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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Today could have been the day when BoJo’s dream of becoming PM

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    BBC radio: Priti Patel in "deep trouble".
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    Given recent history, Jeremy corbyn probably stands a better chance of being a Tory cabinet minster than Rory the Tory.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,753

    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: But don’t forget govt so fragile, if there is a way to keep Patel that doesn’t look insane, Number 10 might go for it

    (my emphasis)
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    Scott_P said:

    Assuming May does actually find the bottle to sack Priti, does she replace her with

    a. Someone vaguely competent from the new intake?
    b. Another Brexiteer. Bill Cash or John Redwood?

    Peter Bone or Jacob Rees Mogg.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    I think she's always been very unpopular with certain people for daring to want to cut the foreign aid budget.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Priti Patel, conference speech October 7:

    "I am introducing a tough Code of Conduct, with legally enforceable sanctions for non-compliance, to root out unethical behaviour."
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    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
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    I presume either Rory Stewart or Alastair Burt will get the job.

    Knowing May, I think she'd prefer someone like Burt, even though it should be Stewart.
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    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: But don’t forget govt so fragile, if there is a way to keep Patel that doesn’t look insane, Number 10 might go for it

    (my emphasis)

    TM has to fire her
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2017
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    Scott_P said:
    They are under fire for stupidity - nothing else
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    Scott_P said:
    They are under fire for stupidity - nothing else
    Yes, but it's hardly surprising some Brexiteers are paranoid about that when that's exactly what many Remainers are trying to do.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,410
    edited November 2017

    I presume either Rory Stewart or Alastair Burt will get the job.

    Knowing May, I think she'd prefer someone like Burt, even though it should be Stewart.

    Promote Esther into the cabinet
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    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
    Kind of like Damian Green getting his just desserts from the police?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Even the lady held in Iran blames the Iranian government not Boris.

    There is also a clear strain of anti Israeli bias in the Patel claims, dressed up in the concerns over the 'ministerial code' and of course the fact both are Brexiteers indeed drives hardline Remainers.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    some Brexiteers are paranoid

    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean we're not out to get you...
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    AndyJS said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    I think she's always been very unpopular with certain people for daring to want to cut the foreign aid budget.
    My point is that if you go against what parts of the civil service perceive to be accepted orthodoxy they will be out to get you.
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    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
    Kind of like Damian Green getting his just desserts from the police?
    No, nothing like that.

    When you're unnecessarily and gratuitously rude to people don't be surprised if they return the favour.
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    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: No10 sources say Patel definitely not being sacked tonight, not least as PM hasn't had chance to talk to her directly re new claims. Sounds like ominous breakfast phone call.
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    Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    I was just about to ask whether she was a "remoaner" or a "fruit job" but you have answered that. If I were PM I'd sack them both and take the consequences because anything other than that just undermines the post of PM for whoever follows.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ProfBrianCox: He’s got to resign hasn’t he? Surely ? https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/928002263049744385
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    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
    Kind of like Damian Green getting his just desserts from the police?
    No, nothing like that.

    When you're unnecessarily and gratuitously rude to people don't be surprised if they return the favour.
    I'm not aware she had been. I was aware she had strongly criticised the aid budget and the approach of DfID.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,035

    I presume either Rory Stewart or Alastair Burt will get the job.

    Knowing May, I think she'd prefer someone like Burt, even though it should be Stewart.

    Although Burt has shown willingness to turn up and take the flak for others. He did a reasonable job today imho on a very sticky wicket.
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    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
    Kind of like Damian Green getting his just desserts from the police?
    No, nothing like that.

    When you're unnecessarily and gratuitously rude to people don't be surprised if they return the favour.
    I'm not aware she had been. I was aware she had strongly criticised the aid budget and the approach of DfID.
    Even before she became International Development Secretary she was known for being rude/abrasive.

    She's got that awful ability you see across any work place, she thinks and acts like she's very clever when in fact she's not.

    Remember for ages, she kept on telling anyone who would listen her performance on QT on the death penalty was a success.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited November 2017
    Boris Johnson = tw*t. Pure and simple.

    What a f*cking embarrassment to this country. Begone pest!!
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,686
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    some Brexiteers are paranoid

    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean we're not out to get you...
    Well, quite, Scott.

