I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.
If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.
But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
Why hasn’t Davis resigned in disgust/protest then?
Andrea Leadsom is available best-priced at 22-1 and could be the value on current prices.Many of us have already bought and sold Mogg,Davis and Johnson as back-to-lays.Others have backed Gove,Hunt and Javid at double figure odds. She is a mum with a nice smile but more importantly,has run well in this particular race before and any future prediction is best predicated upon past performance.She made it to the final 2 last time.She's in good form on the speech circuits of the Tory party. Leadsom at 22-1 is too big.She's a player.
Realistically, how many Leavers can get the noninations to get on the MPs ballot? Does Leadsome get squeezed out of nominations this time by Javid, Gove, Boris, even Hunt or does the relative social liberalism of those three/four still leave her room for nomination if the ERG fragments?
Candidate list: 3 social liberal leavers (with Ruth a critically important backer), 1 social conservative leaver, 1 advocating very soft Brexit. Candidate will be whoever of the three can survive the vote split of the early rounds, as remainy candidate gets through first round and social conservative makes the final three.
Looks like Mexico are joining the league of international populists. I wonder how Trump will react to the new Mexican president and vice versa. I think it could be quite positive.
If Mexico lose to Brazil, the populists might have him gone by breakfast....
The new Mexican President is also a close friend of Jeremy Corbyn and both share a similar populist left ideology while of course Corbyn's wife is Mexican
If CCHQ does attack Corbyn over whatever it is the new president does next, at least it will have found a country most voters can place on a map -- unlike Venezuela.
I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.
If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.
But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
If this were true, then DD should have resigned in protest. If your PM is going to undermine you so completely, then what is the point in being there!?
Hopefully a mistake he will rectify.
I see two possibilities as more likely; 1) DD signed off on the deal, perhaps for the reason of reducing the headline bill 2) he's not a details guy and didn't notice how he was getting screwed.
Looks like Mexico are joining the league of international populists. I wonder how Trump will react to the new Mexican president and vice versa. I think it could be quite positive.
If Mexico lose to Brazil, the populists might have him gone by breakfast....
The new Mexican President is also a close friend of Jeremy Corbyn and both share a similar populist left ideology while of course Corbyn's wife is Mexican
If CCHQ does attack Corbyn over whatever it is the new president does next, at least it will have found a country most voters can place on a map -- unlike Venezuela.
The 'special relationship' would move from Washington and London to Mexico City and London under Corbyn certainly, unless of course Bernie Sanders wins in 2020
Andrea Leadsom is available best-priced at 22-1 and could be the value on current prices.Many of us have already bought and sold Mogg,Davis and Johnson as back-to-lays.Others have backed Gove,Hunt and Javid at double figure odds. She is a mum with a nice smile but more importantly,has run well in this particular race before and any future prediction is best predicated upon past performance.She made it to the final 2 last time.She's in good form on the speech circuits of the Tory party. Leadsom at 22-1 is too big.She's a player.
Massively disagree, Leadsom is amongst those I've laid to zero around this price.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
I’ll be quite happy to lose that bet if it meant Thersa May saw off the ERG mob.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.
If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.
But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
If this were true, then DD should have resigned in protest. If your PM is going to undermine you so completely, then what is the point in being there!?
Hopefully a mistake he will rectify.
I see two possibilities as more likely; 1) DD signed off on the deal, perhaps for the reason of reducing the headline bill 2) he's not a details guy and didn't notice how he was getting screwed.
May agreed this deal. She didn't care how much we got screwed because she was desperate for a good headline before Christmas. The EU were going to move on to serious trade talks, remember?
I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.
If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.
But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
If this were true, then DD should have resigned in protest. If your PM is going to undermine you so completely, then what is the point in being there!?
Hopefully a mistake he will rectify.
I see two possibilities as more likely; 1) DD signed off on the deal, perhaps for the reason of reducing the headline bill 2) he's not a details guy and didn't notice how he was getting screwed.
It is reported in All Out War that Mr Robbins felt he did not have to tell DD everything that was going on because he reported to May who he did tell. DD's failing is in being a complete patsy.
I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.
If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.
But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
If this were true, then DD should have resigned in protest. If your PM is going to undermine you so completely, then what is the point in being there!?
Hopefully a mistake he will rectify.
I see two possibilities as more likely; 1) DD signed off on the deal, perhaps for the reason of reducing the headline bill 2) he's not a details guy and didn't notice how he was getting screwed.
May agreed this deal. She didn't care how much we got screwed because she was desperate for a good headline before Christmas. The EU were going to move on to serious trade talks, remember?
She's the PM - of course she agreed the deal. But DD undoubtedly agreed it as well. If he didn't agree, on such a fundamental issue, then he should/would have resigned at the time.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.
If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.
But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
If this were true, then DD should have resigned in protest. If your PM is going to undermine you so completely, then what is the point in being there!?
Hopefully a mistake he will rectify.
I see two possibilities as more likely; 1) DD signed off on the deal, perhaps for the reason of reducing the headline bill 2) he's not a details guy and didn't notice how he was getting screwed.
