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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Democrats now odds on favourite to take Pennsylvania 18 –

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,553
    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    Irrespective of whether the Democrats snatch the House seat today, I think people this side of the ocean underestimate the level of mobilisation against the Trump presidency amongst Democrats and, critically, independents. Motivation is very high indeed. On the other hand a slice of the GOP voter base is pretty dispirited. The GOP cannot just rely on its traditional core but a core that has some of its own less motivated to vote.

    Despite the stock standard assessment that the mid terms are tough for Democrats there is every chance of a large overperformance.

    Trump has a 42% approval rating with likely/registered voters according to 538. Do you think that's a good or bad rating for Trump at this stage?
    We shall find out within a few hours how motivated the Democrats are.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited March 2018
    Lamb needs a 14% swing from 2012 (last time the seat was contested), across the CD. I'm going to try and work out how much of a swing he is getting, if I can...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    So are Italy, USA, China and India.

    If we get an alternative WC organised we'd have most of the world population.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Future of 1p and 2p coins questioned by Treasury"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43388662
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    I've just noticed that the OBS is predicting £45bn borrowing for 2017/18.

    If in six weeks its announced at under £40bn they'll have destroyed even more of their credibility.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,806
    AndyJS said:

    "Future of 1p and 2p coins questioned by Treasury"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43388662

    About bloody time.
  • kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Future of 1p and 2p coins questioned by Treasury"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43388662

    About bloody time.
    The former Permanent Secretary at the Treasury tweets

    https://twitter.com/nickmacpherson2/status/973694788175265794
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495

    Wrong.

    Someone called it right downthread, it was inflation - caused by the fall in the pound - reducing our real wages.

    Reducing consumption maybe necessary, but that doesn’t mean we should sign up to years more of wage stagnation. Or it didn’t, before Brexit.

    The UK had the highest balance of payments deficit on record in 2016 and the highest balance of payments deficit in the western world.

    And you think that sterling needed to have a higher value ?

    Now lets consider what would have happened if sterling had a higher value - the trade deficit wouldn't have fallen, manufacturing output would be lower, the tourism deficit would be higher as the UK lived even further beyond its means that it has been doing.

    Do you think this country can continually consume more wealth that it produces ?

    Please answer that - its the issue supporters of Osbrowne economics have been ignoring for over a decade.
    You are now changing the subject, onto your Osbrowne economics hobbyhorse.

    I agree that Osbrownianism was unsustainable, if you mean an economy built on debt-fuelled consumption, inflated house prices, etc. The hard but sustainable way to address that is to deflate the bubble and incentivise increase in savings.

    But I’m talking about Brexit, which as we see has - via inflation - had a real effect on our spending power. We now have less (relatively) money to allocate to anything - whether spending OR saving.

    PS Please expand on this “tourism deficit”. It sounds awkwardly as if we must all spend our summers in Skegness.
    The tourism deficit is simply the excess of spending by UK visitors abroad to the spending in the UK by foreign visitors:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#International_tourism_receipts

    You might notice that while some countries, eg
    Tourism deficit: we will *always* have a tourism deficit. People generally want to holiday in warmer climes.

    Savings: As @rcs1000 often points out, this in inversely related to imports.

    Brexit: completely irrelevant to the points you are making, except it reduces our export opportunities, has increased inflation because of weak sterling, and reduced FDI. None of which is going to help get out of “Osbrownism”, it just makes everyone poorer and everything harder.

    The only economic case for Brexit I give credence to is that restrictions on FOM might force businesses to be more productive rather than rely on cheap labour. But I haven’t seen anyone make this case persuasively, it is only an interesting line of enquiry.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546

    Matt is the Don Bradman of cartoonists.

    image

    I'm not the biggest fan of Matt but that is very good.
    In the undemocratic republic of Smithsonia, I was under the impression that admitting to not being a fan of Matt was in the same level of offence to the great leaders son as questioning the quality of Radiohead's entire back catalogue...And could result in 30 days on the naughty step.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905


    You are now changing the subject, onto your Osbrowne economics hobbyhorse.

