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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » POLL ALERT: Ignore the hype. Brexit might be going badly, but

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  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    tyson said:

    Sean_F said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    At least I didn't move country for financial reasons.
    Ouch.
    Mate...I would like to see a vote where your wife was potentially cut off from all her assets and see what you felt like....


    You and your ideological group of zealots are creating such damage for this country through your bonkers crusade against the EU....well done.
    You said yourself that your principal reason for ensuring you were both domiciled here was to ensure that in due course, there would be an Inheritance Tax saving.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    SNIP
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    edited November 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest .
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is the highest earners exempting themselves from the taxes that ordinary Britons pay that are the trouble.

    Once the discontent crystalises and enough of the middle class aligns with the dispossessed that upheaval occurs.

    Historically the British elite were astute enough to reform just enough to prevent upheaval. That skill may not last forever. I speak of metaphorical tumbrils, rather than physical ones btw.
    They are not 'exempting' themselves from tax just using loopholes offered by the elected government of the day.
    Perfectly legally, as it was for the French aristocracy.

    No wonder the super rich are so supportive of the current government. They want their racket to continue.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,792
    Interesting analysis of the Mueller investigation, which points out that only seven of the sixteen prosecutors he employs were involved in the three cases thus far made public (i.e. there's a lot of other stuff going on):
    https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/11/05/mueller-has-enough-prosecutors-to-continue-walking-and-chewing-gum-while-weve-all-been-watching-manafort/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    SNIP
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism
    Load of gobbledeygook, you cannot be a liberal and a conservative at the same time, if you are really a liberal there is already a liberal party for you, the Liberal Democrats.

    You can be a conservative who is reasonably tolerant and accepting of gradual change but that is not the same as being a liberal or a libertarian.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
    The Tory brexiters are pursuing their Singapore vision for Britain.

    Here's a great article on the nature or true conservatism - the current Conservative party is a diferent beast altogether.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/03/true-conservatives-fake-ones-destroying-britian-theresa-may-real-patriots
  • Options
    Is it just me or does NFL Red Zone give one the most enormous headache?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest .
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is .
    They are not 'exempting' themselves from tax just using loopholes offered by the elected government of the day.
    Perfectly legally, as it was for the French aristocracy.

    No wonder the super rich are so supportive of the current government. They want their racket to continue.
    Well if voters feel so strongly about the issue they will elect Corbyn to end the loopholes (being able to vote was not an option open to most French peasants) but in June they did not and the loopholes legally remain.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
    The Tory brexiters are pursuing their Singapore vision for Britain.

    Here's a great article on the nature or true conservatism - the current Conservative party is a diferent beast altogether.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/03/true-conservatives-fake-ones-destroying-britian-theresa-may-real-patriots
    Are they? I see no slashing of red tape and regulation as yet and if anything spending cuts have eased a little since Brexit and Osborne left the Treasury.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
    As I have said before, Brexit is such a problem for the Tories because it destroys their USPs of managing the economy and avoiding radical change.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Whoops!

    "A Tory whip has referred himself to the police after he was accused of making an unwanted pass at former Olympic rower and Conservative activist Alex Story while dressed in a bathrobe. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/tory-whip-chris-pincherrefers-police-claim-unwanted-pass-former/
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    No deal is better than a bad deal.

    Oh, wait...

    https://twitter.com/reuters/status/927314630590042113
  • Options
    Pretty much off topic, loving every little bit of Berlin Babylon.

    Weimar Berlin
    Mysterious hijacked trains
    Shell shocked police inspectors
    Murderous criminal mastermind
    Cannibalism
    Pornography with snuff possibility
    OGPU hit squads
    Transvestite cabaret stars
    Jazz
    Great dancing

    They crammed a lot into the first two episodes.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
    As I have said before, Brexit is such a problem for the Tories because it destroys their USPs of managing the economy and avoiding radical change.
    Except it isn't as a comfortable majority of Tories voted for Brexit as they put regaining sovereignty and control of immigration first ahead of the unfettered whims of the market.