It is reported in All Out War that Mr Robbins felt he did not have to tell DD everything that was going on because he reported to May who he did tell. DD's failing is in being a complete patsy.
It's his job to know what was in that settlement. If he didn't know, then that is just as damning as having negotiated the thing in the first place.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
I believe my sparring partner of, what, 13 years, is taking ribald advantage of my infelictous phrasing.
Looks like Mexico are joining the league of international populists. I wonder how Trump will react to the new Mexican president and vice versa. I think it could be quite positive.
If Mexico lose to Brazil, the populists might have him gone by breakfast....
The new Mexican President is also a close friend of Jeremy Corbyn and both share a similar populist left ideology while of course Corbyn's wife is Mexican
If CCHQ does attack Corbyn over whatever it is the new president does next, at least it will have found a country most voters can place on a map -- unlike Venezuela.
The 'special relationship' would move from Washington and London to Mexico City and London under Corbyn certainly, unless of course Bernie Sanders wins in 2020
Washington and Paris now, at least till the Donald meets the American camembert lobby.
Well, I'm still hoping for a deal, since no deal crash Brexit is descend into the public square and force reversal or bring down the government by mass protest time (always assuming they need help imploding). Scendere in piazza is an honourable, democratic tradition - as I'm sure is counter protest.
A deal involving most of the following is where I hope we can be:
- Following of virtually all SM rules on trade and standards, based on mutual recognition - Standstill transition as discussed. - An early deal on post-trasition day 1 participation in critical areas, e.g. Euratom, air traffic - A high level outline on future trade relations pending more talks - we will have to accept that most of the cherries here will be picked by the EU and Ireland, but we can hope to nick a few. Some UK sectors for which Europe would prefer to compete harder will get a rough deal. (Essentially we will be following almost all trade rules for a percentage of access) - Extended Customs transition, duration as needed based on EU accepting one of our customs proposals - No formal SM and an end to automatic FoM - No formal CU at end of extra transition - All ongoing payments transactional for specific participations - ECJ accepted for limited and specific technical participations only
And separately this will give us: - Some freedom to strike trade deals on a 'here are our rules' basis - Separation from the federalising ambitions of some in the EU - The ability to pull some jolly accounting wheeze to fund the NHS
Dear Brexiteer, deliver me something like this, and I solemnly promise not to sabotage your flight of fancy.
Perfect cherry picking !
Well, they said they could. They still say they can. I maintain my hope that a good amount of this is possible and that we are simply at the teeth sucking phase of negotiation as per the run up to last December. Let's hold our politicians to their word and hope.The doom can wait a few weeks.
I've made clear it is not sunlit uplands, the limits to our market access would still be pretty painful even if we achieve all that I set out.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
I’ll be quite happy to lose that bet if it meant Thersa May saw off the ERG mob.
For sure but what would the likes of Raab, Baker, Mordaunt, Gove and the other hard line Brexiteers in government do? This is potentially far more destabilising for the party than in Major’s time. I intend to get sloshed when we get together.
Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
JRM is only a pawn in the game.
Others have used him as a pawn sacrifice in order to bring down the Queen.
If it is not Number 10 moving against the Moggster then Theresa May should be worried because it means someone else is on manoeuvres. In the past few days, Boris, Gavin Williamson and now Rees-Mogg have been kneecapped. These things don't happen by accident.
Except it's a good way to communicate with constituents effectively for free - although how many people follow their MPs on Twitter is another matter.
But what they should avoid is getting into Twitter spats.
I’d doubt its more than a few hundred, at best, in each constituency.
Out of an electorate of c.70,000 that’s not many. But, I think Twitter tends to have disproportionate engagement from local journalists and community leaders, so MPs view it as a useful way of getting their message out.
Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
JRM is only a pawn in the game.
Others have used him as a pawn sacrifice in order to bring down the Queen.
If it is not Number 10 moving against the Moggster then Theresa May should be worried because it means someone else is on manoeuvres. In the past few days, Boris, Gavin Williamson and now Rees-Mogg have been kneecapped. These things don't happen by accident.
If by kneecapped you mean shot themselves in the foot. But missed, due to incompetence.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
I believe my sparring partner of, what, 13 years, is taking ribald advantage of my infelictous phrasing.
Well quite. These days you have to get your fun where you can.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
I’ll be quite happy to lose that bet if it meant Thersa May saw off the ERG mob.
For sure but what would the likes of Raab, Baker, Mordaunt, Gove and the other hard line Brexiteers in government do? This is potentially far more destabilising for the party than in Major’s time. I intend to get sloshed when we get together.
I think we should get a Nebuchadnezzar sized bottle of champagne this time and let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings.
It truly is depressing time.
What a difference from that glorious night and morning of May 2015.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.
They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?
If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
I agree. We cannot carry on like this much longer drifting from customs idea to customs idea which the Cabinet let alone the EU can't or won't agree to.
