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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Young voters are much more opposed to blue passports being bro

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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,862

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Have you been reading those fake news websites again?
    Yes it's only costing 72 pounds and 10 shillings.

    Or perhaps it's completely free and no old ones will be written off at all
    You really need to stop reading the likes of the Canary....
    Daily Express actually
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    kle4 said:

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Surely they're redesigned or reprinted from time to time, and this time they just add 'make it blue' to the spec sheet, why would it cost anything it wouldn't already cost to manufacture them, I'm confused?
    Do they have the exact number of magenta ones or will that stock be scrapped?
    You are talking utter horseshit...again..

    “The UK passport is routinely redesigned every five years to guard against counterfeiting. We are launching the procurement process now to ensure there is sufficient time to produce and design UK passports from 2019 when the current contract ends."

    So as the poster said, in terms of colour change, all that will be different is the spec sheet will say "blue". All the rest of the redesign / print is standard operating procedure to guard against counterfeiting.

    While I am totally ambivalent towards the colour, it is a total non-issue in terms of cost.
    Ah so its nil then

    OK Daily Express is my Horse Shit newspaper of choice

    UKBritain's blue passport RETURNS - £500m project will REPLACE pink EU document after Brexit

    Right - a project that was already happening, with one detail changed.
  • Options

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Have you been reading those fake news websites again?
    Yes it's only costing 72 pounds and 10 shillings.

    Or perhaps it's completely free and no old ones will be written off at all
    You really need to stop reading the likes of the Canary....
    Daily Express actually
    Well that's nearly as bad...
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,862
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,862
    edited December 2017

    kle4 said:

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Surely they're redesigned or reprinted from time to time, and this time they just add 'make it blue' to the spec sheet, why would it cost anything it wouldn't already cost to manufacture them, I'm confused?
    Do they have the exact number of magenta ones or will that stock be scrapped?
    You are talking utter horseshit...again..

    “The UK passport is routinely redesigned every five years to guard against counterfeiting. We are launching the procurement process now to ensure there is sufficient time to produce and design UK passports from 2019 when the current contract ends."

    So as the poster said, in terms of colour change, all that will be different is the spec sheet will say "blue". All the rest of the redesign / print is standard operating procedure to guard against counterfeiting.

    While I am totally ambivalent towards the colour, it is a total non-issue in terms of cost.
    Ah so its nil then

    OK
    The last contract was basically the same. So yes nil.
    Zero stock wasted?

    Good
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    kle4 said:

    This Liverpool team are going to kill me.

    Remember when you told me that they were improving, and Klopp's methods were bearing fruit?

    One of your funnier jokes.
    I still have faith in Klopp.

    Attacking wise, we are better than sex.
    Defending wise you certainly take a vigourous regular pounding in the rear.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    rcs1000 said:

    If you want to exclude foreign firms from government tenders, you can expect to sign free trade agreements with... absolutely no one.

    There was quite a fuss in 2009, when the company that won the contract then wanted to send printing to Malta iirc. Eventually didn't happen because of said fuss.

    Hardly matters either - until 2011/2012 or so UK passports were printed all over the globe.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Have you been reading those fake news websites again?
    Yes it's only costing 72 pounds and 10 shillings.

    Or perhaps it's completely free and no old ones will be written off at all
    You really need to stop reading the likes of the Canary....
    Daily Express actually
    Well that's nearly as bad...
    The Express story doesn't say the change will cost £500m either. It too makes clear the current contract ends in 2019, and tenders have been invited for the new one. It just says that the project costs that much and will replace the passport colour, not that that is all it does.
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    HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    edited December 2017
    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2017

    kle4 said:

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Surely they're redesigned or reprinted from time to time, and this time they just add 'make it blue' to the spec sheet, why would it cost anything it wouldn't already cost to manufacture them, I'm confused?
    Do they have the exact number of magenta ones or will that stock be scrapped?
    You are talking utter horseshit...again..

    “The UK passport is routinely redesigned every five years to guard against counterfeiting. We are launching the procurement process now to ensure there is sufficient time to produce and design UK passports from 2019 when the current contract ends."

    So as the poster said, in terms of colour change, all that will be different is the spec sheet will say "blue". All the rest of the redesign / print is standard operating procedure to guard against counterfeiting.

    While I am totally ambivalent towards the colour, it is a total non-issue in terms of cost.
    Ah so its nil then

    OK
    The last contract was basically the same. So yes nil.
    Zero stock wasted?
    Give it a rest, you are making an idiot of yourself.

    The cost of a choosing a different colour is zero. The redesign happens every 5 years, it is put out to tender and winner does the redesign and production. In the EU, out the EU, red, blue or bright pink, its the same.

