I'd like to ask SeanT whether he's travelled on the direct plane from Perth to London, and if so what it was like.
I haven't. But I have a friend who did (a journalist) and he says it was "OK" and "tolerable". However, he was progressively moved from Economy to Biz to First, so his experience is unique.
20+ continuous hours in Economy seems unspeakable to me
It took me nearly a week to recover from my recent trip to Australia, and that was in Business Class. Sure, I am now a grizzled old hack, and a fresh-faced 19 year old would bounce back, but, Jesus. I have resolved not to do Australia again, for a year at least. It's just TOO FAR.
On the upside, on of the most fascinating things about this Brexit shitfest is that none of us has a clue where we are going to end up.
It could be anywhere from complete breakdown we're-not-even-talking-to-EU hard-Brexit at one extreme to indefinite transition / BINO at the other. Strange times.
Juncker said Italians should simply "work harder, and be less corrupt" and then retracted this and deleted the video and denied he'd ever said it, even though we all know he did.
If I were Italian hearing those remarks, I would feel as though I had just been lectured by Nicholas Maduro on the importance of running a sound monetary policy.
Some of the insane, Fuck Italy discourse coming from Brussels is so off-the-dial it's got me gedden away, when their advisors look at social media)
Genuinely don't know which is the correct answer.
Either way, f*ck ‘em.
This sort of thing makes me want to vote for Brexit ten times all over again.
You want another 10 referendums?!
10 more, 10 more wins for leave. Maybe you remainers will finally accept the result!
I accept the result, always have. Just don't expect me to be happy or quiet about the almighty fuck-up that is resulting from that result.
I feel and share your pain. I have had grave doubts about Brexit in recent days....
And this could all have been so easily avoided. If we had been given our democratic rights, earlier!
Didn't happen. We were failed by an entire generation of effete europhile wankers.
And now we must deal with what we have. And we must respect the largest vote in British democratic history. And we must Leave.
I've examined my conscience (and my damaged finances) and concluded that, despite all the pain and wankiness, if we had another referendum on the same terms, I would very very reluctantly vote the same way once again: OUT.
Hennig Wehn got it spot on on HIGNFY this evening... if we had another in/out referendum the result would probably be the same, because people don't like to admit they were wrong (either way).
But we have been shamefully misled by the Leave campaigners (e.g. see the Davis quote in the thread header) and then woefully let down by the Government who, it appears, couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag.
Though there are a fair few who might have changed their minds quietly, and others who "can't be doing with that".
Not much has changed in the polls, MOE at most, so not much point in another referendum while the turd is still airborne, and when fan impact happens it will be too late.
Just batten down the hatches for a stormy ride, doubly so when the coastal towns and old coalfields find that they have been sold a pack of lies.
This is one of the very best reasons for Brexit. Our leaders will no longer be able to hide behind Brussels, and use it as an excuse for enacting law we dislike.
The GDPR is a classic example. Quite a major change in how we live. Was this in any UK party's manifesto? Did we ask for this, or argue against it, did we even have a debate? No. Yet suddenly it emerges from the Brussels mist, and we are obliged to enforce it. It may well be a good thing, but I'd quite like a national discussion before we put it in the statute book.
Multiply this by a hundred, and you have the essential problem with the EU. And it will only get worse, judging by the EU's Federalist ambitions revealed by the Italian election.
It is indeed a classic example, but not quite in the way you think. Britain was one of the architects of the GDPR (our governments worry about these things more than most) and if it wasn't being introduced at EU level it would be introduced at UK level. Nor do I think the Government would consult us any more than they did on the GDPR (which, to be fair, was subject to pretty extensive consultation with the industry - I doubt if the average voter would have wanted to be consulted). The case for doing it at European level is that it makes it harder for companies to move to the least restrictive jurisdiction and operate from there.
as an example of the numerous consultations - I suspect you just weren't aware of them, and our media couldn't be bothered to report on them.
I'm not a fan - I think it's way OTT. But there's no denying that it has British fingerprints all over it, and it's an example of how British governments do stuff at one remove and then let the EU get blamed.
I'd like to ask SeanT whether he's travelled on the direct plane from Perth to London, and if so what it was like.
