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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “TEN COMMANDMENTS” poll finds LD voters most relaxed about mur

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  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,282
    Day by day, Project Fear turns out to have been Project Reality.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Doethur, that's amusingly poor English.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Borough, both campaigns were atrocious. We do have about a million more people in work than Project Fear predicted, though.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,313

    Mr. Doethur, that's amusingly poor English.

    Reminiscent of the old classic, 'Enraged cow injures farmer with axe.'
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, that's amusingly poor English.

    Reminiscent of the old classic, 'Enraged cow injures farmer with axe.'
    My favourite is

    'Man shoots elephant wearing his pyjamas'
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    Anorak said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    Sabah Khan's internet search history included "venomous snakes for sale", "how to poison someone" and "16 steps to kill someone and not get caught".
    She had also been in touch with a "black magic priest" in Pakistan who she had paid £5,000 to kill her sister "by remote control".


    The mind boggles.
    16 is a very specific number.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,282

    Mr. Borough, both campaigns were atrocious. We do have about a million more people in work than Project Fear predicted, though.

    Project Fear turns out to have been a speeded-up version of Project Reality :-)
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,313

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, that's amusingly poor English.

    Reminiscent of the old classic, 'Enraged cow injures farmer with axe.'
    My favourite is

    'Man shoots elephant wearing his pyjamas'
    :hushed: Even if it was quite a small elephant, he must have been a very large gentleman!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,313

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Eagles, sounds like that pyjama-purloining pachyderm had it coming, if you ask me.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, that's amusingly poor English.

    Reminiscent of the old classic, 'Enraged cow injures farmer with axe.'
    My favourite is

    'Man shoots elephant wearing his pyjamas'
    :hushed: Even if it was quite a small elephant, he must have been a very large gentleman!
    Back in the 90s. when I was at school, we had a trip to the Daily Telegraph, and our guide showed us his favourite headlines from the archives, the one that stuck in the mind was

    'At least twenty men sodomised by evil Banana'

    Turns out the Banana was Canaan Banana, former President of Zimbabwe.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan_Banana#Sodomy_charges_and_imprisonment
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
    How so? The sentence is grammatically ambiguous in that the "her" could refer to either woman, but it is clear from the context which woman is being referred to.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,313

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
    How so? The sentence is grammatically ambiguous in that the "her" could refer to either woman, but it is clear from the context which woman is being referred to.
    No - the her refers to the subject of the sentence, which the victim isn't. It's doubly silly (literally) as they had already said she had murdered her sister.
  • Options
    On topic but only just...

    I had never noticed before the difference in the ten commandments between the King James version - which of course is used here - and the Catholic version which I learned as a kid at convent school.

    Ignoring the differences of language to describe basically the same thing there are two major changes.

    The First commandment which in the Catholic version is a single commandment (First I am the Lord thy God thou shalt not have false gods before me and though shalt not worship idols), in the King James version is split into two.

    Since this would give 11 commandments, the 9th and 10th commandments have been combined into one. In the Catholic version 9 is Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife (as separate from the 6th commandment about adultery) whilst the 10th is thou shalt not covet thy neighbours ass/ox/general duty free goods. These are cobined in the KJ version into one all encompassing ban on coveting anything.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,412
    edited October 2017
    Just remembered this misleading headline.

    Fearless koala chases South Australian woman on quad bike

    Turns out it was the woman on the quad bike, not the koala.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-16/koala-chases-south-australian-woman-on-quad-bike/6701210
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Scott_P said:
    I'm rather puzzled by that. How would the presence or absence of a deal between the UK and the EU make any difference to trading with China, once we are no longer members of the EU? Surely it's China we should be talking to, in order to ensure no disruption to our trade and their medical supplies?
    Well for a start, will China recognise a UK QP for signing off the release of the finished product? The EMA that currently regulates that kind of thing is currently based in London - very advantageously for the UK pharma business as it happens - will be relocating. We don't know where yet. We might hope that the UK's issues will stay on the top of their agenda but we can hardly expect them to. No doubt it will all get sorted out but the plain fact is nobody knows what is going to happen.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,841

    On topic but only just...

    I had never noticed before the difference in the ten commandments between the King James version - which of course is used here - and the Catholic version which I learned as a kid at convent school.

    Ignoring the differences of language to describe basically the same thing there are two major changes.

    The First commandment which in the Catholic version is a single commandment (First I am the Lord thy God thou shalt not have false gods before me and though shalt not worship idols), in the King James version is split into two.

    Since this would give 11 commandments, the 9th and 10th commandments have been combined into one. In the Catholic version 9 is Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife (as separate from the 6th commandment about adultery) whilst the 10th is thou shalt not covet thy neighbours ass/ox/general duty free goods. These are cobined in the KJ version into one all encompassing ban on coveting anything.

