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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Suddenly Tory cabinet indiscipline moves to the top of the pol

SystemSystem Posts: 11,018
edited June 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Suddenly Tory cabinet indiscipline moves to the top of the political agenda

Is Tory discipline on the verge of breaking down? https://t.co/ELqftPoehk

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2018
    When does Nero start fiddling?

    [and yes, history fans, I know that's apocryphal at best]
  • Options
    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    Leader of Welsh Tories has also just stood down, he's had Airbus and Swansea Bay in a week to deal with.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2018
    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited June 2018
    Mr. Alistair, the dangers of political segregation and factionalism are not minor, we need only look at the Peloponnesian War and intra-city infighting to see how that can go.

    Or, for that matter, the politics of Clodius and Milo.

    Edited extra bit: misspelt Clodius.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Shambles.

    Still - three lions on the shirt, cricket etc to distract from it - thank god.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203
    In office but not in power, as someone once said.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited June 2018

    Mr. Alistair, the dangers of political segregation and factionalism are not minor, we need only look at the Peloponnesian War and intra-city infighting to see how that can go.

    Or, for that matter, the politics of Clodius and Milo.

    Edited extra bit: misspelt Clodius.

    When Joe Biden was turned away from a bakery in 2012 the owner was hailed as a champion of free speech and choice.

    When the same is done to Sanders it is the end of civility and the collapse of civilisation.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995
    Why did the Welsh tory (I've literally never heard of him) have to go?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dura_Ace said:

    Why did the Welsh tory (I've literally never heard of him) have to go?

    https://twitter.com/JamesTapsfield/status/1011903828025839616
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,253
    And yet May won every vote on the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (as it now is), she won the Heathrow vote very comfortably and she keeps pottering on.

    Her next test is the EU Summit this week. Will she be able to show real progress or will the EU be distracted by immigration, Italy, the current weakness of Merkel and the increasingly fragile democratic structures in eastern Europe? I think she will find it hard to get much attention but people are getting impatient.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Collective Cabinet responsibility broke down over the EU referendum. It has never really been restored.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,253

    Collective Cabinet responsibility broke down over the EU referendum. It has never really been restored.

    I think that there is a lot of truth in that. The election was May's opportunity to fix it and get clear leadership again but she fluffed it.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    Bring on Jezza?
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Collective Cabinet responsibility broke down over the EU referendum. It has never really been restored.

    Very true , the Conservative backbenchers seem robustly disciplined .In comparison to the cabinet.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Alistair, I was unaware of that.

    US politics has always been partisan, but I can't remember it being as starkly divided as it is now.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,253
    Scott_P said:
    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    And yet May won every vote on the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (as it now is), she won the Heathrow vote very comfortably and she keeps pottering on.

    Her next test is the EU Summit this week. Will she be able to show real progress or will the EU be distracted by immigration, Italy, the current weakness of Merkel and the increasingly fragile democratic structures in eastern Europe? I think she will find it hard to get much attention but people are getting impatient.

    Is this how people talked about Major? He keeps winning no confidence motions, he's fine.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923
    Scott_P said:
    That's greater than the entire sum of European GDP.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Mr. Alistair, I was unaware of that.

    US politics has always been partisan, but I can't remember it being as starkly divided as it is now.

    A general rule of thumb is that anything the American right is shouting about now they already did twice as hard whilst Obama or Clinton was president.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,284
    edited June 2018
    DavidL said:

    Collective Cabinet responsibility broke down over the EU referendum. It has never really been restored.

    I think that there is a lot of truth in that. The election was May's opportunity to fix it and get clear leadership again but she fluffed it.
    The chaos in the party with dreadful decision making or no decision making lie at the feet of Theresa. I am devastated at the politics of the Swansea lagoon decision and am now moving towards the Hammonds and those seeking to limit Brexit damage.

    Boris Johnson attack on Airbus and his cowardice on Heathrow calls for him to be sacked.

    I am very disillusioned at present and hope that someone will step up to the plate quickly. Sajid Javid has my vote, the sooner the better in my opinion
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    This is a disgrace.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    That's greater than the entire sum of European GDP.
    yup

    and then there's Deustche Banks own little derivative problem
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814

    This is a disgrace.