    You clearly don't remember the redesign a few years ago. Mrs Bucket did her nut because she said it was sexist.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    edited December 2017

    kle4 said:

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Surely they're redesigned or reprinted from time to time, and this time they just add 'make it blue' to the spec sheet, why would it cost anything it wouldn't already cost to manufacture them, I'm confused?
    Do they have the exact number of magenta ones or will that stock be scrapped?
    You are talking utter horseshit...again..

    “The UK passport is routinely redesigned every five years to guard against counterfeiting. We are launching the procurement process now to ensure there is sufficient time to produce and design UK passports from 2019 when the current contract ends."

    So as the poster said, in terms of colour change, all that will be different is the spec sheet will say "blue". All the rest of the redesign / print is standard operating procedure to guard against counterfeiting.

    While I am totally ambivalent towards the colour, it is a total non-issue in terms of cost.
    Ah so its nil then

    OK
    The last contract was basically the same. So yes nil.
    Zero stock wasted?

    Good
    Sounds like they cannot reuse any stock for the next contract even if the colour stays the same, because of all the other features and redesigns. So yes, even with wasted stock the cost from making them blue would appear to be zero.

    As the Express says

    As part of its tender, De La Rue is expected to undertake major design changes to the passport to combat identity fraud

    Even the Express story doesn't say what you thought it said, it doesn't say the change will cost money, just that it is part of the contract tender.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,671
    edited December 2017
    kle4 said:

    Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell, chairman of the Flags and Heraldry Committee, said: “It’s a matter of identity. Having the pink European passports has been a source of humiliation. It merged us into one European identity, which isn’t what we are."

    I am not sure which I find most startling Andrew Rosindell's 'source of humiliation' comment (really? - get a life!) or that there is a Flags and Heraldry Committee... FFS!
    Well, people have been crying about the humiliation of the burgundy ones being taken away too, so some people are just seeking things to be humiliated by. On the Committee, well, you know you are low on favours if that is the committee you get lumped with.

    I kid, although it sounds more like a hobby group best suited to an all-parliamentary group
    Fair enough, I guess it keeps them out of harm's way. :lol:
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    edited December 2017

    kle4 said:

    Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell, chairman of the Flags and Heraldry Committee, said: “It’s a matter of identity. Having the pink European passports has been a source of humiliation. It merged us into one European identity, which isn’t what we are."

    I am not sure which I find most startling Andrew Rosindell's 'source of humiliation' comment (really? - get a life!) or that there is a Flags and Heraldry Committee... FFS!
    Well, people have been crying about the humiliation of the burgundy ones being taken away too, so some people are just seeking things to be humiliated by. On the Committee, well, you know you are low on favours if that is the committee you get lumped with.

    I kid, although it sounds more like a hobby group best suited to an all-parliamentary group
    Fair enough, I guess it keeps them out of harm's way. :lol:
    Doing a google of it, it would appear that it is just an all-party parliamentary group, with no more official status within parliament than the all party parliamentary group on Hadrian's Wall

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/171220/hadrians-wall.htm

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/flags-and-heraldry.htm

    There's so many of them, I cannot see if others have a misleading 'committee' moniker.


    Edit: Seriously, so many of them

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/171220/contents.htm#clubs

    I must ask Dr Palmer how many he was on.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2017
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Surely they're redesigned or reprinted from time to time, and this time they just add 'make it blue' to the spec sheet, why would it cost anything it wouldn't already cost to manufacture them, I'm confused?
    Do they have the exact number of magenta ones or will that stock be scrapped?
    You are talking utter horseshit...again..

    “The UK passport is routinely redesigned every five years to guard against counterfeiting. We are launching the procurement process now to ensure there is sufficient time to produce and design UK passports from 2019 when the current contract ends."

    So as the poster said, in terms of colour change, all that will be different is the spec sheet will say "blue". All the rest of the redesign / print is standard operating procedure to guard against counterfeiting.

    While I am totally ambivalent towards the colour, it is a total non-issue in terms of cost.
    Ah so its nil then

    OK
    The last contract was basically the same. So yes nil.
    Zero stock wasted?

    Good
    Sounds like they cannot reuse any stock for the next contract even if the colour stays the same, because of all the other features and redesigns. So yes, even with wasted stock the cost from making them blue would appear to be zero.

    As the Express says

    As part of its tender, De La Rue is expected to undertake major design changes to the passport to combat identity fraud

    Even the Express story doesn't say what you thought it said, it doesn't say the change will cost money, just that it is part of the contract tender.
    He will be complaining about the cost of redesigned bank notes next....think of all those notes that get taken out of service and burned!!!! I blame Brexit.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Silent night
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    edited December 2017
    Corbyn effect moves north of the border.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/944347142424006656

    Never mind 51 is still a bigger number than 49.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited December 2017
    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    Why wouldn't we reciprocate? It should be: UK nationals, Commonwealth citizens, all other nationalities.

