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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Father of six who has never been a minister nor changed a napp

SystemSystem Posts: 12,258
edited November 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Father of six who has never been a minister nor changed a nappy now favourite to succeed TMay

With all the focus on the Westminster sexual abuse scandal there has been a big change in the Conservative leadership betting. Jacob Rees-Mogg who is not and never has been a minister has now moved above a former Mayor of London and no Foreign Secretary, Mr Johnson, and just ahead of the Brexit Secretary Mr David Davis.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • What's Boris's current sprog count, and has he ever changed a nappy?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    Bizarre. Just bizarre.
  • I can sympathise with JRM, I only ever changed nappies under duress.
  • As for not being a minister, neither Blair no Cameron served as minister before they became Prime Minister, apart from one unfortunate policy mistake each, they did fine as PMs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,255
    FPT: kyf_100 said:

    "Or just not run a terrible campaign.

    It's worth remembering that TMay had a commanding lead in the polls when the election was called and, indeed, the locals during the long campaign pointed to a strong win for the Tories.

    TMay effectively missed an open goal. She took an imperious, afraid-of-the-public approach to campaigning (against a skilled stump speech opponent). She approved a manifesto with her inner circle that was effectively political suicide to her core vote (dementia tax to homeowners), miscommunicated it badly, u-turned, and of course - utterly screwed up the digital / social media element of the campaign. I remember people on here saying that the 'IRA' Facebook attack ad was a slam dunk, despite the fact I pointed out several times that all the views were paid for and therefore of little to no value, while people were sharing Labour and Momentum videos amongst their friends, getting higher view counts but more importantly generating a 'my friend recommends this' effect. The Corbyn campaign had buzz. The Tory campaign had buzz off.

    The Tories are damn lucky they were facing the Marmite Corbyn. A less divisive opponent would have stormed it for Labour."



    A less divisive opponent would have severely tempered the desire to call an early GE though.

    Yes, the Tories nationally ran a shocker. A better run campaign could easily have saved 15 seats and won 10 more, against any opponent. The balance of seats ignored vs. crazy target seats won't be repeated. Labour are benchmarked at an improbably high watermark next time out. They have a lot of seats to defend on tiny majorities.

    Where each party decides to defend and attack next time will be fascinating.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,255
    Has Theresa May ever changed a nappy, asks Andrea Leadsom, innocently.....
  • Has Theresa May ever changed a nappy, asks Andrea Leadsom, innocently.....

    Nice one
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    JRM combines three key features that make him electable: he is authentic, he is honest, and he appears to stand for something, even at the risk of it being unpopular. Conviction politicians are in vogue because in times of crisis you do not want someone who blows with the prevailing wind.

    What we are seeing is a backlash against years of career politicians who seem to care about nothing more than power for power's sake, the public being sick of a "game of thrones" approach to politics if you will. It is the same reason Corbyn is popular (even if he does have a whiff of the High Sparrow about him).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    As for not being a minister, neither Blair no Cameron served as minister before they became Prime Minister, apart from one unfortunate policy mistake each, they did fine as PMs.

    But both had been LOTO for extended periods of time running a large party, dealing with the media and setting out a portfolio of policies. JRM simply has no relevant experience. As LOTO that might just about be ok but as PM it is, well, bizarre.
  • Everytime we talk about JRM for leader, I always have to check if it is April 1st.
  • Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Has Emma Dent Coad dug another hole?
  • Mr. Eagles, if there were a snap leadership election, who would you back (NB on the basis of genuine preference, not accounting for any betting position)? Gove?
  • In 2017, being totally unqualified for the job, or being an IRA-sympathising Marxist dinosaur, doesn't matter, but not having changed a nappy is fatal.
  • DavidL said:

    As for not being a minister, neither Blair no Cameron served as minister before they became Prime Minister, apart from one unfortunate policy mistake each, they did fine as PMs.

    But both had been LOTO for extended periods of time running a large party, dealing with the media and setting out a portfolio of policies. JRM simply has no relevant experience. As LOTO that might just about be ok but as PM it is, well, bizarre.
    Corbyn did it and polled 41% at the general election.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    edited November 2017

    Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Why? I don't know a lot about her but the homeopathy nonsense is troubling.

    Edit, in fairness this from Wiki is encouraging:

    "Mordaunt remarked “I have benefited from some excellent training by the Royal Navy, but on one occasion I felt that it was not as bespoke as it might have been. Fascinating though it was, I felt that the lecture and practical demonstration on how to care for the penis and testicles in the field failed to appreciate that some of us attending had been issued with the incorrect kit.”
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    But he wont get the Tory leadership.
  • Mr. Eagles, if there were a snap leadership election, who would you back (NB on the basis of genuine preference, not accounting for any betting position)? Gove?