I haven't. But I have a friend who did (a journalist) and he says it was "OK" and "tolerable". However, he was progressively moved from Economy to Biz to First, so his experience is unique.
20+ continuous hours in Economy seems unspeakable to me
It took me nearly a week to recover from my recent trip to Australia, and that was in Business Class. Sure, I am now a grizzled old hack, and a fresh-faced 19 year old would bounce back, but, Jesus. I have resolved not to do Australia again, for a year at least. It's just TOO FAR.
I'd like to ask SeanT whether he's travelled on the direct plane from Perth to London, and if so what it was like.
I haven't. But I have a friend who did (a journalist) and he says it was "OK" and "tolerable". However, he was progressively moved from Economy to Biz to First, so his experience is unique.
20+ continuous hours in Economy seems unspeakable to me
It took me nearly a week to recover from my recent trip to Australia, and that was in Business Class. Sure, I am now a grizzled old hack, and a fresh-faced 19 year old would bounce back, but, Jesus. I have resolved not to do Australia again, for a year at least. It's just TOO FAR.
Wow - a whole 18 Labour MPs call for a second referendum - all of them from London.
It must be really brave representing a London seat and backing calls for a second referendum - sorry second 'people's vote' cos they didn't like the result of the first 'people's vote'.
I'd like a second referendum. But I'm bored with the Guardian and Indie talking up every MP who calls for one, while giving almost no space to the contrary view.
Agree completely: both the UK and the EU have damaged themselves in the Brexit process.
They have seen Brexit as a one-off transaction, and have determined to nickle and dime us. Their failure to realise that our long-term strategic interests align, and that we should be close allies will cost them dear.
Our error was to fail to realise that the EU felt like a dumped girlfriend. Publicly gloating that our exit would cause "the whole house of cards to collapse" was unlikely to put the EU in a frame of mind to smooth our exit.
We have, belatedly, realised our errors. I do not believe the EU has (yet) realised theirs.
I don’t see any evidence that Leavers have learned this lesson. Only this week all the usual suspects were pronouncing the imminent demise of the EU over Italy.
Well, I was beginning to doubt my Brexit vote (not for the first time) until Italy came along, and a Germans eurocrat warned the Italians the markets would teach them what was the "right" way to vote, a German MEP said the Troika would "march on Rome" if Italy tried anything remotely eurosceptic, and Juncker said Italians should simply "work harder, and be less corrupt" and then retracted this and deleted the video and denied he'd ever said it, even though we all know he did.
At that point the hard Brexit steel re-entered my soul. Clearly you have no soul if you don't find this euro-reich shit slightly chilling.
It saddens me deeply, but we must Leave. It will cost us, but maybe our sacrifice will help Europe in the end.
I offer you this quote from William Pitt the Younger: “England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example.”
The problem with the EU/Euro is that it gives the Italians and the Greeks someone to blame for problems that are largely of their own making. I often wonder who our politicians are going to blame for things when they can no longer hide behind the EU and blame everything on Brussels
No, there is and has always been a wealth gap between southern and northern Europe.
But not always in the current direction. There have been large chunks of the last three millennia when Southern Europe was rich, and Northern Europe poor.
And Switzerland was very poor for large chunks of its existence. What goes up can come down, and vice versa.
I'd like to ask SeanT whether he's travelled on the direct plane from Perth to London, and if so what it was like.
I haven't. But I have a friend who did (a journalist) and he says it was "OK" and "tolerable". However, he was progressively moved from Economy to Biz to First, so his experience is unique.
20+ continuous hours in Economy seems unspeakable to me
It took me nearly a week to recover from my recent trip to Australia, and that was in Business Class. Sure, I am now a grizzled old hack, and a fresh-faced 19 year old would bounce back, but, Jesus. I have resolved not to do Australia again, for a year at least. It's just TOO FAR.
Bring on hypersonics.
It's a 16 hour flight, isn't it?
New policy from BA: to save fuel costs they’ve extended the flying time for economy class passengers
Agree completely: both the UK and the EU have damaged themselves in the Brexit process.
They have seen Brexit as a one-off transaction, and have determined to nickle and dime us. Their failure to realise that our long-term strategic interests align, and that we should be close allies will cost them dear.
