That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
Ah, the first time Lidl shopper.
Their pizza is utter shit. Their olive oil is good. Their organic fair trade freeze dried coffee is, and I understand the caveat here, the best instant coffee you can buy.
In tomatoes season the regularly have the best tinned tomatoes at unbelievably low prices.
But the middle aisle is where the joy is at. What random awesome thing can you buy this week?
it didn’t disappoint.
"You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe."
You can't though can you? You might be able to buy the pizza and (once in a blue moon) a canoe but it's the everyday basics in between that are often missing. I don't know how people manage to do their weekly shop there, unless they have a very limited pallette and/or rarely cook from scratch.
On the plus side: smoked salmon, gravlax, wine and, as noted before, olive oil is good value there and they often have interesting continental foods you don't often see elsewhere.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite that will be 50 or 60 votes at most which is not enough in an electorate of more than 300. That's why they daren't stick the knife in May: they'd be stuck with Hammond, Hunt or Javid.
Uh no. 120 odd Tory MPs voted Leave as did most Tory seats and even a few Remainers like Soames backed Boris last time. If there is a VONC now May likely survives for the time being but with maybe 100+ Tory MPs voting against her
Estimates of ERG membership vary between about 30 and 50. There's a difference between MPs (and people generally) who voted Leave because more money for the NHS seems like a good idea or bananas are the wrong shape, and those who feel very strongly about it -- strongly enough to let Brexit overrule doubts about Mogg's inexperience or Boris's unsoundness. Those who feel strongly enough to join the ERG, for instance. Even if you add in a few more for Gove and Davis, we are still looking at a final two BINO-ists or Remainers.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
I believe the PB Tory term is “doing an Adonis”.
Of course, HYUFD is the arch or ur PB Tory which begs the question, whither PB Toryism now?
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite that will be 50 or 60 votes at most which is not enough in an electorate of more than 300. That's why they daren't stick the knife in May: they'd be stuck with Hammond, Hunt or Javid.
Uh no. 120 odd Tory MPs voted Leave as did most Tory seats and even a few Remainers like Soames backed Boris last time. If there is a VONC now May likely survives for the time being but with maybe 100+ Tory MPs voting against her
Estimates of ERG membership vary between about 30 and 50. There's a difference between MPs (and people generally) who voted Leave because more money for the NHS seems like a good idea or bananas are the wrong shape, and those who feel very strongly about it -- strongly enough to let Brexit overrule doubts about Mogg's inexperience or Boris's unsoundness. Those who feel strongly enough to join the ERG, for instance. Even if you add in a few more for Gove and Davis, we are still looking at a final two BINO-ists or Remainers.
Where are those numbers from? They had 62 signatories to a letter in February this year.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
I believe the PB Tory term is “doing an Adonis”.
Of course, HYUFD is the arch or ur PB Tory which begs the question, whither PB Toryism now?
After nearly ten years in power, in a democratic system, it would be worrying if the government still commanded widespread support. For democracy to flourish we need options and we need government to change hands so those involved can refresh, reform and rethink. For the last 40 years we've had a problem in that there's never really been a time when both parties have been fit to hold power.
That said, this level of shambles is also quite rare, fortunately.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
If his future depends on making a good speech then he's in real trouble.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
May has never been able to make decisions. She is an administrator not an innovator. She listens to whoever shouts loudest and that, for many months, was the Brexiters.
So have the Remainers upped their decibel level? No. It was the now unignorable deadline that drowned out every other voice and hence is what she is responding to.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite that will be 50 or 60 votes at most which is not enough in an electorate of more than 300. That's why they daren't stick the knife in May: they'd be stuck with Hammond, Hunt or Javid.
Pretty cowardly of them. Do they believe in a hard Brexit or not? If they do, make a stand even if they lose.
That would be virtue signalling, surely? They're going to use the tactics which give them the best chance of succeeding, and that means voting down May's Brexit in the commons, not trying to unseat her.
I think is is pretty obvious that the ERG don't want to challenge May right now, they want to wait until the EU start tearing apart her deal. Once this happens and it is clear that May's deal won't work, panic will set in and I think May could easily lose a VONC. At the moment she is pretending to have the one Brexit plan that works which is enough to keep the Remainers and generally self-interested Tory MPs on board, but if her plan is cactus then what is the point of her?
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
May has never been able to make decisions. She is an administrator not an innovator. She listens to whoever shouts loudest and that, for many months, was the Brexiters.
So have the Remainers upped their decibel level? No. It was the now unignorable deadline that drowned out every other voice and hence is what she is responding to.