This is about the future direction of this country for the next decade and more - not the short term political future of Tory MPs or getting May though another month. She promised voters a certain sort of Brexit - now she has done a 180 degree u turn. There is just no direction as we veer from headline to headline and crisis Cabinet meeting to crisis summit.
It's time to stand up and be counted - because we need direction and Leadership and May simply can't or wont give that. Or as Meryl Streep (as Baroness Thatcher) might have said either you stand on principle or you do not stand at all.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
How negative a phrase is the Lib Dems considering the blue meanies polled over 5 times what the LDs did at the last election.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions.
It has always been a Party of factions and has been successful when it has reconciled these divisions within a higher objective. But quite apart from the electoral reasons for remaining within one party, the reality is that for all that there might be different interpretations of conservatism, these interpretations *are* all elements of conservatism and have their home in the Conservative Party.
There'd be more truth in saying that the Lib Dems should split, with the Liberals joining the Conservatives, the Social Democrats joining Labour, and the pothole-pointers standing as Independents.
I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.
They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?
If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
You don't understand the Tory party leadership election process, do you?
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
How negative a phrase is the Lib Dems considering the blue meanies polled over 5 times what the LDs did at the last election.
Didn`t the Conservatives cheat at the last general election? And in the one before? And in the Referendum?
Cheats do prosper for a while, Mr Eagles, but only until everybody else cottons on.
The Conservatives used to have a reputation for honesty and competence.
Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
JRM is only a pawn in the game.
Others have used him as a pawn sacrifice in order to bring down the Queen.
If it is not Number 10 moving against the Moggster then Theresa May should be worried because it means someone else is on manoeuvres. In the past few days, Boris, Gavin Williamson and now Rees-Mogg have been kneecapped. These things don't happen by accident.
Now which cabinet member might have form with the knife, and has been receiving strangely positive press recently... ?
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
How negative a phrase is the Lib Dems considering the blue meanies polled over 5 times what the LDs did at the last election.
Didn`t the Conservatives cheat at the last general election? And in the one before? And in the Referendum?
Cheats do prosper for a while, Mr Eagles, but only until everybody else cottons on.
The Conservatives used to have a reputation for honesty and competence.
Nope. The rozzers said all seats were fine bar one seat and that was a Con/UKIP seat and the justice system will decide.
Now this is cheating.
Lib Dems fined £20,000 for undeclared election spending Electoral Commission fines party for failing to declare 307 payments totalling £184,676
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
How negative a phrase is the Lib Dems considering the blue meanies polled over 5 times what the LDs did at the last election.
Didn`t the Conservatives cheat at the last general election? And in the one before? And in the Referendum?
Cheats do prosper for a while, Mr Eagles, but only until everybody else cottons on.
The Conservatives used to have a reputation for honesty and competence.
Nope. The rozzers said all seats were fine bar one seat and that was a Con/UKIP seat and the justice system will decide.
When is that case coming up, seems to have been a while?
I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.
They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?
If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
I agree. We cannot carry on like this much longer drifting from customs idea to customs idea which the Cabinet let alone the EU can't or won't agree to.
This is about the future direction of this country for the next decade and more - not the short term political future of Tory MPs or getting May though another month. She promised voters a certain sort of Brexit - now she has done a 180 degree u turn. There is just no direction as we veer from headline to headline and crisis Cabinet meeting to crisis summit.
It's time to stand up and be counted - because we need direction and Leadership and May simply can't or wont give that. Or as Meryl Streep (as Baroness Thatcher) might have said either you stand on principle or you do not stand at all.
She didn't promise the voters a certain sort of brexit,she promised brexit and how wonderful the con remainers on here who wanted Theresa to be leader and every day knifing her in the back.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
How negative a phrase is the Lib Dems considering the blue meanies polled over 5 times what the LDs did at the last election.
Didn`t the Conservatives cheat at the last general election? And in the one before? And in the Referendum?
Cheats do prosper for a while, Mr Eagles, but only until everybody else cottons on.
The Conservatives used to have a reputation for honesty and competence.
Nope. The rozzers said all seats were fine bar one seat and that was a Con/UKIP seat and the justice system will decide.
When is that case coming up, seems to have been a while?
The trial was meant to start in May 2018 but has been delayed with no new date listed.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
How negative a phrase is the Lib Dems considering the blue meanies polled over 5 times what the LDs did at the last election.
Didn`t the Conservatives cheat at the last general election? And in the one before? And in the Referendum?
Cheats do prosper for a while, Mr Eagles, but only until everybody else cottons on.
The Conservatives used to have a reputation for honesty and competence.
Nope. The rozzers said all seats were fine bar one seat and that was a Con/UKIP seat and the justice system will decide.
Now this is cheating.
Lib Dems fined £20,000 for undeclared election spending Electoral Commission fines party for failing to declare 307 payments totalling £184,676
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
If we'd left I don't think they'd want us back in without some level of guarantee that we intended to stay for good. I suspect that would mean Eurozone membership and they'd either let the politics override the economics, or if they weren't ready, keep us out.
As he watches himself being rogered by the UKIP voting window cleaner his wife had invited round to make up the threesome, I presume ?
