F1: backed two bets (one of which is just Mr. B's, to be honest).
The other is Bottas each way at 17 for the win. Given the misfortune, racing mistakes and strategy blunders, it would not be surprising if Vettel and/or Hamilton suffered some form of woe or other.
As a Southampton fan, Raheem Sterling for England rather reminds me of Shane Long. Both tire out defenders while scoring about one in a hundred games. Except Long is tougher, tries harder and doesn't look as though he's about to do jazz hands every time he gets the ball.
Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were stars
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.
Not as well as Rashford would have
Clearly not a view shared by the England manager. Maybe you should take your Man United colour specs off.
What's Sterling's goal scoring record for England ?
2 in 31 (I think)
His finishing was poor today, but he did well at Vardy's game of stretching defences via the ball over the top. Not as poor as Sweden's finishing though. That was truly awful.
I see 538 is now giving us a 58% chance of making the final, 28% of winning it.
Presumably the 58% falls a bit if our opposition is Croatia. Indeed that implies evens at best which seems a smidge low. I reckon 58% if out opposition is Croatia and 68% if Rusia
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.
The Brexiteer list of who betrayed Brexit is likely to be nearly as long as the Brexiteer list of excuses as to why Brexit failed
The reason Brexit failed is because the government and civil service ensured it failed because they are all pro-Remain and want to subvert democracy..
Another reason why revenge will be a dish best served cold when Brexiteers either sit on the hands and refuse to vote for Con - Or vote for Corbyn which is what I'll be doing at the next available opportunity.
If you think this deal gives too much to the EU then vote UKIP or stay at home.
A Corbyn Brexit would be just as fudged as a May Brexit if not more so, so a vote for Corbyn if you want hard Brexit does not mean much though I suppose you assume May or Javid will lose and then Rees-Mogg will take over as Leader of the Opposition sweeping to victory against PM Corbyn at the subsequent general election on a hard Brexit platform? There are certainly no guarantees of that
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball game
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.
That’s the nature of a negotiation
The Uk has said no to FoM
The EU has said you can’t have anything without FoM
So you either stop negotiating or look for a deal that is acceptable to both sides (aka “cherry picking”)
Isn't this "freedom of Labour mobility" basically freedom of movement tho?
Haven’t seen the detail but shouldn’t be
FoLM is effectively an automatic work permit
FoM is the right to come to the UK to look for work *and* have the same access to benefits as a U.K. citizen
Since 1992 there has been a huge amount of detail added to the movement regime, concerning third country nationals, access to in work benefits, right to move to "look for" work, so on and so forth.
Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.
Action replay now taking place.
Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.
The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.
I thought I'd done well getting on Arnold at 33-1, but she looks like needing a split vote similar to last year. Obviously a lot depends on what happens in the next week, but Joshua is out to 10-1.
I think Kane is far too short given what Pickford did today, but I guess it's the captaincy factor that's driving the price.
Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.
Action replay now taking place.
Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.
The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.
I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?
If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
Freedom of Movement ends. To be replaced by Free Movement.
Theresa May can just about claim her red lines are intact but the distinction will be lost on most Leavers who thought they were voting for reduced immigration.
Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.
Action replay now taking place.
Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.
The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.
I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?
If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
Mr. Gin, I'd urge you not to do that. Vote Labour by all means when they aren't led by a socialist who describes himself as a friend of Hamas, but to actively vote for Corbyn would be to seek to revenge one injury by inflicting one still worse upon the nation.
I will be too, Corbyn will be short term and will temporarily break the uk. That means we will need to live within our means. It also means hopefully people will start to realise we need to kick out the shower of shit we have as politicians and find a new way to govern ourselves.
This deal indicates to anyone with a brain that the ballot box no longer functions properly in this country and if we don't mend it soon so it does then the recourse will have to be more forthright
Mr. Gin, I'd urge you not to do that. Vote Labour by all means when they aren't led by a socialist who describes himself as a friend of Hamas, but to actively vote for Corbyn would be to seek to revenge one injury by inflicting one still worse upon the nation.
