The EU are being utter dicks about it. Deliberately.
The UK is trying hard to find creative solutions that work. Good for DD.
The UK is not looking for solutions. Cabinet ministers have yet to agree what they want.
I strongly disagree. It is.
The EU is looking to use NI as a Trojan Horse to force the rest of the UK into a much closer alignment on the single market and customs union than it would otherwise have. So it isn’t really interested in creative solutions that might mitigate against that.
That’s as plain as the nose on your face.
The EU wants what is best for the EU shock. Whoever could have predicted that?
Yep, so you agree with me then.
Glad we got that straight.
Of course the EU wants what is best for the EU. Who could possibly disagree? The problem is that the negotiation is totally unequal. We need them a whole lot more than they need us. Why any of this is a surprise to anyone is beyond me. But it’s something the UK is going to have to get used to in the international trade arena.
It’s give and take. But if the EU don’t realise how much they need to access London capital markets, then they really are heading for a full blown economic crisis soon.
"They need us more than we need them" eh?
On access to the world's capital markets, absolutely.
Surely an indecisive Gordon Brown is just a tautology?
Gordon Brown was rather like David Cameron. Both wanted to be PM because they thought they’d be good at it. Ho hum!
Ah but one of them was right. Cameron was rather good at it. Brown, not so much.
Cameron was dreadful at it once he was on his own with just Tories in his government - he could not stand up to them at all. While he had Lib Dems in the government, he could balance the competing tendencies - he was quite good at that.
Fair enough but I am reminded of Pratchetts description of Greebo coming out of the box he had been put it. There were 3 possibilities. Alive dead and absolutely furious. If Arlene is in the last state May will have a problem.
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
"Donald Trump received a lot of financial support from his father — in addition to a large inheritance.
The growth of his wealth since 1982 has been in line with that of the S&P 500, according to his own statements. Donald Trump's self-described net worth was $200 million in 1982. If he invested that money in the S&P 500, he'd be worth about $8.3 billion today. Today he claims his net worth is $8.7 billion. So based on his own claims, he has barely outperformed the S&P since 1982."
It's long but brilliant essay, and well worth a read. Perversely, the politicians on the council who have been routine vilified come out looking better than all the national politicians, and many of the 'campaigners' who oppose them.
I look forward to the results of the inquiry with interest; I guess many campaigners are practising the word 'whitewash'.
That point is surely covered by: Tower blocks are designed so if a fire breaks out in a property, the blaze can be held there for a length of time, allowing fire crews to respond. This is called compartmentation. It clearly failed at Grenfell Tower. The “stay put” policy may well have to be changed, particularly after this failure of compartmentation at Grenfell.
What is slightly odd is that with tower blocks all over the capital, not much has been made of the lack of equipment. Maybe the politicians can't work out which party's fault this is.
No, it isn't - because he is clearly prejudging things. Read his second paragraph.
Sadly, this will not be the case for the media and the 'campaigners', who want to simplify things because someone needs to be to blame. That person is, usually and unsurprisingly, a person or group the campaigner does not like. They will try to simplify a complex story.
O'Hagan's article is excellent and is very uncomfortable reading.
I agree O'Hagan's article is excellent and well worth a read.
For me the question I am left with is why there was no apparent attempt to evacuate those trapped using spare sets of breathing apparatus, once it was clear the fire could not be contained. Was it fear that the building might collapse? Lack of equipment? Was it against agreed protocol? I recognise is very easy to pontificate in the cold light of day, so let's hope the inquiry gets to the detail. I don't doubt for one minute the bravery of the individual firefighters - no one would have wanted to be in their place.
Sadly, history shows time and time again that it often takes a disaster to help us understand how to avoid future ones.
Breathing apparatus is bloody heavy - not something you can just lug up the stairs in the middle of a massive fire when you’ve got your own equipment on your back. And it’s unlikely they would hVe had the 50 odd spares neeeded.
It's long but brilliant essay, and well worth a read. Perversely, the politicians on the council who have been routine vilified come out looking better than all the national politicians, and many of the 'campaigners' who oppose them.
I look forward to the results of the inquiry with interest; I guess many campaigners are practising the word 'whitewash'.
That point is surely covered by: Tower blocks are designed so if a fire breaks out in a property, the blaze can be held there for a length of time, allowing fire crews to respond. This is called compartmentation. It clearly failed at Grenfell Tower. The “stay put” policy may well have to be changed, particularly after this failure of compartmentation at Grenfell.
What is slightly odd is that with tower blocks all over the capital, not much has been made of the lack of equipment. Maybe the politicians can't work out which party's fault this is.
No, it isn't - because he is clearly prejudging things. Read his second paragraph.
Sadly, this will not be the case for the media and the 'campaigners', who want to simplify things because someone needs to be to blame. That person is, usually and unsurprisingly, a person or group the campaigner does not like. They will try to simplify a complex story.
O'Hagan's article is excellent and is very uncomfortable reading.
I agree O'Hagan's article is excellent and well worth a read.
For me the question I am left with is why there was no apparent attempt to evacuate those trapped using spare sets of breathing apparatus, once it was clear the fire could not be contained. Was it fear that the building might collapse? Lack of equipment? Was it against agreed protocol? I recognise is very easy to pontificate in the cold light of day, so let's hope the inquiry gets to the detail. I don't doubt for one minute the bravery of the individual firefighters - no one would have wanted to be in their place.
Sadly, history shows time and time again that it often takes a disaster to help us understand how to avoid future ones.
Breathing apparatus is bloody heavy - not something you can just lug up the stairs in the middle of a massive fire when you’ve got your own equipment on your back. And it’s unlikely they would hVe had the 50 odd spares neeeded.
It's long but brilliant essay, and well worth a read. Perversely, the politicians on the council who have been routine vilified come out looking better than all the national politicians, and many of the 'campaigners' who oppose them.
