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  • HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    CCHQ has probably learnt from last time and is storing up a raft of future negative ads on Corbyn Labour from comments this week
    Yeah, they worked so well last time...
    This is very different - when has there ever been a prospective COE on video openly admit their policies could collapse the currency and see a currency flight to safety.

    And Liverpool are 1 down
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    CCHQ has probably learnt from last time and is storing up a raft of future negative ads on Corbyn Labour from comments this week
    Video of McDonnell openly admitting labour policies may cause the currency to tank and with it capital flight is a gift - it was just astonishing
    That and the anti Zionism anti monarchy stuff, Len McCluskey in triumphant Red Flag mode etc
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    dr_spyn said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing?
    I cannot recall ever seeing portraits of Harold Wilson or Clement Attlee being carried around of a conference hall with such enthusiasm and chanting.
    Wilson won 4/5 general elections he fought, Attlee 2/5 (and the popular vote in a third), Corbyn has presently won 0/1, when he can match their record he really deserves to be carried around the conference hall to chanting
  • glwglw Posts: 9,997
    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I'm still holding out for an asteroid hitting the Houses of Parliament to solve the problem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    CCHQ has probably learnt from last time and is storing up a raft of future negative ads on Corbyn Labour from comments this week
    Yes, because that really worked last time.

    No good if the Tories don't have a positive vision for us.
    Well the Tories still won 60 more seats than Corbyn Labour even despite their abysmal campaign, if the Tories actually have an even half decent campaign next time who knows what could happen! Last time they barely touched Corbyn's record or his tax policies
  • Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing?
    It is an example of his refreshing honesty.

    Other politicians would lie.

    Jeremy tells it like it is.
    At risk of a Godwin, Hitler said in Mein Kampf that the gassing of 15,000 Jews would have saved a million German lives in the First World War (and implicitly saved them from defeat)

    A theory that was not widely accepted but that he later tested to destruction.

    However I cannot imagine even a man who is a friend of Paul Eisen wishes to be in such company as Adolf Hitler.

    (BTW, it was almost certainly a coincidence - there is no clear causal chain from that statement to the gas chambers.)
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    About 35% of Labour voters voted Leave in the referendum and 40% of Tory voters voted Remain, so now if just 28% of Labour voters would vote Leave and 28% of Tory voters would vote Remain that is actually a bigger shift of Tory voters to Leave than Labour voters to Remain

    But given that there has been a big swing from Conservative to Labour I am not sure that means much.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
  • nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    Shopping, with borrowed money.

    Or on a foreign holiday, with borrowed money.

    We get the politicians we deserve.
  • Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    They haven't dualled the road yet and it is long overdue. Electrification on that line is a long way away but it is a lovely journey and have travelled it many times even in deepest winter when the snow abounded.

    Liverpool equalised
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    glw said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I'm still holding out for an asteroid hitting the Houses of Parliament to solve the problem.
    Well if that doesnt happen global warming will get it. More seriously they should leave westminster and go to a modern house, with the technology that limits the confrontational crap that we currenty get. It is archaic and not fit for pupose but what do i know
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    CCHQ has probably learnt from last time and is storing up a raft of future negative ads on Corbyn Labour from comments this week
    Yes, because that really worked last time.

    No good if the Tories don't have a positive vision for us.
    Well the Tories still won 60 more seats than Corbyn Labour even despite their abysmal campaign, if the Tories actually have an even half decent campaign next time who knows what could happen! Last time they barely touched Corbyn's record or his tax policies
    Elections are won on the future too, as well as the past and the opposition. And there the Conservatives fell down badly when the election was theirs for the taking. It is no coincidence that Barack Obama called his autobiography 'The Audacity of Hope'.

    Please remember that.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    I am a big fan of electric cars, I have a plug in hybrid at the moment, but I will buy the Jaguar IPace when it is available. No way would I buy anything Dyson related, yes you now know which way I voted. Will not buy a JCB electric car either.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    Shopping, with borrowed money.

    Or on a foreign holiday, with borrowed money.

    We get the politicians we deserve.
    Agreed
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    Probably not feasible to electrify to Kyle and Wick though? Would cost at least £50 million for each, at a very rough guess, for 3-4 trains a day?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017
    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,371
    edited September 2017
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
    As part of the 21st-century modernisation of the Great Western Main Line, large parts of the GWR network are to be electrified using overhead lines, including the GWML from Airport Junction to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa; the South Wales Main Line from the junction with the Great Western at Wootton Bassett to Swansea; the Cherwell Valley Line from Didcot Parkway to Oxford; a very short stretch of the Cross Country Route between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads; and the Reading to Taunton Line from Reading as far as Newbury.[111][112][113] The branches to Marlow, Henley, and Windsor, and the Reading to Basingstoke Line will also be electrified.[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Electrification
  • ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    CCHQ has probably learnt from last time and is storing up a raft of future negative ads on Corbyn Labour from comments this week
    Yes, because that really worked last time.