    I agree that Osbrownianism was unsustainable, if you mean an economy built on debt-fuelled consumption, inflated house prices, etc. The hard but sustainable way to address that is to deflate the bubble and incentivise increase in savings.

    But I’m talking about Brexit, which as we see has - via inflation - had a real effect on our spending power. We now have less (relatively) money to allocate to anything - whether spending OR saving.

    PS Please expand on this “tourism deficit”. It sounds awkwardly as if we must all spend our summers in Skegness.

    The tourism deficit is simply the excess of spending by UK visitors abroad to the spending in the UK by foreign visitors:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#International_tourism_receipts

    You might notice that while some countries, eg
    Tourism deficit: we will *always* have a tourism deficit. People generally want to holiday in warmer climes.

    Savings: As @rcs1000 often points out, this in inversely related to imports.

    Brexit: completely irrelevant to the points you are making, except it reduces our export opportunities, has increased inflation because of weak sterling, and reduced FDI. None of which is going to help get out of “Osbrownism”, it just makes everyone poorer and everything harder.

    The only economic case for Brexit I give credence to is that restrictions on FOM might force businesses to be more productive rather than rely on cheap labour. But I haven’t seen anyone make this case persuasively, it is only an interesting line of enquiry.
    So you're happy to have a permanent tourism deficit and want cheaper imports at the cost of more expensive exports.

    And who among the Remain leadership, or political establishment as a whole, has advocated reducing consumption by increasing savings ?

    We know that's not going to happen because politicians want more wealth consumption becuase that leads to more votes and more 'growth'. And if that means stealing the wealth of the future that's a price they willing pay.

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    And if that means 5p extra on fishfingers and marginally less imported tat being bought then that's a price we will have to pay.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495


    You are now changing the subject, onto your Osbrowne economics hobbyhorse.

    I agree that Osbrownianism was unsustainable, if you mean an economy built on debt-fuelled consumption, inflated house prices, etc. The hard but sustainable way to address that is to deflate the bubble and incentivise increase in savings.

    But I’m talking about Brexit, which as we see has - via inflation - had a real effect on our spending power. We now have less (relatively) money to allocate to anything - whether spending OR saving.

    PS Please expand on this “tourism deficit”. It sounds awkwardly as if we must all spend our summers in Skegness.

    The tourism deficit is simply the excess of spending by UK visitors abroad to the spending in the UK by foreign visitors:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#International_tourism_receipts

    You might notice that while some countries, eg
    Tourism deficit: we will *always* have a tourism deficit. People generally want to holiday in warmer climes.

    Savings: As @rcs1000 often points out, this in inversely related to imports.

    Brexit: completely irrelevant to the points you are making, except it reduces our export opportunities, has increased inflation because of weak sterling, and reduced FDI. None of which is going to help get out of “Osbrownism”, it just makes everyone poorer and everything harder.

    The only economic case for Brexit I give credence to is that restrictions on FOM might force businesses to be more productive rather than rely on cheap labour. But I haven’t seen anyone make this case persuasively, it is only an interesting line of enquiry.
    So you're happy to have a permanent tourism deficit and want cheaper imports at the cost of more expensive exports.

    And who among the Remain leadership, or political establishment as a whole, has advocated reducing consumption by increasing savings ?

    We know that's not going to happen because politicians want more wealth consumption becuase that leads to more votes and more 'growth'. And if that means stealing the wealth of the future that's a price they willing pay.

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    And if that means 5p extra on fishfingers and marginally less imported tat being bought then that's a price we will have to pay.
    You keep trying to make Brexit about “Osbrownism”. You really are a tiresome troll. Goodnight.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    I've just noticed that the OBS is predicting £45bn borrowing for 2017/18.

    If in six weeks its announced at under £40bn they'll have destroyed even more of their credibility.

    I'll donate £100 to charity if the out-turn for the year, let's say as revised by August, is £45bn.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    If it was that easy the British economy would be in great shape after the numerous devaluations experienced over the last many decades.