    From the current crop of MPs

    1) Mercer

    2) Hunt

    3) Tugendhat

    4) Rudd
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,397
    edited November 2017
    kyf_100 said:

    JRM combines three key features that make him electable: he is authentic, he is honest, and he appears to stand for something, even at the risk of it being unpopular. Conviction politicians are in vogue because in times of crisis you do not want someone who blows with the prevailing wind.

    What we are seeing is a backlash against years of career politicians who seem to care about nothing more than power for power's sake, the public being sick of a "game of thrones" approach to politics if you will. It is the same reason Corbyn is popular (even if he does have a whiff of the High Sparrow about him).

    Jacob Rees-Mogg is the most inauthentic politician I can think of. For all her faults, Theresa May is authentic. She is what she appears to be. Jeremy Corbyn is mostly so, although he has taken on a gloss recently. Even Boris Johnson, once you accept he is a total charlatan, hardly pretends to be anything else.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg is a caricature. That's not to say there is nothing behind the caricature. I think there is and it looks unpleasant. But he certainly isn't what he pretends to be.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    DavidL said:

    As for not being a minister, neither Blair no Cameron served as minister before they became Prime Minister, apart from one unfortunate policy mistake each, they did fine as PMs.

    But both had been LOTO for extended periods of time running a large party, dealing with the media and setting out a portfolio of policies. JRM simply has no relevant experience. As LOTO that might just about be ok but as PM it is, well, bizarre.
    Would May be a markedly worse PM if she hadn't had shadow or real portfolios since 1999?
  • DavidL said:

    Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Why? I don't know a lot about her but the homeopathy nonsense is troubling.

    Edit, in fairness this from Wiki is encouraging:

    "Mordaunt remarked “I have benefited from some excellent training by the Royal Navy, but on one occasion I felt that it was not as bespoke as it might have been. Fascinating though it was, I felt that the lecture and practical demonstration on how to care for the penis and testicles in the field failed to appreciate that some of us attending had been issued with the incorrect kit.”
    Forget her homeopathy idiocy, Mordaunt backed Leadsom for leader last year.

    That screams unfit for high office.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Leadsom only got there because Boris did not run. In my view there is no way Boris can duck a second time and still be taken credibly as a leadership candidate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DavidL said:

    As for not being a minister, neither Blair no Cameron served as minister before they became Prime Minister, apart from one unfortunate policy mistake each, they did fine as PMs.

    But both had been LOTO for extended periods of time running a large party, dealing with the media and setting out a portfolio of policies. JRM simply has no relevant experience. As LOTO that might just about be ok but as PM it is, well, bizarre.
    Would May be a markedly worse PM if she hadn't had shadow or real portfolios since 1999?
    Its quite hard to imagine but the answer must be yes. She must have some idea of how government actually works even if she is not very good at it.
  • Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?
  • The Tories need Rees Mogg in charge. It’s the only way to tame their right flank. Ultimately, the Conservative party is deeply pragmatic. It will see how the Moggster and his policies fare under the harsh, unstinting glare of the spotlight and will move back to the centre.
  • Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
  • Has Theresa May ever changed a nappy, asks Andrea Leadsom, innocently.....

    As badly as Leadsom's remarks backfired its entirely possible she was correct. Would May have perhaps not approved the electoral suicide that was the dementia tax had she had kids herself?
  • In 2017, being totally unqualified for the job, or being an IRA-sympathising Marxist dinosaur

    Who has taken £20,000 from the Iranian regime......
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,255

    Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    The alternative was Theresa May, though..... Which I would have thought might temper your criticism.

    Johnny Mercer has the potential to form a "cross-party" coalition with voters not seen since Blair.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    DavidL said:

    Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Why? I don't know a lot about her but the homeopathy nonsense is troubling.

    Edit, in fairness this from Wiki is encouraging:

    "Mordaunt remarked “I have benefited from some excellent training by the Royal Navy, but on one occasion I felt that it was not as bespoke as it might have been. Fascinating though it was, I felt that the lecture and practical demonstration on how to care for the penis and testicles in the field failed to appreciate that some of us attending had been issued with the incorrect kit.”
    Forget her homeopathy idiocy, Mordaunt backed Leadsom for leader last year.

