Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Latest PB/Polling Matters podcast: Are you racist? Syrian airs

124»

Comments

  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fascinating article, on how young people are being conned online to bet on binary currency options.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/19/wolves-of-instagram-jordan-belmont-social-media-traders

    "How to make £30,000 a month"

    Answer: sell people the idea of making £30,000 a month.

    It's an old idea and a new audience.
    Right it is a new spin on an old con, just i didn't know it was done via these binary currency betting platforms.
    The most surprising part of that article is this "Some companies, such as 500Plus and 24Option, are legitimate"
    That just means that they actually offer bets on markets, and have the appropriate licences to operate wherever they’re based.

    As opposed to the young black kid in the story, who seems to derive the majority of his income from subscriptions to a WhatsApp group and referral fees from semi-legitimate companies - while telling the world from a loud platform that he’s making his money from trading currencies.
    For about ten years, there have been a lot of dodgy forex (CFD) websites you would not be confident would pay out even if you "won". The binary shares market must be similar. Legitimate here must mean they actually pay out, even if the risk is completely unsuitable.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    As an aside, those wanting us to permanently remain in the customs union will also permanently make the EU a feature of UK politics and entrench the poisonous atmosphere we have now.

    Leaving properly is the only way to move on.

    If we remain in the customs union because the unelected Lords decide that's the way the vote of the electorate to leave should be handled, then we'll have parties proposing leaving the customs union, and others proposing joining the single market.

    Absurd garbage.

    Being in the continent of Europe and sharing a land border with the EU makes it a permanent feature of U.K. politics.

    The poisonous atmosphere is in part a result of the tendentious lies served up in the name of Brexit (not to mention the racism).

    You won. Just own it already.
    Getting pretty sick of Remainers telling Leavers to own it whilst other Remainers do everything they can to keep us under EU control e.g. in the form of the Customs Union.

    Maybe tell your mates in the HoL to let us own it?
    Unhinged. The customs union is not the EU. If Britain ends up in it, Leavers will have no ground to argue that the referendum vote was not honoured.
    Back to insults I see.

    Lost to a bus. Quelle surprise.

    The Customs union would prevent us having control of our trade policy, as it would be significantly in control of the EU.
    Trade policy was a significant driver of the vote to leave the EU. EU trade deals being very slow and cumbersome, entrenching protectionism rather than encouraging more trade, and they can't even complete their own single market in services, let alone negotiate one with others.
    TTIP was a major factor for me.
    TTIP was one of the reasons I voted Remain. The EU would not agree to TTIP thanks to massive resistance, particularly in Germany, to the reduction on food standards, and the loss of sovereignty implied by ISDS.

    One of my concerns about Brexit is that the UK might agree an even worse kind of TTIP, led by Fox.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    edited April 2018
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fascinating article, on how young people are being conned online to bet on binary currency options.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/19/wolves-of-instagram-jordan-belmont-social-media-traders

    "How to make £30,000 a month"

    Answer: sell people the idea of making £30,000 a month.

    It's an old idea and a new audience.
    Right it is a new spin on an old con, just i didn't know it was done via these binary currency betting platforms.
    The most surprising part of that article is this "Some companies, such as 500Plus and 24Option, are legitimate"
    That just means that they actually offer bets on markets, and have the appropriate licences to operate wherever they’re based.

    As opposed to the young black kid in the story, who seems to derive the majority of his income from subscriptions to a WhatsApp group and referral fees from semi-legitimate companies - while telling the world from a loud platform that he’s making his money from trading currencies.
    I thought the program smelt a bit from when I watched it.

    The fashion label guy is legit making his own money, as is the youtuber (Though he is not rich rich rich), the gypsy guy's dad is worth £400 million or something!, but yes Oyefeso is basically a good old fashioned con artist.
    Good journalism by the Guardian, less so the C4 researchers into the show.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    Gove was good on the radio this morning, I know he isn't universally liked but he seems the most legitimate of the next Tory leader brexiteer contenders to me.
    I think he'd make a competent PM, if unspectacular.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    I think he'd make a competent PM, if unspectacular.

    That was May's USP, before she got the gig
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)
    .
    .."

    They might, they might not but I've a right to be cynical and a right to ask questions. I'm delighted the Skripals and DS Bailey are recovering but we still seem in the dark as to how, when, where and by whom they were infected. As for Douma, "something" clearly happened and initial reports seemed to verify the notion of gas bombs dropped from helicopters but I now read Fisk, a much respected correspondent, and I'm left with questions and concerns.

    It's so much easier to portray the world and everything in it as black and white - we good, Putin bad,. May good, Corbyn bad - but all I see is shades of grey and that worries me because much though I'd like to think I was on the side of what is decent, civilised and ordered, I'm not always convinced that's true.