    I'm not saying you have to like it, or support it, but one of the reasons constructive dialogue has largely broken down between Remainers and Leavers (and I accept Leavers have a part to play in this as well with their own behaviour) is because so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    dixiedean said:

    Although Burt has shown willingness to turn up and take the flak for others. He did a reasonable job today imho on a very sticky wicket.

    https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/927889138057170944
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    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
    Kind of like Damian Green getting his just desserts from the police?
    No, nothing like that.

    When you're unnecessarily and gratuitously rude to people don't be surprised if they return the favour.
    I'm not aware she had been. I was aware she had strongly criticised the aid budget and the approach of DfID.
    Even before she became International Development Secretary she was known for being rude/abrasive.

    She's got that awful ability you see across any work place, she thinks and acts like she's very clever when in fact she's not.

    Remember for ages, she kept on telling anyone who would listen her performance on QT on the death penalty was a success.
    Well, I am not aware of the evidence for the first point, other than taking your word for it.

    On the second, that was an infamous performance, but plenty of politicians will try and play down their slip-ups.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.

    No, no and thrice no.

    I have said repeatedly since the result what needs to happen now is the hardest possible Brexit. That is the only way to kill the virus.

    But it will be terrible, and I reserve the right to scoff at the process, the blundering idiots delivering it, the outcomes and those who advocated it, campaigned for it and voted for it.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
    Kind of like Damian Green getting his just desserts from the police?
    No, nothing like that.

    When you're unnecessarily and gratuitously rude to people don't be surprised if they return the favour.
    I'm not aware she had been. I was aware she had strongly criticised the aid budget and the approach of DfID.
    Even before she became International Development Secretary she was known for being rude/abrasive.

    She's got that awful ability you see across any work place, she thinks and acts like she's very clever when in fact she's not.

    Remember for ages, she kept on telling anyone who would listen her performance on QT on the death penalty was a success.
    Well, I am not aware of the evidence for the first point, other than taking your word for it.

    On the second, that was an infamous performance, but plenty of politicians will try and play down their slip-ups.
    I used to know her well. I would describe her as very over-confident, as opposed to rude.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BethRigby: Nothing happening tonight re Patel. Told issue is whether more info emerges in papers that PM not aware of. Pair haven’t spoken this evening

    @joncstone: ok this is your LAST last chance https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/928032855665635334
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    Scott_P said:

    so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.

    No, no and thrice no.

    I have said repeatedly since the result what needs to happen now is the hardest possible Brexit. That is the only way to kill the virus.

    But it will be terrible, and I reserve the right to scoff at the process, the blundering idiots delivering it, the outcomes and those who advocated it, campaigned for it and voted for it.
    +1
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.

    I have said repeatedly since the result what needs to happen now is the hardest possible Brexit. That is the only way to kill the virus.



    Definitely no hurling of mud, bricks and stones there. No sireee.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,806
    edited November 2017
    Also the reason Theresa May hasn't read the assessments. They don't actually exist.

    "It will take time to collate and bring together this information in a way that is accessible"
    Translation: "Bugger! We are going to have to write something."
    Scott_P said:
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    Well, I am not aware of the evidence for the first point, other than taking your word for it.

    On the second, that was an infamous performance, but plenty of politicians will try and play down their slip-ups.

    From what I have been told, there's a lot of ministers who impress their staff with their manners and ability to process all their role entails and papers they receive.

    For example Gove and Raab are well regarded by those who worked for them.

    Liam Fox and David Davis aren't.

    Boris Johnson is regarded as a very polite and affable person.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
    Priti was born in England of Ugandan Gujerati descent.

    East African Asians are generally less sectarian than their Sub-Continental cousins, in my experience.

    I suspect her Pro-Israel sympathies arise elsewhere.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045

    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
    Priti was born in England of Ugandan Gujerati descent.

    East African Asians are generally less sectarian than their Sub-Continental cousins, in my experience.

    I suspect her Pro-Israel sympathies arise elsewhere.
    Nasty piece of work is Priti. The sooner the PM sacks her the better.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    Scott_P said:

    so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.

    No, no and thrice no.

    I have said repeatedly since the result what needs to happen now is the hardest possible Brexit. That is the only way to kill the virus.

    But it will be terrible, and I reserve the right to scoff at the process, the blundering idiots delivering it, the outcomes and those who advocated it, campaigned for it and voted for it.
    I expect that in its way, Brexit will be like Labour's victory in 1945. Many people will hate it, be motivated to campaign against it, but lots of people will welcome it.
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    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
    Priti was born in England of Ugandan Gujerati descent.