    You have just described the English Reformation.
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    Scott_P said:
    I'm rather puzzled by that. How would the presence or absence of a deal between the UK and the EU make any difference to trading with China, once we are no longer members of the EU? Surely it's China we should be talking to, in order to ensure no disruption to our trade and their medical supplies?
    Or German news[papers are no more reliable and informed than their British counterparts.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,841

    Scott_P said:
    I'm rather puzzled by that. How would the presence or absence of a deal between the UK and the EU make any difference to trading with China, once we are no longer members of the EU? Surely it's China we should be talking to, in order to ensure no disruption to our trade and their medical supplies?
    Yep, it doesn't seem right, does it? And yet...and yet...here is (apparently) someone very senior, let's call him an expert, at AstraZeneca saying it is so.

    Problems...problems...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    Yep, it doesn't seem right, does it? And yet...and yet...here is (apparently) someone very senior, let's call him an expert, at AstraZeneca saying it is so.

    Problems...problems...

    And once again Brexiteers know better than the experts...
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    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,005
    edited October 2017
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
    How so? The sentence is grammatically ambiguous in that the "her" could refer to either woman, but it is clear from the context which woman is being referred to.
    No - the her refers to the subject of the sentence, which the victim isn't. It's doubly silly (literally) as they had already said she had murdered her sister.
    No - the "her" could just as well refer to the object of the main clause. If, for example, the sentence had read, "A woman who murdered her brother while having an affair with his wife has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years," there would have been no problem, even though it is grammatically identical.

    Interestingly, this ambiguity wouldn't arise in German, which uses different pronouns to refer to the subject or object of the main clause.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,313

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, that's amusingly poor English.

    Reminiscent of the old classic, 'Enraged cow injures farmer with axe.'
    My favourite is

    'Man shoots elephant wearing his pyjamas'
    :hushed: Even if it was quite a small elephant, he must have been a very large gentleman!
    Back in the 90s. when I was at school, we had a trip to the Daily Telegraph, and our guide showed us his favourite headlines from the archives, the one that stuck in the mind was

    'At least twenty men sodomised by evil Banana'

    Turns out the Banana was Canaan Banana, former President of Zimbabwe.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan_Banana#Sodomy_charges_and_imprisonment
    That was a free hit for headline writers.

    Some more here:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/zimbabwe-s-banana-left-legacy-of-disgrace-1.392631

    Mind you, I can't agree with this statement:

    the unbiased observer might well, like Mr Mugabe, have been struck by the British cabinet's lack of visible heterosexuals.

    A cabinet with Robin Cook in it (and later and even more amazingly, John Prescott) was hardly without visible heterosexuals. Indeed, we were all wondering what the hell women saw in them!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,313

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
    How so? The sentence is grammatically ambiguous in that the "her" could refer to either woman, but it is clear from the context which woman is being referred to.
    No - the her refers to the subject of the sentence, which the victim isn't. It's doubly silly (literally) as they had already said she had murdered her sister.
    No - the "her" could just as well refer to the object of the main clause. If, for example, the sentence had read, "A woman who murdered her brother while having an affair with his wife has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years," there would have been no problem, even though it is grammatically identical.

    Interestingly, this ambiguity wouldn't arise in German, which uses different pronouns to refer to the subject or object of the main clause.
    It could have done, but according to strict rules of grammar it doesn't.

    Wouldn't have arisen in English if they had thought to check their grammar!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    I was hearing yesterday that Trump is making progress with his tax code changes in the House which will allow a tax holiday of sorts which will in turn allow the tech giants to bring $1trn+ back to the US. If he delivers that and if the conditionality requires that money to be invested in the US writing Trump off in 2020 may well prove an expensive mistake.

    The last person to implement a "tax holiday" for firms who brought back money from abroad was Clinton. Firms who brought back money were less likely to invest in the US, than those who did not. And pretty much all the repatriated money was used for share buybacks rather than investment.

    Why?

    1. CEOs of firms are rational and have short time horizons. If you give them $100, they'll buy back $100 of stock so as to benefit from the uplift in share price.

    2. The government is sending the message that it's OK to invest abroad, because at some point there will be a tax holiday and you can bring it home.

    (There's a bigger issue too. Real interest rates are close to zero for investment grade companies in the US already. If you want to build a factory in Dayton, Ohio, then it's not lack of capital that's constraining you - it's the fact that your return will be much higher if you build it somewhere else.)
    Which is why the tax changes need to be permanent rather than temporary.
    From my limited understanding of capital investment in the US, other things being equal they’ll build the factory in whichever county or state gives them the biggest bribe corporate tax break.

    That said, if $2trn comes back onshore, it’ll get spent somewhere, and it will look good on Trump.
    There was an article today saying they are moving away from global taxation. That's *much* bigger news
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021
    So most of the ten commandments are still considered important principles to live by thousands of years since they were first written. Though the fact about 2% do not think not committing murder is not an important principle to live by is a little concerning.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,280
    edited October 2017
    FPT.
    TOPPING said:


    Makes no sense. We are unlikely to know the terms for post-Brexit (ie post-transition deal) until some time into the transition deal. After that, I can only see there being another transition deal to implement the new deal. The government inaccurately calls the transition deal (actually a moratorium) an implementation deal and then in the same breath says nothing will change for two years.

    So which is it?

