'Mitting J was satisfied that, on the balance of probabilities, Mr Mitchell did say the words alleged or words so close as to amount to the same, including the word “pleb”.'
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Not sure - May offers immediate help and will address the problem but some in the media are trying to turn this into a race issue which it is not and it must be remembered that the Country wants illegal immigration stopping which was the reason for a tough policy.
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
Unbelievably scathing attack from Fraser Nelson in the Spectator on TMay and Tory policy on Brexit. "Mrs May is no xenophobe but she is using Iron Lady tactics at a time when warmth, accommodation and communication are needed. "
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
You should have just seen C4 News just now. Unfortunately, for TMay this one ain't going away anytime soon.
Not sure - May offers immediate help and will address the problem but some in the media are trying to turn this into a race issue which it is not and it must be remembered that the Country wants illegal immigration stopping which was the reason for a tough policy.
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Immigration should work in the same way as visitors / workers to your home.
Only those asked should be there but when they are they should be well treated.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
'Mitting J was satisfied that, on the balance of probabilities, Mr Mitchell did say the words alleged or words so close as to amount to the same, including the word “pleb”.'
Didn't it turn out Andrew Mitchell actually did say "pleb" in the end?
That on the balance of probabilities he said it.
Not that it was the most troubling aspect of the story, not by miles, and yet a guy being an arsehole, probably, somehow excused outright criminality from at least one serving officer, and a bunch of others going on a political campaign, including lying, in order to get that arsehole sacked.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative.
Agreed. It was a misstep from Corbyn, as it punctured his ability to put together a series of more devastating remarks that would reach beyond his supporters, but the overall story is still there and not looking very good.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative.
Agreed. It was a misstep from Corbyn, as it punctured his ability to put together a series of more devastating remarks that would reach beyond his supporters, but the overall story is still there and not looking very good.
It is dreadful but TM is acting unlike Corbyn following that toxic but uplifting debate in the HOC on anti semitism in labour
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative.
Agreed. It was a misstep from Corbyn, as it punctured his ability to put together a series of more devastating remarks that would reach beyond his supporters, but the overall story is still there and not looking very good.
It is dreadful but TM is acting unlike Corbyn following that toxic but uplifting debate in the HOC on anti semitism in labour
If she can successfully act, then damage will have been mitigated somewhat, I am sure.
If you buy food at a shop and eat it at home that counts as retail sales.
But if you eat at a restaurant that doesn't count as retail sales but as general service sector activity.
In which case the shift towards eating out during the last couple of decades should have had a dampening effect on retail sales growth.
Is that right ?
Even if it's right, drink has been going the other way, with declining sales in pubs and a significant rise in supermarket (and latterly online) buying for consumption at home.
Not surprised, the price of a pint in a pub is getting ludicrously expensive, some lagers are heading towards £6 a pint, beer is 4.50 to 5.00 in lots of places ... no thanks.. I'll visit my micro-brewery and buy it for half that.
You need to find a Sam Smiths pub.They have them in London.Owned by an eccentric gent in Tadcaster.No music , or sports in his establishments but all his own beer , lager and spirits , really cheap.
The Chandos and Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese are Sam Smith pubs in London.
But the prices are nearer to standard London prices than Yorkshire prices.
Two of my favourite pubs!
(My six year old loves the Cheshire Cheese as well)
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
Yes, the recent antisemitism scandal amongst other things is probably reinforcing people’s already negative impressions about Labour. IIRC correctly you voted for Tony Blair, tbh I don’t see Labour electing a leader like him anytime soon. Blair himself these days is pretty unpopular anyway.
Vanilla is acting strangely on my PC with Windows 7. To get the full scroll of comments I must be signed in. For me this is annoying. And if this problem affects many casual non-member browsers then OGH is not getting his mony's worth.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative.
Agreed. It was a misstep from Corbyn, as it punctured his ability to put together a series of more devastating remarks that would reach beyond his supporters, but the overall story is still there and not looking very good.
It is dreadful but TM is acting unlike Corbyn following that toxic but uplifting debate in the HOC on anti semitism in labour
If she can successfully act, then damage will have been mitigated somewhat, I am sure.
She really has no choice and she and Rudd need to have answers on all those being chased by the media.
If you buy food at a shop and eat it at home that counts as retail sales.
But if you eat at a restaurant that doesn't count as retail sales but as general service sector activity.
In which case the shift towards eating out during the last couple of decades should have had a dampening effect on retail sales growth.
Is that right ?
Even if it's right, drink has been going the other way, with declining sales in pubs and a significant rise in supermarket (and latterly online) buying for consumption at home.
Not surprised, the price of a pint in a pub is getting ludicrously expensive, some lagers are heading towards £6 a pint, beer is 4.50 to 5.00 in lots of places ... no thanks.. I'll visit my micro-brewery and buy it for half that.