    East African Asians are generally less sectarian than their Sub-Continental cousins, in my experience.

    I suspect her Pro-Israel sympathies arise elsewhere.
    She self-identifies as Hindu.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel
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    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we had an impartial civil service?
    We do, but she's reaping what she's sowed.


    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/927902641744764928
    Kind of like Damian Green getting his just desserts from the police?
    No, nothing like that.

    When you're unnecessarily and gratuitously rude to people don't be surprised if they return the favour.
    I'm not aware she had been. I was aware she had strongly criticised the aid budget and the approach of DfID.
    Even before she became International Development Secretary she was known for being rude/abrasive.

    She's got that awful ability you see across any work place, she thinks and acts like she's very clever when in fact she's not.

    Remember for ages, she kept on telling anyone who would listen her performance on QT on the death penalty was a success.
    Well, I am not aware of the evidence for the first point, other than taking your word for it.

    On the second, that was an infamous performance, but plenty of politicians will try and play down their slip-ups.
    I used to know her well. I would describe her as very over-confident, as opposed to rude.
    One person's very over-confident is another person's de haut en bas manner.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited November 2017
    EDIT: Scott_P’s got there first.
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    Priti was in the Referendum Party from 1995 to 97
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    Scott_P said:
    The Brexit lunatics lining up in support of Priti. You couldn't make this up! LOL!!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ROFL

    @paulwaugh: The bizarre thing about today's Uganda trip is a rumour that it was brought forward by a couple of weeks to give Patel easy escape from current controversy.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,753
    murali_s said:

    Scott_P said:
    The Brexit lunatics lining up in support of Priti. You couldn't make this up! LOL!!
    Let's see if they have the numbers to trigger a no confidence vote on Tezzie. Fun, fun, fun.

    Night all...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    This has aged well in two hours

    Still not their least accurate front page
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
    Priti was born in England of Ugandan Gujerati descent.

    East African Asians are generally less sectarian than their Sub-Continental cousins, in my experience.

    I suspect her Pro-Israel sympathies arise elsewhere.
    She self-identifies as Hindu.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel
    That doesn't make her a sectarian though.

    A substantial part of Leicester are East African Asians, and sectarian differences are not a striking feature of their life. Part of the reason that they adapted better to British life is that they were used to living as a minority in another country, so less assertive about cultural issues. They are also more middle class than the communities that arrived directly from India and Pakistan in the Midlands and North.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.

    No, no and thrice no.

    I have said repeatedly since the result what needs to happen now is the hardest possible Brexit. That is the only way to kill the virus.

    But it will be terrible, and I reserve the right to scoff at the process, the blundering idiots delivering it, the outcomes and those who advocated it, campaigned for it and voted for it.
    Scoffing is only effective from people who are very, very good at it, and people who are very, very good at it are much, much rarer than people who mistakenly believe they are very, very good at it. You don't learn from your mistakes, do you?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,926
    What's Patel done that's so bad?
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    The difference is that in 2011 we had a self confident PM with very high standards, today we have an awful broken PM.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/928030259554979840
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Ran a parallel foreign policy and misled the PM.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Doesn't Priti Patel have advisors? If she does, they've done a crap job.
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    DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    Is there a market up for what time Patel is fired for secretly meeting Israeli security and defence staff?

    PoliticalShinBetting.com
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited November 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MichaelLCrick: I suspected Priti Patel was doomed from this morning when her press officer twice told me he wouldn’t give a “running commentary”.
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    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    She's running a parallel foreign policy and the cherry on the parfait, repeatedly lied about it, including telling porkies to Mrs May.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scoffing is only effective

    Who do I care if it's effective?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AndyJS said:

    Doesn't Priti Patel have advisors? If she does, they've done a crap job.

    Or perhaps she is not a good listener.!

    It is hard to give advice to a know-it-all.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Oh dear! What's Nadhim on? Has he totally lost it??? Seek help brother...
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    When the election comes, I recon labour should roll with;

    "Vote labour, for strong and stable government in the national interest."
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    dixiedean said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    I really can't see the case for her going, but Boris staying.... there are much more serious consequences likely from his actions than there are from Patel's.
    His was a sin of omission...not doing the work to realise how his words would be taken.
    Hers was deliberate. It took planning. And was lied about.
    The 2 are not comparable.
    Agreed. But can we still sack him anyway.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    Nothing wrong with supporting the only real democracy in the Middle East.

