadow Chancellor and Diane Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary?
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Brexit town, for Brexit people.
The fact is that the UK economy has done far better than the Treasury said it would after a Leave vote.
Yes, I can imagine Tubbs saying that.
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
I'm quite happy for growth in consumption and imports and house prices to be subdued.
Rebalancing the economy into something sustainable is far more important than an extra 0.1% on nominal GDP.
Or do you think that the UK could continue to have a £100bn annual current account deficit on a permanent basis ?
Straw man bollocks alert. Stick to counting strawberries, unless Tesco have banned you already for being some kind of pest.
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Brexit town, for Brexit people.
The fact is that the UK economy has done far better than the Treasury said it would after a Leave vote.
Yes, I can imagine Tubbs saying that.
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
I'm quite happy for growth in consumption and imports and house prices to be subdued.
Rebalancing the economy into something sustainable is far more important than an extra 0.1% on nominal GDP.
Or do you think that the UK could continue to have a £100bn annual current account deficit on a permanent basis ?
Straw man bollocks alert. Stick to counting strawberries, unless Tesco have banned you already for being some kind of pest.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Remainer town, for Remainer people.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
The time it takes to admit new members is constrained by how fast they can enact the EU acquis into local law. An immediately rejoining UK would have all of that as we have transposed it all into UK law. The only two parts that would need to be added are Schengen and the Euro. The Euro requires ERM membership, which is not mandatory (Sweden’s method of staying out indefinitely) and Schengen requires the other Schengen states to approve the state of the applicant’s border and internal security (which is why Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania are still not in Schengen). It would be easy for the UK to fudge staying out of both in practice.
And I think the EU would be delighted to have us rejoin after a car crash Brexit, pour encourager les autres.
Most likely we would join the single market once immigration has been brought down, I cannot see us supporting rejoining the full EU again or the EU being willing to put up with our demands for opt outs and vetoes which soon enough would continue exactly as before
Hickenlooper may run but he has little chance of getting the nomination with Democratic primary voters looking to pick a left liberal populist to take on Trump like Sanders or Warren after Hillary's defeat in 2016 on a centrist platform.
Though if it does end up Trump v Sanders/Warren I could see Hickenlooper on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich (who could again challenge Trump in the GOP primaries) focused on moderates and independents. That is where his real value lies, not for the Democratic nomination
I doubt there’d be a third-party ticket. Third parties never win nationally in the US. All they can do is nobble one or other of the two main parties.
A Trump v Sanders ticket would be the most polarised since Nixon v McGovern or Johnson v Goldwater, in fact even more so as Nixon and Johnson at least made some nods to the centrist establishment unlike Trump or Sanders. If ever there was a condition for a centrist candidate it would be that.
Don't forget either Perot got 19% as a third party candidate in 1992
I too am tidily green on Hickenlooper. The weird name factor made me do it. Also Governors tend to do well as candidates.
I am also on Kasich as a potential primary challenger to Trump, and also Evan McMullin, who was quite successful as 3rd party candidate in Utah, but also may Primary Trump. Both have hinted at running. McMullins twitter is worth following, he has a CIA background and really loathes Trump.
So why when London housing is such a scarce and expensive resource is taxpayers money being used to pay people to stay there to do nothing when people who would add value in finance, tech, culture etc cannot afford to live there ?
If you believe hard brexit will cause economic damage then it will also cause economic damage to other countries in the EU. The IMF say in order Ireland, Hol, Bel, France, Spain. Those countries are not going to even talk to the UK about re-joining until a new generation of politicians and civil servants have been installed. If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
They will catch a cold (quite a nasty one in Ireland's case). Meanwhile, we will get pneumonia.
The latest IMF report has the shortfall in growth under WTO in both UK & Ireland at 4% by 2030 , with Benelux & Malta next in line. If we get some kind of FTA, that's halved. If we end up as Norway the economic impacts are (in their words) 'negligible'.
To be fair, they got the delta between the UK and the Eurozone broadly right. What's happened is that - somewhat surprisingly - the Eurozone has quietly accelerated. Total imports were up 2.8% in the first half of 2018, with imports from the UK up 3.4%.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Brexit town, for Brexit people.
The fact is that the UK economy has done far better than the Treasury said it would after a Leave vote.
Yes, I can imagine Tubbs saying that.