    No good if the Tories don't have a positive vision for us.
    'Vote yourself a house'

    Adapted from Abraham Lincoln 1860:

    https://www.presidentsusa.net/1860slogan.html
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    Well yes it just shows the state of global polotics, where did it all go wrong?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing?
    It is an example of his refreshing honesty.

    Other politicians would lie.

    Jeremy tells it like it is.
    At risk of a Godwin, Hitler said in Mein Kampf that the gassing of 15,000 Jews would have saved a million German lives in the First World War (and implicitly saved them from defeat)

    A theory that was not widely accepted but that he later tested to destruction.

    However I cannot imagine even a man who is a friend of Paul Eisen wishes to be in such company as Adolf Hitler.

    (BTW, it was almost certainly a coincidence - there is no clear causal chain from that statement to the gas chambers.)
    Conference has been a disappointment.

    I was hoping that the Labour Party would be selling Jeremy's Jam at conference, made from fruit on his allotment.

    Jeremy's 'Apple & Blackberry Jelly' is reputedly very tasty.

    Also, I hoped there would be beans, sweetcorn & tomatoes on sale. And perhaps a few tips on the best manure to use.

    Instead, conference seems to have concentrated on numerous extraneous matters, such as disembowelling the monarchy, organising anti-Semitism and encouraging economic chaos.
  • Three names Dave thinks that a close reading of Tusk's comments suggests the UK government is accepting that the only alternative to a hard Brexit is no Brexit.

    http://jackofkent.com/2017/09/brexit-diary-what-does-donald-tusk-mean-by-realism/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    CCHQ has probably learnt from last time and is storing up a raft of future negative ads on Corbyn Labour from comments this week
    Yes, because that really worked last time.

    No good if the Tories don't have a positive vision for us.
    Well the Tories still won 60 more seats than Corbyn Labour even despite their abysmal campaign, if the Tories actually have an even half decent campaign next time who knows what could happen! Last time they barely touched Corbyn's record or his tax policies
    Elections are won on the future too, as well as the past and the opposition. And there the Conservatives fell down badly when the election was theirs for the taking. It is no coincidence that Barack Obama called his autobiography 'The Audacity of Hope'.

    Please remember that.
    Not always, Obama won on hope in 2008, he won in 2012 by destroying Mitt Romney with negative ads, much as George W did with Kerry in 2004. The Tories won in 1992 largely by destroying Kinnock and his tax plans and in 2015 by portraying Ed Miliband as weak and in Salmond's pocket, Labour did the same to Michael Howard in 2005 tarring him as an extremist, Bush Snr won in 1988 largely by destroying Dukakis and his weakness on crime etc

    The most brilliant attack quip of all was probably LBJ's on Goldwater, 'he says in your heart you know he's right, in your guts you know he's nuts'
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    It is very very dangerous for democratic elections to be overturned because some people dont like the result. A second referendum which overturned the first risks millions of angry people turning to extremes. Much better to allow Brexit to happen and then to campaign for re-entry at a later point.
  • Amusing juxtaposition on BBC News tonight -Corbyn being interviewed on his plan for running Britain with the charred ruins of the Brighton West Pier in the background
  • Another Home Office cock up to fire up the core of liberal Remainers. Much appreciated.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/26/leave-uk-immediately-scientist-is-latest-victim-of-home-office-blunder
  • I think it is fair to say that Labour are a racist party now.

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/912628316242370560
  • brendan16 said:

    And to state the obvious it's impossible to rerun the referendum. Any further referendum would be in the light of two years of additional information and a much clearer idea what Brexit means in practice. It would also have the psychological hurdle of the nation changing it's mind/giving in*

    For instance who would be the Status Quo option n a second referendum ? We are still in. We haven't left. Yet unless we proactively voted Remain we would leave and the government is pro Leave. Which side would be the " protest " vote ?

    We have served article 50 - we cannot just stay in as that requires the consent of all 27 other states. What price might they seek to extract for our humiliating change of heart?

    It comes back to the point - what is the question in this supposed second referendum?

    Accept the deal or leave with no deal is surely the only question which would work - to force voters to deliver the 'right' answer as most remainers and some leavers would surely back the deal.

    It isn't Brexit or remain surely?
    The referendum really should have had a supplementary question: if we do Leave, should we stay in the Single Market? It would have prevented all of the squabbling over the past year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    MP_SE2 said:

    I think it is fair to say that Labour are a racist party now.

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/912628316242370560

    Every time I think he's reached rock bottom, out comes the pneumatic drill and he sinks lower.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657

    HYUFD said:

    About 35% of Labour voters voted Leave in the referendum and 40% of Tory voters voted Remain, so now if just 28% of Labour voters would vote Leave and 28% of Tory voters would vote Remain that is actually a bigger shift of Tory voters to Leave than Labour voters to Remain

    But given that there has been a big swing from Conservative to Labour I am not sure that means much.

    The Tory voteshare in 2017 was still higher than in 2015 even if Labour's was even more so
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    Well yes it just shows the state of global polotics, where did it all go wrong?
    As the old saying goes 'the voters get the politicians they deserve'
  • A question for those knowledgeable about German political geography.

