If only David Davis had been able to talk beforehand to the DUP members who are supporting the minority government.
No surrender to the DUP?
A bunch of deranged bigoted orangemen are running the country.
Brexit is a joke. A very bad, unfunny joke.
Nah, at it's best it's hilarious.
You have all these pompous nationalists who've said how wonderful Brexit would be, how Britain would ride high in the world, and how they would get a great deal, and it was all about getting a narrow loss in the referendum so they could look like heroic runners-up who pushed the establishment all the way.
But instead they won, they had to own and implement everything, and all the nonsense it was built on got exposed. £350m per week for the NHS? Current Treasury estimate is a £122bn cost. Easy dealings as we hold all the cards? Ermmm.... New trade deals to be signed within 2 years? Liam Fox can't give any assurances about keeping the ones we have. Irish border will be seamless? 2 years after referendum plans for this don't last a day. Global influence? We're being locked out of Galileo and EU still getting deals ahead of us. Blue passports? OK, yeah we got blue passports. Let's hold onto the passports.
If we weren't affected personally, it would be really really funny. And some days when I decide I have other things to worry about. it is.
Mr. Song, indeed, the complacency of Cameron and dithering (whether intentional to run down the clock, or not) of May is unimpressive.
Mr. rpjs, et al., if you believe terrorists ought to determine our policy, that's up to you. Personally, I'm not a fan of appeasing murderers, nor of those who seek to provoke as much discontent as possible to try and bolster their own political perspective.
You clearly know as much about Irish politics as you do about the nightlife of London, or the restaurants of France.
Mr/Miss Anazina, I believe Northern Ireland's ways should be determined peacefully, by its people, at the ballot box. Don't you?
I also believe that allowing terrorism or the threat of such murderous acts to determine policy is horrendous in both moral and practical terms. Don't you?
If only David Davis had been able to talk beforehand to the DUP members who are supporting the minority government.
No surrender to the DUP?
A bunch of deranged bigoted orangemen are running the country.
Brexit is a joke. A very bad, unfunny joke.
Nah, at it's best it's hilarious.
You have all these pompous nationalists who've said how wonderful Brexit would be, how Britain would ride high in the world, and how they would get a great deal, and it was all about getting a narrow loss in the referendum so they could look like heroic runners-up who pushed the establishment all the way.
But instead they won, they had to own and implement everything, and all the nonsense it was built on got exposed. £350m per week for the NHS? Current Treasury estimate is a £122bn cost. Easy dealings as we hold all the cards? Ermmm.... New trade deals to be signed within 2 years? Liam Fox can't give any assurances about keeping the ones we have. Irish border will be seamless? 2 years after referendum plans for this don't last a day. Global influence? We're being locked out of Galileo and EU still getting deals ahead of us. Blue passports? OK, yeah we got blue passports. Let's hold onto the passports.
If we weren't affected personally, it would be really really funny. And some days when I decide I have other things to worry about. it is.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Given a large proportion of the population of Ireland refuses to recognise Northern Ireland as an entity and considers the British to be illegally occupying a nation state,
Citation required. Since you know so much about Irish politics.....
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Of 1.3 million German cars sold in the US last year, more than 800,000 were made on American soil, according to data from the German car lobby VDA.
So 500,000 'German' cars are imported to the USA from Germany, Mexico or elsewhere.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
The SLS and CLS are also imported. But yes, all the big selling models like the E-Class are made in the US. And all Mercedes/Daimler's truck and bus manufacturing for the Americas is in the US. Once you include that, you may well be right. They could be a net exporter.
Little difference, surely. The most lucrative scams are going to continue to be fags, booze and fuel. I can't see why gangs would bother with anything else.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Car Imports into the United States
Below are the top 15 suppliers from which the United States imported the highest dollar value worth of cars during 2017. Within parenthesis is the percentage change in value for each supplying country since 2013.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Car Imports into the United States
Below are the top 15 suppliers from which the United States imported the highest dollar value worth of cars during 2017. Within parenthesis is the percentage change in value for each supplying country since 2013.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Of 1.3 million German cars sold in the US last year, more than 800,000 were made on American soil, according to data from the German car lobby VDA.
So 500,000 'German' cars are imported to the USA from Germany, Mexico or elsewhere.
Yes, but Mercedes is the German carmaker that has invested most in moving its production to the US.
If you want to point fingers: Audi and Porsche have minimal US production capability, and while BMW and VW have more, they both have a much lower percentage than Mercedes.
Edit to add: of course, Audi, Porsche and VW are sister companies.
Agree completely: both the UK and the EU have damaged themselves in the Brexit process.
They have seen Brexit as a one-off transaction, and have determined to nickle and dime us. Their failure to realise that our long-term strategic interests align, and that we should be close allies will cost them dear.
Our error was to fail to realise that the EU felt like a dumped girlfriend. Publicly gloating that our exit would cause "the whole house of cards to collapse" was unlikely to put the EU in a frame of mind to smooth our exit.
We have, belatedly, realised our errors. I do not believe the EU has (yet) realised theirs.
Shouldn't this have been obvious to everyone from the get go?. Why is it in the EU's interest to subvert their own project as a favour to the ex member who puts the project into jeopardy, simply because that ex member can't reconcile the contradictions of its own position?
