Has there ever been a period in politics like this. You only need to go out for a few minutes and you wonder on your return what else will be 'breaking news'
It's mostly hot air. Nothing important is happening most of the time.
Displacement activity.
We have had one really serious allegation, by Bex Bailey. The rest is a Whitehall farce.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
You are in John Humphreys territory here and his claim is absurd. The usual rules of courting still apply, ask politely to break the ice, if the offer is declined desist. In the late 70s and 80s my peers, middle class grammar school boys saw initial rejection as a challenge, that should have been unacceptable then, it is now!
I was brought up to realise the antics of Hopkins are grossly unacceptable, O'Mara cowardly (as he hid behind electronic anonymity) and Fallon rude and boorish. All are wrong and they always were, even if once they were brushed off as merely 'boys will be boys'!
Fallon should be suspended by the party for being a dick!
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
Well quite Hollywood made an industry out of films based on that that premise.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
You are in John Humphreys territory here and his claim is absurd. The usual rules of courting still apply, ask politely to break the ice, if the offer is declined desist. In the late 70s and 80s my peers, middle class grammar school boys saw initial rejection as a challenge, that should have been unacceptable then, it is now!
I was brought up to realise the antics of Hopkins are grossly unacceptable, O'Mara cowardly (as he hid behind electronic anonymity) and Fallon rude and boorish. All are wrong and they always were, even if once they were brushed off as merely 'boys will be boys'!
Fallon should be suspended by the party for being a dick!
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
You are being obtuse.It is back to no meaning no!
O'Mara has been suspended for gross 'dickheadery' and so should Fallon!
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
You are in John Humphreys territory here and his claim is absurd. The usual rules of courting still apply, ask politely to break the ice, if the offer is declined desist. In the late 70s and 80s my peers, middle class grammar school boys saw initial rejection as a challenge, that should have been unacceptable then, it is now!
I was brought up to realise the antics of Hopkins are grossly unacceptable, O'Mara cowardly (as he hid behind electronic anonymity) and Fallon rude and boorish. All are wrong and they always were, even if once they were brushed off as merely 'boys will be boys'!
Fallon should be suspended by the party for being a dick!
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
Well quite Hollywood made an industry out of films based on that that premise.
Sometimes attraction is immediate, but often, it's something that only develops over time. Plenty of romantic novels have been written on that basis.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
You are in John Humphreys territory here and his claim is absurd. The usual rules of courting still apply, ask politely to break the ice, if the offer is declined desist. In the late 70s and 80s my peers, middle class grammar school boys saw initial rejection as a challenge, that should have been unacceptable then, it is now!
I was brought up to realise the antics of Hopkins are grossly unacceptable, O'Mara cowardly (as he hid behind electronic anonymity) and Fallon rude and boorish. All are wrong and they always were, even if once they were brushed off as merely 'boys will be boys'!
Fallon should be suspended by the party for being a dick!
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
You are being obtuse.It is back to no meaning no!
O'Mara has been suspended for gross 'dickheadery' and so should Fallon!
The human race would rapidly die out if we adopted your theories.
Has there ever been a period in politics like this. You only need to go out for a few minutes and you wonder on your return what else will be 'breaking news'
It's mostly hot air. Nothing important is happening most of the time.
Displacement activity.
We have had one really serious allegation, by Bex Bailey. The rest is a Whitehall farce.
I was talking about the news in general, rather than any one particular story. 24 News Channel is a bit of a con really, that tries to keep you hooked with "breaking news" stories every five minutes.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
You are in John Humphreys territory here and his claim is absurd. The usual rules of courting still apply, ask politely to break the ice, if the offer is declined desist. In the late 70s and 80s my peers, middle class grammar school boys saw initial rejection as a challenge, that should have been unacceptable then, it is now!
I was brought up to realise the antics of Hopkins are grossly unacceptable, O'Mara cowardly (as he hid behind electronic anonymity) and Fallon rude and boorish. All are wrong and they always were, even if once they were brushed off as merely 'boys will be boys'!
Fallon should be suspended by the party for being a dick!
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
You are being obtuse.It is back to no meaning no!
O'Mara has been suspended for gross 'dickheadery' and so should Fallon!
The human race would rapidly die out if we adopted your theories.
I think the theory that plenty of MPs are dickheads is arguably one of the more useful maxims in life.
Sky chasing Corbyn down the street asking if he knew about Kelvin Hopkins. This is at his door now (literally)
I can see how much you're enjoying this.
That is out of order - the point I am making is that it is in all parties but until now the spotlight has not included labour
Yes it has - there have been any number of allegations about Labour MPs, Councillors and Councils. The spotlight has intended turned on the Conservatives this week and clearly some of that Party's members aren't enjoying the scrutiny and are desperate to look elsewhere.
Why do you think Fallon resigned ? Should Damian Green resign as well ?
Fallon may well have more to come and yes Damien Green should resign
Because?
Of an allegation which is even disputed, and is of a doubtful level of severity anyway (and even if all happened could amount to nothing more than a misunderstanding)? I think if something like this is to be a resigning matter, there at least has to be evidence that it represents a pattern of behaviour, which we are all I think assuming is the situation in the Fallon case.
Damien Green is deputy PM and needs to be above suspicion.
Nobody should be thrown under the bus on the basis of a trivial allegation.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
Yes interesting. as I said the other night we don't want to breed a society where if you're male being a cold fish is the only way to get on. Fallon is apparently a sociable fellow and sometimes work can be very mundane so a few risque remarks to relieve the underlying tenseness of the situation is no crime in my book. Leadsom although loathsome in the eyes of Remainers is also known to be quite sociable and have a sense of humour. So this latest story still raises more questions than answers.