    Which brings us back to the views of Remainers. I think it unlikely that in April 2021 we will be in any position to step into a new relationship with the EU (or anyone else) because that would be a cliff-edge. So there will be a *********ion period. And during this *******ion period, we will have a GE and the new govt might decide that it will maintain that status until further notice. Yes we will be out of the EU, but we will look, feel, and indeed quack like we are still in.

    Apologies for not replying sooner, I was working.

    The point I am making is that it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Legally unless we ask for and get a formal extension agreed by all 27 EU members, in March 2019 we are out of the EU. You can spend all day saying it would make no sense but that is the position under Article 50 and 'sense' has nothing to do with it one way or another. We will no longer be a part of the EU legally, will no longer have representation on any of its bodies and will no longer be included in any new treaties or agreements.

  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    So most of the ten commandments are still considered important principles to live by thousands of years since they were first written. Though the fact about 2% do not think not committing murder is not an important principle to live by is a little concerning.

    Or we could listen to the pollsters.

    https://twitter.com/LaurenceThinks/status/923123500071772162
    https://twitter.com/AGKD123/status/923125219979644929
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited October 2017
    HYUFD said:

    So most of the ten commandments are still considered important principles to live by thousands of years since they were first written. Though the fact about 2% do not think not committing murder is not an important principle to live by is a little concerning.

    The baseline here is the 4% who said yes to "Have you ever been decapitated?" So in fact it's good news - even 50% of the demented think murder is a no no.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,089
    edited October 2017

    Scott_P said:
    I'm rather puzzled by that. How would the presence or absence of a deal between the UK and the EU make any difference to trading with China, once we are no longer members of the EU? Surely it's China we should be talking to, in order to ensure no disruption to our trade and their medical supplies?
    The linked article explains the import of pharmaceuticals into China is controlled through a cooperation agreement with the EU, presumably covering certification. If the UK doesn't remain part of that agreement there is no mechanism to import those drugs. The implication, I think, is that China is unlikely to be in a hurry to replicate those arrangements in a different agreement. They can get what they need from the EU, which is a known entity that they trust because they have worked with them for years.

    Edit. This is an issue for a lot of third country agreements. The EU system is important to those third countries.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
    How so? The sentence is grammatically ambiguous in that the "her" could refer to either woman, but it is clear from the context which woman is being referred to.
    No - the her refers to the subject of the sentence, which the victim isn't. It's doubly silly (literally) as they had already said she had murdered her sister.
    No - the "her" could just as well refer to the object of the main clause. If, for example, the sentence had read, "A woman who murdered her brother while having an affair with his wife has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years," there would have been no problem, even though it is grammatically identical.

    Interestingly, this ambiguity wouldn't arise in German, which uses different pronouns to refer to the subject or object of the main clause.
    It could have done, but according to strict rules of grammar it doesn't.

    Wouldn't have arisen in English if they had thought to check their grammar!
    I'm not aware of any rule of grammar that states that the pronouns used in subordinate clauses must only apply to the subject of the main clause. Perhaps you could point it out to me.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Give us your money or it's a "horror scenario" is not constructive
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,841

    FPT.

    TOPPING said:


    Makes no sense. We are unlikely to know the terms for post-Brexit (ie post-transition deal) until some time into the transition deal. After that, I can only see there being another transition deal to implement the new deal. The government inaccurately calls the transition deal (actually a moratorium) an implementation deal and then in the same breath says nothing will change for two years.

    So which is it?

    Which brings us back to the views of Remainers. I think it unlikely that in April 2021 we will be in any position to step into a new relationship with the EU (or anyone else) because that would be a cliff-edge. So there will be a *********ion period. And during this *******ion period, we will have a GE and the new govt might decide that it will maintain that status until further notice. Yes we will be out of the EU, but we will look, feel, and indeed quack like we are still in.

    Apologies for not replying sooner, I was working.

    The point I am making is that it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Legally unless we ask for and get a formal extension agreed by all 27 EU members, in March 2019 we are out of the EU. You can spend all day saying it would make no sense but that is the position under Article 50 and 'sense' has nothing to do with it one way or another. We will no longer be a part of the EU legally, will no longer have representation on any of its bodies and will no longer be included in any new treaties or agreements.

    Unless...the government of the day signs up to just about everything we thought we had left. The fact that technically we will have left is as you say unalterable. The practicality of what that would mean if, say, Labour decided to appoint the ECJ as arbiter over the redness of our domestically-produced Worcester Pearmains, means that we would de facto remain members, small "m".
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,282
    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    So most of the ten commandments are still considered important principles to live by thousands of years since they were first written. Though the fact about 2% do not think not committing murder is not an important principle to live by is a little concerning.

    The baseline here is the 4% who said yes to "Have you ever been decapitated?" So in fact it's good news - even 50% of the demented think murder is a no no.
    There is a language issue with that base question. 'Decapitated' is a difficult word. I doubt it would pass the Sun reader test.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021
    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, that's amusingly poor English.