    That doesn't mean supporting the government or settlers.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    edited November 2017


    Well, I am not aware of the evidence for the first point, other than taking your word for it.

    On the second, that was an infamous performance, but plenty of politicians will try and play down their slip-ups.

    From what I have been told, there's a lot of ministers who impress their staff with their manners and ability to process all their role entails and papers they receive.

    For example Gove and Raab are well regarded by those who worked for them.

    Liam Fox and David Davis aren't.

    Boris Johnson is regarded as a very polite and affable person.
    Senior civil servants tend to only have a high opinion of fellow establishment public school Oxbridge graduate Ministers like most of them are. See Yes Minister, it has very little to do with what those Ministers actually get done.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited November 2017

    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    Nothing wrong with supporting the only real democracy in the Middle East.

    That doesn't mean supporting the government or settlers.
    We should set higher standards but hey ho.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    A pariah to people who hate Jews, for sure. The Tories have probably calculated they don't stand to gain many votes from such voters.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    What a contemptible comment, verging on the anti Semitic.

    That 'pariah nation' is the only true and ancient homeland the Jewish people have after 6 million of them were murdered in the Holocaust.
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    AndyJS said:

    Doesn't Priti Patel have advisors? If she does, they've done a crap job.

    Ask Theresa May's advisors :lol:
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited November 2017
    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    What a contemptible comment, verging on the anti Semitic.

    That 'pariah nation' is the only true and ancient homeland the Jewish people have after 6 million of them were murdered in the Holocaust.
    FFS don't conflate issues! Read up on the treatment of the Palestian people.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,099
    HYUFD said:


    Well, I am not aware of the evidence for the first point, other than taking your word for it.

    On the second, that was an infamous performance, but plenty of politicians will try and play down their slip-ups.

    From what I have been told, there's a lot of ministers who impress their staff with their manners and ability to process all their role entails and papers they receive.

    For example Gove and Raab are well regarded by those who worked for them.

    Liam Fox and David Davis aren't.

    Boris Johnson is regarded as a very polite and affable person.
    Senior civil servants tend to only have a high opinion of fellow establishment public school Oxbridge graduate Ministers like most of them are. See Yes Minister, it has very little to do with what those Ministers actually get done.
    There are two reasons why civil servants might clash with a minister: it might be because they are genuinely autonomous and seek counsel from people not approved by their Permanent Secretary; or it might be because they are genuinely and dangerously stupid.

    I tend to have a pretty good opinion of David Davis. I don't dislike Boris Johnson, although I fear that Foreign Secretary is not the right role for him. I have positive views of Raab and Gove.

    But Dr Liam Fox, I'm afraid, is an idiot.
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    daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    If the Maybot doesn't fire Bojo and Priti, it will be confirmation that she is a Zombie PM. They are both completely out-of-order.

    A Corbyn-led government would know how to deal with such folk and would also have a far more appropriate foreign policy, not least in its approach to unsavoury Middle-Eastern regimes.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,904
    JRM or Gove please
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,926
    murali_s said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    What a contemptible comment, verging on the anti Semitic.

    That 'pariah nation' is the only true and ancient homeland the Jewish people have after 6 million of them were murdered in the Holocaust.
    FFS don't conflate issues!
    Well you did kind of walk into it...
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    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    edited November 2017
    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    What a contemptible comment, verging on the anti Semitic.

    That 'pariah nation' is the only true and ancient homeland the Jewish people have after 6 million of them were murdered in the Holocaust.
    He referred to a nation. I'm fed up how any reference to the Israeli government's detestable policies is immediately met with cries of anti-Semitism. Benjamin Netanyahu is a pariah, Yitzhak Rabin was a good and great man.
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    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
    Priti was born in England of Ugandan Gujerati descent.

    East African Asians are generally less sectarian than their Sub-Continental cousins, in my experience.

    I suspect her Pro-Israel sympathies arise elsewhere.
    She self-identifies as Hindu.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel
    That doesn't make her a sectarian though.

    A substantial part of Leicester are East African Asians, and sectarian differences are not a striking feature of their life. Part of the reason that they adapted better to British life is that they were used to living as a minority in another country, so less assertive about cultural issues. They are also more middle class than the communities that arrived directly from India and Pakistan in the Midlands and North.
    Priti isn't from Leicester...
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    daodao said:

    If the Maybot doesn't fire Bojo and Priti, it will be confirmation that she is a Zombie PM. They are both completely out-of-order.

