Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
I expect there will be a number of such stories over the next 5 months.
Whether it’s called a customs arrangement or a customs union there will be close alignment on goods. What I’m not sure on is why - when we’re outside CAP - we can’t have our own tariff schedule on Argentine Beef, New Zealand lamb or Aussie/ SA wine. I can only imagine the U.K. is looking to differentiate UK products from extra-EU products for the U.K. market via rules of origin.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
However, it is also clear from every speech made by May since the referendum that we will be leaving the EU and it's deeply unpopular political systems and its obsession with freedom of movement.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
I expect there will be a number of such stories over the next 5 months.
Whether it’s called a customs arrangement or a customs union there will be close alignment on goods. What I’m not sure on is why - when we’re outside CAP - we can’t have our own tariff schedule on Argentine Beef, New Zealand lamb or Aussie/ SA wine. I can only imagine the U.K. is looking to differentiate UK products from extra-EU products for the U.K. market via rules of origin.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
However, it is also clear from every speech made by May since the referendum that we will be leaving the EU and it's deeply unpopular political systems and its obsession with freedom of movement.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
If you buy food at a shop and eat it at home that counts as retail sales.
But if you eat at a restaurant that doesn't count as retail sales but as general service sector activity.
In which case the shift towards eating out during the last couple of decades should have had a dampening effect on retail sales growth.
Is that right ?
Even if it's right, drink has been going the other way, with declining sales in pubs and a significant rise in supermarket (and latterly online) buying for consumption at home.
Not surprised, the price of a pint in a pub is getting ludicrously expensive, some lagers are heading towards £6 a pint, beer is 4.50 to 5.00 in lots of places ... no thanks.. I'll visit my micro-brewery and buy it for half that.
You need to find a Sam Smiths pub.They have them in London.Owned by an eccentric gent in Tadcaster.No music , or sports in his establishments but all his own beer , lager and spirits , really cheap.
The Chandos and Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese are Sam Smith pubs in London.
But the prices are nearer to standard London prices than Yorkshire prices.
Two of my favourite pubs!
(My six year old loves the Cheshire Cheese as well)
That's a different pub! There's three Cheshire cheese pubs in almost the same part of London.
Unless you mean the one on Fleet Street which is "Ye olde". It's a maze on the inside and the entrance is on a random little alley.
One would have expected to run into Robert in there a few years ago...
Was meaning the "Ye Olde".
She's obsessed with the Plague and the Great Fire...
And dreams of working next door at Goldman, right?
As my brother’s heir she has a different path to follow
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
I expect there will be a number of such stories over the next 5 months.
Whether it’s called a customs arrangement or a customs union there will be close alignment on goods. What I’m not sure on is why - when we’re outside CAP - we can’t have our own tariff schedule on Argentine Beef, New Zealand lamb or Aussie/ SA wine. I can only imagine the U.K. is looking to differentiate UK products from extra-EU products for the U.K. market via rules of origin.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
However, it is also clear from every speech made by May since the referendum that we will be leaving the EU and it's deeply unpopular political systems and its obsession with freedom of movement.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
I expect there will be a number of such stories over the next 5 months.
Whether it’s called a customs arrangement or a customs union there will be close alignment on goods. What I’m not sure on is why - when we’re outside CAP - we can’t have our own tariff schedule on Argentine Beef, New Zealand lamb or Aussie/ SA wine. I can only imagine the U.K. is looking to differentiate UK products from extra-EU products for the U.K. market via rules of origin.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
However, it is also clear from every speech made by May since the referendum that we will be leaving the EU and it's deeply unpopular political systems and its obsession with freedom of movement.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
I expect there will be a number of such stories over the next 5 months.
Whether it’s called a customs arrangement or a customs union there will be close alignment on goods. What I’m not sure on is why - when we’re outside CAP - we can’t have our own tariff schedule on Argentine Beef, New Zealand lamb or Aussie/ SA wine. I can only imagine the U.K. is looking to differentiate UK products from extra-EU products for the U.K. market via rules of origin.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
However, it is also clear from every speech made by May since the referendum that we will be leaving the EU and it's deeply unpopular political systems and its obsession with freedom of movement.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Because I don't believe in the project, or want to be in a bloc that doesn't understand business in general or my industry in particular.
You did read the blog post I linked to before replying, didn’t you? I wouldn’t want to think you were the kind of businessman who’s prone to ill-informed knee-jerk responses to some bloke on the Internet.
If the EU isn’t willing to negotiate, why don’t we just leave the customs union and then hold a referendum in Northern Ireland on reunification with the Republic? If they vote Yes - fine. If they vote No, then having border posts is entirely legitimate...
Because it's "utterly unrealistic" to have customs checks in Dover (according to cabinet Brexiteer Chris Grayling). Northern Ireland is only half the story.
Well if that’s the case, why is the discussion even happening at all? We clearly cant leave the customs union...
But we clearly cannot remain in the Customs Union since the EU will not allow it. The only customs union thstvwould be available to us is the Turkey option which allows third party countries to import their goods into our country without customs checks but prevents the same arrangement for our goods.
In the end no matter how much the HoL might want it or pass amendments about it, what they want is not possible.
Third countries might allow UK goods passage on the same terms as EU goods. Most, but not all, countries have that arrangement with Turkey. Our customs union will probably include agriculture.
If only some of those apparently intelligent politicians who spent a large part of their life agitating for Brexit would have had the curiosity to apply their minds as to how we should best go about it.
I thought it was shown it was under a Labour Home Secretary that the Windrush records were destroyed
Destroying the records only matters because of the subsequent legislation requiring the Windrush cohort to prove their residential status. A point that struck me within seconds of May's statement and made me gasp at her cynicism. I flipped from thinking she was okay compared to the alternatives to she should go straight away right then.
It was Ed Milliband’s actions which led to no action on Libya.
...
Far from being niche and far-sighted, Corbyn is absolutely predictable in his views.
->?? Britain did take action in Libya. Shamefully, we supported the action to get rid of Gaddafi after he'd done what we demanded on WMD, thereby sending the message that if you oblige the West they'll stab you when convenient.
I was trolling somewhat, but to be predictable is not the same as not being proven right. I chose those examples because I was mostly on the other side from him, and have come to feel I was mistaken.