    That screams unfit for high office.
    It's not an obvious plus point is it? Mind you the choice was poor. But if Morris has 81/1 his enthusiasm is understandable.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,255

    Has Theresa May ever changed a nappy, asks Andrea Leadsom, innocently.....

    As badly as Leadsom's remarks backfired its entirely possible she was correct. Would May have perhaps not approved the electoral suicide that was the dementia tax had she had kids herself?
    That's a bit tenuous....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
    Did Mercer not shoot himself in both his frustrated feet at the weekend?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,255
    DavidL said:

    Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
    Did Mercer not shoot himself in both his frustrated feet at the weekend?
    Only if May goes on and on....
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
  • Whatever you think of him, Boris at 10/1 has to be value. He still has a lot of support in the party, particularly among the keen Brexiteers. If he makes the final two surely he'll win.
  • Has Theresa May ever changed a nappy, asks Andrea Leadsom, innocently.....

    As badly as Leadsom's remarks backfired its entirely possible she was correct. Would May have perhaps not approved the electoral suicide that was the dementia tax had she had kids herself?
    That's a bit tenuous....
    So was the series of events that turned a 20 point lead in the polls to a hung Parliament.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,374
    It has to be #Esther4Leader

    To maximise Labour's chances...
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    The alternative was Theresa May, though..... Which I would have thought might temper your criticism.

    Johnny Mercer has the potential to form a "cross-party" coalition with voters not seen since Blair.
    Yup, that's exactly what someone said to me about him. I'll never forget my 'introduction' to Mr Mercer.

    Back in April 2015 someone who was working on the Tory campaign lamented picking Johnny Mercer in that seat, 'We should have got him a safe seat, he's going to be leader and win a Blair landslide in the 2030s instead of the 2020s now'

    We were both so chuffed when he won Plymouth in 2015.
  • DavidL said:

    Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
    Did Mercer not shoot himself in both his frustrated feet at the weekend?
    Nope.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,516
    edited November 2017

    Whatever you think of him, Boris at 10/1 has to be value. He still has a lot of support in the party, particularly among the keen Brexiteers. If he makes the final two surely he'll win.

    He won’t make the final two. Even his own wife doesn’t trust him, it would give the opposition a field day. Why do you think he bailed out last time? My biggest political betting win was £1k laying Boris for next leader in 2015 - at evens.
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
    And May is so much better? What have been May's tremendous successes and accomplishments to be proud of that Leadsom couldn't have done?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    DavidL said:

    Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
    Did Mercer not shoot himself in both his frustrated feet at the weekend?
    Nope.
    I'm not saying he is wrong but: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/johnny-mercer-government-danger-losing-766468

    "“It smells of decline, and the people won’t have it."

    I very much doubt Mrs May appreciated that bon mot.
  • Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, that highly schooled and poorly educated dilettante.......

    https://stephendaisley.com/2017/11/13/how-bounders-chancers-and-charlatans-took-over-politics/amp/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,516
    DavidL said:

    Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Why? I don't know a lot about her but the homeopathy nonsense is troubling.

    Edit, in fairness this from Wiki is encouraging:

    "Mordaunt remarked “I have benefited from some excellent training by the Royal Navy, but on one occasion I felt that it was not as bespoke as it might have been. Fascinating though it was, I felt that the lecture and practical demonstration on how to care for the penis and testicles in the field failed to appreciate that some of us attending had been issued with the incorrect kit.”
    Penny Mordaunt has one quality that most politicians lack - a seriously good sense of humour. Her Loyal Address and famous “cock” speech were both hillarious.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,255

    Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    The alternative was Theresa May, though..... Which I would have thought might temper your criticism.

    Johnny Mercer has the potential to form a "cross-party" coalition with voters not seen since Blair.
    Yup, that's exactly what someone said to me about him. I'll never forget my 'introduction' to Mr Mercer.

    Back in April 2015 someone who was working on the Tory campaign lamented picking Johnny Mercer in that seat, 'We should have got him a safe seat, he's going to be leader and win a Blair landslide in the 2030s instead of the 2020s now'

    We were both so chuffed when he won Plymouth in 2015.
    He won that seat because he personally knocked on every door in the constituency. He has astonishing energy.
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
    And May is so much better? What have been May's tremendous successes and accomplishments to be proud of that Leadsom couldn't have done?
    Well as Home Secretary

    1) Stopping the frankly Jim Crow/Apartheidesque Stop and Search

    2) Working well on reducing modern slavery

    3) Introducing same-sex marriage.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,516
    kyf_100 said:

    JRM combines three key features that make him electable: he is authentic, he is honest, and he appears to stand for something, even at the risk of it being unpopular. Conviction politicians are in vogue because in times of crisis you do not want someone who blows with the prevailing wind.

