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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,565

    Mr. Jessop, it's true that there's been a lot of rail problems in the south (I recall a prolonged period of one operator [Southern Rail?] being thoroughly atrocious). That doesn't change the fact that money to electrify northern rail lines is promised then goes missing, whereas Grayling can find £2bn for a Stonehenge tunnel that many fear will cause huge damage to a unique site.

    Edited extra bit: decided a mild insult against Grayling was unseemly, so removed it.

    Insults at Grayling are justified.

    He was a disastrous Justice Secretary.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    @HYUFD - did you really live in Aberystwyth at any time? Because you're talking total nonsense.

    My suspicion is that you spent a couple of semesters at the university, living solely in PJM with a load of other English interlopers, did your shopping at the Co-op on the Waun, and went into town about once a month. That doesn't give you the capacity to judge what feelings will be like in the town.

    I lived there for seven years, four of them in a flat in Morfa Mawr and two in Gray's Inn Road, was choirmaster and organist of one of the local churches, sat on the board of a local charity and worked in several different bars as well as spending three years as a lecturer at the university.

    Yes, there is a 'them and us' mentality. Often, people in Aber get bent out by Cardiff. But they will have wanted this. Aber is famously the greenest town in the UK, for many years it was the only town to have elected a Green MP, and there has always been a push to enhance energy efficiency and cleanliness.

    Moreover, if they look at Cardiff with suspicion they look at London with hatred. When London clashes with Cardiff they will only want one winner.

    Feel free to disagree based on your minimal knowledge of the town. Just be aware that you're completely wrong.

    I did my Master's in Aberystwyth. I also campaigned in Abeyrstwuth and much of the surrounding area in Ceredigion and of course went to local pubs etc however your 'more Ceredigion than you' argumemt does not change the point.

    This was a project solely for Swansea, North and Mid Wales would have been barely impacted at all and are largely indifferent to South Wales anyway
    Point of order. Wasn't the "Green MP" mentioned in passing actually a one-off Plaid-Green alliance candidate?
    I believe so, Ceredigion is either Liberal or Plaid normally
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    Mr. HYUFD, wasn't the asked-for energy price lower than the Chinese nuclear reactor using a model that hasn't worked anywhere so far and is massively delayed and over-budget in another country (France?) where they're trying it?

    Again blame Greg Clark if true
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    So far Leave advocates have fallen in behind xenophobic lies, attacked the judiciary, attacked the civil service, attacked the House of Lords, attacked the media, attacked any business leader who has expressed qualms about the progress of Brexit, attacked the governor of the Bank of England and attacked the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The idea that they are going to change course because Brexit might be profoundly damaging to British industry is for the birds. Their paramount concern is to give free rein to their bottomless irrational hatred of the EU. Nothing else matters.
    unspoofable
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. P, on Truss: I saw the other day that she had quite a nice line about not approving of the EU's meme-banning idiotic proposal, as a meme herself. Not a huge deal, but did get her some credit, aligns with anti-EU sentiment, and is entirely sensible regarding a damned silly set of internet-buggering proposals.

    Douglas Hogg made a rather good joke at the weekend - he warned parents with children to be careful not to fall into his moat (“they might not see it because it hasn’t been cleaned recently”)
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    So far Leave advocates have fallen in behind xenophobic lies, attacked the judiciary, attacked the civil service, attacked the House of Lords, attacked the media, attacked any business leader who has expressed qualms about the progress of Brexit, attacked the governor of the Bank of England and attacked the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The idea that they are going to change course because Brexit might be profoundly damaging to British industry is for the birds. Their paramount concern is to give free rein to their bottomless irrational hatred of the EU. Nothing else matters.
    unspoofable
    2028 and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse stalk Warwickshire, and you'll still be looking forward to the eventual fruits of the economic rebalancing after Brexit.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Mr. Charles, not bad. What annoys me is that now most moats have fences around them. Anyone who can't see a bloody great big ring of water deserves to get a bit soggy.

    When NATO (I think it was) met in Cardiff Castle, they put up steel fences. Around the castle.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,565
    Oh and Grayling chickened out of the Northern Rail summit yesterday.

    There's going to be a Northern Uprising soon if he doesn't pull out his finger.

    I reckon you can put Bolton West and Blackpool North & Cleveleys as a nailed on Labour gains at the next election thanks to Grayling.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,914

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    The profitability of real estate has hurt manufacturing hugely I think. Real estate is something like 60% of bank lending now vs. 35-40% in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s...
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    So far Leave advocates have fallen in behind xenophobic lies, attacked the judiciary, attacked the civil service, attacked the House of Lords, attacked the media, attacked any business leader who has expressed qualms about the progress of Brexit, attacked the governor of the Bank of England and attacked the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The idea that they are going to change course because Brexit might be profoundly damaging to British industry is for the birds. Their paramount concern is to give free rein to their bottomless irrational hatred of the EU. Nothing else matters.
    unspoofable
    2028 and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse stalk Warwickshire, and you'll still be looking forward to the eventual fruits of the economic rebalancing after Brexit.
    well wages are going up and so is industrial output we may even get some sensible infrastructure investment

    once youre an Essex boy I look forward to you bewailing the state of rural life
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Mr. Eagles, aye, and then he blamed the men he wasn't meeting for the rail woes. (As an aside, curious that the usual go-to phrase 'travel chaos' hasn't been used. Presumably journalists only use that for things they think are acute rather than chronic?).
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.

    The collapse in investment seems to be down to Brexit putting us out of alignment with the Europe wide trading system we are currently part of. This is down to political decisions to do it the way we are doing it. It is entirely possible to leave the EU but stay in most of the existing arrangements.
    Not if you believe that the voters expect to see a more rational immigration system than the current approach.

    Of course that’s a ridiculous political decision by the EU but that’s their choice.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    In other news, I bet on Spain to top their group before the last match. I'll try to remember that bet next time I'm moaning about a bet unluckily not coming off.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Mr. HYUFD, I agree that Heathrow expansion is a good thing, and not just for its immediate area.

    However, there was another recent case (wish I could remember the project, near certain it was transport) where money was splashed in the South at the exact time that the rail woes in the North were making the news.

