•Sources said the prime minister was “very emotional” after meeting the former party leader Iain Duncan Smith on Wednesday — though No 10 denied she had cried
•Cabinet ministers Penny Mordaunt and Esther McVey are privately still contemplating resignation, with Brexiteer backbenchers pushing the slogan “PM for PM”
•Rebel MPs said 40 letters had been submitted to the 1922 committee demanding a vote of no confidence in May, eight short of the number required
•Constituency bosses are leaning on MPs loyal to May to tell them to block her plans or get rid of her
•Whips threatened MPs in marginal seats with the loss of campaign funds at the next election unless they withdraw their letters.
•One plan being floated by May loyalists would even see the whips put in letters to force a leadership vote in the belief that the prime minister would win, since Tory rules mean she could not be challenged for another year.
This would be the Penny Mordaunt who signed an EDM in support of homeopathy? That Penny Mordaunt? What on earth has she done in office to make people think she has something to offer as PM?
Penny Mordaunt also organised and led the rally for Leadsom.
Possibly the most embarrasing thing since John Redwood 'performed' the Welsh national anthem.
Or alternatively, just completely pig ignorant (apologies to any pigs reading this). Her homeopathy views suggest to me an inability to think or comprehend relevant information. I think we may be struggling to get past @surby's very sound point that she has the right initials.
Theresa May: you now have no choice whatsoever but to back me and my own plan for Brexit, or
There will be no Brexit Corbyn will be PM, and so you will end up with no Britain as well as no Brexit The sky will turn black, it will rain every day The England football team will retire and retrain as fireplace salesmen Satan will stalk the Earth You will have to sacrifice your first born Christmas is cancelled.
So there it is, why don’t all you remoaners, Brexit fruitcakes, Euro sausages, loonies, grand coalition of closet racists and the mentally ill, just shut up and go away, so OGH, Herdson, and all the rest of us can enjoy the finest hour of this greatest of Primeministers.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels ays "OK, OK, you can have the White Paper as Brexit", then they can all claim they played their part in facing down the Eurocracy. Anyone think that is going to happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still be able to get a transition deal but the party will demand it is ended by December 2020 if no FTA confirmed by then
There etc.
I agree on that.
The key date now is no longer what happens in March 2019 but what has happened by December 2020 and the mood of the public and Tory voters and members and MPs then
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps but the fact UKIP are already up to 8% in today's Opinium poll is not a sign of most Leavers supporting this deal, indeed all the polling so far shows a clear majority of Leave voters oppose the Chequers Deal as too soft a Brexit deal and while fewer Remainers oppose it about a third of Remainers still think it is too hard a Brexit deal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
It was a suggestion made 2 years ago (if not quite so stark) for a start. But for one thing, it would appear not all remainers are on board. Some because they see a chance to remain out of this, some because they too agree the proposal is not a proper brexit. Hence the difficulties.
Once we have left we cannot remain. As I say, all May needs to do is get to 30th March without the UK having fallen off a cliff. Some current Remainers will then campaign for the UK to rejoin the EU, but at the same time they are not going to oppose the softest possible Brexit. And while some Leavers will, others will not as they will have got what they wanted.
You seem to think a lot of leavers will be content with BINO. I doubt it.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels a happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still b then
There etc.
I agree on that.
The key date now is no longer what happens in March 2019 but what has happened by December 2020 and the mood of the public and Tory voters and members and MPs then
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps but the fact UKIP are already up to 8% in today's Opinium poll is not a sign of most Leavers supporting this deal, indeed all the polling so far shows a clear majority of Leave voters oppose the Chequers Deal as too soft a Brexit deal and while fewer Remainers oppose it about a third of Remainers still think it is too hard a Brexit deal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
It was a suggestion made 2 years ago (if not quite so stark) for a start. But for one thing, it would appear not all remainers are on board. Some because they see a chance to remain out of this, some because they too agree the proposal is not a proper brexit. Hence the difficulties.
Once we have left we cannot remain. As I say, all May needs to do is get to 30th March without the UK having fallen off a cliff. Some current Remainers will then campaign for the UK to rejoin the EU, but at the same time they are not going to oppose the softest possible Brexit. And while some Leavers will, others will not as they will have got what they wanted.
It's getting to March which is the problem. JRM and co must know the possibility you raise exists, hence the ratcheting up of pressure this week. May surviving that long isn't looking great. Imagine what conference will be like.
•Sources said the prime minister was “very emotional” after meeting the former party leader Iain Duncan Smith on Wednesday — though No 10 denied she had cried
•Cabinet ministers Penny Mordaunt and Esther McVey are privately still contemplating resignation, with Brexiteer backbenchers pushing the slogan “PM for PM”
•Rebel MPs said 40 letters had been submitted to the 1922 committee demanding a vote of no confidence in May, eight short of the number required
•Constituency bosses are leaning on MPs loyal to May to tell them to block her plans or get rid of her
•Whips threatened MPs in marginal seats with the loss of campaign funds at the next election unless they withdraw their letters.
•One plan being floated by May loyalists would even see the whips put in letters to force a leadership vote in the belief that the prime minister would win, since Tory rules mean she could not be challenged for another year.
This would be the Penny Mordaunt who signed an EDM in support of homeopathy? That Penny Mordaunt? What on earth has she done in office to make people think she has something to offer as PM?
Penny Mordaunt also organised and led the rally for Leadsom.
Possibly the most embarrasing thing since John Redwood 'performed' the Welsh national anthem.
Or alternatively, just completely pig ignorant (apologies to any pigs reading this). Her homeopathy views suggest to me an inability to think or comprehend relevant information. I think we may be struggling to get past @surby's very sound point that she has the right initials.