You need to find a Sam Smiths pub.They have them in London.Owned by an eccentric gent in Tadcaster.No music , or sports in his establishments but all his own beer , lager and spirits , really cheap.
The Chandos and Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese are Sam Smith pubs in London.
But the prices are nearer to standard London prices than Yorkshire prices.
Two of my favourite pubs!
(My six year old loves the Cheshire Cheese as well)
It's certainly not the bargain it once was. I think you can still get a pint of very weak Alpine lager for £2-£3, but most people seem to go for the more expensive wheat beers. They are generally nice traditional pubs, friendly places, no blaring music so a good place to chat.
If you buy food at a shop and eat it at home that counts as retail sales.
But if you eat at a restaurant that doesn't count as retail sales but as general service sector activity.
In which case the shift towards eating out during the last couple of decades should have had a dampening effect on retail sales growth.
Is that right ?
Even if it's right, drink has been going the other way, with declining sales in pubs and a significant rise in supermarket (and latterly online) buying for consumption at home.
Not surprised, the price of a pint in a pub is getting ludicrously expensive, some lagers are heading towards £6 a pint, beer is 4.50 to 5.00 in lots of places ... no thanks.. I'll visit my micro-brewery and buy it for half that.
You need to find a Sam Smiths pub.They have them in London.Owned by an eccentric gent in Tadcaster.No music , or sports in his establishments but all his own beer , lager and spirits , really cheap.
The Chandos and Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese are Sam Smith pubs in London.
But the prices are nearer to standard London prices than Yorkshire prices.
Two of my favourite pubs!
(My six year old loves the Cheshire Cheese as well)
That's a different pub! There's three Cheshire cheese pubs in almost the same part of London.
Unless you mean the one on Fleet Street which is "Ye olde". It's a maze on the inside and the entrance is on a random little alley.
One would have expected to run into Robert in there a few years ago...
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
I thought you were a Tory party member?
I am and loyal but I voted for Blair twice. I support TM as you know and despite this dreadful scandal she is the best person for our Country at this time.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
You should have just seen C4 News just now. Unfortunately, for TMay this one ain't going away anytime soon.
Not sure - May offers immediate help and will address the problem but some in the media are trying to turn this into a race issue which it is not and it must be remembered that the Country wants illegal immigration stopping which was the reason for a tough policy.
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Pretty much. The public are against immigration in principle but not against the actual immigrants themselves. A very reasonable position. But very difficult to turn into an actual policy.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
Yes, the recent antisemitism scandal amongst other things is probably reinforcing people’s already negative impressions about Labour. IIRC correctly you voted for Tony Blair, tbh I don’t see Labour electing a leader like him anytime soon. Blair himself these days is pretty unpopular anyway.
I only voted twice not the third time. He seems to have lost his marbles now
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated...
It does colour the narrative though, as it demonstrates the previous Labour government had very similar attitudes on immigration for similarly self-serving reasons...
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
You should have just seen C4 News just now. Unfortunately, for TMay this one ain't going away anytime soon.
Not sure - May offers immediate help and will address the problem but some in the media are trying to turn this into a race issue which it is not and it must be remembered that the Country wants illegal immigration stopping which was the reason for a tough policy.
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Pretty much. The public are against immigration in principle but not against the actual immigrants themselves. A very reasonable position. But very difficult to turn into an actual policy.
So do you think the government should actually be deporting the Windrush generation?
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
The point about Kerslakes intervention, as well as the intervention by the civil service unions today, is that the responsibility for this lies squarely with Ministers. Or rather, a proportion of Ministers.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
The point about Kerslakes intervention, as well as the intervention by the civil service unions today, is that the responsibility for this lies squarely with Ministers. Or rather, a proportion of Ministers.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
The point about Kerslakes intervention, as well as the intervention by the civil service unions today, is that the responsibility for this lies squarely with Ministers. Or rather, a proportion of Ministers.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated...
It does colour the narrative though, as it demonstrates the previous Labour government had very similar attitudes on immigration for similarly self-serving reasons...
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
Labour even had it's own red 'control immigration mug' in 2015.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
You should have just seen C4 News just now. Unfortunately, for TMay this one ain't going away anytime soon.
Not sure - May offers immediate help and will address the problem but some in the media are trying to turn this into a race issue which it is not and it must be remembered that the Country wants illegal immigration stopping which was the reason for a tough policy.
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Pretty much. The public are against immigration in principle but not against the actual immigrants themselves. A very reasonable position. But very difficult to turn into an actual policy.
So do you think the government should actually be deporting the Windrush generation?
Certainly not. The whole Windrush business is disgraceful and May should resign over it.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated...
It does colour the narrative though, as it demonstrates the previous Labour government had very similar attitudes on immigration for similarly self-serving reasons...
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
Not really, it wasn’t ministers who took the decision (which was made clear on both BBC and ITV).
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
The point about Kerslakes intervention, as well as the intervention by the civil service unions today, is that the responsibility for this lies squarely with Ministers. Or rather, a proportion of Ministers.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
And had he refrained from the ridiculous Nazi comments, I,would have been in absolute agreement with that.