    In this wider context Brexit is neither here nor there. Whether we are in the EU or not there's a huge amount of work to be done to avoid further Sterling devaluations in the 2020s, 30s and onward to some final reckoning.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905


    The tourism deficit is simply the excess of spending by UK visitors abroad to the spending in the UK by foreign visitors:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#International_tourism_receipts

    You might notice that while some countries, eg

    Tourism deficit: we will *always* have a tourism deficit. People generally want to holiday in warmer climes.

    Savings: As @rcs1000 often points out, this in inversely related to imports.

    Brexit: completely irrelevant to the points you are making, except it reduces our export opportunities, has increased inflation because of weak sterling, and reduced FDI. None of which is going to help get out of “Osbrownism”, it just makes everyone poorer and everything harder.

    The only economic case for Brexit I give credence to is that restrictions on FOM might force businesses to be more productive rather than rely on cheap labour. But I haven’t seen anyone make this case persuasively, it is only an interesting line of enquiry.
    So you're happy to have a permanent tourism deficit and want cheaper imports at the cost of more expensive exports.

    And who among the Remain leadership, or political establishment as a whole, has advocated reducing consumption by increasing savings ?

    We know that's not going to happen because politicians want more wealth consumption becuase that leads to more votes and more 'growth'. And if that means stealing the wealth of the future that's a price they willing pay.

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    And if that means 5p extra on fishfingers and marginally less imported tat being bought then that's a price we will have to pay.
    You keep trying to make Brexit about “Osbrownism”. You really are a tiresome troll. Goodnight.
    So its insults because you don't want to deal with the reality.

    Brexit isn't about Osbrownism but Remaining would have been.

    George Osborne would have continued as Chancellor and the economic strategy would have continued to be more borrowed money funding more spending on more imports and behind that higher house prices.

    If you doubt that then give a list of the politicians who advocate reducing consumption by increasing savings.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    edited March 2018
    The power of amateur hobby School governors to over-ride professionals. Don't get me started.
    edit... This seems particularly egregious however...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905

    I've just noticed that the OBS is predicting £45bn borrowing for 2017/18.

    If in six weeks its announced at under £40bn they'll have destroyed even more of their credibility.

    I'll donate £100 to charity if the out-turn for the year, let's say as revised by August, is £45bn.
    The people making OBR and Treasury forecasts should have their earnings dependent upon the accuracy of their predictions.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Right.

    I have about three quarters of all reporting precincts set up to compare against 2012.Maggi's loss then, by the way, was enough to ensure that he lost 95% of all precincts.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    If it was that easy the British economy would be in great shape after the numerous devaluations experienced over the last many decades.

    In this wider context Brexit is neither here nor there. Whether we are in the EU or not there's a huge amount of work to be done to avoid further Sterling devaluations in the 2020s, 30s and onward to some final reckoning.
    The pattern goes:

    (1) The UK lives beyond its means
    (2) Sterling falls in value after political crisis
    (3) The UK's exports are boosted at the expense of consumption
    (4) Politicians encourage extra consumption to get votes
    (5) Return to (1)

    The UK needs to live within its means and increase consumption only when increased exports and productivity allows.

    I see little likelihood of that happening by choice.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905

    Right.

    I have about three quarters of all reporting precincts set up to compare against 2012.Maggi's loss then, by the way, was enough to ensure that he lost 95% of all precincts.

    When are the results expected ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,927
    Well, it's midnight. Doesn't look as though Putin has complied with May's ultimatum....

    "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently....."
    What next ?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Right.

    I have about three quarters of all reporting precincts set up to compare against 2012.Maggi's loss then, by the way, was enough to ensure that he lost 95% of all precincts.

    When are the results expected ?
    First results twenty minutes (some precincts have ~30 electors)... beyond that... could be a long one :)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    Nigelb said:

    Well, it's midnight. Doesn't look as though Putin has complied with May's ultimatum....

