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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another day and another antisemitic issue that Corbyn has to f

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  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    tlg86 said:

    Can anyone guess what £299,000 gets you in Barnes, London?

    A dominatrix.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    looking at Mear One's twitter feed, I do find some of his other works a bit suspect:

    https://twitter.com/mearone/status/934570719328968704?s=19

    I know everybody's banging on about whether his murial is anti-Semitic or not (clue: oh God of course it is) but nobody is making another pertinent observation, namely: his work is absolutely rubbish. Kitsch without the humour, poorly representational, you'd be hard-pressed to find a good one. I bet he's got a shelf full of dragons. Graffiti art is tremendously difficult to pull off and those that do (eg Basquiat) shy away from doing accurate figures.

    (has another look at his art)

    AAAARGH! MY EYES!
    His art does make a weird and rather polluting impact, that is not easy to forget. Yet it is not quite in the league of "bad enough to be good" like the poetry of William Mcgonagall, or the films of Ed Wood.
    I know. I'm looking at it and going: how does he earn a living? Genuinely! It's like listening to teenage poetry.
    There's a market for everything.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    For TSE
    As a Latin gerund, referendum has no plural. The Latin plural gerundive 'referenda', meaning 'things to be referred', necessarily connotes a plurality of issues.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum

    So actually 2016 was a referenda since it covered the customs union, the single market, the Irish border, Euratom, the EAW, Europol, the EMA, the EBA and the ECJ to name a few...
    Referenda is a plural.

    Anyway, weren't all the consequences, both benefits and difficilties, of Leaving carefully spelt out to the electorate?
    And dispassionately discussed in detail?

    Or am I getting forgetful in my old age?
    Are you older than Mick Jagger?
    Yes, actually. Although I don't look it. He sings better than I do, though.
    You're completely tone deaf ??

  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    looking at Mear One's twitter feed, I do find some of his other works a bit suspect:

    https://twitter.com/mearone/status/934570719328968704?s=19

    I know everybody's banging on about whether his murial is anti-Semitic or not (clue: oh God of course it is) but nobody is making another pertinent observation, namely: his work is absolutely rubbish. Kitsch without the humour, poorly representational, you'd be hard-pressed to find a good one. I bet he's got a shelf full of dragons. Graffiti art is tremendously difficult to pull off and those that do (eg Basquiat) shy away from doing accurate figures.

    (has another look at his art)

    AAAARGH! MY EYES!
    His art does make a weird and rather polluting impact, that is not easy to forget. Yet it is not quite in the league of "bad enough to be good" like the poetry of William Mcgonagall, or the films of Ed Wood.
    I know. I'm looking at it and going: how does he earn a living? Genuinely! It's like listening to teenage poetry.
    As a precocious teenager, Stalin had a surprising talent for romantic poetry.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/may/19/featuresreviews.guardianreview32
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782
    geoffw said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    looking at Mear One's twitter feed, I do find some of his other works a bit suspect:

    https://twitter.com/mearone/status/934570719328968704?s=19

    I know everybody's banging on about whether his murial is anti-Semitic or not (clue: oh God of course it is) but nobody is making another pertinent observation, namely: his work is absolutely rubbish. Kitsch without the humour, poorly representational, you'd be hard-pressed to find a good one. I bet he's got a shelf full of dragons. Graffiti art is tremendously difficult to pull off and those that do (eg Basquiat) shy away from doing accurate figures.

    (has another look at his art)

    AAAARGH! MY EYES!
    His art does make a weird and rather polluting impact, that is not easy to forget. Yet it is not quite in the league of "bad enough to be good" like the poetry of William Mcgonagall, or the films of Ed Wood.
    I know. I'm looking at it and going: how does he earn a living? Genuinely! It's like listening to teenage poetry.
    As a precocious teenager, Stalin had a surprising talent for romantic poetry.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/may/19/featuresreviews.guardianreview32
    Well I'll go to Hell and back, I did not know that, thank you.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic has anyone seen or got a picture of this mural? Just how obvious was it that it was anti-Semitic?

    Here you go.

    image
    Thanks. Pardon my ignorance but are the Illuminati supposed to be Jewish?
    Shocking slur against fine, upstanding Masons also..
    I think that both the Masons and the Illuminati have used the eye in the pyramid so it could be both. Of course one of the 2 has the advantage of actually existing.