    I'd add that the lagoon could be a model for similar projects in future, providing us with stable, secure energy (which is also green) and decreasing the requirements from the National Grid.

    I know you get a nosebleed if you think about the south, but you might want to recall that at the same time that there were rail woes in the North, there were perhaps worse rail woes on GTR. Which serves... the south.. ;)
    He's thinking of Tosspot Grayling willing to spend tens of billions on HS2, Crossrail 2 et al but not a few million on electrifying the Pennine Routes or adding the extra 2 platforms at Piccadilly that were promised.
    The problem is that Network Rail have proved to be utterly unable to deliver such infrastructure projects. Whilst the DfT have to shoulder some of the blame, it is Network Rail's main responsibility.

    As a good Conservative, I' sure you wouldn't be in favour of writing blank cheques for projects to a group that have repeatedly failed to deliver projects on time, on spec and on budget. And it's not just 'the north' that are affected by this. :(

    And as an aside, the direct cause of Northern's woes was the failure of Network Rail to deliver infrastructure enhancements on time. Be careful what you wish for ...
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927

    Mr. Jessop, it's true that there's been a lot of rail problems in the south (I recall a prolonged period of one operator [Southern Rail?] being thoroughly atrocious). That doesn't change the fact that money to electrify northern rail lines is promised then goes missing, whereas Grayling can find £2bn for a Stonehenge tunnel that many fear will cause huge damage to a unique site.

    Edited extra bit: decided a mild insult against Grayling was unseemly, so removed it.

    Insults at Grayling are justified.

    He was a disastrous Justice Secretary.
    I really don't know what the point of him is.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    edited June 2018
    Mr. Meeks, it's very easy to remember bad luck and forget the good. (That said, I've had almost universally bad luck this F1 season and not a single notable stroke of good luck. The 2016 Spanish Grand Prix seems a long time ago).

    I've misjudged stuff too, of course, but almost every incident of luck has been ill. *sighs*

    Edited extra bit: Mr. F, Homer Simpson impersonator?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Mr. Jessop, it's true that there's been a lot of rail problems in the south (I recall a prolonged period of one operator [Southern Rail?] being thoroughly atrocious). That doesn't change the fact that money to electrify northern rail lines is promised then goes missing, whereas Grayling can find £2bn for a Stonehenge tunnel that many fear will cause huge damage to a unique site.

    Edited extra bit: decided a mild insult against Grayling was unseemly, so removed it.

    Insults at Grayling are justified.

    He was a disastrous Justice Secretary.
    The sad thing is that when GTR and Northern's rail problems occurred, Labour spent a couple of weeks attacking the private companies (who in the case of Northern were mostly blameless). A little pressure then could have got Grayling's scalp - and there is plenty of reason for him to go over this.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    Blaming investors is very easy. There are some fantastic emerging companies with patient long term investors. The U.K. is rarely best placed for mature industries so it often sense to sell to those who value our IP higher
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    So far Leave advocates have fallen in behind xenophobic lies, attacked the judiciary, attacked the civil service, attacked the House of Lords, attacked the media, attacked any business leader who has expressed qualms about the progress of Brexit, attacked the governor of the Bank of England and attacked the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The idea that they are going to change course because Brexit might be profoundly damaging to British industry is for the birds. Their paramount concern is to give free rein to their bottomless irrational hatred of the EU. Nothing else matters.
    unspoofable
    Looks pretty accurate to me, which part do you disagree with?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,799
    rkrkrk said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    The profitability of real estate has hurt manufacturing hugely I think. Real estate is something like 60% of bank lending now vs. 35-40% in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s...
    I think so too. Real Estate distorts so much of our economy. We need to get back to normal interest rates above inflation by acouple of percent.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,799

    In other news, I bet on Spain to top their group before the last match. I'll try to remember that bet next time I'm moaning about a bet unluckily not coming off.

    Uruguay are Fox jr 's tip. They have nine points and havent conceded a goal. At 30 on BFex they look value.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966
    Charles said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    Blaming investors is very easy. There are some fantastic emerging companies with patient long term investors. The U.K. is rarely best placed for mature industries so it often sense to sell to those who value our IP higher

    Our patent base is significantly lower than all our major competitors’ because company managements do not invest in R&D.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    Scott_P said:
    I doubt if she mixes with many Brexit supporters.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some of us on here wittered on about how few would hear the sound of £100m not being invested in the UK post-Brexit.

    Seems the Society of Motor Manufacturers is trying to bring just such a situation to our attention.

    Brexit: Car investment slumps as 'uncertainty bites' http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-44609003

    Edit: can't seem to get the link to work on a phone. The headline says it all, that said.

    car investment is cyclical shock

    the same was said when we wouldn't join the Euro, this is just the SMMT doing their special pleading act as they always do.
    Everything is fine in this best of all possible worlds.
    of course, our new economy of financial services will pay for everything
    Bit of a swerve, there, Alan.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966
    Foxy said:

    In other news, I bet on Spain to top their group before the last match. I'll try to remember that bet next time I'm moaning about a bet unluckily not coming off.

    Uruguay are Fox jr 's tip. They have nine points and havent conceded a goal. At 30 on BFex they look value.

    Colombia’s performance against Poland was the best in the tournament so far.

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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    The profitability of real estate has hurt manufacturing hugely I think. Real estate is something like 60% of bank lending now vs. 35-40% in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s...
    I think so too. Real Estate distorts so much of our economy. We need to get back to normal interest rates above inflation by acouple of percent.
    You can’t without bankrupting millions.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Dr. Foxy, looks good, have put a tiny sum on. (I've backed quite a few to win, but mostly long odds).
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    HYUFD said:
    Who of course also have absolute sovereignty.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:
    Who of course also have absolute sovereignty.
    An empire of dust.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,799
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    I doubt if she mixes with many Brexit supporters.
    To be fair she paraphrases much of what is posted by Leavers on here:

    1) covers the cheerleading for every seedy populist in the EU, whether AfD, LePen or Italian crypto fascists.

    2) is the old "German car manufacturers will force them to the table" chestnut.

    The problem is that Leavers are so focussed on money, that they are blind to the value that the EU puts on solidarity and pan-Europeanism. They despise the latter and cannot comprehend that others feel differently.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205

    Foxy said:

    In other news, I bet on Spain to top their group before the last match. I'll try to remember that bet next time I'm moaning about a bet unluckily not coming off.