I think if you listen to what he actually says, he is attributing the "nazi" comparison to an undisclosed minister, at the time the policy was being formed. It isn't his own opinion.
I think if you listen to what he actually says, he is attributing the "nazi" comparison to an undisclosed minister, at the time the policy was being formed. It isn't his own opinion.
I think that makes it worse. He should grow a pair and name the minister. And as for that minister, they should have resigned if they were so appalled by the policy.
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
The point about Kerslakes intervention, as well as the intervention by the civil service unions today, is that the responsibility for this lies squarely with Ministers. Or rather, a proportion of Ministers.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated...
It does colour the narrative though, as it demonstrates the previous Labour government had very similar attitudes on immigration for similarly self-serving reasons...
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
Not really, it wasn’t ministers who took the decision (which was made clear on both BBC and ITV).
The point is about the increasing scale of the impact being uncovered. Hundreds of ordinary hard-working British people have had their lives turned upside down by the Home Office in some of the most distressing ways imaginable.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
The point about Kerslakes intervention, as well as the intervention by the civil service unions today, is that the responsibility for this lies squarely with Ministers. Or rather, a proportion of Ministers.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
And had he refrained from the ridiculous Nazi comments, I,would have been in absolute agreement with that.
I think if you listen to what he actually says, he is attributing the "nazi" comparison to an undisclosed minister, at the time the policy was being formed. It isn't his own opinion.
Repeating it really wasn’t necessary, and demonstrates his naïveté.
Absolutely agree snd it is wrong but in these circumstances the apology was right and the immediate attention to it is also right and tonight it has been confirmed compensation will be paid.
Labours problem is that the public see them, and Corbyn in particular, as wanting open borders and this is starkly against the mood of the nation that wants tough action against illegal immigration which this policy was designed to address
The public wants two different things at the same time, doesn’t it. It wants control of immigration but it wants those here legally treated fairly. And it really doesn’t like to see what appear generally to be decent hard-working people given the run around by bureaucrats.
Well put but labour need to be cafeful not to overplay this and referring the policy to Nazi Germany by Kerslake was crass and offensive
And hyperbolic. And unnecessary.
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
The point about Kerslakes intervention, as well as the intervention by the civil service unions today, is that the responsibility for this lies squarely with Ministers. Or rather, a proportion of Ministers.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
I thought they wanted a hard line taken against illegal immigrants not legal immigrants ?
Yeah but the point is that it is the role of civil servants to advise Ministers on the consequences of their policy. One easily foreseeable consequence of the 'hostile environment' policy aimed at forcing out illegal immigrants is that legal immigrants have to prove their status, when there is no easy way of doing that.
Nick Timothy should just stop trying to defend May, he doesn’t help her. If anything life is better for her when he keeps quiet.
James Chalmers - @ProfChalmers: I imagine it’s at moments like this that Hill feels *really* resentful about Timothy’s reputation as the brains of the operation.
Nick Timothy should just stop trying to defend May, he doesn’t help her. If anything life is better for her when he keeps quiet.
James Chalmers - @ProfChalmers: I imagine it’s at moments like this that Hill feels *really* resentful about Timothy’s reputation as the brains of the operation.
She’s been very quiet in comparison to Timothy. Probably doesn’t feel the need to be in the limelight like him tbh.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
I thought you were a Tory party member?
I am and loyal but I voted for Blair twice. I support TM as you know and despite this dreadful scandal she is the best person for our Country at this time.
That isn’t loyal then, is it?
I never voted Blair once, and thought he was a weasel from day one.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
I thought you were a Tory party member?
I am and loyal but I voted for Blair twice. I support TM as you know and despite this dreadful scandal she is the best person for our Country at this time.
That isn’t loyal then, is it?
I never voted Blair once, and thought he was a weasel from day one.
Mr Royale, I would advise you to withdraw that remark. OGH would not wish to be sued by a bunch of justly outraged weasels.
There seems to be more activity in the London construction market than the doomsters would have us believe:
' London’s skyline is to be transformed over the next decade with a record 510 tall towers, more than 20 storeys high, planned or under construction. The total is up from 455 towers in the pipeline in 2016, according to research from the industry forum New London Architecture (NLA) and real estate consultancy GL Hearn.
Construction has started on 115 towers, also a record. Over the past two years, work started on more projects than in the preceding five years combined. '
I have a confession to make: I like skyscrapers. I'd much rather live in an apartment on the 40th floor of some gaudy monstrosity in Central London than in a house in the countryside. I choose views and location above space and history.
Sorry.
Nothing wrong with that - each to their own and all that.
What is important is the quality of whatever home you have and who your neighbours are.
Yes neighbours are very important, I have moved house purely because of bad neighbours, happy to report I now live in a small community with excellent neighbours.
I am ligitating against my old neighbours.
