Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » POLL ALERT: Ignore the hype. Brexit might be going badly, but

1235

Comments

  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,086
    Y0kel said:

    There are some heavy goings on in Saudi Arabia over the 24 hours, large number of arrests and detentions on basis of 'corruption' amongst Royal family types and now it appears a plane carrying one of the princes plus officials has crashed.

    Maybe pure coincidence but maybe not.

    One expert reckons the country is at its most volatile now as at any other time over the last 40 to 50 years.

    Just one little sub text in the Paradise Papers. Wilbur Ross, long suspected of having somewhat too close ties to some Russian concerns may have been exposed. He is the current US Commerce Secretary.

    Where can I read more about this?
  • Options
    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
  • Options
    As someone tweeted below, are you sure that's the dog's ear?
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited November 2017

    Y0kel said:

    There are some heavy goings on in Saudi Arabia over the 24 hours, large number of arrests and detentions on basis of 'corruption' amongst Royal family types and now it appears a plane carrying one of the princes plus officials has crashed.

    Maybe pure coincidence but maybe not.

    One expert reckons the country is at its most volatile now as at any other time over the last 40 to 50 years.

    Just one little sub text in the Paradise Papers. Wilbur Ross, long suspected of having somewhat too close ties to some Russian concerns may have been exposed. He is the current US Commerce Secretary.

    Where can I read more about this?
    All over the newswires, its appears the Crown Prince Mohammad is doing a Night of the Long Knives. You'll find overview piece at the Guardian of the arrests.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

    I fully accept that I'm a hypocrite for using them, for me it's a convenience rather than cost thing. But the fact is it's these egregious examples - 15m on 7bn FFS! - that are the problem. Not Lord Ashcroft and whether Her Majesty has a dodgy flat in Panama.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

    I fully accept that I'm a hypocrite for using them, for me it's a convenience rather than cost thing. But the fact is it's these egregious examples - 15m on 7bn FFS! - that are the problem. Not Lord Ashcroft and whether Her Majesty has a dodgy flat in Panama.
    Clearly the individual incentives for consumers are always going to push us to buying cheap products even if it's morally dubious. That's why it's a good idea to have a government who regulates for the good of society as a whole; yeah, we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax, if this kind of avoidance can be clamped down on.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

    I fully accept that I'm a hypocrite for using them, for me it's a convenience rather than cost thing. But the fact is it's these egregious examples - 15m on 7bn FFS! - that are the problem. Not Lord Ashcroft and whether Her Majesty has a dodgy flat in Panama.
    Clearly the individual incentives for consumers are always going to push us to buying cheap products even if it's morally dubious. That's why it's a good idea to have a government who regulates for the good of society as a whole; yeah, we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax, if this kind of avoidance can be clamped down on.

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

  • Options
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

    I fully accept that I'm a hypocrite for using them, for me it's a convenience rather than cost thing. But the fact is it's these egregious examples - 15m on 7bn FFS! - that are the problem. Not Lord Ashcroft and whether Her Majesty has a dodgy flat in Panama.
    I think they are all a problem but dealing with it needs International co-operation as the BBC have just said and frankly I have little confidence in that succeeding anymore than Corbyn could get the agreement needed either
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,894

    As someone tweeted below, are you sure that's the dog's ear?
    Dogs rear
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2017
    Just got back from a fireworks display in Tamworth, switched on Sky News, and the local MP's face is on the channel. Interesting times.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336
    AndyJS said:

    Just got back from a fireworks display in Tamworth, switched on Sky News, and the local MP's face is on the channel. Interesting times.

    From all I hear in Cannock, he wouldn't be much missed should he leave Parliament.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    Nothing on tax avoidance over at www.ashcrofthome.com www.conservativehome.com

    Yet.

    The columnists/commentators know the rules.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    I might have missed it but this blogpost over on Martin Baxter's site is excellent on the YouGov regression model (and his own home-brewed version):
    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/pseph_logreg.html
  • Options
    Pong said:

    Nothing on tax avoidance over at www.ashcrofthome.com www.conservativehome.com

    Yet.

    No sympathy for him and I am a conservative party member. Hope he has to pay up
  • Options
    The number of conservative MP's being investigated is growing daily.

    I hope the party is lining up really good candidates for possible by elections, each one being female and one called Ruth would be fine
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,894
    AndyJS said:

    Just got back from a fireworks display in Tamworth, switched on Sky News, and the local MP's face is on the channel. Interesting times.