Our error was to fail to realise that the EU felt like a dumped girlfriend. Publicly gloating that our exit would cause "the whole house of cards to collapse" was unlikely to put the EU in a frame of mind to smooth our exit.
We have, belatedly, realised our errors. I do not believe the EU has (yet) realised theirs.
I don’t see any evidence that Leavers have learned this lesson. Only this week all the usual suspects were pronouncing the imminent demise of the EU over Italy.
Well, I was beginning to doubt my Brexit vote (not for the first time) until Italy came along, and a Germans eurocrat warned the Italians the markets would teach them what was the "right" way to vote, a German MEP said the Troika would "march on Rome" if Italy tried anything remotely eurosceptic, and Juncker said Italians should simply "work harder, and be less corrupt" and then retracted this and deleted the video and denied he'd ever said it, even though we all know he did.
At that point the hard Brexit steel re-entered my soul. Clearly you have no soul if you don't find this euro-reich shit slightly chilling.
It saddens me deeply, but we must Leave. It will cost us, but maybe our sacrifice will help Europe in the end.
I offer you this quote from William Pitt the Younger: “England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example.”
The problem with the EU/Euro is that it gives the Italians and the Greeks someone to blame for problems that are largely of their own making. I often wonder who our politicians are going to blame for things when they can no longer hide behind the EU and blame everything on Brussels
No, there is and has always been a wealth gap between southern and northern Europe.
But not always in the current direction. There have been large chunks of the last three millennia when Southern Europe was rich, and Northern Europe poor.
And Switzerland was very poor for large chunks of its existence. What goes up can come down, and vice versa.
SeanT - Maybe they subtly want to encourage the Italians to leave? Unlikely I know but who can say. Surely history tells us that elites are only ever receptive to public opinion when they have to be.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
Agree completely: both the UK and the EU have damaged themselves in the Brexit process.
They have seen Brexit as a one-off transaction, and have determined to nickle and dime us. Their failure to realise that our long-term strategic interests align, and that we should be close allies will cost them dear.
Our error was to fail to realise that the EU felt like a dumped girlfriend. Publicly gloating that our exit would cause "the whole house of cards to collapse" was unlikely to put the EU in a frame of mind to smooth our exit.
We have, belatedly, realised our errors. I do not believe the EU has (yet) realised theirs.
I don’t see any evidence that Leavers have learned this lesson. Only this week all the usual suspects were pronouncing the imminent demise of the EU over Italy.
Well, I was beginning to doubt my Brexit vote (not for the first time) until Italy came along, and a Germans eurocrat warned the Italians the markets would teach them what was the "right" way to vote, a German MEP said the Troika would "march on Rome" if Italy tried anything remotely eurosceptic, and Juncker said Italians should simply "work harder, and be less corrupt" and then retracted this and deleted the video and denied he'd ever said it, even though we all know he did.
At that point the hard Brexit steel re-entered my soul. Clearly you have no soul if you don't find this euro-reich shit slightly chilling.
It saddens me deeply, but we must Leave. It will cost us, but maybe our sacrifice will help Europe in the end.
I offer you this quote from William Pitt the Younger: “England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example.”
The problem with the EU/Euro is that it gives the Italians and the Greeks someone to blame for problems that are largely of their own making. I often wonder who our politicians are going to blame for things when they can no longer hide behind the EU and blame everything on Brussels
No, there is and has always been a wealth gap between southern and northern Europe.
But not always in the current direction. There have been large chunks of the last three millennia when Southern Europe was rich, and Northern Europe poor.
And Switzerland was very poor for large chunks of its existence. What goes up can come down, and vice versa.
a load of knuckle draggers on twatter think the bbc guy who retweets the front pages works for the sun and are giving him loads of disgusting abuse for some story on the back page of the sun tomorrow.
SeanT - Maybe they subtly want to encourage the Italians to leave? Unlikely I know but who can say. Surely history tells us that elites are only ever receptive to public opinion when they have to be.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
Junckers quote was a little more nuanced than in some reports:
Wow - a whole 18 Labour MPs call for a second referendum - all of them from London.
It must be really brave representing a London seat and backing calls for a second referendum - sorry second 'people's vote' cos they didn't like the result of the first 'people's vote'.