I look forward to the results of the inquiry with interest; I guess many campaigners are practising the word 'whitewash'.
The public inquiry has barely begun, and journalists are making snap judgments
By heck - the fire wasn't even out and journalists were making snap judgments - 'austerity' 'posh Tory councillors' 'uncaring government' 'poor people surrounded by millionaires' (as Hagen makes clear, some survivors particularly resent that one...Is the Gen Sec of the FBU saying the Fire Brigade has 'nothing to learn'? I've no doubt the individual firemen on the scene behaved heroically under appalling circumstances - but I very much doubt any of them would do 'exactly the same again'....
The compartmentalisation would have worked had it not been for the cladding which was relatively recently installed. That said, the advice to stay put clearly should have been changed earlier.
"If it had not been for..."
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO). *If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended. *If* the cladding had not been combustible. *If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically. *If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious. *If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
So have any strawberries been sighted within the M25 yet ?
There was over 100kg of them available in the Asda I visited yesterday though interestingly strawberries appear to be a devolved issue with those from Angus displaying a Saltire while the produce of John Davies, Hereford had a Union Jack.
If the London strawberry famine is real perhaps PBers living elsewhere should start a campaign to help our friends in the world city.
Or perhaps not - distributing strawberries on Oxford Street might lead to Oxfam in Haiti issues.
The compartmentalisation would have worked had it not been for the cladding which was relatively recently installed. That said, the advice to stay put clearly should have been changed earlier.
"If it had not been for..."
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO). *If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended. *If* the cladding had not been combustible. *If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically. *If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious. *If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
What about the farmers who live 11 miles from the border?
The the NI farmers are anything like the farmers round here, most will have fields dotted over a wide area, purchased or rented as opportunitiy allowed over many years. I wouldn't be surprised if some have land within the 10 miles zone, outside it on the NI side and also insode the RoI.
Farage defending US sanctions imposed on the UK. Lawson applying for permanent French residence. Redwood advising investors to get out of the UK. The patriotism of right wing Brexiteers is so noble, good and true.
Technically Trump imposed sanctions on the EU not the UK specifically and he had hinted he could exempt the UK post Brexit as it pays its defence bills, as he has Australia and South Korea
What about the farmers who live 11 miles from the border?
The the NI farmers are anything like the farmers round here, most will have fields dotted over a wide area, purchased or rented as opportunitiy allowed over many years. I wouldn't be surprised if some have land within the 10 miles zone, outside it on the NI side and also insode the RoI.
I predict this plan will last until at least lunch time.
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
Although Italian populist now can form a government according to the overnight news. So there probably wont be an election this summer that results in them having even more seats.
One week since the EU launched GDPR anyone know why PB doesn't have a cookie banner/policy and explicit opt in's/opt out's for personal cookies as well as consent gathering etc?
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
' 'This week Wimbledon is being launched and the people who normally produce the strawberries can't produce them because the labour force has disappeared because of anxiety about their future status in Britain,' he told Sky News's Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme. '
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
I wonder whether Germany will use the new bail in rules and force losses on depositors or bail it out with taxpayer money. By EU law they must do the former, however, I don't think the government will allow ordinary depositors to lose any of their money.
What about the farmers who live 11 miles from the border?
The the NI farmers are anything like the farmers round here, most will have fields dotted over a wide area, purchased or rented as opportunitiy allowed over many years. I wouldn't be surprised if some have land within the 10 miles zone, outside it on the NI side and also insode the RoI.
Didn't the border once run through the middle of fields - thus allowing some creative subsidy farming.
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
I wonder whether Germany will use the new bail in rules and force losses on depositors or bail it out with taxpayer money. By EU law they must do the former, however, I don't think the government will allow ordinary depositors to lose any of their money.
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
There is a madman running the US and the only world entity with the clout and muscle to stand up to him is the EU which we have just left. We are alone and up shit creek without a paddle.
This is what happens when you allow the lunatics to take over the asylum even for a day.
So much for standing up to him - he went ahead with his tariff plan despite their complaints.
So much for the special relationship - he went ahead with his tariff plan despite our grovelling.
What about the farmers who live 11 miles from the border?
The the NI farmers are anything like the farmers round here, most will have fields dotted over a wide area, purchased or rented as opportunitiy allowed over many years. I wouldn't be surprised if some have land within the 10 miles zone, outside it on the NI side and also insode the RoI.
Didn't the border once run through the middle of fields - thus allowing some creative subsidy farming.
Yes. "Dizzy cows" were used by farmers to claim subsidies several times over by crossing and re-crossing the border with the same animals.
As was relayed in a novel of the time (1986):
"Sure the cattle come back and forward up here so quickly they're dizzy and there's nothing we can do about it, so much for the common market. They bring them out to collect the subsidies and back by an unapproved road then tomorrow repeat the performance. We can even recognise some of the bloody animals."
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
Give him a chance, he's got at least 2 more years of presidential stealing ahead of him.
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
The EU are being utter dicks about it. Deliberately.
The UK is trying hard to find creative solutions that work. Good for DD.
The UK is not looking for solutions. Cabinet ministers have yet to agree what they want.
I strongly disagree. It is.
The EU is looking to use NI as a Trojan Horse to force the rest of the UK into a much closer alignment on the single market and customs union than it would otherwise have. So it isn’t really interested in creative solutions that might mitigate against that.
That’s as plain as the nose on your face.
The EU wants what is best for the EU shock. Whoever could have predicted that?
Yep, so you agree with me then.
Glad we got that straight.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwnn.
Yep - it’s this lack of interest in reality on the Brexit right that has got us to into this unfortunate position.
No. It’s the lack of interest in your tired repetition of the same points on here, again and again, day after day. This must be the 823rd time you’ve post this.