    I accept that the anti-Semitic thing is there now that TSE has pointed it out but I would not accept it is obvious.
    Well the Masonic eye thingy does appear on the dollar bill, so I suppose Corbyn could argue that he was simply defending an attack on fiat money.....
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Can anyone guess what £299,000 gets you in Barnes, London?

    A shed?
    A block of five garages.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    I'll file this under not shocking and not likely news

    Plaid Cymru 'would hold Wales independence referendum'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-43520301

    I know they want to be like the SNP in ambition, but perhaps more modest goals along the way could be tried, like regaining second place in the assembly.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614
    geoffw said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    looking at Mear One's twitter feed, I do find some of his other works a bit suspect:

    https://twitter.com/mearone/status/934570719328968704?s=19

    I know everybody's banging on about whether his murial is anti-Semitic or not (clue: oh God of course it is) but nobody is making another pertinent observation, namely: his work is absolutely rubbish. Kitsch without the humour, poorly representational, you'd be hard-pressed to find a good one. I bet he's got a shelf full of dragons. Graffiti art is tremendously difficult to pull off and those that do (eg Basquiat) shy away from doing accurate figures.

    (has another look at his art)

    AAAARGH! MY EYES!
    His art does make a weird and rather polluting impact, that is not easy to forget. Yet it is not quite in the league of "bad enough to be good" like the poetry of William Mcgonagall, or the films of Ed Wood.
    I know. I'm looking at it and going: how does he earn a living? Genuinely! It's like listening to teenage poetry.
    As a precocious teenager, Stalin had a surprising talent for romantic poetry.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/may/19/featuresreviews.guardianreview32
    Bit like the Vogons...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614
    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    Think about it - no one says labiums.....
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/why-the-plural-of-referendum-must-be-referendums/
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    I know. Which is the point I made below. And we've looped.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782
    edited March 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    Think about it - no one says labiums.....
    (blows chunks out of nose all over keyboard)

    LADEEZ AND GENNELMENNNN, WE HAS A WINNER!
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Can anyone guess what £299,000 gets you in Barnes, London?

    A shed?
    A block of five garages.
    Do they have planning permission to be converted into luxury pied-a-terre executive apartments ?
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    kle4 said:

    I'll file this under not shocking and not likely news

    Plaid Cymru 'would hold Wales independence referendum'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-43520301

    I know they want to be like the SNP in ambition, but perhaps more modest goals along the way could be tried, like regaining second place in the assembly.

    Actually they would hold one “at the end of a second term of Plaid govt”. One assumes that would have to be a majority govt.

    Don’t hold your breath.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    looking at Mear One's twitter feed, I do find some of his other works a bit suspect:

    https://twitter.com/mearone/status/934570719328968704?s=19

    I know everybody's banging on about whether his murial is anti-Semitic or not (clue: oh God of course it is) but nobody is making another pertinent observation, namely: his work is absolutely rubbish. Kitsch without the humour, poorly representational, you'd be hard-pressed to find a good one. I bet he's got a shelf full of dragons. Graffiti art is tremendously difficult to pull off and those that do (eg Basquiat) shy away from doing accurate figures.

    (has another look at his art)

    AAAARGH! MY EYES!
    His art does make a weird and rather polluting impact, that is not easy to forget. Yet it is not quite in the league of "bad enough to be good" like the poetry of William Mcgonagall, or the films of Ed Wood.
    I know. I'm looking at it and going: how does he earn a living? Genuinely! It's like listening to teenage poetry.
    There's a market for everything.
    Say's law, I think.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic has anyone seen or got a picture of this mural? Just how obvious was it that it was anti-Semitic?

    It was linked on a tweet a few threads back.

    I’m a bit dense sometimes but even I got this one...

    A group of smirking fat old people with big noses sitting chortling around a pile of money with the masonic pyramid/eye above them
    The guy on the right looks disturbingly like Warren Mitchell.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    Think about it - no one says labiums.....
    What the bloody hell does that have to do with anything I said, you patronising numpty? "Think about it" ffs.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614
    edited March 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    Think about it - no one says labiums.....
    What the bloody hell does that have to do with anything I said, you patronising numpty? "Think about it" ffs.
    If I have offended you, then I sincerely apologise. The intention was humorous; if it missed the mark then I hold my hands up.
    I was merely pointing out that automatically rejecting the Latinate form is just silly.

  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    TGOHF said:
    One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter. Always has been, always will be...
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    I know. Which is the point I made below. And we've looped.
    So treat it like the English noun that it is, already!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    Think about it - no one says labiums.....
    What the bloody hell does that have to do with anything I said, you patronising numpty? "Think about it" ffs.
    If I have offended you, then I sincerely apologise. The intention was humorous; if it missed the mark then I hold my hands up.
    I was merely pointing out that automatically rejecting the Latinate form is just silly.