I'd like a second referendum. But I'm bored with the Guardian and Indie talking up every MP who calls for one, while giving almost no space to the contrary view.
It’s not a second referendum you want, it’s a different result to the first one you are after.
This is one of the very best reasons for Brexit. Our leaders will no longer be able to hide behind Brussels, and use it as an excuse for enacting law we dislike.
The GDPR is a classic example. Quite a major change in how we live. Was this in any UK party's manifesto? Did we ask for this, or argue against it, did we even have a debate? No. Yet suddenly it emerges from the Brussels mist, and we are obliged to enforce it. It may well be a good thing, but I'd quite like a national discussion before we put it in the statute book.
Multiply this by a hundred, and you have the essential problem with the EU. And it will only get worse, judging by the EU's Federalist ambitions revealed by the Italian election.
It is indeed a classic example, but not quite in the way you think. Britain was one of the architects of the GDPR (our governments worry about these things more than most) and if it wasn't being introduced at EU level it would be introduced at UK level. Nor do I think the Government would consult us any more than they did on the GDPR (which, to be fair, was subject to pretty extensive consultation with the industry - I doubt if the average voter would have wanted to be consulted). The case for doing it at European level is that it makes it harder for companies to move to the least restrictive jurisdiction and operate from there.
as an example of the numerous consultations - I suspect you just weren't aware of them, and our media couldn't be bothered to report on them.
I'm not a fan - I think it's way OTT. But there's no denying that it has British fingerprints all over it, and it's an example of how British governments do stuff at one remove and then let the EU get blamed.
Brings to my mind this. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical.
a load of knuckle draggers on twatter think the bbc guy who retweets the front pages works for the sun and are giving him loads of disgusting abuse for some story on the back page of the sun tomorrow.
Is there any particular reason he's getting abuse? The front and back pages don't look especially provocative.
SeanT - Maybe they subtly want to encourage the Italians to leave? Unlikely I know but who can say. Surely history tells us that elites are only ever receptive to public opinion when they have to be.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
Junckers quote was a little more nuanced than in some reports:
a load of knuckle draggers on twatter think the bbc guy who retweets the front pages works for the sun and are giving him loads of disgusting abuse for some story on the back page of the sun tomorrow.
Is there any particular reason he's getting abuse? The front and back pages don't look especially provocative.
a load of knuckle draggers on twatter think the bbc guy who retweets the front pages works for the sun and are giving him loads of disgusting abuse for some story on the back page of the sun tomorrow.
Is there any particular reason he's getting abuse? The front and back pages don't look especially provocative.
a load of knuckle draggers on twatter think the bbc guy who retweets the front pages works for the sun and are giving him loads of disgusting abuse for some story on the back page of the sun tomorrow.
Is there any particular reason he's getting abuse? The front and back pages don't look especially provocative.
SeanT - Maybe they subtly want to encourage the Italians to leave? Unlikely I know but who can say. Surely history tells us that elites are only ever receptive to public opinion when they have to be.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
Junckers quote was a little more nuanced than in some reports:
Hard to disagree with Juncker there. And I believe Oettingers remarks were taken out of context to.
Yet apparently we should now head to our bunkers and prepare for a full on kamikaze Brexit. .
What tosh.
If Juncker was an elected politician in Italy he would have the right to say shit like this, as it happens he is the well-known alcoholic, corrupted, utterly unelected EU president and ex-prime minister of tax-dodging, freeloading Luxembourg, which has grown fat from EU graft, so he is the last person to be making these judgement calls. It's like getting Tony Soprano to condemn Sicily.
The fact you don't see this or sense it, says more about you and the EU's intrinsic problems, than any insults I can hurl at this late hour. So I shan't bother.
A comment so prescient you felt we should get to read it twice.
Agree completely: both the UK and the EU have damaged themselves in the Brexit process.
They have seen Brexit as a one-off transaction, and have determined to nickle and dime us. Their failure to realise that our long-term strategic interests align, and that we should be close allies will cost them dear.
Our error was to fail to realise that the EU felt like a dumped girlfriend. Publicly gloating that our exit would cause "the whole house of cards to collapse" was unlikely to put the EU in a frame of mind to smooth our exit.