    You are again confusing classically liberal economics with conservatism, they are not automatically the same just because conservatism is not socialism either.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    tyson said:

    Sean_F said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    At least I didn't move country for financial reasons.
    Ouch.
    Mate...I would like to see a vote where your wife was potentially cut off from all her assets and see what you felt like....


    You and your ideological group of zealots are creating such damage for this country through your bonkers crusade against the EU....well done.
    Given that you were living in Italy with your Italian wife and her family, why didn’t you transfer your UK assets to Italy?

    I appreciate that this is a personal question so if you don’t wish to answer, fair enough.

    Moving to be with your assets rather than with your family seems, well, some might say that it is an odd choice of priorities. And then you have the nerve to criticise others for their financial choices and what they choose to spend their money on (cruises and weekend breaks).
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Whoops!

    "A Tory whip has referred himself to the police after he was accused of making an unwanted pass at former Olympic rower and Conservative activist Alex Story while dressed in a bathrobe. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/tory-whip-chris-pincherrefers-police-claim-unwanted-pass-former/

    It happened 16 years ago.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:



    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.

    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
    As I have said before, Brexit is such a problem for the Tories because it destroys their USPs of managing the economy and avoiding radical change.
    Except it isn't as a comfortable majority of Tories voted for Brexit as they put regaining sovereignty and control of immigration first ahead of the unfettered whims of the market.

    You are again confusing classically liberal economics with conservatism, they are not automatically the same just because conservatism is not socialism either.
    With respect, I think you're confusing conservatism with a kind of neo-feudalism.

    In fairness you're not alone. It's the ideology of the tory client vote;

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/19/pay-social-care-britain-land-of-minor-aristocrats-tory-manifesto-plan
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest .
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is .
    They are not 'exempting' themselves from tax just using loopholes offered by the elected government of the day.
    Perfectly legally, as it was for the French aristocracy.

    No wonder the super rich are so supportive of the current government. They want their racket to continue.
    Well if voters feel so strongly about the issue they will elect Corbyn to end the loopholes (being able to vote was not an option open to most French peasants) but in June they did not and the loopholes legally remain.
    The anger of the squeezed middle who do pay their taxes towards the new super rich aristocracy who manage legally to dodge paying their share should not be underestimated.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    edited November 2017
    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:



    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.

    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
    As I have said before, Brexit is such a problem for the Tories because it destroys their USPs of managing the economy and avoiding radical change.
    Except it isn't as a comfortable majority of Tories voted for Brexit as they put regaining sovereignty and control of immigration first ahead of the unfettered whims of the market.

    You are again confusing classically liberal economics with conservatism, they are not automatically the same just because conservatism is not socialism either.
    With respect, I think you're confusing conservatism with a kind of neo-feudalism.

    In fairness, you're not alone. It's the ideology of the tory client vote;

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/19/pay-social-care-britain-land-of-minor-aristocrats-tory-manifesto-plan
    No. Conservatism as defined in the OED

    ' 1 Commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation

    2 The holding of political views that favour free enterprise, private ownership, and socially
    conservative ideas'

    Indeed until the rise of the Labour Party in the early 20th century after the working classes got the vote, the Conservative Party's main opponent was the Liberal Party (with the Tories, the Conservative Party's predecessor opposed by the Liberal Party predecessor, the Whigs until the mid 19th century).

    The Tories were the party of monarchy, the Church of England and the Landed Gentry and occasionally protectionism, the Whigs the party of the merchants and free trade, industrialists and non conformists.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2017
    Y0kel said:

    Now everyone seems to have noticed that Russia is involved in very active attempts to cause as much conflict and chaos within Western democracies, suddenly they may be responsible for the Brexit result?

    I remember how people thought that the view that we needed to face down Putin's regime with immense firmness was essentially provocative

    Now they get it but only in the narrow confines of their own political bias because it suits.

    Yes, have no doubts things to come will show how people within UKIP aligned camp (no names but Ive been on about it for months) have some kind of associations with Moscow but there is no evidence that the Russian shadow merchants shifted opinion or votes. Maybe more will emerge but there is no case on that account right now.

    Trumpton

    George Papadopoulos was in Greece at the same time as Putin and his coterie were there. Luck maybe. Maybe not.

    Who did George meet in London by the way?