If only some of those apparently intelligent politicians who spent a large part of their life agitating for Brexit would have had the curiosity to apply their minds as to how we should best go about it.
If the EU isn’t willing to negotiate, why don’t we just leave the customs union and then hold a referendum in Northern Ireland on reunification with the Republic? If they vote Yes - fine. If they vote No, then having border posts is entirely legitimate...
Because it's "utterly unrealistic" to have customs checks in Dover (according to cabinet Brexiteer Chris Grayling). Northern Ireland is only half the story.
Well if that’s the case, why is the discussion even happening at all? We clearly cant leave the customs union...
But we clearly cannot remain in the Customs Union since the EU will not allow it. The only customs union thstvwould be available to us is the Turkey option which allows third party countries to import their goods into our country without customs checks but prevents the same arrangement for our goods.
In the end no matter how much the HoL might want it or pass amendments about it, what they want is not possible.
Huh? The EU will let us remain in the customs union if we ask won't they? I thought they were arguing that N. Ireland should do so in order to resolve the border. Don't see why they would have a problem with the rest of the UK doing so also.
Strictly it's a new bilateral agreement that includes a customs union. Goods will be traded on the same terms as within the EU, so it comes to the same thing. The difference comes with third countries who will try to negotiate a deal that's weighted more to them, but that applies to any Brexit outcome. The arrangement will probably include us de facto staying in the Single Market on a rule taking basis, for goods but possibly not for services.
Theresa May will probably not be much damaged by Windrush, although she is largely responsible for older people who have lived in the UK almost all their lives being denied cancer treatment and living in terror of being deported to a country they don't know.
If the EU isn’t willing to negotiate, why don’t we just leave the customs union and then hold a referendum in Northern Ireland on reunification with the Republic? If they vote Yes - fine. If they vote No, then having border posts is entirely legitimate...
Because it's "utterly unrealistic" to have customs checks in Dover (according to cabinet Brexiteer Chris Grayling). Northern Ireland is only half the story.
Well if that’s the case, why is the discussion even happening at all? We clearly cant leave the customs union...
But we clearly cannot remain in the Customs Union since the EU will not allow it. The only customs union thstvwould be available to us is the Turkey option which allows third party countries to import their goods into our country without customs checks but prevents the same arrangement for our goods.
In the end no matter how much the HoL might want it or pass amendments about it, what they want is not possible.
Huh? The EU will let us remain in the customs union if we ask won't they? I thought they were arguing that N. Ireland should do so in order to resolve the border. Don't see why they would have a problem with the rest of the UK doing so also.
No because unlike the Single Market, the Customs Union is a specific function of EU membership - with the exception of the usual tiny territories.
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
However, it is also clear from every speech made by May since the referendum that we will be leaving the EU and it's deeply unpopular political systems and its obsession with freedom of movement.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Because I don't believe in the project, or want to be in a bloc that doesn't understand business in general or my industry in particular.
You did read the blog post I linked to before replying, didn’t you? I wouldn’t want to think you were the kind of businessman who’s prone to ill-informed knee-jerk responses to some bloke on the Internet.
I did, and as usual with your links, it accentuates the negative of Brexit without understand external trade or opportunities.
I export largely outside of the EU; yet EU regulations apply to me. There is currently draft legislation from one bloc in the world trying to restrict the flow of books into their customs bloc.
No prizes for guessing which largely unaccountable bureaucracy is doing that...
If the EU isn’t willing to negotiate, why don’t we just leave the customs union and then hold a referendum in Northern Ireland on reunification with the Republic? If they vote Yes - fine. If they vote No, then having border posts is entirely legitimate...
Because it's "utterly unrealistic" to have customs checks in Dover (according to cabinet Brexiteer Chris Grayling). Northern Ireland is only half the story.
Well if that’s the case, why is the discussion even happening at all? We clearly cant leave the customs union...
But we clearly cannot remain in the Customs Union since the EU will not allow it. The only customs union thstvwould be available to us is the Turkey option which allows third party countries to import their goods into our country without customs checks but prevents the same arrangement for our goods.
In the end no matter how much the HoL might want it or pass amendments about it, what they want is not possible.
Huh? The EU will let us remain in the customs union if we ask won't they? I thought they were arguing that N. Ireland should do so in order to resolve the border. Don't see why they would have a problem with the rest of the UK doing so also.
No because unlike the Single Market, the Customs Union is a specific function of EU membership - with the exception of the usual tiny territories.
Careful. I was described as 'unhinged' yesterday for using that fact..
Theresa May will probably not be much damaged by Windrush, although she is largely responsible for older people who have lived in the UK almost all their lives being denied cancer treatment and living in terror of being deported to a country they don't know.
One headline story in a rolling 24 hour news cycle is a trifling matter in terms of its impact. It is the build up of an impression over time that matters. The problem is that this one reinforces the combination of incompetence and lack of thought that have been a hallmark of the Tories since Dave resigned. This one won't get them on its own but if they don't up their game it will push them towards the door.
How does she know Prince Charles was reacting to her 'brown skin'? It could easily have been her stylish dress sense, or anything else to do with her appearance....There may indeed have been a racist in this exchange, it wasn't necessarily Prince Charles....
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Because I don't believe in the project, or want to be in a bloc that doesn't understand business in general or my industry in particular.
You did read the blog post I linked to before replying, didn’t you? I wouldn’t want to think you were the kind of businessman who’s prone to ill-informed knee-jerk responses to some bloke on the Internet.
I did, and as usual with your links, it accentuates the negative of Brexit without understand external trade or opportunities.
I export largely outside of the EU; yet EU regulations apply to me. There is currently draft legislation from one bloc in the world trying to restrict the flow of books into their customs bloc.
No prizes for guessing which largely unaccountable bureaucracy is doing that...
That's a bit mean offering no prizes. Was hoping to win something today.
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
And there will be a deal.
The EU is very good at getting its stories into the British press. (Like with the 100bn plus transition period we were going to pay for... which turned out to be 40bn including the transition period, and with some of the payments not for many decades.)
But, even if there wasn't, a "hard border" does not mean barbed wire, machine guns, passport checks and watch towers. It means that there will be customs posts - often as minimal as a couple of guys in a portacabin - on the main roads. A hard border means it will look like the Swiss/EU border: not that big a deal for 99% of people.