    Literally a shirt lifter.

    You couldn't make it up

    Hope the MP for Sheffield Hallam keeps stum.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336

    AndyJS said:

    Just got back from a fireworks display in Tamworth, switched on Sky News, and the local MP's face is on the channel. Interesting times.

    Literally a shirt lifter.

    You couldn't make it up

    Hope the MP for Sheffield Hallam keeps stum.
    Actually I believe it was a bath robe.
  • Options

    AndyJS said:

    Just got back from a fireworks display in Tamworth, switched on Sky News, and the local MP's face is on the channel. Interesting times.

    Literally a shirt lifter.

    You couldn't make it up

    Hope the MP for Sheffield Hallam keeps stum.
    I think it is becoming increasingly likely all parties will be facing by elections in 2018 though I am not going to speculate how many and where.

    Hope your week away from your good lady goes quickly and you can be together again soon.

    All the best
  • Options
    If you use Amazon regularly you can mitigate things by book marking an Affinity link for a charity you like. Click through from that and 5% to 8% of your pre VAT spend will go to your Charity. If it's convenient use the Local Collect option to have parcel deliveries made to your local Post Office for collection. This generates a bit of revenue for a public service.

    One other mitigating tactic for physical book purchases is to check out the second hand options it will prompt you with. These are very often from independent and/or charity booksellers using the Marketplace. Once you get past the books not being pristine you'll not notice the difference with new ones.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950
    Freggles said:

    I might have missed it but this blogpost over on Martin Baxter's site is excellent on the YouGov regression model (and his own home-brewed version):
    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/pseph_logreg.html

    Thank you. I already know about multi-level regression and post-stratification, known on the street as "mister p"[1]. But thank you for posting it.

    [1] viewcode: keeping it real, on the streets... :-)
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486


    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    Many average consumers could have jobs working at local firms competing with the multinational giants who are currently being undercut.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    If you use Amazon regularly you can mitigate things by book marking an Affinity link for a charity you like. Click through from that and 5% to 8% of your pre VAT spend will go to your Charity. If it's convenient use the Local Collect option to have parcel deliveries made to your local Post Office for collection. This generates a bit of revenue for a public service.

    One other mitigating tactic for physical book purchases is to check out the second hand options it will prompt you with. These are very often from independent and/or charity booksellers using the Marketplace. Once you get past the books not being pristine you'll not notice the difference with new ones.

    Ok your first suggestion, it seems as though that doesn’t harm Amazon one bit. It only harms the exchequer.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2017

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

    I fully accept that I'm a hypocrite for using them, for me it's a convenience rather than cost thing. But the fact is it's these egregious examples - 15m on 7bn FFS! - that are the problem. Not Lord Ashcroft and whether Her Majesty has a dodgy flat in Panama.
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Just seen the Strictly results show. Well, her I was think the Fylnn indictment was going to be the big news of the day!
  • Options

    If you use Amazon regularly you can mitigate things by book marking an Affinity link for a charity you like. Click through from that and 5% to 8% of your pre VAT spend will go to your Charity. If it's convenient use the Local Collect option to have parcel deliveries made to your local Post Office for collection. This generates a bit of revenue for a public service.

    One other mitigating tactic for physical book purchases is to check out the second hand options it will prompt you with. These are very often from independent and/or charity booksellers using the Marketplace. Once you get past the books not being pristine you'll not notice the difference with new ones.

    To be honest we rarely buy books. The local collection points are a good idea but in practice most of our neighbours use Amazon and we all receive parcels as an alternative if someone is out

    As far a charity donations are concerned we only support local charities apart from the RNLI which we support through our lifeboat station and their shop
  • Options
    RobD said:

    If you use Amazon regularly you can mitigate things by book marking an Affinity link for a charity you like. Click through from that and 5% to 8% of your pre VAT spend will go to your Charity. If it's convenient use the Local Collect option to have parcel deliveries made to your local Post Office for collection. This generates a bit of revenue for a public service.

    One other mitigating tactic for physical book purchases is to check out the second hand options it will prompt you with. These are very often from independent and/or charity booksellers using the Marketplace. Once you get past the books not being pristine you'll not notice the difference with new ones.