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
I'm quite happy for growth in consumption and imports and house
Straw man bollocks alert. Stick to counting strawberries, unless Tesco have banned you already for being some kind of pest.
Facts are not welcome here! This is a Remainer town, for Remainer people.
You didn’t present any facts. Sorry. Does anyone actually doubt that Tubbs et al would have voted Brexit?
So why when London housing is such a scarce and expensive resource is taxpayers money being used to pay people to stay there to do nothing when people who would add value in finance, tech, culture etc cannot afford to live there ?
I am sure people in finance and tech could afford to live there, the average salary in the City and for the likes of Google, Apple and Facebook is close to £100 000 a year.
People in culture and other areas of the economy maybe not
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Reads to me as if they’re pointing out the realities: a hard border means that Ireland has the responsibilities to maintain the SM’s integrity. They don’t appear to have Ireland’s back.
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
If I'm the Dems I'm looking for a white middle aged man as my Presidential nominee.
Someone so boring they make John Kerry look lie a crazy maverick.
I think general sexism had a serious effect on Hilary's chances - a couple of voting day vox pops had a serious impact on me with a female voter saying there is no way a woman should be president as they are too emotional. If Hilary Clinton is considered 'emotional' then, well, I don't know.
How did we pick fruit before mass EU immigration ?
We had SAWS or a variant of it going back to when Adam was a lad.
Strangely, given a choice, Johnny Foreigner doesn't seem to want to come and do menial work for minimum wage while being charged for accommodation to boot.
How did we pick fruit before mass EU immigration ?
We had SAWS or a variant of it. Strangely, given a choice, Johnny Foreigner doesn't seem to want to come and do menial for minimum wage while being charged for accommodation to boot.
Nail hit on head. Jonny Foreigner can earn better money than that.
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Reads to me as if they’re pointing out the realities: a hard border means that Ireland has the responsibilities to maintain the SM’s integrity. They don’t appear to have Ireland’s back.
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
My first thought was that the EU was putting pressure on Ireland to moderate their position. To Mr Varadkar hard border means no tariffs or customs at all including electronic manifests, his position could only be satisfied by the UK staying in the EU completely. EEA+CU does not satisfy. The EU are in possession of a report that the high tech border is feasible over time. So I read it as pressure being applied so that no physical infrastructure at the border, but electronic customs docs and points of checking well away from the border should be acceptable. i.e not the hardest border in Ireland.
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Reads to me as if they’re pointing out the realities: a hard border means that Ireland has the responsibilities to maintain the SM’s integrity. They don’t appear to have Ireland’s back.
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
Right from the word go we have taken a very adversarial attitude. Using phrases like, "the EU is trying to punish us". This was just after Art.50 was triggered.
The only logical sense coming out of this is: we are leaving and it is their duty to make it easy . Oh, by the way, can we cherry pick what we want even if that breaks the four freedoms because - wait a minute - we are so ******* important.
How did we pick fruit before mass EU immigration ?
We had SAWS or a variant of it going back to when Adam was a lad.
Strangely, given a choice, Johnny Foreigner doesn't seem to want to come and do menial work for minimum wage while being charged for accommodation to boot.
We're constantly told that the fruit pickers are skilled workers yet any suggestion that they be paid more than minimum wage gets ignored.
By comparison the semi-skilled production workers at my employer get paid several pounds per hour above minimum wage for what seems to be rather easier work.
If my employer tried to pay production workers at minimum wage there would be 100% vacancies and 0% output.
I wonder if he'd get stories in the media and visits from politicians.
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Reads to me as if they’re pointing out the realities: a hard border means that Ireland has the responsibilities to maintain the SM’s integrity. They don’t appear to have Ireland’s back.
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
Right from the word go we have taken a very adversarial attitude. Using phrases like, "the EU is trying to punish us". This was just after Art.50 was triggered.
The only logical sense coming out of this is: we are leaving and it is their duty to make it easy . Oh, by the way, can we cherry pick what we want even if that breaks the four freedoms because - wait a minute - we are so ******* important.
I agree we have been inept and arrogant. But they do have a duty to consider the future relationship under Article 50.
My point is not whether their attitude is right or understandable. It may be both. But whether it is wise.
How did we pick fruit before mass EU immigration ?
Was there a lot less fruit being produced ?
The number of agricultural workers has massively increased during the last 15 years according to the ONS.