Oh God no. Let’s drop this. I occasionally meet some of the protagonists involved and I want to be able to look them in the eye without going to the scary visual place.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
As he watches himself being rogered by the UKIP voting window cleaner his wife had invited round to make up the threesome, I presume ?
Oh God no. Let’s drop this. I occasionally meet some of the protagonists involved and I want to be able to look them in the eye without going to the scary visual place.
Fair enough. I just felt 'a bit regretful' rather undersold it.
I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.
They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?
If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
You don't understand the Tory party leadership election process, do you?
I understand it just fine. There will only be a contest if May is already dead. In that case, the Leavers will have to get behind one Leave candidate especially if Javid is knocking around, since he will just revert to Remain form if he ever gets elected.
So, if we get to a contest AND none of the Leavers resigned before the end, there is going to be a huge credibility problem for Gove/Johnson etc. IF Mogg stands (and he might not) he is going to have a huge advantage because the other candidates are going to have to spend their whole time being asked why they stuck in May's cabinet and didn't resign when it was obvious she was selling out. Meanwhile JRM will be able to pitch himself as the only man of principle.
Tory MPs (and members) are like children. They like whatever is shiny on the day. They love Javid right now because he looks good on TV and has a nice backstory, but he is also an unprincipled chancer. Gove is undermining himself with his fake loyalty to May.
There are more than enough Leaver Tory MPs to get a candidate in the final two. And it is easy to see that JRM is positioning himself in case nobody else resigns until it is too late.
At the end of the day, I understand how the contest will work - anyone who gets momentum during the contest can win. There will have to be a Leaver in the final two. And right now the Cabinet leavers are killing their chances by refusing to stand up to May.
My prediction is that Boris will resign, wield the knife and win. But JRM is certainly well positioned if there is another scenario.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
There'd be more truth in saying that the Lib Dems should split, with the Liberals joining the Conservatives, the Social Democrats joining Labour, and the pothole-pointers standing as Independents.
No thanks. I'd rather eat my own toenail clippings than go back to voting Conservative.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
Probably what also worries them is the thought of some of Farage et al getting re-elected to the Parliament.
There'd be more truth in saying that the Lib Dems should split, with the Liberals joining the Conservatives, the Social Democrats joining Labour, and the pothole-pointers standing as Independents.
No thanks. I'd rather eat my own toenail clippings than go back to voting Conservative.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
If the EU leaders want us to stay then that is all that would matter.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
Probably what also worries them is the thought of some of Farage et al getting re-elected to the Parliament.
There'd be more truth in saying that the Lib Dems should split, with the Liberals joining the Conservatives, the Social Democrats joining Labour, and the pothole-pointers standing as Independents.
No thanks. I'd rather eat my own toenail clippings than go back to voting Conservative.
Still a better meal than pineapple on pizza.
Managed to get an Italian friend to try pineapple on pizza. She said it's not bad. Its not pizza, but not bad.
Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
JRM is only a pawn in the game.
Others have used him as a pawn sacrifice in order to bring down the Queen.
If it is not Number 10 moving against the Moggster then Theresa May should be worried because it means someone else is on manoeuvres. In the past few days, Boris, Gavin Williamson and now Rees-Mogg have been kneecapped. These things don't happen by accident.
Now which cabinet member might have form with the knife, and has been receiving strangely positive press recently... ?
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
Probably what also worries them is the thought of some of Farage et al getting re-elected to the Parliament.
Amazingly our voting system acts as a block on populist parties from enterinf Parliament, however, the voice of the people is still usually heard over time (Brexit). It's places like Italy which have some kind of PR that end up legitimising populist parties like Lega.
The worry would be leave voters deserting the Tory party, either by voting for hard Brexit Jez or staying home. That would be the end of us as a political force for a generation.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
Probably what also worries them is the thought of some of Farage et al getting re-elected to the Parliament.
There'd be more truth in saying that the Lib Dems should split, with the Liberals joining the Conservatives, the Social Democrats joining Labour, and the pothole-pointers standing as Independents.
No thanks. I'd rather eat my own toenail clippings than go back to voting Conservative.
Still a better meal than pineapple on pizza.
Sorry, I'm very firmly in the pro-pineapple on pizza camp. It might even be my favourite pizza topping - though it's a close run thing with anchovies as the main rival.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
If the EU leaders want us to stay then that is all that would matter.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem that way, the commission has shown time and again it is far, far more powerful than anyone believes or was led to believe. Again, reinforcing the decision to leave that undemocratic rabble well behind.
There'd be more truth in saying that the Lib Dems should split, with the Liberals joining the Conservatives, the Social Democrats joining Labour, and the pothole-pointers standing as Independents.
No thanks. I'd rather eat my own toenail clippings than go back to voting Conservative.
Still a better meal than pineapple on pizza.
Sorry, I'm very firmly in the pro-pineapple on pizza camp. It might even be my favourite pizza topping - though it's a close run thing with anchovies as the main rival.
I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.
They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?
If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
You don't understand the Tory party leadership election process, do you?