    Uruguay are Fox jr 's tip. They have nine points and havent conceded a goal. At 30 on BFex they look value.

    Colombia’s performance against Poland was the best in the tournament so far.

    Better than Croatia v Argentina? I know Argentina are poor, but so are Poland.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    So far Leave advocates have fallen in behind xenophobic lies, attacked the judiciary, attacked the civil service, attacked the House of Lords, attacked the media, attacked any business leader who has expressed qualms about the progress of Brexit, attacked the governor of the Bank of England and attacked the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The idea that they are going to change course because Brexit might be profoundly damaging to British industry is for the birds. Their paramount concern is to give free rein to their bottomless irrational hatred of the EU. Nothing else matters.
    And have they made huge voluntary subventions to the most expressly foreigner-hating, immigrant-hating, jew-hating, muslim-hating regime the continent has seen since 1945 because, hey, you can't make a lifestyle statement without breaking eggs?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    London voted best place in the world to work ahead of New York though the UK falls to fifth behind Australia, Canada, the USA and Germany


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/london-voted-most-attractive-city-work-uk-brexit-us-canada-a8414536.html?amp
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    This European case is going to cause quite a stir, mostly among people who haven't followed its reasoning:

    https://twitter.com/JosephineCumbo/status/1011518838121385984
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "David Lynch says Trump 'could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history'

    The 'Twin Peaks' creator says it's because the president 'disrupted' the political system"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/david-lynch-trump-twin-peaks-greatest-presidents-room-to-dream-a8416486.html
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    Unless you live in a squat at the end of the proposed runway I doubt anyone in the country cares less about it. Boris has made it slightly interesting by once again publically soiling himself.

    I just heard an interview on the BBC where someone argued that the Tories needed him as next leader because he's 'exciting' (his biographer surprise surprise!) and Rachel Sylvester who thinks he's a twat and a back stabber who is now loathed by his fellow Tory MPs.

    For me the only surprise was that the BBC could find someone to speak up for him.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited June 2018
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    I doubt if she mixes with many Brexit supporters.
    To be fair she paraphrases much of what is posted by Leavers on here:

    1) covers the cheerleading for every seedy populist in the EU, whether AfD, LePen or Italian crypto fascists.

    2) is the old "German car manufacturers will force them to the table" chestnut.

    The problem is that Leavers are so focussed on money, that they are blind to the value that the EU puts on solidarity and pan-Europeanism. They despise the latter and cannot comprehend that others feel differently.
    The irony of Leavers parroting their mantra "it's a price worth paying...sovereignty is more important than money" the whole time and then being amazed when it appears the EU might feel the same way is, well, extraordinary.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    So far Leave advocates have fallen in behind xenophobic lies, attacked the judiciary, attacked the civil service, attacked the House of Lords, attacked the media, attacked any business leader who has expressed qualms about the progress of Brexit, attacked the governor of the Bank of England and attacked the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The idea that they are going to change course because Brexit might be profoundly damaging to British industry is for the birds. Their paramount concern is to give free rein to their bottomless irrational hatred of the EU. Nothing else matters.
    And have they made huge voluntary subventions to the most expressly foreigner-hating, immigrant-hating, jew-hating, muslim-hating regime the continent has seen since 1945 because, hey, you can't make a lifestyle statement without breaking eggs?
    Who has made a subvention to whom? Or are you using it in the same sense as that you would make a subvention to Tescos when you buy a pint of milk there?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    I doubt if she mixes with many Brexit supporters.
    To be fair she paraphrases much of what is posted by Leavers on here:

    1) covers the cheerleading for every seedy populist in the EU, whether AfD, LePen or Italian crypto fascists.

    2) is the old "German car manufacturers will force them to the table" chestnut.

    The problem is that Leavers are so focussed on money, that they are blind to the value that the EU puts on solidarity and pan-Europeanism. They despise the latter and cannot comprehend that others feel differently.
    Once you've categorised the Andrew Neil-ites and the David Davis-ites, the only ones left over are those who advocate The Road Brexit.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    I doubt if she mixes with many Brexit supporters.
    To be fair she paraphrases much of what is posted by Leavers on here:

    1) covers the cheerleading for every seedy populist in the EU, whether AfD, LePen or Italian crypto fascists.

    2) is the old "German car manufacturers will force them to the table" chestnut.

    The problem is that Leavers are so focussed on money, that they are blind to the value that the EU puts on solidarity and pan-Europeanism. They despise the latter and cannot comprehend that others feel differently.
    You describe Leavers’ failure to understand pan-European solidarity - and on this you are right.

    But equally Remainers I think are equally poor at understanding Leavers’ sense of nationhood and their feeling that their nation is a home and not just part of a greater territory to be inhabited by anyone who wants to be there regardless of the wishes of the homeowner.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for electric trains.

    Hinckley C, the Swansea Lagoons and other renewable technologies will only be able to provide a very small percentage of the power required to power all those new travel technologies, plus the homes, buildings and industries that will need to come into being to support them.

    Do we really want windmills all over our green and pleasant land, fields of solar panels rather than filled with cows, sheep or crops.

    Please do not mention Fusion or some other mythical technologies, unless there is some kind of unexpected amazing wonder breakthrough of the kind we have been promised for the past 50 years we will be stuffed..

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    Charles said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    Blaming investors is very easy. There are some fantastic emerging companies with patient long term investors. The U.K. is rarely best placed for mature industries so it often sense to sell to those who value our IP higher

    Our patent base is significantly lower than all our major competitors’ because company managements do not invest in R&D.

    Can one patent computer games?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,128
    This is the actual ONS data for business investment, at current prices, in the 'engineering and vehicles' manufacturing sector:

    1997 £9.247bn
    1998 £9.165bn
    1999 £8.763bn
    2000 £8.730bn
    2001 £7.797bn
    2002 £6.809bn
    2003 £6.139bn
    2004 £5.989bn
    2005 £6.678bn
    2006 £6.728bn
    2007 £6.927bn
    2008 £7.836bn
    2009 £6.902bn
    2010 £6.838bn
    2011 £7.854bn
    2012 £8.729bn
    2013 £8.630bn
    2014 £10.286bn
    2015 £10.540bn
    2016 £9.946bn
    2017 £11.225bn

    From page 4 of the spreadsheet on this link:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/datasets/businessinvestmentbyindustryandasset

    For 2018Q1 it is £2.722bn, which is the highest Q1 figure on record.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Miss Cyclefree, indeed, and that also works as a British/EU divide, a chasm in understanding which doesn't make these negotiations easier and led to membership being uncomfortable.