One reason is the increase in the growing season. Strawbs (your fav) used to have a 6 week season, now it is 9 months. Thanet Earth and Waitrose salad farms now harvest 12 months of the year. There has been a move from temporary labour to full time. People used to move farms dependent on what was in season, now they want the jobs that are 12 months of the year.
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Reads to me as if they’re pointing out the realities: a hard border means that Ireland has the responsibilities to maintain the SM’s integrity. They don’t appear to have Ireland’s back.
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
Right from the word go we have taken a very adversarial attitude. Using phrases like, "the EU is trying to punish us". This was just after Art.50 was triggered.
The only logical sense coming out of this is: we are leaving and it is their duty to make it easy . Oh, by the way, can we cherry pick what we want even if that breaks the four freedoms because - wait a minute - we are so ******* important.
I agree we have been inept and arrogant. But they do have a duty to consider the future relationship under Article 50.
My point is not whether their attitude is right or understandable. It may be both. But whether it is wise.
Anybody who doesn't realise that we are both to blame for this mess is a fanatic.
How did we pick fruit before mass EU immigration ?
Was there a lot less fruit being produced ?
The number of agricultural workers has massively increased during the last 15 years according to the ONS.
One reason is the increase in the growing season. Strawbs (your fav) used to have a 6 week season, now it is 9 months. Thanet Earth and Waitrose salad farms now harvest 12 months of the year. There has been a move from temporary labour to full time. People used to move farms dependent on what was in season, now they want the jobs that are 12 months of the year.
Which helps explain why productivity in the agricultural sector has fallen.
A cereal farmer will have high productivity but the new soft fruit peasantry less so.
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Reads to me as if they’re pointing out the realities: a hard border means that Ireland has the responsibilities to maintain the SM’s integrity. They don’t appear to have Ireland’s back.
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
Right from the word go we have taken a very adversarial attitude. Using phrases like, "the EU is trying to punish us". This was just after Art.50 was triggered.
The only logical sense coming out of this is: we are leaving and it is their duty to make it easy . Oh, by the way, can we cherry pick what we want even if that breaks the four freedoms because - wait a minute - we are so ******* important.
I agree we have been inept and arrogant. But they do have a duty to consider the future relationship under Article 50.
My point is not whether their attitude is right or understandable. It may be both. But whether it is wise.
Anybody who doesn't realise that we are both to blame for this mess is a fanatic.
The people who focus on blame are the fanatics. They need to make way for people who can dig us out of it.
So why when London housing is such a scarce and expensive resource is taxpayers money being used to pay people to stay there to do nothing when people who would add value in finance, tech, culture etc cannot afford to live there ?
I am sure people in finance and tech could afford to live there, the average salary in the City and for the likes of Google, Apple and Facebook is close to £100 000 a year.
People in culture and other areas of the economy maybe not
I suspect there might be a few London finance and tech workers wondering where their £100k job is.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
The time it takes to admit new members is constrained by how fast they can enact the EU acquis into local law. An immediately rejoining UK would have all of that as we have transposed it all into UK law. The only two parts that would need to be added are Schengen and the Euro. The Euro requires ERM membership, which is not mandatory (Sweden’s method of staying out indefinitely) and Schengen requires the other Schengen states to approve the state of the applicant’s border and internal security (which is why Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania are still not in Schengen). It would be easy for the UK to fudge staying out of both in practice.
And I think the EU would be delighted to have us rejoin after a car crash Brexit, pour encourager les autres.
If we hard Brexit, we might use that newly won regulatory freedom to diverge. Reversing that divergence would presumably be more problematic than if we had had a soft Brexit and had kept things very much aligned.
To be honest though I'm just speculating, I don't really have a clear sense of how easy rejoining would be. I think it would be wise if People's Vote group or similar groups started looking into this - at least as a backup option.
I can see divergence in terms of workplace regulation, but in terms of product specifications, I just don't buy it. Take electronics, pretty much every piece of consumer electronics in the world is CE, FCC, and UL certified. Are we really expecting to create our own standard that's different from those? The same is true of autos, and most industrial goods. Irrespective of whether there is a "shared rulebook" or not, we will effectively track EU regulation, because virtually nothing is manufactured just for local consumption.