It's not a choice for a man between being a sexually boorish oaf and being a cold fish, you know.
Plenty of men are able to be warm, charming, friendly and funny without making revolting remarks about genitals or sex or leering like dirty old men.
What's interesting is the interplay with the May/Brexit crisis. The currently inexplicable Fallon departure increasingly looks like an intra conservative hit job. It'll be interesting to see how the Patel story develops.
It's possible some of the Ultras think that Brexit would be fine if only they were in charge.
Of course if they take over and it is still a shambles, who do they blame next?
That in my view is the Big story of the next 10 years. How do the Republicans mainstream Trumpism after Trump crashes and burns ? Who do europhobes blame for leaving the EU being a disaster ? Who do we blame next ? Typically millenarian cults blame faulty interpretation of the base text, shift the paraousia to a future date and double down on the rhetoric.
So many variables in play it's impossible to predict here. But the basic template is to tell voters who's core socioeconomic conditions have stayed the same/gotten worse that Brexit was Stolen/Didn't really happen and just reset the whole thing. The Daily Express has moved onto foreign aid. Of course if we don't externalise it we internalise. Why we see mini flare ups like the Universities Brexit fauxtrage.
Carwyn Jones in Wales has astutely and publicly warned it'll just reattach it's self to Westminster. Given Wales' resistance to date to electoral nationalism I think that's significant. Look at the extraordinary movement in the Northern Ireland polling on the unity question.
What's interesting is the interplay with the May/Brexit crisis. The currently inexplicable Fallon departure increasingly looks like an intra conservative hit job. It'll be interesting to see how the Patel story develops.
It's possible some of the Ultras think that Brexit would be fine if only they were in charge.
Of course if they take over and it is still a shambles, who do they blame next?
That in my view is the Big story of the next 10 years. How do the Republicans mainstream Trumpism after Trump crashes and burns ? Who do europhobes blame for leaving the EU being a disaster ? Who do we blame next ? Typically millenarian cults blame faulty interpretation of the base text, shift the paraousia to a future date and double down on the rhetoric.
So many variables in play it's impossible to predict here. But the basic template is to tell voters who's core socioeconomic conditions have stayed the same/gotten worse that Brexit was Stolen/Didn't really happen and just reset the whole thing. The Daily Express has moved onto foreign aid. Of course if we don't externalise it we internalise. Why we see mini flare ups like the Universities Brexit fauxtrage.
Carwyn Jones in Wales has astutely and publicly warned it'll just reattach it's self to Westminster. Given Wales' resistance to date to electoral nationalism I think that's significant. Look at the extraordinary movement in the Northern Ireland polling on the unity question.
Opposition to Irish unification (judging by recent polling) ranges from a large majority against to a huge majority against.
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
Indeed, but there are ways and there are ways...
Good manners, charm, charisma and a healthy does of respect will go a long way towards winning anyone over. "Cor! You've got nice tits!!" and other variations on that theme are unlikely to work no matter how many times they are employed.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
Yes interesting. as I said the other night we don't want to breed a society where if you're male being a cold fish is the only way to get on. Fallon is apparently a sociable fellow and sometimes work can be very mundane so a few risque remarks to relieve the underlying tenseness of the situation is no crime in my book. Leadsom although loathsome in the eyes of Remainers is also known to be quite sociable and have a sense of humour. So this latest story still raises more questions than answers.
It's not a choice for a man between being a sexually boorish oaf and being a cold fish, you know.
Plenty of men are able to be warm, charming, friendly and funny without making revolting remarks about genitals or sex or leering like dirty old men.
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish.
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
Indeed, but there are ways and there are ways...
Good manners, charm, charisma and a healthy does of respect will go a long way towards winning anyone over. "Cor! You've got nice tits!!" and other variations on that theme are unlikely to work no matter how many times they are employed.
In general I'd agree. But, there are parts of the country (eg Borehamwood) where "Cor, you've got nice tits!" would be considered an entirely normal chat up line.
... and would occasioanly ask a group of girls.... never, IIRC one her own...
That is because one girl / woman on her own is a target. Two can fight off a pest if it comes to the crunch. Girls learn it from their peers and older female relatives.
This is like a wildfire. It will burn it's self out and we'll adjust to the new ecology surprisingly quickly. The only variable in play is how much dry scrub there is and the length of the fire. But these burns are part of a natural cycle. Power corrupts, the pendulum abruptly swings to a corrective extreme then a new equilibrium is found.
What's interesting is the interplay with the May/Brexit crisis. The currently inexplicable Fallon departure increasingly looks like an intra conservative hit job. It'll be interesting to see how the Patel story develops.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
Yes interesting. as I said the other night we don't want to breed a society where if you're male being a cold fish is the only way to get on. Fallon is apparently a sociable fellow and sometimes work can be very mundane so a few risque remarks to relieve the underlying tenseness of the situation is no crime in my book. Leadsom although loathsome in the eyes of Remainers is also known to be quite sociable and have a sense of humour. So this latest story still raises more questions than answers.
It's not a choice for a man between being a sexually boorish oaf and being a cold fish, you know.
Plenty of men are able to be warm, charming, friendly and funny without making revolting remarks about genitals or sex or leering like dirty old men.
We'll end up with a lot of men avoiding women altogether, the way they already do with children.
Sky chasing Corbyn down the street asking if he knew about Kelvin Hopkins. This is at his door now (literally)
I can see how much you're enjoying this.
That is out of order - the point I am making is that it is in all parties but until now the spotlight has not included labour
Yes it has - there have been any number of allegations about Labour MPs, Councillors and Councils. The spotlight has intended turned on the Conservatives this week and clearly some of that Party's members aren't enjoying the scrutiny and are desperate to look elsewhere.