I understand it just fine. There will only be a contest if May is already dead. In that case, the Leavers will have to get behind one Leave candidate especially if Javid is knocking around, since he will just revert to Remain form if he ever gets elected.
Nor do you understand Javid's views on Leave/Remain which undermines the rest of your analysis.
Elite universities must do more to attract young people from parts of the country swayed by the populism of President Trump, the new president of Harvard has said."
I understand it just fine. There will only be a contest if May is already dead. In that case, the Leavers will have to get behind one Leave candidate especially if Javid is knocking around, since he will just revert to Remain form if he ever gets elected.
So, if we get to a contest AND none of the Leavers resigned before the end, there is going to be a huge credibility problem for Gove/Johnson etc. IF Mogg stands (and he might not) he is going to have a huge advantage because the other candidates are going to have to spend their whole time being asked why they stuck in May's cabinet and didn't resign when it was obvious she was selling out. Meanwhile JRM will be able to pitch himself as the only man of principle.
Tory MPs (and members) are like children. They like whatever is shiny on the day. They love Javid right now because he looks good on TV and has a nice backstory, but he is also an unprincipled chancer. Gove is undermining himself with his fake loyalty to May.
At the end of the day, I understand how the contest will work - anyone who gets momentum during the contest can win. There will have to be a Leaver in the final two. And right now the Cabinet leavers are killing their chances by refusing to stand up to May.
My prediction is that Boris will resign, wield the knife and win. But JRM is certainly well positioned if there is another scenario.
I think you're wrong on most of your main predictions.
1. Boris won't resign (not least because May would bend to accommodate him but also because he doesn't have the balls); 2. Whether or not Boris resigns, he won't win: he's too flaky and full of hot air; 3. For all the fuss about Brexit, whoever wins has to lead the Party into the 2022GE (or earlier), which means they have to demonstrate some capacity for the boring bits of highest office; 4. Corbyn remains Labour leader - this is not an election to risk losing, so safe options carry a premium, while JRM is the riskiest choice; 5. JRM probably will not stand but if he does, he will lose - most MPs, even within the ERG will make decisions where Brexit is only one factor; 6. JRM's personal and political actions in non-Brexit areas would be unattractive to the public and easy to run a campaign against; 7. Not resigning from May's cabinet is not necessarily a negative, though Boris/Heathrow is; 8. If someone is going to resign, it'll probably be either Gove or Fox but might be Davis; 9. You say 'unprincipled chancer' like it's a bad thing - this is the Party of Disraeli; 10. JRM is sufficiently out of the mainstream that were he a possible contender for the final round, he'd be the subject of negative voting so as to try to ensure that two other candidates went to the membership - and I don't see him having the 100+ MPs necessary to overcome that.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
The only way Brexit will die is if we have a second referendum and the majority of people vote for the Remain option.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
The only way Brexit will die is if we have a second referendum and the majority of people vote for the Remain option.
For a hardcore Brexit-o-loon next Monday, after the Chequers meeting, might be the day Brexit dies.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine the UK paying into the EU budget without rebate - forever.”
What next - we must join the Euro and Schengen? If of course we decided to reverse Article 50 and stay in I presume we would lose the rebate altogether as the price of our humiliation. Is remain as now even an option any more?
That depends, the UK could stay and keep the rebate and the opt-outs for Schengen and the Euro. Nobody wants Brexit to happen, so if the British said they'd stay as long as the terms weren't changed everyone would breathe an exasperated sign of relief.
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I get the opinion that most of the EU top brass don’t want us to Leave, so there’s be a huge sigh of relief and desire to get back to normal as soon as posiible.
The EU leaders want us to stay but it is very clear that the Commission wants us out, the UK is and has always been the roadblock to a federal EU which would need a new treaty/constitution which the UK public would vote down. The rest could be bought/cajoled into signing but the UK wouldn't.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
Probably what also worries them is the thought of some of Farage et al getting re-elected to the Parliament.
Amazingly our voting system acts as a block on populist parties from enterinf Parliament, however, the voice of the people is still usually heard over time (Brexit). It's places like Italy which have some kind of PR that end up legitimising populist parties like Lega.
The worry would be leave voters deserting the Tory party, either by voting for hard Brexit Jez or staying home. That would be the end of us as a political force for a generation.
The PR section mitigated the Lega/M5S win in Italy.
The Lega-led coalition won 111 FPTP seats, and M5S won another 93; he rest won only 28. By contrast, the centre- and far-left opposition won 102 of the PR seats (against 151 and 133 for Lega+ and M5S).
I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.
They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?
If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
You don't understand the Tory party leadership election process, do you?
I understand it just fine. There will only be a contest if May is already dead. In that case, the Leavers will have to get behind one Leave candidate especially if Javid is knocking around, since he will just revert to Remain form if he ever gets elected.
Nor do you understand Javid's views on Leave/Remain which undermines the rest of your analysis.
What is there to understand? A lifetime Eurosceptic who completely abandoned his principles and supported Remain because he thought that they would win and it would help advance his political career. Now trying to look like he is a Leaver again because he realises that the Tory members are not going to elect another Remainer. And such bad judgement that he supported Crabb.