I think May is just a person who relies on someone else for opinions. When is was Nick and Fi, she was getting Hard Brexit input. When they went, she went for Robbins and now does whatever he says. I don't think she has any firm opinions of her own which is why she is easy to move, once you have her ear.
Estimates of ERG membership vary between about 30 and 50. There's a difference between MPs (and people generally) who voted Leave because more money for the NHS seems like a good idea or bananas are the wrong shape, and those who feel very strongly about it -- strongly enough to let Brexit overrule doubts about Mogg's inexperience or Boris's unsoundness. Those who feel strongly enough to join the ERG, for instance. Even if you add in a few more for Gove and Davis, we are still looking at a final two BINO-ists or Remainers.
Where are those numbers from? They had 62 signatories to a letter in February this year.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
I believe the PB Tory term is “doing an Adonis”.
Of course, HYUFD is the arch or ur PB Tory which begs the question, whither PB Toryism now?
After nearly ten years in power, in a democratic system, it would be worrying if the government still commanded widespread support. For democracy to flourish we need options and we need government to change hands so those involved can refresh, reform and rethink. For the last 40 years we've had a problem in that there's never really been a time when both parties have been fit to hold power.
That said, this level of shambles is also quite rare, fortunately.
Though in fact - I suspect it just feels so much longer - this govt has been in office for just over 8 years. At the same period (1987) Mrs T had won her second landslide victory.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property.
We do not want an integrated legal system, though, do we.
There’s a reason London is the world’s legal capital.
With my pedant's hat on - I think you mean 'the world's leading centre for legal matters.'
Unless the One World Government has been promulgated and headquartered in London without my noticing.
It has. Sorry, we should have let you know.
So why the f*** are we still arguing about Brexit?
You have to give the people distractions or they might be worried about the secret One World Government!
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
Surely the bigger point, as Mrs Thatcher observed - if a government is not behind in the polls before mid-term its not doing it right. To govern is to choose and inevitably some of those choices will be unpopular - better to get them out of the way sooner rather than later.
The government has (finally) chosen - on Brexit, whatever the choice, it was bound to cheese off a substantial chunk of the electorate. But provided we exit the EU, and FoM does genuinely end (if Mrs May's planning to backtrack she's going about it rather unequivocally "foM will end" - not much wriggle room there) - then I suspect next March attention will turn to the post-Brexit plan. I suspect the electorate is reacting more to a squabbling and divided Tory party than the finer details of the government's White Paper.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
I believe the PB Tory term is “doing an Adonis”.
Of course, HYUFD is the arch or ur PB Tory which begs the question, whither PB Toryism now?
After nearly ten years in power, in a democratic system, it would be worrying if the government still commanded widespread support. For democracy to flourish we need options and we need government to change hands so those involved can refresh, reform and rethink. For the last 40 years we've had a problem in that there's never really been a time when both parties have been fit to hold power.
That said, this level of shambles is also quite rare, fortunately.
Though in fact - I suspect it just feels so much longer - this govt has been in office for just over 8 years. At the same period (1987) Mrs T had won her second landslide victory.
Mrs Thatcher must be the luckiest prime minister in history. Not just for the normal political or military reasons ("her choice of enemies") but also because in the 1980s life just got better thanks to what we might call the white heat of the technological revolution if that had not already been misapplied to the 1960s.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Just chilling in the AC before the match.
Have you seen the Thai cave boys in hospital? Why are they always wearing facemasks?
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Fox jr supporting Croatia, France for me. I love Ngolo Kante and he will control that Croat midfield. Strange to watch a match as a neutral. A lot of the fun of football is the naked partisanship!
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
Surely the bigger point, as Mrs Thatcher observed - if a government is not behind in the polls before mid-term its not doing it right. To govern is to choose and inevitably some of those choices will be unpopular - better to get them out of the way sooner rather than later.
The government has (finally) chosen - on Brexit, whatever the choice, it was bound to cheese off a substantial chunk of the electorate. But provided we exit the EU, and FoM does genuinely end (if Mrs May's planning to backtrack she's going about it rather unequivocally "foM will end" - not much wriggle room there) - then I suspect next March attention will turn to the post-Brexit plan. I suspect the electorate is reacting more to a squabbling and divided Tory party than the finer details of the government's White Paper.
Think that’s absolutely right. At least I hope it is.....
Re Croatia, given their recent comments (just after the game) accusing us of arrogance, I’m intrigued as to how anyone here is supporting them today. There’s also been controversy over the whole ‘coming home’ thing, from those outside this country. People let twenty two years ago by from Euro 96 onwards and decided to regard it as only a terrible thing this year. Really odd.