I expect changes on environmental regulation. In some areas we might raise standards, and then would have to lower them to get back to the EU? Boris will want to change his lorry standards doubtless. On say fisheries I could imagine it might be very problematic to rejoin the CFP, perhaps having overfished just before re entry. I would be happier if serious think tanks were considering this...
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
Subdued growth is quite a way away from 'immediate and profound economic shock'.
Subdued growth + fall in pound + more QE + fall in credit rating.
Sure, it’s not apocalypse now, but it’s not the nirvana the masturbatory PB Brexiters think either.
Even Brexit economist loon Peter “shut down the North” Minford admits Brexit economy has not necessarily proceeded according to our advantage.
Not too worried about a hard brexit so long as the Germans send us curry wurst in the food parcels
Lets get it straight - It is a TORY BREXIT. Thye made the bed, they should lie on it.
No. This is a Brexit of the British people. It was the British people who voted Leave when the Tory leader backed and campaigned for Remain and Corbyn did sod all for Remain in terms of campaigning. It is May who has put forward a Chequers Deal compromise to the EU at the cost of losing Tory Leavers to UKIP and putting Corbyn ahead in the polls. Indeed Corbyn's Brexit plan is virtually identical to May's.
It is the LDs and the likes of Umunna and Soubry or on the other side UKIP and the likes of Boris, Mogg and Field who offer alternatives to the current Tory government's Brexit, Corbyn Labour absolutely does not in virtually any respect bar staying in 'a' customs union but not 'the' customs union
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
Subdued growth is quite a way away from 'immediate and profound economic shock'.
Subdued growth + fall in pound + more QE + fall in credit rating.
Sure, it’s not apocalypse now, but it’s not the nirvana the masturbatory PB Brexiters think either.
Even Brexit economist loon Peter “shut down the North” Minford admits Brexit economy has not necessarily proceeded according to our advantage.
Not too worried about a hard brexit so long as the Germans send us curry wurst in the food parcels
Lets get it straight - It is a TORY BREXIT. Thye made the bed, they should lie on it.
No. This is a Brexit of the British people. It was the British people who voted Leave when the Tory leader backed and campaigned for Remain and Corbyn did sod all for Remain in terms of campaigning. It is May who has put forward a Chequers Deal compromise to the EU at the cost of losing Tory Leavers to UKIP and putting Corbyn ahead in the polls. Indeed Corbyn's Brexit plan is virtually identical to May's.
It is the LDs and the likes of Umunna and Soubry or on the other side UKIP and the likes of Boris, Mogg and Field who offer alternatives to the current Tory government's Brexit, Corbyn Labour absolutely does not in virtually any respect bar staying in 'a' customs union but not 'the' customs union
Frankly, Labour is following - for now - the great policy of Historical Inactivity. Perfect !
It is the LDs and the likes of Umunna and Soubry or on the other side UKIP and the likes of Boris, Mogg and Field who offer alternatives to the current Tory government's Brexit, Corbyn Labour absolutely does not in virtually any respect bar staying in 'a' customs union but not 'the' customs union
What we're witnessing is the immovable object meeting the irresistible force.
The immovable object is Politicians' desire to want to tell people what they want to hear.
The irresistible force is the contradictory, irreconcilable and outright impossible instructions politicians believe the UK electorate has given them.
Something is going to have to give, I wish I knew what.
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
Subdued growth is quite a way away from 'immediate and profound economic shock'.
Subdued growth + fall in pound + more QE + fall in credit rating.
Sure, it’s not apocalypse now, but it’s not the nirvana the masturbatory PB Brexiters think either.
Even Brexit economist loon Peter “shut down the North” Minford admits Brexit economy has not necessarily proceeded according to our advantage.
Not too worried about a hard brexit so long as the Germans send us curry wurst in the food parcels
Lets get it straight - It is a TORY BREXIT. Thye made the bed, they should lie on it.
No. This is a Brexit of the British people. It was the British people who voted Leave when the Tory leader backed and campaigned for Remain and Corbyn did sod all for Remain in terms of campaigning. It is May who has put forward a Chequers Deal compromise to the EU at the cost of losing Tory Leavers to UKIP and putting Corbyn ahead in the polls. Indeed Corbyn's Brexit plan is virtually identical to May's.