    As a note downthread. Mike Flynn has been indicted for ages, the news is that charges may be about to be brought.

    I don't think one can say Russia is responsible for Trump or Brexit, even if they influenced people. At the end of the day we have to trust electors to make their own choice as to how to vote at elections.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
    Thatcher was arguably more a Gladstonian Liberal than a traditional Conservative and Tory but if it was all about the market then the Tories would not be pursuing Brexit as the market ie the City, opposes it.
    The Tory brexiters are pursuing their Singapore vision for Britain.

    Here's a great article on the nature or true conservatism - the current Conservative party is a diferent beast altogether.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/03/true-conservatives-fake-ones-destroying-britian-theresa-may-real-patriots
    The current government is hardly slashing and burning the State. A government which cared exclusively about the interests of big business, would not be pursuing Brexit, either.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    AndyJS said:

    Whoops!

    "A Tory whip has referred himself to the police after he was accused of making an unwanted pass at former Olympic rower and Conservative activist Alex Story while dressed in a bathrobe. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/tory-whip-chris-pincherrefers-police-claim-unwanted-pass-former/

    It happened 16 years ago.
    Just mentioning it as it seemed to have slipped by the normally steely-eyed PB community.

    The Independent also mentions an incident involving him and a Labour MP
  • Options

    AndyJS said:

    Whoops!

    "A Tory whip has referred himself to the police after he was accused of making an unwanted pass at former Olympic rower and Conservative activist Alex Story while dressed in a bathrobe. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/tory-whip-chris-pincherrefers-police-claim-unwanted-pass-former/

    It happened 16 years ago.
    Just mentioning it as it seemed to have slipped by the normally steely-eyed PB community.

    The Independent also mentions an incident involving him and a Labour MP
    Both were mentioned yesterday and earlier today.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950

    Pretty much off topic, loving every little bit of Berlin Babylon.

    Weimar Berlin
    Mysterious hijacked trains
    Shell shocked police inspectors
    Murderous criminal mastermind
    Cannibalism
    Pornography with snuff possibility
    OGPU hit squads
    Transvestite cabaret stars
    Jazz
    Great dancing

    They crammed a lot into the first two episodes.

    "The Orville" is arriving on Fox UK on Dec 14th. So I can stop hunting YouTube for uploaded copies.

    https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/925047402104360960
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest .
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is .
    They are not 'exempting' themselves from tax just using loopholes offered by the elected government of the day.
    Perfectly legally, as it was for the French aristocracy.

    No wonder the super rich are so supportive of the current government. They want their racket to continue.
    Well if voters feel soremain.
    The anger of the squeezed middle who do pay their taxes towards the new super rich aristocracy who manage legally to dodge paying their share should not be underestimated.
    They don't 'dodge' paying their taxes they just use loopholes to legally reduce them where they can.

    Indeed the top 3000 earners pay more tax than the bottom 9 million.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11233686/How-top-3000-earners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950
    HYUFD said:



    No. Conservatism as defined in the OED

    ' 1 Commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation

    2 The holding of political views that favour free enterprise, private ownership, and socially
    conservative ideas'

    Indeed until the rise of the Labour Party in the early 20th century after the working classes got the vote, the Conservative Party's main opponent was the Liberal Party (with the Tories, the Conservative Party's predecessor opposed by the Liberal Party predecessor, the Whigs until the mid 19th century).

    The Tories were the party of monarchy, the Church of England and the Landed Gentry and occasionally protectionism, the Whigs the party of the merchants and free trade, industrialists and non conformists.

    I defer to your definition of conservatism (at least as it is practiced in Britain) but the British Conservative party is less hidebound than that. Since the Libs fell apart in the 1920's British politics has been a battle between the lower working class and the upper middle class, with the battleground being the border between the upper working class and the lower middle class. If Labour capture the lower middle class it wins, if Conservatives capture the upper working class it wins, and so on. The Conservative party will adopt positions designed to effect this capture, then retrofit its principles to match. This is how it could adopt as leaders such a widely disparate group as Macmillan, Heath, Thatcher, Cameron and May.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,359
    As with sexual harassment, the claim that everyone does tax avoidance is mistaken. It's not hard to specify that investments should not be made in offshore funds - I did it when I had savings as an MP, and I was on the Parliamentary pension fund committee which had the same policy. I don't suppose it occurred to the Queen, but it's a perfectly reasonable instruction to give.