Because otherwise, you have to support the idea of France having two stars on their shirt, versus one on ours.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Just chilling in the AC before the match.
Have you seen the Thai cave boys in hospital? Why are they always wearing facemasks?
No idea really. Presumably some microbial risk as they seem quarantined.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Just chilling in the AC before the match.
Have you seen the Thai cave boys in hospital? Why are they always wearing facemasks?
They had pneumonia - its common practice in the Far East to wear a facemark if you yourself are infectious (even for a common cold).
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
Surely the bigger point, as Mrs Thatcher observed - if a government is not behind in the polls before mid-term its not doing it right. To govern is to choose and inevitably some of those choices will be unpopular - better to get them out of the way sooner rather than later.
The government has (finally) chosen - on Brexit, whatever the choice, it was bound to cheese off a substantial chunk of the electorate. But provided we exit the EU, and FoM does genuinely end (if Mrs May's planning to backtrack she's going about it rather unequivocally "foM will end" - not much wriggle room there) - then I suspect next March attention will turn to the post-Brexit plan. I suspect the electorate is reacting more to a squabbling and divided Tory party than the finer details of the government's White Paper.
Bit of both I suspect, given they were squabbling and looking incompetent before the decision and still leading, and undoubtedly a sizable chunk of the party don't like the choice. But it is not a calamity to be behind when you are in government, and it is not unsalvagable for the party even if May's plan goes through. The fantasy that all would be a ok if May chose no deal or hard brexit is just that, a fantasy.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
I’m not quite convinced the entire Balkans are supporting Croatia, as the first map seems to suggest. And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
[Being finickity, (I am available as a proofreader, incidentally, for anyone wanting such), dialogue should have 'ue' at the end unless you're being literally Yankee doodle, and the L was missing from 'complex'].
Mr Dancer, shouldn't that be 'finicky?'
I think he’s been corrupted by the American ‘persnickety’.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
Surely the bigger point, as Mrs Thatcher observed - if a government is not behind in the polls before mid-term its not doing it right. To govern is to choose and inevitably some of those choices will be unpopular - better to get them out of the way sooner rather than later.
The government has (finally) chosen - on Brexit, whatever the choice, it was bound to cheese off a substantial chunk of the electorate. But provided we exit the EU, and FoM does genuinely end (if Mrs May's planning to backtrack she's going about it rather unequivocally "foM will end" - not much wriggle room there) - then I suspect next March attention will turn to the post-Brexit plan. I suspect the electorate is reacting more to a squabbling and divided Tory party than the finer details of the government's White Paper.
The fantasy that all would be a ok if May chose no deal or hard brexit is just that, a fantasy.
The consequences would trash the Tory reputation for a generation - Tories should be pragmatic and practical, a brake on the wilder enthusiasms and latest fads - when they get into 'ideology' it ends in tears.
Estimates of ERG membership vary between about 30 and 50. There's a difference between MPs (and people generally) who voted Leave because more money for the NHS seems like a good idea or bananas are the wrong shape, and those who feel very strongly about it -- strongly enough to let Brexit overrule doubts about Mogg's inexperience or Boris's unsoundness. Those who feel strongly enough to join the ERG, for instance. Even if you add in a few more for Gove and Davis, we are still looking at a final two BINO-ists or Remainers.
Where are those numbers from? They had 62 signatories to a letter in February this year.
Wikipedia has sourced over 60 MPs making expense claims for ERG so think your figures are a little wonky at '30-50'. 62 signatories in May not including any current (or recent former) government MPs so they would appear to have a base of 60-70. 100 votes will get you 2nd place and through to the membership so would expect the right leaver candidate could manage that (though likely someone more like Penny rather than Jacob)
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
I’m not quite convinced the entire Balkans are supporting Croatia, as the first map seems to suggest. And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
I suspect quite a few in Scotland support France too - Andrew Neil, for one.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
May has never been able to make decisions. She is an administrator not an innovator. She listens to whoever shouts loudest and that, for many months, was the Brexiters.
So have the Remainers upped their decibel level? No. It was the now unignorable deadline that drowned out every other voice and hence is what she is responding to.
I think May is just a person who relies on someone else for opinions. When is was Nick and Fi, she was getting Hard Brexit input. When they went, she went for Robbins and now does whatever he says. I don't think she has any firm opinions of her own which is why she is easy to move, once you have her ear.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
I’m not quite convinced the entire Balkans are supporting Croatia, as the first map seems to suggest. And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
Hmmm. Would our kind of football be beneath Venusians? Football 'on' Venus might be rather different: it's a bit too hot on the surface, and the pressure would crush and melt the ball - and I'm unsure FIFA have a rule for that.