At least you’ve dialled back on posting on here daily about Theresa May’s stunning mediocrity. That was your ‘thing’ about a year ago.
May remains stunningly mediocre. You continue to blame the EU for doing what is best for the EU. Some things never change.
It is hard to know whether May is just an indecisive Gordon Brown, or whether she is deliberately running down the clock so the Brexiteers have to rubber stamp her BINO plan.
My money is on the first. 10 months to go...
Surely an indecisive Gordon Brown is just a tautology?
Gordon Brown was rather like David Cameron. Both wanted to be PM because they thought they’d be good at it.
Ho hum!
Ah but one of them was right. Cameron was rather good at it. Brown, not so much.
You're right, that's why Cameron will soon be leading the Tory party to a crushing electoral victory over Labour having slayed the Eurosceptic rump in his own party and asserted dominance.... Oh.
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
Except that middle America doesn’t understand the nuances of international trade policy, they just see the President doing what he said he’d do and putting America First, protecting their jobs.
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
Mr. Sandpit, between this and the Iran deal difference, I wonder if the schism opening up in the West will outlive Trump's presidency.
The Don can see the miserable appeasers in Germany sliding towards Moscow so they can guzzle on natural gas after being so daft as to ditch all their coal and nuclear for sunbeam green technology.
The don't contribute their fair share to Nato, can't influence the middle East and are busy constructing big government all over the continent.
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
Give him a chance, he's got at least 2 more years of presidential stealing ahead of him.
What possible reason could Trump have for Steel Tarrifs not affecting China?
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
Give him a chance, he's got at least 2 more years of presidential stealing ahead of him.
I get the impression a lot of people around him are making a lot more money than he is out of this farrago.
What on earth were Ciudadanos doing supporting Rajoy to the bitter end there ? Obviously PP are going to bat for their own man but that is a terrible look for Cs.
The EU are being utter dicks about it. Deliberately.
The UK is trying hard to find creative solutions that work. Good for DD.
The UK is not looking for solutions. Cabinet ministers have yet to agree what they want.
I strongl
The EU wants what is best for the EU shock. Whoever could have predicted that?
Yep, so you agree with me then.
Glad we got that straight.
Of
Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwnn.
Yep - it’s this lack of interest in reality on the Brexit right that has got us to into this unfortunate position.
No.
May remains stunningly mediocre. You continue to blame the EU for doing what is best for the EU. Some things never change.
Nope. I just have more balance in my views.
For you, the EU can do no wrong and the fault always lies with the Tory Government regardless of what it is.
There are stronger critics of Brexit on here than you who manage to exhibit a level of dispassionate analysis from time to time, and are able to criticise Brussels when it is warranted.
Sadly, you are not one of them, and have chosen instead to be a scribing ScottP.
Yes, you are renowned for your balanced views!! I get that you cannot argue against the points I make and that this frustrates you. If playing the man not the ball helps you, so be it.
Actually my views are balanced, and I’ve conceded the complexity of Brexit on here many times. I have gone round in circles with you so many times on your standard argument that to do it again is simply as waste of my time.
I’m not playing the man (you) not the ball either. I’m simply pointing out your posting approach on here for what it is and encouraging you to engage with the content more, rather than just push cliched attack lines.
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
Except that middle America doesn’t understand the nuances of international trade policy, they just see the President doing what he said he’d do and putting America First, protecting their jobs.
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
Let's see. I think there's enough time for this to go bad for the Donald. Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
What on earth were Ciudadanos doing supporting Rajoy to the bitter end there ? Obviously PP are going to bat for their own man but that is a terrible look for Cs.
Cs attempts to portray themselves as centre/centre left look increasingly threadbare.
The compartmentalisation would have worked had it not been for the cladding which was relatively recently installed. That said, the advice to stay put clearly should have been changed earlier.
"If it had not been for..."
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO). *If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended. *If* the cladding had not been combustible. *If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically. *If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious. *If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
+1
There are situations in life, are there not, when, however careful the planning, everything that can go wrong does.
What on earth were Ciudadanos doing supporting Rajoy to the bitter end there ? Obviously PP are going to bat for their own man but that is a terrible look for Cs.
Most of Ciudadanos’ voters are probably ex PP. There might not be much appetite in Spain for a fresh election, which is what they’ll probably get.
The EU are being utter dicks about it. Deliberately.
The UK is trying hard to find creative solutions that work. Good for DD.
The UK is not looking for solutions. Cabinet ministers have yet to agree what they want.
I strongly disagree. It is.
The EU is looking to use NI as a Trojan Horse to force the rest of the UK into a much closer alignment on the single market and customs union than it would otherwise have. So it isn’t really interested in creative solutions that might mitigate against that.
That’s as plain as the nose on your face.
The EU wants what is best for the EU shock. Whoever could have predicted that?
Yep, so you agree with me then.
Glad we got that straight.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwnn.
Yep - it’s this lack of interest in reality on the Brexit right that has got us to into this unfortunate position.
No. It’s the lack of interest in your tired repetition of the same points on here, again and again, day after day. This must be the 823rd time you’ve post this.
At least you’ve dialled back on posting on here daily about Theresa May’s stunning mediocrity. That was your ‘thing’ about a year ago.
May remains stunningly mediocre. You continue to blame the EU for doing what is best for the EU. Some things never change.
It is hard to know whether May is just an indecisive Gordon Brown, or whether she is deliberately running down the clock so the Brexiteers have to rubber stamp her BINO plan.
My money is on the first. 10 months to go...
Surely an indecisive Gordon Brown is just a tautology?
Gordon Brown was rather like David Cameron. Both wanted to be PM because they thought they’d be good at it.
Ho hum!
Ah but one of them was right. Cameron was rather good at it. Brown, not so much.
Cameron was good at it? You've obviously missed the whole Brexit fiasco, almost losing Scotland, and leaving the Home Secretary in post for six years.