Why do you think Fallon resigned ? Should Damian Green resign as well ?
Fallon may well have more to come and yes Damien Green should resign
Because?
Of an allegation which is even disputed, and is of a doubtful level of severity anyway (and even if all happened could amount to nothing more than a misunderstanding)? I think if something like this is to be a resigning matter, there at least has to be evidence that it represents a pattern of behaviour, which we are all I think assuming is the situation in the Fallon case.
Damien Green is deputy PM and needs to be above suspicion.
Plenty of MP’s and Ministers have lived less than saintly lives in the past, and provided they weren’t silly about it managed perfectly well. Lloyd Geoge had a mistress (or mistresses) in London and a wife in Wales for many, many years. In later times the prime example is Alan Clark. Come to that no-one made much of a fuss about Major and Edwina Curie. To take an example of someone where it all fell apart, Profumo a) got mixed up with a young lady who was, allegedly anyway, also bestowing her favours on a Russian diplomat and b) lied about it.
This is like a wildfire. It will burn it's self out and we'll adjust to the new ecology surprisingly quickly. The only variable in play is how much dry scrub there is and the length of the fire. But these burns are part of a natural cycle. Power corrupts, the pendulum abruptly swings to a corrective extreme then a new equilibrium is found.
What's interesting is the interplay with the May/Brexit crisis. The currently inexplicable Fallon departure increasingly looks like an intra conservative hit job. It'll be interesting to see how the Patel story develops.
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
... and would occasioanly ask a group of girls.... never, IIRC one her own...
That is because one girl / woman on her own is a target. Two can fight off a pest if it comes to the crunch. Girls learn it from their peers and older female relatives.
Quite. And, IIRC one of a gang of girls would apparently be shocked, one or two others would pretend to be, but sometimes another would respond.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
Yes interesting. as I said the other night we don't want to breed a society where if you're male being a cold fish is the only way to get on. Fallon is apparently a sociable fellow and sometimes work can be very mundane so a few risque remarks to relieve the underlying tenseness of the situation is no crime in my book. Leadsom although loathsome in the eyes of Remainers is also known to be quite sociable and have a sense of humour. So this latest story still raises more questions than answers.
It's not a choice for a man between being a sexually boorish oaf and being a cold fish, you know.
Plenty of men are able to be warm, charming, friendly and funny without making revolting remarks about genitals or sex or leering like dirty old men.
We'll end up with a lot of men avoiding women altogether, the way they already do with children.
Sky chasing Corbyn down the street asking if he knew about Kelvin Hopkins. This is at his door now (literally)
I can see how much you're enjoying this.
That is out of order - the point I am making is that it is in all parties but until now the spotlight has not included labour
Yes it has - there have been any number of allegations about Labour MPs, Councillors and Councils. The spotlight has intended turned on the Conservatives this week and clearly some of that Party's members aren't enjoying the scrutiny and are desperate to look elsewhere.
Why do you think Fallon resigned ? Should Damian Green resign as well ?
Fallon may well have more to come and yes Damien Green should resign
Because?
Of an allegation which is even disputed, and is of a doubtful level of severity anyway (and even if all happened could amount to nothing more than a misunderstanding)? I think if something like this is to be a resigning matter, there at least has to be evidence that it represents a pattern of behaviour, which we are all I think assuming is the situation in the Fallon case.
Damien Green is deputy PM and needs to be above suspicion.
Plenty of MP’s and Ministers have lived less than saintly lives in the past, and provided they weren’t silly about it managed perfectly well. Lloyd Geoge had a mistress (or mistresses) in London and a wife in Wales for many, many years. In later times the prime example is Alan Clark. Come to that no-one made much of a fuss about Major and Edwina Curie. To take an example of someone where it all fell apart, Profumo a) got mixed up with a young lady who was, allegedly anyway, also bestowing her favours on a Russian diplomat and b) lied about it.
These are not examples of abuse of power. They were mutual activities and non-coercive. We are talking about people using positions of power to coerce those less powerful into unwanted activities.
Utterly pointless bit of polling. The vast, vast, vast majority of people have no idea what an impact assessment is - let alone the effect on that putting them into the public sphere may have on the ongoing negotiations.
And the question does seem to lead people towards a certain response.
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult.
Perhaps I can add young male politicians and would-be politicians to the list of people needing to learn how to behave? They seem to be an ideal target for culture change, having so much in common with some of the pillocks infesting the City.
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult.
Perhaps I can add young male politicians and would-be politicians how to behave? They seem to be an ideal target for culture change, having so much in common with some of the pillocks infesting the City.
Perhaps you could add a Life Skills section to your service offering on the website.
Marf just disappeared into the back of a limousine headed for Millbank where she is due to appear on Daily Politics. In her absence I can say on her behalf that she appreciates comments like yours which give her great encouragement to persist in a difficult and often hostile environment.
I agree, SeanF, that the best of her work compares favorably with the general standard of political cartooning in this country. I particularly like the architectural detail you often see in her work. This one is a good example.
The discussion on Daily Politics at 12.40pm will I think be centred around the theme of women cartoonists - why there are so few, and in what ways they depict the world differently from their male counterparts. Again, today's cartoon is a good illustration. I do hope you and Fox can tune in.
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
Sky chasing Corbyn down the street asking if he knew about Kelvin Hopkins. This is at his door now (literally)
I can see how much you're enjoying this.
That is out of order - the point I am making is that it is in all parties but until now the spotlight has not included labour
Yes it has - there have been any number of allegations about Labour MPs, Councillors and Councils. The spotlight has intended turned on the Conservatives this week and clearly some of that Party's members aren't enjoying the scrutiny and are desperate to look elsewhere.
