England will never rejoin the EU. Once out regulatory divergence can occur first in microns, then in inches, before later in chains, furlongs and leagues. Tories are well-practised at salami-slicing their way to a destination and this, now, is the point in time when the EU will have maximum leverage over the UK.
As you said previously about May's commitment to avoid border infrastructure:
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Indeed. We're not leaving.
Quite a lot of Brexiters saying the same today. The Brexit Paradox is born. I find it hard to believe though, that come Brexit Day 2019, all the Leavers won't be out on the streets celebrating.
Oblitus is also right, and that opinion is clearly shared by a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MPs: any kind of Brexit is Brexit. And all they have to do is solve the Irish Question in the meantime and hey presto! Hard Brexit.
As I've written before, Brexit is a self-made Doomsday machine for Euroscepticism. Their fate now is to wrestle with intractable problems the resolution of which can only weaken support for their endeavour.
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
Yes, all the signs are for another hung parliament or at most a tiny majority for either Labour or the Tories
I agree that is a reasonable expectation given the polls. But I got caught out by them this year. Judging by what I see with my own eyes things look rather different. In my constituency Labour have been in third place since forever, even 1997. But this time the came 2nd, albeit a rather poor one. But there is now an actual Labour Party in existence. They have members. They are out campaigning at weekends. They might even have a branch structure - or at least - or at least are trying to create one
Given the collapse of the LDs and UKIP Labour came second in most seats in June.
Plus most of the final polls in June suggested a slim Tory majority rather than the landslide May originally hoped for and Survation and Yougov had even predicted a hung parliament.
Another way of saying the same thing is that Labour took more votes from UKIP and the Lib Dems than the Tories did. So the most likely scenario going forward is that the Lib Dems will recover, taking more votes from Labour in the process and getting us back to the situation in the 80s and 90s where the Tories polled respectably but won big thanks to the non-Tory vote being divided.
It just doesn't feel like the 80s and 90s. The dislike of the Conservatives is a lot more visceral and widespread. And the Labour Party is beginning to look a lot more serious. I wonder if anyone knows what is going to happen next.
Yes, all the signs are for another hung parliament or at most a tiny majority for either Labour or the Tories
I agree that is a reasonable expectation given the polls. But I got caught out by them this year. Judging by what I see with my own eyes things look rather different. In my constituency Labour have been in third place since forever, even 1997. But this time the came 2nd, albeit a rather poor one. But there is now an actual Labour Party in existence. They have members. They are out campaigning at weekends. They might even have a branch structure - or at least - or at least are trying to create one
Given the collapse of the LDs and UKIP Labour came second in most seats in June.
Plus most of the final polls in June suggested a slim Tory majority rather than the landslide May originally hoped for and Survation and Yougov had even predicted a hung parliament.
Another way of saying the same thing is that Labour took more votes from UKIP and the Lib Dems than the Tories did. So the most likely scenario going forward is that the Lib Dems will recover, taking more votes from Labour in the process and getting us back to the situation in the 80s and 90s where the Tories polled respectably but won big thanks to the non-Tory vote being divided.
It just doesn't feel like the 80s and 90s. The dislike of the Conservatives is a lot more visceral and widespread. And the Labour Party is beginning to look a lot more serious. I wonder if anyone knows what is going to happen next.
Did you actually live through the '80s? I can assure you there were plenty of people ill disposed towards the Tories back then. Under Cameron, and in coalition, briefly they looked as if they might be trying to get on the wagon. Sadly those days are over.
England will never rejoin the EU. Once out regulatory divergence can occur first in microns, then in inches, before later in chains, furlongs and leagues. Tories are well-practised at salami-slicing their way to a destination and this, now, is the point in time when the EU will have maximum leverage over the UK.
As you said previously about May's commitment to avoid border infrastructure:
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Indeed. We're not leaving.
Quite a lot of Brexiters saying the same today. The Brexit Paradox is born. I find it hard to believe though, that come Brexit Day 2019, all the Leavers won't be out on the streets celebrating.
Oblitus is also right, and that opinion is clearly shared by a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MPs: any kind of Brexit is Brexit. And all they have to do is solve the Irish Question in the meantime and hey presto! Hard Brexit.
As I've written before, Brexit is a self-made Doomsday machine for Euroscepticism. Their fate now is to wrestle with intractable problems the resolution of which can only weaken support for their endeavour.
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
That vulnerability, beginning to be exposed over recent weeks, is why so many of the Brexiteers have come to the conclusion that, actually, any deal will do.