    "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently....."
    What next ?

    Hopefully NOT we are at war with Germany.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720
    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:

    nielh said:

    nielh said:

    Roger said:

    Just watching Trump Tillerson and Co. It's difficult imagining what they could have been going through their heads when they voted for this man. I'd sooner have Putin any day of the week with or without Novichok.

    Thats how it plays out with a lot of people. Putin comes across as a lot smarter than Trump.

    Whilst I might argue Putin is smarter, as an international leader anyway, my preference would be for the incompetent person I think is bad rather than the competent one.
    The difference is simple: the US has (for the moment at least) a bureaucracy that can prevent Trump doing many bad things (though not all). There is a congress that can act as a brake as well, and a media that can try to hold him to account.

    In the case of Putin, he is the government now. He has very few checks and balances on what he does, and a media that are either in his control, or fearful for their lives.

    This is why Roger's comment below is so ridiculous. People like him would be forced to make a choice very quickly: either support the regime or be unemployed or worse.
    Yep. Its like my finnish friend said, noone dreams of emigrating to russia.
    Plenty of people from the periphery of the former Soviet Union do. Moscow is full of immigrants in that sense.
    In general terms though, people are attracted to regimes where you don't live in constant fear of the state.
    Surely it is that they are repelled by regimes where you do live in constant fear of the state? Which may sound like a distinction without a difference but I think does leave people who don't have that experience less deeply rooted in democracy than is realised.
    I'm honestly not sure. I get the idea that many people in China are pretty relaxed about being in constant fear of the state.



    The Chinese State is pretty nasty, but that's a big improvement from being utterly genocidal,under Mao. So, people are fairly content.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    Nigelb said:

    Well, it's midnight. Doesn't look as though Putin has complied with May's ultimatum....

    "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently....."
    What next ?

    We could poison someone in retaliation.

    If Roman Abramavich met a sudden end would he be liable to pay IHT ?

    :wink:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,135
    Nigelb said:

    Well, it's midnight. Doesn't look as though Putin has complied with May's ultimatum....

    "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently....."
    What next ?

    A bit early to jump to conclusions, especially as such discussions would be done in secret, not in public.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    If it was that easy the British economy would be in great shape after the numerous devaluations experienced over the last many decades.

    In this wider context Brexit is neither here nor there. Whether we are in the EU or not there's a huge amount of work to be done to avoid further Sterling devaluations in the 2020s, 30s and onward to some final reckoning.
    The pattern goes:

    (1) The UK lives beyond its means
    (2) Sterling falls in value after political crisis
    (3) The UK's exports are boosted at the expense of consumption
    (4) Politicians encourage extra consumption to get votes
    (5) Return to (1)

    The UK needs to live within its means and increase consumption only when increased exports and productivity allows.

    I see little likelihood of that happening by choice.
    Yes. The Brexit devaluation is little different in that respect. There's no fundamental change in political strategy. The political imperative to demonstrate that Brexit is a success looks likely to encourage more of the same.

    When it finally catches up with the country it will not end well.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    If it was that easy the British economy would be in great shape after the numerous devaluations experienced over the last many decades.

    In this wider context Brexit is neither here nor there. Whether we are in the EU or not there's a huge amount of work to be done to avoid further Sterling devaluations in the 2020s, 30s and onward to some final reckoning.
    The pattern goes:

    (1) The UK lives beyond its means
    (2) Sterling falls in value after political crisis
    (3) The UK's exports are boosted at the expense of consumption
    (4) Politicians encourage extra consumption to get votes
    (5) Return to (1)

    The UK needs to live within its means and increase consumption only when increased exports and productivity allows.

    I see little likelihood of that happening by choice.
    However, voters do not, in the main, reward politicians who deliver good government.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Sean_F said:

    The only way the UK economy can be rebalanced is against its will and that's through a lower ie more competitive value for sterling.

    If it was that easy the British economy would be in great shape after the numerous devaluations experienced over the last many decades.