    And the Guardian are being a bit cheeky there. The color change isn't going to cause queues for British travelers, leaving the EU will.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited December 2017

    kle4 said:

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Surely they're redesigned or reprinted from time to time, and this time they just add 'make it blue' to the spec sheet, why would it cost anything it wouldn't already cost to manufacture them, I'm confused?
    Do they have the exact number of magenta ones or will that stock be scrapped?
    You are talking utter horseshit...again..

    “The UK passport is routinely redesigned every five years to guard against counterfeiting. We are launching the procurement process now to ensure there is sufficient time to produce and design UK passports from 2019 when the current contract ends."

    So as the poster said, in terms of colour change, all that will be different is the spec sheet will say "blue". All the rest of the redesign / print is standard operating procedure to guard against counterfeiting.

    While I am totally ambivalent towards the colour, it is a total non-issue in terms of cost.
    Ah so its nil then

    OK Daily Express is my Horse Shit newspaper of choice

    UKBritain's blue passport RETURNS - £500m project will REPLACE pink EU document after Brexit

    Britain's blue passport RETURNS - £500m project will REPLACE pink EU document after Brexit

    BRITAIN’S iconic dark blue passports are set to make a return as part of a £500million post-Brexit redesign.
    By CAROLINE WHEELER AND CAMILLA TOMINEY, EXCLUSIVE


    And we are in for an Arctic Blast
    I'm guessing that's the cost of the passport contract, which would happen regardless of color choice. Heavens knows why you'd think changing a color on a passport costs £500mn,
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    edited December 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn effect moves north of the border.

    htt://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/944347142424006656

    Never mind 51 is still a bigger number than 49.

    We had a poll with Yes in the lead once before, not long before the referendum. I remember as it scared the crap out of me.

    Now, that that did not in the end signal anything doesn't mean this one will not either, but the National have no concept of hubris, do they?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,337
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn effect moves north of the border.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/944347142424006656

    Never mind 51 is still a bigger number than 49.

    The question looks loaded - it asks specifically whether respondents want to be an independent Scotland in the EU - which will increase Remain sympathy. Unless they asked that last time, it's notcomparable with the one they're claiming a +6 from.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    It’s often quicker to go through the non EU channels anyway (where the airport distinguishes). The EU route isn’t designed to be quicker - if significant numbers of people are redirected then the staff will just be reallocated accordingly.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    kle4 said:

    £500M Well spent on new passport. I mean it's not as if public services could do with half a billion is it.

    Surely they're redesigned or reprinted from time to time, and this time they just add 'make it blue' to the spec sheet, why would it cost anything it wouldn't already cost to manufacture them, I'm confused?
    Do they have the exact number of magenta ones or will that stock be scrapped?
    You are talking utter horseshit...again..

    “The UK passport is routinely redesigned every five years to guard against counterfeiting. We are launching the procurement process now to ensure there is sufficient time to produce and design UK passports from 2019 when the current contract ends."

    So as the poster said, in terms of colour change, all that will be different is the spec sheet will say "blue". All the rest of the redesign / print is standard operating procedure to guard against counterfeiting.

    While I am totally ambivalent towards the colour, it is a total non-issue in terms of cost.
    Ah so its nil then

    OK Daily Express is my Horse Shit newspaper of choice

    UKBritain's blue passport RETURNS - £500m project will REPLACE pink EU document after Brexit

    Britain's blue passport RETURNS - £500m project will REPLACE pink EU document after Brexit

    BRITAIN’S iconic dark blue passports are set to make a return as part of a £500million post-Brexit redesign.
    By CAROLINE WHEELER AND CAMILLA TOMINEY, EXCLUSIVE


    And we are in for an Arctic Blast
    Has Diana's racist ghost given her views?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    edited December 2017

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn effect moves north of the border.

    hts://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/944347142424006656

    Never mind 51 is still a bigger number than 49.

    The question looks loaded - it asks specifically whether respondents want to be an independent Scotland in the EU - which will increase Remain sympathy. Unless they asked that last time, it's notcomparable with the one they're claiming a +6 from.
    Ah, since you're on I can remember to ask - when you were in Parliament, did you belong to any particularly interesting all-party parliamentary groups? There's so many, on just about everything it seems.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,617
    RobD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    Why wouldn't we reciprocate? It should be: UK nationals, Commonwealth citizens, all other nationalities.
    Surely two options:

    British Citizens

    Jonny Foreigners

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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Re: passports - I imagine the actual cost of production is a pretty small proportion of the process. Most of the £70 cost is on administration
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    RobD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    Why wouldn't we reciprocate? It should be: UK nationals, Commonwealth citizens, all other nationalities.
    Surely two options:

    British Citizens

    Jonny Foreigners

    You are absurd - Johnny or Jane Foreigner, thank you, it's the 21st century.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,337
    edited December 2017

    Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell, chairman of the Flags and Heraldry Committee, said: “It’s a matter of identity. Having the pink European passports has been a source of humiliation. It merged us into one European identity, which isn’t what we are."