I will be too, Corbyn will be short term and will temporarily break the uk. That means we will need to live within our means. It also means hopefully people will start to realise we need to kick out the shower of shit we have as politicians and find a new way to govern ourselves.
This deal indicates to anyone with a brain that the ballot box no longer functions properly in this country and if we don't mend it soon so it does then the recourse will have to be more forthright
If you are working class there is a logic in voting for Brexit, to reduce immigration and then Corbyn, to end austerity and hit the rich and the corporations. However if you are middle class and think Corbyn will see us 'live within our means' you are sadly mistaken, it will be a spending spree on the NHS and welfare and nationalised railways and utilities funded by McDonnell squeezing the wealthy and the rich with tax rises.
It may be the middle class will have to suck it up for the next decade although politics could be like the 1970s, with governments and majorities coming and going from one general election to the next.
From 1970 to 1980 there were 4 general elections, 4 different PMs and 1 hung parliament
Mr. Gin, I'd urge you not to do that. Vote Labour by all means when they aren't led by a socialist who describes himself as a friend of Hamas, but to actively vote for Corbyn would be to seek to revenge one injury by inflicting one still worse upon the nation.
I will be too, Corbyn will be short term and will temporarily break the uk. That means we will need to live within our means. It also means hopefully people will start to realise we need to kick out the shower of shit we have as politicians and find a new way to govern ourselves.
This deal indicates to anyone with a brain that the ballot box no longer functions properly in this country and if we don't mend it soon so it does then the recourse will have to be more forthright
If you are working class there is a logic in voting for Brexit, to reduce immigration and then Corbyn, to end austerity and hit the rich and the corporations.
It may be the middle class will have to suck it up for the next decade although politics could be like the 1970s, with governments and majorities coming and going from one general election to the next.
From 1970 to 1980 there were 4 general elections, 4 different PMs and 1 hung parliament
Its got nothing to do with any of that
I don't care about the quantity of immigration I care about the quality. It makes no sense to import min wage workers
I don't care about austerity I think that there should be a damn sight more of it.
The conservatives used to be a party of low tax and small state. They ceased to be that. The only route I find I have now to get to a country that is governed that way is to bankrupt the country in the short term so we emerge fitter and leaner the other side. Yes there will be pain but in the long term we will be better off.
The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one
However upset people get, whoever they vote for, they are not going to get a Hard Brexit because Parliament won't vote for one.
May won't deliver it.
And there's even less chance of Corbyn delivering it - because even if he was PM the likes of Umunna, Cooper, Benn, Kendall, Kinnock, Creasy, Creagh, Jarvis, Woodcock, Streeting [the list goes on and on and on] will not vote for it.
So it CAN NOT HAPPEN - however upset anyone gets and however much anyone wildly lashes out.
Evening all. A spectacular weekend in London, with Roger Waters at Hyde Park BST yesterday and an England masterclasss today.
Meanwhile, St Theresa does a deal that just about holds her cabinet together until Barnier points out why it cannot be. At which point Fire and Brimstone rain down upon her from all sides. She is toast.
However upset people get, whoever they vote for, they are not going to get a Hard Brexit because Parliament won't vote for one.
May won't deliver it.
And there's even less chance of Corbyn delivering it - because even if he was PM the likes of Umunna, Cooper, Benn, Kendall, Kinnock, Creasy, Creagh, Jarvis, Woodcock, Streeting [the list goes on and on and on] will not vote for it.
So it CAN NOT HAPPEN - however upset anyone gets and however much anyone wildly lashes out.
Then politicians need to remember they work for us not the other way round and if they keep trying to push that line there will be trouble
Mr. Gin, I'd urge you not to do that. Vote Labour by all means when they aren't led by a socialist who describes himself as a friend of Hamas, but to actively vote for Corbyn would be to seek to revenge one injury by inflicting one still worse upon the nation.