But due to that pressure, balls filled with 'air' might 'float' in the atmosphere, allowing for a three-dimensional football to be played. Unfortunately that might also make the offside rule even harder to explain ...
However, it is likely that any lifeforms that would play such a game might fly (or 'swim' in gas) rather than walk, and therefore it might best be called wingball.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
I’m not quite convinced the entire Balkans are supporting Croatia, as the first map seems to suggest. And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
Hmmm. Would our kind of football be beneath Venusians? Football 'on' Venus might be rather different: it's a bit too hot on the surface, and the pressure would crush and melt the ball - and I'm unsure FIFA have a rule for that.
But due to that pressure, balls filled with 'air' might 'float' in the atmosphere, allowing for a three-dimensional football to be played. Unfortunately that might also make the offside rule even harder to explain ...
However, it is likely that any lifeforms that would play such a game might fly (or 'swim' in gas) rather than walk, and therefore it might best be called wingball.
Please don't tell me I'm overthinking this.
If they are only supporters, I’m not sure such considerations are particularly important.
And consider they will have to enjoy an environment of superheated acid merely to survive, when thinking about whom they might be predisposed to support.
Estimates of ERG membership vary between about 30 and 50. There's a difference between MPs (and people generally) who voted Leave because more money for the NHS seems like a good idea or bananas are the wrong shape, and those who feel very strongly about it -- strongly enough to let Brexit overrule doubts about Mogg's inexperience or Boris's unsoundness. Those who feel strongly enough to join the ERG, for instance. Even if you add in a few more for Gove and Davis, we are still looking at a final two BINO-ists or Remainers.
Where are those numbers from? They had 62 signatories to a letter in February this year.
Wikipedia has sourced over 60 MPs making expense claims for ERG so think your figures are a little wonky at '30-50'. 62 signatories in May not including any current (or recent former) government MPs so they would appear to have a base of 60-70. 100 votes will get you 2nd place and through to the membership so would expect the right leaver candidate could manage that (though likely someone more like Penny rather than Jacob)
It looks like some MPs have only claimed once or twice, so probably they left.
In any case, not all ERG members are pro-Brexit. The BBC has: Of the Cabinet attendees who have claimed allowances for the ERG, six were pro-Leave while the other three, David Gauke, Sajid Javid and Brandon Lewis, campaigned for Remain. Of the 45 total MPs identified through claims, 33 were pro-Leave and 12 pro-Remain.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Fox jr supporting Croatia, France for me. I love Ngolo Kante and he will control that Croat midfield. Strange to watch a match as a neutral. A lot of the fun of football is the naked partisanship!
Quebec will certainly be supporting France, as will Serbia, the French part of Belgium and maybe much of North Africa. So while most of the world will be Croatian for the day, that will not be all the world
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
I’m not quite convinced the entire Balkans are supporting Croatia, as the first map seems to suggest. And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
Hmmm. Would our kind of football be beneath Venusians? Football 'on' Venus might be rather different: it's a bit too hot on the surface, and the pressure would crush and melt the ball - and I'm unsure FIFA have a rule for that.
But due to that pressure, balls filled with 'air' might 'float' in the atmosphere, allowing for a three-dimensional football to be played. Unfortunately that might also make the offside rule even harder to explain ...
However, it is likely that any lifeforms that would play such a game might fly (or 'swim' in gas) rather than walk, and therefore it might best be called wingball.
Please don't tell me I'm overthinking this.
If they are only supporters, I’m not sure such considerations are particularly important.
And consider they will have to enjoy an environment of superheated acid merely to survive, when thinking about whom they might be predisposed to support.
A good point. But it does pose a question: is there any major country where football (soccer) is very popular to watch, but there are very few players or teams?
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand. However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
A Labour government under Corbyn could not be worse than the present shambles under the anti-economy, anti-British, anti-society Conservatives. You Tories have thrown away your trump card.
A strange reference to Hugh Gaitskell in the video given that he died in January 1963. In the intervening ten years before joining the EEC , many who had been Anti-Marketeers had become committed supporters of joining - including his widow Dora Gaitskell.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
Agreed but some will do it to protest and/or because they think it will make no difference in their seat (which would be true for many).
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
I'd argue that it's just symbolic. UKIP are a spent force. But who else to register one's support for if trying to make a point? As others have said, the Tories aren't particularly attractive electorally, for obvious reasons. I don't find the 'Oooo Jeremy Corbyn = Venezuela' argument particularly compelling in terms of retaining my vote.