    The scale of avoidance is a real problem for all governments (and an appropriate target for populist wrath), as that noted leftie Osborne recognised. Britain's position is notably hypocritical, though - Chancellors boast of taking anti-avoidance measures (we have eliminated £50 billion of avoidance", the Treasury claimed today), while fostering a City culture only too pleased to assist avoidance. If we were serious we could crack down on all the British territories and dependencies - if they wish to continue to be British, ripping us off by hosting cut-rate pseudo-offices shouldn't be part of the deal.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    edited November 2017
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:



    No. Conservatism as defined in the OED

    ' 1 Commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation

    2 The holding of political views that favour free enterprise, private ownership, and socially
    conservative ideas'

    Indeed until the rise of the Labour Party in the early 20th century after the working classes got the vote, the Conservative Party's main opponent was the Liberal Party (with the Tories, the Conservative Party's predecessor opposed by the Liberal Party predecessor, the Whigs until the mid 19th century).

    The Tories were the party of monarchy, the Church of England and the Landed Gentry and occasionally protectionism, the Whigs the party of the merchants and free trade, industrialists and non conformists.

    I defer to your definition of conservatism (at least as it is practiced in Britain) but the British Conservative party is less hidebound than that. Since the Libs fell apart in the 1920's British politics has been a battle between the lower working class and the upper middle class, with the battleground being the border between the upper working class and the lower middle class. If Labour capture the lower middle class it wins, if Conservatives capture the upper working class it wins, and so on. The Conservative party will adopt positions designed to effect this capture, then retrofit its principles to match. This is how it could adopt as leaders such a widely disparate group as Macmillan, Heath, Thatcher, Cameron and May.
    Largely true but of course while the main battle is between the Tories and Labour, the heirs to the Whigs and the Liberal Party still very much exist in the form of the LDs, still the third biggest party in voteshare across the UK in June and also in seats at Westminster too, outside of Scotland. The LD commitment to the EU and the single market and opposition to Brexit is very much in their predecessors vein as was the tough measures they took on spending to cut the deficit when part of the Coalition.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    AndyJS said:

    Whoops!

    "A Tory whip has referred himself to the police after he was accused of making an unwanted pass at former Olympic rower and Conservative activist Alex Story while dressed in a bathrobe. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/tory-whip-chris-pincherrefers-police-claim-unwanted-pass-former/

    It happened 16 years ago.
    Just mentioning it as it seemed to have slipped by the normally steely-eyed PB community.

    The Independent also mentions an incident involving him and a Labour MP
    Both were mentioned yesterday and earlier today.
    Thanks and good night!
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,359
    viewcode said:

    Pretty much off topic, loving every little bit of Berlin Babylon.

    Weimar Berlin
    Mysterious hijacked trains
    Shell shocked police inspectors
    Murderous criminal mastermind
    Cannibalism
    Pornography with snuff possibility
    OGPU hit squads
    Transvestite cabaret stars
    Jazz
    Great dancing

    They crammed a lot into the first two episodes.

    "The Orville" is arriving on Fox UK on Dec 14th. So I can stop hunting YouTube for uploaded copies.

    https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/925047402104360960
    I've signed up for Amazon Prime and have been exploring US options. Series 1 of Casual was good fun, with some clever twists as a brother, sister and daughter struggle to keep afloat and perhaps find love in a freewheeling sexual culture (Series 2 is less good so far - embarassing raher than amusing). On a more serious note, "Z -The Beginning of Everything" (Zelda Fitzgerald growing up during WW1) is stylish and convincing so far.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    edited November 2017
    viewcode said:

    Pretty much off topic, loving every little bit of Berlin Babylon.

    Weimar Berlin
    Mysterious hijacked trains
    Shell shocked police inspectors
    Murderous criminal mastermind
    Cannibalism
    Pornography with snuff possibility
    OGPU hit squads
    Transvestite cabaret stars
    Jazz
    Great dancing

    They crammed a lot into the first two episodes.