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructure for the border with Ireland? It's an absolutely absurd suggestion that would have simply brought all the fundamental problems with Brexit to a head much quicker, in a more febrile domestic political environment.
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Of 1.3 million German cars sold in the US last year, more than 800,000 were made on American soil, according to data from the German car lobby VDA.
So 500,000 'German' cars are imported to the USA from Germany, Mexico or elsewhere.
Thanks for those numbers. VW have a large plant in Mexico which will reduce further the US imports from Europe.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Agreed. But that begs the question of what comes next, and why May would want to time the erasure of her red lines to be so soon. If she's planning a second referendum it would make sense.
Do you think there's a majority in the Commons for Referendum 2? Could she even get it done before March?
If May backed it, Corbyn couldn't get away with opposing it so therefore there would be a majority. I think we could get an A50 extension if needed to allow time for it. If it were held in the run up to the European elections it would bring into focus that we would be choosing between having a say and having no say.
If May backed it - she'd face a leadership challenge immediately, I can't imagine the likes of Gove could back her if one of the referendum options was staying in.
She could face down a leadership challenge and win, and if it were already clear that the only Brexit she could get through the Commons would involve a customs union, many Brexiteers would reluctantly accept that it's inevitable anyway.
"No deal is better than a bad deal." T May
Not to mention
"there will not be a general election" "EU citizens arriving after March 2019 will not have automatic right of settlement" "the ECJ will have no jurisdiction in the UK after Brexit" "no British PM could ever sign up to anything which proposed a customs border in the Irish sea"
May's commitments rarely survive more than a day or two.
I have the impression that the poor woman really does have no idea what she is saying.
Agree completely: both the UK and the EU have damaged themselves in the Brexit process.
They have seen Brexit as a one-off transaction, and have determined to nickle and dime us. Their failure to realise that our long-term strategic interests align, and that we should be close allies will cost them dear.
Our error was to fail to realise that the EU felt like a dumped girlfriend. Publicly gloating that our exit would cause "the whole house of cards to collapse" was unlikely to put the EU in a frame of mind to smooth our exit.
We have, belatedly, realised our errors. I do not believe the EU has (yet) realised theirs.
Shouldn't this have been obvious to everyone from the get go?. Why is it in the EU's interest to subvert their own project as a favour to the ex member who puts the project into jeopardy, simply because that ex member can't reconcile the contradictions of its own position?
But the UK is so unique and important to the EU that it is obviously in its interests to give us everything we wish for.
We know this because the Brexiteers told us it was so.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Indeed, the correct negotiating strategy would have been to have talked softly (i.e., been nice about our neighbours in public) but carried a big stick (i.e., to have been clearly prepared to go for no deal, if need be).
Instead we went for insulting them, while doing nothing to prepare for No Deal Brexit.
Would we be happy to fund the protection costs which would accompany anyone trying to lay the first foundation stone in NI?
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Given a large proportion of the population of Ireland refuses to recognise Northern Ireland as an entity and considers the British to be illegally occupying a nation state,
Citation required. Since you know so much about Irish politics.....
Any border infrastructure would become totemic to those dissident IRA groups which continue to operate both north and south of the border.
Agree completely: both the UK and the EU have damaged themselves in the Brexit process.
They have seen Brexit as a one-off transaction, and have determined to nickle and dime us. Their failure to realise that our long-term strategic interests align, and that we should be close allies will cost them dear.
Our error was to fail to realise that the EU felt like a dumped girlfriend. Publicly gloating that our exit would cause "the whole house of cards to collapse" was unlikely to put the EU in a frame of mind to smooth our exit.
We have, belatedly, realised our errors. I do not believe the EU has (yet) realised theirs.
Shouldn't this have been obvious to everyone from the get go?. Why is it in the EU's interest to subvert their own project as a favour to the ex member who puts the project into jeopardy, simply because that ex member can't reconcile the contradictions of its own position?
It has now become traitorous to suggest that the EU is negotiating for its own best interests.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Car Imports into the United States
Below are the top 15 suppliers from which the United States imported the highest dollar value worth of cars during 2017. Within parenthesis is the percentage change in value for each supplying country since 2013.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructure for the border with Ireland? It's an absolutely absurd suggestion that would have simply brought all the fundamental problems with Brexit to a head much quicker, in a more febrile domestic political environment.
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructure for the border with Ireland? It's an absolutely absurd suggestion that would have simply brought all the fundamental problems with Brexit to a head much quicker, in a more febrile domestic political environment.
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
If you are talking border infrastructure you are talking a whole different ballgame of enforcement.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Car Imports into the United States
Below are the top 15 suppliers from which the United States imported the highest dollar value worth of cars during 2017. Within parenthesis is the percentage change in value for each supplying country since 2013.
There's a certain irony that Trump has singled out the German car maker that is probably most committed to manufacturing in the US.
Yes, that was a silly example to choose. I’d guess that only the high end S-class and AMG models sold in the US are made in Germany, Mercedes is quite likely to be a net exporter of cars from the US.