It is the LDs and the likes of Umunna and Soubry or on the other side UKIP and the likes of Boris, Mogg and Field who offer alternatives to the current Tory government's Brexit, Corbyn Labour absolutely does not in virtually any respect bar staying in 'a' customs union but not 'the' customs union
Nope, this version of Brexit is brought to us by the Conservatives. They would be the first to take any credit if it's going well. They also have to take responsibility when things are more tricky. The price of power.
If I'm the Dems I'm looking for a white middle aged man as my Presidential nominee.
Someone so boring they make John Kerry look lie a crazy maverick.
I think general sexism had a serious effect on Hilary's chances - a couple of voting day vox pops had a serious impact on me with a female voter saying there is no way a woman should be president as they are too emotional. If Hilary Clinton is considered 'emotional' then, well, I don't know.
Charisma beats boring and Trump beats boring. The Democrats will not win with another establishment corporate dull centrist like Hillary nor with a coastal identity obsessed elitist. They either need a charismatic moderate who can connect with the rustbelt like Biden or a charismatic left populist like Sanders who can do the same. A charismatic youngster like Joe Kennedy would also have a shot but this is likely an election too early for him.
Aberdeenshire Fife Nottinghamshire Staffordshire Norfolk Herefordshire Norfolk Surrey West Sussex Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
From the Times today
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
Where from? Do you actually know the work involved? Do you know that most fruit farms pay a minimum of £9 an hour? Do you know that the maximum that the Fruit Farmers association says that they pay a maximum of £550/week (admittedly after several seasons experience of picking) and they still can't get enough people? A journalist tried it out recently, and got paid £9 for a days work and was told not to come back. And the farms are under contract to the supermarkets and they are told what the price will be for grade a fruit (nothing else is acceptable, and is returned) and the farms have to work out their costs on that basis.
Aberdeenshire Fife Nottinghamshire Staffordshire Norfolk Herefordshire Norfolk Surrey West Sussex Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
From the Times today
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
Where from? Do you actually know the work involved? Do you know that most fruit farms pay a minimum of £9 an hour? Do you know that the maximum that the Fruit Farmers association says that they pay a maximum of £550/week (admittedly after several seasons experience of picking) and they still can't get enough people? A journalist tried it out recently, and got paid £9 for a days work and was told not to come back. And the farms are under contract to the supermarkets and they are told what the price will be for grade a fruit (nothing else is acceptable, and is returned) and the farms have to work out their costs on that basis.
They paid someone £9 for a days work and they're wondering why they can't recruit? They're telling people who are willing to work not to come back and they're wondering why they can't recruit?
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit. Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
Subdued growth is quite a way away from 'immediate and profound economic shock'.
Subdued growth + fall in pound + more QE + fall in credit rating.
Sure, it’s not apocalypse now, but it’s not the nirvana the masturbatory PB Brexiters think either.
Even Brexit economist loon Peter “shut down the North” Minford admits Brexit economy has not necessarily proceeded according to our advantage.
Not too worried about a hard brexit so long as the Germans send us curry wurst in the food parcels
Lets get it straight - It is a TORY BREXIT. Thye made the bed, they should lie on it.
No. This is a Brexit of the British people. It was the British people who voted Leave when the Tory leader backed and campaigned for Remain and Corbyn did sod all for Remain in terms of campaigning. It is May who has put forward a Chequers Deal compromise to the EU at the cost of losing Tory Leavers to UKIP and putting Corbyn ahead in the polls. Indeed Corbyn's Brexit plan is virtually identical to May's.
It is the LDs and the likes of Umunna and Soubry or on the other side UKIP and the likes of Boris, Mogg and Field who offer alternatives to the current Tory government's Brexit, Corbyn Labour absolutely does not in virtually any respect bar staying in 'a' customs union but not 'the' customs union
Frankly, Labour is following - for now - the great policy of Historical Inactivity. Perfect !
Nope as the Tories will dump May in a year or two if she gets a transition but no FTA, earlier if not for Boris or Javid, then go for a harder Brexit to win back UKIP voters then back to 42% which beats Corbyn's 40%. Perfect
Right from the word go we have taken a very adversarial attitude. Using phrases like, "the EU is trying to punish us". This was just after Art.50 was triggered.
Accurate statement, and that is arguably a key element of the EU mindset still. EU leaders said it was a political necessity for them.
eg Francois Hollande, French President, Oct 2016, 6 months before Art. 50 was triggered:
"Hollande said firmness was absolutely necessary otherwise “the principles of the European Union will be questioned” and “other countries or other parties will be minded to leave the European Union in order to have the supposed benefits and no downsides or rules”."