    A Corbyn-led government would know how to deal with such folk and would also have a far more appropriate foreign policy, not least in its approach to unsavoury Middle-Eastern regimes.

    You mean it would welcome such regimes!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Liam Fox is crazy enough to stand again too.

    I reckon Hammond and Hunt are the ones to watch, particularly Hammond.
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    Chris_A said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    What a contemptible comment, verging on the anti Semitic.

    That 'pariah nation' is the only true and ancient homeland the Jewish people have after 6 million of them were murdered in the Holocaust.
    He referred to a nation. I'm fed up how any reference to the Israeli government's detestable policies is immediately met with cried of anti-Semitism. Benjamin Netanyahu is a pariah, Yitzhak was a good and great man.
    "Nation" does not equal Netanyahu
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Well, I am not aware of the evidence for the first point, other than taking your word for it.

    On the second, that was an infamous performance, but plenty of politicians will try and play down their slip-ups.

    From what I have been told, there's a lot of ministers who impress their staff with their manners and ability to process all their role entails and papers they receive.

    For example Gove and Raab are well regarded by those who worked for them.

    Liam Fox and David Davis aren't.

    Boris Johnson is regarded as a very polite and affable person.
    Senior civil servants tend to only have a high opinion of fellow establishment public school Oxbridge graduate Ministers like most of them are. See Yes Minister, it has very little to do with what those Ministers actually get done.
    There are two reasons why civil servants might clash with a minister: it might be because they are genuinely autonomous and seek counsel from people not approved by their Permanent Secretary; or it might be because they are genuinely and dangerously stupid.

    I tend to have a pretty good opinion of David Davis. I don't dislike Boris Johnson, although I fear that Foreign Secretary is not the right role for him. I have positive views of Raab and Gove.

    But Dr Liam Fox, I'm afraid, is an idiot.
    Davis's 57 Brexit impact assessments that are excruciatingly detailed but don't actually exist show what a muppet he is. What has he actually achieved as Brexit Sec? The Uk doesn't seem to have won a single negotiating point so far and is looking weaker and weaker.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,099
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Even the lady held in Iran blames the Iranian government not Boris.

    There is also a clear strain of anti Israeli bias in the Patel claims, dressed up in the concerns over the 'ministerial code' and of course the fact both are Brexiteers indeed drives hardline Remainers.
    I think the Israel thing is a complete red herring.

    Imagine Ms Patel had travelled to Colombia, ostensibly on holiday, but actually to meet with senior politicians. Imagine she did this without telling the Ambassador, the Foreign Secretary or the PM. She then made a number of suggestions/proposals to these politicians that ran counter to official government policy.

    She then lied about what she'd done to the FCO, the PM and the press.

    Oh yes, and she'd had some of these meetings with Party donors present.

    Running a parallel foreign policy and then lying about it. Repeatedly.

    It'd be a fireable offence in my job. It would be a fireable offence in any normal job.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
    Priti was born in England of Ugandan Gujerati descent.

    East African Asians are generally less sectarian than their Sub-Continental cousins, in my experience.

    I suspect her Pro-Israel sympathies arise elsewhere.
    She self-identifies as Hindu.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel
    That doesn't make her a sectarian though.

    A substantial part of Leicester are East African Asians, and sectarian differences are not a striking feature of their life. Part of the reason that they adapted better to British life is that they were used to living as a minority in another country, so less assertive about cultural issues. They are also more middle class than the communities that arrived directly from India and Pakistan in the Midlands and North.
    Priti isn't from Leicester...
    No, but she is from an EA Asian rather than Subcontinental background. She has never been srctarian.

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    daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    Sean_F said:

    daodao said:

    If the Maybot doesn't fire Bojo and Priti, it will be confirmation that she is a Zombie PM. They are both completely out-of-order.

    A Corbyn-led government would know how to deal with such folk and would also have a far more appropriate foreign policy, not least in its approach to unsavoury Middle-Eastern regimes.

    You mean it would welcome such regimes!
    I don't think Corbyn would cosy up to the Saudi and Zionist regimes in the way the current govt does.
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    murali_s said:

    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's Patel done that's so bad?