Car Imports into the United States
Below are the top 15 suppliers from which the United States imported the highest dollar value worth of cars during 2017. Within parenthesis is the percentage change in value for each supplying country since 2013.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructure for the border with Ireland? It's an absolutely absurd suggestion that would have simply brought all the fundamental problems with Brexit to a head much quicker, in a more febrile domestic political environment.
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
If you are talking border infrastructure you are talking a whole different ballgame of enforcement.
actually I don't think you are, most cross border trade passes over a handful of A roads between North and South and there are already procedures in the UK for imports. Same for the RoI
Legal businesses will fall in to line because that's what honest people do. Smugglers etc are currently at work irresepective of the infrastructure and since a lot of the smugglers have paramilitary links the police try to stop them so they cant raise funds.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Where in the GFA does it prohibit customs checks?
If there are customs checks those locations will have to be fortified and protected 24 hours a day. In the GFA there is a committment to no hard border, but hard border is exactly what it would be.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructure for the border with Ireland? It's an absolutely absurd suggestion that would have simply brought all the fundamental problems with Brexit to a head much quicker, in a more febrile domestic political environment.
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
If you are talking border infrastructure you are talking a whole different ballgame of enforcement.
actually I don't think you are, most cross border trade passes over a handful of A roads between North and South and there are already procedures in the UK for imports. Same for the RoI
Legal businesses will fall in to line because that's what honest people do. Smugglers etc are currently at work irresepective of the infrastructure and since a lot of the smugglers have paramilitary links the police try to stop them so they cant raise funds.
It depends on how formal or if any border posts will be set up. If we decline to put up any border infrastructure, and the EU does also, then there would not be an issue. One Customs post, however, would sink the whole idea.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they have scrapped the bottom of the barrel to find solutions that the EU might agree to. All to no avail - which leaves going for WTO terms, which is where we should have started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructure for the border with Ireland? It's an absolutely absurd suggestion that would have simply brought all the fundamental problems with Brexit to a head much quicker, in a more febrile domestic political environment.
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
If you are talking border infrastructure you are talking a whole different ballgame of enforcement.
actually I don't think you are, most cross border trade passes over a handful of A roads between North and South and there are already procedures in the UK for imports. Same for the RoI
Legal businesses will fall in to line because that's what honest people do. Smugglers etc are currently at work irresepective of the infrastructure and since a lot of the smugglers have paramilitary links the police try to stop them so they cant raise funds.
It depends on how formal or if any border posts will be set up. If we decline to put up any border infrastructure, and the EU does also, then there would not be an issue. One Customs post, however, would sink the whole idea.
I think you are being over pessimistic
In the current situations it's the Republic which has the bigger problem and needs the border posts
beer, fags, booze and petrol are all cheaper up North. My daughter who lives in Cork always fills the car to bursting when she goes to see my brother in NI
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they hae started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructu
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
If you are talking border infrastructure you are talking a whole different ballgame of enforcement.
actually I don't think you ary links the police try to stop them so they cant raise funds.
It depends on how formal or if any border posts will be set up. If we decline to put up any border infrastructure, and the EU does also, then there would not be an issue. One Customs post, however, would sink the whole idea.
I think you are being over pessimistic
In the current situations it's the Republic which has the bigger problem and needs the border posts
beer, fags, booze and petrol are all cheaper up North. My daughter who lives in Cork always fills the car to bursting when she goes to see my brother in NI
That's a small price to pay for the Republic. It can't politically put any up. And yet there will be a whole different tariff and regulatory environment. It just doesn't add up.
I sincerely hope I am being pessimistic I just can't see how it will all work.
It looks like Theresa May wants the DUP to vote for a customs union. It’s hard to see another explanation for the government’s floated proposal.
Gov't demonstarting they hae started negotiations.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructu
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
If you are talking border infrastructure you are talking a whole different ballgame of enforcement.
actually I don't think you ary links the police try to stop them so they cant raise funds.
It depends on how formal or if any border posts will be set up. If we decline to put up any border infrastructure, and the EU does also, then there would not be an issue. One Customs post, however, would sink the whole idea.
I think you are being over pessimistic
In the current situations it's the Republic which has the bigger problem and needs the border posts
beer, fags, booze and petrol are all cheaper up North. My daughter who lives in Cork always fills the car to bursting when she goes to see my brother in NI
That's a small price to pay for the Republic. It can't politically put any up. And yet there will be a whole different tariff and regulatory environment. It just doesn't add up.
I sincerely hope I am being pessimistic I just can't see how it will all work.
There already is a different regulatory and tariff environment
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Where in the GFA does it prohibit customs checks?
If there are customs checks those locations will have to be fortified and protected 24 hours a day. In the GFA there is a committment to no hard border, but hard border is exactly what it would be.
Can you quote the relevant section. I think I looked for it previously but couldn’t find it.
Fortified? The checks don’t necessarily have to be on the border. Companies can report on what was imported/exported. While it might be more porous, it’d be much easier to do politically.
We should have started building border infrastructure and hiring staff the day after the Brexit vote.
Where do you put the infrastructure for the border with Ireland? It's an absolutely absurd suggestion that would have simply brought all the fundamental problems with Brexit to a head much quicker, in a more febrile domestic political environment.