Why do you think Fallon resigned ? Should Damian Green resign as well ?
Fallon may well have more to come and yes Damien Green should resign
Because?
Of an allegation which is even disputed, and is of a doubtful level of severity anyway (and even if all happened could amount to nothing more than a misunderstanding)? I think if something like this is to be a resigning matter, there at least has to be evidence that it represents a pattern of behaviour, which we are all I think assuming is the situation in the Fallon case.
Damien Green is deputy PM and needs to be above suspicion.
Plenty of MP’s and Ministers have lived less than saintly lives in the past, and provided they weren’t silly about it managed perfectly well. Lloyd Geoge had a mistress (or mistresses) in London and a wife in Wales for many, many years. In later times the prime example is Alan Clark. Come to that no-one made much of a fuss about Major and Edwina Curie. To take an example of someone where it all fell apart, Profumo a) got mixed up with a young lady who was, allegedly anyway, also bestowing her favours on a Russian diplomat and b) lied about it.
These are not examples of abuse of power. They were mutual activities and non-coercive. We are talking about people using positions of power to coerce those less powerful into unwanted activities.
Plus shocking use of apostrophe.
You might be right about Currie and Major and possibly Profumo but I’m not as sure about either of the others. But I wasn’t there, so......
What’s the matter with the apostrophe? I’ll admit to a spelling mistake though!
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult.
Perhaps I can add young male politicians and would-be politicians how to behave? They seem to be an ideal target for culture change, having so much in common with some of the pillocks infesting the City.
On the odd occassions I found myself in detention I was made to write ' Manners maketh man' 600 times.
It was the schools standard requirement in detention
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult.
Perhaps I can add young male politicians and would-be politicians how to behave? They seem to be an ideal target for culture change, having so much in common with some of the pillocks infesting the City.
Perhaps you could add a Life Skills section to your service offering on the website.
To be honest, most of the Banking Culture section is about Life Skills, like not lying or cheating. I may as well put the 10 Commandments up there. They pretty much cover most of it.
Sky chasing Corbyn down the street asking if he knew about Kelvin Hopkins. This is at his door now (literally)
I can see how much you're enjoying this.
That is out of order - the point I am making is that it is in all parties but until now the spotlight has not included labour
Yes it has - there have been any number of allegations about Labour MPs, Councillors and Councils. The spotlight has intended turned on the Conservatives this week and clearly some of that Party's members aren't enjoying the scrutiny and are desperate to look elsewhere.
Why do you think Fallon resigned ? Should Damian Green resign as well ?
Fallon may well have more to come and yes Damien Green should resign
Because?
Of an allegation which is even disputed, and is of a doubtful level of severity anyway (and even if all happened could amount to nothing more than a misunderstanding)? I think if something like this is to be a resigning matter, there at least has to be evidence that it represents a pattern of behaviour, which we are all I think assuming is the situation in the Fallon case.
Damien Green is deputy PM and needs to be above suspicion.
Plenty of MP’s and Ministers have lived less than saintly lives in the past, and provided they weren’t silly about it managed perfectly well. Lloyd Geoge had a mistress (or mistresses) in London and a wife in Wales for many, many years. In later times the prime example is Alan Clark. Come to that no-one made much of a fuss about Major and Edwina Curie. To take an example of someone where it all fell apart, Profumo a) got mixed up with a young lady who was, allegedly anyway, also bestowing her favours on a Russian diplomat and b) lied about it.
These are not examples of abuse of power. They were mutual activities and non-coercive. We are talking about people using positions of power to coerce those less powerful into unwanted activities.
Plus shocking use of apostrophe.
You might be right about Currie and Major and possibly Profumo but I’m not as sure about either of the others. But I wasn’t there, so......
What’s the matter with the apostrophe? I’ll admit to a spelling mistake though!
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
Absolutely!
The standard "fix" for that is to go to the bar with him, let him buy it and take it direct from the bar staff.
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
The administration via your drink of rohypnol - the date rape drug
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
No....
How about "Hello, can I buy you a drink?"
And have the lady take offence at the idea that she’s not of sufficient means to be able to afford her own drinks?
Wasn't there some study about chat up lines? Where it was shown that the most successful chat up line a woman could use on a man was: "Hello"
That sounds about right. Polite conversation usually works well as a starting point from both sides.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
I'm probablytoo latealready but roffied refers to having a drug slipped into your drink so that you're knocked out and date raped.
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult.
Perhaps I can add young male politicians and would-be politicians how to behave? They seem to be an ideal target for culture change, having so much in common with some of the pillocks infesting the City.
Perhaps you could add a Life Skills section to your service offering on the website.
To be honest, most of the Banking Culture section is about Life Skills, like not lying or cheating. I may as well put the 10 Commandments up there. They pretty much cover most of it.
As someone once said to me: this stuff may and should be bl**dy obvious but sometimes you have to get up on the table and shout it for it to sink in with people...
Would love to take a look at it, if you are happy to reveal it - or PM me.
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult....
Quite - and Mogg manages to do it while expressing opinions which arguably belong in the 18th Century.
Many of the complaints from men about having to worry about the niceties of social interactions - which they've happily ignored in the past - rather ignore the fact that women have had to worry about exactly those things, and for far more pressing reasons, basically forever.
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
DID YOU NOT WATCH LIAR?????????????????????????????????
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
Spiking someone’s drink.
Ah. I didn't know it was called that. It happened to me and the consequences were very grave. One reason why I feel so strongly (can you tell? ) about this topic.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
No....