    Reminiscent of the old classic, 'Enraged cow injures farmer with axe.'
    My favourite is

    'Man shoots elephant wearing his pyjamas'
    :hushed: Even if it was quite a small elephant, he must have been a very large gentleman!
    Back in the 90s. when I was at school, we had a trip to the Daily Telegraph, and our guide showed us his favourite headlines from the archives, the one that stuck in the mind was

    'At least twenty men sodomised by evil Banana'

    Turns out the Banana was Canaan Banana, former President of Zimbabwe.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan_Banana#Sodomy_charges_and_imprisonment
    I did one of those trips - they showed me the file copy obituary of my (very much alive) grandfather...,
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yep, it doesn't seem right, does it? And yet...and yet...here is (apparently) someone very senior, let's call him an expert, at AstraZeneca saying it is so.

    Problems...problems...

    And once again Brexiteers know better than the experts...
    Here we go again - you are relying on what shouty Islam said that Gove said, not what Gove actually said, so you are either very, very lazy or very, very dishonest. And what Gove said was about experts with acronyms who think they know best but have been proven wrong in the past. In the week after the ONS had a little think and found that its numbers were out by half a trillion quid (not million, not billion, but trillion) his point looks a bit reasonable to me.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,412
    edited October 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    But as you have patently shown, you know nothing about a Canada style deal.

    Full disclosure. I co-wrote a report about why a Canada style deal is bad for the biggest tax contributing industry in the country.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    This appears to be a daisy chain of anti-Zionist victims.
    Jacqueline Walker has "form" in attributing all the bad stuff which happens to her and like-minded folk to the Jews.

    It's depressing rather than unspoofable. It's because people like this have a purchase on the Labour Party that we had, at its recent conference, the spectacle of people claiming that they ought to debate whether the Holocaust happened. When sections of the Labour Party think that denying facts is OK and behave like the David Irving Appreciation Society or the BNP, it is no laughing matter.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    So most of the ten commandments are still considered important principles to live by thousands of years since they were first written. Though the fact about 2% do not think not committing murder is not an important principle to live by is a little concerning.

    The baseline here is the 4% who said yes to "Have you ever been decapitated?" So in fact it's good news - even 50% of the demented think murder is a no no.
    There is a language issue with that base question. 'Decapitated' is a difficult word. I doubt it would pass the Sun reader test.
    yes. In fact I believe the question was only asked because of a typo.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021
    edited October 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    So most of the ten commandments are still considered important principles to live by thousands of years since they were first written. Though the fact about 2% do not think not committing murder is not an important principle to live by is a little concerning.

    The baseline here is the 4% who said yes to "Have you ever been decapitated?" So in fact it's good news - even 50% of the demented think murder is a no no.
    Perhaps though there are probably a small number of Patrick Bateman ultra libertarian types around who literally want to be free to do anything they like with no laws at all.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,282
    Cyclefree said:

    This appears to be a daisy chain of anti-Zionist victims.
    Jacqueline Walker has "form" in attributing all the bad stuff which happens to her and like-minded folk to the Jews.

    It's depressing rather than unspoofable. It's because people like this have a purchase on the Labour Party that we had, at its recent conference, the spectacle of people claiming that they ought to debate whether the Holocaust happened. When sections of the Labour Party think that denying facts is OK and behave like the David Irving Appreciation Society or the BNP, it is no laughing matter.
    ...and


    "Boundary review or not, the deselection of moderates is on its way."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/26/dont-fooled-labours-seeming-unity-sooner-later-moderates-will/
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,841
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yep, it doesn't seem right, does it? And yet...and yet...here is (apparently) someone very senior, let's call him an expert, at AstraZeneca saying it is so.

    Problems...problems...

    And once again Brexiteers know better than the experts...
    Here we go again - you are relying on what shouty Islam said that Gove said, not what Gove actually said, so you are either very, very lazy or very, very dishonest. And what Gove said was about experts with acronyms who think they know best but have been proven wrong in the past. In the week after the ONS had a little think and found that its numbers were out by half a trillion quid (not million, not billion, but trillion) his point looks a bit reasonable to me.
    You would have quite a task on your hands if you were to explain the pronouncements of every politician in terms of what they meant to say, what they actually said, and what the dog whistle of what they said has come to mean to people.

    He is a politician and should have known, indeed he no doubt expected his comments to be interpreted as they have since been.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,313

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm not sure whether this is a comment on the adultery statistics at the top or merely a reflection of the abysmal standard of BBC journalists these days:

    A woman who murdered her sister while having an affair with her husband has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years.

    I assume they mean that she was having an affair with her brother-in-law rather than her husband, although it sounds intriguing that you can have an affair with your own husband.

    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.
    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
    How so? The sentence is grammatically ambiguous in that the "her" could refer to either woman, but it is clear from the context which woman is being referred to.
    No - the her refers to the subject of the sentence, which the victim isn't. It's doubly silly (literally) as they had already said she had murdered her sister.
    No - the "her" could just as well refer to the object of the main clause. If, for example, the sentence had read, "A woman who murdered her brother while having an affair with his wife has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years," there would have been no problem, even though it is grammatically identical.

    Interestingly, this ambiguity wouldn't arise in German, which uses different pronouns to refer to the subject or object of the main clause.
    It could have done, but according to strict rules of grammar it doesn't.