    "The Orville" is arriving on Fox UK on Dec 14th. So I can stop hunting YouTube for uploaded copies.

    https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/925047402104360960
    Saw a trailer for it which seemed ok. Hoping for some kind of melange of Family Guy & Galaxy Quest, both of which I like.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:



    No. Conservatism as defined in the OED

    ' 1 Commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation

    2 The holding of political views that favour free enterprise, private ownership, and socially
    conservative ideas'

    Indeed until the rise of the Labour Party in the early 20th century after the working classes got the vote, the Conservative Party's main opponent was the Liberal Party (with the Tories, the Conservative Party's predecessor opposed by the Liberal Party predecessor, the Whigs until the mid 19th century).

    The Tories were the party of monarchy, the Church of England and the Landed Gentry and occasionally protectionism, the Whigs the party of the merchants and free trade, industrialists and non conformists.

    I defer to your definition of conservatism (at least as it is practiced in Britain) but the British Conservative party is less hidebound than that. Since the Libs fell apart in the 1920's British politics has been a battle between the lower working class and the upper middle class, with the battleground being the border between the upper working class and the lower middle class. If Labour capture the lower middle class it wins, if Conservatives capture the upper working class it wins, and so on. The Conservative party will adopt positions designed to effect this capture, then retrofit its principles to match. This is how it could adopt as leaders such a widely disparate group as Macmillan, Heath, Thatcher, Cameron and May.
    Largely true but of course while the main battle is between the Tories and Labour, the heirs to the Whigs and the Liberal Party still very much exist in the form of the LDs, still the third biggest party in voteshare across the UK in June and also in seats at Westminster too, outside of Scotland. The LD commitment to the EU and the single market and opposition to Brexit is very much in their predecessors vein as was the tough measures they took on spending to cut the deficit when part of the Coalition.
    Indeed
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest .
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is .
    They are not 'exempting' themselves from tax just using loopholes offered by the elected government of the day.
    Perfectly legally, as it was for the French aristocracy.

    No wonder the super rich are so supportive of the current government. They want their racket to continue.
    Well if voters feel soremain.
    The anger of the squeezed middle who do pay their taxes towards the new super rich aristocracy who manage legally to dodge paying their share should not be underestimated.
    They don't 'dodge' paying their taxes they just use loopholes to legally reduce them where they can.

    Indeed the top 3000 earners pay more tax than the bottom 9 million.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11233686/How-top-3000-earners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html
    And if they paid taxes without "avoidance" how much better would the Exchequer be?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950

    viewcode said:

    Pretty much off topic, loving every little bit of Berlin Babylon.

    Weimar Berlin
    Mysterious hijacked trains
    Shell shocked police inspectors
    Murderous criminal mastermind
    Cannibalism
    Pornography with snuff possibility
    OGPU hit squads
    Transvestite cabaret stars
    Jazz
    Great dancing

    They crammed a lot into the first two episodes.

    "The Orville" is arriving on Fox UK on Dec 14th. So I can stop hunting YouTube for uploaded copies.

    https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/925047402104360960
    Saw a trailer for it which seemed ok. Hoping for some kind of melange of Family Guy & Galaxy Quest, both of which I like.
    Let's put it this way. It's so close to a Star Trek:TNG remake it's surprising CBS haven't sued. If you can imagine a sci-fi version of MASH, it's like that. The early years of MASH at least, when the jokes were crude and Frank Burns was still in it.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    BBC4 now, Gulag.

    Plain horrible but plain important.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950

    viewcode said:

    Pretty much off topic, loving every little bit of Berlin Babylon.

    Weimar Berlin
    Mysterious hijacked trains
    Shell shocked police inspectors
    Murderous criminal mastermind
    Cannibalism
    Pornography with snuff possibility
    OGPU hit squads
    Transvestite cabaret stars
    Jazz
    Great dancing

    They crammed a lot into the first two episodes.