Sorry, he might look nice on the telly but in a leadership contest he will get chewed up and spat out. And I don't doubt for a second that if he ever got elected as leader he would sell out on Brexit in a heartbeat.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
It is looking like the day that Soft Brexit died. The EU have rejected May's new plans before she even publishes them! What a shambles.
CETA should be the outcome, but the forced partition of part of the UK which appears to be demanded should not be acceptable to anyone. No deal is the only sensible and rational approach at this time.
I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.
They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?
If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
You don't understand the Tory party leadership election process, do you?
I understand it just fine. There will only be a contest if May is already dead. In that case, the Leavers will have to get behind one Leave candidate especially if Javid is knocking around, since he will just revert to Remain form if he ever gets elected.
Nor do you understand Javid's views on Leave/Remain which undermines the rest of your analysis.
What is there to understand? A lifetime Eurosceptic who completely abandoned his principles and supported Remain because he thought that they would win and it would help advance his political career. Now trying to look like he is a Leaver again because he realises that the Tory members are not going to elect another Remainer. And such bad judgement that he supported Crabb.
Sorry, he might look nice on the telly but in a leadership contest he will get chewed up and spat out. And I don't doubt for a second that if he ever got elected as leader he would sell out on Brexit in a heartbeat.
Yes but the conclusion you draw is wrong. I think your passion is blinding you to the dynamic at play. He has yet to convince MPs (who I appreciate aren't members) of his europhile credentials and they are wary of supporting him because they fear he might do exactly the opposite of what you suggest, which is to revert to his euroscepticism.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
It is looking like the day that Soft Brexit died. The EU have rejected May's new plans before she even publishes them! What a shambles.
CETA should be the outcome, but the forced partition of part of the UK which appears to be demanded should not be acceptable to anyone. No deal is the only sensible and rational approach at this time.
Do civil servants tell Brussels what our plans are before they tell Ministers.
It might be something incredibly innovative!!
I still think the best option is CETA with us just becoming another province of Canada. At least we might get freedom of movement with a country many Brits would have interest in moving to!! Mrs May just needs to think outside the box - and wait for the Canadian Tories to take over next year.
why are a few AIG jobs more important than the GKN butchery Greg Hands is approving?
Because the country has bet the farm on the banking, financial services and insurance industry whilst some Leavers, like Patrick Minford, want to destroy British manufacturing. Is a no brainer.
We're more important in the grand scheme of things than metal bashers.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
Conservative Progress?
The English Nationalist Party, surely. For that is what the Conservative party has become.
You don't understand the Tory party leadership election process, do you?
I understand it just fine. There will only be a contest if May is already dead. In that case, the Leavers will have to get behind one Leave candidate especially if Javid is knocking around, since he will just revert to Remain form if he ever gets elected.
Nor do you understand Javid's views on Leave/Remain which undermines the rest of your analysis.
What is there to understand? A lifetime Eurosceptic who completely abandoned his principles and supported Remain because he thought that they would win and it would help advance his political career. Now trying to look like he is a Leaver again because he realises that the Tory members are not going to elect another Remainer. And such bad judgement that he supported Crabb.
Sorry, he might look nice on the telly but in a leadership contest he will get chewed up and spat out. And I don't doubt for a second that if he ever got elected as leader he would sell out on Brexit in a heartbeat.
Yes but the conclusion you draw is wrong. I think your passion is blinding you to the dynamic at play. He has yet to convince MPs (who I appreciate aren't members) of his europhile credentials and they are wary of supporting him because they fear he might do exactly the opposite of what you suggest, which is to revert to his euroscepticism.
The dynamic is that if there is a leadership contest anytime soon, a Leaver will win. Unless MPs manage to engineer Javid against a Remainer, he will lose against a real Leaver because the members won't trust him.
The Tories tried a leader who was a Remainer but promised to deliver Brexit - we can see how that is going. No chance it will happen again.
David Herdson's view that Brexit will not be the major factor in choosing a leader I think is 100% wrong - the way May is going, there will be a crisis and it will be about the only factor.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
It is looking like the day that Soft Brexit died. The EU have rejected May's new plans before she even publishes them! What a shambles.
CETA should be the outcome, but the forced partition of part of the UK which appears to be demanded should not be acceptable to anyone. No deal is the only sensible and rational approach at this time.
No-one forced us to invoke Article 50 and invite the EU to play chicken over the Good Friday Agreement.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
It is looking like the day that Soft Brexit died. The EU have rejected May's new plans before she even publishes them! What a shambles.
CETA should be the outcome, but the forced partition of part of the UK which appears to be demanded should not be acceptable to anyone. No deal is the only sensible and rational approach at this time.
Oh well, for this week at least, it looks as if the bastards of the early 1990s will be the same bastards in July 2018. That can’t be a bad thing in itself. But we all know the happy ending for the Tory party.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
The Tory party to end! Hooray.