    Wouldn't have arisen in English if they had thought to check their grammar!
    I'm not aware of any rule of grammar that states that the pronouns used in subordinate clauses must only apply to the subject of the main clause. Perhaps you could point it out to me.
    By using 'her' and using it again without changing the subject of the sentence, they made it refer to the subject as it stood.

    So 'her' sister and 'her' husband refer to the sister and husband of the subject, in this case, the murderess.

    You are right that is not what they meant. That's not the point though. It's what they said. People often say what they don't mean.

    Anyway, I have more paperwork to do (aargh). Have a good evening.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,089
    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.

    Does the Canada deal allow them to export drugs to China?

    Oh...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021

    HYUFD said:

    So most of the ten commandments are still considered important principles to live by thousands of years since they were first written. Though the fact about 2% do not think not committing murder is not an important principle to live by is a little concerning.

    Or we could listen to the pollsters.

    https://twitter.com/LaurenceThinks/status/923123500071772162
    https://twitter.com/AGKD123/status/923125219979644929
    Also true.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,089
    The survey is a bit of fun. I think it's possible to (mis)interpret the questions as this is what people think, not necessarily what I think.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,089

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    But as you have patently shown, you know nothing about a Canada style deal.

    Full disclosure. I co-wrote a report about why a Canada style deal is bad for the biggest tax contributing industry in the country.
    The man who negotiated CETA for Canada thought Britain would be bonkers to go down that route.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Here we go again - you are relying on what shouty Islam said that Gove said, not what Gove actually said

    Calm down dear.

    I never mentioned Gove.

    In this case, the head of a pharmaceutical manufacturer, who might be considered an expert in that field, made a statement that is disputed by Brexiteers.

    Just like the meaning of Article 50 is confidently expounded by the Brexiteers in contradiction to the guy that wrote it.

    They know better than experts.

    Those are the facts, and they are not in dispute...
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,057
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    And a deal which requires a huge Brexit bill to be agreed years before it is even negotiated.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,089
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    If you lose your job because we are no longer trading as much as we did before, or your welfare because there isn't the taxbase any more, will you care two hoots about having a points system?
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    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    It seems quite clear to me that the second "her" refers to the sister who was murdered. If they had used brother-in-law, they could have been referring to the husband of a different sister.

    Yes, of course it does mean that, the only drawback is that isn't what it actually says.
    How so? The sentence is grammatically ambiguous in that the "her" could refer to either woman, but it is clear from the context which woman is being referred to.
    No - the her refers to the subject of the sentence, which the victim isn't. It's doubly silly (literally) as they had already said she had murdered her sister.
    No - the "her" could just as well refer to the object of the main clause. If, for example, the sentence had read, "A woman who murdered her brother while having an affair with his wife has been jailed for a minimum of 22 years," there would have been no problem, even though it is grammatically identical.

    Interestingly, this ambiguity wouldn't arise in German, which uses different pronouns to refer to the subject or object of the main clause.
    It could have done, but according to strict rules of grammar it doesn't.

    Wouldn't have arisen in English if they had thought to check their grammar!
    I'm not aware of any rule of grammar that states that the pronouns used in subordinate clauses must only apply to the subject of the main clause. Perhaps you could point it out to me.
    By using 'her' and using it again without changing the subject of the sentence, they made it refer to the subject as it stood.

    So 'her' sister and 'her' husband refer to the sister and husband of the subject, in this case, the murderess.

    You are right that is not what they meant. That's not the point though. It's what they said. People often say what they don't mean.

    Anyway, I have more paperwork to do (aargh). Have a good evening.
    No, I'm pretty sure there's no such rule (though I am open to evidence to the contrary). I can't see any reason at all why the "her" could not refer to either woman. The sentence is grammatically correct, but ambiguous. Enjoy your paperwork.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Can only be a matter of time before Remainers turn on the EU for contemplating a deal that works for both sides rather than a punishment beating...

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,282
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    If you lose your job because we are no longer trading as much as we did before, or your welfare because there isn't the taxbase any more, will you care two hoots about having a points system?
    It seems in the Welsh valleys, according to the item posted earlier, the answer is 'yes': they want control of immigration even if it reduces their local economy (which some of them say can't actually get any worse).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    Charles said:

    Give us your money or it's a "horror scenario" is not constructive
    No kidding. The pretence only one side is being reasonable, no matter what they do, is utterly farcical.
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    The linked article explains the import of pharmaceuticals into China is controlled through a cooperation agreement with the EU, presumably covering certification. If the UK doesn't remain part of that agreement there is no mechanism to import those drugs. The implication, I think, is that China is unlikely to be in a hurry to replicate those arrangements in a different agreement. They can get what they need from the EU, which is a known entity that they trust because they have worked with them for years.

    Edit. This is an issue for a lot of third country agreements. The EU system is important to those third countries.

    Yes, I understand that. However, it remains the case that, irrespective of the content of any deal with the EU, the people we need to talk to about continuity of trade are the Chinese, since it's their decision as to whether or not to recognise the regulatory framework which we will move to after Brexit.

    In the particular case of pharmaceuticals, I'd be surprised if the Chinese wanted to suddenly cut themselves off from a major source of treatments.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,057
    TGOHF said:

    Can only be a matter of time before Remainers turn on the EU for contemplating a deal that works for both sides rather than a punishment beating...