We are back to where we were last Autumn, with the EU feeding negative process stories to their friends in the British media. Let’s see what is actually agreed, rather than what the EU side want us to believe.
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Because I don't believe in the project, or want to be in a bloc that doesn't understand business in general or my industry in particular.
You did read the blog post I linked to before replying, didn’t you? I wouldn’t want to think you were the kind of businessman who’s prone to ill-informed knee-jerk responses to some bloke on the Internet.
I did, and as usual with your links, it accentuates the negative of Brexit without understand external trade or opportunities.
I export largely outside of the EU; yet EU regulations apply to me. There is currently draft legislation from one bloc in the world trying to restrict the flow of books into their customs bloc.
No prizes for guessing which largely unaccountable bureaucracy is doing that...
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
It hasn't been clear from the start that there would be an agreement on the free trade of goods - our market is too important to the EU. It is one of the many reasons why I, as an exporting business owner, didn't worry about voting Leave affecting my business.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Because I don't believe in the project, or want to be in a bloc that doesn't understand business in general or my industry in particular.
You did read the blog post I linked to before replying, didn’t you? I wouldn’t want to think you were the kind of businessman who’s prone to ill-informed knee-jerk responses to some bloke on the Internet.
I did, and as usual with your links, it accentuates the negative of Brexit without understand external trade or opportunities.
I export largely outside of the EU; yet EU regulations apply to me. There is currently draft legislation from one bloc in the world trying to restrict the flow of books into their customs bloc.
No prizes for guessing which largely unaccountable bureaucracy is doing that...
Ah, so you don’t actually make anything.
Drawing in money from overseas only counts if you make 'things', does it? My taxes no longer required, no?
Tennis: a quartet of bets. For those who've forgotten the last time I offered tennis tips, they were patchier than a jester's undergarments so, as always, do at your own risk. Ladbrokes odds include boost. All are for the Monte Carlo Masters quarter finals.
Dimitrov to beat Goffin, 2.05, Ladbrokes. He has a 6-1 winning record (5-1 real terms, one was due to a retirement). Also backed, with Betfair, it going to 3 sets at 2.44. Of the five matches they've completed in three set tournaments, three of them went to the third set.
Thiem to beat Nadal at 6.4, Betfair. Whilst Nadal's rightly favourite, his winning record is 5-2. So the odds are too long, in my view. Every one of those seven encounters was on clay.
Last, and least, in terms of bravery, backed Zverev to beat Gasquet at 1.57, Ladbrokes. He's got a 3-0 winning record.
Anyway, we shall see how that ends up going. Matches commence at 11am.
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Because I don't believe in the project, or want to be in a bloc that doesn't understand business in general or my industry in particular.
You did read the blog post I linked to before replying, didn’t you? I wouldn’t want to think you were the kind of businessman who’s prone to ill-informed knee-jerk responses to some bloke on the Internet.
I did, and as usual with your links, it accentuates the negative of Brexit without understand external trade or opportunities.
I export largely outside of the EU; yet EU regulations apply to me. There is currently draft legislation from one bloc in the world trying to restrict the flow of books into their customs bloc.
No prizes for guessing which largely unaccountable bureaucracy is doing that...
That's a bit mean offering no prizes. Was hoping to win something today.
How does she know Prince Charles was reacting to her 'brown skin'? It could easily have been her stylish dress sense, or anything else to do with her appearance....There may indeed have been a racist in this exchange, it wasn't necessarily Prince Charles....
One other aspect of this story arched my eyebrow. The writer considers the matter of great import and moment. However the story begins with "this week". With social media a constant and immediate presence you can't fart in public without the news spreading like a bad smell within seconds.
We may easily dismiss @TSE comments as the Prince of Wales is a considerable obstruction to his becoming a directly elected dictator.
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
No, and she didn't, that's why she asked. And she was only allowed to ask publicly because the government has worked hard to persuade those whose decision it is
Mr. Bromptonaut, wonderful. A lot of the Remain 'argument' involved pointing at the other side and screaming "Racist!" to which people here who voted Leave disagreed, then when we condemn (as per everyone else) against the Windrush debacle, there's an accusation of being snowflakes.
It's like accusing a man of being a wife-beater, then calling him a pussy for not slapping her about.
[And that's before we get to the fact the decision was made when Labour was in power, and implemented before there was any prospect of an EU referendum, let alone a Leave vote. But let's not allow things like facts of the direction time goes get in the way of rhetorical wretchedness].
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
We cannot be official members of the EU customs union as it would invalidate the DfIT, a corner of May’s Brexit strategy, and all the money/work spent on it over the last 18 months.
Thus, we cannot be in the Customs union, but will probably have one of the closest customs arrangements possible.
As a turkey, which particular aspect of Christmas attracted you to vote for it?
Because I don't believe in the project, or want to be in a bloc that doesn't understand business in general or my industry in particular.
You did read the blog post I linked to before replying, didn’t you? I wouldn’t want to think you were the kind of businessman who’s prone to ill-informed knee-jerk responses to some bloke on the Internet.
I did, and as usual with your links, it accentuates the negative of Brexit without understand external trade or opportunities.
No prizes for guessing which largely unaccountable bureaucracy is doing that...
Ah, so you don’t actually make anything.
Drawing in money from overseas only counts if you make 'things', does it? My taxes no longer required, no?
Not at all. But you hopefully understand that the largest impact of the increased bureaucracy associated with the import and export of goods will be on those businesses that actually manufacture things. You know, the ones we’re trying to encourage to make the economy more balanced. The ones that employ millions of working people. The ones that traditionally funded the Tory party.
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
And there will be a deal.
The EU is very good at getting its stories into the British press. (Like with the 100bn plus transition period we were going to pay for... which turned out to be 40bn including the transition period, and with some of the payments not for many decades.)
But, even if there wasn't, a "hard border" does not mean barbed wire, machine guns, passport checks and watch towers. It means that there will be customs posts - often as minimal as a couple of guys in a portacabin - on the main roads. A hard border means it will look like the Swiss/EU border: not that big a deal for 99% of people.
We are back to where we were last Autumn, with the EU feeding negative process stories to their friends in the British media. Let’s see what is actually agreed, rather than what the EU side want us to believe.
This is really about working through the contradictions of Brexit than it is about deals. We will end up in our final arrangement because the alternatives are unacceptable to us and not because that was the outcome of negotiations. We will probably end up as a client state of the EU because we need that relationship with the EU and we voted against being an active member influencing the decisions that affect us.