    I am not sure which I find most startling Andrew Rosindell's 'source of humiliation' comment (really? - get a life!) or that there is a Flags and Heraldry Committee... FFS!
    There isn't really. There's an all-party parliamentary group (there are hundreds, on everything from Sri Lanka to Iceland - basically any interest that one has can be pursued) of a few backbench MPs which the newspaper calls a "committee". Tom Watson's a vice-chair, I see!

    https://www.facebook.com/flagsandheraldrycommittee/
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    nielh said:

    HYUFD said:

    nielh said:

    malcolmg said:
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    Something predicted hours after the vote, if not before it - it will surely be razor tight when the question next arises, and despite the regaining of ground by unionists in the GE, clearly they are simply too many independence supporters in Scotland for the question not to be asked again at some point.
    I think it is clear th
    I have to say that I am not that bothered either way. I wish the scots the best if they want to become independent and rejoin the EU. Its their choice.
    Maybe the UK has outlived its purpose, if so then it is sad, but so be it.
    Given the SNP lost almost half their MPs in June, the DUP has won 2 NI elections since the referendum and Wales voted Leave anyway and Plaid is still miles behind Welsh Labour, the union is now arguably stronger thsn it was before the Brexit vote.
    Maybe: but it is just a moment in time. I'm more interested about what is happening over time, the big picture (sorry for the cliche)

    Even so, malcolmg is quoting a survey that suggests that 49% of scots would vote to leave the UK and rejoin the EU as an independent scotland; so there are good reasons to cast doubt on your certainty.

    Now that the Euro crisis has abated, joining the Euro solves the currency issue.
    A curveball might be if a Northern Irish border poll comes first and is lost by the unionists. That could go either way in terms of its psychological impact in Scotland, but I’d expect the zeitgeist to be that the union is no longer fit for purpose.
    There will.never be an Irish border poll while the DUP remains the largest party in Northern Ireland or indeed until SF and the SDLP win a majority at Stormont. Despite your predictions Unionist parties have won more seats than nationalists in every election in the UK since the EU referendum
    The most recent survey by Lucid Talk had 56/34% favouring the UK. Public support for maintaing the UK in its constituent parts is pretty strong.
    Although not if the alternative is a hard border, which is what a Canada-style deal implies.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/938825404542078976
    That's a very loaded question.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2017
    RobD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    Why wouldn't we reciprocate? It should be: UK nationals, Commonwealth citizens, all other nationalities.

    And the Guardian are being a bit cheeky there. The color change isn't going to cause queues for British travelers, leaving the EU will.
    Yes, that would make sense. My mother always objected to queueing up with foreigners to enter her own country. I can't say it ever bothered me. It's not as if our immigration is as big of pain in the arse as US immigration.

    Mind you, I remember making the mistake of sharing a night train compartment with an African in pre Schengen days. Between ticket inspectors, passports and customs in great detail neither of us got much sleep, though perhaps she was a bit dodgy as at one border she was hauled off under guard.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell, chairman of the Flags and Heraldry Committee, said: “It’s a matter of identity. Having the pink European passports has been a source of humiliation. It merged us into one European identity, which isn’t what we are."

    I am not sure which I find most startling Andrew Rosindell's 'source of humiliation' comment (really? - get a life!) or that there is a Flags and Heraldry Committee... FFS!
    There isn't really. There's an all-party parliamentary group (there are hundreds, on everything from Sri Lanka to Iceland) of a few backbench MPs which has chosen to call itself a "committee".
    Apparently pigeon racing is pretty popular with parliamentarians given the size of its All-party group.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/171220/pigeon-racing.htm

    And we can see who is a fan of Jazz, and is therefore to be avoided

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/171220/jazz-appreciation.htm
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,671
    kle4 said:

    Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell, chairman of the Flags and Heraldry Committee, said: “It’s a matter of identity. Having the pink European passports has been a source of humiliation. It merged us into one European identity, which isn’t what we are."