    Are you anticipating the EU will 'go wobbly'?
  • Options
    TGOHF said:

    Can only be a matter of time before Remainers turn on the EU for contemplating a deal that works for both sides rather than a punishment beating...

    The amount of straw you've used in that man is a real fire hazard.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    Terrible but not surprising. With things like predetermining investigations on the basis it is more important to believe any allegation than investigate properly being defended by many police, some fundamentally seem to not be principally concerned with fairness or justice.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021
    edited October 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    But as you have patently shown, you know nothing about a Canada style deal.

    Full disclosure. I co-wrote a report about why a Canada style deal is bad for the biggest tax contributing industry in the country.
    The only alternatives to a Canada style deal are full hard Brexit and no deal at all, which really could be catastrophic or the single market and full uncontrolled free movement or staying in the EU, which could well lead to civil unrest in working class areas of the north and midlands which voted Leave to control immigration as well as rocket UKIP up the polls

    So while a Canada deal is not perfect for now it is the best alternative there is.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. kle4, indeed. It seems the idea justice is for everyone has fallen, for some, by the wayside.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,057

    Yes, I understand that. However, it remains the case that, irrespective of the content of any deal with the EU, the people we need to talk to about continuity of trade are the Chinese, since it's their decision as to whether or not to recognise the regulatory framework which we will move to after Brexit.

    In the particular case of pharmaceuticals, I'd be surprised if the Chinese wanted to suddenly cut themselves off from a major source of treatments.

    We can always send Boris Johnson over to do a quiet deal. I'm sure he will be able to broach the subject of imports of British drugs without causing any diplomatic incidents...
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    But as you have patently shown, you know nothing about a Canada style deal.

    Full disclosure. I co-wrote a report about why a Canada style deal is bad for the biggest tax contributing industry in the country.
    The only alternatives to a Canada style deal are full hard Brexit and no deal at all, which really could be catastrophic or the single market and full uncontrolled free movement or staying in the EU, which could well lead to civil unrest in working class areas of the north and midlands which voted Leave to control immigration as well as rocket UKIP up the polls

    So while a Canada deal is not perfect for now it is the best alternative there is.
    No it isn't.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2017
    HYUFD said:

    The only alternatives to a Canada style deal are dull hard Brexit and no deal at all, which really could be catastrophic or the single market and full uncontrolled free movement or staying in the EU, which could well lead to civil unrest in working class areas of the north and midlands which voted Leave to control immigration as well as rocket UKIP up the polls.

    So while a Canada deal is not perfect for now it is the best alternative there is.

    I think that's broadly right, but we should be able to do a little better than that, simply because so many EU companies rely on the City for fund raising, currency hedging and derivative contracts.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    And a deal which requires a huge Brexit bill to be agreed years before it is even negotiated.
    We would have to pay the EU a large sum for years to come even staying in the EU or single market though I agree it will not be an easy sell but easier than the alternatives.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Can only be a matter of time before Remainers turn on the EU for contemplating a deal that works for both sides rather than a punishment beating...

    Are you anticipating the EU will 'go wobbly'?
    No - but as much as you'd wish them to they aren't wielding a baseball bat covered with barbed wire with the aim of reversing Brexit.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,057
    @HYUFD - A Canada deal would not be 'for now'. It would be a negotiating objective for a deal that would remain to be done after we leave and enter into transition.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    If you lose your job because we are no longer trading as much as we did before, or your welfare because there isn't the taxbase any more, will you care two hoots about having a points system?
    Yet more diehard Remainer fanaticism on any form of compromise, a Canada style FTA is not going to lead to a Great Depression.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    From the outside it seems like the Catalonian separatists feel a bit trapped - Madrid isn't budging, but they don't seem keen to take any more provocative steps.
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    And a deal which requires a huge Brexit bill to be agreed years before it is even negotiated.
    Yes, and that will be the showstopper. The UK public will never agree to the UK paying a huge bill in return for a 'promise' of a future FTA. The moment it becomes clear that the EU are not offering a trade deal in return for money, the whole thing will fall apart.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited October 2017

    TGOHF said:

    Can only be a matter of time before Remainers turn on the EU for contemplating a deal that works for both sides rather than a punishment beating...

    The amount of straw you've used in that man is a real fire hazard.
    It's coming though - weeks if not days.

    Also - will suit Davis for the deal to be agreed at the last minute - less chance of Westminster voting it down.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021
    edited October 2017

    @HYUFD - A Canada deal would not be 'for now'. It would be a negotiating objective for a deal that would remain to be done after we leave and enter into transition.

    It would be a deal for a decade or more post transition and above all a deal which respects the Leave vote to end free movement.

    50% think a Canada deal would be good for the UK compared to 35% each for the Norway option or hard Brexit.
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-/
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    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Can only be a matter of time before Remainers turn on the EU for contemplating a deal that works for both sides rather than a punishment beating...

    The amount of straw you've used in that man is a real fire hazard.
    It's coming though - weeks if not days.