    ""but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia – not gas poisoning.”" (Fisk)

    Sounds nonsense to me. Hypoxia is caused when you swap the air for gasses which are not air. Doesn't have to be poison gas, could be CO2, but I don't see that his dust and wind would do it. There's quite a lot of oxygen in wind. And he is doing a differential diagnosis (hypoxia/poisoning) by eye alone: how does that work? Are the symptoms that different and has he seen enough of bot to tell the difference?
    Hypoxia is quite different from poisoning, with the former you just feel a little high then faint as the oxygen diminishes at the brain. Someone who dies of hypoxia won’t know what happened to them, it’s well studied in the fields of aviation and mountaineering. Poisoning on the other hand will likely lead to coughing and spluttering as the chemical affects the nasal region, trachea and lungs, someone who dies of gas poisoning likely suffers horribly in their last moments as they gasp for air.
    People die of carbon monoxide poisoning without realising, either. There is a degree of confusion in both cases which doesn't help the victim rationalise the solution.
    Yes, CO poisoning is basically hypoxia - the CO doesn’t react physically, as it’s normal to be in the body, and as the concentration of O2 falls in the ‘air’ one becomes disorientated then simply falls asleep as the brain runs out of oxygen. As deaths go it’s a nice one.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think he'd make a competent PM, if unspectacular.

    That was May's USP, before she got the gig
    It's a definite contrast to a certain other blonde runner and rider though !
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    I have to confess since reading the Robert Fisk piece in the Independent, I'm now having "doubts" about events in Douma and the basis on which the albeit limited airstrikes, which I was happy to initially support, were carried out.

    To be honest, I don't trust or believe the Government - it's not necessarily a question of outright lying, it's more misinformation, disinformation and the notion that as a citizen I have to unreservedly trust and believe whatever anyone from the Prime Minister down tells me.

    Before anyone jumps on their partisan bandwagon, I don't trust this Government, I didn't trust the Coalition and I didn't trust the Labour Government. I wouldn't trust a Corbyn Government and I wouldn't even trust a majority LD Government.

    I don't know when the trust was lost - perhaps I've always had a healthy cynicism or simply, as a citizen, I believe I have the right to know but there's the thing - May, as Cameron and Blair before her, loves hiding behind "national security" and " classified information". We're back to "believe and trust the Government. We know, we're not telling you, but we know."

    They might, they might not but I've a right to be cynical and a right to ask questions. I'm delighted the Skripals and DS Bailey are recovering but we still seem in the dark as to how, when, where and by whom they were infected. As for Douma, "something" clearly happened and initial reports seemed to verify the notion of gas bombs dropped from helicopters but I now read Fisk, a much respected correspondent, and I'm left with questions and concerns.

    It's so much easier to portray the world and everything in it as black and white - we good, Putin bad,. May good, Corbyn bad - but all I see is shades of grey and that worries me because much though I'd like to think I was on the side of what is decent, civilised and ordered, I'm not always convinced that's true.

    I posted a link to Robert Fisk article yesterday .As a commentator on UK Polling Report had linked it.I have heard of Fisk through his reports in the Independent on the Middle East.As you say from his report there are grey areas , I do not know the validity of what he has written.Nevetheless it has created doubt as in all wars there is a lot of fog.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,291

    Retail sales predicted to have fallen by only 0.5% in March:

    https://www.forexfactory.com/

    Given the weather and the retail apocalypse reported in the media I would expect a much larger fall to have happened.

    Early Easter. Really ought to have risen above the average.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Pulpstar said:

    Neither of the former major constituent parts of 'the lands of the Holy Hungarian Crown of St. Stephen.' are going to leave the EU though, and both are looking to take a tough line on extra-EU migration.
    On the other hand we'll be leaving the EU and its not going to make a gnat's fart of difference to our immigration policy or numbers.
    Even taken together, I think modern-day Austria and Hungary would account for well under 50% of the 1918 Austro-Hungarian empire? Modern-day successor state also include Czech Rep, Slovakia, some of Poland, some of Romania, some of Ukraine, some of Moldova (?), Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegoniva, some of Serbia and some of Italy.
    On a point of order, the Holy Hungarian Crown of St. Stephen did not cover Austria. It represented only the Hungarian part of Austria-Hungary.
    Fair point, although you slipped that in as a reply to an article about Austria. And modern Hungary is *way* less than 50% of Austro-Hungarian Hungary (which was one of the bones of contention to its internal reform, as it pitted the powerful minority against the disenfranchised ethnicities).
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Pulpstar said:

    Gove was good on the radio this morning, I know he isn't universally liked but he seems the most legitimate of the next Tory leader brexiteer contenders to me.
    I think he'd make a competent PM, if unspectacular.