    What we are seeing is a backlash against years of career politicians who seem to care about nothing more than power for power's sake, the public being sick of a "game of thrones" approach to politics if you will. It is the same reason Corbyn is popular (even if he does have a whiff of the High Sparrow about him).

    A good point. People are seriously fed up with the professional politicians who believe in nothing except power itself.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
    Did Mercer not shoot himself in both his frustrated feet at the weekend?
    Nope.
    I'm not saying he is wrong but: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/johnny-mercer-government-danger-losing-766468

    "“It smells of decline, and the people won’t have it."

    I very much doubt Mrs May appreciated that bon mot.
    He added that he supports Theresa May “to the hilt” and urged the party to seize the middle ground in politics, adding: “We have to give people something to vote for.”
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
    And May is so much better? What have been May's tremendous successes and accomplishments to be proud of that Leadsom couldn't have done?
    Well as Home Secretary

    1) Stopping the frankly Jim Crow/Apartheidesque Stop and Search

    2) Working well on reducing modern slavery

    3) Introducing same-sex marriage.
    As PM and Party Leader?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720

    Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
    And May is so much better? What have been May's tremendous successes and accomplishments to be proud of that Leadsom couldn't have done?
    Well as Home Secretary

    1) Stopping the frankly Jim Crow/Apartheidesque Stop and Search

    .
    Which worked so well that violent crime in London surged, and Amber Rudd and Cressida Dick stepped up the use of stop and search.

  • An Immigration Lawyer reviews Paddington 2 (SPOILERS)

    https://www.freemovement.org.uk/an-immigration-lawyer-reviews-paddington-2-hostile-environment/

    Saw it this evening = Hugh Grant has great fun......
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
    And May is so much better? What have been May's tremendous successes and accomplishments to be proud of that Leadsom couldn't have done?
    Well as Home Secretary

    1) Stopping the frankly Jim Crow/Apartheidesque Stop and Search

    2) Working well on reducing modern slavery

    3) Introducing same-sex marriage.
    As PM and Party Leader?
    She's doing her best to sabotage Brexit, that's about it.
  • Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
    And May is so much better? What have been May's tremendous successes and accomplishments to be proud of that Leadsom couldn't have done?
    Well as Home Secretary

    1) Stopping the frankly Jim Crow/Apartheidesque Stop and Search

    .
    Which worked so well that violent crime in London surged, and Amber Rudd and Cressida Dick stepped up the use of stop and search.

    Stop and Search was reduced to 2002 levels, correlation and causation aren't the same thing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    JRM combines three key features that make him electable: he is authentic, he is honest, and he appears to stand for something, even at the risk of it being unpopular. Conviction politicians are in vogue because in times of crisis you do not want someone who blows with the prevailing wind.

    What we are seeing is a backlash against years of career politicians who seem to care about nothing more than power for power's sake, the public being sick of a "game of thrones" approach to politics if you will. It is the same reason Corbyn is popular (even if he does have a whiff of the High Sparrow about him).

    A good point. People are seriously fed up with the professional politicians who believe in nothing except power itself.
    They obviously listen to Lord Voldemort: "There is no good and evil, there is only power and those too weak to seek it.” Although I don't recall him standing for election too often.

    Talking of whom I am almost sure that Penny Mordaunt must be an HP character.
  • Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Are Vespasian, Titus and Domitian some of the older Rees-Mogg sons?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720

    Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Are Vespasian, Titus and Domitian some of the older Rees-Mogg sons?

    Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Are Vespasian, Titus and Domitian some of the older Rees-Mogg sons?
    Those names are too common.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
    Did Mercer not shoot himself in both his frustrated feet at the weekend?
    Nope.
    I'm not saying he is wrong but: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/johnny-mercer-government-danger-losing-766468

    "“It smells of decline, and the people won’t have it."

    I very much doubt Mrs May appreciated that bon mot.
    He added that he supports Theresa May “to the hilt” and urged the party to seize the middle ground in politics, adding: “We have to give people something to vote for.”
    Yes...hilt of what exactly. InforMay, InforMay, they've all got it in for May.
  • Mr. Meeks, I would not be shocked if he had sons called Vespasian and Titus.

    Titus is a pretty cool name.

    Mr. L, there's a rather nice speech by Davros in Genesis of the Daleks, in which he censures democracy (I think because of the compromise it entails). A shame he was buggered up in New Who.
  • Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    The alternative was Theresa May, though..... Which I would have thought might temper your criticism.