    I am not sure which I find most startling Andrew Rosindell's 'source of humiliation' comment (really? - get a life!) or that there is a Flags and Heraldry Committee... FFS!
    There isn't really. There's an all-party parliamentary group (there are hundreds, on everything from Sri Lanka to Iceland) of a few backbench MPs which has chosen to call itself a "committee".
    Apparently pigeon racing is pretty popular with parliamentarians given the size of its All-party group.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/171220/pigeon-racing.htm

    And we can see who is a fan of Jazz, and is therefore to be avoided

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/171220/jazz-appreciation.htm
    Mmmm - nice!
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    alex. said:

    Re: passports - I imagine the actual cost of production is a pretty small proportion of the process. Most of the £70 cost is on administration

    Yep, about a tenner (5m a year printed under a £49m/year contract).
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    Stephen Crabb MP cleared of inappropriate conduct

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-42462431
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,671
    edited December 2017
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    "...The irony is that the UK could have had a blue passport while an EU member. EU member state Croatia currently has a blue passport, after all... "
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    Why wouldn't we reciprocate? It should be: UK nationals, Commonwealth citizens, all other nationalities.
    Surely two options:

    British Citizens

    Jonny Foreigners

    You are absurd - Johnny or Jane Foreigner, thank you, it's the 21st century.
    I guess it's not very modern or feminist to want just freedom of female movement?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    RobD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    And the Guardian are being a bit cheeky there. The color change isn't going to cause queues for British travelers, leaving the EU will.
    That is a bit silly. Many have lost their minds over this one.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Hopefully some BRITISH passport lanes in BRITISH airports.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    edited December 2017
    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    We will also have to apply online three days in advance and pay €10 for a visa waiver under the ETIAS scheme starting 2020. https://www.etiaseurope.eu/

    Edit. Although it looks like the validity of the waiver is 5 years, so maybe not such an overhead.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    Why wouldn't we reciprocate? It should be: UK nationals, Commonwealth citizens, all other nationalities.

    And the Guardian are being a bit cheeky there. The color change isn't going to cause queues for British travelers, leaving the EU will.
    Surely we should be encouraging tourists and foreign business types? That's why we won't reciprocate.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    edited December 2017

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    nielh said:

    HYUFD said:

    nielh said:

    malcolmg said:
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    Something predicted hours after the vote, if not before it - it will surely be razor tight when the question next arises, and despite the regaining of ground by unionists in the GE, clearly they are simply too many independence supporters in Scotland for the question not to be asked again at some point.
    I think it is clear th
    I have to say that I am not that bothered either way. I wish the scots the best if they want to become independent and rejoin the EU. Its their choice.
    Maybe the UK has outlived its purpose, if so then it is sad, but so be it.
    Given the SNP lost almost half their MPs in June, the DUP has won 2 NI elections since the referendum and Wales voted Leave anyway and Plaid is still miles behind Welsh Labour, the union is now arguably stronger thsn it was before the Brexit vote.
    Maybe: but it is just a moment in time. I'm more interested
    Now that the Euro crisis has abated, joining the Euro solves the currency issue.
    A curveball might be if a Northern Irish border poll comes first and is lost by the unionists. That could go either way in terms of its psychological impact in Scotland, but I’d expect the zeitgeist to be that the union is no longer fit for purpose.
    There will.never be an Irish border poll while the DUP remains the largest party in Northern Ireland or indeed until SF and the SDLP win a majority at Stormont. Despite your predictions Unionist parties have won more seats than nationalists in every election in the UK since the EU referendum
    The most recent survey by Lucid Talk had 56/34% favouring the UK. Public support for maintaing the UK in its constituent parts is pretty strong.
    Although not if the alternative is a hard border, which is what a Canada-style deal implies.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/938825404542078976
    No it does not, there had to be agreement on how the Irish border issue would be resolved before we were able to start talks on a Canada style FTA with the EU.

    So that Sinn Fein sponsored poll is now redundant.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,070
    HYUFD said:

    No it does not, there had to be agreement on how the Irish border issue would be resolved before we were able to start talks on a Canada style FTA with the EU

    And how will it be resolved, in the event of a Canada-style deal?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    Sean_F said:


    Although not if the alternative is a hard border, which is what a Canada-style deal implies.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/938825404542078976

    That's a very loaded question.

    Maybe a bit. There is a clear preference for any "hard" border not to be across the island however. Northern Irish prefer to stay in the EU Single Market and Customs Union

    https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTDec17TrackerPoll-GUENGLProjectReportF.pdf#page=21
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    HYUFD said:

    No it does not, there had to be agreement on how the Irish border issue would be resolved before we were able to start talks on a Canada style FTA with the EU

    And how will it be resolved, in the event of a Canada-style deal?
    There will effectively be no tariffs or border controls on goods at the Irish border
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,111
    edited December 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn effect moves north of the border.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/944347142424006656

    Never mind 51 is still a bigger number than 49.

    Thank goodness that's the high water mark then.