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
No, and she didn't, that's why she asked. And she was only allowed to ask publicly because the government has worked hard to persuade those whose decision it is
Having asked the question the answer is pretty much a fait accompli. Without the question having been asked less so!
A lot of the Remain 'argument' involved pointing at the other side and screaming "Racist!" to which people here who voted Leave disagreed, then when we condemn (as per everyone else) against the Windrush debacle, there's an accusation of being snowflakes.
No
Read the Phil Collins piece in the Times.
The "hostile environment" promoted by Brexiteers in the referendum is now being condemned by the same people for Windrush.
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
Absolutely not - I admire and respect the Queen and we will feel her loss when she finally passes but her speech yesterday was a demonstration of arrogant disregard for the Commonwealth and sent out all the wrong messages
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
No, and she didn't, that's why she asked. And she was only allowed to ask publicly because the government has worked hard to persuade those whose decision it is
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
No, and she didn't, that's why she asked. And she was only allowed to ask publicly because the government has worked hard to persuade those whose decision it is
Having asked the question the answer is pretty much a fait accompli. Without the question having been asked less so!
It's still not her just giving it to him. She asked publicly because it seems we worked damn hard to ensure the answer was yes. That we had to work so hard shows it wasn't 'hers to give'.
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
Absolutely not - I admire and respect the Queen and we will feel her loss when she finally passes but her speech yesterday was a demonstration of arrogant disregard for the Commonwealth and sent out all the wrong messages
Why was it arrogant disregard? If they agree to it it has been their choice, how arrogant to suggest they cannot do that just because the queen and the UK lobbied for it too? Are we not allowed to lobby them? Are they incapable of saying no?
If they thought it was arrogant disregard I'd think you could find 1 out of 53 to object, it only takes one appatently.
Pretry arrogant to suggest they cannot make up their own minds (and that our lobbying removes them of that ability).
How does she know Prince Charles was reacting to her 'brown skin'? It could easily have been her stylish dress sense, or anything else to do with her appearance....There may indeed have been a racist in this exchange, it wasn't necessarily Prince Charles....
One other aspect of this story arched my eyebrow. The writer considers the matter of great import and moment. However the story begins with "this week". With social media a constant and immediate presence you can't fart in public without the news spreading like a bad smell within seconds.
The event was on the 17th....as you observe, she's shown remarkable restraint keeping quiet about it for three days.....
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
And there will be a deal.
The EU is very good at getting its stories into the British press. (Like with the 100bn plus transition period we were going to pay for... which turned out to be 40bn including the transition period, and with some of the payments not for many decades.)
But, even if there wasn't, a "hard border" does not mean barbed wire, machine guns, passport checks and watch towers. It means that there will be customs posts - often as minimal as a couple of guys in a portacabin - on the main roads. A hard border means it will look like the Swiss/EU border: not that big a deal for 99% of people.
We are back to where we were last Autumn, with the EU feeding negative process stories to their friends in the British media. Let’s see what is actually agreed, rather than what the EU side want us to believe.
This is really about working through the contradictions of Brexit than it is about deals. We will end up in our final arrangement because the alternatives are unacceptable to us and not because that was the outcome of negotiations. We will probably end up as a client state of the EU because we need that relationship with the EU and we voted against being an active member influencing the decisions that affect us.
You mean that the EU is a prison, or a Hotel California that we can never actually leave?
As I noted earlier, hopefully this is the same sort of scaremongering we saw last year, and that behind the scenes the adults in the room are negotiating in good faith to secure a mutually-agreeable solution.
Prince Charles is partly a product of his generation and the Duke of Edinburgh even more so, I can't imagine Prince William saying that for example and of course Prince Harry has a mixed race fiancee
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
Absolutely not - I admire and respect the Queen and we will feel her loss when she finally passes but her speech yesterday was a demonstration of arrogant disregard for the Commonwealth and sent out all the wrong messages
Why was it arrogant disregard? If they agree to it it has been their choice, how arrogant to suggest they cannot do that just because the queen and the UK lobbied for it too? Are we not allowed to lobby them? Are they incapable of saying no?
If they thought it was arrogant disregard I'd think you could find 1 out of 53 to object, it only takes one appatently.
Pretry arrogant to suggest they cannot make up their own minds (and that our lobbying removes them of that ability).
With all the talk prior to the meeting that it is time to consider a change her pronouncement made that option void and it was almost a proclamation by her.
I just do not accept she should have made it impossible for anyone else to take over
Mr. Bromptonaut, wonderful. A lot of the Remain 'argument' involved pointing at the other side and screaming "Racist!" to which people here who voted Leave disagreed, then when we condemn (as per everyone else) against the Windrush debacle, there's an accusation of being snowflakes.
It's like accusing a man of being a wife-beater, then calling him a pussy for not slapping her about.
[And that's before we get to the fact the decision was made when Labour was in power, and implemented before there was any prospect of an EU referendum, let alone a Leave vote. But let's not allow things like facts of the direction time goes get in the way of rhetorical wretchedness].
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
Absolutely not - I admire and respect the Queen and we will feel her loss when she finally passes but her speech yesterday was a demonstration of arrogant disregard for the Commonwealth and sent out all the wrong messages
Why was it arrogant disregard? If they agree to it it has been their choice, how arrogant to suggest they cannot do that just because the queen and the UK lobbied for it too? Are we not allowed to lobby them? Are they incapable of saying no?
If they thought it was arrogant disregard I'd think you could find 1 out of 53 to object, it only takes one appatently.
Pretry arrogant to suggest they cannot make up their own minds (and that our lobbying removes them of that ability).
With all the talk prior to the meeting that it is time to consider a change her pronouncement made that option void and it was almost a proclamation by her.
I just do not accept she should have made it impossible for anyone else to take over
And I just do not accept that she did. You think the government ok'd that remark before they secured agreement? We shall find out if agreement was reached, but I doubt if it looked like not, that a statement would have been made at all.
You're also fundamentally saying that because they might find it hard to say no, that is the same as it being impossible, and I viscerally disagree with that. Hard decisions does not mean unfairness either.