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Reads to me as if they’re pointing out the realities: a hard border means that Ireland has the responsibilities to maintain the SM’s integrity. They don’t appear to have Ireland’s back.
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
Right from the word go we have taken a very adversarial attitude. Using phrases like, "the EU is trying to punish us". This was just after Art.50 was triggered.
The only logical sense coming out of this is: we are leaving and it is their duty to make it easy . Oh, by the way, can we cherry pick what we want even if that breaks the four freedoms because - wait a minute - we are so ******* important.
Aberdeenshire Fife Nottinghamshire Staffordshire Norfolk Herefordshire Norfolk Surrey West Sussex Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
From the Times today
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
Where from? Do you actually know the work involved? Do you know that most fruit farms pay a minimum of £9 an hour? Do you know that the maximum that the Fruit Farmers association says that they pay a maximum of £550/week (admittedly after several seasons experience of picking) and they still can't get enough people? A journalist tried it out recently, and got paid £9 for a days work and was told not to come back. And the farms are under contract to the supermarkets and they are told what the price will be for grade a fruit (nothing else is acceptable, and is returned) and the farms have to work out their costs on that basis.
Wait until we are free after Independence. Then we can import cheap fruits from anywhere and sod our farmers. In fact, solving the immigrant labour problem is to bankrupt the farmers first ! Also, gets ridof the subsidy problem.
Comments
Popular governor of a swing state. Good backstory.
Against that, he's perhaps a little moderate for the Democrats this year. And he's hardly done any pussy grabbing as far as I'm aware, which counts against him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrEFWv8aSQ8
Having seen the Democrats use the Primaries to elect a bunch of left wing nutjobs, I can't help wonder if Hickenlooper will struggle get traction with the Democratic base. But, I think he'd be a very good foil to Donald Trump.
Amazingly, the original Bard's Tale was the last good game made by Electronic Arts.
To veer approximately on-topic, I wonder if there'll be a very large field for the blues next time, as there was the reds last time. That does seem helpful for outsiders.
Good evening, everyone.
Mr. Borough, he could win again.
Given OGH's record on this one should take note though as a trading option in itself it looks a pretty good price.
If I were the Democratic Party, I would be looking at a candidate who could get independent and swing voters on side - the pro-Trump hardcore aren't going to shift so don't waste time and effort on them - go for the Independents and the swing voters.
I suppose it's always possible the GOP will split and try to run its own candidate against Trump although I suppose the analogy with 1912 has Trump more Roosevelt than Taft but no analogy stands up to close inspection. Perhaps a better analogy would be the Dixiecrats - would Trumpians stand against a GOP candidate?
The point at which parties become sensible is when they decide they want a leader the electorate will want not a leader the party wants. Both Blair and Cameron came to lead their parties simply because they could reach beyond the core.
The Democrats need to consider an individual who can reach beyond the base but doesn't even have to reach too far - pick up Michigan, Florida, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and it's all over.
It feels like happy families when the pb.com community are all backing similar longshots.
I imagine the mood will be very cheery if Jeremy Hunt or Rory Stewart are the next Con leader.
I'm torn as to whether hard Brexit makes rejoining more or less likely. It's clear the short-term disruption will be more, which favours rejoining. But the distance of travel to rejoining will be considerable, and the EU is not an organization that swiftly admits members. It would need a consensus across UK political parties given the timescales involved.
A softer Brexit means it's not as far to go, but on the other hand if it's soft enough - then what's the point in opening up a divisive debate? Norway has been happy enough with its lack of influence and semi-attached status for quite some time.
To be honest, should only be given to the certified morons that voted Leave!
Though if it does end up Trump v Sanders/Warren I could see Hickenlooper on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich (who could again challenge Trump in the GOP primaries) focused on moderates and independents. That is where his real value lies, not for the Democratic nomination
She speaks to a certain fringe of the party, and might feel she has the votes to run.
At those odds she only needs to have a go in the next contest to be well worth backing.
I think the field for left candidates may be more crowded, whereas Bernie had a pretty much free run last time and still didn't make it.