Populist, heal thyself.
total guff as ever
the majority of trade passes over a handful of roads, the rest is just a simple enforcement matter. The vast majority of companies will comply with the law because that's what honest people do.
The crooks will try to exploit the border, but then theyre doing that today something that doesn't appear to worry you.
"Just a simple enforcement matter."
LOL
you think nobody is enforcing the border atm ?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
If you are talking border infrastructure you are talking a whole different ballcgame of enforcement.
actually I don't think you are, most cross border trade passes over a handful of A roads between North and South and there are already procedures in the UK for imports. Same for the RoI
Legal businesses will fall in to line because that's what honest people do. Smugglers etc are currently at work irresepective of the infrastructure and since a lot of the smugglers have paramilitary links the police try to stop them so they cant raise funds.
It depends on how formal or if any border posts will be set up. If we decline to put up any border infrastructure, and the EU does also, then there would not be an issue. One Customs post, however, would sink the whole idea.
There’s always been a huge amount of fudge in NI for the obvious historic reasons, and also a huge amount of fudge in the EU when it matters to them. What I don’t understand is how their rules are now utterly indivisible and inviolable when it comes to a border in NI.
Which is why the British should call their bluff, as someone put it earlier in the thread, “EU build a fence if you want to, but we’re not building one.”
I just saw that Platosays has been suspended from Twitter.
Her journey from centre-right to further-right to alt-right to mentalist-right was fun to watch. What did she do?
How does anyone get banned from twitter? They let Donald Trump on FFS.
Twitter have been slowly taken over by the illiberal ‘liberals’, and banning thousands of accounts of people with right wing views. If Trump wasn’t President they’d have probably banned him by now.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Where in the GFA does it prohibit customs checks?
If there are customs checks those locations will have to be fortified and protected 24 hours a day. In the GFA there is a committment to no hard border, but hard border is exactly what it would be.
Can you quote the relevant section. I think I looked for it previously but couldn’t find it.
Fortified? The checks don’t necessarily have to be on the border. Companies can report on what was imported/exported. While it might be more porous, it’d be much easier to do politically.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Where in the GFA does it prohibit customs checks?
If there are customs checks those locations will have to be fortified and protected 24 hours a day. In the GFA there is a committment to no hard border, but hard border is exactly what it would be.
Can you quote the relevant section. I think I looked for it previously but couldn’t find it.
Fortified? The checks don’t necessarily have to be on the border. Companies can report on what was imported/exported. While it might be more porous, it’d be much easier to do politically.
I’ll leave you to google that.
Hah, okay. As I said, I had looked through the actual text, but couldn’t see provision excluding customs checks.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Where in the GFA does it prohibit customs checks?
If there are customs checks those locations will have to be fortified and protected 24 hours a day. In the GFA there is a committment to no hard border, but hard border is exactly what it would be.
Can you quote the relevant section. I think I looked for it previously but couldn’t find it.
Fortified? The checks don’t necessarily have to be on the border. Companies can report on what was imported/exported. While it might be more porous, it’d be much easier to do politically.
As to your second point yes I agree. But all local parties fear an increase in smuggling and criminal activity and I presume they would know.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
... and we all know how successful large government technology projects have been.
People who scream about how technology will fix a certain problem tend to be either not understand technology, or work for companies that want to make and sell the technology. Sadly, all too often the latter are snake-oil salesmen.
Witness all the current hysteria over how driverless cars will make all truck drivers redundant in ten years (c) SeanT. Here's a hint: no, they won't.
Therefore, if someone offers a technological solution to a problem, make sure that it exists and has been proven. If it does not exist, be very, very wary: it *may* work, but probably won't. And if it does, expect to pay much more than they initially promise.
Ask blacksmiths or typists about the “myth” of technological progress. And driverless trucks are already a thing. In 10 years the technology will be commonplace in commercial use. Consumer use and acceptance will probably take longer.
Visa card problems hit UK customers and businesses. I’m stuck at the tyre garage can’t pay by card and all the local shops and supermarket machines have gone down. It’s bloody chaos."
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Where in the GFA does it prohibit customs checks?
If there are customs checks those locations will have to be fortified and protected 24 hours a day. In the GFA there is a committment to no hard border, but hard border is exactly what it would be.
Can you quote the relevant section. I think I looked for it previously but couldn’t find it.
Fortified? The checks don’t necessarily have to be on the border. Companies can report on what was imported/exported. While it might be more porous, it’d be much easier to do politically.
As to your second point yes I agree. But all local parties fear an increase in smuggling and criminal activity and I presume they would know.
A small price to pay for harmonious relations with the EU
I did skim the text again, but couldn’t see any mention of the prohibition of customs activities.
... and we all know how successful large government technology projects have been.
People who scream about how technology will fix a certain problem tend to be either not understand technology, or work for companies that want to make and sell the technology. Sadly, all too often the latter are snake-oil salesmen.
Witness all the current hysteria over how driverless cars will make all truck drivers redundant in ten years (c) SeanT. Here's a hint: no, they won't....
Maybe not all, but there's a reasonable likelihood of quite a large number.
(edit) Regarding technological solutions to intractable problems, useful to bear this in mind... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gall_(author)#Gall's_law A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over with a working simple system...