    Also - will suit Davis for the deal to be agreed at the last minute - less chance of Westminster voting it down.
    I'd be much happier if Gove was Brexit Secretary.

    If David Davis is getting tripped up by Labour MPs then how's he going to cope with the Eurocrats?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,294
    Hello, is that Mr Newton? I have a special job for you.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    But as you have patently shown, you know nothing about a Canada style deal.

    Full disclosure. I co-wrote a report about why a Canada style deal is bad for the biggest tax contributing industry in the country.
    The only alternatives to a Canada style deal are full hard Brexit and no deal at all, which really could be catastrophic or the single market and full uncontrolled free movement or staying in the EU, which could well lead to civil unrest in working class areas of the north and midlands which voted Leave to control immigration as well as rocket UKIP up the polls

    So while a Canada deal is not perfect for now it is the best alternative there is.
    No it isn't.
    Yes it is
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    And a deal which requires a huge Brexit bill to be agreed years before it is even negotiated.
    Yes, and that will be the showstopper. The UK public will never agree to the UK paying a huge bill in return for a 'promise' of a future FTA. The moment it becomes clear that the EU are not offering a trade deal in return for money, the whole thing will fall apart.
    Money was always going to be problematic, since some would object to any amount even to meet our existing obligations (rather than quibble over the amount we obliged too, which despite what some believe is not 'whatever the negotiators say it is').
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Can only be a matter of time before Remainers turn on the EU for contemplating a deal that works for both sides rather than a punishment beating...

    The amount of straw you've used in that man is a real fire hazard.
    It's coming though - weeks if not days.

    Also - will suit Davis for the deal to be agreed at the last minute - less chance of Westminster voting it down.
    I'd be much happier if Gove was Brexit Secretary.

    If David Davis is getting tripped up by Labour MPs then how's he going to cope with the Eurocrats?
    Gove is the most able member of the cabinet by some margin - he'd do a better job than Rudd, May and particularly Hammond at their jobs. And obviously he'd do better than DD at Brexiting.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,021

    HYUFD said:

    The only alternatives to a Canada style deal are dull hard Brexit and no deal at all, which really could be catastrophic or the single market and full uncontrolled free movement or staying in the EU, which could well lead to civil unrest in working class areas of the north and midlands which voted Leave to control immigration as well as rocket UKIP up the polls.

    So while a Canada deal is not perfect for now it is the best alternative there is.

    I think that's broadly right, but we should be able to do a little better than that, simply because so many EU companies rely on the City for fund raising, currency hedging and derivative contracts.
    I would hope so.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Here we go again - you are relying on what shouty Islam said that Gove said, not what Gove actually said

    Calm down dear.

    I never mentioned Gove.

    In this case, the head of a pharmaceutical manufacturer, who might be considered an expert in that field, made a statement that is disputed by Brexiteers.

    Just like the meaning of Article 50 is confidently expounded by the Brexiteers in contradiction to the guy that wrote it.

    They know better than experts.

    Those are the facts, and they are not in dispute...
    So what does "again" refer to, if not to Gove vs shouty Faisal?

    You really are all at sea about, well, everything. As to the meaning of Article 50, it is a clear principle of the law on the construction of documents that the intention of "the guy who wrote it" is of limited value, and in many cases is inadmissible as evidence. You are, in other words, dead wrong.

    Pascal Soriot is a vet by training and a CEO by career so, no, he is unlikely to be an expert on the law governing his company's exports to China and when he needs to know about it, I guess he consults an expert. So again, you are wrong.

    And here is something Richard Feynman said: "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." And Feynman was an expert. Doesn't it do your head in?
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    Bloody hell this case hasn't even cleared the pretty low bar of being an arguable case.

    So it turns out the DUP deal doesn't breach doesn't the Good Friday Agreement.

    A crowdfunded bid at the high court in London to challenge the government’s controversial parliamentary deal with the Democratic Unionist party has failed.

    Two judges rejected an application made on Thursday by Ciaran McClean, an unsuccessful Westminster candidate for the Green party in Northern Ireland in the general election, to bring a judicial review of the legality of the £1bn deal.

    The claim alleged the deal breached the landmark 1998 Good Friday agreement and the Bribery Act.


    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/oct/26/crowdfunded-high-court-challenge-against-tory-dup-1bn-deal-fails
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,841
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    Give us your money or it's a "horror scenario" is not constructive
    War it is, then.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,282
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Here we go again - you are relying on what shouty Islam said that Gove said, not what Gove actually said

    Calm down dear.

    I never mentioned Gove.

    In this case, the head of a pharmaceutical manufacturer, who might be considered an expert in that field, made a statement that is disputed by Brexiteers.

    Just like the meaning of Article 50 is confidently expounded by the Brexiteers in contradiction to the guy that wrote it.

    They know better than experts.

    Those are the facts, and they are not in dispute...
    So what does "again" refer to, if not to Gove vs shouty Faisal?

    You really are all at sea about, well, everything. As to the meaning of Article 50, it is a clear principle of the law on the construction of documents that the intention of "the guy who wrote it" is of limited value, and in many cases is inadmissible as evidence. You are, in other words, dead wrong.