    Ok your first suggestion, it seems as though that doesn’t harm Amazon one bit. It only harms the exchequer.
    No.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    viewcode said:

    Freggles said:

    I might have missed it but this blogpost over on Martin Baxter's site is excellent on the YouGov regression model (and his own home-brewed version):
    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/pseph_logreg.html

    Thank you. I already know about multi-level regression and post-stratification, known on the street as "mister p"[1]. But thank you for posting it.

    [1] viewcode: keeping it real, on the streets... :-)
    Is Mr P related to Mr F?

    http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/arresteddevelopment/images/5/54/2x16_Meat_the_Veals_(40).png/revision/latest?cb=20130202002555
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    BBC panorama writeup;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41877924

    50% of offshore wealth belongs to 0.01% of households?

    Time for the 99.99% to default, methinks.
  • Options

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

    I fully accept that I'm a hypocrite for using them, for me it's a convenience rather than cost thing. But the fact is it's these egregious examples - 15m on 7bn FFS! - that are the problem. Not Lord Ashcroft and whether Her Majesty has a dodgy flat in Panama.
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    </blockquote

    Are you Madame Defarge
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    Just seen the Strictly results show. Well, her I was think the Fylnn indictment was going to be the big news of the day!

    Told you Shirley Ballas is a shit (head) judge.

    Bring back Len Goodman.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    RobD said:

    If you use Amazon regularly you can mitigate things by book marking an Affinity link for a charity you like. Click through from that and 5% to 8% of your pre VAT spend will go to your Charity. If it's convenient use the Local Collect option to have parcel deliveries made to your local Post Office for collection. This generates a bit of revenue for a public service.

    One other mitigating tactic for physical book purchases is to check out the second hand options it will prompt you with. These are very often from independent and/or charity booksellers using the Marketplace. Once you get past the books not being pristine you'll not notice the difference with new ones.

    Ok your first suggestion, it seems as though that doesn’t harm Amazon one bit. It only harms the exchequer.
    No.
    My mistake, I read that as 8% of the VAT!
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Just seen the Strictly results show. Well, her I was think the Fylnn indictment was going to be the big news of the day!

    Told you Shirley Ballas is a shit (head) judge.

    Bring back Len Goodman.
    It was the correct decision and our know it.

    The eliminated couple improved massively over their first dance but it was still lacking.

    Craig's face was in agony. Bruno looked like death warmed over
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

    I fully accept that I'm a hypocrite for using them, for me it's a convenience rather than cost thing. But the fact is it's these egregious examples - 15m on 7bn FFS! - that are the problem. Not Lord Ashcroft and whether Her Majesty has a dodgy flat in Panama.
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    When societies become sufficiently unequal, and people think that they are being cheated, then the seed is set for revolution. France 1789, Russia 1917, Iran 1979.

    Like most, I shop on Amazon, but it doesn't mean that I like the way that they operate.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950
    Freggles said:

    viewcode said:

    Freggles said:

    I might have missed it but this blogpost over on Martin Baxter's site is excellent on the YouGov regression model (and his own home-brewed version):
    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/pseph_logreg.html

    Thank you. I already know about multi-level regression and post-stratification, known on the street as "mister p"[1]. But thank you for posting it.

    [1] viewcode: keeping it real, on the streets... :-)
    Is Mr P related to Mr F?

    http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/arresteddevelopment/images/5/54/2x16_Meat_the_Veals_(40).png/revision/latest?cb=20130202002555
    No. Although I want Mr Flibble to be involved...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOE7qTAK87o
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    In other news Alli was my Captain.

    Salah was my vice captain, ka-ching.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The French nobility were using legitimate loopholes too. It didn't save them.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    edited November 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They.
    The French nobility were using legitimate loopholes too. It didn't save them.
    Utter rubbish, for starters virtually nobody had the vote in pre revolutionary France, there was no welfare state, no minimum wage and no health service, just a bit of charity from the Church.

    Loopholes are also available to everyone if they want to use them, even if obviously they are more beneficial the more assets you have.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    Oh dear. Poor Nicholas Witchell looks like he hasn't slept....
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774
    edited November 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    The lowest earners do though still pay VAT, and being low earners pretty much all of their income is spent (rather than saved). So let us not pretend that low earners pay no tax.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited November 2017
    I see that the Guardian has once again gone bonkers. The lead story appears to be that the Duchy of Lancaster indirectly made a tiny investment in a chain of wine merchants, which subsequently went bust. Apparently we are supposed to think that this was a scandal, rather than just a poor investment.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Paradise Papers brings to mind this 1979 pop song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXW8OS0SSnc
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    The lowest earners do though still pay VAT though, and being low earners pretty much all of their income is spent (rather than saved). So let us not pretend that low earners pay no tax.
    So, everyone else pays income tax and VAT. If they save more they pay less VAT.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited November 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.