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
Visa card problems hit UK customers and businesses. I’m stuck at the tyre garage can’t pay by card and all the local shops and supermarket machines have gone down. It’s bloody chaos."
And that is why the banks had to be rescued last time. On this, if it is small outfits they might have been caught out by deprecation of old TLS versions but if it is the whole of Visa we can probably rule that out.
... and we all know how successful large government technology projects have been.
People who scream about how technology will fix a certain problem tend to be either not understand technology, or work for companies that want to make and sell the technology. Sadly, all too often the latter are snake-oil salesmen.
Witness all the current hysteria over how driverless cars will make all truck drivers redundant in ten years (c) SeanT. Here's a hint: no, they won't.
Therefore, if someone offers a technological solution to a problem, make sure that it exists and has been proven. If it does not exist, be very, very wary: it *may* work, but probably won't. And if it does, expect to pay much more than they initially promise.
Ask blacksmiths or typists about the “myth” of technological progress. And driverless trucks are already a thing. In 10 years the technology will be commonplace in commercial use. Consumer use and acceptance will probably take longer.
I'm not saying that technological progress is a 'myth'; just that progress can be much harder than many people think.
"And driverless trucks are already a thing."
Care to give examples of reliable driverless trucks that are actually useful in the real world (i.e. get rid of drivers for an entire journey?)
They'll face the same trouble Tesla, Waymo etc will, except worse. And ones that go in convoy along the motorway, yet require safety drivers or drivers for the last miles to and from the motorway, are not usefully driverless.
I just saw that Platosays has been suspended from Twitter.
Her journey from centre-right to further-right to alt-right to mentalist-right was fun to watch. What did she do?
How does anyone get banned from twitter? They let Donald Trump on FFS.
Twitter have been slowly taken over by the illiberal ‘liberals’, and banning thousands of accounts of people with right wing views. If Trump wasn’t President they’d have probably banned him by now.
Twitter certainly has plenty of nutty alt.righters too.
Probably the biggest issue is the bot sock puppets, because it does have great potential as a news feed. Not sure how it is financially sorted though.
Are there any Leavers here with a workable plan, which both the EU and they might accept, which doesn't involve the WTO... ?
Leave, see what happens, and then make some rules to stop the bits of what's happening you don't like? It can be full EU rules rather than WTO to start with. NI would undoubtedly find itself in a little bit of a compromise situation if things were just left to play out, but the best-of-both-worlds is a compromise, and I doubt they'd object to that.
Letting David Davis come up with a grand plan isn't the sort of thing that should pass the board of censors (if they still exist).
I just saw that Platosays has been suspended from Twitter.
Her journey from centre-right to further-right to alt-right to mentalist-right was fun to watch. What did she do?
How does anyone get banned from twitter? They let Donald Trump on FFS.
Twitter have been slowly taken over by the illiberal ‘liberals’, and banning thousands of accounts of people with right wing views. If Trump wasn’t President they’d have probably banned him by now.
Twitter certainly has plenty of nutty alt.righters too.
Probably the biggest issue is the bot sock puppets, because it does have great potential as a news feed. Not sure how it is financially sorted though.
Their business model seemed to be to get to an IPO before anyone realised they didn’t have a way to make much money!
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
It should not really as Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA even if we leave the single market and end free movement, the issue though is the Irish question needs to be settled before FTA talks can begin with the pivotal question how the 'regulatory alignment' May and Barnier agreed in December can be implemented in a way which appeases both the DUP and the EU
One wonders why some of the money spent on driverless elec cars isn't spent on trams. Like this proposal for a historic small city that already has too many cars, electric or otherwise www.bathtrams.uk.
If only David Davis had been able to talk beforehand to the DUP members who are supporting the minority government.
No surrender to the DUP?
A bunch of deranged bigoted orangemen are running the country.
Brexit is a joke. A very bad, unfunny joke.
If Home Rule has gone ahead I have no doubt that all Ireland would still be part of the U.K. It’s certainly something to ponder in these unsettled times.
Indeed, but if the outbreak of WW1 hadn't intervened, there was a real risk of the Home Rule Crisis devolving to civil war.
One wonders why some of the money spent on driverless elec cars isn't spent on trams. Like this proposal for a historic small city that already has too many cars, electric or otherwise www.bathtrams.uk.
Because sadly, as Edinburgh and elsewhere show, trams are a very expensive infrastructure project. They're also not as *sexy* as driverless cars, and sexiness drives investment to a certain extent.
If you develop truly driverless cars that can go anywhere (and we're far, far away from that atm), then it's a solution for everywhere. The benefits of trams are very localised. There's also a massive potential market in driverless cars and the related data, and potentially massive profits.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
It should not really as Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA even if we leave the single market and end free movement, the issue though is the Irish question needs to be settled before FTA talks can begin with the pivotal question how the 'regulatory alignment' May and Barnier agreed in December can be implemented in a way which appeases both the DUP and the EU
As @RoyalBlue says - you are being salami-sliced (or slowly boiled).