The Tory Party has been around for over 300 years, the only way it would end is if it was replaced by or merged with another right of centre party
It needs to split first. At present it is a pantomime donkey with two heads, each pointing in different directions. Just now "Conservative Party" is a very negative phrase.
How negative a phrase is the Lib Dems considering the blue meanies polled over 5 times what the LDs did at the last election.
Didn`t the Conservatives cheat at the last general election? And in the one before? And in the Referendum?
Cheats do prosper for a while, Mr Eagles, but only until everybody else cottons on.
The Conservatives used to have a reputation for honesty and competence.
Every time, you make a twat of yourself on this issue.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
The only way Brexit will die is if we have a second referendum and the majority of people vote for the Remain option.
For a hardcore Brexit-o-loon next Monday, after the Chequers meeting, might be the day Brexit dies.
How many shirts will be required for the Chequers meeting ?
Would it improve my case if I made clear that I don't ever put the two together when I make pizzas?
Politically you talk a great deal of sense. Gastronomically.......... not so much. Even with the last caveat.
I'm experimental in the kitchen I live alone so only I suffer if the meals I make are not great. I assumed for most of my life, with no evidence and to attempt to try, that I couldn't cook. Then a couple of years ago I decided to try and found out that I can cook. The EU cake in my avatar was one of my own homemade efforts from a couple of years ago.
Is today the day that Brexit died? Rees-Mogg's misjudged threats and Boris's foul-mouthed rant against the wealth creators feel like the desperate splutterings of yesterday's men.
It is looking like the day that Soft Brexit died. The EU have rejected May's new plans before she even publishes them! What a shambles.
CETA should be the outcome, but the forced partition of part of the UK which appears to be demanded should not be acceptable to anyone. No deal is the only sensible and rational approach at this time.
You don't understand the Tory party leadership election process, do you?
I understand it just fine. There will only be a contest if May is already dead. In that case, the Leavers will have to get behind one Leave candidate especially if Javid is knocking around, since he will just revert to Remain form if he ever gets elected.
Nor do you understand Javid's views on Leave/Remain which undermines the rest of your analysis.
What is there to understand? A lifetime Eurosceptic who completely abandoned his principles and supported Remain because he thought that they would win and it would help advance his political career. Now trying to look like he is a Leaver again because he realises that the Tory members are not going to elect another Remainer. And such bad judgement that he supported Crabb.
Sorry, he might look nice on the telly but in a leadership contest he will get chewed up and spat out. And I don't doubt for a second that if he ever got elected as leader he would sell out on Brexit in a heartbeat.
Yes but the conclusion you draw is wrong. I think your passion is blinding you to the dynamic at play. He has yet to convince MPs (who I appreciate aren't members) of his europhile credentials and they are wary of supporting him because they fear he might do exactly the opposite of what you suggest, which is to revert to his euroscepticism.
The dynamic is that if there is a leadership contest anytime soon, a Leaver will win. Unless MPs manage to engineer Javid against a Remainer, he will lose against a real Leaver because the members won't trust him.
The Tories tried a leader who was a Remainer but promised to deliver Brexit - we can see how that is going. No chance it will happen again.
David Herdson's view that Brexit will not be the major factor in choosing a leader I think is 100% wrong - the way May is going, there will be a crisis and it will be about the only factor.
You've been predicting May's demise every four weeks for the past nine months so your predictive track record on this isn't shit hot.
Comments
Is it because he’s thick as mince?
Candidate list: 3 social liberal leavers (with Ruth a critically important backer), 1 social conservative leaver, 1 advocating very soft Brexit. Candidate will be whoever of the three can survive the vote split of the early rounds, as remainy candidate gets through first round and social conservative makes the final three.
Anyway, Theresa, hold on in there gal, at least until the summer recess.
I've made clear it is not sunlit uplands, the limits to our market access would still be pretty painful even if we achieve all that I set out.
Out of an electorate of c.70,000 that’s not many. But, I think Twitter tends to have disproportionate engagement from local journalists and community leaders, so MPs view it as a useful way of getting their message out.
But missed, due to incompetence.
"You draw some, you lose some...."
It truly is depressing time.
What a difference from that glorious night and morning of May 2015.
"Things have got to get worse before... well..."
It is something you get really excited but when it happens it never matches the fantasy and you’re a bit regretful about it all.
This is about the future direction of this country for the next decade and more - not the short term political future of Tory MPs or getting May though another month. She promised voters a certain sort of Brexit - now she has done a 180 degree u turn. There is just no direction as we veer from headline to headline and crisis Cabinet meeting to crisis summit.
It's time to stand up and be counted - because we need direction and Leadership and May simply can't or wont give that. Or as Meryl Streep (as Baroness Thatcher) might have said either you stand on principle or you do not stand at all.
There'd be more truth in saying that the Lib Dems should split, with the Liberals joining the Conservatives, the Social Democrats joining Labour, and the pothole-pointers standing as Independents.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/104760/busted/
I don’t think I’ll ever top this in the analogy stakes.
https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/742615644017942528?s=21
Cheats do prosper for a while, Mr Eagles, but only until everybody else cottons on.