I suspect we will see more centrist candidates like Hickenlooper come out very strongly on issues like healthcare, perhaps with policies like Medicare for all, to pick up votes from the left.
And I think the EU would be delighted to have us rejoin after a car crash Brexit, pour encourager les autres.
If we leave with hard brexit there is no chance of us rejoining for 15 years at least. This why the ERG are happy.
I am very sorry to hear of that sad news. Your eulogy was truly inspiring and I am sure does him proud.Having lost both my parents, I can empathise with the deep void that bereavement brings to us. As a Spiritualist - and practising Medium - I have a different view of death to most people - and see it as a stage of development with the physical existence being replaced by a higher spiritual life in another dimension. That knowledge,however, does not take away the pain of losing a person's physical prescence.
Betting Post
Germany: pre-race ramble:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/07/germany-pre-race-2018.html
Backed Raikkonen each way for the win at 10. Mercedes have recently started a bit iffily. There have also been a few front end collisions. Raikkonen could benefit from either.
Tempted by a few other things too, though.
Reversing that divergence would presumably be more problematic than if we had had a soft Brexit and had kept things very much aligned.
To be honest though I'm just speculating, I don't really have a clear sense of how easy rejoining would be. I think it would be wise if People's Vote group or similar groups started looking into this - at least as a backup option.
It can only be because they’re the ones doing all the moaning these days.
Lemoaners seems to fit the bill.
Truss appears insane but as you say it now seems a necessary qualification. Hammond has been sidelined, if not disowned, clearly for being too level-headed and competent. Stewart is probably doing a good job on prisons but never it seems says anything unrelated to his department, possibly because it might sound too sensible.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524967/hm_treasury_analysis_the_immediate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf see page 50
In reality it will be 3.2% higher:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyq/qna
Aberdeenshire
Fife
Nottinghamshire
Staffordshire
Norfolk
Herefordshire
Norfolk
Surrey
West Sussex
Kent
The highest score for about three weeks.
A shortage of fruit pickers and political dithering has led to an “appalling” amount of Scottish produce being left to rot, MPs have been told.
Politicians travelled to Scottish fruit farms yesterday to investigate a looming crisis that could worsen if immigration rules are tightened after Brexit.
MPs also visited West Jordanstone Farm in Alyth, where the Marshall family has already had to leave crops to rot due to a lack of staff to pick them.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/fruit-rots-on-farms-as-eu-workers-stay-away-and-mps-dither-wcqxwg5wl
Now they're lining up with big business and the EU.
Try to snap out of it because it doesn't do much for your mental health. We're beginning to feel sorry for you now!
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20180721/281509341971841
Varadkar's bessie mates are soon to be subject to one of his rants. Merkel key ally says "Border to be hardest in Europe." "Not Germany's problem, Ireland can sort it out." Germany is not paying. Then the French waded in helpfully as well.
So what is the analysis. Pressure being put on Ireland to support a new EU proposal or sage advice from your friends because no deal is looking the best bet at the moment?
Sees 'Lemoaner' and 'Euro-loon' are being flung round.
Sighs sadly and wonders what the mods are doing, given all their awful threats in the past over such terms.
Yawns loudly.
Goes back to the cricket.
Is 'no strawberry left behind' now some Scottish farming obsession ?
In reality, growth is subdued because of Brexit.
Even the headbangers admit growth is repressed, albeit some suspect a Treasury plot.
We are last in Europe, having been prior to 2016 near first.
You have to carry responsibility for that.
Rebalancing the economy into something sustainable is far more important than an extra 0.1% on nominal GDP.
Or do you think that the UK could continue to have a £100bn annual current account deficit on a permanent basis ?
Warren and Sanders combined already comfortably top the Democratic primary polls even if Biden is nominally ahead
You've clearly forgotten the first rule of PB Moderation.
Sure, it’s not apocalypse now, but it’s not the nirvana the masturbatory PB Brexiters think either.
Even Brexit economist loon Peter “shut down the North” Minford admits Brexit economy has not necessarily proceeded according to our advantage.
Stick to counting strawberries, unless Tesco have banned you already for being some kind of pest.