In June, a "customs partnership" for goods (which will be a customs union) plus all necessary regulatory alignment for the UK will be agreed until such unspecified time a better solution is negotiated. In other words CU plus SM for the foreseeable future.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
It should not really as Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA even if we leave the single market and end free movement, the issue though is the Irish question needs to be settled before FTA talks can begin with the pivotal question how the 'regulatory alignment' May and Barnier agreed in December can be implemented in a way which appeases both the DUP and the EU
As @RoyalBlue says - you are being salami-sliced (or slowly boiled).
In June, a "customs partnership" for goods (which will be a customs union) plus all necessary regulatory alignment for the UK will be agreed until such unspecified time a better solution is negotiated. In other words CU plus SM for the foreseeable future.
As HYUFD is fond of pointing out, what really matters is whether it includes FOM. Politically it seems impossible that they'd agree to anything that does, unless they think they can fudge and rebrand it sufficiently.
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
It should not really as Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA even if we leave the single market and end free movement, the issue though is the Irish question needs to be settled before FTA talks can begin with the pivotal question how the 'regulatory alignment' May and Barnier agreed in December can be implemented in a way which appeases both the DUP and the EU
As @RoyalBlue says - you are being salami-sliced (or slowly boiled).
In June, a "customs partnership" for goods (which will be a customs union) plus all necessary regulatory alignment for the UK will be agreed until such unspecified time a better solution is negotiated. In other words CU plus SM for the foreseeable future.
Plus a token concession on FOM. There will be restrictions on EU migration which in practice almost anyone will be able to meet.
Thirty Trains with only one driver is called Northern Rail
2200 cancelled trains in a fortnight due to lack of drivers
AIUI, in Northern's case lack of drivers is not a root cause of the problems, but a consequence of other failures.
In Northern's case it's almost all the fault of nationalised Network Rail and the mandarins at the DfT. Over-running works by the nationalised Network Rail means that Northern have been unable to train enough drivers for the timetable service that the DfT promised. Northern are not blameless, but AIUI they're more sinned against than sinning.
And the people who have failed are exactly the people you want running the entire railway ...
(The situation on GTR is similar, although GTR do share more of the blame than Northern do for their respective woes.)
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
It should not really as Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA even if we leave the single market and end free movement, the issue though is the Irish question needs to be settled before FTA talks can begin with the pivotal question how the 'regulatory alignment' May and Barnier agreed in December can be implemented in a way which appeases both the DUP and the EU
As @RoyalBlue says - you are being salami-sliced (or slowly boiled).
In June, a "customs partnership" for goods (which will be a customs union) plus all necessary regulatory alignment for the UK will be agreed until such unspecified time a better solution is negotiated. In other words CU plus SM for the foreseeable future.
As HYUFD is fond of pointing out, what really matters is whether it includes FOM. Politically it seems impossible that they'd agree to anything that does, unless they think they can fudge and rebrand it sufficiently.
I think they will fudge and rebrand it sufficiently. For most Leavers I think it is mainly the symbolism, and that they were listened to. For Remainers it is minimisng the economic and political damage.
If there were a referendum on CU/SM (+ fudge FOM) for the foreseeable future outside the EU versus remaining in the EU, which do you think would win?
Thirty Trains with only one driver is called Northern Rail
2200 cancelled trains in a fortnight due to lack of drivers
AIUI, in Northern's case lack of drivers is not a root cause of the problems, but a consequence of other failures.
In Northern's case it's almost all the fault of nationalised Network Rail and the mandarins at the DfT. Over-running works by the nationalised Network Rail means that Northern have been unable to train enough drivers for the timetable service that the DfT promised. Northern are not blameless, but AIUI they're more sinned against than sinning.
And the people who have failed are exactly the people you want running the entire railway ...
(The situation on GTR is similar, although GTR do share more of the blame than Northern do for their respective woes.)
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
Please read eureferendum.com, Ivan Roger’s speech, or a host of other sources. They explain how it’s the Single Market and regulatory uniformity, rather than a customs union, which eliminates the need for substantive border checks.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
It should not really as Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA even if we leave the single market and end free movement, the issue though is the Irish question needs to be settled before FTA talks can begin with the pivotal question how the 'regulatory alignment' May and Barnier agreed in December can be implemented in a way which appeases both the DUP and the EU
As @RoyalBlue says - you are being salami-sliced (or slowly boiled).
In June, a "customs partnership" for goods (which will be a customs union) plus all necessary regulatory alignment for the UK will be agreed until such unspecified time a better solution is negotiated. In other words CU plus SM for the foreseeable future.
'Fudged FOM' as others have mentioned respecting the fact the UK are owed the transition controls Blair should have taken in 2004 may be the way forward
Any way you look at it, the only solution to the NI situation is for the UK to remain in the Customs Union (whatever implications that means for association with the Single Market).
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
There is no way most Tories would accept EEA as it requires FOM and even Corbyn accepts we have to leave the single market otherwise his working class Leave voters will go berserk if free movement stays in place even though he has effectively conceded the customs union
Well that means NO DEAL. But that is not viable either as we have made zero preparation for it .. like a five fold increase in customs declarations!
It should not really as Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA even if we leave the single market and end free movement, the issue though is the Irish question needs to be settled before FTA talks can begin with the pivotal question how the 'regulatory alignment' May and Barnier agreed in December can be implemented in a way which appeases both the DUP and the EU
As @RoyalBlue says - you are being salami-sliced (or slowly boiled).