    Has something displeased TSE? :D
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.
    Whose derivatives are these, ours or europe's ?
    I think its an issue no matter who put what on expenses at the BoE.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    DavidL said:

    Collective Cabinet responsibility broke down over the EU referendum. It has never really been restored.

    I think that there is a lot of truth in that. The election was May's opportunity to fix it and get clear leadership again but she fluffed it.
    The chaos in the party with dreadful decision making or no decision making lie at the feet of Theresa. I am devastated at the politics of the Swansea lagoon decision and am now moving towards the Hammonds and those seeking to limit Brexit damage.

    Boris Johnson attack on Airbus and his cowardice on Heathrow calls for him to be sacked.

    I am very disillusioned at present and hope that someone will step up to the plate quickly. Sajid Javid has my vote, the sooner the better in my opinion
    The case for Hammond as next leader is that increasingly he looks like the only grown-up in the room. It is noticeable he did not hit the roof or the airwaves last week when the PM made a bus-sized hole in his budget. The case against is that no-one likes him.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited June 2018
    Off topic

    Was surprised that a fire chief in

    London had no training in evacuating high rise buildings.

    https://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-chief-had-no-training-on-cladding-fires-11416679
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,562
    (FPT)Elected politicians are certainly fair game for criticism and public condemnation, but I don’t think their members of staff should fall into the same category. I’d say that Mrs Huckabee Sanders does a bloody good job at an almost impossible role, given that her boss changes his mind on things by the minute and prefers to communicate directly with the world from his phone...

    Well Trump is the most divisive President in my memory, and his discourse is not greatly different from that of the troll Milo Yiannopoulos we were discussing a couple of threads back.
    If you accept the role of Trump's spokesperson (which remember is not that of a civil servant, but a political appointment), as the New Yorker put it, someone who has decided to make it her public role to extend, with a blizzard of falsehoods, the words of a pathological liar... should not be enormously surprised if they become fair game for the same public criticism.

    As I said, not my choice of action, but I cannot condemn it.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923

    DavidL said:

    Collective Cabinet responsibility broke down over the EU referendum. It has never really been restored.

    I think that there is a lot of truth in that. The election was May's opportunity to fix it and get clear leadership again but she fluffed it.
    The chaos in the party with dreadful decision making or no decision making lie at the feet of Theresa. I am devastated at the politics of the Swansea lagoon decision and am now moving towards the Hammonds and those seeking to limit Brexit damage.

    Boris Johnson attack on Airbus and his cowardice on Heathrow calls for him to be sacked.

    I am very disillusioned at present and hope that someone will step up to the plate quickly. Sajid Javid has my vote, the sooner the better in my opinion
    The case for Hammond as next leader is that increasingly he looks like the only grown-up in the room. It is noticeable he did not hit the roof or the airwaves last week when the PM made a bus-sized hole in his budget. The case against is that no-one likes him.
    You don't need much of a case for him when he's in a big office of state at 50-1 either. I've taken the £2 available at that price on Betfair.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    Remember that the American ambassador is not a career diplomat but a donor or friend of the president. It is the Deputy Chief who runs the embassy. It is a bit different from how we or most countries run things. It is therefore less surprising if the ambassador was perhaps a tad undiplomatic or entirely off-piste.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,562

    This is a disgrace.

    You're going to have to be a bit more specific...
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    So basically #fakenews ?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    His analysis of the negotiations and the British misconception of them remains spot on.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    Brexit related matters have greatly improved since them. A huge round of trade deals with our closest partners can be done and done quickly apparently.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    Scott_P said:
    The EU should do more but, if you read the report, the content doesn’t match the alarmist headline and is actually rather reassuring.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited June 2018
    Entirely OT (but slightly related to the derivatives tangent), does anybody know typically, for say a British bookmaker, how much money is typically staked by punters on outstanding bets at any one time (I think this is called "open interest" but I may be wrong), and how does this compare to the value of the business?

    The context of this is me wondering about a decentralized prediction market system called Augur, which for obscure crypto-economic reasons has limitations on how much "open interest" you can have in the system at any one time.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    This is a disgrace.

    You're going to have to be a bit more specific...
    Liz Truss meme I'm guessing.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    Brexit related matters have greatly improved since them. A huge round of trade deals with our closest partners can be done and done quickly apparently.
    FTAs will be flowing from Liam Fox's pen as soon as we've thought of a way to reconcile the wholly contradictory demands of the US and EU. How hard can it be?
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    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    It's all going to come to a head, in the Welsh Tory party leadership contest..........
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    This is a disgrace.