I can assure you it has nothing to do with Brexit.
The eggs against the house, car being scratched/ wing mirror broken every few years, low level thievery of incinerator bins/Jerry cans, father heading round our house half pissed, constant noise from the parents swearing at their kids and eventual death of one of our rabbits because they couldn't keep control of their ferret or toddler was not entirely, but a largish factor in us moving the last year. The rest of the street was perfectly pleasant and we probably wouldn't have bothered to move to a bigger, nicer house if our former (semi attached) neighbours weren't such utter shits.
In our case, our neighbour is extending over their own access to their rear yard and claiming they have a right of way over *ours* instead, which would be at our expense.
They seem to have forgotten my wife works in a City law firm, and I have two close friends who are partners in two others.
I put £10 on Spurs not to finish top 4 a few weeks back. The odds were 100-1. The next time Spurs play in the league they’ll have been knocked out of the Cup by United and just two points ahead of Chelsea. The choke is on. I’ll spend my winnings on a weekend by the seaside.
Interview on Sky with two ladies both of whom are very happy today with the Home Office after they have battled for years over this, long before May came into Office, one dating back to 1998
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
A number of Corbyn's positions which seemed very niche at the time have turned out to be remarkably far-sighted, just as a number of Blair's decisions which seemed common sense at the time have not always stood the test of time. It's a mistake that I've made myself to think that the truth is always somewhere in the centre of the current range of opinion.
Vanilla is acting strangely on my PC with Windows 7. To get the full scroll of comments I must be signed in. For me this is annoying. And if this problem affects many casual non-member browsers then OGH is not getting his mony's worth.
I've been having a few oddities over the last couple of days, on my phone and one of my PCs. On the main site, not all recent comments are loading. On my phone it happens whether connected via WiFi or 3G; on the PC via WiFi, I think on Edge or Chrome. Yet another PC displays it perfectly, and the difference can be seen if I load the page at the same time with the PCs next to each other.
Odd, and infuriatingly inconsistent behaviour. Sometimes all the latest comments load, sometimes you just get some, the newest being from an our or so back. Reload, and you may get new ones or you may miss even those latest ones.
Not looked into it too much, aside from stopping using my phone and that PC to read PB.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
I thought you were a Tory party member?
I am and loyal but I voted for Blair twice. I support TM as you know and despite this dreadful scandal she is the best person for our Country at this time.
That isn’t loyal then, is it?
I never voted Blair once, and thought he was a weasel from day one.
The only time in 60 years - personal driver to the late Wyn Roberts over several of his GE campaigns and also in 2010 for David Jones MP so maybe give me a pass for my transgressions
A number of Corbyn's positions which seemed very niche at the time have turned out to be remarkably far-sighted,...
Really? I can't immediately see which of his love of East Germany, his embracing of IRA murderers, his support for Hugo Chavez, his admiration of Cuba, his cosying up to Hamas, his praise of vicious anti-semitic muralss, his support for the closed-shop, or his opposition to humanitarian intervention in Kosovo I'd describe as 'far-sighted'.
There seems to be more activity in the London construction market than the doomsters would have us believe:
' London’s skyline is to be transformed over the next decade with a record 510 tall towers, more than 20 storeys high, planned or under construction. The total is up from 455 towers in the pipeline in 2016, according to research from the industry forum New London Architecture (NLA) and real estate consultancy GL Hearn.
Construction has started on 115 towers, also a record. Over the past two years, work started on more projects than in the preceding five years combined. '
I have a confession to make: I like skyscrapers. I'd much rather live in an apartment on the 40th floor of some gaudy monstrosity in Central London than in a house in the countryside. I choose views and location above space and history.
Sorry.
Nothing wrong with that - each to their own and all that.
What is important is the quality of whatever home you have and who your neighbours are.
Yes neighbours are very important, I have moved house purely because of bad neighbours, happy to report I now live in a small community with excellent neighbours.
I am ligitating against my old neighbours.
I can assure you it has nothing to do with Brexit.
My advice is don't.
You will drive yourself mad.
It's as stressful as sinking your life's savings into a pub.
Vanilla is acting strangely on my PC with Windows 7. To get the full scroll of comments I must be signed in. For me this is annoying. And if this problem affects many casual non-member browsers then OGH is not getting his mony's worth.
I've been having a few oddities over the last couple of days, on my phone and one of my PCs. On the main site, not all recent comments are loading. On my phone it happens whether connected via WiFi or 3G; on the PC via WiFi, I think on Edge or Chrome. Yet another PC displays it perfectly, and the difference can be seen if I load the page at the same time with the PCs next to each other.
Odd, and infuriatingly inconsistent behaviour. Sometimes all the latest comments load, sometimes you just get some, the newest being from an our or so back. Reload, and you may get new ones or you may miss even those latest ones.
Not looked into it too much, aside from stopping using my phone and that PC to read PB.
This is a great forum on a crap platform, imo.