The compartmentalisation would have worked had it not been for the cladding which was relatively recently installed. That said, the advice to stay put clearly should have been changed earlier.
"If it had not been for..."
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO). *If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended. *If* the cladding had not been combustible. *If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically. *If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious. *If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
+1
There are situations in life, are there not, when, however careful the planning, everything that can go wrong does.
The EU are being utter dicks about it. Deliberately.
The UK is trying hard to find creative solutions that work. Good for DD.
The UK is not looking for solutions. Cabinet ministers have yet to agree what they want.
I strongly disagree. It is.
The EU is looking to use NI as a Trojan Horse to force the rest of the UK into a much closer alignment on the single market and customs union than it would otherwise have. So it isn’t really interested in creative solutions that might mitigate against that.
That’s as plain as the nose on your face.
The EU wants what is best for the EU shock. Whoever could have predicted that?
Yep, so you agree with me then.
Glad we got that straight.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwnn.
Yep - it’s this lack of interest in reality on the Brexit right that has got us to into this unfortunate position.
At least you’ve dialled back on posting on here daily about Theresa May’s stunning mediocrity. That was your ‘thing’ about a year ago.
May remains stunningly mediocre. You continue to blame the EU for doing what is best for the EU. Some things never change.
It is hard to know whether May is just an indecisive Gordon Brown, or whether she is deliberately running down the clock so the Brexiteers have to rubber stamp her BINO plan.
My money is on the first. 10 months to go...
Surely an indecisive Gordon Brown is just a tautology?
Gordon Brown was rather like David Cameron. Both wanted to be PM because they thought they’d be good at it.
Ho hum!
Ah but one of them was right. Cameron was rather good at it. Brown, not so much.
Cameron was good at it? You've obviously missed the whole Brexit fiasco, almost losing Scotland, and leaving the Home Secretary in post for six years.
Another reason why Nick Clegg should have demanded the Home Office as well as the non-job of DPM. After all the guy who was probably the best Home Sec post war ended up as a LibDem.
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
Except that middle America doesn’t understand the nuances of international trade policy, they just see the President doing what he said he’d do and putting America First, protecting their jobs.
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
Let's see. I think there's enough time for this to go bad for the Donald. Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
The advantage Trump has against the EU is time - on the eastern side of the big pond decisions are made by consensus and take time to implement, whereas Trump can make an executive announcement and have it effective within a few weeks. They’re also going to be horribly tied up with Italy and the UK for the next couple of years. US tarrifs against the EU also give the UK leverage as we should aim to come to a Brexit deal that gets us out of the EU customs union as quickly as possible.
China is more complicated, but there’s a massive trade imbalance there which Trump can take advantage of. Most American companies working in China are finding it very difficult with IP theft rampant and manufacturers producing their own fake goods on the production lines after hours - while artificially holding down their currency and buying up the world’s supply of Greenbacks in the form of US debt.
I’m in favour of global free trade, and the economics of Trump’s actions are going to be negative over time. But in the short term it’s easy to make them positive, and politically it’s more likely to be a boost for his popularity at home than not. The next election is in November 2020, that’s only 29 months away.
The compartmentalisation would have worked had it not been for the cladding which was relatively recently installed. That said, the advice to stay put clearly should have been changed earlier.
"If it had not been for..."
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO). *If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended. *If* the cladding had not been combustible. *If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically. *If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious. *If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
+1
There are situations in life, are there not, when, however careful the planning, everything that can go wrong does.
You are right, of course. Smugly in retirment and not having to keep up to date with these things, I’d forgotten about the appropriately named Prof Reason!
The compartmentalisation would have worked had it not been for the cladding which was relatively recently installed. That said, the advice to stay put clearly should have been changed earlier.
"If it had not been for..."
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO). *If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended. *If* the cladding had not been combustible. *If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically. *If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious. *If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
+1
There are situations in life, are there not, when, however careful the planning, everything that can go wrong does.
Yup, and having people running around like headless chickens trying to find someone to put in jail, isn’t going to stop the holes lining up again in the future.
What on earth were Ciudadanos doing supporting Rajoy to the bitter end there ? Obviously PP are going to bat for their own man but that is a terrible look for Cs.
Wrong - they will not vote with the Catalan extremists whom Sanchez has got into bed with to topple Rajoy. Ciudadanos are ahead in the polls and are likely to stay ahead. This is likely to be a Phyrric victory for Sanchez,
The compartmentalisation would have worked had it not been for the cladding which was relatively recently installed. That said, the advice to stay put clearly should have been changed earlier.
"If it had not been for..."
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO). *If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended. *If* the cladding had not been combustible. *If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically. *If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious. *If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
+1
There are situations in life, are there not, when, however careful the planning, everything that can go wrong does.
Yup, and having people running around like headless chickens trying to find someone to put in jail, isn’t going to stop the holes lining up again in the future.
Experience in aviation and in medicine makes it clear that taking the attitude that ‘somebody ought to be summonsed’ is actually counter-productive in preventing error.
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
Except that middle America doesn’t understand the nuances of international trade policy, they just see the President doing what he said he’d do and putting America First, protecting their jobs.
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
Let's see. I think there's enough time for this to go bad for the Donald. Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
The advantage Trump has against the EU is time - on the eastern side of the big pond decisions are made by consensus and take time to implement, whereas Trump can make an executive announcement and have it effective within a few weeks. They’re also going to be horribly tied up with Italy and the UK for the next couple of years. US tarrifs against the EU also give the UK leverage as we should aim to come to a Brexit deal that gets us out of the EU customs union as quickly as possible.
China is more complicated, but there’s a massive trade imbalance there which Trump can take advantage of. Most American companies working in China are finding it very difficult with IP theft rampant and manufacturers producing their own fake goods on the production lines after hours - while artificially holding down their currency and buying up the world’s supply of Greenbacks in the form of US debt.