How about "Hello, can I buy you a drink?"
And have the lady take offence at the idea that she’s not of sufficient means to be able to afford her own drinks?
Wasn't there some study about chat up lines? Where it was shown that the most successful chat up line a woman could use on a man was: "Hello"
That sounds about right. Polite conversation usually works well as a starting point from both sides.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
Have seen that in practice also - persistence beats finesse most of the time.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
You are in John Humphreys territory here and his claim is absurd. The usual rules of courting still apply, ask politely to break the ice, if the offer is declined desist. In the late 70s and 80s my peers, middle class grammar school boys saw initial rejection as a challenge, that should have been unacceptable then, it is now!
I was brought up to realise the antics of Hopkins are grossly unacceptable, O'Mara cowardly (as he hid behind electronic anonymity) and Fallon rude and boorish. All are wrong and they always were, even if once they were brushed off as merely 'boys will be boys'!
Fallon should be suspended by the party for being a dick!
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
You are being obtuse.It is back to no meaning no!
O'Mara has been suspended for gross 'dickheadery' and so should Fallon!
The human race would rapidly die out if we adopted your theories.
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
No....
How about "Hello, can I buy you a drink?"
And have the lady take offence at the idea that she’s not of sufficient means to be able to afford her own drinks?
Wasn't there some study about chat up lines? Where it was shown that the most successful chat up line a woman could use on a man was: "Hello"
That sounds about right. Polite conversation usually works well as a starting point from both sides.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
My chat up lines were awful but I never got slapped
In these days of Tinder and internet dating, it's not as though there's any need to hit on one's work colleagues in the search for a partner / quick fling. Best to be polite and friendly at work and save the naughty stuff for those who are definitely up for it!
Sky chasing Corbyn down the street asking if he knew about Kelvin Hopkins. This is at his door now (literally)
I can see how much you're enjoying this.
That is out of order - the point I am making is that it is in all parties but until now the spotlight has not included labour
Yes it has - there have been any number of allegations about Labour MPs, Councillors and Councils. The spotlight has intended turned on the Conservatives this week and clearly some of that Party's members aren't enjoying the scrutiny and are desperate to look elsewhere.
Why do you think Fallon resigned ? Should Damian Green resign as well ?
Fallon may well have more to come and yes Damien Green should resign
Because?
Of an allegation which is even disputed, and is of a doubtful level of severity anyway (and even if all happened could amount to nothing more than a misunderstanding)? I think if something like this is to be a resigning matter, there at least has to be evidence that it represents a pattern of behaviour, which we are all I think assuming is the situation in the Fallon case.
Damien Green is deputy PM and needs to be above suspicion.
Plenty of MP’s and Ministers have lived less than saintly lives in the past, and provided they weren’t silly about it managed perfectly well. Lloyd Geoge had a mistress (or mistresses) in London and a wife in Wales for many, many years. In later times the prime example is Alan Clark. Come to that no-one made much of a fuss about Major and Edwina Curie. To take an example of someone where it all fell apart, Profumo a) got mixed up with a young lady who was, allegedly anyway, also bestowing her favours on a Russian diplomat and b) lied about it.
These are not examples of abuse of power. They were mutual activities and non-coercive. We are talking about people using positions of power to coerce those less powerful into unwanted activities.
Plus shocking use of apostrophe.
You might be right about Currie and Major and possibly Profumo but I’m not as sure about either of the others. But I wasn’t there, so......
What’s the matter with the apostrophe? I’ll admit to a spelling mistake though!
"Plenty of MP's..."
Are you suggesting the long form should be Member of Parliaments?
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
DID YOU NOT WATCH LIAR?????????????????????????????????
No. Rarely watch TV, other than documentaries and gardening programmes. Oh and W1A, which I love.
I prefer the radio. Neil McGregor's latest series "Living With the Gods" is superb.
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
No....
How about "Hello, can I buy you a drink?"
And have the lady take offence at the idea that she’s not of sufficient means to be able to afford her own drinks?
Wasn't there some study about chat up lines? Where it was shown that the most successful chat up line a woman could use on a man was: "Hello"
That sounds about right. Polite conversation usually works well as a starting point from both sides.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
Have seen that in practice also - persistence beats finesse most of the time.
But would you really want to spend the night with such a woman?
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult.
Perhaps I can add young male politicians and would-be politicians to the list of people needing to learn how to behave? They seem to be an ideal target for culture change, having so much in common with some of the pillocks infesting the City.
I think quite a lot depends on the social circles one moves in. Viz reflects quite accurately what goes in in nightclubs and pubs at weekends in Newcastle or places like Ibiza or Malia. It's a bit of an eye-opener to see both young men and young women mooning and flashing at passers-by, or relieving themselves in the street.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
I have no problem with that approach. Most of the women said "no" and he moved on. One said "yes" so both of them were happy.
The approach may have been boorish, but "No" meant "No" and he understood that. That is what really matters. (I am assuming that since he was playing a numbers game, he had to move along fairly quickly and had no time to pester the woman into changing her mind)
Mrs C, but that expresses patriarchal dominance of wealth, not to mention the micro-aggression of accosting a stranger without first acquiring written permission.
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Mr Dancer. Women do not hate men. Most women really like men (some like other women) and most women want to have a man in their life. We are not looking to victimise every bloke.
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
When I started uni (far too long ago) the women I knew were advised not to accept drinks from strange men to reduce the risk of being roofied.
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
Spiking someone’s drink.
Ah. I didn't know it was called that. It happened to me and the consequences were very grave. One reason why I feel so strongly (can you tell? ) about this topic.
I can tell, I didn’t drink at university and I was the designated drink watcher/getter.