These are grown up nations, not infants, nations we don't have the ability to just boss around. Suggesting us putting diplomatic pressure on them was an outrage is, to my mind, insulting to the members of the Commonwealth, a suggestion that they are incapable of resisting lobbying.
Diplomats aren't sentimental, a statement from the Queen will not have swayed them I am sure. More likely that was just the public culmination of them having given the nod already
How does she know Prince Charles was reacting to her 'brown skin'? It could easily have been her stylish dress sense, or anything else to do with her appearance....There may indeed have been a racist in this exchange, it wasn't necessarily Prince Charles....
One other aspect of this story arched my eyebrow. The writer considers the matter of great import and moment. However the story begins with "this week". With social media a constant and immediate presence you can't fart in public without the news spreading like a bad smell within seconds.
The event was on the 17th....as you observe, she's shown remarkable restraint keeping quiet about it for three days.....
Prince Charles at reception marking the Commonwealth, I would suggest he would ask anyone he met where they came from. Plenty of black, white, brown Commonwealth members.
How does she know Prince Charles was reacting to her 'brown skin'? It could easily have been her stylish dress sense, or anything else to do with her appearance....There may indeed have been a racist in this exchange, it wasn't necessarily Prince Charles....
Yes most likely a comment on the poor dress sense of Mancunians....
Are some Remainers still bitter that the majority didn't realise how important they are?
Get over yourselves, chaps and chapesses. It's your overblown sense of entitlement that's causing your angst
You're beginning to remind me of those lycra-clad loons who ride overpriced racing cycles. You know who I mean - the ones who ride two or three abreast when it's too busy to overtake, the ones who head for the inside lane at red traffic lights and then pedal straight ahead when much of the traffic wants to turn left. They own the road, you know.
I'm struggling to find a kinder simile but it's difficult when they have such an inflated view of their own importance.
Play the game, ride a green carrier bike with a set of solid tyres and a comfy seat. Go with the traffic, not against it.
The trouble with this explanation is that the approach began under Labour Home Secretaries. In 2007 John Reid said ‘living and working here illegally should become even more uncomfortable and constrained’.
Under Alan Johnson, the Border Agency said it would ‘make the UK a HOSTILE environment’ for illegal immigrants.
Possibly Charlie was making a feeble joke about Mancunians never seeing the sun? Be fair, it's probably difficult making original pleasantries when you meet a thousand different people every month.
He's never been a comedian at the best of times, even if his hangers-on probably laugh at everything.
Absolutely, but how do you propose we do that? He's already been handed the gig by his Mummy. I rate the Queen, but was the role hers to give?
Absolutely not - I admire and respect the Queen and we will feel her loss when she finally passes but her speech yesterday was a demonstration of arrogant disregard for the Commonwealth and sent out all the wrong messages
Why was it arrogant disregard? If they agree to it it has been their choice, how arrogant to suggest they cannot do that just because the queen and the UK lobbied for it too? Are we not allowed to lobby them? Are they incapable of saying no?
If they thought it was arrogant disregard I'd think you could find 1 out of 53 to object, it only takes one appatently.
Pretry arrogant to suggest they cannot make up their own minds (and that our lobbying removes them of that ability).
With all the talk prior to the meeting that it is time to consider a change her pronouncement made that option void and it was almost a proclamation by her.
I just do not accept she should have made it impossible for anyone else to take over
And I just do not accept that she did. You think the government ok'd that remark before they secured agreement? We shall find out if agreement was reached, but I doubt if it looked like not, that a statement would have been made at all.
You're also fundamentally saying that because they might find it hard to say no, that is the same as it being impossible, and I viscerally disagree with that. Hard decisions does not mean unfairness either.
These are grown up nations, not infants, nations we don't have the ability to just boss around. Suggesting us putting diplomatic pressure on them was an outrage is, to my mind, insulting to the members of the Commonwealth, a suggestion that they are incapable of resisting lobbying.
Diplomats aren't sentimental, a statement from the Queen will not have swayed them I am sure. More likely that was just the public culmination of them having given the nod already
I think you may well be right but it just did not look good
The trouble with this explanation is that the approach began under Labour Home Secretaries. In 2007 John Reid said ‘living and working here illegally should become even more uncomfortable and constrained’.
Under Alan Johnson, the Border Agency said it would ‘make the UK a HOSTILE environment’ for illegal immigrants.
So HOSTILE was first used by Labour
No spectacle like the British in one of their periodic fits of morality.
There’s nothing wrong with a HOSTILE environment for ILLEGAL immigrants.
There’s everything wrong with an INCOMPETENT and UNCARING Home Office which doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to deal humanely with LEGAL migrants.
Are some Remainers still bitter that the majority didn't realise how important they are?
Get over yourselves, chaps and chapesses. It's your overblown sense of entitlement that's causing your angst
You're beginning to remind me of those lycra-clad loons who ride overpriced racing cycles. You know who I mean - the ones who ride two or three abreast when it's too busy to overtake, the ones who head for the inside lane at red traffic lights and then pedal straight ahead when much of the traffic wants to turn left. They own the road, you know.
I'm struggling to find a kinder simile but it's difficult when they have such an inflated view of their own importance.
Play the game, ride a green carrier bike with a set of solid tyres and a comfy seat. Go with the traffic, not against it.
On the other hand it could be that we don't like marching in step with a bunch of racist morons who happen-by a very small number-to be in a majority.
Mr. NorthWales, as well as the nuclear result of us remaining, there's embedding for the long-term the poisonous atmosphere if we end up within the customs union, which is utterly indefensible.
We'll see how things go. And may discover how Grieve's 'meaningful vote' turns out.
Edited extra bit: as I've mentioned before, it does look like some want us to have the weakest result possible, the worst agreement so that they can then ask us to remain after all, having negotiated terms that are neither leaving nor as good (in their eyes) as the status quo. Could be a recipe for an extremely ugly situation.
Another good night for the Lib Dems taking two seats off the conservatives.
I believe the elections in a fortnight will result in the following.
A really good night for labour in London
A very good night for the Lib Dems
A poor night for the conservatives and labour outside London.
A vote for NOTA and a plague on all your houses
Local byelections have been completely discredited as a predictive tool.
And a very good night for the LibDems would mean them getting a NEV of at least 25% - are you predicting that ?
Not into that expertise but the trend is to the Lib Dems in locals.