The other forums I belong to are generally much easier to use - apart from the Yahoo hosted Boxford lathes user group but that's another story!
I'm sorry, but this is really annoying me. The public have every right to expect our politicians and administrators to apply policy and the law competently. It is not contradictory to want immigration law to be applied without anyone here legally to be collateral damage.
The policy is to be unpleasant to as many people as possible and make things difficult for them. The law is drafted accordingly. How do you apply that policy competently ?
An efficient gatekeeper is normally seen as someone who quickly and accurately assesses the applicant and lets them pass if they meet the criteria. Anyone who pays for the service will complain if this is not the case. So you get into a concert by showing your ticket and in rare cases there may be a dress code. The criteria are understood by the applicants and they can quickly and easily establish compliance so they don't have to hang around outside in the rain for hours.
It's going to be a bit more involved for applications for residence, but the same principles could apply. The government decides what it is looking for - people who are committed to the UK and will contribute more than they take - then it works out how applicants can demonstrate their eligibility easily, quickly and cheaply.
But that's not where policy is driving to. Policy aims to make everything as difficult, drawn out, expensive and unpleasant as possible, to discourage anyone from trying.
This week's news has not just been about May and Windrush. Corbyn has had a shocking week over Syria, Russia and Anti Semitism. I'd not care to predict the impact of this week on leader ratings.
My guess - Both Theresa and Jezza will be down and voting intention will be unchanged.
"There's a difference between what offends you and what affects you"
Although I think people widely disapprove of how the government has handled the 'Windrush' affair, it also doesn't actually affect people, nor do most people think themselves at risk of being affected by it. The same as with Labour's antisemitism issues.
I would go further Lord Kerslake comparing it to Nazi attitudes is just going to anger many. What is it with labour and Nazi's.
I comprehensively condemn the Windrush scandal but spreading nonsense like that is unacceptable
Say what you like about Theresa May, but I really don't think she wants to turn this country into the Fourth Reich.
It would involve a messianic engagement with the great British volk, spellbinding oratory and getting the trains to run on time.
So no.
Theresa May is Britain's Angela Merkel, not our Adolf Hitler.
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
A number of Corbyn's positions which seemed very niche at the time have turned out to be remarkably far-sighted, just as a number of Blair's decisions which seemed common sense at the time have not always stood the test of time. It's a mistake that I've made myself to think that the truth is always somewhere in the centre of the current range of opinion.
OTOH many of Corbyn's positions which seemed very niche remain very niche.
There seems to be more activity in the London construction market than the doomsters would have us believe:
' London’s skyline is to be transformed over the next decade with a record 510 tall towers, more than 20 storeys high, planned or under construction. The total is up from 455 towers in the pipeline in 2016, according to research from the industry forum New London Architecture (NLA) and real estate consultancy GL Hearn.
Construction has started on 115 towers, also a record. Over the past two years, work started on more projects than in the preceding five years combined. '
I have a confession to make: I like skyscrapers. I'd much rather live in an apartment on the 40th floor of some gaudy monstrosity in Central London than in a house in the countryside. I choose views and location above space and history.
Sorry.
Nothing wrong with that - each to their own and all that.
What is important is the quality of whatever home you have and who your neighbours are.
Yes neighbours are very important, I have moved house purely because of bad neighbours, happy to report I now live in a small community with excellent neighbours.
I am ligitating against my old neighbours.
I can assure you it has nothing to do with Brexit.
My advice is don't.
You will drive yourself mad.
It's as stressful as sinking your life's savings into a pub.
The only one's who come out of litigation with a smile are the solicitors (which given how many lawyers post on here is something I probably shouldn't say )
There seems to be more activity in the London construction market than the doomsters would have us believe:
' London’s skyline is to be transformed over the next decade with a record 510 tall towers, more than 20 storeys high, planned or under construction. The total is up from 455 towers in the pipeline in 2016, according to research from the industry forum New London Architecture (NLA) and real estate consultancy GL Hearn.
Construction has started on 115 towers, also a record. Over the past two years, work started on more projects than in the preceding five years combined. '
I have a confession to make: I like skyscrapers. I'd much rather live in an apartment on the 40th floor of some gaudy monstrosity in Central London than in a house in the countryside. I choose views and location above space and history.
Sorry.
Nothing wrong with that - each to their own and all that.
What is important is the quality of whatever home you have and who your neighbours are.
Yes neighbours are very important, I have moved house purely because of bad neighbours, happy to report I now live in a small community with excellent neighbours.
I am ligitating against my old neighbours.
I can assure you it has nothing to do with Brexit.
My advice is don't.
You will drive yourself mad.
It's as stressful as sinking your life's savings into a pub.
The only one's who come out of litigation with a smile are the solicitors) (which given how many lawyers post on here is something I probably shouldn't say )
I try to give honest advices clients. So, my advice to people wishing to sue their neighbours, or to become victims/ tenants of Enterprise Inns and Punch Taverns is "Don't." But, it doesn't mean they follow my advice.