We have, belatedly, realised our errors. I do not believe the EU has (yet) realised theirs.
I don’t see any evidence that Leavers have learned this lesson. Only this week all the usual suspects were pronouncing the imminent demise of the EU over Italy.
Well, I was beginning to doubt my Brexit vote (not for the first time) until Italy came along, and a Germans
The problem with the EU/Euro is that it gives the Italians and the Greeks someone to blame for problems that are largely of their own making. I often wonder who our politicians are going to blame for things when they can no longer hide behind the EU and blame everything on Brussels
No, there is and has always been a wealth gap between southern and northern Europe.
But not always in the current direction. There have been large chunks of the last three millennia when Southern Europe was rich, and Northern Europe poor.
And Switzerland was very poor for large chunks of its existence. What goes up can come down, and vice versa.
And Britain was very poor until we pillaged India
You jest, Sir. Historically, from about the 9th century on, England (if not Britain) was consistently one of the richest parts of Europe. Fertile, green, well watered, and easily defended, and populated by relatively high IQ Celts and Teutons.
It is a service where anybody who is anybody uploads code and Microsoft have a reputation for buying perfectly good services and ruining them eg Skype.
a load of knuckle draggers on twatter think the bbc guy who retweets the front pages works for the sun and are giving him loads of disgusting abuse for some story on the back page of the sun tomorrow.
Is there any particular reason he's getting abuse? The front and back pages don't look especially provocative.
If we'd had the referendum that you (and, to be fair, the Tories) so earnestly promised, then we would have voted this Treaty down and Brexit would never have happened, nor would it have been necessary.
I don't think that works. Assuming the constitution had been voted down, the day after the refereundum the anti-EU side would be saying that every time the British had a chance to vote they'd voted against the EU, and it was time for a vote on the actual thing. There was exactly nothing in the in/out referendum that turned on things that were intriduced by Lisbon, so it would have made no difference to an in/oit referendum either.
I suppose you could just about argue that Cameron wouldn't have turned himself into the particular pretzel that came out of "we will not let matters rest", but the root cause of the position he took on that was that a chunk of his party dislike the EU a lot, so they'd most likely just have pushed him into committing to a referendum.
a load of knuckle draggers on twatter think the bbc guy who retweets the front pages works for the sun and are giving him loads of disgusting abuse for some story on the back page of the sun tomorrow.
Is there any particular reason he's getting abuse? The front and back pages don't look especially provocative.
SeanT - Maybe they subtly want to encourage the Italians to leave? Unlikely I know but who can say. Surely history tells us that elites are only ever receptive to public opinion when they have to be.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
Junckers quote was a little more nuanced than in some reports:
Hard to disagree with Juncker there. And I believe Oettingers remarks were taken out of context to.
Yet apparently we should now head to our bunkers and prepare for a full on kamikaze Brexit. .
What tosh.
You make an excellent point.
I've changed my mind : Remain is the right option.
*applauds*
If you want a good laugh, post a question on Facebook,ideally something that only requires a yes/no answer.
Later, when your friends have commented, edit the question to something like "Have you ever posted naked pictures of your wife /girlfriend on the Internet without her permission?"
You can then take a screenshot and blackmail your friends.
SeanT - Maybe they subtly want to encourage the Italians to leave? Unlikely I know but who can say. Surely history tells us that elites are only ever receptive to public opinion when they have to be.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
Junckers quote was a little more nuanced than in some reports:
Hard to disagree with Juncker there. And I believe Oettingers remarks were taken out of context to.
Yet apparently we should now head to our bunkers and prepare for a full on kamikaze Brexit. .
What tosh.
You make an excellent point.
I've changed my mind : Remain is the right option.
*applauds*
If you want a good laugh, post a question on Facebook,ideally something that only requires a yes/no answer.
Later, when your friends have commented, edit the question to something like "Have you ever posted naked pictures of your wife /girlfriend on the Internet without her permission?"
You can then take a screenshot and blackmail your friends.
Is that the general theme of lunch with the FT tomorrow? Who is it by the way, I can't find it on the website.