    I think he'd be a shot in the dark. He's an intellectual radical on the quiet - mainly because he's polite - and I wouldn't expect unspectacularness: check out his reforming nature at education, justice and now the environment.

    If people were prepared to give him a hearing, I could see many of his ideas and policies being popular. However, would he get a hearing?

    (I'd also be concerned about the possibility of Dominic Cummings anywhere near No 10).
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Also the point is that the deals can be better for us, as they can target the benefits we need, even if the EU would consider it to be a 'worse' deal if they had it overall for them.

    We gain flexibility for what the UK does best, that we would never get being part of the EU.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299
    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think he'd make a competent PM, if unspectacular.

    That was May's USP, before she got the gig
    Not as assessed by those who knew her.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fascinating article, on how young people are being conned online to bet on binary currency options.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/19/wolves-of-instagram-jordan-belmont-social-media-traders

    "How to make £30,000 a month"

    Answer: sell people the idea of making £30,000 a month.

    It's an old idea and a new audience.
    Right it is a new spin on an old con, just i didn't know it was done via these binary currency betting platforms.
    The most surprising part of that article is this "Some companies, such as 500Plus and 24Option, are legitimate"
    That just means that they actually offer bets on markets, and have the appropriate licences to operate wherever they’re based.

    As opposed to the young black kid in the story, who seems to derive the majority of his income from subscriptions to a WhatsApp group and referral fees from semi-legitimate companies - while telling the world from a loud platform that he’s making his money from trading currencies.
    I thought the program smelt a bit from when I watched it.

    The fashion label guy is legit making his own money, as is the youtuber (Though he is not rich rich rich), the gypsy guy's dad is worth £400 million or something!, but yes Oyefeso is basically a good old fashioned con artist.
    Good journalism by the Guardian, less so the C4 researchers into the show.
    Very much so.

    People also underestimate how much it costs to give an external impression of serious wealth - renting a £200k supercar is £1k a day, and an hour with a private jet that never actually takes off is only going to be a few hundred quid.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299
    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Wow, that’s a huge comment from HM.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    I’m glad to see that Vince Cable has agreed to return donations from convicted fraudster and bail jumper Andrew Green.

    What do you mean he hasn’t? Surely he would apply double standards?
    How stupid are HMRC?
    Obviously it is not an official criterion. Even as an unofficial criterion, I would bet my bottom dollar that someone at HMRC - and not the Tories/government - has taken it upon themselves to think about it.
    Yes - it’s absolutely inappropriate (and even the letter says it’s not a factor but the idiot shouldn’t have written it).

    If I was cynical I’d say it was a Labour activist planting a bomb for the government
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121
    Sandpit said:


    Hypoxia is quite different from poisoning, with the former you just feel a little high then faint as the oxygen diminishes at the brain. Someone who dies of hypoxia won’t know what happened to them, it’s well studied in the fields of aviation and mountaineering. Poisoning on the other hand will likely lead to coughing and spluttering as the chemical affects the nasal region, trachea and lungs, someone who dies of gas poisoning likely suffers horribly in their last moments as they gasp for air.

    Fascinating programme a few years back with Portillo investigating the US death penalty and how it was implemented. One thing that appalled was a demonstration that prisoners on death row could be painlessly euthanased using hypoxia. But it wasn't used in the penal system because it was felt that they should suffer along the way to meeting their maker....
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Fraser Nelson is appalled:

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/986841764936876032?s=21

    But he doesn’t make the connection to the viciously anti-immigration campaign that the referendum was won on. Far from this being the wrong Brexit, it was the Brexit voted for.

    It is interesting how quickly Brexiteers have gone from being part of a brutally racist campaign to the staunchest opponents of the Windrush deportations and Labour's anti-Semitism. I think it's called cognitive dissonance. Guido and his disciples would make good case studies
    It's called taking decisions based on their merits.
    No, Roger is right. You can’t pick-n-mix xenophobia, relishing in scaring people about some foreigners then profess horror when other groups are targeted. At some point this will dawn on Leavers and they will come to appreciate the beast they have helped to create until that point, the country will continue to decline and become more divided.
    The Windrush generation are not being [insert emotive word here]

    A general policy of requiring people to provide their right to residency has been inflexibly applied.

    That is a mistake, but a bureaucratic one which has created a political problem. It will be fixed.