As another Old Etonian pointed out to me 'BJ4PM' wasn't a good slogan more a sales pitch for mind bleach.
My thinking is that Boris might prefer the slogan BJ4PM after he becomes Prime Minister.
When someone does something like that surely they know what they are doing, and are simply counting on the first message about the 'protest' to be believed despite the correction? Surely they cannot believe it themselves?
Amusing twitter bio from this Daniel Sugarman
Journalist for @JewishChron. Part of the 'Zionist media' you hear so much about! All views my own (or taught to me by senior Elders on our secret island lair)
Anyhoo, I'm off to enjoy the summer just a public service announcement.
If you're not cheering for Croatia today then you're not really deserving of a British passport, blue or otherwise.
I backed Croatia early on and have just laid some of it back. I am conflicted because while I am confident France will win, the markets look wrong. France is too short to lift the World Cup but too long to win inside 90 minutes. Croatia has already won two penalty shootouts and if it gets that far, I'd want to bet on a third.
And then Wimbledon looks skewed as well. Anderson will probably lose but 9/2 is tempting. To an extent we are guessing (or I am) what will be the effects of the very long semi-finals.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels ays "OK, OK, you can have the White Paper as Brexit", then they can all claim they played their part in facing down the Eurocracy. Anyone think that is going to happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still be able to get a transition deal but the party will demand it is ended by December 2020 if no FTA confirmed by then
There etc.
I agree on that.
The key date now is no longer what happens in March 2019 but what has happened by December 2020 and the mood of the public and Tory voters and members and MPs then
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps but the fact UKIP are already up to 8% in today's Opinium poll is not a sign of most Leavers supporting this deal, indeed all the polling so far shows a clear majority of Leave voters oppose the Chequers Deal as too soft a Brexit deal and while fewer Remainers oppose it about a third of Remainers still think it is too hard a Brexit deal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
It was a suggestion made 2 years ago (if not quite so stark) for a start. But for one thing, it would appear not all remainers are on board. Some because they see a chance to remain out of this, some because they too agree the proposal is not a proper brexit. Hence the difficulties.
The deal as it stands is inferior to EEA, and suggests a high risk of permanent “taxation without representation” vassal status.
Per Mandelson this morning, the deal fails on sovereignty grounds, and that’s before inevitable watering down on FOM.
I’m no longer sure this is better than “no deal”. U.K. should aspire better than to economic colony status.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels a happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still b then
There etc.
I agree on that.
The key date now is no longer what happens in March 2019 but what has happened by December 2020 and the mood of the public and Tory voters and members and MPs then
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps but the fact UKIP are already up to 8% in today's Opinium poll is not a sign of most Leavers supporting this deal, indeed all the polling so far shows a clear majority of Leave voters oppose the Chequers Deal as too soft a Brexit deal and while fewer Remainers oppose it about a third of Remainers still think it is too hard a Brexit deal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
It was a suggestion made 2 years ago (if not quite so stark) for a start. But for one thing, it would appear not all remainers are on board. Some because they see a chance to remain out of this, some because they too agree the proposal is not a proper brexit. Hence the difficulties.
Once we have left we cannot remain. As I say, all May needs to do is get to 30th March without the UK having fallen off a cliff. Some current Remainers will then campaign for the UK to rejoin the EU, but at the same time they are not going to oppose the softest possible Brexit. And while some Leavers will, others will not as they will have got what they wanted.
It's getting to March which is the problem. JRM and co must know the possibility you raise exists, hence the ratcheting up of pressure this week. May surviving that long isn't looking great. Imagine what conference will be like.
Yep, getting to 30th March is the be all and end all.
The deal as it stands is inferior to EEA, and suggests a high risk of permanent “taxation without representation” vassal status.
Per Mandelson this morning, the deal fails on sovereignty grounds, and that’s before inevitable watering down on FOM.
I’m no longer sure this is better than “no deal”. U.K. should aspire better than to economic colony status.
If the option is that, and we can always try to untangle further later (as any opposition would surely do) and no deal at all, is it the best we can do for now though? Boris and co have , deliberately or not, left it too late for much else. So unless it is remain after all, as a stop gap measure this might be preferable. However the point that not all remainers support it either does make selling it even harder than it already was.
I’m not defending Trump - I think he’s a prat and a fool of the first order.
I just get irritated by politicians and journalists who ignore diplomatic convention or constitutional proprietary to make a point.
For instance claiming that Brexiteers were hypocritics from not complaining about Trump’s comments on a trade deal and equating it with Obama’s comment while ignoring the fact that they are subtly different and - in diplomacy - nuances matter.
The BBC should be better quality than that
Yet you fell on your face trying a cheap dig at people asking if they complained about the British government interceding on behalf of British Guantanamo detainees.as if that was the same as the Trump admin intervening on Tommy Robinson.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels ays "OK, OK, you can have the White Paper as Brexit", then they can all claim they played their part in facing down the Eurocracy. Anyone think that is going to happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still be able to get a transition deal but the party will demand it is ended by December 2020 if no FTA confirmed by then
There etc.
I agree on that.
The key date now is no longer what happens in March 2019 but what has happened by December 2020 and the mood of the public and Tory voters and members and MPs then
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps eal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
It was a suggestion made 2 years ago (if not quite so stark) for a start. But for one thing, it would appear not all remainers are on board. Some because they see a chance to remain out of this, some because they too agree the proposal is not a proper brexit. Hence the difficulties.
Once wanted.
You seem to think a lot of leavers will be content with BINO. I doubt it.