    Johnny Mercer has the potential to form a "cross-party" coalition with voters not seen since Blair.
    Yup, that's exactly what someone said to me about him. I'll never forget my 'introduction' to Mr Mercer.

    Back in April 2015 someone who was working on the Tory campaign lamented picking Johnny Mercer in that seat, 'We should have got him a safe seat, he's going to be leader and win a Blair landslide in the 2030s instead of the 2020s now'

    We were both so chuffed when he won Plymouth in 2015.
    He won that seat because he personally knocked on every door in the constituency. He has astonishing energy.
    Yup, he also saw a Lab to Con swing in June whilst his neighbouring Tory MP lost his seat.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    FPT

    A less divisive opponent would have severely tempered the desire to call an early GE though.

    Yes, the Tories nationally ran a shocker. A better run campaign could easily have saved 15 seats and won 10 more, against any opponent. The balance of seats ignored vs. crazy target seats won't be repeated. Labour are benchmarked at an improbably high watermark next time out. They have a lot of seats to defend on tiny majorities.

    Where each party decides to defend and attack next time will be fascinating.

    Agreed. You have to wonder what Messina and co were smoking to have a) targeted the seats they did and b) to have run an incredibly incompetent social media campaign that relied on granular data (which judging from (a) was quite possibly completely inaccurate) in order to localise targeted ads, when it was clear a huge, organic groundswell of support was forming behind Corbyn. I suppose they probably looked at it and thought "a localised targeted approach is the best shot we have, because nobody's going to buy into TMay the way they have bought into Corbyn".

    The Tory campaign was shocking and incompetent. But the thing to remember is that TMay had a commanding lead in the polls that should have given her a 150+ seat majority before the campaign began and the manifestos were launched.

    One of the more interesting counterfactuals I often ask myself is, what would have happened had Labour run on the same manifesto but with a less divisive leader, e.g. Burnham.

    Part of me says there would be a PM Burnham in office right now, because it was the labour manifesto (end to tuition fees, nationalised railways etc) that people were voting for and the Tory manfiesto (dementia tax) they were voting against. The other part of me thinks that despite being Marmite, Corbyn's charisma was able to win a lot of people over and Labour would have done worse under another identikit Burnham / Miliband style politician. But that's the problem with counterfactuals. We'll never really know.
  • Mr. Meeks, I would not be shocked if he had sons called Vespasian and Titus.

    Titus is a pretty cool name.

    Mr. L, there's a rather nice speech by Davros in Genesis of the Daleks, in which he censures democracy (I think because of the compromise it entails). A shame he was buggered up in New Who.

    Domitian Meeks has a ring to it. I'll consider a name change.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,255
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Pretty sure Vespasian didn't look after Titus and Domitian when they were little either.

    I don't think Mogg will make the final two. Penny Mordaunt absolutely should.

    Why? I don't know a lot about her but the homeopathy nonsense is troubling.

    Edit, in fairness this from Wiki is encouraging:

    "Mordaunt remarked “I have benefited from some excellent training by the Royal Navy, but on one occasion I felt that it was not as bespoke as it might have been. Fascinating though it was, I felt that the lecture and practical demonstration on how to care for the penis and testicles in the field failed to appreciate that some of us attending had been issued with the incorrect kit.”
    Penny Mordaunt has one quality that most politicians lack - a seriously good sense of humour. Her Loyal Address and famous “cock” speech were both hillarious.
    Politicians have to be careful with their sense of humour. Sometimes it really doesn't go with their expected demeanour in office. William Hague obviously had a cracking SOH, but it probably counted against him in the end. Rather more brutal are the Beast of Bolsover's bon mots, although it is easy to keep lobbing them in from the backbenches.

    But some just don't appear to have an SOH at all. Theresa May won't have a second career as an after dinner speaker, I'd suggest. Hard to see the Momentum crowd telling a joke that wasn't at the expense of somebody who has got in their way. But better that than George Osborne, giggling himself silly on the Front Bench. Or those party sycophants who are rendered into paroxysms of laughter by one of their colleagues delivering a sub-Christmas cracker gag.

    One of the best SOH in the Commons - and kept very well under wraps - was apparently Dr Ian Paisley. I'm told he was a hoot - in private!
  • kyf_100 said:

    FPT

    A less divisive opponent would have severely tempered the desire to call an early GE though.

    Yes, the Tories nationally ran a shocker. A better run campaign could easily have saved 15 seats and won 10 more, against any opponent. The balance of seats ignored vs. crazy target seats won't be repeated. Labour are benchmarked at an improbably high watermark next time out. They have a lot of seats to defend on tiny majorities.