I will be too, Corbyn will be short term and will temporarily break the uk. That means we will need to live within our means. It also means hopefully people will start to realise we need to kick out the shower of shit we have as politicians and find a new way to govern ourselves.
This deal indicates to anyone with a brain that the ballot box no longer functions properly in this country and if we don't mend it soon so it does then the recourse will have to be more forthright
If you are ment
Its got nothing to do with any of that
I don't care about the quantity of immigration I care about the quality. It makes no sense to import min wage workers
I don't care about austerity I think that there should be a damn sight more of it.
The conservatives used to be a party of low tax and small state. They ceased to be that. The only route I find I have now to get to a country that is governed that way is to bankrupt the country in the short term so we emerge fitter and leaner the other side. Yes there will be pain but in the long term we will be better off.
The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one
It has everything to do with that and indeed you have just proved my point as it is too many low skilled min wage migrants the working class primarily voted Leave to reduce.
You may not care about austerity, Corbyn and McDonnell certainly do and will not only definitely not have any more of it but will go on a spending spree unparalleled by any government for decades, funded by big tax rises on the wealthy and the rich.
Spending as a percentage of gdp is now down to about 42% from the 47% Brown left, Corbyn and McDonnell will likely take it closer to if not over 50% and will certainly restore the 50% top income tax rate Darling left but Osborne cut. If you assume the voters want to slash spending to Singapore levels you are sadly mistaken, even Osborne got the boot before he could lower spending to anywhere near his target of 35% of gdp because of your Brexit vote, so if you voted Leave to replace Cameron and Osborne ultimately you may have ended up with Corbyn and McDonnell and have ironically in effect voted to end austerity not increase it.
"The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one."
I can understand your frustration. When the Neville brothers used to play for England, I used to get annoyed. Their sister Tracy plated netball for England and I'd have called her up instead. If you've got two Neville tits playing for England, you may as well have the genuine article.
On a slightly more serious note. We've got May's non-Brexit, Corbyn's Schrodinger Brexit, and the LDs trying to hump the EU to death. That only leaves UKIP or abstain, so it's the former because that annoys the Remainers more.
The excitement of the Russians is palpable. They have already got past one team better than them and they think that they can do it again.
Realistically I’ve not seen anything that could live with the England that played today. They were excellent. The England that scraped past Columbia would have a harder time.
I don't care about the quantity of immigration I care about the quality. It makes no sense to import min wage workers
I don't care about austerity I think that there should be a damn sight more of it.
The conservatives used to be a party of low tax and small state. They ceased to be that. The only route I find I have now to get to a country that is governed that way is to bankrupt the country in the short term so we emerge fitter and leaner the other side. Yes there will be pain but in the long term we will be better off.
The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one
It has everything to do with that and indeed you have just proved my point as it is too many low skilled min wage migrants the working class primarily voted Leave to reduce.
You may not care about austerity, Corbyn and McDonnell certainly do and will not only definitely not have any more of it but will go on a spending spree unparalleled by any government for decades, funded by big tax rises on the wealthy and the rich.
Spending as a percentage of gdp is now down to about 42% from the 47% Brown left, Corbyn and McDonnell will likely take it closer to if not over 50% and will certainly restore the 50% top income tax rate Darling left but Osborne cut. If you assume the voters want to slash spending to Singapore levels you are sadly mistaken, even Osborne got the boot before he could lower spending to anywhere near his target of 35% of gdp because of your Brexit vote, so if you voted Leave to replace Cameron and Osborne ultimately you may have ended up with Corbyn and McDonnell and have ironically in effect voted to end austerity not increase it.
Did you not read what I said? Obviously not. Yes Corbyn and McDonnel will go on a spending splurge, I see that as a plus I hope they bankrupt us. That means we have to start living within our means. That means cutting back the state signifigantly. I have no party to vote for that has aims like mine so I will vote for a party that will bring about what I want even if it is inadvertently
However upset people get, whoever they vote for, they are not going to get a Hard Brexit because Parliament won't vote for one.