    (FWIW when my wife was going for ILR it was a complete PITA despite the fact she’d been here only a few years and we had a specialist lawyer helping us. I can only imagine how much worse it would be for one of the Windrush group)
    With all due respect, it was not a bureaucratic mistake; rather a bureaucracy following a very clear lead set by ministers, May at their forefront.

    Sure, the particular Windrush fiasco was an unintended consequence, but the effort to render life impossible for all undocumented immigrants* (amongst whom a significant proportion are entirely entitled to permanent residence, as we have seen) was quite deliberate.

    *along with imperfectly documented immigrants.
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear - it was not a “bureaucratic mistake” but a “mistake which is administrative in nature and hence is simple to fix”.

    Fundamentally asking people to prove documentary proof of their right to reside is entirely reasonable. This is a small group of people no one thought about - that group obviously had the right to be here and have issues with their paperwork so a solution needs to be found.

    The vast majority of “undocumented immigrants” do not have the right to be here.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299
    edited April 2018
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
    That is correct.

    Edit: why, of what relevance are they?
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    That HMRC letter regarding Lycamobile is absolutely gobsmacking. What the hell was going on?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Sandpit said:


    Hypoxia is quite different from poisoning, with the former you just feel a little high then faint as the oxygen diminishes at the brain. Someone who dies of hypoxia won’t know what happened to them, it’s well studied in the fields of aviation and mountaineering. Poisoning on the other hand will likely lead to coughing and spluttering as the chemical affects the nasal region, trachea and lungs, someone who dies of gas poisoning likely suffers horribly in their last moments as they gasp for air.

    Fascinating programme a few years back with Portillo investigating the US death penalty and how it was implemented. One thing that appalled was a demonstration that prisoners on death row could be painlessly euthanased using hypoxia. But it wasn't used in the penal system because it was felt that they should suffer along the way to meeting their maker....
    That’s sounds worth looking up, thanks for the tip.

    On a pressurised aeroplane, the loudest and most distinctive alarm is for cabin pressure, and the very first action of the (memorised) checklist is to get the oxygen masks on, before anything to do with flying the plane. At 40k’ it takes only five or six seconds to knock you unconscious if exposed to atmospheric pressure at that altitude.

    Military pilots train extensively for this, including on one occasion the aforementioned Mr Portillo.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XcvkjfG4A_M
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    Happy to report a ‘good’ letter from DWP this morning. As a result of them (their computer) noticing I shall be 80 in three weeks or so I am to recieve, from that onward a pension increase.

    25p per week. Slightly under £13 per year. It’s not that I’m not grateful, but how much does that cost to administer?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299

    Happy to report a ‘good’ letter from DWP this morning. As a result of them (their computer) noticing I shall be 80 in three weeks or so I am to recieve, from that onward a pension increase.

    25p per week. Slightly under £13 per year. It’s not that I’m not grateful, but how much does that cost to administer?

    Congratulations. Gin doesn't buy itself these days.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,291

    Happy to report a ‘good’ letter from DWP this morning. As a result of them (their computer) noticing I shall be 80 in three weeks or so I am to recieve, from that onward a pension increase.

    25p per week. Slightly under £13 per year. It’s not that I’m not grateful, but how much does that cost to administer?

    3-4 years worth? It should be mainly computerised.

    Happy birthday when it comes.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited April 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    Gove was good on the radio this morning, I know he isn't universally liked but he seems the most legitimate of the next Tory leader brexiteer contenders to me.
    I think he'd make a competent PM, if unspectacular.

    I think he would be far better than that.

    His "bad" reputation stems from upsetting a powerful vested interest - public sector teachers - when he changed education such that it is now more for the benefit of the consumer (pupils, parents) not the supplier (NUT). To do this successfully he had to bypass the civil service - which made him a few more enemies.

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited April 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
    That is correct.

    Edit: why, of what relevance are they?
    I have no intention of getting Mike in trouble, but let’s just say that, as the Harvey Weinstein scandal and many others have shown, lots of young actresses waitresses in Hollywood are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their careers, and are willing to find unconventional sources of income in the meantime.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,291
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Fraser Nelson is appalled:

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/986841764936876032?s=21

    But he doesn’t make the connection to the viciously anti-immigration campaign that the referendum was won on. Far from this being the wrong Brexit, it was the Brexit voted for.

    It is interesting how quickly Brexiteers have gone from being part of a brutally racist campaign to the staunchest opponents of the Windrush deportations and Labour's anti-Semitism. I think it's called cognitive dissonance. Guido and his disciples would make good case studies
    It's called taking decisions based on their merits.
    No, Roger is right. You can’t pick-n-mix xenophobia, relishing in scaring people about some foreigners then profess horror when other groups are targeted. At some point this will dawn on Leavers and they will come to appreciate the beast they have helped to create until that point, the country will continue to decline and become more divided.
    The Windrush generation are not being [insert emotive word here]

    A general policy of requiring people to provide their right to residency has been inflexibly applied.