    British politicians triangulating the matter didn't help, and Brown's decision to ignore the manifesto pledge for a referendum and sign Lisbon was, perhaps, the worst example of this.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,565
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    I doubt if she mixes with many Brexit supporters.
    To be fair she paraphrases much of what is posted by Leavers on here:

    1) covers the cheerleading for every seedy populist in the EU, whether AfD, LePen or Italian crypto fascists.

    2) is the old "German car manufacturers will force them to the table" chestnut.

    The problem is that Leavers are so focussed on money, that they are blind to the value that the EU puts on solidarity and pan-Europeanism. They despise the latter and cannot comprehend that others feel differently.
    The irony of Leavers parroting their mantra "it's a price worth paying...sovereignty is more important than money" the whole time and then being amazed when it appears the EU might feel the same way is, well, extraordinary.
    In one of the greatest ironies in human history I think the EU have decided that when it comes to Brexit 'No deal is better than a bad deal'
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    The irony of Leavers parroting their mantra "it's a price worth paying...sovereignty is more important than money" the whole time and then being amazed when it appears the EU might feel the same way is, well, extraordinary.

    https://twitter.com/EvsSimon/status/1010262930976329730
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    This European case is going to cause quite a stir, mostly among people who haven't followed its reasoning:

    https://twitter.com/JosephineCumbo/status/1011518838121385984

    The state pension age will be 65 for men and women from November anyway soon rising to 67
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548



    A barrage is not necessarily fully green in CO2 terms, in the fact it uses oodles of concrete in construction - but then almost all construction requires hydraulic cement.

    Interestingly, a new British developmemnt migth reduce that:
    https://www.newcivilengineer.com/tech-excellence/graphene-super-concrete-could-cut-carbon-emissions/10030402.article

    Although it looks as though they'll probably use pozzolanic (Roman) concrete.

    Twice as strong and four times as water resistant as standard concrete.. sounds ideal for making massive undersea concrete balloons. They should chat with the Stensea chaps.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    This European case is going to cause quite a stir, mostly among people who haven't followed its reasoning:

    https://twitter.com/JosephineCumbo/status/1011518838121385984

    Should boost remain polling by er...

    Seems women's rights will be set back by newly formed women.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    What a juvenile waste of time - by the MP, the journo and the OP.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    edited June 2018
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    What a juvenile waste of time - by the MP, the journo and the OP.

    I'll mark you down as not caring about wasted government spending then.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Charles said:

    Blaming investors is very easy. There are some fantastic emerging companies with patient long term investors. The U.K. is rarely best placed for mature industries so it often sense to sell to those who value our IP higher

    It's easy to 'blame' investors because, sadly, it is true. (And note, I am not blaming them fully; as I say above there are other causes as well.)

    There are indeed some fantastic emerging companies with patient long-term investors. Yet there are also fantastic emerging companies that find it incredibly difficult to find investors that are willing to think anything more than a few years ahead.

    Also, the terms demanded by the 'patient long-term investors' are sometimes rather sh*t. And they're also rather overkeen on 'sexy' industries and not necessarily on ones that will pay off.

    The UK is brilliant at research and development in so many areas of science and technology. Yet we have a poor record at converting that R&D to world-beating products. IME lack of investment is a major reason for this.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited June 2018

    This European case is going to cause quite a stir, mostly among people who haven't followed its reasoning:

    https://twitter.com/JosephineCumbo/status/1011518838121385984

    Looks like equality of gender (wrt pension age) has come in just in the nick of time.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.

    The case is really more about the right of married transsexuals not to be required to end their marriage before being formally recognised as being of their new gender rather than about pension rights.

    The number of transsexuals is such that possible cost isn't really worth worrying about.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    This European case is going to cause quite a stir, mostly among people who haven't followed its reasoning:

    https://twitter.com/JosephineCumbo/status/1011518838121385984

    Looks like equality of gender has come in just in the nick of time for pensions.
    The ruling seems pretty simple to me. UK government was requiring a marriage annulment before granting the gender reassignment. ECJ says no need for the marriage annulment
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Mr. Meeks, that did seem odd given same sex marriage is also legal.

    Mr. Pulpstar, although, if we're assigning pension age based on longevity then women should have to retire later. One has the tiniest suspicion this will not be in any manifesto at the next election, though...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited June 2018

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.

    The case is really more about the right of married transsexuals not to be required to end their marriage before being formally recognised as being of their new gender rather than about pension rights.

    The number of transsexuals is such that possible cost isn't really worth worrying about.
    Could/Should annuity providers change the 'rate' paid to transsexuals ?
    That would benefit F-> M and disadvantage M -> F
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691
    'the Labour vote split 110 to 94 in favour'

    It's this sort of thing that keeps the Green Party alive.

    Shame on those 110.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    In other news, I bet on Spain to top their group before the last match. I'll try to remember that bet next time I'm moaning about a bet unluckily not coming off.

    How much does a VAR team costs to buy?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Mr. Pulpstar, I thought annuities had already been equalised on the basis of sexual discrimination, as per car insurance?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691
    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for electric trains.

    Hinckley C, the Swansea Lagoons and other renewable technologies will only be able to provide a very small percentage of the power required to power all those new travel technologies, plus the homes, buildings and industries that will need to come into being to support them.

    Do we really want windmills all over our green and pleasant land, fields of solar panels rather than filled with cows, sheep or crops.

    Please do not mention Fusion or some other mythical technologies, unless there is some kind of unexpected amazing wonder breakthrough of the kind we have been promised for the past 50 years we will be stuffed..

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    If we are going to go full-on with renewables then we also require huge investment in energy storage to kick in when it is cold, dark and the air is still. Otherwise we still need to build loads of gas-fired plants that sit there doing bugger all most of the time.