    Where's the lad that was asking me (among others) to comment on an Indy poll from April?*


    *In November.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    edited December 2017
    nielh said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nikki Haley holds a reception for the 65 nations that did not vote for the resolution condemning the US stance on Jerusalem.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/nikki-haley-to-host-friendship-party-with-countries-in-the-un-on-jerusalem-2017-12?r=US&IR=T

    The UK, being one of the 128 nations that voted for the resolution, was not invited. Never mind the 'Special Relationship' after yesterday's vote it looks like the UK is not even in the top 65 favoured nations of Trump's USA

    Aren’t you overreacting just a bit?
    No, Trump is notorious for his grudges and we can probably forget about a trade deal with the US for good or ill any time soon. In my view even if we were not going to vote with the USA and Israel we should at least have abstained like Australia, Canada and Poland, not vote against the US as we did yesterday.
    Why not? We are a sovereign nation are we not? Foreign Policy is decided in Whitehall in our interests.
    You may disagree with the vote, but the President of USA has no right to determine it.
    Yes - Europhile though I am, I woluldn't accept Tusk saying unless we voted the way he liked, he'd "take our name" and there would be consequences. The same goes for Trump, Putin or anyone else who tries to use threats.
    Going by his posts today, HYUFD would agree to anything that Trump suggested, to try and preserve the 'special relationship'.

    So, even if that meant the nuclear anhillation of another country, or setting a chain of events off that plunged an entire continent in to war, it would be worth it to preserve the special relationship. Hmmm.
    No I wouldn't, we did not have to vote with the USA to recognise Jerusalem as the Israeli capital we could have just abstained as Canada, Poland and Australia managed to do, we did not have to vote for the resolution opposing the US and Israeli position.

    That would have been entirely in accordance with the official UK policy that Jerusalem should be shared as a capital between Israel and Palestine
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited December 2017
    That solution is not compatible with “A Canada style agreement”

    Which didn’t exist 2years ago and is bespoke .

    We cannot possibly have any variance from this thing that we created to be variant from other things .

    :)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    edited December 2017

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn effect moves north of the border.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/944347142424006656

    Never mind 51 is still a bigger number than 49.

    Thank goodness that's the high water mark then.

    Where's the lad that was asking me (among others) to comment on an Indy poll from April?*


    *In November.

    Given unionist parties will get a majority at Holyrood at the next elections on current polls it probably is the high water mark given that would kill off indyref2 for a generation
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943
    Have Wings been involved in polls for long?
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Have Wings been involved in polls for long?

    4 years.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Mortimer said:

    Have Wings been involved in polls for long?

    Wings over Christian Somerset
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Life expectancy drops in America again:

    "US life expectancy fell last year for a second year running for the first time in more than half a century, reportedly driven by the worsening opioid crisis.
    Life expectancy in 2016 fell 0.1 years to 78.6, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.
    It was the first consecutive drop since 1962-63. The last two-year decline before that was in the 1920s."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42452733

    They haven't even factored in the effects of a nuclear strike from North Korea yet...
    I can't see how Trump is going to reduce drug addiction in America.
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Have Wings been involved in polls for long?

    Wings over Christian Somerset
    The Phoney Rev., the Whinge Frae Bath.....
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2017
    "The number of drug overdose deaths in the US has soared in recent years, the figures show, climbing to 63,632 last year, compared with 52,404 in 2015. In 1999, the number was 16,849."

    https://www.ft.com/content/d22e742c-e65c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    AndyJS said:

    "The number of drug overdose deaths in the US has soared in recent years, the figures show, climbing to 63,632 last year, compared with 52,404 in 2015. In 1999, the number was 16,849."

    https://www.ft.com/content/d22e742c-e65c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da

    I had a very minor medical procedure last week, and was prescribed a powerful opiate for pain relief. Utterly OTT: paracetamol or ibuprofen would have been fine.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,785
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "The number of drug overdose deaths in the US has soared in recent years, the figures show, climbing to 63,632 last year, compared with 52,404 in 2015. In 1999, the number was 16,849."

    https://www.ft.com/content/d22e742c-e65c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da

    I had a very minor medical procedure last week, and was prescribed a powerful opiate for pain relief. Utterly OTT: paracetamol or ibuprofen would have been fine.
    Which one? I have various different relatives with various different surgical problems, so Christmas conversations revolve around this kind of thing
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "The number of drug overdose deaths in the US has soared in recent years, the figures show, climbing to 63,632 last year, compared with 52,404 in 2015. In 1999, the number was 16,849."

    https://www.ft.com/content/d22e742c-e65c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da

    I had a very minor medical procedure last week, and was prescribed a powerful opiate for pain relief. Utterly OTT: paracetamol or ibuprofen would have been fine.
    It seems obvious to us in the UK that prescribing opiates in this way is a bad idea but there must be something in American culture which views things differently.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2017
    AndyJS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "The number of drug overdose deaths in the US has soared in recent years, the figures show, climbing to 63,632 last year, compared with 52,404 in 2015. In 1999, the number was 16,849."