    My bugbear is double plurals. Loan words like blinis which were already plural and don't need to be pluralised in English.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/why-the-plural-of-referendum-must-be-referendums/
    Can't be arsed to follow link. BTW although data is the accepted plural of datum in the sense of "piece of information of the type we are considering" (and indeed many/most people don't realise data is a plural at all), the plural of the technical term chart datum (the line round the land drawn by the very, very lowest astronomical tide ever) is always and everywhere, chart datums. Perhaps we should consider the possibility that plural forms are created ad hoc, on a case by case basis, without reference to any overarching rule?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Can anyone guess what £299,000 gets you in Barnes, London?

    A shed?
    A block of five garages.
    Do they have planning permission to be converted into luxury pied-a-terre executive apartments ?
    No. But this does:

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-71932274.html
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Can anyone guess what £299,000 gets you in Barnes, London?

    A shed?
    A block of five garages.
    Do they have planning permission to be converted into luxury pied-a-terre executive apartments ?
    Nope. I can't find a link on the internet but the blurb was:

    This unique block of five garages are set in a quiet residential location in Barnes SW13. Comprising of two double garages and one single garage which could be converted back into five single garages. The whole block of five garages could be rented out for approximately 995 pcm. In excellent condition, the garages have been refurbished with new roofing, the interiors have been redecorated and floors coated with special paint. Accessed via a private entrance and are very close to bus links and Barnes Bridge.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    Think about it - no one says labiums.....
    What the bloody hell does that have to do with anything I said, you patronising numpty? "Think about it" ffs.
    If I have offended you, then I sincerely apologise. The intention was humorous; if it missed the mark then I hold my hands up.
    I was merely pointing out that automatically rejecting the Latinate form is just silly.

    Sorry, perhaps I overreacted.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:


    If I have offended you, then I sincerely apologise. The intention was humorous; if it missed the mark then I hold my hands up.
    I was merely pointing out that automatically rejecting the Latinate form is just silly.

    Don't apologise, it was something that amused viewcode, myself, and undoubtedly others no end.
  • Options
    Seems to be a lot of talk alleging vote.leave broke the law.

    No doubt there will be denials and I assume the allegations will be looked into.

    But is anyone seriously saying that Brexit will be stopped because of this.

    And if they are please explain how and the time it would take as it must follow that legal challenges would go on forever.

    Really interested in an informed view on this and this forum is a good place to receive that information.

  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    I know. Which is the point I made below. And we've looped.
    So treat it like the English noun that it is, already!
    I am.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited March 2018

    I don't think Corbyn is an anti-Semite, he's just thick.

    Maybe. But generally how can anybody be anti-Semitic? And anyway does that include Arabs?
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    murali_s said:

    TGOHF said:
    One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter. Always has been, always will be...
    It is quite hard to see burning people alive as freedom fighting. But I am sure the Quartermaster has found a way to justify it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    Think about it - no one says labiums.....
    What the bloody hell does that have to do with anything I said, you patronising numpty? "Think about it" ffs.
    If I have offended you, then I sincerely apologise. The intention was humorous; if it missed the mark then I hold my hands up.
    I was merely pointing out that automatically rejecting the Latinate form is just silly.

    Sorry, perhaps I overreacted.
    t

    No problem - the comment was aimed at the general discussion rather than at you personally; I could have been clearer.

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,614

    Nigelb said:


    If I have offended you, then I sincerely apologise. The intention was humorous; if it missed the mark then I hold my hands up.
    I was merely pointing out that automatically rejecting the Latinate form is just silly.

    Don't apologise, it was something that amused viewcode, myself, and undoubtedly others no end.
    I'm always happy to apologise for unintended offence; intended not so much.

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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Converting a Latin non-noun into an English noun should be a two-step process. The article you've cut-and-pasted assumes that it was converted into an English noun in one step and that the plural form should be formed using English rules thereafter.

    It would be equally legitimate (and arguably more legitimate!) to change the Latin non-noun into a Latin noun, then form the plural from the Latin noun using Latin rules, then translate that into an English plural noun.

    The former gives you "referendums". The latter gives you "referenda".