    If we want dispatchable green energy then either renewables plus storage or thermal plant with CO2 capture is the solution.

    Saying that renewables are cheaper is false if you don't include the cost of storage or back-up generation.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    In other news, I bet on Spain to top their group before the last match. I'll try to remember that bet next time I'm moaning about a bet unluckily not coming off.

    How much does a VAR team costs to buy?
    Given that those antics affected who Russia got to play, I don't think money could buy them. Novichok might.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Alistair said:

    I'll mark you down as not caring about wasted government spending then.

    Relax. there are only spending the "brexit dividend"...
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    The profitability of real estate has hurt manufacturing hugely I think. Real estate is something like 60% of bank lending now vs. 35-40% in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s...
    I think so too. Real Estate distorts so much of our economy. We need to get back to normal interest rates above inflation by acouple of percent.
    You need specific policy interventions to make Real Estate a less attractive investment compared to other business investment. Simply raise interest rates and you make finance more expensive for all types of investment.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for electric trains.

    Hinckley C, the Swansea Lagoons and other renewable technologies will only be able to provide a very small percentage of the power required to power all those new travel technologies, plus the homes, buildings and industries that will need to come into being to support them.

    Do we really want windmills all over our green and pleasant land, fields of solar panels rather than filled with cows, sheep or crops.

    Please do not mention Fusion or some other mythical technologies, unless there is some kind of unexpected amazing wonder breakthrough of the kind we have been promised for the past 50 years we will be stuffed..

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    The UK also has a very high tidal range and a lot of coast. The tidal range in the Severn Estuary is the second highest in the world.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for electric trains.

    Hinckley C, the Swansea Lagoons and other renewable technologies will only be able to provide a very small percentage of the power required to power all those new travel technologies, plus the homes, buildings and industries that will need to come into being to support them.

    Do we really want windmills all over our green and pleasant land, fields of solar panels rather than filled with cows, sheep or crops.

    Please do not mention Fusion or some other mythical technologies, unless there is some kind of unexpected amazing wonder breakthrough of the kind we have been promised for the past 50 years we will be stuffed..

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    If we are going to go full-on with renewables then we also require huge investment in energy storage to kick in when it is cold, dark and the air is still. Otherwise we still need to build loads of gas-fired plants that sit there doing bugger all most of the time.

    If we want dispatchable green energy then either renewables plus storage or thermal plant with CO2 capture is the solution.

    Saying that renewables are cheaper is false if you don't include the cost of storage or back-up generation.
    CO2 capture is dead and buried (pun intended).
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691
    HYUFD said:

    London voted best place in the world to work ahead of New York though the UK falls to fifth behind Australia, Canada, the USA and Germany


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/london-voted-most-attractive-city-work-uk-brexit-us-canada-a8414536.html?amp

    Best in the world if you work from home maybe. How can commuting into London be rated part of a 'best in the world' experience?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691

    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for electric trains.

    Hinckley C, the Swansea Lagoons and other renewable technologies will only be able to provide a very small percentage of the power required to power all those new travel technologies, plus the homes, buildings and industries that will need to come into being to support them.

    Do we really want windmills all over our green and pleasant land, fields of solar panels rather than filled with cows, sheep or crops.

    Please do not mention Fusion or some other mythical technologies, unless there is some kind of unexpected amazing wonder breakthrough of the kind we have been promised for the past 50 years we will be stuffed..

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    If we are going to go full-on with renewables then we also require huge investment in energy storage to kick in when it is cold, dark and the air is still. Otherwise we still need to build loads of gas-fired plants that sit there doing bugger all most of the time.

    If we want dispatchable green energy then either renewables plus storage or thermal plant with CO2 capture is the solution.

    Saying that renewables are cheaper is false if you don't include the cost of storage or back-up generation.
    CO2 capture is dead and buried (pun intended).
    No it isn't. It is the only technology option to achieve deep levels of decarbonisation of industries such as cement and iron & steel, and if we choose to decarbonise heat by switching the gas network to hydrogen, then the hydrogen will have to come from fossil fuel gasification / reforming with CO2 capture.

    If we are going to have to implement the technology anyway, then applying it to power generation to share the CO2 transport and storage infrastructure makes sense.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for electric trains.

    Hinckley C, the Swansea Lagoons and other renewable technologies will only be able to provide a very small percentage of the power required to power all those new travel technologies, plus the homes, buildings and industries that will need to come into being to support them.

    Do we really want windmills all over our green and pleasant land, fields of solar panels rather than filled with cows, sheep or crops.

    Please do not mention Fusion or some other mythical technologies, unless there is some kind of unexpected amazing wonder breakthrough of the kind we have been promised for the past 50 years we will be stuffed..

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    If we are going to go full-on with renewables then we also require huge investment in energy storage to kick in when it is cold, dark and the air is still. Otherwise we still need to build loads of gas-fired plants that sit there doing bugger all most of the time.

    If we want dispatchable green energy then either renewables plus storage or thermal plant with CO2 capture is the solution.

    Saying that renewables are cheaper is false if you don't include the cost of storage or back-up generation.
    CO2 capture is dead and buried (pun intended).
    No it isn't. It is the only technology option to achieve deep levels of decarbonisation of industries such as cement and iron & steel, and if we choose to decarbonise heat by switching the gas network to hydrogen, then the hydrogen will have to come from fossil fuel gasification / reforming with CO2 capture.

    If we are going to have to implement the technology anyway, then applying it to power generation to share the CO2 transport and storage infrastructure makes sense.
    "If we are going to have to implement the technology anyway"

    We have already spent a fortune on it, and there are no working plants, and none in the near future. There are good reasons for this sad state of affairs ...
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for electric trains.

    Hinckley C, the Swansea Lagoons and other renewable technologies will only be able to provide a very small percentage of the power required to power all those new travel technologies, plus the homes, buildings and industries that will need to come into being to support them.

    Do we really want windmills all over our green and pleasant land, fields of solar panels rather than filled with cows, sheep or crops.

    Please do not mention Fusion or some other mythical technologies, unless there is some kind of unexpected amazing wonder breakthrough of the kind we have been promised for the past 50 years we will be stuffed..