    Pascal Soriot is a vet by training and a CEO by career so, no, he is unlikely to be an expert on the law governing his company's exports to China and when he needs to know about it, I guess he consults an expert. So again, you are wrong.

    And here is something Richard Feynman said: "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." And Feynman was an expert. Doesn't it do your head in?
    You don't think that Pascal Soriot or his board might just actually have consulted trade experts by this point?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,089
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even Barnier has now said he is working towards a Canada style FTA with the UK, yet more hysterics from hard-core Remainers.
    Barnier doesn't pretend to be offering the UK a pleasant prospect. (In fact it might ease the present negotiations if he did pretend that). He explains a Canada type deal will take years to negotiate, it will be after the transition period has completed (we're presumably on the No trade Deal in the meantime). It would be highly complex and nothing like what we have now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier
    In his view it would be less pleasant than the single market or EU yes but it would still be a deal and a deal which crucially enables free movement to be ended and replaced by a points system unlike the 2 former options.
    If you lose your job because we are no longer trading as much as we did before, or your welfare because there isn't the taxbase any more, will you care two hoots about having a points system?
    Yet more diehard Remainer fanaticism on any form of compromise, a Canada style FTA is not going to lead to a Great Depression.
    Who's being fanatical? I am just pointing out that the ability of bureaucrats to apply points to foreigners doesn't motivate anyone much. If that's all you get - maybe - eventually - with the Canada deal, you might as well make a REAL compromise such as EEA,
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2017

    Bloody hell this case hasn't even cleared the pretty low bar of being an arguable case.

    So it turns out the DUP deal doesn't breach doesn't the Good Friday Agreement.

    A crowdfunded bid at the high court in London to challenge the government’s controversial parliamentary deal with the Democratic Unionist party has failed.

    Two judges rejected an application made on Thursday by Ciaran McClean, an unsuccessful Westminster candidate for the Green party in Northern Ireland in the general election, to bring a judicial review of the legality of the £1bn deal.

    The claim alleged the deal breached the landmark 1998 Good Friday agreement and the Bribery Act.


    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/oct/26/crowdfunded-high-court-challenge-against-tory-dup-1bn-deal-fails

    Well, there's a surprise. With zero legal training, even I could have told Mr McClean that he was wasting his time and his supporters' money.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Flashman's law.

    Anyone who retweets Faisal, Ed "train fare" Conway, or Ian Dunt needs to drink more and get laid.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,841
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Here we go again - you are relying on what shouty Islam said that Gove said, not what Gove actually said

    Calm down dear.

    I never mentioned Gove.

    In this case, the head of a pharmaceutical manufacturer, who might be considered an expert in that field, made a statement that is disputed by Brexiteers.

    Just like the meaning of Article 50 is confidently expounded by the Brexiteers in contradiction to the guy that wrote it.

    They know better than experts.

    Those are the facts, and they are not in dispute...
    So what does "again" refer to, if not to Gove vs shouty Faisal?

    You really are all at sea about, well, everything. As to the meaning of Article 50, it is a clear principle of the law on the construction of documents that the intention of "the guy who wrote it" is of limited value, and in many cases is inadmissible as evidence. You are, in other words, dead wrong.

    Pascal Soriot is a vet by training and a CEO by career so, no, he is unlikely to be an expert on the law governing his company's exports to China and when he needs to know about it, I guess he consults an expert. So again, you are wrong.

    And here is something Richard Feynman said: "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." And Feynman was an expert. Doesn't it do your head in?
    Slightly desperate there, a bit cringy also.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,057
    Tech start-up explains why they're leaving London:

    https://medium.com/@MeetLaFT/bye-london-we-are-moving-to-paris-so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish-and-chips-e3de5be3c7

    I have lost track of the number of developers, marketing managers or data scientists who refused to join us following the Brexit vote. Questions emerging around the British economy and the role of the UK in Europe cooled their interest, despite an interesting salary.

    Soft or Hard Brexit? How much will it cost to sponsor a visa? What will be the cost of inflation and devaluation of the British Pound? Uncertainty is the worst enemy of the entrepreneur and the signal coming from the United Kingdom through the Brexit vote is absolutely disastrous.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,984

    Oh, and as an addition to the prior post, if anybody has a job going for which my many and varied talents would be suitable, do feel free to let me know.

    Good luck with job hunt.
    I've heard that teaching English to Chinese students online can be a profitable, flexible working option if you want to keep time aside for your writing...
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Tech start-up explains why they're leaving London:

    https://medium.com/@MeetLaFT/bye-london-we-are-moving-to-paris-so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish-and-chips-e3de5be3c7

    I have lost track of the number of developers, marketing managers or data scientists who refused to join us following the Brexit vote. Questions emerging around the British economy and the role of the UK in Europe cooled their interest, despite an interesting salary.

    Soft or Hard Brexit? How much will it cost to sponsor a visa? What will be the cost of inflation and devaluation of the British Pound? Uncertainty is the worst enemy of the entrepreneur and the signal coming from the United Kingdom through the Brexit vote is absolutely disastrous.

    Frenchman goes home to France shock.
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