In June, a "customs partnership" for goods (which will be a customs union) plus all necessary regulatory alignment for the UK will be agreed until such unspecified time a better solution is negotiated. In other words CU plus SM for the foreseeable future.
'Fudged FOM' as others have mentioned respecting the fact the UK are owed the transition controls Blair should have taken in 2004 may be the way forward
I think we are converging on a solution. Who's going to tell Theresa? You are probably better placed to do that.
Thirty Trains with only one driver is called Northern Rail
2200 cancelled trains in a fortnight due to lack of drivers
AIUI, in Northern's case lack of drivers is not a root cause of the problems, but a consequence of other failures.
In Northern's case it's almost all the fault of nationalised Network Rail and the mandarins at the DfT. Over-running works by the nationalised Network Rail means that Northern have been unable to train enough drivers for the timetable service that the DfT promised. Northern are not blameless, but AIUI they're more sinned against than sinning.
And the people who have failed are exactly the people you want running the entire railway ...
(The situation on GTR is similar, although GTR do share more of the blame than Northern do for their respective woes.)
Network Rail compared to Railtrack
Discuss
You're changing the subject because you're realised you've made a mistake.
Railtrack ****ed up. They might not have fu**** up if they'd had the same governmental largesse that NR had (although AIUI they made a couple of horrendous strategic decisions).
But that's irrelevant to the point you wrongly made: the current problems are, to a large extent, down to the same people you want to have *more* control over the railways.
There is a case for renationalisation. But I despair at the prospect as long as the proponents are so brain-dead in their rationalisation for the change.
'Fudged FOM' as others have mentioned respecting the fact the UK are owed the transition controls Blair should have taken in 2004 may be the way forward
A transition period is over when it's over. You can't take advantage of waiving controls in your own interest and then resurrect some imagined 'right' at a later date when it suits you.
Thirty Trains with only one driver is called Northern Rail
2200 cancelled trains in a fortnight due to lack of drivers
AIUI, in Northern's case lack of drivers is not a root cause of the problems, but a consequence of other failures.
In Northern's case it's almost all the fault of nationalised Network Rail and the mandarins at the DfT. Over-running works by the nationalised Network Rail means that Northern have been unable to train enough drivers for the timetable service that the DfT promised. Northern are not blameless, but AIUI they're more sinned against than sinning.
And the people who have failed are exactly the people you want running the entire railway ...
(The situation on GTR is similar, although GTR do share more of the blame than Northern do for their respective woes.)
BTW Northern Rail is owned by Deutsche Bahn which is the German railway company. Headquartered in Berlin, it is a private joint-stock company, with the Federal Republic of Germany being its single shareholder.
Comments
Her journey from centre-right to further-right to alt-right to mentalist-right was fun to watch. What did she do?
You have all these pompous nationalists who've said how wonderful Brexit would be, how Britain would ride high in the world, and how they would get a great deal, and it was all about getting a narrow loss in the referendum so they could look like heroic runners-up who pushed the establishment all the way.
But instead they won, they had to own and implement everything, and all the nonsense it was built on got exposed. £350m per week for the NHS? Current Treasury estimate is a £122bn cost. Easy dealings as we hold all the cards? Ermmm.... New trade deals to be signed within 2 years? Liam Fox can't give any assurances about keeping the ones we have. Irish border will be seamless? 2 years after referendum plans for this don't last a day. Global influence? We're being locked out of Galileo and EU still getting deals ahead of us. Blue passports? OK, yeah we got blue passports. Let's hold onto the passports.
If we weren't affected personally, it would be really really funny. And some days when I decide I have other things to worry about. it is.
I also believe that allowing terrorism or the threat of such murderous acts to determine policy is horrendous in both moral and practical terms. Don't you?
So 500,000 'German' cars are imported to the USA from Germany, Mexico or elsewhere.
That might have been her crime.
Below are the top 15 suppliers from which the United States imported the highest dollar value worth of cars during 2017. Within parenthesis is the percentage change in value for each supplying country since 2013.
Canada: US$43.8 billion (up 0.1% from 2013)
Japan: $40.7 billion (up 4.9%)
Mexico: $30.6 billion (up 49.4%)
Germany: $20.8 billion (down -19.8%)
South Korea: $16.1 billion (up 29.1%)
United Kingdom: $8.8 billion (up 71%)
Italy: $5.1 billion (up 221.1%)
Sweden: $2.2 billion (up 203.3%)
Slovakia: $2 billion (up 123.3%)
China: $1.8 billion (up 1,759%)
Hungary: $1.2 billion (up 202.7%)
Finland: $1.2 billion (up 11,883%)
South Africa: $1.1 billion (down -50.4%)
Turkey: $911.8 million (up 666.5%)
Spain: $816.9 million (up 4,572%)
The listed 15 countries shipped 98.6% of all American cars imports in 2017.
I thought I knew the automotive space pretty well. But I have literally no idea who manufactures cars in Finland.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1002539852171304960?s=21
Inept or very inept ?
If you want to point fingers: Audi and Porsche have minimal US production capability, and while BMW and VW have more, they both have a much lower percentage than Mercedes.