    That's an effective all-purpose reply to any pb thread.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    His analysis of the negotiations and the British misconception of them remains spot on.
    No, I don’t think so.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

    It shows just how dependent the EU is on the City.

    It also means there will be a deal.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,294

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

    Relax Alan - if everyone walked into their local branch of HSBC and demanded their money there wouldn't be an HSBC. But they won't so there will be.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    edited June 2018
    FPT - I sense the economy is doing “ok”, but retailers are struggling as are some estate agents.

    Of course, that will be blamed on Brexit by the usual suspects but it actually has virtually nothing to do with it.

    Retailers are suffering from high rents, high overheads and changing consumer patterns to buying online (John Lewis, M&S, House of Fraser, Toys R Us and Poundworld, to name but a few) and the housing market has largely seized up due to colossal transactional costs, and the tax changes, together with too few new builds/first time buyers whilst there are some online estate agents that are starting to make serious dents in the traditional high street offerings.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited June 2018

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

    It shows just how dependent the EU is on the City.

    It also means there will be a deal.
    it also shows how little TSE understands risk. :-)

    move your profits to a country whose government could collapse at any moment, which arguably is on the brink of a recession, is about to enter a full on trade war with the USA and where a radical right government of CSU and AfD is atm the most likely outcome.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It looks like support for Berlusconi's party has almost completely collapsed in recent weeks. FI are down to 8.4% in the most recent poll:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election#2018
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

    It shows just how dependent the EU is on the City.

    It also means there will be a deal.
    it also shows how little TSE understands risk. :-)

    move your profits to a country whose government could collapse at any moment, which arguably is on the brink of a recession, is about to enter a full on trade war with the USA and where a radical right government of CSU and AfD is atm the most likely outcome.
    Is a mystery to many how I became Head of Legal and Regulatory Affairs in the financial services industry.

    You told us to prepare for a Hard Brexit, we did.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    As profitable as Deutsch Bank!
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604

    This is a disgrace.

    That's an effective all-purpose reply to any pb thread.
    The PB equivalent of "That would be an ecumenical matter".
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923
    AndyJS said:

    It looks like support for Berlusconi's party has almost completely collapsed in recent weeks. FI are down to 8.4% in the most recent poll:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election#2018

    Salvini's offering appeals to former FI supporters.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    where a radical right government of CSU and AfD is atm the most likely outcome.

    WTF? Somebody polled national-CSU plus AfD and they got a grand total of 29% between them. It's not obvious where the other 21% would come from, as most German voters aren't in a hurry to give the whole nationalist right thing another go.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    FPT - I sense the economy is doing “ok”, but retailers are struggling as are some estate agents.

    Of course, that will be blamed on Brexit by the usual suspects but it actually has virtually nothing to do with it.

    Retailers are suffering from high rents, high overheads and changing consumer patterns to buying online (John Lewis, M&S, House of Fraser, Toys R Us and Poundworld, to name but a few) and the housing market has largely seized up due to colossal transactional costs, and the tax changes, together with too few new builds/first time buyers whilst there are some online estate agents that are starting to make serious dents in the traditional high street offerings.

    High street retailers face unprecedented competition from online firms who are often innovative but who may have no great interest in paying tax or even making a profit.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,977
    Yorkcity said:

    Off topic

    Was surprised that a fire chief in

    London had no training in evacuating high rise buildings.

    https://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-chief-had-no-training-on-cladding-fires-11416679

    So far, the poor chap’s being hung out to dry, but he’s come out of it, IMHO, with cedit. If I was at the top of the TMO or the LA I’d be a bit worried about my turn in the box. In fact, I might just do an Ernest Saunders.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

    Relax Alan - if everyone walked into their local branch of HSBC and demanded their money there wouldn't be an HSBC. But they won't so there will be.
    I never thought anything different Mt T, I simply am amused that remainers scare stories are only scaring remainiers and miss their target audience of leavers completely.

    wrt your comment on Ireland, you make my point for me, we will end up with a softish Brexit , so the sudden parade of scare mongering in the last fortnight achieves nothing

    as Lenin might have put it we have a lot of useless idiots
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056
    Alanbrooke seems to have missed the polling showing that Merkel is more popular that Soeder or Seehofer *in Bavaria*.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    So David Davis is banking BINO.