    In this wider context Brexit is neither here nor there. Whether we are in the EU or not there's a huge amount of work to be done to avoid further Sterling devaluations in the 2020s, 30s and onward to some final reckoning.
    The pattern goes:

    (1) The UK lives beyond its means
    (2) Sterling falls in value after political crisis
    (3) The UK's exports are boosted at the expense of consumption
    (4) Politicians encourage extra consumption to get votes
    (5) Return to (1)

    The UK needs to live within its means and increase consumption only when increased exports and productivity allows.

    I see little likelihood of that happening by choice.
    However, voters do not, in the main, reward politicians who deliver good government.
    The experiment has not been attempted. A bit premature to declare it a failure.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited March 2018
    First result, Lamb gets a huge swing against 2012. Will it be enough??
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited March 2018
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    First result, Lamb gets a huge swing against 2012. Will it be enough??

    Next results in Greene County not so good. Good, but not good enough ("just" 12%)
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Betfair beginning to tighten as the first precincts are in line with a Lamb win. From about 1.65 to 1.55, but less than 1% of the vote counted so far.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Aaand as I type that Betfair's market collapses. Minimal liquidity but now Lamb at barely 1.33. Seems unjustified on the initial results, but time will tell.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    Quincel said:

    Aaand as I type that Betfair's market collapses. Minimal liquidity but now Lamb at barely 1.33. Seems unjustified on the initial results, but time will tell.

    I just took a few quid on Saccone at 3.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Quincel said:

    Aaand as I type that Betfair's market collapses. Minimal liquidity but now Lamb at barely 1.33. Seems unjustified on the initial results, but time will tell.

    I just took a few quid on Saccone at 3.
    Allegheny (biggest of four counties) looks very good for Lamb. Swings of ~20% v 2012, against 14% needed. Less good elsewhere.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    Aaand as I type that Betfair's market collapses. Minimal liquidity but now Lamb at barely 1.33. Seems unjustified on the initial results, but time will tell.

    I just took a few quid on Saccone at 3.
    Allegheny (biggest of four counties) looks very good for Lamb. Swings of ~20% v 2012, against 14% needed. Less good elsewhere.
    As a man with some money at evens on Lamb I'm happy, but we don't even have a single vote in from 2 of the 4 counties. Betfair is getting ahead of itself. (Not that you are, I should add.)
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Ooo, that's looking tight. Damnit, I was wanting to get some sleep :-)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Aaand as I type that Betfair's market collapses. Minimal liquidity but now Lamb at barely 1.33. Seems unjustified on the initial results, but time will tell.

    I just took a few quid on Saccone at 3.
    Allegheny (biggest of four counties) looks very good for Lamb. Swings of ~20% v 2012, against 14% needed. Less good elsewhere.
    As a man with some money at evens on Lamb I'm happy, but we don't even have a single vote in from 2 of the 4 counties. Betfair is getting ahead of itself. (Not that you are, I should add.)
    You can get 5/1 on BF on what the NYT gives as a 47% chance.

    Soneone is making a mistake.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Well, I've laid Lamb at 1.2. Just enough to leave me no losing outcome, and some pocket money if he does hold on.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    'The needle' hasn't cleared 55% for anyone all night, and the estimate final lead hasn't cleared 1%, yet Betfair stubbornly remains with Lamb as an 80%+ favourite.

    Getting tempted on dipping in against him.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Whipped up a quick bare-bones model, looks like a coinflip from results so far. Someone clearly thinks they know something on Betfair.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Quincel said:

    'The needle' hasn't cleared 55% for anyone all night, and the estimate final lead hasn't cleared 1%, yet Betfair stubbornly remains with Lamb as an 80%+ favourite.

    Getting tempted on dipping in against him.

    Allegheny is showing a 22% swing. There are big unknowns what Lamb will get elsewhere, but that's what driving BF
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Andrew said:

    Whipped up a quick bare-bones model, looks like a coinflip from results so far. Someone clearly thinks they know something on Betfair.