May won't deliver it.
And there's even less chance of Corbyn delivering it - because even if he was PM the likes of Umunna, Cooper, Benn, Kendall, Kinnock, Creasy, Creagh, Jarvis, Woodcock, Streeting [the list goes on and on and on] will not vote for it.
So it CAN NOT HAPPEN - however upset anyone gets and however much anyone wildly lashes out.
Parliament does not have to vote for Hard Brexit. Hard Brexit is the default option. It is what happens if: Parliament votes against the deal Parliament votes for the deal and the EU point out they already vetoed it Parliament votes for the deal, the commission fudge acceptance and France/Ireland/Slovakia?someone votes against
However upset people get, whoever they vote for, they are not going to get a Hard Brexit because Parliament won't vote for one.
May won't deliver it.
And there's even less chance of Corbyn delivering it - because even if he was PM the likes of Umunna, Cooper, Benn, Kendall, Kinnock, Creasy, Creagh, Jarvis, Woodcock, Streeting [the list goes on and on and on] will not vote for it.
So it CAN NOT HAPPEN - however upset anyone gets and however much anyone wildly lashes out.
This is not so. Hard Brexit is now the default outcome in eight months, three weeks and a day in the absence of HMG, the EU, Parliament, the European Parliament, etc, coming to an alternative agreement.
I don't care about the quantity of immigration I care about the quality. It makes no sense to import min wage workers
I don't care about austerity I think that there should be a damn sight more of it.
The conservatives used to be a party of low tax and small state. They ceased to be that. The only route I find I have now to get to a country that is governed that way is to bankrupt the country in the short term so we emerge fitter and leaner the other side. Yes there will be pain but in the long term we will be better off.
The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one
It has everything to do with that and indeed you have just proved my point as it is too many low skilled min wage migrants the working class primarily voted Leave to reduce.
You may not care about austerity, Corbyn and McDonnell certainly do and will not only definitely not have any more of it but will go on a spending spree unparalleled by any government for decades, funded by big tax rises on the wealthy and the rich.
Spending as a percentall and have ironically in effect voted to end austerity not increase it.
Did you not read what I said? Obviously not. Yes Corbyn and McDonnel will go on a spending splurge, I see that as a plus I hope they bankrupt us. That means we have to start living within our means. That means cutting back the state signifigantly. I have no party to vote for that has aims like mine so I will vote for a party that will bring about what I want even if it is inadvertently
If you think voters are going to vote for Corbyn to increase spending after almost a decade of austerity then change their mind the next general election and vote for a party promising to take spending down to Singapore levels and slash funds for the NHS etc you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Though if slashing spending and Brexit is the be all and end all for you I suggest the UK Libertarian Party may be an option, given their commitment to lower taxes, small government and leaving the EU and replacing it with free trade agreements
Don't worry, the EU's "non!" will come to their rescue......
Glad to see "German car makers will give us a good deal" is still alive and well.
It's the hope that kills ya...
So the EU are going to buckle to May's "take it or leave it" proposal? Interesting.....
If it becomes apparent that there will be No Deal, in November, will the parties try to reach agreement to keep planes flying, capital markets functioning, lorries moving, or not?
Don't worry, the EU's "non!" will come to their rescue......
Glad to see "German car makers will give us a good deal" is still alive and well.
It's the hope that kills ya...
So the EU are going to buckle to May's "take it or leave it" proposal? Interesting.....
If it becomes apparent that there will be No Deal, in November, will the parties try to reach agreement to keep planes flying, capital markets functioning, lorries moving, or not?
No, they will offer an extension to Article 50 and May will accept it.
What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
Although on paper they’re the better team, and although I would relish the chance to watch us try and bring down Vlad a peg or two, I would rather face Croatia in the next round. The home team advantage makes me nervous...