    Even David Davis has seen the light.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Entirely OT (but slightly related to the derivatives tangent), does anybody know typically, for say a British bookmaker, how much money is typically staked by punters on outstanding bets at any one time (I think this is called "open interest" but I may be wrong), and how does this compare to the value of the business?

    The context of this is me wondering about a decentralized prediction market system called Augur, which for obscure crypto-economic reasons has limitations on how much "open interest" you can have in the system at any one time.

    Very little on an overnight basis: most betting is day-of-event with (for most sports) the majority of that now during the event itself.

    However for your purposes it sounds like you might be concerned by the total "open interest" during a game. I reckon that (measured by stakes, not liability, which could be an additional problem for you if your model is peer-to-peer) would exceed 5% of the market cap of big firms during the World Cup Final, say.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,253
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
    Thanks. In fairness they have been going on about this for some time: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/25/trillions-risk-without-brexit-deal-derivatives-warns-bank-england/

    Basically, I think that they are saying that if the City is prevented from continuing or rolling over the services it currently provides to the EU the consequences would be catastrophic for everybody. The BoE is clearly right about that but the EU have some hard decisions to make about passporting etc to avoid the problem.
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    So what?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
    Thanks. In fairness they have been going on about this for some time: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/25/trillions-risk-without-brexit-deal-derivatives-warns-bank-england/

    Basically, I think that they are saying that if the City is prevented from continuing or rolling over the services it currently provides to the EU the consequences would be catastrophic for everybody. The BoE is clearly right about that but the EU have some hard decisions to make about passporting etc to avoid the problem.
    But Mrs May’s red lines make passporting a no no.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    So what?
    Its points about the economy “tanking” have been shown to be totally unfounded.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

    It shows just how dependent the EU is on the City.

    It also means there will be a deal.
    it also shows how little TSE understands risk. :-)

    move your profits to a country whose government could collapse at any moment, which arguably is on the brink of a recession, is about to enter a full on trade war with the USA and where a radical right government of CSU and AfD is atm the most likely outcome.
    Is a mystery to many how I became Head of Legal and Regulatory Affairs in the financial services industry.

    You told us to prepare for a Hard Brexit, we did.
    lol

    I told you nothing of the sort, Ive always said we'd have a softish exit and things would go on much as before.

    those telling yu about the hard brexit were your fellow remainers and UKIP ultras.

    Nigel Farage has a bridge he's like to sell you
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    So what?
    Its points about the economy “tanking” have been shown to be totally unfounded.
    We haven’t left yet.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923

    Entirely OT (but slightly related to the derivatives tangent), does anybody know typically, for say a British bookmaker, how much money is typically staked by punters on outstanding bets at any one time (I think this is called "open interest" but I may be wrong), and how does this compare to the value of the business?

    The context of this is me wondering about a decentralized prediction market system called Augur, which for obscure crypto-economic reasons has limitations on how much "open interest" you can have in the system at any one time.

    Very little on an overnight basis: most betting is day-of-event with (for most sports) the majority of that now during the event itself.

    However for your purposes it sounds like you might be concerned by the total "open interest" during a game. I reckon that (measured by stakes, not liability, which could be an additional problem for you if your model is peer-to-peer) would exceed 5% of the market cap of big firms during the World Cup Final, say.
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
    Thanks. In fairness they have been going on about this for some time: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/25/trillions-risk-without-brexit-deal-derivatives-warns-bank-england/

    Basically, I think that they are saying that if the City is prevented from continuing or rolling over the services it currently provides to the EU the consequences would be catastrophic for everybody. The BoE is clearly right about that but the EU have some hard decisions to make about passporting etc to avoid the problem.
    Brexit means ;)
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    I really had thought the Tory party had cleaned up its act after the disclosure of Churchill setting up the "River Companies" (named after the rivers that flow into the Thames in London, but are covered over, eh: The Fleet.) to avoid scrutiny of Tory Party Funding back in the 1950's. Along with the financial party funding shennagins that was uncovered back in the 1990's, with the Economic League and the blacklisting of workers but nope. This one could run, especially if the Electoral Commission decides to investigate, with the gloves off... :" https://theferret.scot/secretive-trust-scottish-tories-dark-money/
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189