    https://www.ft.com/content/d22e742c-e65c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da

    I had a very minor medical procedure last week, and was prescribed a powerful opiate for pain relief. Utterly OTT: paracetamol or ibuprofen would have been fine.
    It seems obvious to us in the UK that prescribing opiates in this way is a bad idea but there must be something in American culture which views things differently.
    Prescription drug culture is as insidious as gun culture in the US, it’s everywhere. US TV has 20 minutes an hour of adverts, and more than half are for presciption-only drugs being marketed to end users. The drugs themselves are gettting more powerful too, the latest painkillers are basically synthetic heroin and promise the ultimate in pain relief, but they’re highly addictive and there’s a huge black market from the unofficial pharmacists that hang around on street corners. It’s a massive social problem in the US, several million people completely screwed by addiction mostly started by drugs they got from a doctor.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,354
    Just on the political implications of the passports, of course no one should care what colour the things are - but they will now, because the worst of the Brexiteers have made it so. If you think this whole thing is a travesty, especially if you're under 40 and were only dimly aware passports were ever blue, then it becomes a symbol of the ridiculousness of those who threw away many of the rights you had with a burgundy passport. It just looks like another insane salvo in the old's culture war against the young.

    And the failure of the Tories to reach out and stop Brexit becoming a culture war, is why they're in trouble against someone with as many shortcomings as Jeremy Corbyn.

    It doesn't matter in terms of the colour, as a symbol of how the selfish nostalgia of older generations have thwarted the young it does. And anger over that sort of thing is what's turned Corbyn from a no hoper from dragging in votes from those who are sceptical but feel they have no choice but to vote against a party that is doing a very good impression of one that despises them and their values.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited December 2017
    the shade proposed would be significantly lighter than the near-black navy used in previous, larger, UK passports.

    Fabian Zuleeg, chief executive of the European Policy Centre, agreed that it would depend on the final EU/UK settlement as to whether it would be harder for British passport holders to travel in Europe in future. If UK citizens were treated as nationals of the European Economic Area, the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, then there would be no problem. “Otherwise they could face longer queues”

    Claude Moraes, the British Labour MEP, said he was “deeply sceptical” that the EU27 would offer the UK a special deal. He said the UK would be on the other side of policies aimed at strengthening the EU’s external border, including Etias and a stronger border and coastguard agency. “That is something people will have to get used to and the new passport will symbolise that.”


  • Options

    RobD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Experts believe it is "quite unlikely" that Brits will be able to go through the EU citizen lanes at passport control in EU airports after Brexit, unless complete freedom of movement remains in place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/22/blue-british-passports-could-mean-travel-delays-extra-paperwork

    Do you think we will reciprocate? I think there's a fair chance we won't. EU citizens will be able to sail through Heathrow as now, whilst Brits will be queuing for hours on the continent behind the Africans and Asians getting their Schengen visas examined in minute detail.

    Perhaps not a big concern for most but for regular travellers it will be a major pain in the arse.

    Why wouldn't we reciprocate? It should be: UK nationals, Commonwealth citizens, all other nationalities.

    And the Guardian are being a bit cheeky there. The color change isn't going to cause queues for British travelers, leaving the EU will.
    Surely we should be encouraging tourists and foreign business types?.
    And the EU shouldn’t?

    Tell that to the Spanish Tourist trade.....

    I think British travellers experiencing longer queues in the EU would welcome shorter queues at home...
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,995
    edited December 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "The number of drug overdose deaths in the US has soared in recent years, the figures show, climbing to 63,632 last year, compared with 52,404 in 2015. In 1999, the number was 16,849."

    https://www.ft.com/content/d22e742c-e65c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da

    I had a very minor medical procedure last week, and was prescribed a powerful opiate for pain relief. Utterly OTT: paracetamol or ibuprofen would have been fine.
    Someone who routinely prescribed like that would be questioned in UK. One of the advantages of the way the NHS works.
  • Options
    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    MJW said:

    Just on the political implications of the passports, of course no one should care what colour the things are - but they will now, because the worst of the Brexiteers have made it so. If you think this whole thing is a travesty, especially if you're under 40 and were only dimly aware passports were ever blue, then it becomes a symbol of the ridiculousness of those who threw away many of the rights you had with a burgundy passport. It just looks like another insane salvo in the old's culture war against the young.

    And the failure of the Tories to reach out and stop Brexit becoming a culture war, is why they're in trouble against someone with as many shortcomings as Jeremy Corbyn.