I’m in favour of global free trade, and the economics of Trump’s actions are going to be negative over time. But in the short term it’s easy to make them positive, and politically it’s more likely to be a boost for his popularity at home than not. The next election is in November 2020, that’s only 29 months away.
I don't think the EU is going to be slow to respond to this stuff, they've been given plenty of warning and will have scenarios planned out.
The positive impact of all this is it seems to be speeding up EU trade deals with other countries!
What on earth were Ciudadanos doing supporting Rajoy to the bitter end there ? Obviously PP are going to bat for their own man but that is a terrible look for Cs.
Wrong - they will not vote with the Catalan extremists whom Sanchez has got into bed with to topple Rajoy. Ciudadanos are ahead in the polls and are likely to stay ahead. This is likely to be a Phyrric victory for Sanchez,
Ciudadanos could not lose. PSOE are relevant again. Rajoy is finished. Hard to see a downside right now!
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
Only if he hasn't spent s penny either and lived like a pauper. I don't think so which means he has added over and above the tracker the sum of what he's spent in order to maintain that wealth growth.
But the prospect of an exit terrifies even those who know by now how much they have suffered from it. Fear trumps anger. Hence the acquiescence of the Greek electorate in Syriza’s capitulation to Brussels, the setbacks of Podemos in Spain, the shuffling of feet by the Parti de Gauche in France. The underlying sense is everywhere the same. The system is bad. To affront it is to risk retribution.
What, then, explains Brexit? Mass immigration is another fear across the EU, and it was whipped up in the UK by the Leave campaign, in which Nigel Farage was a conspicuous speaker and organiser, alongside prominent Conservatives. But xenophobia on its own is by no means enough to outweigh fear of economic meltdown. In England, as elsewhere, it has been growing as one government after another has lied about the scale of immigration. But if the referendum on the EU had just been a contest between these fears, as the political establishment sought to make it, Remain would have no doubt won by a handsome margin, as it did in the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence.
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
Except that middle America doesn’t understand the nuances of international trade policy, they just see the President doing what he said he’d do and putting America First, protecting their jobs.
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
Let's see. I think there's enough time for this to go bad for the Donald. Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
The advantage Trump has against the EU is time - on the eastern side of the big pond decisions are made by consensus and take time to implement, whereas Trump can make an executive announcement and have it effective within a few weeks. They’re also going to be horribly tied up with Italy and the UK for the next couple of years. US tarrifs against the EU also give the UK leverage as we should aim to come to a Brexit deal that gets us out of the EU customs union as quickly as possible....
That's also potentially a disadvantage. The EU is rules and consensus based, so they are not going to fold however 'tied up' they might be. And the selective impact of tariffs (an explicit aim of EU retaliation) is going to do Trump electoral damage. The idea that this might be offset by new steel jobs is the sheerest fantasy.
And time is not on Trump's side, as he faces midterms this year. Being President is an awful lot more complicated when you actually have an opposition in Congress.
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
Only if he hasn't spent s penny either and lived like a pauper. I don't think so which means he has added over and above the tracker the sum of what he's spent in order to maintain that wealth growth.
Let's see how far Mueller gets following the money before we decide how commercially successful Trump might be...
What on earth were Ciudadanos doing supporting Rajoy to the bitter end there ? Obviously PP are going to bat for their own man but that is a terrible look for Cs.
Wrong - they will not vote with the Catalan extremists whom Sanchez has got into bed with to topple Rajoy. Ciudadanos are ahead in the polls and are likely to stay ahead. This is likely to be a Phyrric victory for Sanchez,
Ciudadanos could not lose. PSOE are relevant again. Rajoy is finished. Hard to see a downside right now!
I guess Rajoy is gambling on elections in a few months and Sanchez messing up - as good a strategy as any. But yes - big chance for Ciudadanos - they are a better fit for my views than the rest.
But the prospect of an exit terrifies even those who know by now how much they have suffered from it. Fear trumps anger. Hence the acquiescence of the Greek electorate in Syriza’s capitulation to Brussels, the setbacks of Podemos in Spain, the shuffling of feet by the Parti de Gauche in France. The underlying sense is everywhere the same. The system is bad. To affront it is to risk retribution.
What, then, explains Brexit? Mass immigration is another fear across the EU, and it was whipped up in the UK by the Leave campaign, in which Nigel Farage was a conspicuous speaker and organiser, alongside prominent Conservatives. But xenophobia on its own is by no means enough to outweigh fear of economic meltdown. In England, as elsewhere, it has been growing as one government after another has lied about the scale of immigration. But if the referendum on the EU had just been a contest between these fears, as the political establishment sought to make it, Remain would have no doubt won by a handsome margin, as it did in the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence.
The Greek electorate acquiesced in Syriza’s capitulation *after* they had already voted for ‘no deal’ in a referendum. If you want to draw a lesson for Brexit it’s that the electorate doesn’t really mean it when they vote for confrontation.
Whether that’s good or bad depends on whether the Indian bookmakers have got hold of the Pakistani batsmen, the England bowlers or the Headlingly ground staff.
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
Except that middle America doesn’t understand the nuances of international trade policy, they just see the President doing what he said he’d do and putting America First, protecting their jobs.
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
Let's see. I think there's enough time for this to go bad for the Donald. Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
Economic nationalism tends to play well in Flyover States, and it will be furriners that get blamed for rhe economic impact. Probably result in a boycott of BMW SUVs made in South Carolina
Let's see. I think there's enough time for this to go bad for the Donald. Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
Economic nationalism tends to play well in Flyover States, and it will be furriners that get blamed for rhe economic impact. Probably result in a boycott of BMW SUVs made in South Carolina
Economic nationalism talk plays well. Economic nationalism action may not. But it's still much more likely that Trump is all talk and will chicken out.