    "The Orville" is arriving on Fox UK on Dec 14th. So I can stop hunting YouTube for uploaded copies.

    https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/925047402104360960
    I've signed up for Amazon Prime and have been exploring US options. Series 1 of Casual was good fun, with some clever twists as a brother, sister and daughter struggle to keep afloat and perhaps find love in a freewheeling sexual culture (Series 2 is less good so far - embarassing raher than amusing). On a more serious note, "Z -The Beginning of Everything" (Zelda Fitzgerald growing up during WW1) is stylish and convincing so far.
    How is the latter turning out? Christina Ricci is in that awkward phase of a Hollywood actress's career: a lot of talent, no longer young, roles becoming sparse, and I hope she finds some way forward. The trailers looked good and I'd like to think it was at least a critical success.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Y0kel said:

    BBC4 now, Gulag.

    Plain horrible but plain important.

    Yes, very good. Reminds me of Shoah. I shall record the remainder.

    Some interesting other programmes on BBC4 on Russia this week too.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Whoops!

    "A Tory whip has referred himself to the police after he was accused of making an unwanted pass at former Olympic rower and Conservative activist Alex Story while dressed in a bathrobe. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/tory-whip-chris-pincherrefers-police-claim-unwanted-pass-former/

    It happened 16 years ago.
    And the “victim” described it as “embarrassing” rather than threatening (a 6’ 4” rower vs a rather diminutive podgy chap) - unless it’s Bob Quick I suspect they’ll say “nothing to see here”.....
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest .
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is .
    They are not 'exempting' themselves from tax just using loopholes offered by the elected government of the day.
    Perfectly legally, as it was for the French aristocracy.

    No wonder the super rich are so supportive of the current government. They want their racket to continue.
    Well if voters feel so strongly about the issue they will elect Corbyn to end the loopholes (being able to vote was not an option open to most French peasants) but in June they did not and the loopholes legally remain.
    The anger of the squeezed middle who do pay their taxes towards the new super rich aristocracy who manage legally to dodge paying their share should not be underestimated.
    As a historian once observed of the French Revolution - it happened not because peasants were starving (they saw that as part of their lot) but because lawyers and teachers were starving...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    On tax, can we abolish PAYE so everyone can decide whether or not to use tax planning measures ?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    Pulpstar said:

    On tax, can we abolish PAYE so everyone can decide whether or not to use tax planning measures ?

    McDonnell is planning a Pay As You Emigrate system.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Pulpstar said:

    On tax, can we abolish PAYE so everyone can decide whether or not to use tax planning measures ?

    Would simplify payroll for thousands of small and medium businesses too :)
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    On tax, can we abolish PAYE so everyone can decide whether or not to use tax planning measures ?

    McDonnell is planning a Pay As You Emigrate system.
    Talking of tax exiles, the tory party's "just pretend to pay, wink, wink, no one will know" deal with Ashcroft ain't looking too smart;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052241/Lord-Ashcroft-hides-toilet-asked-tax.html
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408

    Новый поток

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    viewcode said:

    Pretty much off topic, loving every little bit of Berlin Babylon.

    Weimar Berlin
    Mysterious hijacked trains
    Shell shocked police inspectors
    Murderous criminal mastermind
    Cannibalism
    Pornography with snuff possibility
    OGPU hit squads
    Transvestite cabaret stars
    Jazz
    Great dancing

    They crammed a lot into the first two episodes.

    "The Orville" is arriving on Fox UK on Dec 14th. So I can stop hunting YouTube for uploaded copies.

    https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/925047402104360960
    Saw a trailer for it which seemed ok. Hoping for some kind of melange of Family Guy & Galaxy Quest, both of which I like.
    It's not, its a homage to classic Star Trek not a parody.
  • Options
    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044

    @Stevef "Polls whatever they show are irrelevant. Polls do not decide policy " - It should beggar belief that you've posted that on a front rank political discussion site. The idea that politicians don't change policy in response to shifts in public opinion is so demonstrably untrue as to not need rebutting.

    " would lead to people being driven into the arms of extremists, and I fear, into violence." - This is crypto facistic nonsense which would be laughable if it weren't mildly disturbing. "

    You think it is fascist to believe in democracy and warn of the dangers of people following more extreme remedies if they become disillusioned with democracy? Physician heal thyself.
This discussion has been closed.