It doesn't matter. If 10% of Leavers are happy then there is a majority in the country for it. I suspect, though, that it will probably be a lot higher than 10% given that most voters do not follow the intricacies of Brexit. They'll see and note that we have left on 29th March 2019 and that will be that.
You seem to think a lot of leavers will be content with BINO. I doubt it.
It's not about if lots will be, but if some will be. The more that are the less political problems for any future government, though I suspect it will still be quite a lot. However, a reasonable minority being content, or at least not wanting to get into again right away, will give breathing space to what remains of the Tory government (and indeed, the next Labour government).
I'm rather relaxed now about the Chequers Deal. It is crap but about what we can expect now. Not relaxed how we got here but lacking a Tardis we can't do much about that now.
What I'm not relaxed about is May. She's crap and should go.
I'm curious what @TheScreamingEagles and others think about the latter? I know he's no fan of a hard Brexit or Boris etc but nor of the Poundshop Gordon Brown. Should May be allowed to stay despite being crap?
If the Headbangers want to stall Chequers, they will have to move fast. Barnier will not help them now. Their first NO will come in October with the words "we can talk" and drag it on.
As many has said in earlier posts, a kind of EEA/CU will be on offer and a majority will take it after 29th March.
•Whips threatened MPs in marginal seats with the loss of campaign funds at the next election unless they withdraw their letters.
•One plan being floated by May loyalists would even see the whips put in letters to force a leadership vote in the belief that the prime minister would win, since Tory rules mean she could not be challenged for another year.
This is interesting. It is what I said the other day we should look for. Take those two points in reverse order. What Number 10 is saying is the opposite of what it is doing. It is spinning that it could call the vote itself, implying full confidence that May will cruise to victory.
But it is threatening MPs to ensure no vote of no confidence -- because it knows the PM is doomed.
Deeds not words.
Perhaps, but then the rebels say the deal is terrible yet so far not enough are callingfor a vote to get someone in to change direction. Deeds not words.
That is because the rebels understand (and fear) that replacing the PM is now a two stage process. Step 1, the vote of no confidence: May falls. Step 2, a leadership contest contested between ministers who are probably closet remainers for the most part.
That's the problem for the Brexiteers. Getting shot of May is easy. Replacing her with a true believer might well be impossible.
Revelations today re Andrew Griffiths could lead to by-election as the people of Burton and Uttoxeter may object to having a depraved pervert as an MP.Tories have a 20% lead to defend from Labour.Hard ask for Labour unless ukip starts to cream off Tory votes but a potentially tricky by-election is all May and the Tories need right now.
If the Headbangers want to stall Chequers, they will have to move fast. Barnier will not help them now. Their first NO will come in October with the words "we can talk" and drag it on.
As many has said in earlier posts, a kind of EEA/CU will be on offer and a majority will take it after 29th March.
Yep, the loons need to get organised and active now. They have no time to waste. All May needs is for the EU to agree to move to the transition. Once that happens and we have left, it is going to be very hard to get a betrayal narrative going because everyone will have seen the Union flag lowered outside the Commission in Brussels. Like the blue passports it will be hugely symbolic. And with that, her hands are untied. The transition can be extended and no-one will care and very few people are going to look at the deal-making details: Free Movement will end; free movement won't; we'll pay less in, but we'll still be paying; the CJEU will have no direct say, but it will continue to decide; we'll be out of the Customs Union and in a customs union; and so on.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
If the Headbangers want to stall Chequers, they will have to move fast. Barnier will not help them now. Their first NO will come in October with the words "we can talk" and drag it on.
As many has said in earlier posts, a kind of EEA/CU will be on offer and a majority will take it after 29th March.
Yep, the loons need to get organised and active now. They have no time to waste. All May needs is for the EU to agree to move to the transition. Once that happens and we have left, it is going to be very hard to get a betrayal narrative going because everyone will have seen the Union flag lowered outside the Commission in Brussels. Like the blue passports it will be hugely symbolic. And with that, her hands are untied. The transition can be extended and no-one will care and very few people are going to look at the deal-making details: Free Movement will end; free movement won't; we'll pay less in, but we'll still be paying; the CJEU will have no direct say, but it will continue to decide; we'll be out of the Customs Union and in a customs union; and so on.
I think this is deluded. If we get past March with nothing having changed except being in a weaker negotiating position facing another cliff edge, the debate will not quietly fade away.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
That is because the rebels understand (and fear) that replacing the PM is now a two stage process. Step 1, the vote of no confidence: May falls. Step 2, a leadership contest contested between ministers who are probably closet remainers for the most part.
That's the problem for the Brexiteers. Getting shot of May is easy. Replacing her with a true believer might well be impossible.
Quite so. But if they don't even attempt it, their words of betrayal later will ring hollow, since they didn't even try to get rid of her.
I think this is deluded. If we get past March with nothing having changed except being in a weaker negotiating position facing another cliff edge, the debate will not quietly fade away.
A debate will continue, quite passionately I am sure. The debate will have changed to some extent though. It doesn't solve all the problems, but it keep some level of forward momentum and splits off at least some of those complaining. I don't think it will be quite as effective as Southam hopes, but given the range of options available it may work to some degree.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Headbangers want to stall Chequers, they will have to move fast. Barnier will not help them now. Their first NO will come in October with the words "we can talk" and drag it on.
As many has said in earlier posts, a kind of EEA/CU will be on offer and a majority will take it after 29th March.