Maybe a good night for the Lib Dems methinks
In late 2016 and early 2017 the LDs won scores of council by elections by throwing the kitchen sink at them.
Come the main 2017 county council elections the LDs lost a net 42 seats as they had to spread their resources and the picture more reflected national polls
The trouble with this explanation is that the approach began under Labour Home Secretaries. In 2007 John Reid said ‘living and working here illegally should become even more uncomfortable and constrained’.
Under Alan Johnson, the Border Agency said it would ‘make the UK a HOSTILE environment’ for illegal immigrants.
So HOSTILE was first used by Labour
No spectacle like the British in one of their periodic fits of morality.
There’s nothing wrong with a HOSTILE environment for ILLEGAL immigrants.
There’s everything wrong with an INCOMPETENT and UNCARING Home Office which doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to deal humanely with LEGAL migrants.
Agreed but people like Lord Kerslake referring to an hostile environment and Nazi style UK demeans the argument which quite rightly needs to focus on righting the dreadful wrongs on Windrush
More positive report this morning of the Home Office granting residency quickly to those phoning in on the hotline and last night Sky reported on 2 Caribbean ladies who were delighted the Home office had granted them UK citizenship after having been in limbo over many years, one since 1998
If the Home Office resolve all these issues quickly and fairly, Amber Rudd may redeem her position
The trouble with this explanation is that the approach began under Labour Home Secretaries. In 2007 John Reid said ‘living and working here illegally should become even more uncomfortable and constrained’.
Under Alan Johnson, the Border Agency said it would ‘make the UK a HOSTILE environment’ for illegal immigrants.
So HOSTILE was first used by Labour
No spectacle like the British in one of their periodic fits of morality.
There’s nothing wrong with a HOSTILE environment for ILLEGAL immigrants.
There’s everything wrong with an INCOMPETENT and UNCARING Home Office which doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to deal humanely with LEGAL migrants.
An incompetent and uncaring Home Office is a bug, not a feature, which is not the line others have been running
Are some Remainers still bitter that the majority didn't realise how important they are?
Get over yourselves, chaps and chapesses. It's your overblown sense of entitlement that's causing your angst
You're beginning to remind me of those lycra-clad loons who ride overpriced racing cycles. You know who I mean - the ones who ride two or three abreast when it's too busy to overtake, the ones who head for the inside lane at red traffic lights and then pedal straight ahead when much of the traffic wants to turn left. They own the road, you know.
I'm struggling to find a kinder simile but it's difficult when they have such an inflated view of their own importance.
Play the game, ride a green carrier bike with a set of solid tyres and a comfy seat. Go with the traffic, not against it.
On the other hand it could be that we don't like marching in step with a bunch of racist morons who happen-by a very small number-to be in a majority.
Back to the insults I see.
One day you'll accept that your EU hobby horse wasn't wanted by the British voters.
My fear is the consequences of the EU politicizing the Irish border.
It's a consequence of Brexit.
The result of a democratic vote has to be respected and the EU will if they carry on like this see a backlash against them, not TM, with a hard Brexit becoming more likely.
Another good night for the Lib Dems taking two seats off the conservatives.
I believe the elections in a fortnight will result in the following.
A really good night for labour in London
A very good night for the Lib Dems
A poor night for the conservatives and labour outside London.
A vote for NOTA and a plague on all your houses
Local byelections have been completely discredited as a predictive tool.
And a very good night for the LibDems would mean them getting a NEV of at least 25% - are you predicting that ?
Not into that expertise but the trend is to the Lib Dems in locals.
Maybe a good night for the Lib Dems methinks
In late 2016 and early 2017 the LDs won scores of council by elections by throwing the kitchen sink at them.
Come the main 2017 county council elections the LDs lost a net 42 seats as they had to spread their resources and the picture more reflected national polls
Agreed.
After May, I have a feeling that GDPR might hit LDs more than Labour and Cons, too, given what I've heard about their reliance on phone banking.
How about: Customs union with U.K. aligning to EU regulatory standards (hence no hard border in Ireland or at Dover) Preference for EU migrants over others in exchange for financial market access for U.K. firms and U.K. piggy-backing on EU trade deals Cut in U.K. financial contribution U.K. membership of key agencies (EASA etc.)
This is the result we were always going to get without decapitating the Remainer establishment, as Cummings intended.
My fear is the consequences of the EU politicizing the Irish border.
It's a consequence of Brexit.
The result of a democratic vote has to be respected and the EU will if they carry on like this see a backlash against them, not TM, with a hard Brexit becoming more likely.
It is just crazy and cool heads need to prevail
The EU is entitled to negotiate as it sees fit. (Whether it is wise to do so is a different matter.) Leavers can't complain if they think that the EU is playing hardball.
Another good night for the Lib Dems taking two seats off the conservatives.
I believe the elections in a fortnight will result in the following.
A really good night for labour in London
A very good night for the Lib Dems
A poor night for the conservatives and labour outside London.
A vote for NOTA and a plague on all your houses
Local byelections have been completely discredited as a predictive tool.
And a very good night for the LibDems would mean them getting a NEV of at least 25% - are you predicting that ?
Not into that expertise but the trend is to the Lib Dems in locals.
Maybe a good night for the Lib Dems methinks
In late 2016 and early 2017 the LDs won scores of council by elections by throwing the kitchen sink at them.
Come the main 2017 county council elections the LDs lost a net 42 seats as they had to spread their resources and the picture more reflected national polls
I absolutely love reading your knowledge on these matters. It does you great credit and is very useful information
You don't think that labelling millions of people you've never met as 'racist morons' might not be just a tad elitist? Most people tend to regard themselves as being cleverer than average despite the statistical absurdity.
It does seem to be a Remainer speciality, but perhaps I shouldn't stereotype?
My fear is the consequences of the EU politicizing the Irish border.
It's a consequence of Brexit.
The result of a democratic vote has to be respected and the EU will if they carry on like this see a backlash against them, not TM, with a hard Brexit becoming more likely.
It's no skin off the EU's dick if there is a "backlash". We're leaving so why would they give a fuck what anybody in the UK thinks of them?
My fear is the consequences of the EU politicizing the Irish border.
It's a consequence of Brexit.
The result of a democratic vote has to be respected and the EU will if they carry on like this see a backlash against them, not TM, with a hard Brexit becoming more likely.