What the Guardian article glosses over is that the dates don't actually match their narrative that it's all due to changes introduced by Theresa May, or the 2014 Act:
Despite having the letter, he said the problems began when he lost the passport containing the stamp. Attempts to get his new Jamaican passport stamped with the indefinite leave to remain were rebuffed by the Home Office in 2009 ...
or:
When Leighton Joseph Robinson, 58, went to Jamaica for his 50th birthday, ...
If anyone ever thought that the Guardian was morally superior to the Daily Mail, look at this humdinger of a dog-whistle smear:
Residents of 80 flats managed by a company owned by David Cameron’s half brother-in-law are each facing bills of up to £40,000 because the building is clad with flammable panels similar to those used on Grenfell Tower, in London.
Leaseholders of the Sesame apartments in Battersea, south London, fear they are trapped in unsellable homes and William Astor’s company claims it is not responsible for the costs.
"claims it's not responsible for the costs'??? In what conceivable world would the management company be responsible for the costs? But it's an opportunity to smear Cameron by association.
The interview on Sky that I watched with the two Carribean ladies delighted with the home office and saying that they have been fighting for years, even in one of their cases, since 1998. This was going on throughout the labour years and is obvious they were treating the Windrush children exactly as recently.
However, that interview was REMOVED BY SKY at their 10 o clock news.
If anyone ever thought that the Guardian was morally superior to the Daily Mail, look at this humdinger of a dog-whistle smear:
Residents of 80 flats managed by a company owned by David Cameron’s half brother-in-law are each facing bills of up to £40,000 because the building is clad with flammable panels similar to those used on Grenfell Tower, in London.
Leaseholders of the Sesame apartments in Battersea, south London, fear they are trapped in unsellable homes and William Astor’s company claims it is not responsible for the costs.
"claims it's not responsible for the costs'??? In what conceivable world would the management company be responsible for the costs? But it's an opportunity to smear Cameron by association.
Paul Dacre is better at it, admittedly.
It's lose lose for ManCo.
Do the works, and put a million pounds through the service charge.
Don't do the works and - even if everyone lives - still be blamed
I put £10 on Spurs not to finish top 4 a few weeks back. The odds were 100-1. The next time Spurs play in the league they’ll have been knocked out of the Cup by United and just two points ahead of Chelsea. The choke is on. I’ll spend my winnings on a weekend by the seaside.
Didn't you make a similar prediction at this stage last year ?
I'm sorry, but this is really annoying me. The public have every right to expect our politicians and administrators to apply policy and the law competently. It is not contradictory to want immigration law to be applied without anyone here legally to be collateral damage.
But that's not where policy is driving to. Policy aims to make everything as difficult, drawn out, expensive and unpleasant as possible, to discourage anyone from trying.
Sounds like watching Puel's Leicester!
Rationing by obstructive bureaucracy is something that I am very familiar with, it is the cornerstone of the NHS.
"claims it's not responsible for the costs'??? In what conceivable world would the management company be responsible for the costs? But it's an opportunity to smear Cameron by association.
In the Grauniad world, where whoever has greater wealth and/or "power" in any dispute is automatically at fault/liable.
What the Guardian article glosses over is that the dates don't actually match their narrative that it's all due to changes introduced by Theresa May, or the 2014 Act:
Despite having the letter, he said the problems began when he lost the passport containing the stamp. Attempts to get his new Jamaican passport stamped with the indefinite leave to remain were rebuffed by the Home Office in 2009 ...
or:
When Leighton Joseph Robinson, 58, went to Jamaica for his 50th birthday, ...
Do the works, and put a million pounds through the service charge.
Don't do the works and - even if everyone lives - still be blamed
There is a possibility that the freeholder is responsible, but most probably the leaseholders are, although they might be able to claim off the contractors or the surveyors who signed off the work. The management company certainly isn't responsible, unless they were grossly negligent.
Of course it's awful for the leaseholders, but no more so than it would be for a freehold house owner suddenly faced with a huge bill because the house wasn't safe. This idea that someone else has to be to blame - preferably someone who can be smeared by association - is vile.
What the Guardian article glosses over is that the dates don't actually match their narrative that it's all due to changes introduced by Theresa May, or the 2014 Act:
Despite having the letter, he said the problems began when he lost the passport containing the stamp. Attempts to get his new Jamaican passport stamped with the indefinite leave to remain were rebuffed by the Home Office in 2009 ...
or:
When Leighton Joseph Robinson, 58, went to Jamaica for his 50th birthday, ...
Why do Labour hate the Windrush generation?
Because, before the glorious revolution, they were under the control of a cabal of Red Tories?
Though in terms of beastliness to foreigners they were only a pale imitation of the Blue Tories
So a real piece of work......Whatever anyone might think about Corbyn's leadership abilities and judgement there's a lot to be said for someone with basically decent values. Not a scale Mrs May scores very highly on.