    Being Priti Patel for starters...

    Also clandestine meetings with officials of a rogue state.
    Tories support Israel.
    Tories support a pariah nation.
    Nothing wrong with supporting the only real democracy in the Middle East.

    That doesn't mean supporting the government or settlers.
    Well said
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,040

    Scott_P said:

    some Brexiteers are paranoid

    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean we're not out to get you...
    Well, quite, Scott.

    I'm not saying you have to like it, or support it, but one of the reasons constructive dialogue has largely broken down between Remainers and Leavers (and I accept Leavers have a part to play in this as well with their own behaviour) is because so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.
    I am a statistician who works for an insurance company. My capacity to influence events is zero. I take your point, but whether I give considered advice or the most vicious abuse the outcome will be the same.

    There is a rather weird phenomenon on PB, although I assume it is reflected elsewhere: the conceit that Brexit is tribal, that Remainers must insult it or Leavers defend it, and that this is all just a game. Excepting the wealthy, the dual-nationals and the non-British nationals who post here - and neither of us is in those categories - we are all in the same rather shitty boat and if Brexit goes down, we go down with it. I am increasingly worried that because PB has an odd socioeconomic makeup, and the May administration increasingly incompetent, we are incapable of recognising danger and incapable of coping with it should it occur.

    There's a quote (which I think is Wittgenstein) about how the world's end is accompanied by laughter from all the witty heads, who think it such a clever joke. I'm really not enjoying this.
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    I haven't been able to figure out why Priti is such a 'friend of Israel'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Israel_relations
    Ah, so a shared view of Muslims.
    I couldn't possibly comment...
    Priti was born in England of Ugandan Gujerati descent.

    East African Asians are generally less sectarian than their Sub-Continental cousins, in my experience.

    I suspect her Pro-Israel sympathies arise elsewhere.
    She self-identifies as Hindu.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel
    That doesn't make her a sectarian though.

    A substantial part of Leicester are East African Asians, and sectarian differences are not a striking feature of their life. Part of the reason that they adapted better to British life is that they were used to living as a minority in another country, so less assertive about cultural issues. They are also more middle class than the communities that arrived directly from India and Pakistan in the Midlands and North.
    Priti isn't from Leicester...
    No, but she is from an EA Asian rather than Subcontinental background. She has never been srctarian.

    Until now
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Priti's a goner:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/928017894465769472

    Amber Rudd as PM - don't make me laugh. That woman shouldn't even be an MP, let alone home secretary, given her former business career.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Scott_P said:

    so many Remainers seem intent on trying to undermine the result, rather than use their influence to shape it.

    The clever play (as I've said on here many times before) would be to try and influence the EU to re-open Dave's deal with an extra offering on free movement (in order to pursue a politically sustainable campaign for a re-remain) or to go for EEA-EFTA (which plenty of Remainers say they could live with on here) through advocating a 5-year pulling of the emergency brake, or similar.

    But, it is preferred to hurl mud, bricks and stones.

    No, no and thrice no.

    I have said repeatedly since the result what needs to happen now is the hardest possible Brexit. That is the only way to kill the virus.

    But it will be terrible, and I reserve the right to scoff at the process, the blundering idiots delivering it, the outcomes and those who advocated it, campaigned for it and voted for it.
    Agreed. I have just got back from Berlin where I talked to some young Brits living there. It felt a lot like there very much is a common European Demos to me judging by their attitudes. I think some folk on here are seriously out of touch.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    daodao said:

    Sean_F said:

    daodao said:

    If the Maybot doesn't fire Bojo and Priti, it will be confirmation that she is a Zombie PM. They are both completely out-of-order.

    A Corbyn-led government would know how to deal with such folk and would also have a far more appropriate foreign policy, not least in its approach to unsavoury Middle-Eastern regimes.

    You mean it would welcome such regimes!
    I don't think Corbyn would cosy up to the Saudi and Zionist regimes in the way the current govt does.
    He'd be pretty keen on Iran, Hamas, and the Palestinian Authority, however.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    edited November 2017
    "But if ever there was a time for a Prime Minister who is ready and able to do the job from day one, this is it. We have immediate work to do to restore political stability and economic certainty, to bring together the Party and the country, and to negotiate a sensible and orderly departure from the European Union. But more than that, we have a mission to make Britain a country that works not for the privileged and not for the few but for every one of our citizens."
This discussion has been closed.