    Given that we are speaking English, and not Latin, on this blog, the English plural noun should be the preferred option, no?
    I agree that we should use the English plural noun. But we are disagreeing what the English plural noun is... :)

    The one ending in "-ums", of course! ;)
    Remind me again about the plural noun "media" and "data". Especially what they are the plural noun of... :)
    Those come straight from Latin nouns. Referendum is NOT a Latin noun!
    Nah, datum is a past participle (of do, I give) and medium is an adjective.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/why-the-plural-of-referendum-must-be-referendums/
    Can't be arsed to follow link. BTW although data is the accepted plural of datum in the sense of "piece of information of the type we are considering" (and indeed many/most people don't realise data is a plural at all), the plural of the technical term chart datum (the line round the land drawn by the very, very lowest astronomical tide ever) is always and everywhere, chart datums. Perhaps we should consider the possibility that plural forms are created ad hoc, on a case by case basis, without reference to any overarching rule?
    Yes, and there's plenty of those ad hocum about! :smile:
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    murali_s said:

    TGOHF said:
    One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter. Always has been, always will be...
    It is quite hard to see burning people alive as freedom fighting. But I am sure the Quartermaster has found a way to justify it.
    He'd probably say she deserved it, and that would be enough for Corbyn's followers.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782

    Seems to be a lot of talk alleging vote.leave broke the law.

    No doubt there will be denials and I assume the allegations will be looked into.

    But is anyone seriously saying that Brexit will be stopped because of this.

    And if they are please explain how and the time it would take as it must follow that legal challenges would go on forever.

    Really interested in an informed view on this and this forum is a good place to receive that information.

    I will be very surprised if Brexit is halted because of this. We have jumped out of the plane, and arguing that we did so under false pretences is only of academic interest at this point. We have twelve months to Brexit day and I can't envisage a logistically feasible method of getting from here to "nah, only kidding, my fingers were crossed" in that time. For good or ill we are leaving.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    viewcode said:

    I will be very surprised if Brexit is halted because of this. We have jumped out of the plane, and arguing that we did so under false pretences is only of academic interest at this point. We have twelve months to Brexit day and I can't envisage a logistically feasible method of getting from here to "nah, only kidding, my fingers were crossed" in that time. For good or ill we are leaving.

    The withdrawal agreement will include the backstop solution for Northern Ireland. If Theresa May means what she says, this will have to be a trigger for her to go for a referendum on the deal.
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    viewcode said:

    Seems to be a lot of talk alleging vote.leave broke the law.

    No doubt there will be denials and I assume the allegations will be looked into.

    But is anyone seriously saying that Brexit will be stopped because of this.

    And if they are please explain how and the time it would take as it must follow that legal challenges would go on forever.

    Really interested in an informed view on this and this forum is a good place to receive that information.

    I will be very surprised if Brexit is halted because of this. We have jumped out of the plane, and arguing that we did so under false pretences is only of academic interest at this point. We have twelve months to Brexit day and I can't envisage a logistically feasible method of getting from here to "nah, only kidding, my fingers were crossed" in that time. For good or ill we are leaving.
    Thank you for your reply. Seems eminently sensible and just hope we arrive at a decent Associate Membership
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Seems to be a lot of talk alleging vote.leave broke the law.

    No doubt there will be denials and I assume the allegations will be looked into.

    But is anyone seriously saying that Brexit will be stopped because of this.

    And if they are please explain how and the time it would take as it must follow that legal challenges would go on forever.

    Really interested in an informed view on this and this forum is a good place to receive that information.

    I think Brexit being stopped at this stage on a technicality is politically just impossible. OTOH Brexiteer cricket fans should think carefully about the implications before they start calling for the recent Ashes series to be reopened as a result of tampergate.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    And what are they hoping to actually achieve with a complaint nearly two years after the event?
    To take away the legitimacy of the Leave victory. If a parliamentary candidate was found to have cheated over expenses then the result could be annuled.
    The Referendum was advisory. Parliament voted to trigger Article 50 by a substantial majority.
    Quite right. Referenda are bad enough, but if you start quibbling over them and annulling them then we're in a very poor place. In my view we're just about going to get out of the referndum conundrum by actually delivering on Brexit. This has only been possible because the Remaniners ground wasn't well founded. Neither was the Brexit ground, but that doesn't really count now.

    Once clear of Brexit I hope that we only ever have referenda on issues that can be immediately decided.
    Do you support a referendum on banning referenda?
    Can we use referendums as the plural instead of the referenda which sounds poncy?
    No, I'm very proud of my A* in Latin.

    I'm as fanatical about gerundive forms/Latin as I am about pineapple on pizza.