    Indeed my wife and I were only saying today that no matter what we see in the high street we always check Amazon first and in most cases Amazon are much cheaper and deliver it to your door

    They also have very good customer service.

    The higine
    It's a gr

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The French nobility were using legitimate loopholes too. It didn't save them.
    I don't know that comparing what might be an unreasonable situation now literally with pre-revolutionary French nobility really helps - people get angry at the rich and privileged, but we know that they are not literally the same as pre-revolution french nobility.

    Since that is a ludicrous comparison, it undermines legitimate concerns, and comparing to other historical revolutions only makes other resist reasonable moves, since people hoping for such comparison clearly want to do a lot more than merely fix specific problems with tax or whatever, they want to destroy our entire systems, which however flawed are not Russia in 1917 either.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    Scott_P said:
    Just as long as one of them is Boris Johnson Idon't care about the rest
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    This really has to be a fake poll Kieran. Apart from the handful of Brexit obsessives on this site and Liam Fox, who the fuck remotely, in her right mind, thinks Brexit was/is/ever could be in any way, shape or form a good idea? You have to be quite fucking bonkers to think so.
  • Options

    I see that the Guardian has once again gone bonkers. The lead story appears to be that the Duchy of Lancaster indirectly made a tiny investment in a chain of wine merchants, which subsequently went bust. Apparently we are supposed to think that this was a scandal, rather than just a poor investment.

    Don’t forget the £3k invested in bright house.....they actually led with that in the initial story.



  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:


    Loopholes are also available to everyone if they want to use them, even if obviously they are more beneficial the more assets you have.

    In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:


    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    The lowest earners do though still pay VAT though, and being low earners pretty much all of their income is spent (rather than saved). So let us not pretend that low earners pay no tax.
    So, everyone else pays income tax and VAT. If they save more they pay less VAT.
    Ah, so your advice to low earners is 'save more'? Sounds like you've been taking lessons from Marie Antoinette!
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited November 2017

    I see that the Guardian has once again gone bonkers. The lead story appears to be that the Duchy of Lancaster indirectly made a tiny investment in a chain of wine merchants, which subsequently went bust. Apparently we are supposed to think that this was a scandal, rather than just a poor investment.

    Don’t forget the £3k invested in bright house.....they actually led with that in the initial story.
    £3K! I was falling asleep before I got that far.
  • Options

    I see that the Guardian has once again gone bonkers. The lead story appears to be that the Duchy of Lancaster indirectly made a tiny investment in a chain of wine merchants, which subsequently went bust. Apparently we are supposed to think that this was a scandal, rather than just a poor investment.

    Don’t forget the £3k invested in bright house.....they actually led with that in the initial story.
    £3K! I was falling asleep before I got that far.
    Even the other people mentioned are a bit, "his second cousin's wife's friend's daughter"
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited November 2017

    I see that the Guardian has once again gone bonkers. The lead story appears to be that the Duchy of Lancaster indirectly made a tiny investment in a chain of wine merchants, which subsequently went bust. Apparently we are supposed to think that this was a scandal, rather than just a poor investment.

    Don’t forget the £3k invested in bright house.....they actually led with that in the initial story.
    £3K! I was falling asleep before I got that far.
    £500m overall fund, £10m invested in this particular fund, which the guardian admits isn’t tax dodging and they lead with queen has £3k invested in scumbag (in their opinion) bright house. Rounding error is still overstating and apparently a scandal the paper pushers didn’t know they had this massive indirect investment.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited November 2017
    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    @Fox.....why do you shop on Amazon if you do not like the way they operate?

    I went to help clear a scout field today and ended up spending most of the morning picking up frogs and guiding them to safety. People couldn't even be bothered spending the time to be careful with their spades despite knowing that they were disturbing wildlife, and this is liberal Norwich.

    What is it about human beings that we are such useless, nihilistic, degenerate fuckwits that don't really think through the consequences of our actions?
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    Never mind the Whitehall farce . . .

    Having turned themselves in to the Belgian authorities in connection with Spain’s extradition request, the Catalan Five have insisted on a Flemish judge and for the court proceedings to be in Dutch, for which they need a translator. They could have chosen French, for which no translator would have been needed.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is the highest earners exempting themselves from the taxes that ordinary Britons pay that are the trouble.