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
I’m not quite convinced the entire Balkans are supporting Croatia, as the first map seems to suggest. And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
Hmmm. Would our kind of football be beneath Venusians? Football 'on' Venus might be rather different: it's a bit too hot on the surface, and the pressure would crush and melt the ball - and I'm unsure FIFA have a rule for that.
But due to that pressure, balls filled with 'air' might 'float' in the atmosphere, allowing for a three-dimensional football to be played. Unfortunately that might also make the offside rule even harder to explain ...
However, it is likely that any lifeforms that would play such a game might fly (or 'swim' in gas) rather than walk, and therefore it might best be called wingball.
Please don't tell me I'm overthinking this.
If they are only supporters, I’m not sure such considerations are particularly important.
And consider they will have to enjoy an environment of superheated acid merely to survive, when thinking about whom they might be predisposed to support.
A good point. But it does pose a question: is there any major country where football (soccer) is very popular to watch, but there are very few players or teams?
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
I’m not quite convinced the entire Balkans are supporting Croatia, as the first map seems to suggest. And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
Hmmm. Would our kind of football be beneath Venusians? Football 'on' Venus might be rather different: it's a bit too hot on the surface, and the pressure would crush and melt the ball - and I'm unsure FIFA have a rule for that.
But due to that pressure, balls filled with 'air' might 'float' in the atmosphere, allowing for a three-dimensional football to be played. Unfortunately that might also make the offside rule even harder to explain ...
However, it is likely that any lifeforms that would play such a game might fly (or 'swim' in gas) rather than walk, and therefore it might best be called wingball.
Please don't tell me I'm overthinking this.
If they are only supporters, I’m not sure such considerations are particularly important.
And consider they will have to enjoy an environment of superheated acid merely to survive, when thinking about whom they might be predisposed to support.
A good point. But it does pose a question: is there any major country where football (soccer) is very popular to watch, but there are very few players or teams?
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand. However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
A Labour government under Corbyn could not be worse than the present shambles under the anti-economy, anti-British, anti-society Conservatives. You Tories have thrown away your trump card.
The Trump card for the Tories to win a 4th term against the odds was getting Brexiteers behind them. Fear of Corbyn alone May not be enough if the Right splits
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
It's hard to see where Rees Mogg and the other loons diverge with Farage.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand. However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
A Labour government under Corbyn could not be worse than the present shambles under the anti-economy, anti-British, anti-society Conservatives. You Tories have thrown away your trump card.
The trump card for the Tories to win a 4th term against the odds was getting Brexiteers behind them. Fear of Corbyn alone may not be enough if the Right splits.
Of course if Corbyn does beat a soft Brexit Tory leader it is almost certain a hard Brexiteer will take over as Tory Leader of the Opposition
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
I'd argue that it's just symbolic. UKIP are a spent force. But who else to register one's support for if trying to make a point? As others have said, the Tories aren't particularly attractive electorally, for obvious reasons. I don't find the 'Oooo Jeremy Corbyn = Venezuela' argument particularly compelling in terms of retaining my vote.
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
Well, when May was for hard Brexit many of the high profile posters on here spent their entire time predicting her downfall and saying how terrible she was - now she has sold out they suddenly think she is wonderful.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
Nonsense - UKIP aren't winning any seats - it's a pure protest vote, and if there were an election today it would be very clear what people were trying to say with it. But we're a long way from an election, and the Tories can't be stupid enough to let May front the next one.
As I was walking to the shop in this darndedly unBritish heat, I pondered an interesting (and perhaps ridiculous) question:
Might Boris jump ship to UKIP?
Yes, it seems ridiculous. But UKIP are currently rudderless, and Farage is very much damaged goods. Boris stands little chance (IMO) of becoming Conservative leader (*), and has an ego the size of a mountain. He's also a proven winner, has held high office, and knows lots of useful people.
Could he switch over to UKIP, become its leader, and take it on as a more right-wing Conservative party, professionally run (which they were not before) ? He could mould the party into something quite interesting electorally.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
I'd argue that it's just symbolic. UKIP are a spent force. But who else to register one's support for if trying to make a point? As others have said, the Tories aren't particularly attractive electorally, for obvious reasons. I don't find the 'Oooo Jeremy Corbyn = Venezuela' argument particularly compelling in terms of retaining my vote.
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
It's clear that Tory fortunes depend on them getting their base out in GE 2022(?). That's unlikely to happen with May at the helm.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
I'd argue that it's just symbolic. UKIP are a spent force. But who else to register one's support for if trying to make a point? As others have said, the Tories aren't particularly attractive electorally, for obvious reasons. I don't find the 'Oooo Jeremy Corbyn = Venezuela' argument particularly compelling in terms of retaining my vote.