We're confusing far too many issues here and are in danger of changing the relationships between men and women for the worse. I can see a time where the only dating will be online. Anything more traditional will require a lawyer present.
What has happened with children where men are reluctant to even smile in their direction will soon apply to male/female contacts. Which man hasn't made a pass at a woman or vice versa? Sometimes they might read the signals wrongly but that shouldn't be a police matter or a case for dismissal.
I was with my little niece at a fair recently and she was on a ride. When it finished she was left on her own because the man running the ride wouldn't pick her up and bring her to me. I had to clambour over the machinery and pick her up myself. I was embarrassed for him.
In Italy and Spain and to a lesser extent France it's completely different. The females at the companies I work for hug you when they greet you link arms when they walk beside you kiss you when they like something you've done and go to sleep on you on airoplanes......
...And they love children. It's a nice cheerful environment to work in
My Spanish producer tells what she considers the hilarious story of when she met the family of her Old Etonian English boyfriend. He shook hands with his Mother!
You are in John Humphreys territory here and his claim is absurd. The usual rules of courting still apply, ask politely to break the ice, if the offer is declined desist. In the late 70s and 80s my peers, middle class grammar school boys saw initial rejection as a challenge, that should have been unacceptable then, it is now!
I was brought up to realise the antics of Hopkins are grossly unacceptable, O'Mara cowardly (as he hid behind electronic anonymity) and Fallon rude and boorish. All are wrong and they always were, even if once they were brushed off as merely 'boys will be boys'!
Fallon should be suspended by the party for being a dick!
Being a dick is hardly a reason to suspend someone.
As to your first paragraph, plenty of people have formed lasting relationships with people who initially turned them down.
You are being obtuse.It is back to no meaning no!
O'Mara has been suspended for gross 'dickheadery' and so should Fallon!
The human race would rapidly die out if we adopted your theories.
In these days of Tinder and internet dating, it's not as though there's any need to hit on one's work colleagues in the search for a partner / quick fling. Best to be polite and friendly at work and save the naughty stuff for those who are definitely up for it!
I am going to sound so old-fashioned I know. But internet dating sounds so sad. Whatever happened to serendipity, falling for someone unexpected, rather than just looking for someone who matches your predetermined list of desirable characteristics?
Without wishing to go all @SeanT on you all, I have had a number of significant men in my life and none of them would have fitted some predetermined template. And all were lovely in different ways. It is the process of getting to know people and exploration and not writing people off at first glance that makes courtship such fun.
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
Mr.D, I believe Shakespeare was capable of slightly more subtlety... "I do beseech you – chiefly that I may set it in my prayers – what is your name?" for example... perhaps a little florid though.
Incidentally, further to our exchange a couple of days ago, I forgot to post that you were entirely correct that 'tinker' is not a racial slur: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker
In these days of Tinder and internet dating, it's not as though there's any need to hit on one's work colleagues in the search for a partner / quick fling. Best to be polite and friendly at work and save the naughty stuff for those who are definitely up for it!
I am going to sound so old-fashioned I know. But internet dating sounds so sad. Whatever happened to serendipity, falling for someone unexpected, rather than just looking for someone who matches your predetermined list of desirable characteristics?
Without wishing to go all @SeanT on you all, I have had a number of significant men in my life and none of them would have fitted some predetermined template. And all were lovely in different ways. It is the process of getting to know people and exploration and not writing people off at first glance that makes courtship such fun.
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
No....
How about "Hello, can I buy you a drink?"
And have the lady take offence at the idea that she’s not of sufficient means to be able to afford her own drinks?
Wasn't there some study about chat up lines? Where it was shown that the most successful chat up line a woman could use on a man was: "Hello"
That sounds about right. Polite conversation usually works well as a starting point from both sides.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
Have seen that in practice also - persistence beats finesse most of the time.
I don't think a lot of people have the stomach or the hardness of cheek to manage such a blunt approach.
Being crippling shy is difficult, but even there perseverance can win out even with being so hesitant to approach.
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
Mr.D, I believe Shakespeare was capable of slightly more subtlety... "I do beseech you – chiefly that I may set it in my prayers – what is your name?" for example... perhaps a little florid though.
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
No....
How about "Hello, can I buy you a drink?"
And have the lady take offence at the idea that she’s not of sufficient means to be able to afford her own drinks?
Wasn't there some study about chat up lines? Where it was shown that the most successful chat up line a woman could use on a man was: "Hello"
That sounds about right. Polite conversation usually works well as a starting point from both sides.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
Have seen that in practice also - persistence beats finesse most of the time.
But would you really want to spend the night with such a woman?
For the people who employ such an approach, the answer is self-evident.
For the "rest" of us, I suppose it depends upon how much you want or need to have sex.
Of course but the climate being engendered may lead younger men entering politics to play safe by being cold fish. better mannered
Fixed it for you
Exactly.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult....
Quite - and Mogg manages to do it while expressing opinions which arguably belong in the 18th Century.
Many of the complaints from men about having to worry about the niceties of social interactions - which they've happily ignored in the past - rather ignore the fact that women have had to worry about exactly those things, and for far more pressing reasons, basically forever.
Whilst I do not rate Mogg as a politician, I do not doubt his manners.
In these days of Tinder and internet dating, it's not as though there's any need or it!
I am going to sound so old-fashioned I know. But internet dating sounds so sad. Whatever happened to serendipity, falling for someone unexpected, rather than just looking for someone who matches your predetermined list of desirable characteristics?
Without wishing to go all @SeanT on you all, I have had a number of significant men in my life and none of them would have fitted some predetermined template. And all were lovely in different ways. It is the process of getting to know people and exploration and not writing people off at first glance that makes courtship such fun.