    Where each party decides to defend and attack next time will be fascinating.

    Agreed. You have to wonder what Messina and co were smoking to have a) targeted the seats they did and b) to have run an incredibly incompetent social media campaign that relied on granular data (which judging from (a) was quite possibly completely inaccurate) in order to localise targeted ads, when it was clear a huge, organic groundswell of support was forming behind Corbyn. I suppose they probably looked at it and thought "a localised targeted approach is the best shot we have, because nobody's going to buy into TMay the way they have bought into Corbyn".

    The Tory campaign was shocking and incompetent. But the thing to remember is that TMay had a commanding lead in the polls that should have given her a 150+ seat majority before the campaign began and the manifestos were launched.

    One of the more interesting counterfactuals I often ask myself is, what would have happened had Labour run on the same manifesto but with a less divisive leader, e.g. Burnham.

    Part of me says there would be a PM Burnham in office right now, because it was the labour manifesto (end to tuition fees, nationalised railways etc) that people were voting for and the Tory manfiesto (dementia tax) they were voting against. The other part of me thinks that despite being Marmite, Corbyn's charisma was able to win a lot of people over and Labour would have done worse under another identikit Burnham / Miliband style politician. But that's the problem with counterfactuals. We'll never really know.
    The Crosby/Messina strategy was sound, it worked in 2015, framing it as the Tory leader versus the Labour leader (and the SNP)

    Cameron managed not to trash his reputation during the 2015 campaign, Mrs May well.....
  • Mr. Meeks, there are better emperors whose names you could adopt.

    Wouldn't you rather be Trajan? Or Aurelian?
  • Mr. Meeks, I would not be shocked if he had sons called Vespasian and Titus.

    Titus is a pretty cool name.

    Mr. L, there's a rather nice speech by Davros in Genesis of the Daleks, in which he censures democracy (I think because of the compromise it entails). A shame he was buggered up in New Who.

    Domitian Meeks has a ring to it. I'll consider a name change.
    Shortened to Dom Meeks.

    Shoulds like the nom de guerre for a dominatrix who services meek men.

    Oh crap, I'm typing this on a work laptop.
  • Mr. Meeks, there are better emperors whose names you could adopt.

    Wouldn't you rather be Trajan? Or Aurelian?

    Elagabalus would be good too. A bit of a mouthful though.
  • Mr. Eagles, you silly sausage.

    The feminine version is 'domme', not 'dom'. Dom Meeks would be a man.
  • Mr. Eagles, you silly sausage.

    The feminine version is 'domme', not 'dom'. Dom Meeks would be a man.

    How dare you assume my gender.
  • Mr. Meeks, I'm not sure a cross-dressing psychotic is the best model...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,135

    Mr. Eagles, you silly sausage.

    The feminine version is 'domme', not 'dom'. Dom Meeks would be a man.

    At least there is only one of them... :D
  • Mr. Eagles, you silly sausage.

    The feminine version is 'domme', not 'dom'. Dom Meeks would be a man.

    You have led a sheltered life.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Mr. L, homeopathy is nonsense, but my 81 or so bet on her to be next leader forgives it.

    Mr. Eagles, reckon Mercer or Tugendhat will get promoted at any point?

    If there's any justice in the world, the fact Mrs May won't promote Rory Stewart doesn't fill me with confidence.
    Did Mercer not shoot himself in both his frustrated feet at the weekend?
    Nope.
    I'm not saying he is wrong but: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/johnny-mercer-government-danger-losing-766468

    "“It smells of decline, and the people won’t have it."

    I very much doubt Mrs May appreciated that bon mot.
    He added that he supports Theresa May “to the hilt” and urged the party to seize the middle ground in politics, adding: “We have to give people something to vote for.”
    The "middle ground" is contaminated - it gave us Iraq, the financial crisis and austerity. It is seen by many as being populated by identikit politicians whose stock in trade is meaningless soundbites, flexible principles and self-enrichment. This may not be fair, but it is a widely-held perception. People do not want more of the same - there is a huge desire for something different, as evidenced by the Brexit vote and the general election result (and Trump in the US). There is no way back to the "middle ground" approach of Blair and Cameron, it is a bygone era. We are moving into an age of sharper divisions, radical prescriptions and a desire for more authenticity in politics.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    kyf_100 said:



    Agreed. You have to wonder what Messina and co were smoking to have a) targeted the seats they did and b) to have run an incredibly incompetent social media campaign that relied on granular data (which judging from (a) was quite possibly completely inaccurate) in order to localise targeted ads, when it was clear a huge, organic groundswell of support was forming behind Corbyn. I suppose they probably looked at it and thought "a localised targeted approach is the best shot we have, because nobody's going to buy into TMay the way they have bought into Corbyn".