    Once the discontent crystalises and enough of the middle class aligns with the dispossessed that upheaval occurs.

    Historically the British elite were astute enough to reform just enough to prevent upheaval. That skill may not last forever. I speak of metaphorical tumbrils, rather than physical ones btw.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    tyson said:

    This really has to be a fake poll Kieran. Apart from the handful of Brexit obsessives on this site and Liam Fox, who the fuck remotely, in her right mind, thinks Brexit was/is/ever could be in any way, shape or form a good idea? You have to be quite fucking bonkers to think so.

    It ain't fake.

    Around half of Brits still think Brexit is a good idea.

    It's only when it is revealed that brexit doesn't mean what they were led to believe it would mean that the leave voter coalition will crumble. We're not there yet.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    This really has to be a fake poll Kieran. Apart from the handful of Brexit obsessives on this site and Liam Fox, who the fuck remotely, in her right mind, thinks Brexit was/is/ever could be in any way, shape or form a good idea? You have to be quite fucking bonkers to think so.

    It ain't fake.

    Around half of Brits still think Brexit is a good idea.

    It's only when it is revealed that brexit doesn't mean what they were led to believe it would mean that the leave voter coalition will crumble.
    What? Regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration is what they voted for and that alone.

    Plus of course we are now moving towards a FTA with the EU.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:
    I guess “has £3k invested indirectly in bright house” isn’t such a good headline. Barrel scraping doesn’t even begin to describe it, I would have thought with 500m invested they must have some significant indirect percentage of an arms dealer or something more scandalous.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950

    If you use Amazon regularly you can mitigate things by book marking an Affinity link for a charity you like. Click through from that and 5% to 8% of your pre VAT spend will go to your Charity. If it's convenient use the Local Collect option to have parcel deliveries made to your local Post Office for collection. This generates a bit of revenue for a public service.

    One other mitigating tactic for physical book purchases is to check out the second hand options it will prompt you with. These are very often from independent and/or charity booksellers using the Marketplace. Once you get past the books not being pristine you'll not notice the difference with new ones.

    Or you can get them from your local library. Which, thru interlibrary lending, which covers even university libraries, can get damn nearly any book you want.

    (Sorry. Big fan of libraries)
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pong said:

    It ain't fake.

    Around half of Brits still think Brexit is a good idea.

    It's only when it is revealed that brexit doesn't mean what they were led to believe it would mean that the leave voter coalition will crumble. We're not there yet.

    If it turns out the "settled will of the British public" was bought with Russian cash, do Brexiteer still think it should be pursued regardless?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:


    Loopholes are also available to everyone if they want to use them, even if obviously they are more beneficial the more assets you have.

    In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
    The law also prevents the rich from receiving welfare benefits (unless they are pensioners) and social housing too.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    Pong said:

    It ain't fake.

    Around half of Brits still think Brexit is a good idea.

    It's only when it is revealed that brexit doesn't mean what they were led to believe it would mean that the leave voter coalition will crumble. We're not there yet.

    If it turns out the "settled will of the British public" was bought with Russian cash, do Brexiteer still think it should be pursued regardless?
    How may I ask did Russian cash buy leave - and by the way I voted remain but now want to leave as anything else betrays democracy
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "Denmark’s minister for Immigration and Integration Inger Støjberg was hastily evacuated from the Sjælsmark deportation centre for rejected asylum seekers after tensions escalated during a tense visit to the facility."

    https://www.thelocal.dk/20171103/danish-immigration-minister-escorted-from-deportation-centre-as-tensions-boil-over
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:


    The high street is heading for a very serious crisis in the coming years.

    Also report today of big drop in beer sales. I do not drink much and never have drunk beer but is the loss of beer sales not offset with the rise of craft beers and cider. My family and friends nearly all drink craft beer, cider or wine
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact they use loopholes where they exist does not change that and the lowest earners now pay no income tax at all.

    As for 'the tumbrils' since universal suffrage there is no longer any need for those.
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    The .
    So, everyone else pays income tax and VAT. If they save more they pay less VAT.
    Ah, so your advice to low earners is 'save more'? Sounds like you've been taking lessons from Marie Antoinette!
    Well if they are that bothered about VAT yes or buy more frozen yoghurt, milk, herbal tea, coffee, frozen foods, mousse, tortialla chips etc which are exempt from VAT.
  • Options
    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    As the Guardian admits, Queenie voluntary pays tax on this investment.
  • Options
    Now I'm even more confused. Apparently I should be indignant because some ex-pop star bought into a Maltese fund which invested in Lithuania.