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
It's clear that Tory fortunes depend on them getting their base out in GE 2022(?). That's unlikely to happen with May at the helm.
I don't think very many people expect her to be. The question is about when, and in what circumstances she leaves the top position. Now, to precipitate a change in governmental direction, or later (say March 2019) to mark the next phase of the Brexit process and a less radical change in direction. Either way, the work to get the base back on board will take quite a while.
As I was walking to the shop in this darndedly unBritish heat, I pondered an interesting (and perhaps ridiculous) question:
Might Boris jump ship to UKIP?
Yes, it seems ridiculous. But UKIP are currently rudderless, and Farage is very much damaged goods. Boris stands little chance (IMO) of becoming Conservative leader (*), and has an ego the size of a mountain. He's also a proven winner, has held high office, and knows lots of useful people.
Could he switch over to UKIP, become its leader, and take it on as a more right-wing Conservative party, professionally run (which they were not before) ? He could mould the party into something quite interesting electorally.
(*) get your bets on now ...
Like all the Lab non-corbynites very unhappy with the direction of things, he wouldn't want to lose the brand name of Tory.
As I was walking to the shop in this darndedly unBritish heat, I pondered an interesting (and perhaps ridiculous) question:
Might Boris jump ship to UKIP?
Yes, it seems ridiculous. But UKIP are currently rudderless, and Farage is very much damaged goods. Boris stands little chance (IMO) of becoming Conservative leader (*), and has an ego the size of a mountain. He's also a proven winner, has held high office, and knows lots of useful people.
Could he switch over to UKIP, become its leader, and take it on as a more right-wing Conservative party, professionally run (which they were not before) ? He could mould the party into something quite interesting electorally.
(*) get your bets on now ...
Unlikely, unless we get a Canada 1993 style situation and UKIP overtakes the Tories as the Reform Party overtook the Progressive Conservatives.
As a result though the Liberals were in power for 13 years until the Progressive Conservatives and the Reform Party's successor the Canadian Alliance merged to form the Conservative Party of Canada which won the 2006 Canadian general election under Stephen Harper
As I was walking to the shop in this darndedly unBritish heat, I pondered an interesting (and perhaps ridiculous) question:
Might Boris jump ship to UKIP?
Yes, it seems ridiculous. But UKIP are currently rudderless, and Farage is very much damaged goods. Boris stands little chance (IMO) of becoming Conservative leader (*), and has an ego the size of a mountain. He's also a proven winner, has held high office, and knows lots of useful people.
Could he switch over to UKIP, become its leader, and take it on as a more right-wing Conservative party, professionally run (which they were not before) ? He could mould the party into something quite interesting electorally.
(*) get your bets on now ...
It would be interesting. If I were him I'd do it on a 'rejoin the Tories/merge with them when they come to their senses' narrative. Keep the door open to returning. Ken Livingstone managed to get back into Labour after standing against them after all.
As I was walking to the shop in this darndedly unBritish heat, I pondered an interesting (and perhaps ridiculous) question:
Might Boris jump ship to UKIP?
Yes, it seems ridiculous. But UKIP are currently rudderless, and Farage is very much damaged goods. Boris stands little chance (IMO) of becoming Conservative leader (*), and has an ego the size of a mountain. He's also a proven winner, has held high office, and knows lots of useful people.
Could he switch over to UKIP, become its leader, and take it on as a more right-wing Conservative party, professionally run (which they were not before) ? He could mould the party into something quite interesting electorally.
(*) get your bets on now ...
Like all the Lab non-corbynites very unhappy with the direction of things, he wouldn't want to lose the brand name of Tory.
That will be a big reason for him not to do it. On the other hand, he is a big fan of Churchill, who flitted between the Conservatives and Liberals. His time as Foreign Secretary was hardly filled with glory, and the chances of him getting another high office within the Conservatives are limited. If he can't be PM, what else is there for him to fill his ego with? What else will get his face on the front page and TV screens?
Taking over a party and moulding it might well appeal to him: the chance too make history like his hero. It'll also be a new challenge for someone who has rather admirably done many different things (if not always successfully).
I'm not saying this will happen; just that it might appeal to him.
Ah, so I won’t be the only PBer cheering on France today I see foxy is as well. Also, wonder what Rita Panahai (an Australian woman) has against the the French. Has there been any massive Aussie v French rivarly recently?
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
I'd argue that it's just symbolic. UKIP are a spent force. But who else to register one's support for if trying to make a point? As others have said, the Tories aren't particularly attractive electorally, for obvious reasons. I don't find the 'Oooo Jeremy Corbyn = Venezuela' argument particularly compelling in terms of retaining my vote.