Yes, all the signs are for another hung parliament or at most a tiny majority for either Labour or the Tories
I agree that is a reasonable expectation given the polls. But I got caught out by them this year. Judging by what I see with my own eyes things look rather different. In my constituency Labour have been in third place since forever, even 1997. But this time the came 2nd, albeit a rather poor one. But there is now an actual Labour Party in existence. They have members. They are out campaigning at weekends. They might even have a branch structure - or at least - or at least are trying to create one
Given the collapse of the LDs and UKIP Labour came second in most seats in June.
Plus most of the final polls in June suggested a slim Tory majority rather than the landslide May originally hoped for and Survation and Yougov had even predicted a hung parliament.
Another way of saying the same thing is that Labour took more votes from UKIP and the Lib Dems than the Tories did. So the most likely scenario going forward is that the Lib Dems will recover, taking more votes from Labour in the process and getting us back to the situation in the 80s and 90s where the Tories polled respectably but won big thanks to the non-Tory vote being divided.
It just doesn't feel like the 80s and 90s. The dislike of the Conservatives is a lot more visceral and widespread. And the Labour Party is beginning to look a lot more serious. I wonder if anyone knows what is going to happen next.
Did you actually live through the '80s? I can assure you there were plenty of people ill disposed towards the Tories back then. Under Cameron, and in coalition, briefly they looked as if they might be trying to get on the wagon. Sadly those days are over.
I was a Fatcher hating yoof in the 80s. But I was well aware it was a minority opinion even amongst my peer group.
Yes, all the signs are for another hung parliament or at most a tiny majority for either Labour or the Tories
I agree that is a reasonable expectation given the polls. But I got caught out by them this year. Judging by what I see with my own eyes things look rather different. In my constituency Labour have been in third place since forever, even 1997. But this time the came 2nd, albeit a rather poor one. But there is now an actual Labour Party in existence. They have members. They are out campaigning at weekends. They might even have a branch structure - or at least - or at least are trying to create one
Given the collapse of the LDs and UKIP Labour came second in most seats in June.
Plus most of the final polls in June suggested a slim Tory majority rather than the landslide May originally hoped for and Survation and Yougov had even predicted a hung parliament.
Another way of saying the same thing is that Labour took more votes from UKIP and the Lib Dems than the Tories did. So the most likely scenario going forward is that the Lib Dems will recover, taking more votes from Labour in the process and getting us back to the situation in the 80s and 90s where the Tories polled respectably but won big thanks to the non-Tory vote being divided.
It just doesn't feel like the 80s and 90s. The dislike of the Conservatives is a lot more visceral and widespread. And the Labour Party is beginning to look a lot more serious. I wonder if anyone knows what is going to happen next.
The Tories took more UKIP votes than Labour last June - although those votes did not fall in their favour to the extent that many had assumed. The idea that all UKIP voters would switch to the Tories in the absence of a candidate was shown to be nonsense.
England will never rejoin the EU. Once out regulatory divergence can occur first in microns, then in inches, before later in chains, furlongs and leagues. Tories are well-practised at salami-slicing their way to a destination and this, now, is the point in time when the EU will have maximum leverage over the UK.
As you said previously about May's commitment to avoid border infrastructure:
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Indeed. We're not leaving.
Quite a lot of Brexiters saying the same today. The Brexit Paradox is born. I find it hard to believe though, that come Brexit Day 2019, all the Leavers won't be out on the streets celebrating.
Oblitus is also right, and that opinion is clearly shared by a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MPs: any kind of Brexit is Brexit. And all they have to do is solve the Irish Question in the meantime and hey presto! Hard Brexit.
As I've written before, Brexit is a self-made Doomsday machine for Euroscepticism. Their fate now is to wrestle with intractable problems the resolution of which can only weaken support for their endeavour.
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
That vulnerability, beginning to be exposed over recent weeks, is why so many of the Brexiteers have come to the conclusion that, actually, any deal will do.
LOL. I am finding the desperation amongst some Remoaners in the face of the fact we are truly going to be leaving the EU (in spite of all their strident claims to the contrary) to be very amusing.
Yes, all the signs are for another hung parliament or at most a tiny majority for either Labour or the Tories
I agree that is a reasonable expectation given the polls. But I got caught out by them this year. Judging by what I see with my own eyes things look rather different. In my constituency Labour have been in third place since forever, even 1997. But this time the came 2nd, albeit a rather poor one. But there is now an actual Labour Party in existence. They have members. They are out campaigning at weekends. They might even have a branch structure - or at least - or at least are trying to create one
Given the collapse of the LDs and UKIP Labour came second in most seats in June.
Plus most of the final polls in June suggested a slim Tory majority rather than the landslide May originally hoped for and Survation and Yougov had even predicted a hung parliament.