Whether that’s good or bad depends on whether the Indian bookmakers have got hold of the Pakistani batsmen, the England bowlers or the Headlingly ground staff.
If it’s the Headingly groundstaff tey’ll probably mess up what they’re supposed to do.
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
I wonder whether Germany will use the new bail in rules and force losses on depositors or bail it out with taxpayer money. By EU law they must do the former, however, I don't think the government will allow ordinary depositors to lose any of their money.
Deutsche has lots of subordinated capital that will take the hit long before the depositors. Only about a third of the firm's liabilities are deposits. (EUR500bn out of EUR1.4trn)
Senior Republicans including Speaker Paul Ryan attack Trump's tariffs plan as 'attacking American allies when we should be working with them to tackle unfair Chinese trade practices.'
...
And do nothing about it.
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
Except that middle America doesn’t understand the nuances of international trade policy, they just see the President doing what he said he’d do and putting America First, protecting their jobs.
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
Let's see. I think there's enough time for this to go bad for the Donald. Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
The advantage Trump has against the EU is time - on the eastern side of the big pond decisions are made by consensus and take time to implement, whereas Trump can make an executive announcement and have it effective within a few weeks. They’re also going to be horribly tied up with Italy and the UK for the next couple of years. US tarrifs against the EU also give the UK leverage as we should aim to come to a Brexit deal that gets us out of the EU customs union as quickly as possible....
That's also potentially a disadvantage. The EU is rules and consensus based, so they are not going to fold however 'tied up' they might be. And the selective impact of tariffs (an explicit aim of EU retaliation) is going to do Trump electoral damage. The idea that this might be offset by new steel jobs is the sheerest fantasy.
And time is not on Trump's side, as he faces midterms this year. Being President is an awful lot more complicated when you actually have an opposition in Congress.
I hold the opposite view: I think if the Republicans hold the House (and they will almost certainly increase their position in the Senate), then Obamacare will likely end up getting repealed.
That would be the true nail in the coffin for Trump 2020.
On the other hand, a Democratic House of Representatives gives him an excuse for not achieving things.
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
I wonder whether Germany will use the new bail in rules and force losses on depositors or bail it out with taxpayer money. By EU law they must do the former, however, I don't think the government will allow ordinary depositors to lose any of their money.
Deutsche has lots of subordinated capital that will take the hit long before the depositors. Only about a third of the firm's liabilities are deposits. (EUR500bn out of EUR1.4trn)
It depends on the size of the bailout needed.
I come back to London for an interview and all the trains are cancelled.
I hold the opposite view: I think if the Republicans hold the House (and they will almost certainly increase their position in the Senate), then Obamacare will likely end up getting repealed.
That would be the true nail in the coffin for Trump 2020.
On the other hand, a Democratic House of Representatives gives him an excuse for not achieving things.
If it's sufficiently Democratic, they'll impeach him. Which ought to see him over the line comfortably.
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
I wonder whether Germany will use the new bail in rules and force losses on depositors or bail it out with taxpayer money. By EU law they must do the former, however, I don't think the government will allow ordinary depositors to lose any of their money.
Deutsche has lots of subordinated capital that will take the hit long before the depositors. Only about a third of the firm's liabilities are deposits. (EUR500bn out of EUR1.4trn)
It depends on the size of the bailout needed.
I come back to London for an interview and all the trains are cancelled.
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
I wonder whether Germany will use the new bail in rules and force losses on depositors or bail it out with taxpayer money. By EU law they must do the former, however, I don't think the government will allow ordinary depositors to lose any of their money.
Deutsche has lots of subordinated capital that will take the hit long before the depositors. Only about a third of the firm's liabilities are deposits. (EUR500bn out of EUR1.4trn)
It depends on the size of the bailout needed.
I come back to London for an interview and all the trains are cancelled.
This would never happen in Switzerland!
There's close to a trillion of other liabilities junior to the depositors. There is literally no chance they will get a haircut here.
Assume that 20% of Deutche's EUR400bn of loans go bad, and that there's 50% recovery - that's a EUR40bn hole.
Assume their investments of EUR700bn get haircut 20% (and they won't, because a large chunk of that will be German, UK and US government bonds), and you knock another EUR140bn off.
And assume there are EUR100bn of other "issues" that we don't know about. (There won't be.)
That's EUR280bn (and I'm probably four times too high with that estimate). Even in that scenario, the depositors woundn't get touched.
Now, do shareholders get utterly wiped out in my scenario? Yes.
But there are lots of people in the capital structure junior to the depositors, and they will lose all their money first. So - all the preferred stock and CoCo bonds will be zeroed, then subordinated debt, etc.
I hold the opposite view: I think if the Republicans hold the House (and they will almost certainly increase their position in the Senate), then Obamacare will likely end up getting repealed.
That would be the true nail in the coffin for Trump 2020.
On the other hand, a Democratic House of Representatives gives him an excuse for not achieving things.
If it's sufficiently Democratic, they'll impeach him. Which ought to see him over the line comfortably.
The Senate, though, will have a large Republican majority, so impeachment is likely to be a damp squib.
It's Donald Trump taking the piss for no other reason than he can. He's having fun and why not? He's the clown son of a multi billionaire who has tired of everything else and is now enjoying seeing how far he can make the world gyrate as he pulls the strings.
He's loving it! It reminds me of the film 'Rollerball'. Life had become so shallow and meaningless that they decided to make the national sport more exciting. They drop all the rules. Ironically it was shot in '75 but it was set in the future. 2018 to be exact!
Trunp is a billionaire his father was a millionaire
Except the $100m+ he inherited from his father, if tracked to the S&P 500, is equivalent to Donald's current net worth. So I guess they are roughly the same. And Mr Trump hasn't really added anything.
Give him a chance, he's got at least 2 more years of presidential stealing ahead of him.