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
It's clear that Tory fortunes depend on them getting their base out in GE 2022(?). That's unlikely to happen with May at the helm.
Ah, so I won’t be the only PBer cheering on France today I see foxy is as well. Also, wonder what Rita Panahai (an Australian woman) has against the the French. Has there been any massive Aussie v French rivarly recently?
Rita Panahai sounds like an Indian name to me
France and Britain had serious colonial rivalry in southern and eastern India up until the 1790s.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
I'd argue that it's just symbolic. UKIP are a spent force. But who else to register one's support for if trying to make a point? As others have said, the Tories aren't particularly attractive electorally, for obvious reasons. I don't find the 'Oooo Jeremy Corbyn = Venezuela' argument particularly compelling in terms of retaining my vote.
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
According to HYUFD logic, surely people who "switched to Blair" can't be REAL Tories??
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
Any 'Conservative' who moves over to be a member of, or supporter of, UKIP is not just buying into whatever UKIP's current Brexit policy is. They're also buying into the whole raft of other policies that make UKIP an anathema to many.
I'd argue that it's just symbolic. UKIP are a spent force. But who else to register one's support for if trying to make a point? As others have said, the Tories aren't particularly attractive electorally, for obvious reasons. I don't find the 'Oooo Jeremy Corbyn = Venezuela' argument particularly compelling in terms of retaining my vote.
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
According to HYUFD logic, surely people who "switched to Blair" can't be REAL Tories??
Tory leaning swing voters maybe but not Tory loyalists no
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
According to HYUFD logic, surely people who "switched to Blair" can't be REAL Tories??
I suppose he could argue that the act of switching implied that they had ceased to be real Tories. As someone who stopped voting Labour on a regular basis post-1996 , I have some sympathy for his views here - though in my case I refused to follow the Blairite drift to the centre-Right and would argue that New Labour had ceased to be Real Labour!
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left ory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
The problem for the Tories is the percentage of those soft Brexiteers and Remainers who were not voting Tory before and are praising May and will now switch from Labour or the LDs to the Tories can be counted on one hand.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
In 1997 2 million 1992 Tories stayed at home and 900 000 voted for the Referendum Party or UKIP, that was more than the 2 million 1992 Tories who switched to Blair
According to HYUFD logic, surely people who "switched to Blair" can't be REAL Tories??
I suppose he could argue that the act of switching implied that they had ceased to be real Tories. As someone who stopped voting Labour on a regular basis post-1996 , I have some sympathy for his views here - though in my case I refused to follow the Blairite drift to the centre-Right and would argue that New Labour had ceased to be Real Labour!
Many left-wing Labour voters switched to the LDs, Greens or Respect or stayed home under Blair in 2005 or Brown in 2010 as a number of rightwing Tories switched to UKIP in 2015 or stayed home under Cameron and have done so again after the Chequers Deal
It would be his best chance of becoming a party leader?
It would require the ability to be decisive and pivot quickly to meet new circumstances. Boris has many advantages (well, some) but as his life history (and "All Out War", which I have now finished reading - excellent, btw) shows, he is frequently indecisive and prone to avoid responsibility. He's not the type.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left ory to UKIP movement reverses
It wasn't so long ago that you thought the sun shone out of Theresa May's backside. You make Boris look like a paragon of consistency.
When events change....what do you do?
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
According to HYUFD logic, surely people who "switched to Blair" can't be REAL Tories??
r!
Many left-wing Labour voters switched to the LDs, Greens or Respect or stayed home under Blair in 2005 or Brown in 2010 as a number of rightwing Tories switched to UKIP in 2015 or stayed home under Cameron and have done so again after the Chequers Deal
Indeed so. When UKIP was last enjoying momentum , it managed to pull in support from both Left and Right - and for many voters it had replaced the NOTA option formerly provided by the LibDems but which had been lost following entry into the Coalition.It was a mistake to assume that UKIP support was overwhelmingly tied to the EU issue. Their subsequent behaviour has seriously tarnished the party image and makes it very unlikely - in my view - that it will approach its former peak levels of support.I also suspect that this time any recovery will be at the expense of the Right - and that Labour will be much less adversely affected than a few years ago. Though we shall see!
Mr. Owls, some of us had a pre-tournament bet on Croatia at 36
Report from Moscow.
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Just chilling in the AC before the match.
You like Leicester though so your judgement is hardly that of Solomon. I’ve been there a reasonable number of times and my conclusion is that Moscow feels like a thug paradise police state. Yes, there are some fine people but walk past the Nemtsov memorial (unless that’s been cleansed) and you may reach a different conclusion.