    It doesn't matter in terms of the colour, as a symbol of how the selfish nostalgia of older generations have thwarted the young it does. And anger over that sort of thing is what's turned Corbyn from a no hoper from dragging in votes from those who are sceptical but feel they have no choice but to vote against a party that is doing a very good impression of one that despises them and their values.

    Good comment.

    Im expecting missed connections at schipol etc due to long queues in the non eu national line.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    nielh said:

    MJW said:

    Just on the political implications of the passports, of course no one should care what colour the things are - but they will now, because the worst of the Brexiteers have made it so. If you think this whole thing is a travesty, especially if you're under 40 and were only dimly aware passports were ever blue, then it becomes a symbol of the ridiculousness of those who threw away many of the rights you had with a burgundy passport. It just looks like another insane salvo in the old's culture war against the young.

    And the failure of the Tories to reach out and stop Brexit becoming a culture war, is why they're in trouble against someone with as many shortcomings as Jeremy Corbyn.

    It doesn't matter in terms of the colour, as a symbol of how the selfish nostalgia of older generations have thwarted the young it does. And anger over that sort of thing is what's turned Corbyn from a no hoper from dragging in votes from those who are sceptical but feel they have no choice but to vote against a party that is doing a very good impression of one that despises them and their values.

    Good comment.

    Im expecting missed connections at schipol etc due to long queues in the non eu national line.
    They already allow Swiss and some others through Non-EU channels all over the EU. It wouldn’t take many missed connections before KLM insist on British being allowed through as they are now at Schipol.

    While the EU itself might want to punish the UK for daring to leave, individual European businesses are much more likely to act in their own best interests.
  • Options
    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Sandpit said:

    nielh said:

    MJW said:

    Just on the political implications of the passports, of course no one should care what colour the things are - but they will now, because the worst of the Brexiteers have made it so. If you think this whole thing is a travesty, especially if you're under 40 and were only dimly aware passports were ever blue, then it becomes a symbol of the ridiculousness of those who threw away many of the rights you had with a burgundy passport. It just looks like another insane salvo in the old's culture war against the young.

    And the failure of the Tories to reach out and stop Brexit becoming a culture war, is why they're in trouble against someone with as many shortcomings as Jeremy Corbyn.

    It doesn't matter in terms of the colour, as a symbol of how the selfish nostalgia of older generations have thwarted the young it does. And anger over that sort of thing is what's turned Corbyn from a no hoper from dragging in votes from those who are sceptical but feel they have no choice but to vote against a party that is doing a very good impression of one that despises them and their values.

    Good comment.

    Im expecting missed connections at schipol etc due to long queues in the non eu national line.
    They already allow Swiss and some others through Non-EU channels all over the EU. It wouldn’t take many missed connections before KLM insist on British being allowed through as they are now at Schipol.

    While the EU itself might want to punish the UK for daring to leave, individual European businesses are much more likely to act in their own best interests.
    Another variant on the BMW/ Mercedes benz will come to the rescue argument.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2017
    nielh said:

    Sandpit said:

    nielh said:

    MJW said:

    Just on the political implications of the passports, of course no one should care what colour the things are - but they will now, because the worst of the Brexiteers have made it so. If you think this whole thing is a travesty, especially if you're under 40 and were only dimly aware passports were ever blue, then it becomes a symbol of the ridiculousness of those who threw away many of the rights you had with a burgundy passport. It just looks like another insane salvo in the old's culture war against the young.

    And the failure of the Tories to reach out and stop Brexit becoming a culture war, is why they're in trouble against someone with as many shortcomings as Jeremy Corbyn.

    It doesn't matter in terms of the colour, as a symbol of how the selfish nostalgia of older generations have thwarted the young it does. And anger over that sort of thing is what's turned Corbyn from a no hoper from dragging in votes from those who are sceptical but feel they have no choice but to vote against a party that is doing a very good impression of one that despises them and their values.

    Good comment.

    Im expecting missed connections at schipol etc due to long queues in the non eu national line.
    They already allow Swiss and some others through Non-EU channels all over the EU. It wouldn’t take many missed connections before KLM insist on British being allowed through as they are now at Schipol.

    While the EU itself might want to punish the UK for daring to leave, individual European businesses are much more likely to act in their own best interests.
    Another variant on the BMW/ Mercedes benz will come to the rescue argument.
    That discussion was about a trade deal between the UK sand EU, this is about how European businesses will individually treat their British customers.

    Schipol I’d expect to bend over backwards, Charles de Gaulle not so much.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,976
    OchEye said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Have Wings been involved in polls for long?

    Wings over Christian Somerset
    The Phoney Rev., the Whinge Frae Bath.....
    He upsets some people to be sure, you unionist Tories don't like him one bit.
This discussion has been closed.