Yep, the loons need to get organised and active now. They have no time to waste. All May needs is for the EU to agree to move to the transition. Once that happens and we have left, it is going to be very hard to get a betrayal narrative going because everyone will have seen the Union flag lowered outside the Commission in Brussels. Like the blue passports it will be hugely symbolic. And with that, her hands are untied. The transition can be extended and no-one will care and very few people are going to look at the deal-making details: Free Movement will end; free movement won't; we'll pay less in, but we'll still be paying; the CJEU will have no direct say, but it will continue to decide; we'll be out of the Customs Union and in a customs union; and so on.
I think this is deluded. If we get past March with nothing having changed except being in a weaker negotiating position facing another cliff edge, the debate will not quietly fade away.
The loons will have less traction and that will be very important. We too often dismiss the importance of symbolism. But the Union flag being lowered outside the Commission in Brussels is going to be huge. We will have left. The referendum result will have been delivered.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
Half agreed. But "men in grey suits" could go to her after March and thank her for her services and name the date. That will ensure that she will not lead them in another election.
I am not very well informed about inner Tory Party thinking but could well be the outcome.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
One year would get her to next July, and I really don't think she would last beyond that anyway. I think she is focused on March, and she might well stand aside at that point anyway, new PM for the new phase etc etc. For the harder leavers, if they want the government to change direction it needs to be now, or near abouts to now anyway. If they cannot persuade her to change direction, a challenge at least gives them a shot, and it demonstrates for any future contest that they tried at least. Waiting until 5 minutes before a deal is signed, or waiting for the EU to say no, just indicates they don't really oppose May's deal, since they just sat there.
Versus that I don't think the risk May wins and gets a year without a challenge really matters. If May's plan goes through she might go in March, she might not, but the plan going through is more important, not her continued presence.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
One year would get her to next July, and I really don't think she would last beyond that anyway. I think she is focused on March, and she might well stand aside at that point anyway, new PM for the new phase etc etc. For the harder leavers, if they want the government to change direction it needs to be now, or near abouts to now anyway. If they cannot persuade her to change direction, a challenge at least gives them a shot, and it demonstrates for any future contest that they tried at least. Waiting until 5 minutes before a deal is signed, or waiting for the EU to say no, just indicates they don't really oppose May's deal, since they just sat there.
Versus that I don't think the risk May wins and gets a year without a challenge really matters. If May's plan goes through she might go in March, she might not, but the plan going through is more important, not her continued presence.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
I think the chances of Deal Brexit, No Deal Brexit, No Brexit are about 33% each.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels ays "OK, OK, you can have the White Paper as Brexit", then they can all claim they played their part in facing down the Eurocracy. Anyone think that is going to happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still be able to get a transition deal but the party will demand it is ended by December 2020 if no FTA confirmed by then
There etc.
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps eal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
Once wanted.
You seem to think a lot of leavers will be content with BINO. I doubt it.
It doesn't matter. If 10% of Leavers are happy then there is a majority in the country for it. I suspect, though, that it will probably be a lot higher than 10% given that most voters do not follow the intricacies of Brexit. They'll see and note that we have left on 29th March 2019 and that will be that.
Where are you getting these ideas from? Pretty much everything staying as it is but with no say? A rule taker but not rule maker? And why do you think remainers will be content? I doubt they would want colonial status either. Mandelson is already on the warpath. You're simply engaging in wishful thinking.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
Brexiteers are seeking to persuade Johnson to use a resignation speech in the Commons — as early as tomorrow — to “do a Geoffrey Howe” and use an attack on May to trigger an avalanche of letters to the backbench 1922 committee to spark a vote of no confidence in May. “If Boris doesn’t go for it, he will never have another chance,” one said.
Johnson told friends last week he was “feeling very liberated and energised”, but one ally who spoke to him said he was enduring a “black dog” depression and was “sitting around in his pants wondering if he’s done the right thing”.
If the Tories plotter were smart and organized this would be the plan all along. Few resignations, then other saying well this is a concern, but I am reasonable so let me see the details, oh no they are shit....
But I doubt that is how it has gone down.
I know of a few Tories who should be sympathetic to Boris but think he's a copper bottomed shit, skipping out of the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
As an aside I totally expect some Foreign Office memos to be leaked saying how Boris screwed up the whole Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe thing which should be even more fatal for his leadership chances.
BBC reporting that the family think Boris was doing a good job. I know, this surprised me as well.
They shouldn't worry, Jeremy Hunt will bring her home as he's very competent, and it will ensure he is Mrs May's successor.
Hunt is continuity May except more libertarian, he is not going to succeed May and even if he did would likely ensure a Corbyn Premiership as the Tory defections to UKIP would not only not reverse but likely speed up
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
As usual you are answering a different question. We are not talking about a leadership election; only a VoNC.
My point is that May will win a VoNC precisely because if there were a Leadership election, a Boris / Mogg candidate could ultimately win.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels ays "OK, OK, you can have the White Paper as Brexit", then they can all claim they played their part in facing down the Eurocracy. Anyone think that is going to happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still be able to get a transition deal but the party will demand it is ended by December 2020 if no FTA confirmed by then
There etc.
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps eal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
Once wanted.
You seem to think a lot of leavers will be content with BINO. I doubt it.
It doesn't matter. If 10% of Leavers are happy then there is a majority in the country for it. I suspect, though, that it will probably be a lot higher than 10% given that most voters do not follow the intricacies of Brexit. They'll see and note that we have left on 29th March 2019 and that will be that.
Where are you getting these ideas from? Pretty much everything staying as it is but with no say? A rule taker but not rule maker? And why do you think remainers will be content? I doubt they would want colonial status either. Mandelson is already on the warpath. You're simply engaging in wishful thinking.