[TL:DR: Labour campaign staff paid for microads on Facebook so Jeremy Corbyn would think the campaign was doing x,y&z when actually it was doing a,b&c]
Comments
Of course, HYUFD is the arch or ur PB Tory which begs the question, whither PB Toryism now?
That said, this level of shambles is also quite rare, fortunately.
At least I can say that I didn't like May before she became PM, didn't like her when she was promising a real Brexit and don't like her now. In addition to being a lying duplicitous coward, she has always been politically talentless.
I have always had a soft spot for Boris and I think he still has a chance - much will depend on the quality of his resignation speech and the role he takes thereafter.
So have the Remainers upped their decibel level? No. It was the now unignorable deadline that drowned out every other voice and hence is what she is responding to.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/jacob-rees-mogg-and-the-shadowy-group-of-tories-shaping-brexit
Humid and muggy 27 degrees, slight chance of thunderstorms. Lots of visible Croatian fans and most neutrals backing them in bars around Red Square. All very good natured, and light police presence. Few France fans, but was the same in St Petersburg for the SF. I reckon France will win.
Russia is a great place, I really like it. Shops full of European products, people helpful, good food and loads to see.
Just chilling in the AC before the match.
The government has (finally) chosen - on Brexit, whatever the choice, it was bound to cheese off a substantial chunk of the electorate. But provided we exit the EU, and FoM does genuinely end (if Mrs May's planning to backtrack she's going about it rather unequivocally "foM will end" - not much wriggle room there) - then I suspect next March attention will turn to the post-Brexit plan. I suspect the electorate is reacting more to a squabbling and divided Tory party than the finer details of the government's White Paper.
Crikey...
https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1018443035225387009
C'mon Croatia!!!
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1018477966844710913
And there are one or two Francophile territories (and indeed departments) around the globe.
Not entirely sure about the Venusian life forms, though.
I suspect quite a few in Scotland support France too - Andrew Neil, for one.
But due to that pressure, balls filled with 'air' might 'float' in the atmosphere, allowing for a three-dimensional football to be played. Unfortunately that might also make the offside rule even harder to explain ...
However, it is likely that any lifeforms that would play such a game might fly (or 'swim' in gas) rather than walk, and therefore it might best be called wingball.
Please don't tell me I'm overthinking this.
And consider they will have to enjoy an environment of superheated acid merely to survive, when thinking about whom they might be predisposed to support.
In any case, not all ERG members are pro-Brexit. The BBC has:
Of the Cabinet attendees who have claimed allowances for the ERG, six were pro-Leave while the other three, David Gauke, Sajid Javid and Brandon Lewis, campaigned for Remain. Of the 45 total MPs identified through claims, 33 were pro-Leave and 12 pro-Remain.
However the percentage of Tories who were praising May before and have now switched to UKIP in fury at the Chequers Deal is more than enough to make Corbyn PM
excellent video Robert, looking forward to the next installment
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/europe-and-south-america-are-growing-in-soccer-power-that-wasnt-supposed-to-happen/
Of course if Corbyn does beat a soft Brexit Tory leader it is almost certain a hard Brexiteer will take over as Tory Leader of the Opposition
Might Boris jump ship to UKIP?
Yes, it seems ridiculous. But UKIP are currently rudderless, and Farage is very much damaged goods. Boris stands little chance (IMO) of becoming Conservative leader (*), and has an ego the size of a mountain. He's also a proven winner, has held high office, and knows lots of useful people.
Could he switch over to UKIP, become its leader, and take it on as a more right-wing Conservative party, professionally run (which they were not before) ? He could mould the party into something quite interesting electorally.
(*) get your bets on now ...
As a result though the Liberals were in power for 13 years until the Progressive Conservatives and the Reform Party's successor the Canadian Alliance merged to form the Conservative Party of Canada which won the 2006 Canadian general election under Stephen Harper
Taking over a party and moulding it might well appeal to him: the chance too make history like his hero. It'll also be a new challenge for someone who has rather admirably done many different things (if not always successfully).
I'm not saying this will happen; just that it might appeal to him.
Also, wonder what Rita Panahai (an Australian woman) has against the the French. Has there been any massive Aussie v French rivarly recently?
But I think all those 5-set matches this week must have drained him physically and mentally.
France and Britain had serious colonial rivalry in southern and eastern India up until the 1790s.
Most of all I want to see quality, exciting football. 4-3 after extra time would be nice.
Will? No.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-ads-to-deceive-jeremy-corbyn-during-election-campaign-grlx75c27
[TL:DR: Labour campaign staff paid for microads on Facebook so Jeremy Corbyn would think the campaign was doing x,y&z when actually it was doing a,b&c]
Now for the footy