I get the impression a lot of people around him are making a lot more money than he is out of this farrago.
Trump is minting it. His properties are being used all the time and he charges full market rate. The secret service have had to rent out a full floor of Trump Tower.
I see Deutsche Bank's share price is looking increasingly sickly.
I wonder whether Germany will use the new bail in rules and force losses on depositors or bail it out with taxpayer money. By EU law they must do the former, however, I don't think the government will allow ordinary depositors to lose any of their money.
Deutsche has lots of subordinated capital that will take the hit long before the depositors. Only about a third of the firm's liabilities are deposits. (EUR500bn out of EUR1.4trn)
It depends on the size of the bailout needed.
I come back to London for an interview and all the trains are cancelled.
This would never happen in Switzerland!
There's close to a trillion of other liabilities junior to the depositors. There is literally no chance they will get a haircut here.
Assume that 20% of Deutche's EUR400bn of loans go bad, and that there's 50% recovery - that's a EUR40bn hole.
Assume their investments of EUR700bn get haircut 20% (and they won't, because a large chunk of that will be German, UK and US government bonds), and you knock another EUR140bn off.
And assume there are EUR100bn of other "issues" that we don't know about. (There won't be.)
That's EUR280bn (and I'm probably four times too high with that estimate). Even in that scenario, the depositors woundn't get touched.
Now, do shareholders get utterly wiped out in my scenario? Yes.
But there are lots of people in the capital structure junior to the depositors, and they will lose all their money first. So - all the preferred stock and CoCo bonds will be zeroed, then subordinated debt, etc.
I think the shareholders get fucked whatever happens. The issue, I guess, is that we may see ECB intervene and buy up subordinated debt to prevent a collapse. That's the blue print for the banks in Cyprus than needed bailing in iirc.
It's long but brilliant essay, and well worth a read. Perversely, the politicians on the council who have been routine vilified come out looking better than all the national politicians, and many of the 'campaigners' who oppose them.
I look forward to the results of the inquiry with interest; I guess many campaigners are practising the word 'whitewash'.
That really is an exceptionally good article. The issues of "the narrative" that the media leapt upon show a huge problem with the news media in this country (and, quite probably, not just this country). In effect, they've managed to create the "fake news" industry, because why should anyone else worry about honesty in news reporting, when the "proper" media appear not to?
That may seem like a harsh statement, considering that the proper media try to ensure they build their narratives with at least a grain of truth somewhere in there and try to avoid explicit untruths, but that nowadays just seems to be them playing their own personal game with how to mislead people while following a set of "rules".
There's a great word: "paltering". It means deliberately misleading without explicitly lying at any point. We all know how to do this - you omit parts, you say something close to what they expect, you cherry-pick out of context. Those doing it tend to think it's not anywhere as bad as explicitly lying; those on the receiving end disagree: http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-59847-001
The media work on making up stories around what's actually happened. The prime purpose of these is to fit their agenda or cause outrage; the reality of the circumstances is all but irrelevant. Why else are the Guardian and Daily Mail so different - they operate in the same world and reality? They're all professional palterers, and look aghast at the professional liars that have turned up. Unfortunately we on the receiving end quite rightly see them as all professional misleaders and in the same category.
Mr. Cooke, that sort of thing will only get worse if the EU's demented desire to massively curb news on the internet via nonsense such as the link tax goes ahead.
Comments
The growth of his wealth since 1982 has been in line with that of the S&P 500, according to his own statements. Donald Trump's self-described net worth was $200 million in 1982. If he invested that money in the S&P 500, he'd be worth about $8.3 billion today. Today he claims his net worth is $8.7 billion. So based on his own claims, he has barely outperformed the S&P since 1982."
Forbes estimate is $3.1 Billion
https://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/#2bac8cab2899
Eire:NI
Eire:(NI - 10 miles)
NI:GB
By heck - the fire wasn't even out and journalists were making snap judgments - 'austerity' 'posh Tory councillors' 'uncaring government' 'poor people surrounded by millionaires' (as Hagen makes clear, some survivors particularly resent that one...Is the Gen Sec of the FBU saying the Fire Brigade has 'nothing to learn'? I've no doubt the individual firemen on the scene behaved heroically under appalling circumstances - but I very much doubt any of them would do 'exactly the same again'....
I bet when the inquiry report is released, we can use that line for dozens of things. This tragedy will have multiple layers of failures, both reasonable and unreasonable. For example.:
*If* the appliance had not caught fire (actually, irrelevant IMO).
*If* the firefighters had checked more thoroughly when they first attended.
*If* the cladding had not been combustible.
*If* the cladding design had not allowed the fire to spread vertically.
*If* the people had been told to leave when the scale of the fire became obvious.
*If* the BRE had been made to check all cladding and attachment types.
And many more. Any one of these might have reduce the number of, or prevented any, deaths. We can pick and choose as we like. But the important thing is to look at each of these failures, and to ask what needs to be done (if anything) to address it.
Pillorying someone unfairly will not do this, and sadly that's what O'Hagan's article shows has happened.
There was over 100kg of them available in the Asda I visited yesterday though interestingly strawberries appear to be a devolved issue with those from Angus displaying a Saltire while the produce of John Davies, Hereford had a Union Jack.
If the London strawberry famine is real perhaps PBers living elsewhere should start a campaign to help our friends in the world city.
Or perhaps not - distributing strawberries on Oxford Street might lead to Oxfam in Haiti issues.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/929374/Donald-Trump-steel-aluminium-tariffs-Theresa-May-UK-exemption-Mexico-Canada/amp
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/samantha-bee-calls-out-ivanka-trump_us_5b0f8d95e4b0fcd6a833715d
Same story at UKPR as well BTW
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
' 'This week Wimbledon is being launched and the people who normally produce the strawberries can't produce them because the labour force has disappeared because of anxiety about their future status in Britain,' he told Sky News's Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme. '
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
Only he said that last year.