    That is a mistake, but a bureaucratic one which has created a political problem. It will be fixed.

    (FWIW when my wife was going for ILR it was a complete PITA despite the fact she’d been here only a few years and we had a specialist lawyer helping us. I can only imagine how much worse it would be for one of the Windrush group)
    With all due respect, it was not a bureaucratic mistake; rather a bureaucracy following a very clear lead set by ministers, May at their forefront.

    Sure, the particular Windrush fiasco was an unintended consequence, but the effort to render life impossible for all undocumented immigrants* (amongst whom a significant proportion are entirely entitled to permanent residence, as we have seen) was quite deliberate.

    *along with imperfectly documented immigrants.
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear - it was not a “bureaucratic mistake” but a “mistake which is administrative in nature and hence is simple to fix”.

    Fundamentally asking people to prove documentary proof of their right to reside is entirely reasonable. This is a small group of people no one thought about - that group obviously had the right to be here and have issues with their paperwork so a solution needs to be found.

    The vast majority of “undocumented immigrants” do not have the right to be here.
    Indeed, and if we start cutting undocumented immigrants special slack we risk causing a serious littering problem.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    edited April 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Happy to report a ‘good’ letter from DWP this morning. As a result of them (their computer) noticing I shall be 80 in three weeks or so I am to recieve, from that onward a pension increase.

    25p per week. Slightly under £13 per year. It’s not that I’m not grateful, but how much does that cost to administer?

    Congratulations. Gin doesn't buy itself these days.
    Thank you.
    We’ve got a very good specialist gin shop locally, too. Samples sometimes. if you get there at the right moment!
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
    That is correct.

    Edit: why, of what relevance are they?
    I have no intention of getting Mike in trouble, but let’s just say that, as the Harvey Weinstein scandal and many others have shown, lots of young actresses waitresses in Hollywood are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their careers, and are willing to find unconventional sources of income in the meantime.
    Well whatever she did or didn't do she is about to marry Harry Wales and so some interesting occupation for her would, IMO, be a good idea.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems

    Absolutely. Many of my friends in Dubai have drained their pools, astonished by the cost of maintaining them. The developers loved the selling point of the pool without reference to the fact that it’s bloody expensive to keep it serviceable.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    Only if the USA joins the Commonwealth.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
    That is correct.

    Edit: why, of what relevance are they?
    I have no intention of getting Mike in trouble, but let’s just say that, as the Harvey Weinstein scandal and many others have shown, lots of young actresses waitresses in Hollywood are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their careers, and are willing to find unconventional sources of income in the meantime.
    Well whatever she did or didn't do she is about to marry Harry Wales and so some interesting occupation for her would, IMO, be a good idea.
    Indeed so, but the US media know her well and aren’t going to genuflect in front of the British royals when they have a story to sell.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,090
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
    That is correct.

    Edit: why, of what relevance are they?
    I have no intention of getting Mike in trouble, but let’s just say that, as the Harvey Weinstein scandal and many others have shown, lots of young actresses waitresses in Hollywood are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their careers, and are willing to find unconventional sources of income in the meantime.
    I dare say Harry's bachelor activities wouldn't bear too much scrutiny. Of course he wouldn't have had to do any of it for advancement.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299
    edited April 2018
    Sandpit said:

    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems

    Absolutely. Many of my friends in Dubai have drained their pools, astonished by the cost of maintaining them. The developers loved the selling point of the pool without reference to the fact that it’s bloody expensive to keep it serviceable.
    Surely if you are in the have a pool group, and are worried about the associated maintenance costs, you should remove yourself from the group?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Gove was good on the radio this morning, I know he isn't universally liked but he seems the most legitimate of the next Tory leader brexiteer contenders to me.
    I think he'd make a competent PM, if unspectacular.

    I think he would be far better than that.

    His "bad" reputation stems from upsetting a powerful vested interest - public sector teachers - when he changed education such that it is now more for the benefit of the consumer (pupils, parents) not the supplier (NUT). To do this successfully he had to bypass the civil service - which made him a few more enemies.

    That's the Goveite spin but since a plurality of teachers voted Conservative, and probably we can take it that most teachers want to improve education else they'd be doing something else, they were probably on his side to start with. But Gove ignored normal political (and even managerial) tradecraft and treated everyone as an enemy. He also forgot to do the day job which is why his successor inherited a shortage of school places (which annoyed almost every parent in the land).