What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
The Nazi reference was from another interview and "people in this country have had enough of experts" is verbatim what he says in that clip. The context only provides a slim qualification of which experts he is talking about.
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Although on paper they’re the better team, and although I would relish the chance to watch us try and bring down Vlad a peg or two, I would rather face Croatia in the next round. The home team advantage makes me nervous...
Exactly. At least with Croatia we know it will be a straight match.
There’s a way out of it. Parliament refuses to impose common standards in future and the trade arrangement falls. That’s parliaments decision in future. If the headbangers are so sure that this is a terrible arrangement, they’ve got the chance to unwind it in future. Or is the truth that they know they wouldn’t have a majority for that or the type of Brexit they’re espousing, so this is their last chance?
What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
It would have been much more elegant to say in response that Gove is a politician and wordsmith who is a tool.
I think almost everybody except of course Richard Tyndall would agree on that.
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Firstly, that would never be the option on the ballot paper. We have an obligation to live up to our commitments on Northern Ireland.
Secondly, even if it were - the end result would just be a crisis in which the government would be humiliated à la Tsipras.
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.
The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
What? Words are everyone's tool, and everybody chooses them carefully. And the words he "very deliberately chose" don't include the words you initially said he used. You are a liar.
As Lord Hope said in the Supreme Court : “ But Lord Advocate, words are all we have.”
I was surprised by how good Gove was in that debate, despite Faisal’s incredibly partisan approach. It was an important step towards the result.
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.
The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.
We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
I don't care about the quantity of immigration I care about the quality. It makes no sense to import min wage workers
I don't care about austerity I think that there should be a damn sight more of it.
The conservatives used to be a party of low tax and small state. They ceased to be that. The only route I find I have now to get to a country that is governed that way is to bankrupt the country in the short term so we emerge fitter and leaner the other side. Yes there will be pain but in the long term we will be better off.
The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one
It has everything to do with that and indeed you have just proved my point as it is too many low skilled min wage migrants the working class primarily voted Leave to reduce.
You may not care about austerity, Corbyn and McDonnell certainly do and will not only definitely not have any more of it but will go on a spending spree unparalleled by any government for decades, funded by big tax rises on the wealthy and the rich.
Spending as a percentall and have ironically in effect voted to end austerity not increase it.
Did you not read what I said? Obviously not. Yes Corbyn and McDonnel will go on a spending splurge, I see that as a plus I hope they bankrupt us. That means we have to start living within our means. That means cutting back the state signifigantly. I have no party to vote for that has aims like mine so I will vote for a party that will bring about what I want even if it is inadvertently
If you think voters are going to vote for Corbyn to increase spending after almost a decade of austerity then change their mind the next general election and vote for a party promising to take spending down to Singapore levels and slash funds for the NHS etc you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Though if slashing spending and Brexit is the be all and end all for you I suggest the UK Libertarian Party may be an option, given their commitment to lower taxes, small government and leaving the EU and replacing it with free trade agreements
I was indeed a paid up member when chris mounsie was in charge, andrew withers however who took over was in my opinion a conman out for a quick buck so I left
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.
The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.
We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
This is a betting site, so statements about the future should always come with odds attached. Nothing is ever certain.
Even supposing she doesn't fire them if they break the pact, how can any of them be trusted if they do so? They were publicly confirmed to support this position, a final position, only by claiming idiocy can they now say they do not, in fact, support it as it is not what they thought it was, or they now see the light about its awfulness.
It does seem telling though if they have all been quiet. Having been associated with it as a united Cabinet, not being supportive of it right away smacks of waiting to see the reaction of the ERG crowd, and any sudden poll movements perhaps, so they can indeed back out.
But I don't see how anyone who was in that room and emerged from it still in the Cabinet after agreeing this deal, can repudiate it and have any credibility as a leadership candidate ever again, so any challenge to May would need to coalesce around someone like Rees Mogg.
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.
The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.
We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
I am not predicting, simply noting it as a route out of this mess.