The crops are going to rot in the fields in 2017 err in 2018 err in 2019 err ...
Just leave the border open Mrs May - let the EU do what it wants on their side.
not that one...
As was relayed in a novel of the time (1986):
"Sure the cattle come back and forward up here so quickly they're dizzy and there's nothing we can do about it, so much for the common market. They bring them out to collect the subsidies and back by an unapproved road then tomorrow repeat the performance. We can even recognise some of the bloody animals."
If Congress really opposes the Tariffs, it can halt them. If they don't, the Republicans deserve everything they get in the midterms.
https://twitter.com/notiven/status/1002308794146271232
Don’t be surprised if Trump’s numbers go up as a result of this - even if a more isolationist trade policy is a bad idea long term, it will have short term benefits.
The don't contribute their fair share to Nato, can't influence the middle East and are busy constructing big government all over the continent.
He's quite correct to ditch these jellyfish,
https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1001211398461018112?s=19
I’m not playing the man (you) not the ball either. I’m simply pointing out your posting approach on here for what it is and encouraging you to engage with the content more, rather than just push cliched attack lines.
But, hey ho. Your choice.
Rural voters were his strongest support last time round, and now he has both the EU and China looking for ways to make tariffs painful for key voting blocks.
After all the guy who was probably the best Home Sec post war ended up as a LibDem.
China is more complicated, but there’s a massive trade imbalance there which Trump can take advantage of. Most American companies working in China are finding it very difficult with IP theft rampant and manufacturers producing their own fake goods on the production lines after hours - while artificially holding down their currency and buying up the world’s supply of Greenbacks in the form of US debt.
I’m in favour of global free trade, and the economics of Trump’s actions are going to be negative over time. But in the short term it’s easy to make them positive, and politically it’s more likely to be a boost for his popularity at home than not. The next election is in November 2020, that’s only 29 months away.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44311522
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/30/news/economy/trump-china-us-tariffs-trade-timeline/index.html
The positive impact of all this is it seems to be speeding up EU trade deals with other countries!
https://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2018/06/just-blaming-tory-councillors-with-double-barrelled-surnames-for-the-grenfell-tragedy-was-a-lazy-media-narrative.html
There is also now a fascinating video at the foot of the essay on how RBKC have approached social housing over the years.
?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/01/arlene-foster-accepts-invitation-to-lead-orange-order-parade
The parade is in Scotland!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44327573
But the prospect of an exit terrifies even those who know by now how much they have suffered from it. Fear trumps anger. Hence the acquiescence of the Greek electorate in Syriza’s capitulation to Brussels, the setbacks of Podemos in Spain, the shuffling of feet by the Parti de Gauche in France. The underlying sense is everywhere the same. The system is bad. To affront it is to risk retribution.
What, then, explains Brexit? Mass immigration is another fear across the EU, and it was whipped up in the UK by the Leave campaign, in which Nigel Farage was a conspicuous speaker and organiser, alongside prominent Conservatives. But xenophobia on its own is by no means enough to outweigh fear of economic meltdown. In England, as elsewhere, it has been growing as one government after another has lied about the scale of immigration. But if the referendum on the EU had just been a contest between these fears, as the political establishment sought to make it, Remain would have no doubt won by a handsome margin, as it did in the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence.
https://mondediplo.com/2017/03/02brexit
And time is not on Trump's side, as he faces midterms this year. Being President is an awful lot more complicated when you actually have an opposition in Congress.
But it's still much more likely that Trump is all talk and will chicken out.
Pakistan’s first wicket down!
https://twitter.com/TobiasBuckFT/status/1002476861551767552
"HR are hassling me to get your timesheet in, otherwise people won't be paid - can this be done today?"
That would be the true nail in the coffin for Trump 2020.
On the other hand, a Democratic House of Representatives gives him an excuse for not achieving things.
I come back to London for an interview and all the trains are cancelled.
This would never happen in Switzerland!
Assume that 20% of Deutche's EUR400bn of loans go bad, and that there's 50% recovery - that's a EUR40bn hole.
Assume their investments of EUR700bn get haircut 20% (and they won't, because a large chunk of that will be German, UK and US government bonds), and you knock another EUR140bn off.
And assume there are EUR100bn of other "issues" that we don't know about. (There won't be.)
That's EUR280bn (and I'm probably four times too high with that estimate). Even in that scenario, the depositors woundn't get touched.
Now, do shareholders get utterly wiped out in my scenario? Yes.
But there are lots of people in the capital structure junior to the depositors, and they will lose all their money first. So - all the preferred stock and CoCo bonds will be zeroed, then subordinated debt, etc.
The issues of "the narrative" that the media leapt upon show a huge problem with the news media in this country (and, quite probably, not just this country). In effect, they've managed to create the "fake news" industry, because why should anyone else worry about honesty in news reporting, when the "proper" media appear not to?
That may seem like a harsh statement, considering that the proper media try to ensure they build their narratives with at least a grain of truth somewhere in there and try to avoid explicit untruths, but that nowadays just seems to be them playing their own personal game with how to mislead people while following a set of "rules".
There's a great word: "paltering". It means deliberately misleading without explicitly lying at any point. We all know how to do this - you omit parts, you say something close to what they expect, you cherry-pick out of context. Those doing it tend to think it's not anywhere as bad as explicitly lying; those on the receiving end disagree: http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-59847-001
The media work on making up stories around what's actually happened. The prime purpose of these is to fit their agenda or cause outrage; the reality of the circumstances is all but irrelevant. Why else are the Guardian and Daily Mail so different - they operate in the same world and reality? They're all professional palterers, and look aghast at the professional liars that have turned up. Unfortunately we on the receiving end quite rightly see them as all professional misleaders and in the same category.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvXOfq3AB8s