As I say, hopelessly old-fashioned.......
I know a couple who met online, not through Internet dating and looking for a partner, but because they played an online roLe playing game together, got to know each other a bit for real, eventually met in person after some transatlantic flights, and are now married with kids.
"A former Guardian journalist has come under for saying 'attractive young women' working in Westminster are 'predators' who prey on 'poor old, ugly backbenchers'.
Speaking on Radio 4 yesterday, the left-wing paper's former political editor Michael White suggested MPs caught up in the Westminster sex scandal could be targets for young, female journalists.
He said: 'The power doesn't all lie on one side. Clever, attractive young women looking for stories, they can play the power game to poor old ugly backbenchers.'"
In these days of Tinder and internet dating, it's not as though there's any need or it!
I am going to sound so old-fashioned I know. But internet dating sounds so sad. Whatever happened to serendipity, falling for someone unexpected, rather than just looking for someone who matches your predetermined list of desirable characteristics?
Without wishing to go all @SeanT on you all, I have had a number of significant men in my life and none of them would have fitted some predetermined template. And all were lovely in different ways. It is the process of getting to know people and exploration and not writing people off at first glance that makes courtship such fun.
As I say, hopelessly old-fashioned.......
I know a couple who met online, not through Internet dating and looking for a partner, but because they played an online roLe playing game together, got to know each other a bit for real, eventually met in person after some transatlantic flights, and are now married with kids.
In these days of Tinder and internet dating, it's not as though there's any need to hit on one's work colleagues in the search for a partner / quick fling. Best to be polite and friendly at work and save the naughty stuff for those who are definitely up for it!
I am going to sound so old-fashioned I know. But internet dating sounds so sad. Whatever happened to serendipity, falling for someone unexpected, rather than just looking for someone who matches your predetermined list of desirable characteristics?
Without wishing to go all @SeanT on you all, I have had a number of significant men in my life and none of them would have fitted some predetermined template. And all were lovely in different ways. It is the process of getting to know people and exploration and not writing people off at first glance that makes courtship such fun.
As I say, hopelessly old-fashioned.......
It's not sad at all. As it happens, after being widowed many years ago, I met a wonderful woman a few months ago through internet dating who I'm pretty sure will remain my new long-term partner. We make each other very happy.
The old-fashioned way would have been for me to have become a lonely old man while she continued to live in misery with her oaf of an ex-husband. No thanks.
I do wonder if "Francis Urhquat" who posts here will feel the need for a new username?
Its all a bit awkward isn't it...
Don’t change it to Jimmy Savile or Bill Cosby.
Technically it is Frank Underwood not Francis Urquhart who has been a bad boy.
As you say, House of Cards is definitely finished now. Unless they try some weird rewrite where Frank gets assassinated in the first 30s of the new season.
I think naming oneself after any politician or hollywood celeb at the moment is rather a dangerous move.
Online dating certainly is an interesting place...
Jihadi couple who 'bonded over their extreme beliefs on SingleMuslim.com dating site were plotting mother of satan attack and swapped tips on making deadly toxin ricin', court is told
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
I have no problem with that approach. Most of the women said "no" and he moved on. One said "yes" so both of them were happy.
The approach may have been boorish, but "No" meant "No" and he understood that. That is what really matters. (I am assuming that since he was playing a numbers game, he had to move along fairly quickly and had no time to pester the woman into changing her mind)
Yes, nothing really wrong with it, consensual although some of the ladies were undoubtedly rather worse for wear, but I was just completely shocked by the whole idea of such a direct approach - and the willingness of some women to engage with that approach! It won’t surprise you to know that the young man concerned now works in sales.
In these days of Tinder and internet dating, it's not as though there's any need to hit on one's work colleagues in the search for a partner / quick fling. Best to be polite and friendly at work and save the naughty stuff for those who are definitely up for it!
I am going to sound so old-fashioned I know. But internet dating sounds so sad. Whatever happened to serendipity, falling for someone unexpected, rather than just looking for someone who matches your predetermined list of desirable characteristics?
Without wishing to go all @SeanT on you all, I have had a number of significant men in my life and none of them would have fitted some predetermined template. And all were lovely in different ways. It is the process of getting to know people and exploration and not writing people off at first glance that makes courtship such fun.
As I say, hopelessly old-fashioned.......
It's not sad at all. As it happens, after being widowed many years ago, I met a wonderful woman a few months ago through internet dating who I'm pretty sure will remain my new long-term partner. We make each other very happy.
The old-fashioned way would have been for me to have become a lonely old man while she continued to live in misery with her oaf of an ex-husband. No thanks.
I'm very pleased for you.
I have been married for years so my knowledge of today's dating scene is, well, very out of date.
Comments
We have had one really serious allegation, by Bex Bailey. The rest is a Whitehall farce.
O'Mara has been suspended for gross 'dickheadery' and so should Fallon!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/02/prince-william-warns-many-people-world/
"Prince William warns that there are too many people in the world"
Plenty of men are able to be warm, charming, friendly and funny without making revolting remarks about genitals or sex or leering like dirty old men.
So many variables in play it's impossible to predict here. But the basic template is to tell voters who's core socioeconomic conditions have stayed the same/gotten worse that Brexit was Stolen/Didn't really happen and just reset the whole thing. The Daily Express has moved onto foreign aid. Of course if we don't externalise it we internalise. Why we see mini flare ups like the Universities Brexit fauxtrage.
Carwyn Jones in Wales has astutely and publicly warned it'll just reattach it's self to Westminster. Given Wales' resistance to date to electoral nationalism I think that's significant. Look at the extraordinary movement in the Northern Ireland polling on the unity question.