    Leaving education to one side, he upset the Cameroons by breaking ranks to front Brexit, the Remainers by winning, and the Boris fans by stabbing him in the back.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299
    edited April 2018

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    Only if the USA joins the Commonwealth.
    I know she did something on her religion, is she going to be naturalised British also (and then, after a horrible series of disasters, a la Kind Hearts & Coronets, be forced to prove to HMRC that she is eligible to become Queen)?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,598
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Fraser Nelson is appalled:

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/986841764936876032?s=21

    But he doesn’t make the connection to the viciously anti-immigration campaign that the referendum was won on. Far from this being the wrong Brexit, it was the Brexit voted for.

    It is interesting how quickly Brexiteers have gone from being part of a brutally racist campaign to the staunchest opponents of the Windrush deportations and Labour's anti-Semitism. I think it's called cognitive dissonance. Guido and his disciples would make good case studies
    It's called taking decisions based on their merits.
    No, Roger is right....become more divided.
    The Windrush generation are not being [insert emotive word here]

    A general policy of requiring people to provide their right to residency has been inflexibly applied.

    That is a mistake, but a bureaucratic one which has created a political problem. It will be fixed.
    With all due respect, it was not a bureaucratic mistake; rather a bureaucracy following a very clear lead set by ministers, May at their forefront.

    Sure, the particular Windrush fiasco was an unintended consequence, but the effort to render life impossible for all undocumented immigrants* (amongst whom a significant proportion are entirely entitled to permanent residence, as we have seen) was quite deliberate.

    *along with imperfectly documented immigrants.
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear - it was not a “bureaucratic mistake” but a “mistake which is administrative in nature and hence is simple to fix”.

    Fundamentally asking people to prove documentary proof of their right to reside is entirely reasonable. This is a small group of people no one thought about - that group obviously had the right to be here and have issues with their paperwork so a solution needs to be found.

    The vast majority of “undocumented immigrants” do not have the right to be here.
    Fair enough.. but those affected are not "a small group".

    As for the 'vast majority' not having the right to be here, why is the Home Office losing half of all immigration appeals ?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    Well quite. The inability of supposedly intelligent people to see that campaigning for a xenophobic Brexit will lead to a xenophobic culture is quite staggering.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    edited April 2018
    Sandpit said:

    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems

    Absolutely. Many of my friends in Dubai have drained their pools, astonished by the cost of maintaining them. The developers loved the selling point of the pool without reference to the fact that it’s bloody expensive to keep it serviceable.
    I definitely remember seeing one with a property around the 250k mark (South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire area) when I was searching Rightmove for a house last year. It sounded great till I thought further and noted...

    i) The pool is where the entirety of the garden was.
    ii) It really isn't a substantial enough property to have a huge pool in the garden
    iii) It's going to cost a fortune to maintain, anyone with the means is going to be looking at higher end properties anyway.
    iv) The UK just ain't that warm.

    A 'silly house' as my other half called it ;)
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Nigelb said:

    As for the 'vast majority' not having the right to be here, why is the Home Office losing half of all immigration appeals ?

    Because only those with a very good case appeal?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems

    Absolutely. Many of my friends in Dubai have drained their pools, astonished by the cost of maintaining them. The developers loved the selling point of the pool without reference to the fact that it’s bloody expensive to keep it serviceable.
    Surely if you are in the have a pool group, and are worried about the associated maintenance costs, you should remove yourself from the group?
    I don’t have my own pool, live in an apartment block. Lots of HNWs are my customers though, and they baulk at the costs of keeping a pool operational. It’s $10-20k per year.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
    That is correct.

    Edit: why, of what relevance are they?
    I have no intention of getting Mike in trouble, but let’s just say that, as the Harvey Weinstein scandal and many others have shown, lots of young actresses waitresses in Hollywood are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their careers, and are willing to find unconventional sources of income in the meantime.
    I dare say Harry's bachelor activities wouldn't bear too much scrutiny. Of course he wouldn't have had to do any of it for advancement.
    Indeed, but the US media are not half as deferential to British royalty as the British media are.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems

    Absolutely. Many of my friends in Dubai have drained their pools, astonished by the cost of maintaining them. The developers loved the selling point of the pool without reference to the fact that it’s bloody expensive to keep it serviceable.
    I definitely remember seeing one with a property around the 250k mark (South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire area) when I was searching Rightmove for a house last year. It sounded great till I thought further and noted...

    i) The pool is where the entirety of the garden was.
    ii) It really isn't a substantial enough property to have a huge pool in the garden
    iii) It's going to cost a fortune to maintain, anyone with the means is going to be looking at higher end properties anyway.
    iv) The UK just ain't that warm.