    Yorkcity said:

    Off topic

    Was surprised that a fire chief in

    London had no training in evacuating high rise buildings.

    https://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-chief-had-no-training-on-cladding-fires-11416679

    So far, the poor chap’s being hung out to dry, but he’s come out of it, IMHO, with cedit. If I was at the top of the TMO or the LA I’d be a bit worried about my turn in the box. In fact, I might just do an Ernest Saunders.
    From what I've seen, he looks over promoted and out of his depth. That's not his fault, of course. But whoever put him in charge has questions to answer.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,639
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
    The BoE is clearly right about that but the EU have some hard decisions to make about passporting etc to avoid the problem.
    Not EU “cakeism” surely?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    FPT - I sense the economy is doing “ok”, but retailers are struggling as are some estate agents.

    Of course, that will be blamed on Brexit by the usual suspects but it actually has virtually nothing to do with it.

    Retailers are suffering from high rents, high overheads and changing consumer patterns to buying online (John Lewis, M&S, House of Fraser, Toys R Us and Poundworld, to name but a few) and the housing market has largely seized up due to colossal transactional costs, and the tax changes, together with too few new builds/first time buyers whilst there are some online estate agents that are starting to make serious dents in the traditional high street offerings.

    High street retailers face unprecedented competition from online firms who are often innovative but who may have no great interest in paying tax or even making a profit.
    I actually find it annoying.

    I want to go out and pick my fresh fruit and veg for myself on a Saturday.

    That option is now closed to me since my local greengrocer closed (for those reasons) and went wholly online, now meaning I have to work out what I need by Weds so I have a chance of booking a delivery slot on a Saturday before they all go, for items I cannot individually pick.

    Invariably I don't bother, and just go to Sainsbury’s instead.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    Has DD gone native? Perhaps spending all this time with EU negotiators has opened his eyes to what a splendidly efficient, innovative and philanthropic organization it really is. Come over to the Remainer side DD! The water's lovely.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    Ouch. How people outside the Brexit Bubble (i.e. outside the UK and the EU) perceive things.
    https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


    However only five day's ago the US ambassador to the UK was telling us that we should buck our ideas up and stop being so "defeatist" about Brexit so maybe the US embassy itself has got problems to sort out?
    This was video is taken from the start of 2017, pre article 50.
    So what?
    Its points about the economy “tanking” have been shown to be totally unfounded.
    We haven’t left yet.
    That old canard.

    Another thing that will be proven to be totally unfounded.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Yorkcity said:

    Off topic

    Was surprised that a fire chief in

    London had no training in evacuating high rise buildings.

    https://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-chief-had-no-training-on-cladding-fires-11416679

    So far, the poor chap’s being hung out to dry, but he’s come out of it, IMHO, with cedit. If I was at the top of the TMO or the LA I’d be a bit worried about my turn in the box. In fact, I might just do an Ernest Saunders.
    This could turn into yet another nail in Boris's leadership ambitions. Give it time and they'll get round to his fire service cuts.
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    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    Truss should be fired
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    Entirely OT (but slightly related to the derivatives tangent), does anybody know typically, for say a British bookmaker, how much money is typically staked by punters on outstanding bets at any one time (I think this is called "open interest" but I may be wrong), and how does this compare to the value of the business?

    The context of this is me wondering about a decentralized prediction market system called Augur, which for obscure crypto-economic reasons has limitations on how much "open interest" you can have in the system at any one time.

    Very little on an overnight basis: most betting is day-of-event with (for most sports) the majority of that now during the event itself.

    However for your purposes it sounds like you might be concerned by the total "open interest" during a game. I reckon that (measured by stakes, not liability, which could be an additional problem for you if your model is peer-to-peer) would exceed 5% of the market cap of big firms during the World Cup Final, say.
    Thanks, I'm not actually involved with Augur but the restriction is that Augur has its own token (called "REP" which is short for "reputation", although it's really nothing to do with reputation, which is used to vote (sort-of) for outcomes on who won which game etc. People then make their bets using other currencies (normal crypto-currencies like ETH, or "stablecoins" pegged to a normal currency, which is a whole nother ball of string). There's a risk that (simplifying it) somebody could make a bunch of bets on unlikely outcomes at long odds, then buy up a majority of the REP tokens and report a bogus result, thus collecting from their losing bets and making a profit.