The terms we leave on ultimately come down to Mrs May’s willingness to eat FOM in exchange for privileged access to the single market. It’s as simple as that.
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.
The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.
We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
I am not predicting, simply noting it as a route out of this mess.
The terms we leave on ultimately come down to Mrs May’s willingness to eat FOM in exchange for privileged access to the single market. It’s as simple as that.
As long as the deal protects business I am content with that
Sadly, Brexiters failed to come up with a viable alternative, having spent the past two years accusing everyone else of sabotage while wanking furiously to the sound of Land of Hope and Glory.
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
Except there seems every chance a vote (by which I assume you mean nationwide referendum) on the deal would see it voted down and an exit to WTO terms.
Only a madman would enable such a referendum. There is no desire in the country for WTO, and only a small minority of nutters in Parliament would actually countenance such a path.
The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
But it won't be. I am afraid there are too many people on this board who allow the wish to be father to the thought on this.
We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
This is a betting site, so statements about the future should always come with odds attached. Nothing is ever certain.
There were not - any outcome which involves leaving the EU in some way is legitimate. Of course, what the public expects or will demand as a result of the campaign and their own desires mean some options are non-starters and others a bad idea.
Remember all the posts on here when Cameron backed gay marriage - all the headbanging diehards would never vote Con again and he'd be thrown out at the next GE.
Action replay now taking place.
Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.
The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.
I think subverting the biggest ever democratic vote in the UK's history is a tad more serious than gay marriage - Which was in any case a manifesto commitment - Who can be critical of a government enacting it's manifesto?
If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
I agree the two issues are not a great comparison, although whether it will be as destructive as some think I am uncertain on. I think it more likely Con will take a hit enough to definitely lose the next election, without being demolished.
Comments
Betting PostF1: backed two bets (one of which is just Mr. B's, to be honest).
The other is Bottas each way at 17 for the win. Given the misfortune, racing mistakes and strategy blunders, it would not be surprising if Vettel and/or Hamilton suffered some form of woe or other.
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/07/uk-pre-race-2018.html
A Corbyn Brexit would be just as fudged as a May Brexit if not more so, so a vote for Corbyn if you want hard Brexit does not mean much though I suppose you assume May or Javid will lose and then Rees-Mogg will take over as Leader of the Opposition sweeping to victory against PM Corbyn at the subsequent general election on a hard Brexit platform? There are certainly no guarantees of that
Take your pick what we look to reverse.
Action replay now taking place.
Of course many people feel very passionately and many people are very upset. But that doesn't mean that all political reason will be thrown out of the window.
The best guide to the political effect of what happened last night is that it wasn't even the lead story on most of the tabloids.
found this on youtube 3 Lions from Corpus Christi College, Oxford. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnS1sTCy1ZU
https://twitter.com/richardbannan/status/1015174995037868032
I think Kane is far too short given what Pickford did today, but I guess it's the captaincy factor that's driving the price.
If only Theresa May was prepared to stick by her manifesto...
No doubt Theresa May would support Belgium...
Thought not. That’s why Three Lions is the best football song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FZnHtTDfY4
Theresa May can just about claim her red lines are intact but the distinction will be lost on most Leavers who thought they were voting for reduced immigration.
Strong and stable my arse
This deal indicates to anyone with a brain that the ballot box no longer functions properly in this country and if we don't mend it soon so it does then the recourse will have to be more forthright
- The liberty to consume
- The liberty to be served
- The liberty to borrow
- The liberty to roam
It may be the middle class will have to suck it up for the next decade although politics could be like the 1970s, with governments and majorities coming and going from one general election to the next.
From 1970 to 1980 there were 4 general elections, 4 different PMs and 1 hung parliament
But can you actually believe a word she says?
I don't care about the quantity of immigration I care about the quality. It makes no sense to import min wage workers
I don't care about austerity I think that there should be a damn sight more of it.