SeanT - Maybe they subtly want to encourage the Italians to leave? Unlikely I know but who can say. Surely history tells us that elites are only ever receptive to public opinion when they have to be.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
Junckers quote was a little more nuanced than in some reports:
Hard to disagree with Juncker there. And I believe Oettingers remarks were taken out of context to.
Yet apparently we should now head to our bunkers and prepare for a full on kamikaze Brexit. .
What tosh.
You make an excellent point.
I've changed my mind : Remain is the right option.
*applauds*
If you want a good laugh, post a question on Facebook,ideally something that only requires a yes/no answer.
Later, when your friends have commented, edit the question to something like "Have you ever posted naked pictures of your wife /girlfriend on the Internet without her permission?"
You can then take a screenshot and blackmail your friends.
Is that the general theme of lunch with the FT tomorrow? Who is it by the way, I can't find it on the website.
A bit like his female namesake, Jordan is becoming a bit over exposed.
On football/newspapers, with things kicking off in Russia in a few weeks are the lawyers ready with their super injunctions yet. I imagine the Sundays will be doing their bit to assist with England's chances. Could do with a market on who'll be first out of the blocks.
If we'd had the referendum that you (and, to be fair, the Tories) so earnestly promised, then we would have voted this Treaty down and Brexit would never have happened, nor would it have been necessary.
I don't think that works. Assuming the constitution had been voted down, the day after the refereundum the anti-EU side would be saying that every time the British had a chance to vote they'd voted against the EU, and it was time for a vote on the actual thing. There was exactly nothing in the in/out referendum that turned on things that were intriduced by Lisbon, so it would have made no difference to an in/oit referendum either.
I suppose you could just about argue that Cameron wouldn't have turned himself into the particular pretzel that came out of "we will not let matters rest", but the root cause of the position he took on that was that a chunk of his party dislike the EU a lot, so they'd most likely just have pushed him into committing to a referendum.
Nah, that's bollocks. With the British people voting down the Constitution the EU (like all bullies) would have finally and beneficially met an opponent it could not overrule: as we see with Brexit, the British people will not be menaced into political surrender (unlike the French, Irish, Dutch etc).
The Lisbon Rewrite would have not been an option. We would have voted that down, too.
The EU would have been stuck for 10-20 years in post Maastricht limbo, unable to integrate further, and this would undoubtedly have been better for everyone (no Brexit, etc).
Sadly, thanks to the likes of NPXMP, the Lisbon Treaty, with its vile A50, passed into law. And so, here we are.
They'd still have carried on with integration, they'd just hve done it around the Eurozone and by forming other technically-not-the-EU bodies like they originally did with Schengen.
It would have made zero difference to immigration, or anything else that motivated meaningful numbers of Leave voters.
If we'd had the referendum that you (and, to be fair, the Tories) so earnestly promised, then we would have voted this Treaty down and Brexit would never have happened, nor would it have been necessary.
I don't think that works. Assuming the constitution had been voted down, the day after the refereundum the at a chunk of his party dislike the EU a lot, so they'd most likely just have pushed him into committing to a referendum.
Nah, that's bolloc.
Sadly, thanks to the likes of NPXMP, the Lisbon Treaty, with its vile A50, passed into law. And so, here we are.
They'd still have carried on with integration, they'd just hve done it around the Eurozone and by forming other technically-not-the-EU bodies like they originally did with Schengen.
It would have made zero difference to immigration, or anything else that motivated meaningful numbers of Leave voters.
Yawn. Whatever.
If I recall correctly, you and I have been arguing fairly pointlessly about the EU for a decade. You would always quite adeptly deflate my most eurosceptic rants. Fair play.
However, looking back, I was right, wasn't I? Or at least a harbinger you should have noted. Euroscepticism, like mine, was a dangerously simmering pot. A boil that needed lancing.
People like you loftily ignored it, with sneering put-downs or just lazy contempt.
And so, here we are.
I don't think anyone's ever articulated a workable boil-lancing strategy. Cameron tried pretending to agree with the populists, and trying to hold things up procedurally or getting little concessions, It doesn't help. The populists just take the concession then move on to the next one.
The skeptics also never had a workable plan for the alternative they wanted short of exit, and it's not really clear that anyone has a workable plan for that either.