Edit to add: of course, Audi, Porsche and VW are sister companies.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
LOL
We know this because the Brexiteers told us it was so.
https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1002569869999722497?s=21
As Wilson rightly points out, what would be the point of a buffer zone if there were no checks to get into or pass through it?
drugs, illegal cigarettes, alcohol, theres a smuggling business in action and police both sides of the border are currently trying to stamp it out.
There simply is no other solution which on the one hand wouldn't create some kind of border infrastructure around the Six Counties (unacceptable to the South not to say the GFA) or on the other, wouldn't align them with the EU (unacceptable to the DUP, the Cons, and many more besides).
Perhaps there should be a national competition to seek out other options.
No-one else is making cars in Finland as far as I can see, so
Someone set up a massive new car shipping company in Helsinki??
Legal businesses will fall in to line because that's what honest people do. Smugglers etc are currently at work irresepective of the infrastructure and since a lot of the smugglers have paramilitary links the police try to stop them so they cant raise funds.
Business owners are complaining they are unable to process Visa payments if they use Paymentsense to facilitate transactions."
https://news.sky.com/story/visa-card-problems-hit-uk-customers-and-businesses-11392087
In the current situations it's the Republic which has the bigger problem and needs the border posts
beer, fags, booze and petrol are all cheaper up North. My daughter who lives in Cork always fills the car to bursting when she goes to see my brother in NI
I sincerely hope I am being pessimistic I just can't see how it will all work.
Prosecco Tesco Cork - 15 Euro
Prosecco Tesco Lisburn - £7
wages, tax, currency , laws all differ today and we get on just fine.
The EEC had a customs union without a Single Market from 1957 to 1992. ‘Customs’ controls were very much in evidence, but they were required more for conformity assessment and checking sanitary and phytosanitary compliance rather than collecting tariffs, which were zero on agricultural and manufactured goods since the late 60s.
We are being salami-sliced. Once we concede the customs union, the EU will move onto continued EEA membership.
Norway plus.
Fortified? The checks don’t necessarily have to be on the border. Companies can report on what was imported/exported. While it might be more porous, it’d be much easier to do politically.
Which is why the British should call their bluff, as someone put it earlier in the thread, “EU build a fence if you want to, but we’re not building one.”
Consumer use and acceptance will probably take longer.
It used to be the National anthem of Prussia but different lyrics - Heil Dir im Siegerkranz
used to confuse the Tommies in WW1
@ChrisCriddle
Visa card problems hit UK customers and businesses. I’m stuck at the tyre garage can’t pay by card and all the local shops and supermarket machines have gone down. It’s bloody chaos."
twitter.com/ChrisCriddle/status/1002590459301068800
I did skim the text again, but couldn’t see any mention of the prohibition of customs activities.
(edit) Regarding technological solutions to intractable problems, useful to bear this in mind...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gall_(author)#Gall's_law
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over with a working simple system...
"And driverless trucks are already a thing."
Care to give examples of reliable driverless trucks that are actually useful in the real world (i.e. get rid of drivers for an entire journey?)
They'll face the same trouble Tesla, Waymo etc will, except worse. And ones that go in convoy along the motorway, yet require safety drivers or drivers for the last miles to and from the motorway, are not usefully driverless.
Probably the biggest issue is the bot sock puppets, because it does have great potential as a news feed. Not sure how it is financially sorted though.
Letting David Davis come up with a grand plan isn't the sort of thing that should pass the board of censors (if they still exist).
It's called a train.
The last year or so they’ve started to turn a profit by putting more ads into feeds, but not enough to justify the $26bn market cap.
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/twtr/financials
www.bathtrams.uk.
2200 cancelled trains in a fortnight due to lack of drivers
If you develop truly driverless cars that can go anywhere (and we're far, far away from that atm), then it's a solution for everywhere. The benefits of trams are very localised. There's also a massive potential market in driverless cars and the related data, and potentially massive profits.
In June, a "customs partnership" for goods (which will be a customs union) plus all necessary regulatory alignment for the UK will be agreed until such unspecified time a better solution is negotiated. In other words CU plus SM for the foreseeable future.
In Northern's case it's almost all the fault of nationalised Network Rail and the mandarins at the DfT. Over-running works by the nationalised Network Rail means that Northern have been unable to train enough drivers for the timetable service that the DfT promised. Northern are not blameless, but AIUI they're more sinned against than sinning.
And the people who have failed are exactly the people you want running the entire railway ...
(The situation on GTR is similar, although GTR do share more of the blame than Northern do for their respective woes.)
If there were a referendum on CU/SM (+ fudge FOM) for the foreseeable future outside the EU versus remaining in the EU, which do you think would win?
Discuss
Railtrack ****ed up. They might not have fu**** up if they'd had the same governmental largesse that NR had (although AIUI they made a couple of horrendous strategic decisions).
But that's irrelevant to the point you wrongly made: the current problems are, to a large extent, down to the same people you want to have *more* control over the railways.
There is a case for renationalisation. But I despair at the prospect as long as the proponents are so brain-dead in their rationalisation for the change.
Plato is here : https://gab.ai/PlatoSays