The conservatives used to be a party of low tax and small state. They ceased to be that. The only route I find I have now to get to a country that is governed that way is to bankrupt the country in the short term so we emerge fitter and leaner the other side. Yes there will be pain but in the long term we will be better off.
The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one
May won't deliver it.
And there's even less chance of Corbyn delivering it - because even if he was PM the likes of Umunna, Cooper, Benn, Kendall, Kinnock, Creasy, Creagh, Jarvis, Woodcock, Streeting [the list goes on and on and on] will not vote for it.
So it CAN NOT HAPPEN - however upset anyone gets and however much anyone wildly lashes out.
Meanwhile, St Theresa does a deal that just about holds her cabinet together until Barnier points out why it cannot be. At which point Fire and Brimstone rain down upon her from all sides. She is toast.
You may not care about austerity, Corbyn and McDonnell certainly do and will not only definitely not have any more of it but will go on a spending spree unparalleled by any government for decades, funded by big tax rises on the wealthy and the rich.
Spending as a percentage of gdp is now down to about 42% from the 47% Brown left, Corbyn and McDonnell will likely take it closer to if not over 50% and will certainly restore the 50% top income tax rate Darling left but Osborne cut. If you assume the voters want to slash spending to Singapore levels you are sadly mistaken, even Osborne got the boot before he could lower spending to anywhere near his target of 35% of gdp because of your Brexit vote, so if you voted Leave to replace Cameron and Osborne ultimately you may have ended up with Corbyn and McDonnell and have ironically in effect voted to end austerity not increase it.
"The conservatives are now just another left wing magic money tree party. If I have to vote for one I might as well vote for a proper one."
I can understand your frustration. When the Neville brothers used to play for England, I used to get annoyed. Their sister Tracy plated netball for England and I'd have called her up instead. If you've got two Neville tits playing for England, you may as well have the genuine article.
On a slightly more serious note. We've got May's non-Brexit, Corbyn's Schrodinger Brexit, and the LDs trying to hump the EU to death. That only leaves UKIP or abstain, so it's the former because that annoys the Remainers more.
It's the hope that kills ya...
Realistically I’ve not seen anything that could live with the England that played today. They were excellent. The England that scraped past Columbia would have a harder time.
Parliament votes against the deal
Parliament votes for the deal and the EU point out they already vetoed it
Parliament votes for the deal, the commission fudge acceptance and France/Ireland/Slovakia?someone votes against
An alternative agreement does not look likely.
There were no flavours on the ballot paper...
As everyone has noted above, the EU will refuse to budge (much) on FOM, and without that we are out of the single market and therefore starving the golden goose of the U.K. economy: service exports.
The only way out of this mess is a Vote on the Deal, once we have finished “negotiations” with the EU.
I think almost everybody except of course Richard Tyndall would agree on that.
https://twitter.com/skydavidblevins/status/1015669038742196226
Secondly, even if it were - the end result would just be a crisis in which the government would be humiliated à la Tsipras.
The vote on the Deal should be, endorse May’s negotiated Brexit or Remain.
To misquote Lady Bracknell, one duff overrule may be considered a misfortune. To make two in two points looks like gross incompetence.
I was surprised by how good Gove was in that debate, despite Faisal’s incredibly partisan approach. It was an important step towards the result.
We are leaving. That was settled in 2016 and is therefore not the question any more. The question is what terms we leave on.
It does seem telling though if they have all been quiet. Having been associated with it as a united Cabinet, not being supportive of it right away smacks of waiting to see the reaction of the ERG crowd, and any sudden poll movements perhaps, so they can indeed back out.
But I don't see how anyone who was in that room and emerged from it still in the Cabinet after agreeing this deal, can repudiate it and have any credibility as a leadership candidate ever again, so any challenge to May would need to coalesce around someone like Rees Mogg.
The terms we leave on ultimately come down to Mrs May’s willingness to eat FOM in exchange for privileged access to the single market. It’s as simple as that.
*football's home may move from time to time