So a real piece of work......Whatever anyone might think about Corbyn's leadership abilities and judgement there's a lot to be said for someone with basically decent values. Not a scale Mrs May scores very highly on.
Yes, so decent that a couple of weeks after his fellow MPs and their wives were maimed and murdered by terrorists, he rubbed their noses in it by inviting the murderers' accomplices into parliament.
So a real piece of work......Whatever anyone might think about Corbyn's leadership abilities and judgement there's a lot to be said for someone with basically decent values. Not a scale Mrs May scores very highly on.
There's nothing basically decent about looking the other way when tyrants are gassing children.
If anyone ever thought that the Guardian was morally superior to the Daily Mail, look at this humdinger of a dog-whistle smear:
Residents of 80 flats managed by a company owned by David Cameron’s half brother-in-law are each facing bills of up to £40,000 because the building is clad with flammable panels similar to those used on Grenfell Tower, in London.
Leaseholders of the Sesame apartments in Battersea, south London, fear they are trapped in unsellable homes and William Astor’s company claims it is not responsible for the costs.
"claims it's not responsible for the costs'??? In what conceivable world would the management company be responsible for the costs? But it's an opportunity to smear Cameron by association.
Paul Dacre is better at it, admittedly.
Surely that's a dispute between the leaseholder, the freeholder and the builder.
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
A number of Corbyn's positions which seemed very niche at the time have turned out to be remarkably far-sighted, just as a number of Blair's decisions which seemed common sense at the time have not always stood the test of time. It's a mistake that I've made myself to think that the truth is always somewhere in the centre of the current range of opinion.
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
I thought you were a Tory party member?
I am and loyal but I voted for Blair twice. I support TM as you know and despite this dreadful scandal she is the best person for our Country at this time.
That isn’t loyal then, is it?
I never voted Blair once, and thought he was a weasel from day one.
What the Guardian article glosses over is that the dates don't actually match their narrative that it's all due to changes introduced by Theresa May, or the 2014 Act:
Despite having the letter, he said the problems began when he lost the passport containing the stamp. Attempts to get his new Jamaican passport stamped with the indefinite leave to remain were rebuffed by the Home Office in 2009 ...
or:
When Leighton Joseph Robinson, 58, went to Jamaica for his 50th birthday, ...
Why do Labour hate the Windrush generation?
Because, before the glorious revolution, they were under the control of a cabal of Red Tories?
Though in terms of beastliness to foreigners they were only a pale imitation of the Blue Tories
What the Guardian article glosses over is that the dates don't actually match their narrative that it's all due to changes introduced by Theresa May, or the 2014 Act:
Despite having the letter, he said the problems began when he lost the passport containing the stamp. Attempts to get his new Jamaican passport stamped with the indefinite leave to remain were rebuffed by the Home Office in 2009 ...
or:
When Leighton Joseph Robinson, 58, went to Jamaica for his 50th birthday, ...
Why do Labour hate the Windrush generation?
Because, before the glorious revolution, they were under the control of a cabal of Red Tories?
Though in terms of beastliness to foreigners they were only a pale imitation of the Blue Tories
On topic, I suspect May will just about get away with the Windrush scandal, much as her critics wish it brought her down. Most people will support both the 2014 immigration reforms and regret the fact that some Windrush migrants were unfairly affected, which they will they will put down to a combination of politicians from both sides getting it wrong and Home Office incompetence going back decades. They won’t think Theresa May has the Mark of Cain upon her.
Also, the story only lasted one or two news cycles, and there have been too many other things going on this week - like CHOG, the hot weather, or Dale Winton.
Agree, the put down at PMQ's changed the narrative, and the news cycle has moved on. It is still a very sorry, and sad stain on our country.
The put down at PMQs didn’t change the narrative, as the evening news yesterday illustrated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
It does make you wonder just how much damage Corbyn is doing to labour. I could never vote for him or his marxist cabal but a more sensible labour party who knows. I have in the past
I thought you were a Tory party member?
I am and loyal but I voted for Blair twice. I support TM as you know and despite this dreadful scandal she is the best person for our Country at this time.
That isn’t loyal then, is it?
I never voted Blair once, and thought he was a weasel from day one.
Best ten years 1997 to 2007 in the UK .
Bit like a leap off a 10 storey building. It is only at the very end there are problems!
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
Looks like a hard Brexit with the EU building a new Berlin Wall to fence in Ulster. What will be the nationality of the guards on the fence ? ROI or Belgian ?
Yay! We get to not write a cheque for tens of billions....
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)
If they want to put up a hard border, we can't stop them. It's entirely up to them (it's called 'sovereignty', although the Irish might not see it that way).