    My read is people getting excited by the exciting outcome and the early returns. Even to the point that 'The Needle' on NYT is being taken as certain. I suspect if it was 53% for Saccone all night so far the odds would be at least evens.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    Saccone now 0.3% ahead with the NYT prediction.

    I suspect that the result might not be announced tomorrow.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2018
    This district is 95% white. I always thought it would be tough for the Democrats.

    https://www.census.gov/mycd/?st=42&cd=18
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,729
    CNN has some Westmoreland numbers whereas NYT doesn't?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    Betfair is hedging beautifully. Both candidates below evens.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,742
    Quincel said:

    Well, I've laid Lamb at 1.2. Just enough to leave me no losing outcome, and some pocket money if he does hold on.

    I also laid Lamb at 1.2 and then bet on him at 2.4. I'm very green in this race.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,729
    edited March 2018
    NYT now has 27% of Westmoreland numbers in total but no split by precinct.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    And Lamb is ahead again by NYT? The difference seems to be a sudden drop in the estimated 'Saccone-ness' of the uncounted vote. Has a key precinct come in?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,742
    Barnesian said:

    Quincel said:

    Well, I've laid Lamb at 1.2. Just enough to leave me no losing outcome, and some pocket money if he does hold on.

    I also laid Lamb at 1.2 and then bet on him at 2.4. I'm very green in this race.
    Now it's back to Lamb. Betfair is all over the place!
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    MikeL said:

    NYT now has 27% of Westmoreland numbers in total but no split by precinct.

    Westmoreland's website is crap is the reason
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Side note: The inner-band of outcome ranges on NYT has now narrowed to within 5%, so the Monmouth poll would now be an outlier.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Quincel said:

    And Lamb is ahead again by NYT? The difference seems to be a sudden drop in the estimated 'Saccone-ness' of the uncounted vote. Has a key precinct come in?

    I think it was the lack of Westmoreland figures... not that we really understand what' happening there. webiste is crap
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,721

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    we do have westmoreland votes, indeed 27% of precincts. just not *by* preisnct.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    Luckily I did back myself on this and stick a bit on at 2.8...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Does each precinct usually have roughly the same number of voters?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    And Lamb is ahead again by NYT? The difference seems to be a sudden drop in the estimated 'Saccone-ness' of the uncounted vote. Has a key precinct come in?

    I think it was the lack of Westmoreland figures... not that we really understand what' happening there. webiste is crap
    Actually Nate Cohn (of the needle) is tweeting: the issue was some Saccone precincts coming in from his current seat (in the state legislature). The needle was treating them as indicative of other republican areas in the county, but Nate Cohn has added an adjustment now to consider them unusually strong for him.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited March 2018
    AndyJS said:

    Does each precinct usually have roughly the same number of voters?

    not even close. vary from 50 to 2500
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    AndyJS said:

    Does each precinct usually have roughly the same number of voters?

    I think it varies.

    With fewer in rural areas.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,905
    I've cashed out for a small profit - hope everyone else makes some money.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    Luckily I did back myself on this and stick a bit on at 2.8...
    Indeed, Nate Cohn's tweets in short mean people using their own analysis and not just blindly following the needle had an edge. Well played.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Does each precinct usually have roughly the same number of voters?

    I think it varies.

    With fewer in rural areas.
    I thought so. One reason why the percentage figure isn't always that useful, because it refers to precincts reporting, not the percentage of the total vote.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,721

    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    we do have westmoreland votes, indeed 27% of precincts. just not *by* preisnct.
    Ah, thank you.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    I make it Lamb by 2%
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Does anyone know how this district voted at the 2016 presidential election?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    we do have westmoreland votes, indeed 27% of precincts. just not *by* preisnct.
    Ah, thank you.
    now 54% of precincts. Saccone only carrying it 54:46, which will be a big disappointment
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,721
    AndyJS said:

    Does each precinct usually have roughly the same number of voters?