Another way of saying the same thing is that Labour took more votes from UKIP and the Lib Dems than the Tories did. So the most likely scenario going forward is that the Lib Dems will recover, taking more votes from Labour in the process and getting us back to the situation in the 80s and 90s where the Tories polled respectably but won big thanks to the non-Tory vote being divided.
It just doesn't feel like the 80s and 90s. The dislike of the Conservatives is a lot more visceral and widespread. And the Labour Party is beginning to look a lot more serious. I wonder if anyone knows what is going to happen next.
The Tories took more UKIP votes than Labour last June - although those votes did not fall in their favour to the extent that many had assumed. The idea that all UKIP voters would switch to the Tories in the absence of a candidate was shown to be nonsense.
Is there any evidence of churn - Tory remainers defecting to Labour, not wholly compensated for by UKIP voters?
It would have been an odd position to take given Corbyn's own lack of enthusiasm for the EU, but the whole election was more surreal than a Monty Python sketch anyway.
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Indeed. We're not leaving.
Quite a lot of Brexiters saying the same today. The Brexit Paradox is born. I find it hard to believe though, that come Brexit Day 2019, all the Leavers won't be out on the streets celebrating.
Oblitus is also right, and that opinion is clearly shared by a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MPs: any kind of Brexit is Brexit. And all they have to do is solve the Irish Question in the meantime and hey presto! Hard Brexit.
As I've written before, Brexit is a self-made Doomsday machine for Euroscepticism. Their fate now is to wrestle with intractable problems the resolution of which can only weaken support for their endeavour.
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
That vulnerability, beginning to be exposed over recent weeks, is why so many of the Brexiteers have come to the conclusion that, actually, any deal will do.
You just don't see it, do you? Any deal will do, because whether Brexit is hard or soft, it is a hard stop against any further political integration.
It is an end to the salami slice tactics of ever closer union because any time anything that would cause further integration with the EU is mooted it will be rejected.
The biggest lie - far bigger than the 350m or the punishment budget or any of the other fibs that were told during the campaign - was that we faced a choice between leaving and the status quo.
It was always a choice between leaving on whatever terms now, or eventually being dragged kicking and screaming into a federal superstate, like it or not.
So are most leavers going to be happy with "any" deal? Yes. Because it draws a line in the sand. Even the softest of soft Brexits, even BINO Brexit, prevents further erosion of our sovereignty.
It's over. The monomaniacs who wanted to see the Uk destroyed and subsumed into a federal superstate have lost.
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Indeed. We're not leaving.
Quite a lot of Brexiters saying the same today. The Brexit Paradox is born. I find it hard to believe though, that come Brexit Day 2019, all the Leavers won't be out on the streets celebrating.
Oblitus is also right, and that opinion is clearly shared by a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MPs: any kind of Brexit is Brexit. And all they have to do is solve the Irish Question in the meantime and hey presto! Hard Brexit.
As I've written before, Brexit is a self-made Doomsday machine for Euroscepticism. Their fate now is to wrestle with intractable problems the resolution of which can only weaken support for their endeavour.
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
That vulnerability, beginning to be exposed over recent weeks, is why so many of the Brexiteers have come to the conclusion that, actually, any deal will do.
You just don't see it, do you? Any deal will do, because whether Brexit is hard or soft, it is a hard stop against any further political integration.
It is an end to the salami slice tactics of ever closer union because any time anything that would cause further integration with the EU is mooted it will be rejected.
The biggest lie - far bigger than the 350m or the punishment budget or any of the other fibs that were told during the campaign - was that we faced a choice between leaving and the status quo.
It was always a choice between leaving on whatever terms now, or eventually being dragged kicking and screaming into a federal superstate, like it or not.
So are most leavers going to be happy with "any" deal? Yes. Because it draws a line in the sand. Even the softest of soft Brexits, even BINO Brexit, prevents further erosion of our sovereignty.
It's over. The monomaniacs who wanted to see the Uk destroyed and subsumed into a federal superstate have lost.
Property auctions are free to attend, have free coffee and biscuits, a toilet break, and are deeply scary and fascinating. You will be shocked by how badly dressed rich people are (seriously), terrified by the speed of the transactions (from first bid to hammer-down on each lot takes about 45-60 seconds, and the auction lasts a full working day), impressed by the hardbastard professionalism of the auction staff, taken aback by the immense wealth of some very young people, and it's an interesting day out. I recommend it.
...It was always a choice between leaving on whatever terms now, or eventually being dragged kicking and screaming into a federal superstate, like it or not...