    The Tory campaign was shocking and incompetent. But the thing to remember is that TMay had a commanding lead in the polls that should have given her a 150+ seat majority before the campaign began and the manifestos were launched.

    One of the more interesting counterfactuals I often ask myself is, what would have happened had Labour run on the same manifesto but with a less divisive leader, e.g. Burnham.

    Part of me says there would be a PM Burnham in office right now, because it was the labour manifesto (end to tuition fees, nationalised railways etc) that people were voting for and the Tory manfiesto (dementia tax) they were voting against. The other part of me thinks that despite being Marmite, Corbyn's charisma was able to win a lot of people over and Labour would have done worse under another identikit Burnham / Miliband style politician. But that's the problem with counterfactuals. We'll never really know.

    The Crosby/Messina strategy was sound, it worked in 2015, framing it as the Tory leader versus the Labour leader (and the SNP)

    Cameron managed not to trash his reputation during the 2015 campaign, Mrs May well.....
    I question an approach that saw the Tories gunning for seats in the north they haven't gotten close to in a generation. Remember when we were all talking about Blyth Valley, Tynemouth, even whether or not Dennis Skinner would hang on in Bolsover.

    But more importantly I also question the decision to run an extremely negative campaign whose USP was almost entirely stick with nurse for fear of worse, which was _exactly_ why the Remain campaign lost. Project fear failed.

    Elections ultimately boil down to "it's too much of a risk, don't chance it" vs "it's time for change" and if 2016 taught us anything, it's that the general public are in the mood for change. The Labour manifesto, despite being sheer lunacy on many levels (much like some of the promises made by Vote Leave), offered people hope. And that is what they bought.
  • Mr. Meeks, Morris Dancer laughs in the face of political correctness.
  • From the horse's mouth (or some part of its anatomy).

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/930097017405214720
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    BoZo dragged back to the Commons

    @Peston: .@BorisJohnson has finally said explicitly that Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe was in Iran on holiday, and not training journalists. And he apologises for being misunderstood!!!

    @IanDunt: He then apologises but immediately follows w word "if". I stopped listening. No political apology with the word "if" at the end is worth listening to.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    JRM combines three key features that make him electable: he is authentic, he is honest, and he appears to stand for something, even at the risk of it being unpopular. Conviction politicians are in vogue because in times of crisis you do not want someone who blows with the prevailing wind.

    What we are seeing is a backlash against years of career politicians who seem to care about nothing more than power for power's sake, the public being sick of a "game of thrones" approach to politics if you will. It is the same reason Corbyn is popular (even if he does have a whiff of the High Sparrow about him).

    A good point. People are seriously fed up with the professional politicians who believe in nothing except power itself.
    The problem with conviction politicians, is that they are unlikely to change their convictions as the facts change.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,516

    From the horse's mouth (or some part of its anatomy).

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/930097017405214720

    Boris has managed to quite royally screw this one up. Given that the lady in question is a dual citizen of the country in question, there’s precisely nothing he could have done to help her situation.
  • Speaking of apologies, at what time do we get Emma Dent Coad's?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    One of the best SOH in the Commons - and kept very well under wraps - was apparently Dr Ian Paisley. I'm told he was a hoot - in private!

    Have you read Jon Ronson's story of shadowing Dr Paisley in Africa? Well worth a read.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Scott_P said:

    BoZo dragged back to the Commons

    @Peston: .@BorisJohnson has finally said explicitly that Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe was in Iran on holiday, and not training journalists. And he apologises for being misunderstood!!!

    @IanDunt: He then apologises but immediately follows w word "if". I stopped listening. No political apology with the word "if" at the end is worth listening to.

    Do we know how many Tory MPs have turned out to support him?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,287
    edited November 2017
    Yuk.

    The British electorate will never choose a tit like him to become PM. Even the Tory membership should realise this, surely?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,374

    Alistair said:

    I asked this a few weeks ago but what is JRM's path to the final 2?

    I don't see it.

    I can't see him making him to the final two, or being even close.

    Then I remember last year 84 Tory MPs thought Andrea Leadsom should be our PM.
    Perhaps she should have been.