    I'll be happy to use plebiscites as a compromise though.

    Honestly you should see me when someone uses 'dominatrixes' as the plural of dominatrix instead of dominatrices.
    I would have taken Latin if it had been available as a subject at my school.
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    viewcode said:

    I will be very surprised if Brexit is halted because of this. We have jumped out of the plane, and arguing that we did so under false pretences is only of academic interest at this point. We have twelve months to Brexit day and I can't envisage a logistically feasible method of getting from here to "nah, only kidding, my fingers were crossed" in that time. For good or ill we are leaving.

    The withdrawal agreement will include the backstop solution for Northern Ireland. If Theresa May means what she says, this will have to be a trigger for her to go for a referendum on the deal.
    You are very repetitive. I think that door closed with the sacking of Owen Smith
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Newus Threadus

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067

    viewcode said:

    I will be very surprised if Brexit is halted because of this. We have jumped out of the plane, and arguing that we did so under false pretences is only of academic interest at this point. We have twelve months to Brexit day and I can't envisage a logistically feasible method of getting from here to "nah, only kidding, my fingers were crossed" in that time. For good or ill we are leaving.

    The withdrawal agreement will include the backstop solution for Northern Ireland. If Theresa May means what she says, this will have to be a trigger for her to go for a referendum on the deal.
    You are very repetitive. I think that door closed with the sacking of Owen Smith
    Why does Owen Smith come into Theresa May's calculus? If she stood on the steps of Downing Street and said the deal had to be put to the people, do you really think Labour could get away with voting against the referendum?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    murali_s said:

    TGOHF said:
    One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter. Always has been, always will be...
    It is quite hard to see burning people alive as freedom fighting. But I am sure the Quartermaster has found a way to justify it.
    Google "Mandela necklace."
  • Options

    viewcode said:

    I will be very surprised if Brexit is halted because of this. We have jumped out of the plane, and arguing that we did so under false pretences is only of academic interest at this point. We have twelve months to Brexit day and I can't envisage a logistically feasible method of getting from here to "nah, only kidding, my fingers were crossed" in that time. For good or ill we are leaving.

    The withdrawal agreement will include the backstop solution for Northern Ireland. If Theresa May means what she says, this will have to be a trigger for her to go for a referendum on the deal.
    You are very repetitive. I think that door closed with the sacking of Owen Smith
    Why does Owen Smith come into Theresa May's calculus? If she stood on the steps of Downing Street and said the deal had to be put to the people, do you really think Labour could get away with voting against the referendum?
    New thread and nothing will change
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782

    viewcode said:

    Seems to be a lot of talk alleging vote.leave broke the law.

    No doubt there will be denials and I assume the allegations will be looked into.

    But is anyone seriously saying that Brexit will be stopped because of this.

    And if they are please explain how and the time it would take as it must follow that legal challenges would go on forever.

    Really interested in an informed view on this and this forum is a good place to receive that information.

    I will be very surprised if Brexit is halted because of this. We have jumped out of the plane, and arguing that we did so under false pretences is only of academic interest at this point. We have twelve months to Brexit day and I can't envisage a logistically feasible method of getting from here to "nah, only kidding, my fingers were crossed" in that time. For good or ill we are leaving.
    Thank you for your reply. Seems eminently sensible and just hope we arrive at a decent Associate Membership
    Indeed. My headcanon says it'll called "The EU/UK Association Agreement", although it'll be referred to in the Anglophone press as ""The UK/EU Association Agreement". If it ends up actually being called that IRL, I get bagsies on it... :)
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782
    AndyJS said:

    I would have taken Latin if it had been available as a subject at my school.

    It was and I did. It was interesting but useless. Although I have used "festina lente" in real life, and the "Caesar had some jam for tea" joke still makes me giggle, but ultimately I don't think it was the best use of my time.

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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:


    If I have offended you, then I sincerely apologise. The intention was humorous; if it missed the mark then I hold my hands up.
    I was merely pointing out that automatically rejecting the Latinate form is just silly.

    Don't apologise, it was something that amused viewcode, myself, and undoubtedly others no end.
    I'm always happy to apologise for unintended offence; intended not so much.

    You are a gentleman Nigel
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    I would have taken Latin if it had been available as a subject at my school.

    It was and I did. It was interesting but useless. Although I have used "festina lente" in real life, and the "Caesar had some jam for tea" joke still makes me giggle, but ultimately I don't think it was the best use of my time.

    Interesting view on the subject.
This discussion has been closed.