    A 'silly house' as my other half called it ;)
    Swimming pools are always in the top 10 home improvement which don't add to salevalue.




  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Fraser Nelson is appalled:

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/986841764936876032?s=21

    But he doesn’t make the connection to the viciously anti-immigration campaign that the referendum was won on. Far from this being the wrong Brexit, it was the Brexit voted for.

    It is interesting how quickly Brexiteers have gone from being part of a brutally racist campaign to the staunchest opponents of the Windrush deportations and Labour's anti-Semitism. I think it's called cognitive dissonance. Guido and his disciples would make good case studies
    It's called taking decisions based on their merits.
    No, Roger is right....become more divided.
    The Windrush generation are not being [insert emotive word here]

    A general policy of requiring people to provide their right to residency has been inflexibly applied.

    That is a mistake, but a bureaucratic one which has created a political problem. It will be fixed.
    With all due respect, it was not a bureaucratic mistake; rather a bureaucracy following a very clear lead set by ministers, May at their forefront.

    Sure, the particular Windrush fiasco was an unintended consequence, but the effort to render life impossible for all undocumented immigrants* (amongst whom a significant proportion are entirely entitled to permanent residence, as we have seen) was quite deliberate.

    *along with imperfectly documented immigrants.
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear - it was not a “bureaucratic mistake” but a “mistake which is administrative in nature and hence is simple to fix”.

    Fundamentally asking people to prove documentary proof of their right to reside is entirely reasonable. This is a small group of people no one thought about - that group obviously had the right to be here and have issues with their paperwork so a solution needs to be found.

    The vast majority of “undocumented immigrants” do not have the right to be here.
    Fair enough.. but those affected are not "a small group".

    As for the 'vast majority' not having the right to be here, why is the Home Office losing half of all immigration appeals ?
    Because that number includes cases where there is something simple and easily rectifiable (a missing document for example) as well as more complex cases.

    I understand the unwillingness of the Hone Office to give wide discretion to front line staff but they should have a simpler process for rectification than throwing the whole application out and requiring rectification

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,598

    Nigelb said:

    As for the 'vast majority' not having the right to be here, why is the Home Office losing half of all immigration appeals ?

    Because only those with a very good case appeal?
    There seem to be an awful lot of them...

    https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2018-01-17/123516/
    The number of appeals allowed in the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) over the last three years is: 2014/2015 – 26,394; 2015/2016 – 20,539 and 2016/2017 – 23,275.

    Around 50% were successful, I believe.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned
    The total number of enforced returns from the UK, including those not directly from detention, decreased by 4% to 12,666 in the year ending March 2017 compared with 13,248 in the previous year. This includes 10,969 enforced removals and 1,697 other returns from detention. In the same period, there were 24,786 voluntary returns (excluding returns from detention)….
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Fraser Nelson is appalled:

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/986841764936876032?s=21

    But he doesn’t make the connection to the viciously anti-immigration campaign that the referendum was won on. Far from this being the wrong Brexit, it was the Brexit voted for.

    It is interesting how quickly Brexiteers have gone from being part of a brutally racist campaign to the staunchest opponents of the Windrush deportations and Labour's anti-Semitism. I think it's called cognitive dissonance. Guido and his disciples would make good case studies
    It's called taking decisions based on their merits.
    No, Roger is right....become more divided.
    The Windrush generation are not being [insert emotive word here]

    A general policy of requiring people to provide their right to residency has been inflexibly applied.

    That is a mistake, but a bureaucratic one which has created a political problem. It will be fixed.
    With all due respect, it was not a bureaucratic mistake; rather a bureaucracy following a very clear lead set by ministers, May at their forefront.

    Sure, the particular Windrush fiasco was an unintended consequence, but the effort to render life impossible for all undocumented immigrants* (amongst whom a significant proportion are entirely entitled to permanent residence, as we have seen) was quite deliberate.

    *along with imperfectly documented immigrants.
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear - it was not a “bureaucratic mistake” but a “mistake which is administrative in nature and hence is simple to fix”.

    Fundamentally asking people to prove documentary proof of their right to reside is entirely reasonable. This is a small group of people no one thought about - that group obviously had the right to be here and have issues with their paperwork so a solution needs to be found.

    The vast majority of “undocumented immigrants” do not have the right to be here.
    Fair enough.. but those affected are not "a small group".

    As for the 'vast majority' not having the right to be here, why is the Home Office losing half of all immigration appeals ?
    Because that number includes cases where there is something simple and easily rectifiable (a missing document for example) as well as more complex cases.