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    If we are going to go full-on with renewables then we also require huge investment in energy storage to kick in when it is cold, dark and the air is still. Otherwise we still need to build loads of gas-fired plants that sit there doing bugger all most of the time.

    If we want dispatchable green energy then either renewables plus storage or thermal plant with CO2 capture is the solution.

    Saying that renewables are cheaper is false if you don't include the cost of storage or back-up generation.
    CO2 capture is dead and buried (pun intended).
    And totally unnecessary. A few more ppm of a trace gas may help crops go faster but it isn't a trigger for Armageddon.


  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.

    The case is really more about the right of married transsexuals not to be required to end their marriage before being formally recognised as being of their new gender rather than about pension rights.

    The number of transsexuals is such that possible cost isn't really worth worrying about.
    So is all gender based legislation now worthless ?

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    What a juvenile waste of time - by the MP, the journo and the OP.

    I'll mark you down as not caring about wasted government spending then.
    Yes when we examine the money wasted on the LHR decision over the last 30 years , a Labour MP playing Where's Wally will be a key part of the financial equation...
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966

    Charles said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    Blaming investors is very easy. There are some fantastic emerging companies with patient long term investors. The U.K. is rarely best placed for mature industries so it often sense to sell to those who value our IP higher

    Our patent base is significantly lower than all our major competitors’ because company managements do not invest in R&D.

    Can one patent computer games?

    The games would probably be covered by copyright and trademark protection. You can get patents on computer implemented inventions, though.

  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    I feel most of this is probably true.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-news-eu-talks-brussels-uk-theresa-may-a8416076.html

    “There is not an issue of general distrust towards the UK. That’s not the issue, but the EU is a rules-based system. Why is that? It’s because 28 member states do not trust each other spontaneously; they trust each other because they work on the basis of agreed common rules with common enforcement, common supervision and under a European court that will make sure they all apply the same rules in the same manner. They trust each other because there are remedies available. If you don’t have these remedies, you’re a third country.”

    People have often scratched their heads at the complexity of the EU but maybe it's really very simple. Why do we have such difficulty understanding this?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,691

    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    If we are going to go full-on with renewables then we also require huge investment in energy storage to kick in when it is cold, dark and the air is still. Otherwise we still need to build loads of gas-fired plants that sit there doing bugger all most of the time.

    If we want dispatchable green energy then either renewables plus storage or thermal plant with CO2 capture is the solution.

    Saying that renewables are cheaper is false if you don't include the cost of storage or back-up generation.
    CO2 capture is dead and buried (pun intended).
    No it isn't. It is the only technology option to achieve deep levels of decarbonisation of industries such as cement and iron & steel, and if we choose to decarbonise heat by switching the gas network to hydrogen, then the hydrogen will have to come from fossil fuel gasification / reforming with CO2 capture.

    If we are going to have to implement the technology anyway, then applying it to power generation to share the CO2 transport and storage infrastructure makes sense.
    "If we are going to have to implement the technology anyway"

    We have already spent a fortune on it, and there are no working plants, and none in the near future. There are good reasons for this sad state of affairs ...
    The reasons are that successive 'competitions' have been poorly set out, poorly run and subject to political expediency to cancel rather than proceed. It isn't just our government that has buggered this up. Look at the EU's NER300 programme for an example of a total shambles.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Serious crash on the A47:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-44612842

    I was walking at Guyhirn on Friday, and later on in the day caught the Norwich to Peterborough bus that runs through it.

    It makes such reports a little more real ...

    I hope everyone is okay.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Alistair said:

    OchEye said:

    One point about all these electric planes, cars and what have you, that I question, is where is all this electricity going to come from?

    Last year the SNP shouted out that renewables were powering Scotland's homes for all of a couple of weeks in the year. Sounds fine until you realise that the power to homes is only 40% of all the power required, the other 60% is required for business and industry, including for

    Ps: In mentioning the SNP, I would say that any government would be only too happy to spin the news given half a chance. Just the SNP seems to be able to do spin better than all those e***n windmills.

    Yes, we should have loads more wind and solar. Only a teeny tiny fraction of Britain is built on, we can easily have loads more renewables installed.
    If we are going to go full-on with renewables then we also require huge investment in energy storage to kick in when it is cold, dark and the air is still. Otherwise we still need to build loads of gas-fired plants that sit there doing bugger all most of the time.

    If we want dispatchable green energy then either renewables plus storage or thermal plant with CO2 capture is the solution.

    Saying that renewables are cheaper is false if you don't include the cost of storage or back-up generation.
    CO2 capture is dead and buried (pun intended).
    No it isn't. It is the only technology option to achieve deep levels of decarbonisation of industries such as cement and iron & steel, and if we choose to decarbonise heat by switching the gas network to hydrogen, then the hydrogen will have to come from fossil fuel gasification / reforming with CO2 capture.

    If we are going to have to implement the technology anyway, then applying it to power generation to share the CO2 transport and storage infrastructure makes sense.
    "If we are going to have to implement the technology anyway"

    We have already spent a fortune on it, and there are no working plants, and none in the near future. There are good reasons for this sad state of affairs ...
    The reasons are that successive 'competitions' have been poorly set out, poorly run and subject to political expediency to cancel rather than proceed. It isn't just our government that has buggered this up. Look at the EU's NER300 programme for an example of a total shambles.
    Perhaps everyone's buggering it up because it's actually a dead-end that no-one can get to work reliably outside of very rare edge cases?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618

    I feel most of this is probably true.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-news-eu-talks-brussels-uk-theresa-may-a8416076.html

    “There is not an issue of general distrust towards the UK. That’s not the issue, but the EU is a rules-based system. Why is that? It’s because 28 member states do not trust each other spontaneously; they trust each other because they work on the basis of agreed common rules with common enforcement, common supervision and under a European court that will make sure they all apply the same rules in the same manner. They trust each other because there are remedies available. If you don’t have these remedies, you’re a third country.”

    People have often scratched their heads at the complexity of the EU but maybe it's really very simple. Why do we have such difficulty understanding this?

    A rules based system that let Greece into Eurozone, that let Germany and France break the fiscal rules for 5+ years? That rules based system.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.

    The case is really more about the right of married transsexuals not to be required to end their marriage before being formally recognised as being of their new gender rather than about pension rights.