The real "divorce" that should have happened was divorcing economc integration from political union. Sadly, that was never on the EU's mind.
...is not possible.
And yet that is exactly where we are headed now. With one foot firmly out of the door, we are able to say "non" to any further integration while slowly disentangling ourselves from the mess we've gotten ourselves into over the last forty years.
For years, there was only one direction of travel - ever closer union. The UK has rejected that direction and now the long, slow process of disentangling ourselves can begin.
We are leaving. A deal being done that involves compromises in the short term delights leavers and dismays remainers because they no longer have the scare tactic of cliff-edge Brexit to hold over our heads.
The direction of travel is clear, and ever closer union it ain't.
If we continue the divorce analogy, there's often a stage when people talk about 'getting back together' or 'remaining really good friends'. The reality is usually different. We will head our separate ways.
I agree. A divorce lawyer once confided in me that once a partner had decided upon a divorce, the marriage is effectively over: everything that follows after is arguing about splitting the assets. Your analysis is correct.
Property auctions are free to attend, have free coffee and biscuits, a toilet break, and are deeply scary and fascinating. You will be shocked by how badly dressed rich people are (seriously), terrified by the speed of the transactions (from first bid to hammer-down on each lot takes about 45-60 seconds, and the auction lasts a full working day), impressed by the hardbastard professionalism of the auction staff, taken aback by the immense wealth of some very young people, and it's an interesting day out. I recommend it.
The next auction there is November 18th.
If anyone knows any trustworthy body that buys and sells B.C., I'll take a small punt, just as I'll place some small bets on the 2022 GE. Or is that the 2018 GE? ...
When I last looked, most sellers seemed to have online reviews of 1.5 to 2.5 out of 10. That seems considerably lower than someone who's just out of prison and has opened a new market stall would get. Most Ebay sellers have at least 8.5-9.0/10.
Slight snowfall here now. Probably be a few inches tomorrow. Brr.
We had some flurries as we were on our way back from buying our Christmas Tree. I was inspired to start singing 'It's beginning to feel a lot like Christmas'. I've kept up the theme by polishing off two mince pies.
I think the above demonstrates that I am not a Brexit obsessive.
Slight snowfall here now. Probably be a few inches tomorrow. Brr.
We had some flurries as we were on our way back from buying our Christmas Tree. I was inspired to start singing 'It's beginning to feel a lot like Christmas'. I've kept up the theme by polishing off two mince pies.
I think the above demonstrates that I am not a Brexit obsessive.
A most healthy attitude. I'm now hungry for something Christmassy myself...
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Indeed. We're not leaving.
Quite a lot of Brexiters saying the same today. The Brexit Paradox is born. I find it hard to believe though, that come Brexit Day 2019, all the Leavers won't be out on the streets celebrating.
Oblitus is also right, and that opinion is clearly shared by a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MPs: any kind of Brexit is Brexit. And all they have to do is solve the Irish Question in the meantime and hey presto! Hard Brexit.
As I've written before, Brexit is a self-made Doomsday machine for Euroscepticism. Their fate now is to wrestle with intractable problems the resolution of which can only weaken support for their endeavour.
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
That vulnerability, beginning to be exposed over recent weeks, is why so many of the Brexiteers have come to the conclusion that, actually, any deal will do.
You just don't see it, do you? Any deal will do, because whether Brexit is hard or soft, it is a hard stop against any further political integration.
It is an end to the salami slice tactics of ever closer union because any time anything that would cause further integration with the EU is mooted it will be rejected.
The biggest lie - far bigger than the 350m or the punishment budget or any of the other fibs that were told during the campaign - was that we faced a choice between leaving and the status quo.
It was always a choice between leaving on whatever terms now, or eventually being dragged kicking and screaming into a federal superstate, like it or not.
So are most leavers going to be happy with "any" deal? Yes. Because it draws a line in the sand. Even the softest of soft Brexits, even BINO Brexit, prevents further erosion of our sovereignty.
It's over. The monomaniacs who wanted to see the Uk destroyed and subsumed into a federal superstate have lost.
Quite a lot of Brexiters saying the same today. The Brexit Paradox is born. I find it hard to believe though, that come Brexit Day 2019, all the Leavers won't be out on the streets celebrating.
Oblitus is also right, and that opinion is clearly shared by a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MPs: any kind of Brexit is Brexit. And all they have to do is solve the Irish Question in the meantime and hey presto! Hard Brexit.
As I've written before, Brexit is a self-made Doomsday machine for Euroscepticism. Their fate now is to wrestle with intractable problems the resolution of which can only weaken support for their endeavour.