    I thought the Guardian was keen on the EU?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Freggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am shocked, shocked to discover that rich people minimise their tax burdens.

    When is someone going to take on Amazon, Starbucks, Apple et al? They're the real reason people are losing faith in capitalism.

    I suppose it's too easy, too convenient. We like our cheap tat delivered cheaply. Amazon are happy to provide this, unlike Lord Ashcroft. So we give them a free pass.
    Well just gone all Amazon Prime with fire stick and it seems a really good deal.
    It's a great deal, unfortunately. I use them myself for the same reason. For me it's a convenience factor - they can have whatever I want delivered to the office, which saves me an inordinate amount of time - mostly little everyday necessities I would have to wait until the weekend to shop for, because the shops are shut by the time I leave work.

    That doesn't mean they didn't just pay £15m in tax last year. On £7bn of sales.

    .
    .

    "we might have to spend a little more on books and electronics, but we wouldn't have to pay as much in tax"

    So it makes no net difference to the average consumer. Either more tax or higher prices; either way we pay.

    It is like pre-revolutionary France, when the aristocracy were exempt from taxes and the laws that applied to the rest.

    They are laughing at the moment. They will not laugh forever, not when the tumbrils start rolling.

    They are not 'exempt' from tax, the fact
    The lowest earners can't earn enough to put a roof over their heads and have no hope of accumulating their own capital.

    The system is f*cked.
    The lowest earners have been taken out of income tax altogether and have seen an increase in the minimum wage.

    It is the highest earners exempting themselves from the taxes that ordinary Britons pay that are the trouble.

    Once the discontent crystalises and enough of the middle class aligns with the dispossessed that upheaval occurs.

    Historically the British elite were astute enough to reform just enough to prevent upheaval. That skill may not last forever. I speak of metaphorical tumbrils, rather than physical ones btw.
    They are not 'exempting' themselves from tax just using loopholes offered by the elected government of the day.
  • Options
    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    At least I didn't move country for financial reasons.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2017
    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    Fine words, tyson. Bravo!

    Maybe its time for you to hand over your rental properties to the tenants.

    Not all of them. Just one.

    I mean, you’ll never miss it. And you don’t need the extra bucks.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408

    The number of conservative MP's being investigated is growing daily.

    I hope the party is lining up really good candidates for possible by elections, each one being female and one called Ruth would be fine

    Mrs May has long wanted to bring some fresh young and more diverse faces up the Tory hierarchy. But I fear this latest of her increasingly cunning plans is having some unforeseen consequences?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited November 2017
    The Lord Ashcroft story on the other hand...
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    There must be other big names of interest in this paradise database other than the Duchy of Lancaster?
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    There must be other big names of interest in this paradise database other than the Duchy of Lancaster?

    Team Trump interactions with Russians seem the story to me.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    At least I didn't move country for financial reasons.
    Ouch.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    Evening all.

    The Bottom Line with Evan David was on Radio 4 last night and its topic was foreign direct investment in Britain: the factors influencing it and, inevitably, Brexit. 3 interviewees from BMW, Tata and a Chinese entrepreneur. Well worth half an hour of your time to listen to it on iPlayer.

    Interesting analysis and the interviewees had a much more thoughtful and less hysterical analysis about Brexit than you might assume. Something to bear in mind when considering why businesses invest and how the outside world considers us.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    edited November 2017
    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Uh no.

    Actually ensuring their children are provided for at least to a basic level ensures their children will not need welfare and social housing and be a burden on taxpayers.

    Plus spending vast amounts is only really helpful to the British economy if it is spent on British goods or British services.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited November 2017
    Now everyone seems to have noticed that Russia is involved in very active attempts to cause as much conflict and chaos within Western democracies, suddenly they may be responsible for the Brexit result?

    I remember how people thought that the view that we needed to face down Putin's regime with immense firmness was essentially provocative

    Now they get it but only in the narrow confines of their own political bias because it suits.

    Yes, have no doubts things to come will show how people within UKIP aligned camp (no names but Ive been on about it for months) have some kind of associations with Moscow but there is no evidence that the Russian shadow merchants shifted opinion or votes. Maybe more will emerge but there is no case on that account right now.