It is just crazy and cool heads need to prevail
The EU is entitled to negotiate as it sees fit. (Whether it is wise to do so is a different matter.) Leavers can't complain if they think that the EU is playing hardball.
Yes but that hardball becomes downright dangerous and no one wins including tens of thousands of lost EU jobs
How about: Customs union with U.K. aligning to EU regulatory standards (hence no hard border in Ireland or at Dover) Preference for EU migrants over others in exchange for financial market access for U.K. firms and U.K. piggy-backing on EU trade deals Cut in U.K. financial contribution U.K. membership of key agencies (EASA etc.)
This is the result we were always going to get without decapitating the Remainer establishment, as Cummings intended.
It was Ed Milliband’s actions which led to no action on Libya.
...
Far from being niche and far-sighted, Corbyn is absolutely predictable in his views.
->?? Britain did take action in Libya. Shamefully, we supported the action to get rid of Gaddafi after he'd done what we demanded on WMD, thereby sending the message that if you oblige the West they'll stab you when convenient.
I was trolling somewhat, but to be predictable is not the same as not being proven right. I chose those examples because I was mostly on the other side from him, and have come to feel I was mistaken.
I was thinking about the proposed second intervention in Libya.
My fear is the consequences of the EU politicizing the Irish border.
It's a consequence of Brexit.
The result of a democratic vote has to be respected and the EU will if they carry on like this see a backlash against them, not TM, with a hard Brexit becoming more likely.
It's no skin off the EU's dick if there is a "backlash". We're leaving so why would they give a fuck what anybody in the UK thinks of them?
Brilliant. When what actually you mean is "Stopping Brexit leads to rioting in the streets."
It won't. But there would be a seething disquiet leading to disillusionment and genuine anger for some. But most politicians are acutely aware of this. Only those who don't want to see ignore this.
Mr Meeks is at least realistic. He understands it has to run its course. So you can choose to work with it, or work against it - the spoilt child syndrome.
My fear is the consequences of the EU politicizing the Irish border.
It's a consequence of Brexit.
The result of a democratic vote has to be respected and the EU will if they carry on like this see a backlash against them, not TM, with a hard Brexit becoming more likely.
It is just crazy and cool heads need to prevail
The EU is entitled to negotiate as it sees fit. (Whether it is wise to do so is a different matter.) Leavers can't complain if they think that the EU is playing hardball.
Yes but that hardball becomes downright dangerous and no one wins including tens of thousands of lost EU jobs
Still waiting for those German car companies and Italian prosecco producers to ride to our rescue?
But we clearly cannot remain in the Customs Union since the EU will not allow it. The only customs union thstvwould be available to us is the Turkey option which allows third party countries to import their goods into our country without customs checks but prevents the same arrangement for our goods.
In the end no matter how much the HoL might want it or pass amendments about it, what they want is not possible.
Huh? The EU will let us remain in the customs union if we ask won't they? I thought they were arguing that N. Ireland should do so in order to resolve the border. Don't see why they would have a problem with the rest of the UK doing so also.
No because unlike the Single Market, the Customs Union is a specific function of EU membership - with the exception of the usual tiny territories.
As Barnier said - 'everything is possible' and 'If the UK wanted to change its red lines, we would therefore change ours'. If both sides agree - I see no reason why we couldn't stay in the customs union. Indeed the EU are likely to be open to this.
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Well yes, but in that case we get a no deal brexit, which we're rather keen to avoid
Except if we get a no deal Brexit then the Irish would be desperate for a deal. As would we.
This is a convoluted game of the prisoners dilemma. Both the Irish and the British want a deal. Both the Irish and the British want no hard border. A deal is thus eminently agreeable. The question is simply how it is reached.
And there will be a deal.
The EU is very good at getting its stories into the British press. (Like with the 100bn plus transition period we were going to pay for... which turned out to be 40bn including the transition period, and with some of the payments not for many decades.)
But, even if there wasn't, a "hard border" does not mean barbed wire, machine guns, passport checks and watch towers. It means that there will be customs posts - often as minimal as a couple of guys in a portacabin - on the main roads. A hard border means it will look like the Swiss/EU border: not that big a deal for 99% of people.
We are back to where we were last Autumn, with the EU feeding negative process stories to their friends in the British media. Let’s see what is actually agreed, rather than what the EU side want us to believe.
This is really about working through the contradictions of Brexit than it is about deals. We will end up in our final arrangement because the alternatives are unacceptable to us and not because that was the outcome of negotiations. We will probably end up as a client state of the EU because we need that relationship with the EU and we voted against being an active member influencing the decisions that affect us.
We voted against the illusion of being able to influence decisions.
Comments
https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2018/04/18/why-is-the-eu-in-no-hurry-for-a-trade-deal/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5631709/Home-Office-staff-predicted-toughening-immigration-laws-hit-older-migrants.html
The Home Office was warned by its own officials that a toughening up of immigration laws could hit older immigrants such as the Windrush generation, it emerged last night.
The warning came in an internal assessment on the impact of changes to the 'right to rent' scheme, introduced in 2014....
->?? Britain did take action in Libya. Shamefully, we supported the action to get rid of Gaddafi after he'd done what we demanded on WMD, thereby sending the message that if you oblige the West they'll stab you when convenient.
I was trolling somewhat, but to be predictable is not the same as not being proven right. I chose those examples because I was mostly on the other side from him, and have come to feel I was mistaken.
How vile from Prince Charles.
Stop this bigot from becoming our next unelected ruler and Head of the Commonwealth. Take back control people.
https://twitter.com/anitasethi/status/987038704739987456?s=21
I export largely outside of the EU; yet EU regulations apply to me. There is currently draft legislation from one bloc in the world trying to restrict the flow of books into their customs bloc.
No prizes for guessing which largely unaccountable bureaucracy is doing that...
Also it is a really loathsome bit of legislation.
Was hoping to win something today.
Betting PostTennis: a quartet of bets. For those who've forgotten the last time I offered tennis tips, they were patchier than a jester's undergarments so, as always, do at your own risk. Ladbrokes odds include boost. All are for the Monte Carlo Masters quarter finals.
Dimitrov to beat Goffin, 2.05, Ladbrokes. He has a 6-1 winning record (5-1 real terms, one was due to a retirement). Also backed, with Betfair, it going to 3 sets at 2.44. Of the five matches they've completed in three set tournaments, three of them went to the third set.