Good manners, charm, charisma and a healthy does of respect will go a long way towards winning anyone over. "Cor! You've got nice tits!!" and other variations on that theme are unlikely to work no matter how many times they are employed.
Also, prioritise animals over humans.
Who the hell is advising these people?
"Milady, thy bosom heaves with ample magnificence. Carest thou to partake of libation in my company?"
To take an example of someone where it all fell apart, Profumo a) got mixed up with a young lady who was, allegedly anyway, also bestowing her favours on a Russian diplomat and b) lied about it.
How about "Hello, can I buy you a drink?"
"Why can't women just do what I think they should, and everyone will be happy"
[I'm obviously being a bit silly, but the way things are going...].
Plus shocking use of apostrophe.
And the question does seem to lead people towards a certain response.
Not impressed with ICM on this
Nonetheless, we are people, not prizes nor targets. We are more than our boobs and bums and legs and bodies.
So if a strange bloke offered to buy me a drink, I might say "Yes" or "No" or "Why?". I would not be reporting him to the police.
Look at JR-M: exquisitely mannered, almost to the point of parody. And has won kudos from his opponents for just that.
Manners maketh man. Isn't that what public schools are supposed to teach their pupils?
All this wailing that men won't dare approach women if they can't be oafish is pathetic. A smile, kindness, good manners, some humour that isn't culled from the pages of Viz, some interest in the woman herself. It's not difficult.
Perhaps I can add young male politicians and would-be politicians to the list of people needing to learn how to behave? They seem to be an ideal target for culture change, having so much in common with some of the pillocks infesting the City.
Marf just disappeared into the back of a limousine headed for Millbank where she is due to appear on Daily Politics. In her absence I can say on her behalf that she appreciates comments like yours which give her great encouragement to persist in a difficult and often hostile environment.
I agree, SeanF, that the best of her work compares favorably with the general standard of political cartooning in this country. I particularly like the architectural detail you often see in her work. This one is a good example.
The discussion on Daily Politics at 12.40pm will I think be centred around the theme of women cartoonists - why there are so few, and in what ways they depict the world differently from their male counterparts. Again, today's cartoon is a good illustration. I do hope you and Fox can tune in.
Warm regards
PtP
What’s the matter with the apostrophe? I’ll admit to a spelling mistake though!
It was the schools standard requirement in detention
Kevin Spacey is facing new allegations of sexual assault and harassment from current and former members of the House of Cards crew.
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/house-of-cards/news/a842153/house-of-cards-kevin-spacey-accused-of-sexual-harassment-and-assault-by-crew/
I will probably regret this. But what is "roofied?"
The standard "fix" for that is to go to the bar with him, let him buy it and take it direct from the bar staff.
One young relative of mine, when he was a first year at uni a decade or so ago, used to use the chatup line - and I quote “Do you want to f*** tonight?” on ladies in nightclubs half an hour before closing time. He used to get hundreds of slaps round the face but never left on his own! He said it was just a numbers game.
Me too. And it's because at their root good matters are about kindness and a sensitivity to others. And these are very attractive qualities.
Would love to take a look at it, if you are happy to reveal it - or PM me.
Many of the complaints from men about having to worry about the niceties of social interactions - which they've happily ignored in the past - rather ignore the fact that women have had to worry about exactly those things, and for far more pressing reasons, basically forever.
Last five minutes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09bxkhm#play
I prefer the radio. Neil McGregor's latest series "Living With the Gods" is superb.
The approach may have been boorish, but "No" meant "No" and he understood that. That is what really matters. (I am assuming that since he was playing a numbers game, he had to move along fairly quickly and had no time to pester the woman into changing her mind)
Without wishing to go all @SeanT on you all, I have had a number of significant men in my life and none of them would have fitted some predetermined template. And all were lovely in different ways. It is the process of getting to know people and exploration and not writing people off at first glance that makes courtship such fun.
As I say, hopelessly old-fashioned.......
"I do beseech you – chiefly that I may set it in my prayers – what is your name?" for example...
perhaps a little florid though.
Incidentally, further to our exchange a couple of days ago, I forgot to post that you were entirely correct that 'tinker' is not a racial slur:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker
Being crippling shy is difficult, but even there perseverance can win out even with being so hesitant to approach.
Luckily in the US House of Cards, it is Frank Underwood.
For the "rest" of us, I suppose it depends upon how much you want or need to have sex.
Whilst I do not rate Mogg as a politician, I do not doubt his manners.
That was kind of new and old fashioned.
Speaking on Radio 4 yesterday, the left-wing paper's former political editor Michael White suggested MPs caught up in the Westminster sex scandal could be targets for young, female journalists.
He said: 'The power doesn't all lie on one side. Clever, attractive young women looking for stories, they can play the power game to poor old ugly backbenchers.'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5046065/Ex-Guardian-writer-says-female-journalists-predators.html
Technically it is Frank Underwood not Francis Urquhart who has been a bad boy.
The old-fashioned way would have been for me to have become a lonely old man while she continued to live in misery with her oaf of an ex-husband. No thanks.
I think naming oneself after any politician or hollywood celeb at the moment is rather a dangerous move.
Jihadi couple who 'bonded over their extreme beliefs on SingleMuslim.com dating site were plotting mother of satan attack and swapped tips on making deadly toxin ricin', court is told
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5031565/Pharmacist-gave-advice-making-bombs-jihadist.html
CON: 38% (-2)
LDEM: 9% (-)
UKIP: 4% (+2)
Gen: 3% (+2)
via @IpsosMORI, Oct 27 - Nov 01
I have been married for years so my knowledge of today's dating scene is, well, very out of date.