The Conservatives used to have a reputation for honesty and competence.
Now this is cheating.
Lib Dems fined £20,000 for undeclared election spending
Electoral Commission fines party for failing to declare 307 payments totalling £184,676
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/07/lib-dems-fined-20000-for-undeclared-election-spending
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones or get changed with the lights on.
When is that case coming up, seems to have been a while?
Having left, you need unanimity to get back in, so the rebate would be gone, and there might just also be pressure to join Schengen, as this would tidy things up compared to having the Common Travel Area as a separate thing. If we're talking about the forseeable future nobody's going to want the British joining the Eurozone, which has enough problems as it is without creating new, grumpy ones. Britain might lose the explicit opt-out but they'd still be able to use the Swedish cheat codes.
I just felt 'a bit regretful' rather undersold it.
So, if we get to a contest AND none of the Leavers resigned before the end, there is going to be a huge credibility problem for Gove/Johnson etc. IF Mogg stands (and he might not) he is going to have a huge advantage because the other candidates are going to have to spend their whole time being asked why they stuck in May's cabinet and didn't resign when it was obvious she was selling out. Meanwhile JRM will be able to pitch himself as the only man of principle.
Tory MPs (and members) are like children. They like whatever is shiny on the day. They love Javid right now because he looks good on TV and has a nice backstory, but he is also an unprincipled chancer. Gove is undermining himself with his fake loyalty to May.
There are more than enough Leaver Tory MPs to get a candidate in the final two. And it is easy to see that JRM is positioning himself in case nobody else resigns until it is too late.
At the end of the day, I understand how the contest will work - anyone who gets momentum during the contest can win. There will have to be a Leaver in the final two. And right now the Cabinet leavers are killing their chances by refusing to stand up to May.
My prediction is that Boris will resign, wield the knife and win. But JRM is certainly well positioned if there is another scenario.
There's no issue once we're out so they are free to push their federal vision as far as they can.
She said it's not bad. Its not pizza, but not bad.
https://twitter.com/guitarmoog/status/1013772285818351616?s=21
The worry would be leave voters deserting the Tory party, either by voting for hard Brexit Jez or staying home. That would be the end of us as a political force for a generation.
Democracy costs.
Elite universities must do more to attract young people from parts of the country swayed by the populism of President Trump, the new president of Harvard has said."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/harvard-seeks-more-blue-collar-workers-wg8sn7pm3
1. Boris won't resign (not least because May would bend to accommodate him but also because he doesn't have the balls);
2. Whether or not Boris resigns, he won't win: he's too flaky and full of hot air;
3. For all the fuss about Brexit, whoever wins has to lead the Party into the 2022GE (or earlier), which means they have to demonstrate some capacity for the boring bits of highest office;
4. Corbyn remains Labour leader - this is not an election to risk losing, so safe options carry a premium, while JRM is the riskiest choice;
5. JRM probably will not stand but if he does, he will lose - most MPs, even within the ERG will make decisions where Brexit is only one factor;
6. JRM's personal and political actions in non-Brexit areas would be unattractive to the public and easy to run a campaign against;
7. Not resigning from May's cabinet is not necessarily a negative, though Boris/Heathrow is;
8. If someone is going to resign, it'll probably be either Gove or Fox but might be Davis;
9. You say 'unprincipled chancer' like it's a bad thing - this is the Party of Disraeli;
10. JRM is sufficiently out of the mainstream that were he a possible contender for the final round, he'd be the subject of negative voting so as to try to ensure that two other candidates went to the membership - and I don't see him having the 100+ MPs necessary to overcome that.
The Lega-led coalition won 111 FPTP seats, and M5S won another 93; he rest won only 28. By contrast, the centre- and far-left opposition won 102 of the PR seats (against 151 and 133 for Lega+ and M5S).
Sorry, he might look nice on the telly but in a leadership contest he will get chewed up and spat out. And I don't doubt for a second that if he ever got elected as leader he would sell out on Brexit in a heartbeat.
CETA should be the outcome, but the forced partition of part of the UK which appears to be demanded should not be acceptable to anyone. No deal is the only sensible and rational approach at this time.
It might be something incredibly innovative!!
I still think the best option is CETA with us just becoming another province of Canada. At least we might get freedom of movement with a country many Brits would have interest in moving to!! Mrs May just needs to think outside the box - and wait for the Canadian Tories to take over next year.
We're more important in the grand scheme of things than metal bashers.
The Tories tried a leader who was a Remainer but promised to deliver Brexit - we can see how that is going. No chance it will happen again.
David Herdson's view that Brexit will not be the major factor in choosing a leader I think is 100% wrong - the way May is going, there will be a crisis and it will be about the only factor.
This is a summary of the negotiations so far:
UK: Right, I wonder if we should ...
EU: Non.
UK: Well can we ...
EU: Non.
UK: What about the ...
EU: Non.
UK: Surely we can ...
EU: Non.
Boris: I ...
EU: Non. Non. Non.
You've been predicting May's demise every four weeks for the past nine months so your predictive track record on this isn't shit hot.