Comments
http://www.5rb.com/defamation-2/judgment-plebgate/
I do wonder though about some of the people who made the decisions. At one stage in my life I had to sign the letters from the health authority that I worked for that told women that they couldn’t have fertility treatments and while some were clearly outside the guidelines, there were, of course some hard cses that we had to discuss. It wasn’t something I enjoyed doing.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/trump-judicial-nominee-michael-truncale-called-immigrants-maggots.html
"Mrs May is no xenophobe but she is using Iron Lady tactics at a time when warmth, accommodation and communication are needed. "
No warmth in a cold fish.
Only those asked should be there but when they are they should be well treated.
I’m curious to judgement that the public will go a both sideism (see Casino Royale’s post) on this one given that the coverage has not produced that narrative at all, indeed PB is one of the few places I’ve seen it. I don’t think it will produce much of an effect in the polls as I think right now everyone is pretty decided on what side they are and they aren’t budging. All it will do is reinforce the pre existing image those who are voting Labour right now have about the Tories.
And they succeeded.
Not that it was the most troubling aspect of the story, not by miles, and yet a guy being an arsehole, probably, somehow excused outright criminality from at least one serving officer, and a bunch of others going on a political campaign, including lying, in order to get that arsehole sacked.
(My six year old loves the Cheshire Cheese as well)
sharkslawyers had takenalmost every pennya small consideration.Unless you mean the one on Fleet Street which is "Ye olde". It's a maze on the inside and the entrance is on a random little alley.
One would have expected to run into Robert in there a few years ago...
Of course Corbyn isn’t the last Labour government, but he manages to be crap in his own special way.
“The real lessons from this scandal need to be learned by the politicians who got exactly what they asked for from the civil service, even if that fact is now a little inconvenient.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/19/civil-servants-union-boss-dave-penman-hits-back-at-rudd-windrush-blame
Sure someone on here will provide tne link to it
I never voted Blair once, and thought he was a weasel from day one.
They seem to have forgotten my wife works in a City law firm, and I have two close friends who are partners in two others.
Odd, and infuriatingly inconsistent behaviour. Sometimes all the latest comments load, sometimes you just get some, the newest being from an our or so back. Reload, and you may get new ones or you may miss even those latest ones.
Not looked into it too much, aside from stopping using my phone and that PC to read PB.
You will drive yourself mad.
It's as stressful as sinking your life's savings into a pub.
The other forums I belong to are generally much easier to use - apart from the Yahoo hosted Boxford lathes user group but that's another story!
An efficient gatekeeper is normally seen as someone who quickly and accurately assesses the applicant and lets them pass if they meet the criteria. Anyone who pays for the service will complain if this is not the case. So you get into a concert by showing your ticket and in rare cases there may be a dress code. The criteria are understood by the applicants and they can quickly and easily establish compliance so they don't have to hang around outside in the rain for hours.
It's going to be a bit more involved for applications for residence, but the same principles could apply. The government decides what it is looking for - people who are committed to the UK and will contribute more than they take - then it works out how applicants can demonstrate their eligibility easily, quickly and cheaply.
But that's not where policy is driving to. Policy aims to make everything as difficult, drawn out, expensive and unpleasant as possible, to discourage anyone from trying.
I'd have thought that falling inflation and rising wages was a good thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/19/windrush-generation-tell-of-holidays-that-led-to-exile-and-heartbreak
What the Guardian article glosses over is that the dates don't actually match their narrative that it's all due to changes introduced by Theresa May, or the 2014 Act:
Despite having the letter, he said the problems began when he lost the passport containing the stamp. Attempts to get his new Jamaican passport stamped with the indefinite leave to remain were rebuffed by the Home Office in 2009 ...
or:
When Leighton Joseph Robinson, 58, went to Jamaica for his 50th birthday, ...
I can't think of any.
Residents of 80 flats managed by a company owned by David Cameron’s half brother-in-law are each facing bills of up to £40,000 because the building is clad with flammable panels similar to those used on Grenfell Tower, in London.
Leaseholders of the Sesame apartments in Battersea, south London, fear they are trapped in unsellable homes and William Astor’s company claims it is not responsible for the costs.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/19/leaseholders-of-flats-face-40000-bills-over-grenfell-type-cladding
"claims it's not responsible for the costs'??? In what conceivable world would the management company be responsible for the costs? But it's an opportunity to smear Cameron by association.
Paul Dacre is better at it, admittedly.
However, that interview was REMOVED BY SKY at their 10 o clock news.
That is shocking
Do the works, and put a million pounds through the service charge.
Don't do the works and - even if everyone lives - still be blamed
Rationing by obstructive bureaucracy is something that I am very familiar with, it is the cornerstone of the NHS.
Of course it's awful for the leaseholders, but no more so than it would be for a freehold house owner suddenly faced with a huge bill because the house wasn't safe. This idea that someone else has to be to blame - preferably someone who can be smeared by association - is vile.
Though in terms of beastliness to foreigners they were only a pale imitation of the Blue Tories
https://twitter.com/proftimbale/status/986869972508037120
Votes on customs unions may all be a bit of a moot point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_Labour_Party
(Are you sure this is what you want, Brussels?)