    She sounded much more pragmatic than May on Brexit (eg on the right for those settled here to remain unconditionally) and May's government has hardly been a resounding success.
    Nope, Leadsom's a bit simple minded.
    And May is so much better? What have been May's tremendous successes and accomplishments to be proud of that Leadsom couldn't have done?
    Well as Home Secretary

    1) Stopping the frankly Jim Crow/Apartheidesque Stop and Search

    2) Working well on reducing modern slavery

    3) Introducing same-sex marriage.
    4) Getting net migration down to the 'tens of thousands'. Or perhaps not.

    I will give her:

    5) Lasting 6 years without being sacked.
  • Looks like Boris Johnson has dumped Gove in this mess as well.
  • Looks like Boris Johnson has dumped Gove in this mess as well.

    Now why would he do a thing like that?
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Looks like Boris Johnson has dumped Gove in this mess as well.

    The Laurel & Hardy of politics
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Looks like Boris Johnson has dumped Gove in this mess as well.

    Now why would he do a thing like that?
    Laurel and Hardy could become an unfortunate look for that pair.
  • IanB2 said:

    Yuk.

    The British electorate will never choose a tit like him to become PM. Even the Tory membership should realise this, surely?

    QTWTAIN?
  • As for not being a minister, neither Blair no Cameron served as minister before they became Prime Minister, apart from one unfortunate policy mistake each, they did fine as PMs.

    Being LotO is better training than even being a cabinet minister. You run your party, lead the setting of the policy agenda, lead the advocacy of it to the public and media, dispense patronage, and enjoy (or not) a media profile well above a cabinet minister. True, you can to an extent pick and choose your points of attack more than a PM and you don't have to do detail to the same extent (but you do still have to do it), but all-in-all, being a successful Loto is probably a better predictive tool as to who will be a successful PM than being a successful minister is.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    edited November 2017
    This is quite the poll finding:

    By 37% to 28% Alabama evangelicals say they are more likely to vote for Roy Moore following the allegations of sexual misconduct with children.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/360010-poll-37-percent-of-alabama-evangelicals-more-likely-to-vote-for-moore-after

    Presumably they think the allegations are some kind of conspiracy... but even still that's an impressive result.

  • Ishmael_Z said:

    DavidL said:

    As for not being a minister, neither Blair no Cameron served as minister before they became Prime Minister, apart from one unfortunate policy mistake each, they did fine as PMs.

    But both had been LOTO for extended periods of time running a large party, dealing with the media and setting out a portfolio of policies. JRM simply has no relevant experience. As LOTO that might just about be ok but as PM it is, well, bizarre.
    Would May be a markedly worse PM if she hadn't had shadow or real portfolios since 1999?
    May wouldn't be PM had she not been on the front bench,.
  • Mr. rkrkrk, the weirdest finding (from years ago so no link, alas) I remember from the US was on trust. It was about how likely you were to give a lift to a hitchhiker if they were X. The least trusted, being tied on dodginess, categories were rapists and atheists.

    I cannot fathom the thinking (I use the term generously) that can't separate in moral terms people who don't believe in a god, and people who are violent sex attackers. But there we are.
  • Mr. rkrkrk, the weirdest finding (from years ago so no link, alas) I remember from the US was on trust. It was about how likely you were to give a lift to a hitchhiker if they were X. The least trusted, being tied on dodginess, categories were rapists and atheists.

    I cannot fathom the thinking (I use the term generously) that can't separate in moral terms people who don't believe in a god, and people who are violent sex attackers. But there we are.

    Well God was a violent sex offender.

    He impregnated Mary without her consent.
  • On topic, the punters are misleading themselves. JRM is fine as a signpost backbencher but could't, as leader, confine himself to the sort of interviews he's conducted so far. Yes, he's polite, knowledgeable and intelligent but that's nothing like enough.

    What is his ability to manage a government and parliamentary party like? What are his negotiating skills like? How well does he advocate a policy that he's not that interested in (and as a PM, you must be prepared to advocate your party's policy across the board; a backbencher has a luxury in choosing his or her interests).

    The only Mogg Downing St needs is Larry.
  • Mr. rkrkrk, the weirdest finding (from years ago so no link, alas) I remember from the US was on trust. It was about how likely you were to give a lift to a hitchhiker if they were X. The least trusted, being tied on dodginess, categories were rapists and atheists.

    I cannot fathom the thinking (I use the term generously) that can't separate in moral terms people who don't believe in a god, and people who are violent sex attackers. But there we are.

    I'd love to know how you could identify members of either group just from how they stick out their thumb.
This discussion has been closed.