    I understand the unwillingness of the Hone Office to give wide discretion to front line staff but they should have a simpler process for rectification than throwing the whole application out and requiring rectification

    “Requiring appeal” I meant
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Fraser Nelson is appalled:

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/986841764936876032?s=21

    But he doesn’t make the connection to the viciously anti-immigration campaign that the referendum was won on. Far from this being the wrong Brexit, it was the Brexit voted for.


    A general policy of requiring people to provide their right to residency has been inflexibly applied.

    That is a mistake, but a bureaucratic one which has created a political problem. It will be fixed.
    With all due respect, it was not a bureaucratic mistake; rather a bureaucracy following a very clear lead set by ministers, May at their forefront.

    Sure, the particular Windrush fiasco was an unintended consequence, but the effort to render life impossible for all undocumented immigrants* (amongst whom a significant proportion are entirely entitled to permanent residence, as we have seen) was quite deliberate.

    *along with imperfectly documented immigrants.
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear - it was not a “bureaucratic mistake” but a “mistake which is administrative in nature and hence is simple to fix”.

    Fundamentally asking people to prove documentary proof of their right to reside is entirely reasonable. This is a small group of people no one thought about - that group obviously had the right to be here and have issues with their paperwork so a solution needs to be found.

    The vast majority of “undocumented immigrants” do not have the right to be here.
    Fair enough.. but those affected are not "a small group".

    As for the 'vast majority' not having the right to be here, why is the Home Office losing half of all immigration appeals ?
    Because that number includes cases where there is something simple and easily rectifiable (a missing document for example) as well as more complex cases.

    I understand the unwillingness of the Hone Office to give wide discretion to front line staff but they should have a simpler process for rectification than throwing the whole application out and requiring rectification

    Even if they don't allow front line staff to act as judge and jury.
    There should be a method to flag these cases up the command chain rather than throwing them out on a 'gotcha' principle.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    They should give it to Meghan.

    And I'm not even joking.
    If you’re not joking, you clearly never read the Hollywood gossip columns.
    That is correct.

    Edit: why, of what relevance are they?
    I have no intention of getting Mike in trouble, but let’s just say that, as the Harvey Weinstein scandal and many others have shown, lots of young actresses waitresses in Hollywood are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their careers, and are willing to find unconventional sources of income in the meantime.
    I dare say Harry's bachelor activities wouldn't bear too much scrutiny. Of course he wouldn't have had to do any of it for advancement.
    Thankfully we don't have to suffer puritans anymore. Harry enjoyed the single life ? Good on him says the nation.

    On other matters - Nicla is being flayed alive at FMQ's over CA. Bless.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems

    Absolutely. Many of my friends in Dubai have drained their pools, astonished by the cost of maintaining them. The developers loved the selling point of the pool without reference to the fact that it’s bloody expensive to keep it serviceable.
    I definitely remember seeing one with a property around the 250k mark (South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire area) when I was searching Rightmove for a house last year. It sounded great till I thought further and noted...

    i) The pool is where the entirety of the garden was.
    ii) It really isn't a substantial enough property to have a huge pool in the garden
    iii) It's going to cost a fortune to maintain, anyone with the means is going to be looking at higher end properties anyway.
    iv) The UK just ain't that warm.

    A 'silly house' as my other half called it ;)
    Swimming pools are always in the top 10 home improvement which don't add to salevalue.
    Is there any latitude in the U.K. where an outdoor pool actually makes sense?

    Lot of money to maintain for something that might get used a couple of days a year.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm aware how interested some pbers are (for some reason) in my Hungarian property.

    My swimming pool in Hungary is being drained and cleaned, but my pool guy tells me that the lid is seized up with limescale and has to be replaced.

    #firstworldproblems

    Absolutely. Many of my friends in Dubai have drained their pools, astonished by the cost of maintaining them. The developers loved the selling point of the pool without reference to the fact that it’s bloody expensive to keep it serviceable.
    I definitely remember seeing one with a property around the 250k mark (South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire area) when I was searching Rightmove for a house last year. It sounded great till I thought further and noted...

    i) The pool is where the entirety of the garden was.
    ii) It really isn't a substantial enough property to have a huge pool in the garden
    iii) It's going to cost a fortune to maintain, anyone with the means is going to be looking at higher end properties anyway.
    iv) The UK just ain't that warm.

    A 'silly house' as my other half called it ;)
    Swimming pools are always in the top 10 home improvement which don't add to salevalue.
    Is there any latitude in the U.K. where an outdoor pool actually makes sense?

    Lot of money to maintain for something that might get used a couple of days a year.
    Hot tub (sex pond) would get more use I suppose.



  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    Pulpstar said:


    iv) The UK just ain't that warm.

    Have you not stepped outside today? ;)
This discussion has been closed.