Don't forget either Perot got 19% as a third party candidate in 1992
I am also on Kasich as a potential primary challenger to Trump, and also Evan McMullin, who was quite successful as 3rd party candidate in Utah, but also may Primary Trump. Both have hinted at running. McMullins twitter is worth following, he has a CIA background and really loathes Trump.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/regionallabourmarket/july2018#summary-of-latest-regional-labour-market-statistics
So why when London housing is such a scarce and expensive resource is taxpayers money being used to pay people to stay there to do nothing when people who would add value in finance, tech, culture etc cannot afford to live there ?
Does anyone actually doubt that Tubbs et al would have voted Brexit?
As ever, my enemy's enemy is my friend.
The expansion of the British soft fruit industry is a fairly recent phenomenon, and includes a lot more polytunnel produce to extend the season.
People in culture and other areas of the economy maybe not
But note they also say that Britain will be in a less favourable position than Russia vis a vis trade with the EU.
Now this may all be legally correct. And it may very largely be the result of Britain’s inept and arrogant handling of Brexit.
But the EU really ought to ask itself whether it makes sense to humiliate a former member, the world’s 5th (for now) largest economy, member of the Security Council etc. Humiliating countries, however much they may be at fault, does not usually end well. Nor does it reflect well on the EU. And while they may not care now, they may find that this could lead to unforeseen and unpleasant consequences in future.
Britain is not going to disappear. Just as we would be well advised to adopt a more grown up approach to our relationship with the EU, so would the EU be well advised to do the same vis-a-vi Britain.
Someone so boring they make John Kerry look lie a crazy maverick.
I think general sexism had a serious effect on Hilary's chances - a couple of voting day vox pops had a serious impact on me with a female voter saying there is no way a woman should be president as they are too emotional. If Hilary Clinton is considered 'emotional' then, well, I don't know.
Strangely, given a choice, Johnny Foreigner doesn't seem to want to come and do menial work for minimum wage while being charged for accommodation to boot.
The number of agricultural workers has massively increased during the last 15 years according to the ONS.
To Mr Varadkar hard border means no tariffs or customs at all including electronic manifests, his position could only be satisfied by the UK staying in the EU completely. EEA+CU does not satisfy. The EU are in possession of a report that the high tech border is feasible over time. So I read it as pressure being applied so that no physical infrastructure at the border, but electronic customs docs and points of checking well away from the border should be acceptable. i.e not the hardest border in Ireland.
The only logical sense coming out of this is: we are leaving and it is their duty to make it easy . Oh, by the way, can we cherry pick what we want even if that breaks the four freedoms because - wait a minute - we are so ******* important.
By comparison the semi-skilled production workers at my employer get paid several pounds per hour above minimum wage for what seems to be rather easier work.
If my employer tried to pay production workers at minimum wage there would be 100% vacancies and 0% output.
I wonder if he'd get stories in the media and visits from politicians.
My point is not whether their attitude is right or understandable. It may be both. But whether it is wise.
There has been a move from temporary labour to full time. People used to move farms dependent on what was in season, now they want the jobs that are 12 months of the year.
A cereal farmer will have high productivity but the new soft fruit peasantry less so.
It is the LDs and the likes of Umunna and Soubry or on the other side UKIP and the likes of Boris, Mogg and Field who offer alternatives to the current Tory government's Brexit, Corbyn Labour absolutely does not in virtually any respect bar staying in 'a' customs union but not 'the' customs union
The immovable object is Politicians' desire to want to tell people what they want to hear.
The irresistible force is the contradictory, irreconcilable and outright impossible instructions politicians believe the UK electorate has given them.
Something is going to have to give, I wish I knew what.
They're telling people who are willing to work not to come back and they're wondering why they can't recruit?
Screw them then. Why should we care?
eg Francois Hollande, French President, Oct 2016, 6 months before Art. 50 was triggered:
"“There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price, otherwise we will be in negotiations that will not end well and, inevitably, will have economic and human consequences,” the French president said."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/uk-must-pay-price-for-brexit-says-francois-hollande
.. pour encourager les autres:
"Hollande said firmness was absolutely necessary otherwise “the principles of the European Union will be questioned” and “other countries or other parties will be minded to leave the European Union in order to have the supposed benefits and no downsides or rules”."
Similar statements were made by other leaders.
And the M Barnier included a demand to be able to punish unilaterally in the EU submission this spring.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43062112
He had to withdraw it and apologise.
(Hope I have my blockquotes correct).
In fact, solving the immigrant labour problem is to bankrupt the farmers first ! Also, gets ridof the subsidy problem.