    To counter this they have a restriction that's supposed to stop you putting more money into the system than the total value of all the REP that have been issued (plus a safety margin). So I'm wondering how much of a restriction that is in practice.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    where a radical right government of CSU and AfD is atm the most likely outcome.

    WTF? Somebody polled national-CSU plus AfD and they got a grand total of 29% between them. It's not obvious where the other 21% would come from, as most German voters aren't in a hurry to give the whole nationalist right thing another go.
    no german party has a majority nor is it possible for any of them to make one.

    this time last year PBers were telling me I was nuts for saying Merkel was in the shit. Now it's the status quo. The mood in Germany is currently unpredictable and the CDU and SPD are losing ground, look at the trend, then consider that the AfD is consistently underreported in the polls.

    Eastern Germany is currently the laboratory for new politics in the Federal Republic and all bets are off with both Die Linke and AfD being viewed as potential partners in state government.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,977
    tlg86 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Off topic

    Was surprised that a fire chief in

    London had no training in evacuating high rise buildings.

    https://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-chief-had-no-training-on-cladding-fires-11416679

    So far, the poor chap’s being hung out to dry, but he’s come out of it, IMHO, with cedit. If I was at the top of the TMO or the LA I’d be a bit worried about my turn in the box. In fact, I might just do an Ernest Saunders.
    From what I've seen, he looks over promoted and out of his depth. That's not his fault, of course. But whoever put him in charge has questions to answer.
    That too. And DecrepitJohn’s post, upthread is relevant too. Wopnder how far they’ll dig!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,253

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
    The BoE is clearly right about that but the EU have some hard decisions to make about passporting etc to avoid the problem.
    Not EU “cakeism” surely?
    The reality is that the liquidity and financial skills that London provides is absolutely essential to the EU economy and to cut themselves off from it would cause a recession that would make 2008 look like a cake walk. So they won't. They may look to trim at the edges, they make look to move some of the services onshore in the medium term, they may want to give us a fright but everyone is staring over a precipice here and will eventually take a step back.

    The BoE have just found an effective way of highlighting the consequences.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,294

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    That’s one way to rebalance the economy.

    Looks like I’ll be working in Germany next year.

    Thank you Leavers.
    amazing how you finance guys keep tanking the world economy
    We’re not tanking anything.

    We’re taking back control of our profits and moving them to Germany.
    are you really that much of a eejit?

    if £29 trn go tits up, there wont be a Germany.

    Relax Alan - if everyone walked into their local branch of HSBC and demanded their money there wouldn't be an HSBC. But they won't so there will be.
    I never thought anything different Mt T, I simply am amused that remainers scare stories are only scaring remainiers and miss their target audience of leavers completely.

    wrt your comment on Ireland, you make my point for me, we will end up with a softish Brexit , so the sudden parade of scare mongering in the last fortnight achieves nothing

    as Lenin might have put it we have a lot of useless idiots
    I think tbf some people (let them put up a border) needed some scare stories to slap them back to reality.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390

    Has DD gone native? Perhaps spending all this time with EU negotiators has opened his eyes to what a splendidly efficient, innovative and philanthropic organization it really is. Come over to the Remainer side DD! The water's lovely.
    DD was Pro-EU, he was Europe Minister, remember in the 2005 Tory leadership contest he portrayed himself as the Pro-EU candidate.

    But since he was smashed by Dave in the leadership contest he did everything based on opposing Dave.

    Davis is a hypocrite. Portrays himself as a great civil libertarian but is opposed to same sex marriage and supports creating a giant DNA database.
  • Options
    LordOfReasonLordOfReason Posts: 457
    So May uses all the brown nosers in the full cabinet to gazump the brexiteers in the brexit cabinet? No. That’s May choosing retirement. By going to the brown noser gazzump of whole cabinet places the smoking gun ERG needs into the ERG hands who replaces her with a Leaver PM, as it should have been from the start anyway, Miss Fudge only got it and remained PM so long because she wasn’t one of the other divisive or unpalatable leadership candidates.

    She fought for remain in the campaign? Nope. Not how Cameron probably appreciated it. She came out for leave? Nope. Not how leavers probably appreciated it. She was the fudge PM even before she became the fudge PM. She could never ride this raft for ever, now she has chosen to let the ERG replace her.