There seems to be a surprising amount of support for No Deal among people who voted Remain. I expect in part it's based on a belief that the Worst is Best, but may also be that if we're going to have Brexit, it might as well be full fat Brexit.
One crumb of comfort for May is that 48% of Tory supporters back the Chequers proposal, while 26% oppose, according to Opinium.
Given about a third of current Tory voters voted Remain that still means most Tory Leave voters do not support it
Huh ? SeanF wrote 48% of TORY supporters back Chequers and 26% oppose. Surely, they include both Tory Remain and Tory Leave supporters. What are you on today ?
So 52% of Tory voters have not committed to support the Chequers Deal and that excludes 2017 Tory voters who have now defected to UKIP ie about 5 or 6% from the 42% who voted Tory then given the Tories are only on 36% today
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels ays "OK, OK, you can have the White Paper as Brexit", then they can all claim they played their part in facing down the Eurocracy. Anyone think that is going to happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still be able to get a transition deal but the party will demand it is ended by December 2020 if no FTA confirmed by then
There etc.
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps eal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
Once wanted.
You seem to think a lot of leavers will be content with BINO. I doubt it.
It does
Where are you getting these ideas from? Pretty much everything staying as it is but with no say? A rule taker but not rule maker? And why do you think remainers will be content? I doubt they would want colonial status either. Mandelson is already on the warpath. You're simply engaging in wishful thinking.
There seems to be a surprising amount of support for No Deal among people who voted Remain. I expect in part it's based on a belief that the Worst is Best, but may also be that if we're going to have Brexit, it might as well be full fat Brexit.
Well some last night outright said that might lead to rejoin being a more realistic prospect sooner. But clearly there is a range of reasons.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
As usual you are answering a different question. We are not talking about a leadership election; only a VoNC.
My point is that May will win a VoNC precisely because if there were a Leadership election, a Boris / Mogg candidate could ultimately win.
She will do it for now yes, in a year or two as the general election gets closer and if a FTA has not yet been agreed and we are still in the transition period and the Tories still trail Labour with a significant UKIP vote then maybe not
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You wouldn’t want to in a world where no transaction of significance is contracted under Italian law.
Re Croatia, given their recent comments (just after the game) accusing us of arrogance, I’m intrigued as to how anyone here is supporting them today. There’s also been controversy over the whole ‘coming home’ thing, from those outside this country. People let twenty two years ago by from Euro 96 onwards and decided to regard it as only a terrible thing this year. Really odd.
One crumb of comfort for May is that 48% of Tory supporters back the Chequers proposal, while 26% oppose, according to Opinium.
Given about a third of current Tory voters voted Remain that still means most Tory Leave voters do not support it
Huh ? SeanF wrote 48% of TORY supporters back Chequers and 26% oppose. Surely, they include both Tory Remain and Tory Leave supporters. What are you on today ?
So 52% of Tory voters have not committed to support the Chequers Deal and that excludes 2017 Tory voters who have now defected to UKIP ie about 5 or 6% from the 42% who voted Tory then given the Tories are only on 36% today
A 22% lead is still fairly substantial. Now, I imagine a lot of those 48% think it's not great, but they can live with it.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
One crumb of comfort for May is that 48% of Tory supporters back the Chequers proposal, while 26% oppose, according to Opinium.
Given about a third of current Tory voters voted Remain that still means most Tory Leave voters do not support it
Huh ? SeanF wrote 48% of TORY supporters back Chequers and 26% oppose. Surely, they include both Tory Remain and Tory Leave supporters. What are you on today ?
So 52% of Tory voters have not committed to support the Chequers Deal and that excludes 2017 Tory voters who have now defected to UKIP ie about 5 or 6% from the 42% who voted Tory then given the Tories are only on 36% today
A 22% lead is still fairly substantial. Now, I imagine a lot of those 48% think it's not great, but they can live with it.
And those 48% are not enough to beat Corbyn even if most of the undecideds also swing round to the deal especially as Corbyn has united left-wing voters behind him
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property, or set myself up as a Notary. I could work as a consultant for an Italian firm that wants advice on English law, but that's different.
One crumb of comfort for May is that 48% of Tory supporters back the Chequers proposal, while 26% oppose, according to Opinium.
Given about a third of current Tory voters voted Remain that still means most Tory Leave voters do not support it
Huh ? SeanF wrote 48% of TORY supporters back Chequers and 26% oppose. Surely, they include both Tory Remain and Tory Leave supporters. What are you on today ?
So 52% of Tory voters have not committed to support the Chequers Deal and that excludes 2017 Tory voters who have now defected to UKIP ie about 5 or 6% from the 42% who voted Tory then given the Tories are only on 36% today
A 22% lead is still fairly substantial. Now, I imagine a lot of those 48% think it's not great, but they can live with it.
And those 48% are not enough to beat Corbyn even if most of the undecideds also swing round to the deal especially as Corbyn has united left-wing voters behind him
Sure, but there are loads of other people who will vote against Corbyn for other reasons.
Re Croatia, given their recent comments (just after the game) accusing us of arrogance, I’m intrigued as to how anyone here is supporting them today. There’s also been controversy over the whole ‘coming home’ thing, from those outside this country. People let twenty two years ago by from Euro 96 onwards and decided to regard it as only a terrible thing this year. Really odd.
I’d cheer for Satan’s XI if they were playing France.
You cannot overturn centuries of history.
Cheering for Croatia is just another Operation Catapult.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property.
We do not want an integrated legal system, though, do we.
There’s a reason London is the world’s legal capital.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property.
We do not want an integrated legal system, though, do we.
There’s a reason London is the world’s legal capital.
That's right, but I think it's an example of the limits on worldwide integration. One could come up with plenty of other examples.
Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt on 'resignation suicide watch' according to paper review on Marr
Part of the second wave, once Brussels responds.
If Brussels ays "OK, OK, you can have the White Paper as Brexit", then they can all claim they played their part in facing down the Eurocracy. Anyone think that is going to happen though?
Barnier is playing for time but I expect a 'Non Madame May' in due course much as De Gaulle refused Macmillan's EEC entry plans almost half a century ago, at least as far as a FTA goes
In which case, her handling of the 2018 White Paper will prove to be be even more disatrous than her handling of the 2017 Manifesto.....
She may though still be able to get a transition deal but the party will demand it is ended by December 2020 if no FTA confirmed by then
There etc.
Symbolic wins and no big downsides, I should have said.
But my That is a big if, though.
Perhaps eal
A minority of Leavers plus all Remainers = a majority of people. That is clearly the way forward.
Once wanted.
You seem to think a lot of leavers will be content with BINO. I doubt it.
It doesn't matter. If 10% of Leavers are happy then there is a majority in the country for it. I suspect, though, that it will probably be a lot higher than 10% given that most voters do not follow the intricacies of Brexit. They'll see and note that we have left on 29th March 2019 and that will be that.
Where are you getting these ideas from? Pretty much everything staying as it is but with no say? A rule taker but not rule maker? And why do you think remainers will be content? I doubt they would want colonial status either. Mandelson is already on the warpath. You're simply engaging in wishful thinking.
Nope - I am saying that once we have left we have left. There will be no more remain and the result of the referendum will have been delivered. I believe that will change the way that a lot of people view things.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property, or set myself up as a Notary. I could work as a consultant for an Italian firm that wants advice on English law, but that's different.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property.
We do not want an integrated legal system, though, do we.
There’s a reason London is the world’s legal capital.
With my pedant's hat on - I think you mean 'the world's leading centre for legal matters.'
Unless the One World Government has been promulgated and headquartered in London without my noticing.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property.
We do not want an integrated legal system, though, do we.
There’s a reason London is the world’s legal capital.
With my pedant's hat on - I think you mean 'the world's leading centre for legal matters.'
Unless the One World Government has been promulgated and headquartered in London without my noticing.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite that will be 50 or 60 votes at most which is not enough in an electorate of more than 300. That's why they daren't stick the knife in May: they'd be stuck with Hammond, Hunt or Javid.
Re Croatia, given their recent comments (just after the game) accusing us of arrogance, I’m intrigued as to how anyone here is supporting them today. There’s also been controversy over the whole ‘coming home’ thing, from those outside this country. People let twenty two years ago by from Euro 96 onwards and decided to regard it as only a terrible thing this year. Really odd.
France vs Croatia, I cannot support France, simple as.
The arrogance thing is almost always nonsense, so I just ignore it. Pundits and fans get over excited, who knew?
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite that will be 50 or 60 votes at most which is not enough in an electorate of more than 300. That's why they daren't stick the knife in May: they'd be stuck with Hammond, Hunt or Javid.
Pretty cowardly of them. Do they believe in a hard Brexit or not? If they do, make a stand even if they lose.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property.
We do not want an integrated legal system, though, do we.
There’s a reason London is the world’s legal capital.
With my pedant's hat on - I think you mean 'the world's leading centre for legal matters.'
Unless the One World Government has been promulgated and headquartered in London without my noticing.
It has. Sorry, we should have let you know.
So why the f*** are we still arguing about Brexit?
Incidentally with the slight uptick of UKIP which still leaves them light years from having an actual MP elected, I think we can expect Farage to regain his ubiquity on the mainstream media.
'He represents an important strand in UK politics to which we must give voice, plus the freak makes for great car crash tv!'
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
There's a popular music beat combo called the Beatles you may want to give a listen to.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite that will be 50 or 60 votes at most which is not enough in an electorate of more than 300. That's why they daren't stick the knife in May: they'd be stuck with Hammond, Hunt or Javid.
Pretty cowardly of them. Do they believe in a hard Brexit or not? If they do, make a stand even if they lose.
That would be virtue signalling, surely? They're going to use the tactics which give them the best chance of succeeding, and that means voting down May's Brexit in the commons, not trying to unseat her.
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
Ah, the first time Lidl shopper.
Their pizza is utter shit. Their olive oil is good. Their organic fair trade freeze dried coffee is, and I understand the caveat here, the best instant coffee you can buy.
In tomatoes season the regularly have the best tinned tomatoes at unbelievably low prices.
But the middle aisle is where the joy is at. What random awesome thing can you buy this week?
Incidentally with the slight uptick of UKIP which still leaves them light years from having an actual MP elected, I think we can expect Farage to regain his ubiquity on the mainstream media.
'He represents an important strand in UK politics to which we must give voice, plus the freak makes for great car crash tv!'
LMAO at what Bannon said about Tommy Robinson. What a fool.
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
There's a popular music beat combo called the Beatles you may want to give a listen to.
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
Ah, the first time Lidl shopper.
Their pizza is utter shit. Their olive oil is good. Their organic fair trade freeze dried coffee is, and I understand the caveat here, the best instant coffee you can buy.
In tomatoes season the regularly have the best tinned tomatoes at unbelievably low prices.
But the middle aisle is where the joy is at. What random awesome thing can you buy this week?
Incidentally with the slight uptick of UKIP which still leaves them light years from having an actual MP elected, I think we can expect Farage to regain his ubiquity on the mainstream media.
'He represents an important strand in UK politics to which we must give voice, plus the freak makes for great car crash tv!'