    Unknown. Wiki says between 500 and 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Quincel said:

    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    Luckily I did back myself on this and stick a bit on at 2.8...
    Indeed, Nate Cohn's tweets in short mean people using their own analysis and not just blindly following the needle had an edge. Well played.
    From past experience, the needle is wildly overconfident early on. I'm not sure how late in it makes sense to take it seriously.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    AndyJS said:

    Does anyone know how this district voted at the 2016 presidential election?

    Trump by 20 I think
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,863
    Hello everyone. I'm in the middle of moving house and it's hell.

    I didn't even get a chance to put some money on Saccone.

    Did I get lucky?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited March 2018

    Quincel said:

    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    Luckily I did back myself on this and stick a bit on at 2.8...
    Indeed, Nate Cohn's tweets in short mean people using their own analysis and not just blindly following the needle had an edge. Well played.
    From past experience, the needle is wildly overconfident early on. I'm not sure how late in it makes sense to take it seriously.
    [EDIT Ignore]
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    rcs1000 said:

    Hello everyone. I'm in the middle of moving house and it's hell.

    I didn't even get a chance to put some money on Saccone.

    Did I get lucky?

    looks like it to me
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    only westmoreland can change this.

    if I had it precinct by precinct, i could tell you if that was likely. but I don't so I can't
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    viewcode said:

    Quincel said:

    Things going pretty red pretty quickly, Sannone now 2.6% ahead and 64% likelihood of winning. Not over yet, but getting there unless some more surprises pop up in unreported areas. Westmorland?

    I don't agree with the NYT here.
    I'm a bit puzzled myself. The "Estimated votes remaining" big dot map shows estinated votes from Westmoreland, *but* we've had no Westmoreland results in yet. How is the uncounted Westmoreland vote estimate calculated?
    Luckily I did back myself on this and stick a bit on at 2.8...
    Indeed, Nate Cohn's tweets in short mean people using their own analysis and not just blindly following the needle had an edge. Well played.
    From past experience, the needle is wildly overconfident early on. I'm not sure how late in it makes sense to take it seriously.
    In fairness, many criticisms of it could be made tonight but not overconfidence. Barring a brief period where it was misinterpreting some precincts it hasn't had anyone over 60% likely.
    That's good. Maybe they made some changes after the Alabama senate election.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited March 2018
    you spend half your evening preparing westmoreland precincts and then they don't tell you!!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,729
    Westmoreland jumped - 77% in
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    you spend half your evening preparing westmoreland precincts and then they don't tell you!!

    The Needle also relies on precinct-level data, and thus The Needle has been pulled from the website.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Everyone on twitter seems to want Lamb to win. I'd prefer Saccone, can't trade it on betfair just had a straight bet earlier with Ladbrokes, looking like a loser right now >+>
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Westmoreland updates to 77% counted and this is almost over
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I'm confused. According to this page this congressional district voted for Clinton by 62% to 35% for Trump. Am I looking in the wrong place?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Kq1ngkhxTs02CoSyHongUe-4iOd8_l7QrjDjdbGTFY/edit#
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Quincel said:


    Indeed, Nate Cohn's tweets in short mean people using their own analysis and not just blindly following the needle had an edge. Well played.

    Yeah, that makes more sense. Rare a market is a million miles off public data.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    AndyJS said:

    I'm confused. According to this page this congressional district voted for Clinton by 62% to 35% for Trump. Am I looking in the wrong place?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Kq1ngkhxTs02CoSyHongUe-4iOd8_l7QrjDjdbGTFY/edit#

    For some reason that's only counting the Democrat district in PA18 - there are 3 others which went Republican by varying margins.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2018
    Quincel said:

    AndyJS said:

    I'm confused. According to this page this congressional district voted for Clinton by 62% to 35% for Trump. Am I looking in the wrong place?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Kq1ngkhxTs02CoSyHongUe-4iOd8_l7QrjDjdbGTFY/edit#

    For some reason that's only counting the Democrat district in PA18 - there are 3 others which went Republican by varying margins.
    Okay, thanks.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    AndyJS said:

    I'm confused. According to this page this congressional district voted for Clinton by 62% to 35% for Trump. Am I looking in the wrong place?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Kq1ngkhxTs02CoSyHongUe-4iOd8_l7QrjDjdbGTFY/edit#

    It goes much wider than "Allegheny pt." were those implied on the newboudnaries?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,729
    Washington jumped - 75% in
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    The race tightens up, again.