    The number of transsexuals is such that possible cost isn't really worth worrying about.
    If you can self-identify, then you might have expected that to have boosted a lot, unless you define what makes a woman a woman, or a man a man.

    If it boiled down to a tick box on a form....
  • Options



    People have often scratched their heads at the complexity of the EU but maybe it's really very simple. Why do we have such difficulty understanding this?

    Because they so often ignore or pervert the rules or allow certain member states to get away with doing so with no consequence...
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TGOHF said:

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.

    The case is really more about the right of married transsexuals not to be required to end their marriage before being formally recognised as being of their new gender rather than about pension rights.

    The number of transsexuals is such that possible cost isn't really worth worrying about.
    So is all gender based legislation now worthless ?

    I'll put you down as one of the ones having difficulty reading.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966
    File under sad, but true ...

    This then is the state of British politics. A Labour party which has fallen to anti-capitalists and a Conservative party, infected by a strain of economic denialism and with a core — though not yet a majority — who place little store in business-friendly policies.
    For the first time in 40 years business cannot be sure that either major party cares about its interests. The nation must hope that global businesses making investment decisions and hearing of Mr Johnson’s remark do not plump for the obvious reply.

    https://www.ft.com/content/8075e68c-7857-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475?segmentId=778a3b31-0eac-c57a-a529-d296f5da8125
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    File under sad, but true ...

    This then is the state of British politics. A Labour party which has fallen to anti-capitalists and a Conservative party, infected by a strain of economic denialism and with a core — though not yet a majority — who place little store in business-friendly policies.
    For the first time in 40 years business cannot be sure that either major party cares about its interests. The nation must hope that global businesses making investment decisions and hearing of Mr Johnson’s remark do not plump for the obvious reply.

    https://www.ft.com/content/8075e68c-7857-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475?segmentId=778a3b31-0eac-c57a-a529-d296f5da8125

    That is sorrying.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.

    The case is really more about the right of married transsexuals not to be required to end their marriage before being formally recognised as being of their new gender rather than about pension rights.

    The number of transsexuals is such that possible cost isn't really worth worrying about.
    If you can self-identify, then you might have expected that to have boosted a lot, unless you define what makes a woman a woman, or a man a man.

    If it boiled down to a tick box on a form....
    So what's to stop men ticking a box to get their pension early from now until the ages are equalised ?

    The law should apply to your sex at birth. End of - would stop all this nonsense.

    Or you don't have laws that differentiate between sexes - choose your poison.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    MaxPB said:

    I feel most of this is probably true.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-news-eu-talks-brussels-uk-theresa-may-a8416076.html

    “There is not an issue of general distrust towards the UK. That’s not the issue, but the EU is a rules-based system. Why is that? It’s because 28 member states do not trust each other spontaneously; they trust each other because they work on the basis of agreed common rules with common enforcement, common supervision and under a European court that will make sure they all apply the same rules in the same manner. They trust each other because there are remedies available. If you don’t have these remedies, you’re a third country.”

    People have often scratched their heads at the complexity of the EU but maybe it's really very simple. Why do we have such difficulty understanding this?

    A rules based system that let Greece into Eurozone, that let Germany and France break the fiscal rules for 5+ years? That rules based system.
    The rules may be bent but only in favour of integration. Why don't we just accept this and stop trying to be the tennis player who won't abide by the club membership rules but expects most of its perks.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    TGOHF said:

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), serious questions raised by this, though, as gender can be a factor in risk for insurance purposes.

    I seem to recall the EU making a similar stupid judgement on car insurance, and annuities (men live shorter lives so got higher annual payouts).

    Pretending the genders are collectively identical when they're clearly not is nuts.

    Edited extra bit: just on the specific case: pension ages are being equalised, so, going forward, this sort of thing shouldn't really arise again. The general point, though, will probably have more, different, cases.

    The case is really more about the right of married transsexuals not to be required to end their marriage before being formally recognised as being of their new gender rather than about pension rights.

    The number of transsexuals is such that possible cost isn't really worth worrying about.
    If you can self-identify, then you might have expected that to have boosted a lot, unless you define what makes a woman a woman, or a man a man.

    If it boiled down to a tick box on a form....
    So what's to stop men ticking a box to get their pension early from now until the ages are equalised ?

    The law should apply to your sex at birth. End of - would stop all this nonsense.

    Or you don't have laws that differentiate between sexes - choose your poison.
    Well we're moving to the second one. So it's a bit of a moot point, but trans rights are a reasonable cause. It's just negoiating from point A to point B.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    MaxPB said:

    I feel most of this is probably true.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-news-eu-talks-brussels-uk-theresa-may-a8416076.html

    “There is not an issue of general distrust towards the UK. That’s not the issue, but the EU is a rules-based system. Why is that? It’s because 28 member states do not trust each other spontaneously; they trust each other because they work on the basis of agreed common rules with common enforcement, common supervision and under a European court that will make sure they all apply the same rules in the same manner. They trust each other because there are remedies available. If you don’t have these remedies, you’re a third country.”

    People have often scratched their heads at the complexity of the EU but maybe it's really very simple. Why do we have such difficulty understanding this?

    A rules based system that let Greece into Eurozone, that let Germany and France break the fiscal rules for 5+ years? That rules based system.
    The rules may be bent but only in favour of integration. Why don't we just accept this and stop trying to be the tennis player who won't abide by the club membership rules but expects most of its perks.
    A tennis club where some members pay to join and others get paid to join ?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618

    MaxPB said:

    I feel most of this is probably true.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-news-eu-talks-brussels-uk-theresa-may-a8416076.html

    “There is not an issue of general distrust towards the UK. That’s not the issue, but the EU is a rules-based system. Why is that? It’s because 28 member states do not trust each other spontaneously; they trust each other because they work on the basis of agreed common rules with common enforcement, common supervision and under a European court that will make sure they all apply the same rules in the same manner. They trust each other because there are remedies available. If you don’t have these remedies, you’re a third country.”

    People have often scratched their heads at the complexity of the EU but maybe it's really very simple. Why do we have such difficulty understanding this?