    Trumpton

    George Papadopoulos was in Greece at the same time as Putin and his coterie were there. Luck maybe. Maybe not.

    Who did George meet in London by the way?

    As a note downthread. Mike Flynn has been indicted for ages, the news is that charges may be about to be brought.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited November 2017
    I am even more confused how it is anyway a scandal that Queenie had indirect investment in Threshers. All of us with pensions will have been invested in all sorts of businesses that have gone tits up.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    At least I didn't move country for financial reasons.
    Fair enough (sort of)...I was happy in Italy...it was my wife that took fright after Brexit and wanted to come back to the UK.....



  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Y0kel said:

    As a note downthread. Mike Flynn has been indicted for ages, the news is that charges may be about to be brought.

    Rumour that Flynn is a cooperating witness
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Scott_P said:

    Y0kel said:

    As a note downthread. Mike Flynn has been indicted for ages, the news is that charges may be about to be brought.

    Rumour that Flynn is a cooperating witness
    He might not have much choice, the charges with him are serious, genuinely serious.
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Nice to know that it's "tradition" which will impoverish the county for the next generation to come, and breaks up families should one of them have committed the cardinal sin (in Tory eyes) of having married a non-UK EU citizen.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Sean_F said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    At least I didn't move country for financial reasons.
    Ouch.
    Mate...I would like to see a vote where your wife was potentially cut off from all her assets and see what you felt like....


    You and your ideological group of zealots are creating such damage for this country through your bonkers crusade against the EU....well done.
  • Options

    I am even more confused how it is anyway a scandal that Queenie had indirect investment in Threshers. All of us with pensions will have been invested in all sorts of businesses that have gone tits up.

    Clearly the Guardian journalists have worked backwards from what they see as an incontrovertible truth that there must be some amazing scandals about the wicked elite in 13 million documents, and haven't quite adjusted to the fact that they don't actually seem to have found much.

    They really are the mirror image of the Daily Mail.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Y0kel said:

    He might not have much choice, the charges with him are serious, genuinely serious.

    https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/927204376476655616
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Maybe once but more recently it has been all about greed and the market.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774

    I am even more confused how it is anyway a scandal that Queenie had indirect investment in Threshers. All of us with pensions will have been invested in all sorts of businesses that have gone tits up.

    Clearly the Guardian journalists have worked backwards from what they see as an incontrovertible truth that there must be some amazing scandals about the wicked elite in 13 million documents, and haven't quite adjusted to the fact that they don't actually seem to have found much.

    They really are the mirror image of the Daily Mail.
    They have found so little that the Times the Telegraph and the Mail have decided to completely ignore the story. Oh, wait...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Chris_A said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    tyson said:

    Since it's confession week, I have to confess that I have invested in ETFs registered in Ireland. This clearly makes me a guilty tax-avoider in the Court of Public Opinion (along with almost any one else who has a pension fund) because ETFs choose Dublin as it is more tax-efficient than setting up in London.

    Mate...the story is that ultra rich people are so greedy that they cannot face paying a penny extra even if they would never miss it. It just seems to be in the psyche of the greedy graspers who worship capital and want to protect their share at all costs.

    The fact that you spend what limited time you have left on this planet researching and shifting monies between providers to make an extra buck is just a bit sad really. Unfortunately that is what many of our pensioners are reduced to...before the care home arrives, they spend their last years of useful life obsessively exploring low risk money making options/going on cruises/ or venturing out on weekend breaks at ludicrously expensive hotels.
    I'm massively in favour of those with large amounts of capital spending it.

    The economy is healthy when they do that. Wealth gets redistributed.

    The problem comes when they don't spend, just accumulate and pass onto their own kids to further accumulate. They're taking advantage of the economic system to buy their own kids the future financial bondage of other peoples kids.

    That ain't right.
    Yet we have a party in power which actively encourage this state of affairs.

    Liberal Conservatism doesn't have to be like this.
    There is no such thing as 'Liberal Conservatism' they are two contradictory terms.

    Conservatism has always been in favour of the family and tradition and inheritance.
    Nice to know that it's "tradition" which will impoverish the county for the next generation to come, and breaks up families should one of them have committed the cardinal sin (in Tory eyes) of having married a non-UK EU citizen.
    Brexit was not specifically a Tory issue, indeed well over a third of Labour voters voted Leave but sovereignty is of course a vital Tory position and of course all EU citizens currently here can remain here.
This discussion has been closed.