    When the Brexiteer PM is installed, probably Gove and sometime soon now, the first thing they will do is say “we are where we are, let’s take a pragmatic approach sorting this mess out” and instantly everything will just calm down, and move much more smoothly, though a little more slowly, towards the deal.

    This isn’t about to happen? Or you read it here first.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056
    edited June 2018

    where a radical right government of CSU and AfD is atm the most likely outcome.

    WTF? Somebody polled national-CSU plus AfD and they got a grand total of 29% between them. It's not obvious where the other 21% would come from, as most German voters aren't in a hurry to give the whole nationalist right thing another go.
    no german party has a majority nor is it possible for any of them to make one.

    this time last year PBers were telling me I was nuts for saying Merkel was in the shit. Now it's the status quo. The mood in Germany is currently unpredictable and the CDU and SPD are losing ground, look at the trend, then consider that the AfD is consistently underreported in the polls.
    https://twitter.com/RagnarWeilandt/status/1011544031254536192
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    Yorkcity said:

    Off topic

    Was surprised that a fire chief in

    London had no training in evacuating high rise buildings.

    https://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-chief-had-no-training-on-cladding-fires-11416679

    So far, the poor chap’s being hung out to dry, but he’s come out of it, IMHO, with cedit. If I was at the top of the TMO or the LA I’d be a bit worried about my turn in the box. In fact, I might just do an Ernest Saunders.
    The main concern is that since the change of fire regulations in the Mid 90s then fire officers play a key role in the enforcement of the Fire Risk Assessment regime, particularly with regards to identifying common risks and secondary inspection of high risk buildings. It was strange to here him saying that he couldn’t identify rainscreen cladding, as a large number of buildings in London will use it and there is a risk of a chimney effect I.e fire being drawn up the external cavity, for which numerous mitigation measures are available.

    This is a problem (not dissimilar to finance) where technical solutions in building construction are beyond the understanding of those regulating the system on a general enforcement basis.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,253

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
    Thanks. In fairness they have been going on about this for some time: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/25/trillions-risk-without-brexit-deal-derivatives-warns-bank-england/

    Basically, I think that they are saying that if the City is prevented from continuing or rolling over the services it currently provides to the EU the consequences would be catastrophic for everybody. The BoE is clearly right about that but the EU have some hard decisions to make about passporting etc to avoid the problem.
    But Mrs May’s red lines make passporting a no no.
    I think that we will find that is not the case. We don't need alignment, we need equivalence. That is not an unbridgeable gap.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,892

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Any idea where he is getting that from? It sounds interesting but the BoE may be desperate to talk about anything other than their expenses at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/bankofengland/status/1011904845400494080
    The BoE is clearly right about that but the EU have some hard decisions to make about passporting etc to avoid the problem.
    Not EU “cakeism” surely?
    Maybe at some point soon the EU will realise that access to London and the City might be useful for them, especially as their debts increase and their largest banks start to look for assistance.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604

    Truss should be fired

    From BBC:

    'Former minister Ed Vaizey told BBC Radio 4's Today programme Ms Truss had achieved her goal of getting noticed with her "full frontal..." '
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    where a radical right government of CSU and AfD is atm the most likely outcome.

    WTF? Somebody polled national-CSU plus AfD and they got a grand total of 29% between them. It's not obvious where the other 21% would come from, as most German voters aren't in a hurry to give the whole nationalist right thing another go.
    no german party has a majority nor is it possible for any of them to make one.

    this time last year PBers were telling me I was nuts for saying Merkel was in the shit. Now it's the status quo. The mood in Germany is currently unpredictable and the CDU and SPD are losing ground, look at the trend, then consider that the AfD is consistently underreported in the polls.
    https://twitter.com/RagnarWeilandt/status/1011544031254536192
    lol

    yes yes, Angies' never been stronger

    alternatively Brussels sponsored academic earns his shilling

  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    DavidL said:

    Collective Cabinet responsibility broke down over the EU referendum. It has never really been restored.

    I think that there is a lot of truth in that. The election was May's opportunity to fix it and get clear leadership again but she fluffed it.
    Indeed, ministers were much more responsible in the good old days of the Lib Dem-Conservative Coalition.
This discussion has been closed.