    A rules based system that let Greece into Eurozone, that let Germany and France break the fiscal rules for 5+ years? That rules based system.
    The rules may be bent but only in favour of integration. Why don't we just accept this and stop trying to be the tennis player who won't abide by the club membership rules but expects most of its perks.
    We did, in June 2016. It's the remainers who won't accept it.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    TGOHF said:

    MaxPB said:

    I feel most of this is probably true.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-news-eu-talks-brussels-uk-theresa-may-a8416076.html

    “There is not an issue of general distrust towards the UK. That’s not the issue, but the EU is a rules-based system. Why is that? It’s because 28 member states do not trust each other spontaneously; they trust each other because they work on the basis of agreed common rules with common enforcement, common supervision and under a European court that will make sure they all apply the same rules in the same manner. They trust each other because there are remedies available. If you don’t have these remedies, you’re a third country.”

    People have often scratched their heads at the complexity of the EU but maybe it's really very simple. Why do we have such difficulty understanding this?

    A rules based system that let Greece into Eurozone, that let Germany and France break the fiscal rules for 5+ years? That rules based system.
    The rules may be bent but only in favour of integration. Why don't we just accept this and stop trying to be the tennis player who won't abide by the club membership rules but expects most of its perks.
    A tennis club where some members pay to join and others get paid to join ?
    In a way, yeah. If you don't like it walk away and accept no deal.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291

    Charles said:

    Those motor industry investment figures are bad enough on their own, but they are just one example from across manufacturing. We really need to stop digging the Brexit hole and work out how we get out of it.

    crocodile tears

    where were the scream as Blair destroyed manufacturing ?

    the same people yelling today are the ones who dismissed everything as Brirish Leyland 10 years ago and said let it go.
    What stupid rubbish. I decried the reduction in manufacturing throughout that time, even if I didn't have any easy answers. And I decry this as well.
    oh good weve got one convert
    Don't be a silly sausage,. My views on this sort of thing are pretty much the same as they have been for a couple of decades.

    And it's an interesting choice of words: 'convert'. Brexit really is a religion for some, which is why otherwise intelligent people on both sides seem to lose all sense when it comes to it.
    chortle

    convert has nothing to do with Brexit it's got to do with country having a robust manufacturing base and not having a political class which destroys it through neglect.
    You see, I don't see the 'political class' as being the cause of manufacturings woes.

    In first place I'd pace banking and investors, who want short-term results and fail to invest in the long term. This has been a real killer.
    In second place I'd put owners and management, who can be far too conservative when it comes to new ideas and investment, often because of the first factor.
    In third place I'd put employees and the unions, who can sometimes act directly against their medium- and long-term interests.

    Politics and politicians would come far down the list. But it's an easy to use them as a hate figure and miss the real issues.
    Blaming investors is very easy. There are some fantastic emerging companies with patient long term investors. The U.K. is rarely best placed for mature industries so it often sense to sell to those who value our IP higher

    Our patent base is significantly lower than all our major competitors’ because company managements do not invest in R&D.

    Can one patent computer games?

    The games would probably be covered by copyright and trademark protection. You can get patents on computer implemented inventions, though.

    Game are notoriously difficult to protect.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Mr. Urquhart, there are a couple of interesting legal cases going through. The first relates to PUBG's chaps suing Fortnite's chaps, and the second to Bethesda suing Warner Brothers. You can't copyright things like a genre or gameplay approach, but things like in-game assets and source code are protected, it seems.

    Although Checkpoint is a wry, comedic look at gaming news, the reporting on said litigation stories is actually rather informative:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgJERaSrPhw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXDCijt4-I
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited June 2018

    Mr. Urquhart, there are a couple of interesting legal cases going through. The first relates to PUBG's chaps suing Fortnite's chaps, and the second to Bethesda suing Warner Brothers. You can't copyright things like a genre or gameplay approach, but things like in-game assets and source code are protected, it seems.

    Although Checkpoint is a wry, comedic look at gaming news, the reporting on said litigation stories is actually rather informative:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgJERaSrPhw

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXDCijt4-I

    From what I read, the PubG one against Fortnite seems ludicrous.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Wait - wont this stop protesters getting to Balmoral ? Oh..

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1011541398015954944
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,004
    Mr. Urquhart, that may be because what you read was indeed ludicrous, but also doesn't bear much relation to reality.

    It seems that there's been a lot of reporting that PUBG are claiming legal ownership of the battle royale format. However, that seems not to be the case. Six minutes of the first (12 minutes) video is dedicated to explaining why this isn't the case. It sounds far more reasonable.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997

    'the Labour vote split 110 to 94 in favour'

    It's this sort of thing that keeps the Green Party alive.

    Shame on those 110.

    Here is Zac's speech. Worth reading.

    http://www.zacgoldsmith.com/zacs-speech-on-heathrow/
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052

    File under sad, but true ...

    This then is the state of British politics. A Labour party which has fallen to anti-capitalists and a Conservative party, infected by a strain of economic denialism and with a core — though not yet a majority — who place little store in business-friendly policies.
    For the first time in 40 years business cannot be sure that either major party cares about its interests. The nation must hope that global businesses making investment decisions and hearing of Mr Johnson’s remark do not plump for the obvious reply.

    https://www.ft.com/content/8075e68c-7857-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475?segmentId=778a3b31-0eac-c57a-a529-d296f5da8125

    I get the inadequacies of our politicians but I am rather tired of the invoking of the name of 'business' all the time. And what exactly can be described as business friendly policies? The only universals that might make some sense would be tax cuts and anti-union laws. What the government should focus on is boosting economic performance. Many businesses then ought to succeed but others will fail and be replaced. I thought that was the idea? Or do people just want a cosy club?
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Mr. Urquhart, that may be because what you read was indeed ludicrous, but also doesn't bear much relation to reality.

    It seems that there's been a lot of reporting that PUBG are claiming legal ownership of the battle royale format. However, that seems not to be the case. Six minutes of the first (12 minutes) video is dedicated to explaining why this isn't the case. It sounds far more reasonable.

    PUBG are just pissed that they have been overshawdowed by Forenite. They were a huge thing when they were the only one around, and just look like yesterdays news now.

    (I actually do prefer to play PubG, as I'm not a 12 year old boy).
This discussion has been closed.