LMAO at what Bannon said about Tommy Robinson. What a fool.
Would have been better if he'd said Robinson was 'supporting the backbone of Britain.'
Then we could have agreed that he had correctly called him an arse.
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
Yes, Lidl and Aldi are supermarkets for customers who don't mind own-brand (or more often small brand) stuff or long queues, and are decisive because a lot of stock, especially non-food items, will not be there next week. The early days were more fun because you had to guess the contents of a tin or packet by the picture but now most of it is English rather than German.
Where are you getting these ideas from? Pretty much everything staying as it is but with no say? A rule taker but not rule maker? And why do you think remainers will be content? I doubt they would want colonial status either. Mandelson is already on the warpath. You're simply engaging in wishful thinking.
Nope - I am saying that once we have left we have left. There will be no more remain and the result of the referendum will have been delivered. I believe that will change the way that a lot of people view things.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
No you are completely wrong. I don’t want to come over all Trump, but I feel embarrassed for you how wrong you are.
Ignore the Brexit factions, when it comes to VoNC they don’t exist. The VoNC is about how crap she is now, the liability she is now just like the Thatcher VoNC that did for her was not factional. Mays baggage is not just the Chequers fudge, it’s all her cred shredding u turns. Whatever the faction or personality, can she make any promise in her offices again to anyone and they believe her?
Whether it’s Javid or one of many others, it’s fresh face, fresh energy, fresh ideas, fresh voice different personality, honeymoon period at home and abroad, most importantly slates wiped clean, its the only way forward from this situation, and its ideal antidote to such a situation. It is vote for fresh what will clearly win the confidence vote, not an individual losing it. So once it goes to a secret ballot don’t try counting this factions vote, or guess what the other faction may do, or think it’s only 48 of them, whatever the faction or individual I have just told you what the vast amount of them will vote for.
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
Yes, Lidl and Aldi are supermarkets for customers who don't mind own-brand (or more often small brand) stuff or long queues, and are decisive because a lot of stock, especially non-food items, will not be there next week. The early days were more fun because you had to guess the contents of a tin or packet by the picture but now most of it is English rather than German.
There seemed to be a lot of lookalike brands, designed perhaps to fool a casual glance.
Paywalled for me but if that is what DD wants then you have to wonder if he understands international trade at all. There have to be rules, whether as part of a customs union, free trade agreement or WTO. Britain is not isolated like cold war Albania. Given there must be regulations, we cannot control them and our ability even to influence them is compromised by Brexit.
One can only sigh when one sees nonsense like that. The sad irony is that the long term trend is toward globalisation of standards, Brexit is merely a pause in what is an inevitable path to a time when the notion of unilateral, national control of standards and regulation will be a very distant memory.
IMHO, people will keep pushing back against international harmonisation. For example, I don't think there will ever be a time when you could qualify as a solicitor in England and practise in Italy.
You have been able to do exactly that for more than a decade.
I would have to requalify in Italy. I can't just go over to Italy and start litigating, or selling property, or set myself up as a Notary. I could work as a consultant for an Italian firm that wants advice on English law, but that's different.
One of the Eurodevils this summer has got herself qualified as a Scottish lawyer because she wants to stay here. To do this she needed to satisfy them that the qualifications she had in Italy were of the requisite standard and pass some exams from the Scottish law Society showing she had a basic understanding of aspects of Scots law including property. It does not seem to have been particularly onerous but I don't think it is correct that she could have simply passed herself off as a Scots lawyer on the back of her Italian qualifications. She just wasn't.
May says she is in it for the long haul in answer to whether she will stand and fight a no confidence vote
May doesn’t have an option. In a no confidence vote of course she’s “standing” - if she loses, she can’t stand in the consequent election....
I suppose May could resign at the time such a vote is announced and so pre-empt the need for it. Perhaps that is what Marr meant.
I am not sure why May would lose a VoNC. Are there enough votes to defeat her ? Also, does it not guarantee her one more year which is exactly what the Headbangers do not want, surely.
May would lose a VoNC because the one simple truth that unites the Conservative Party is that May is crap and must not in any circumstances lead another election campaign. There is no pro-May faction. Since no MP who can count believes Mogg or Boris has a cat in hell's chance of replacing May, there is no reason to support her.
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite behind behind one of them they certainly have a chance of reaching the final two and of winning the membership vote
If the Mogg and Boris backing MPs unite that will be 50 or 60 votes at most which is not enough in an electorate of more than 300. That's why they daren't stick the knife in May: they'd be stuck with Hammond, Hunt or Javid.
Uh no. 120 odd Tory MPs voted Leave as did most Tory seats and even a few Remainers like Soames backed Boris last time. If there is a VONC now May likely survives for the time being but with maybe 100+ Tory MPs voting against her
OK back in the real world I have just been to Lidl for the first time.
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
Ah, the first time Lidl shopper.
Their pizza is utter shit. Their olive oil is good. Their organic fair trade freeze dried coffee is, and I understand the caveat here, the best instant coffee you can buy.
In tomatoes season the regularly have the best tinned tomatoes at unbelievably low prices.
But the middle aisle is where the joy is at. What random awesome thing can you buy this week?
it didn’t disappoint.
"You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe."
You can't though can you? You might be able to buy the pizza and (once in a blue moon) a canoe but it's the everyday basics in between that are often missing. I don't know how people manage to do their weekly shop there, unless they have a very limited pallette and/or rarely cook from scratch.
On the plus side: smoked salmon, gravlax, wine and, as noted before, olive oil is good value there and they often have interesting continental foods you don't often see elsewhere.