    Sacconne is running out of road though...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,721
    Fuck it, let's do it old-school

    Here are the reported

    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 46,005 33,195 412 0.83
    Westmoreland 21,195 27,995 333 0.77
    Washington 6,062 6,121 106 0.33
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1

    pro-rata-ing them up gives us

    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 55,428 39,994 496 1
    Westmoreland 27,526 36,357 432 1
    Washington 18,370 18,548 321 1
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1
    Total 103,250 97,594 1,292

    So Lamb wins by about 5K, mutatis mutandis.

    Unless he doesn't... :)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,742
    Pulpstar said:

    Everyone on twitter seems to want Lamb to win. I'd prefer Saccone, can't trade it on betfair just had a straight bet earlier with Ladbrokes, looking like a loser right now >+>

    I had a straight bet also on Saccone with Ladbrokes but took advantage of a discontinuity in the NYT model to lay and then bet on Lamb as the model went crazy and so cover my Ladbrokes bet with plenty to spare. So I am relaxed.

    Actually I'm very happy if Lamb wins. I first bet on Saccone, partly because I thought it was an evens chance and I got 13-8 (so a value bet) but also as an insurance on my grief if the Republican won (an emotional bet). Now I'm quids in and happy all round. I think I'll go to bed.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    viewcode said:

    Fuck it, let's do it old-school

    Here are the reported

    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 46,005 33,195 412 0.83
    Westmoreland 21,195 27,995 333 0.77
    Washington 6,062 6,121 106 0.33
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1

    pro-rata-ing them up gives us

    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 55,428 39,994 496 1
    Westmoreland 27,526 36,357 432 1
    Washington 18,370 18,548 321 1
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1
    Total 103,250 97,594 1,292

    So Lamb wins by about 5K, mutatis mutandis.

    Unless he doesn't... :)

    Your washington number is out now
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,729
    Warning - per map 100% of precincts tight to Pittsburgh are in.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    I'm confused. According to this page this congressional district voted for Clinton by 62% to 35% for Trump. Am I looking in the wrong place?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Kq1ngkhxTs02CoSyHongUe-4iOd8_l7QrjDjdbGTFY/edit#

    It goes much wider than "Allegheny pt." were those implied on the newboudnaries?
    No it's supposed to be the current boundaries, in 2016.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,721
    Oooh, now it's closer...

    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 49,502 35,844 446 0.91
    Westmoreland 25,429 34,087 397 0.88
    Washington 14,829 16,569 244 0.75
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1


    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 54,398 39,389 490 1
    Westmoreland 28,897 38,735 451 1
    Washington 19,772 22,092 325 1
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1
    Total 104,993 102,910 1,309

    Still Lamb, but it's closer: 2K.

    Seriously: who needs a needle when you've got me... :)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This is going to be very close: Lamb is 1,900 ahead with 90% counted.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,721

    viewcode said:

    Fuck it, let's do it old-school

    Here are the reported

    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 46,005 33,195 412 0.83
    Westmoreland 21,195 27,995 333 0.77
    Washington 6,062 6,121 106 0.33
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1

    pro-rata-ing them up gives us

    LAMB SACCONE MILLER %age
    Allegheny 55,428 39,994 496 1
    Westmoreland 27,526 36,357 432 1
    Washington 18,370 18,548 321 1
    Greene 1,927 2,694 42 1
    Total 103,250 97,594 1,292

    So Lamb wins by about 5K, mutatis mutandis.

    Unless he doesn't... :)

    Your washington number is out now
    Well, yes. I'm not doing this in real time. I'm cutting-and-pasting into a spreadsheet.
This discussion has been closed.