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
That vulnerability, beginning to be exposed over recent weeks, is why so many of the Brexiteers have come to the conclusion that, actually, any deal will do.
You just don't see it, do you? Any deal will do, because whether Brexit is hard or soft, it is a hard stop against any further political integration.
It is an end to the salami slice tactics of ever closer union because any time anything that would cause further integration with the EU is mooted it will be rejected.
The biggest lie - far bigger than the 350m or the punishment budget or any of the other fibs that were told during the campaign - was that we faced a choice between leaving and the status quo.
It was always a choice between leaving on whatever terms now, or eventually being dragged kicking and screaming into a federal superstate, like it or not.
So are most leavers going to be happy with "any" deal? Yes. Because it draws a line in the sand. Even the softest of soft Brexits, even BINO Brexit, prevents further erosion of our sovereignty.
It's over. The monomaniacs who wanted to see the Uk destroyed and subsumed into a federal superstate have lost.
The real "divorce" that should have happened was divorcing economc integration from political union. Sadly, that was never on the EU's mind.
...is not possible.
And yet that is exactly where we are headed now. With one foot firmly out of the door, we are able to say "non" to any further integration while slowly disentangling ourselves from the mess we've gotten ourselves into over the last forty years.
For years, there was only one direction of travel - ever closer union. The UK has rejected that direction and now the long, slow process of disentangling ourselves can begin.
We are leaving. A deal being done that involves compromises in the short term delights leavers and dismays remainers because they no longer have the scare tactic of cliff-edge Brexit to hold over our heads.
The direction of travel is clear, and ever closer union it ain't.
it's your inane, meaningless, nihilistic ideological nationalism mate that underpinned Brexit and is only going to cause harm to this country.... Stupid, lowest common denominator politics.....
Until the financial crisis the Uk wasn't doing that bad in the EU
Comments
The moment of epiphany will hit different people at different times, so we'll see an ever growing tide of Brexiteer depression over the next year. It will be very vulnerable to a change in public sentiment.
It just doesn't feel like the 80s and 90s. The dislike of the Conservatives is a lot more visceral and widespread. And the Labour Party is beginning to look a lot more serious. I wonder if anyone knows what is going to happen next.
It would have been an odd position to take given Corbyn's own lack of enthusiasm for the EU, but the whole election was more surreal than a Monty Python sketch anyway.
It is an end to the salami slice tactics of ever closer union because any time anything that would cause further integration with the EU is mooted it will be rejected.
The biggest lie - far bigger than the 350m or the punishment budget or any of the other fibs that were told during the campaign - was that we faced a choice between leaving and the status quo.
It was always a choice between leaving on whatever terms now, or eventually being dragged kicking and screaming into a federal superstate, like it or not.
So are most leavers going to be happy with "any" deal? Yes. Because it draws a line in the sand. Even the softest of soft Brexits, even BINO Brexit, prevents further erosion of our sovereignty.
It's over. The monomaniacs who wanted to see the Uk destroyed and subsumed into a federal superstate have lost.
Rejoice.
If you do want something that is fun and possibly productive, and you have a free day in London, you may be interested in this: http://www.barnardmarcusauctions.co.uk/Auction-Venue-London.html
Property auctions are free to attend, have free coffee and biscuits, a toilet break, and are deeply scary and fascinating. You will be shocked by how badly dressed rich people are (seriously), terrified by the speed of the transactions (from first bid to hammer-down on each lot takes about 45-60 seconds, and the auction lasts a full working day), impressed by the hardbastard professionalism of the auction staff, taken aback by the immense wealth of some very young people, and it's an interesting day out. I recommend it.
The next auction there is November 18th.
For years, there was only one direction of travel - ever closer union. The UK has rejected that direction and now the long, slow process of disentangling ourselves can begin.
We are leaving. A deal being done that involves compromises in the short term delights leavers and dismays remainers because they no longer have the scare tactic of cliff-edge Brexit to hold over our heads.
The direction of travel is clear, and ever closer union it ain't.
Slight snowfall here now. Probably be a few inches tomorrow. Brr.
When I last looked, most sellers seemed to have online reviews of 1.5 to 2.5 out of 10. That seems considerably lower than someone who's just out of prison and has opened a new market stall would get. Most Ebay sellers have at least 8.5-9.0/10.
I think the above demonstrates that I am not a Brexit obsessive.
SPD playing hardball on coalition talks
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/spd-chef-schulz-attackiert-bei-parteitagsabschluss-dobrindt-15332764.html
And the Jacobites three centuries ago.
Sometimes you never go back in.
Until the financial crisis the Uk wasn't doing that bad in the EU
new thread