Thiem to beat Nadal at 6.4, Betfair. Whilst Nadal's rightly favourite, his winning record is 5-2. So the odds are too long, in my view. Every one of those seven encounters was on clay.
Last, and least, in terms of bravery, backed Zverev to beat Gasquet at 1.57, Ladbrokes. He's got a 3-0 winning record.
Anyway, we shall see how that ends up going. Matches commence at 11am.
We may easily dismiss @TSE comments as the Prince of Wales is a considerable obstruction to his becoming a directly elected dictator.
It's like accusing a man of being a wife-beater, then calling him a pussy for not slapping her about.
[And that's before we get to the fact the decision was made when Labour was in power, and implemented before there was any prospect of an EU referendum, let alone a Leave vote. But let's not allow things like facts of the direction time goes get in the way of rhetorical wretchedness].
Read the Phil Collins piece in the Times.
The "hostile environment" promoted by Brexiteers in the referendum is now being condemned by the same people for Windrush.
Hypocrisy is the charge
If they thought it was arrogant disregard I'd think you could find 1 out of 53 to object, it only takes one appatently.
Pretry arrogant to suggest they cannot make up their own minds (and that our lobbying removes them of that ability).
https://twitter.com/anitasethi/status/986358998239760384
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/987224347596263426
As I noted earlier, hopefully this is the same sort of scaremongering we saw last year, and that behind the scenes the adults in the room are negotiating in good faith to secure a mutually-agreeable solution.
I just do not accept she should have made it impossible for anyone else to take over
I believe the elections in a fortnight will result in the following.
A really good night for labour in London
A very good night for the Lib Dems
A poor night for the conservatives and labour outside London.
A vote for NOTA and a plague on all your houses
You're also fundamentally saying that because they might find it hard to say no, that is the same as it being impossible, and I viscerally disagree with that. Hard decisions does not mean unfairness either.
These are grown up nations, not infants, nations we don't have the ability to just boss around. Suggesting us putting diplomatic pressure on them was an outrage is, to my mind, insulting to the members of the Commonwealth, a suggestion that they are incapable of resisting lobbying.
Diplomats aren't sentimental, a statement from the Queen will not have swayed them I am sure. More likely that was just the public culmination of them having given the nod already
And a very good night for the LibDems would mean them getting a NEV of at least 25% - are you predicting that ?
Get over yourselves, chaps and chapesses. It's your overblown sense of entitlement that's causing your angst
You're beginning to remind me of those lycra-clad loons who ride overpriced racing cycles. You know who I mean - the ones who ride two or three abreast when it's too busy to overtake, the ones who head for the inside lane at red traffic lights and then pedal straight ahead when much of the traffic wants to turn left. They own the road, you know.
I'm struggling to find a kinder simile but it's difficult when they have such an inflated view of their own importance.
Play the game, ride a green carrier bike with a set of solid tyres and a comfy seat. Go with the traffic, not against it.
Maybe a good night for the Lib Dems methinks
Labour want to blame Tory”callousness”
The trouble with this explanation is that the approach began under Labour Home Secretaries.
In 2007 John Reid said ‘living and working here illegally should become even more uncomfortable and constrained’.
Under Alan Johnson, the Border Agency said it would ‘make the UK a HOSTILE environment’ for illegal immigrants.
So HOSTILE was first used by Labour
He's never been a comedian at the best of times, even if his hangers-on probably laugh at everything.
There’s nothing wrong with a HOSTILE environment for ILLEGAL immigrants.
There’s everything wrong with an INCOMPETENT and UNCARING Home Office which doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to deal humanely with LEGAL migrants.
This could go horribly wrong in many ways and not just over tensions in Ireland
Someone said to me last night that if the EU and their Associates in the UK derail Brexit there will be near insurrection
We'll see how things go. And may discover how Grieve's 'meaningful vote' turns out.
Edited extra bit: as I've mentioned before, it does look like some want us to have the weakest result possible, the worst agreement so that they can then ask us to remain after all, having negotiated terms that are neither leaving nor as good (in their eyes) as the status quo. Could be a recipe for an extremely ugly situation.
"Well, you don't look like it!"
Come the main 2017 county council elections the LDs lost a net 42 seats as they had to spread their resources and the picture more reflected national polls
More positive report this morning of the Home Office granting residency quickly to those phoning in on the hotline and last night Sky reported on 2 Caribbean ladies who were delighted the Home office had granted them UK citizenship after having been in limbo over many years, one since 1998
If the Home Office resolve all these issues quickly and fairly, Amber Rudd may redeem her position
One day you'll accept that your EU hobby horse wasn't wanted by the British voters.
It is just crazy and cool heads need to prevail
After May, I have a feeling that GDPR might hit LDs more than Labour and Cons, too, given what I've heard about their reliance on phone banking.
Customs union with U.K. aligning to EU regulatory standards (hence no hard border in Ireland or at Dover)
Preference for EU migrants over others in exchange for financial market access for U.K. firms and U.K. piggy-backing on EU trade deals
Cut in U.K. financial contribution
U.K. membership of key agencies (EASA etc.)
This is the result we were always going to get without decapitating the Remainer establishment, as Cummings intended.
You don't think that labelling millions of people you've never met as 'racist morons' might not be just a tad elitist? Most people tend to regard themselves as being cleverer than average despite the statistical absurdity.
It does seem to be a Remainer speciality, but perhaps I shouldn't stereotype?
If only somebody had warned this might be a bad idea
We voted for Brexit. It's shit.
If that leads to rioting in the streets, democracy has prevailed.
"Brexit leads to rioting in the streets... "
Brilliant. When what actually you mean is "Stopping Brexit leads to rioting in the streets."
It won't. But there would be a seething disquiet leading to disillusionment and genuine anger for some. But most politicians are acutely aware of this. Only those who don't want to see ignore this.
Mr Meeks is at least realistic. He understands it has to run its course. So you can choose to work with it, or work against it - the spoilt child syndrome.
NEW THREAD
The Conservativewoman website has just paid a tribute to him by republishing his “coming out” piece on the Donald from May 2016.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/a-tribute-to-dale-winton-who-got-trump-right/
If both sides agree - I see no reason why we couldn't stay in the customs union.
Indeed the EU are likely to be open to this.