That 38% for the Tories then still better than the 36% for the Tories today
Going a little further back - May 2012, Labour's average lead was 12% and their highest 14% - when Con were on 31......
In May 2012 Ed Miliband had not united the left permanently behind him as Corbyn has by squeezing the Greens, LDs, left-wing SNP and left-wing UKIP voters and getting out non voters. Cameron also squeezed the UKIP vote with his EU referendum promise they now expect their LEAVE vote to be proper delivered. Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses
Comments
Theresa May: you now have no choice whatsoever but to back me and my own plan for Brexit, or
There will be no Brexit
Corbyn will be PM, and so you will end up with no Britain as well as no Brexit
The sky will turn black, it will rain every day
The England football team will retire and retrain as fireplace salesmen
Satan will stalk the Earth
You will have to sacrifice your first born
Christmas is cancelled.
So there it is, why don’t all you remoaners, Brexit fruitcakes, Euro sausages, loonies, grand coalition of closet racists and the mentally ill, just shut up and go away, so OGH, Herdson, and all the rest of us can enjoy the finest hour of this greatest of Primeministers.
That’s settled then. What’s for lunch?
Amusing twitter bio from this Daniel Sugarman
Journalist for @JewishChron. Part of the 'Zionist media' you hear so much about! All views my own (or taught to me by senior Elders on our secret island lair)
And then Wimbledon looks skewed as well. Anderson will probably lose but 9/2 is tempting. To an extent we are guessing (or I am) what will be the effects of the very long semi-finals.
Per Mandelson this morning, the deal fails on sovereignty grounds, and that’s before inevitable watering down on FOM.
I’m no longer sure this is better than “no deal”.
U.K. should aspire better than to economic colony status.
https://www.ft.com/content/ee9c34ac-86af-11e8-9199-c2a4754b5a0e
What I'm not relaxed about is May. She's crap and should go.
I'm curious what @TheScreamingEagles and others think about the latter? I know he's no fan of a hard Brexit or Boris etc but nor of the Poundshop Gordon Brown. Should May be allowed to stay despite being crap?
As many has said in earlier posts, a kind of EEA/CU will be on offer and a majority will take it after 29th March.
That's the problem for the Brexiteers. Getting shot of May is easy. Replacing her with a true believer might well be impossible.
However, I would still encourage them both to resign this evening and send their letters in.
I am not very well informed about inner Tory Party thinking but could well be the outcome.
But having said that, de Gaulle and Tito (who was an ethnic Croat) supported the Allies and fought against the Nazis.
Versus that I don't think the risk May wins and gets a year without a challenge really matters. If May's plan goes through she might go in March, she might not, but the plan going through is more important, not her continued presence.
Edit: 5 second soundbite.
My point is that May will win a VoNC precisely because if there were a Leadership election, a Boris / Mogg candidate could ultimately win.
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1018448627042308102
Sure, but there are loads of other people who will vote against Corbyn for other reasons.
You cannot overturn centuries of history.
Cheering for Croatia is just another Operation Catapult.
There’s a reason London is the world’s legal capital.
Unless the One World Government has been promulgated and headquartered in London without my noticing.
The arrogance thing is almost always nonsense, so I just ignore it. Pundits and fans get over excited, who knew?
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1018452436057513984
Incidentally with the slight uptick of UKIP which still leaves them light years from having an actual MP elected, I think we can expect Farage to regain his ubiquity on the mainstream media.
'He represents an important strand in UK politics to which we must give voice, plus the freak makes for great car crash tv!'
Amazeballs. You can buy anything from a slice of pizza to a canoe. The range is great organic this, free range that, big brands, own brands, all in a well-lit, air conned space.
Anything else anyone wants to know?
They're going to use the tactics which give them the best chance of succeeding, and that means voting down May's Brexit in the commons, not trying to unseat her.
Their pizza is utter shit. Their olive oil is good. Their organic fair trade freeze dried coffee is, and I understand the caveat here, the best instant coffee you can buy.
In tomatoes season the regularly have the best tinned tomatoes at unbelievably low prices.
But the middle aisle is where the joy is at. What random awesome thing can you buy this week?
Then we could have agreed that he had correctly called him an arse.
Any old kind of Leave....
Ignore the Brexit factions, when it comes to VoNC they don’t exist. The VoNC is about how crap she is now, the liability she is now just like the Thatcher VoNC that did for her was not factional. Mays baggage is not just the Chequers fudge, it’s all her cred shredding u turns. Whatever the faction or personality, can she make any promise in her offices again to anyone and they believe her?
Whether it’s Javid or one of many others, it’s fresh face, fresh energy, fresh ideas, fresh voice different personality, honeymoon period at home and abroad, most importantly slates wiped clean, its the only way forward from this situation, and its ideal antidote to such a situation. It is vote for fresh what will clearly win the confidence vote, not an individual losing it. So once it goes to a secret ballot don’t try counting this factions vote, or guess what the other faction may do, or think it’s only 48 of them, whatever the faction or individual I have just told you what the vast amount of them will vote for.
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/15/kevin-de-leon-stuns-dianne-feinstein-wins-california-democratic-party-endorsement-in-a-landslide/
You can't though can you? You might be able to buy the pizza and (once in a blue moon) a canoe but it's the everyday basics in between that are often missing. I don't know how people manage to do their weekly shop there, unless they have a very limited pallette and/or rarely cook from scratch.
On the plus side: smoked salmon, gravlax, wine and, as noted before, olive oil is good value there and they often have interesting continental foods you don't often see elsewhere.
Plus a lot of that Labour lead was down to the pasty tax etc easily reversed. As I said Corbyn becomes PM unless the recent Tory to UKIP movement reverses