I fail to see how a driverless truck (much safer, much cheaper) on the long boring freeways of the USA, cannot defeat a drivered truck, when it comes to basic profit and loss.
Driverless cars in towns will take longer. Maybe a lot longer. But we should all be in no doubt, the era of the human-driven petrol-fuelled car is coming to an end. We are about to see what it was like to live 1895-1920, when horses gave way to internal combustion.
Waymo are doing it the correct way; Tesla and Uber the incorrect way. However their service is going to be heavily geofenced, and will *not* be AI. It is going to be interesting to see how well they do with the expansion.
However, it should be noted that there are significant problems Waymo have not yet solved (at least as far as I am aware, and they would be trumpeting them if they had), and they have picked 'easy' places to start tests, such as Phoenix.
"But we should all be in no doubt"
Yes, we should. You are absolutely clueless on this, and are just swallowing the PR from a bunch of companies who are hoping to make billions.
As for trucks: you only save lots of money with driverless if you have driverless point-to-point. They're nowhere near that, and the consequences of a truck crash can be much greater than one with cars.
Comments
It could be anywhere from complete breakdown we're-not-even-talking-to-EU hard-Brexit at one extreme to indefinite transition / BINO at the other. Strange times.
Exclusive: In a letter published in The Independent the MPs warn a bad Brexit deal could 'tear' the fabric of London apart"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-brexit-referendum-second-peoples-vote-labour-mps-london-a8379351.html
Not much has changed in the polls, MOE at most, so not much point in another referendum while the turd is still airborne, and when fan impact happens it will be too late.
Just batten down the hatches for a stormy ride, doubly so when the coastal towns and old coalfields find that they have been sold a pack of lies.
See
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/general-data-protection-regulation-call-for-views
as an example of the numerous consultations - I suspect you just weren't aware of them, and our media couldn't be bothered to report on them.
I'm not a fan - I think it's way OTT. But there's no denying that it has British fingerprints all over it, and it's an example of how British governments do stuff at one remove and then let the EU get blamed.
And Switzerland was very poor for large chunks of its existence. What goes up can come down, and vice versa.
In defence of Juncker you do have a fair number of Italian elitists like Monti who think being part of some sort of northern European empire is in Italy's best interests.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-has-been-talking-to-github-about-possible-acquisition-report/
https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1002309010895327232?s=19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE
And I believe Oettingers remarks were taken out of context to.
Yet apparently we should now head to our bunkers and prepare for a full on kamikaze Brexit. .
What tosh.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/football/market/1.144299965
Can't tell the difference between writing and endorsing a story and simply re-tweeting it.
Or, at least, entertaining..
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/first-modern-britons-dark-black-skin-cheddar-man-dna-analysis-reveals
More seriously, its the world's latest git source code repository. People pay them to store their code in a certain way
I suppose you could just about argue that Cameron wouldn't have turned himself into the particular pretzel that came out of "we will not let matters rest", but the root cause of the position he took on that was that a chunk of his party dislike the EU a lot, so they'd most likely just have pushed him into committing to a referendum.
Later, when your friends have commented, edit the question to something like "Have you ever posted naked pictures of your wife /girlfriend on the Internet without her permission?"
You can then take a screenshot and blackmail your friends.
On football/newspapers, with things kicking off in Russia in a few weeks are the lawyers ready with their super injunctions yet. I imagine the Sundays will be doing their bit to assist with England's chances. Could do with a market on who'll be first out of the blocks.
It would have made zero difference to immigration, or anything else that motivated meaningful numbers of Leave voters.
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1002676747870056449
The skeptics also never had a workable plan for the alternative they wanted short of exit, and it's not really clear that anyone has a workable plan for that either.
http://time.com/5298329/trumps-trade-war-is-already-hurting-american-whiskey-distillers
However, it should be noted that there are significant problems Waymo have not yet solved (at least as far as I am aware, and they would be trumpeting them if they had), and they have picked 'easy' places to start tests, such as Phoenix.
"But we should all be in no doubt"
Yes, we should. You are absolutely clueless on this, and are just swallowing the PR from a bunch of companies who are hoping to make billions.
As for trucks: you only save lots of money with driverless if you have driverless point-to-point. They're nowhere near that, and the consequences of a truck crash can be much greater than one with cars.