    Why do the SPD do so well in the Hesse / Hanover area:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#/media/File:Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg

    I can understand the SPD doing well in Berlin and the Ruhr but that big red block in central Germany looks to be quite rural.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    If this is true, then it wasn't only Ben Stokes drinking too much causing problems in English cricket:

    Mark Wood will be ruled out of the Ashes tour on fitness grounds as he continues to receive treatment on his heel but James Vince of Hampshire has been recalled and Gary Ballance given another chance to resume his Test career. Vince played seven Tests for England last summer without scoring a fifty and has struggled in county cricket this season while Ballance’s summer was interrupted by a broken index finger. Both will be confirmed on Wednesday morning as members of the Ashes squad.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/09/26/ben-stokes-arrested-west-indies-odi-bristol-incident-alex-hales/

    Neither are fit for Australia. Both will be hammered to pieces by Starc.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
    As part of the 21st-century modernisation of the Great Western Main Line, large parts of the GWR network are to be electrified using overhead lines, including the GWML from Airport Junction to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa; the South Wales Main Line from the junction with the Great Western at Wootton Bassett to Swansea; the Cherwell Valley Line from Didcot Parkway to Oxford; a very short stretch of the Cross Country Route between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads; and the Reading to Taunton Line from Reading as far as Newbury.[111][112][113] The branches to Marlow, Henley, and Windsor, and the Reading to Basingstoke Line will also be electrified.[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Electrification
    One day all that might actually happen.
  • Honestly, I don't know what I'd do in such a referendum. I don't think I could inflict Britain in its current enervated state on the rest of the EU. But I can't line up with the xenophobic Leavers.

    I'd be changing my mind hourly.

    How about lining up with the not xenophobic Leavers?
    You mean, the intensely relaxed about xenophobic Leavers?
  • Honestly, I don't know what I'd do in such a referendum. I don't think I could inflict Britain in its current enervated state on the rest of the EU. But I can't line up with the xenophobic Leavers.

    I'd be changing my mind hourly.

    How about lining up with the not xenophobic Leavers?
    You mean, the intensely relaxed about xenophobic Leavers?
    Clearly, you need grief counselling.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657

    A question for those knowledgeable about German political geography.

    Why do the SPD do so well in the Hesse / Hanover area:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#/media/File:Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg

    I can understand the SPD doing well in Berlin and the Ruhr but that big red block in central Germany looks to be quite rural.

    They lost by 7% in Hesse to the CDU so not that well
  • Honestly, I don't know what I'd do in such a referendum. I don't think I could inflict Britain in its current enervated state on the rest of the EU. But I can't line up with the xenophobic Leavers.

    I'd be changing my mind hourly.

    How about lining up with the not xenophobic Leavers?
    You mean, the intensely relaxed about xenophobic Leavers?
    Clearly, you need grief counselling.
    A song to cheer us all up:
    https://twitter.com/AngryScotland/status/912760455969562634
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Interesting details in the Survation poll

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Labour-Party-Conference-Poll-2017.pdf

    - including party leadership being among the lowest factors that voters consider important to their votes (still important, but less than almost everything else) and respondents don't think the Government deserves re-election, by a 17-point margin (though one can interpret this as showing that Labour hasn't yet impressed them as a good alternative, since the Labour lead is only 1 point). Conservatives only modestly ahead on immigration (by 2 points) and 8 points behind on pensions and retirement, which can't be good as it's their core vote.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    MP_SE2 said:

    I think it is fair to say that Labour are a racist party now.

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/912628316242370560

    Have you listened to it? I haven't got to the racist bit yet, he's saying a labour government should change the law so the PFI contracts can be ended with no compensation to the companies that own them, because they're private companies that have already made too much profit. He doesn't say how he plans to pay university staff pensions once he's fucked over their pension pot.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,523

    A question for those knowledgeable about German political geography.

    Why do the SPD do so well in the Hesse / Hanover area:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#/media/File:Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg

    I can understand the SPD doing well in Berlin and the Ruhr but that big red block in central Germany looks to be quite rural.

    I can only help by saying Hesse has a CDU Green coalition since 2016. It was seen as somewhat opportunistic. The SPD and FD made a song and dance about it. It is possible this helped the SPD.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
  • HYUFD said:

    A question for those knowledgeable about German political geography.

    Why do the SPD do so well in the Hesse / Hanover area:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#/media/File:Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg

    I can understand the SPD doing well in Berlin and the Ruhr but that big red block in central Germany looks to be quite rural.

    They lost by 7% in Hesse to the CDU so not that well
    True but they still did better there than in other places and traditionally its an SPD stronghold.

    Why so ?
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Honestly, I don't know what I'd do in such a referendum. I don't think I could inflict Britain in its current enervated state on the rest of the EU. But I can't line up with the xenophobic Leavers.

    I'd be changing my mind hourly.

    How about lining up with the not xenophobic Leavers?
    You mean, the intensely relaxed about xenophobic Leavers?
    QED
  • Honestly, I don't know what I'd do in such a referendum. I don't think I could inflict Britain in its current enervated state on the rest of the EU. But I can't line up with the xenophobic Leavers.

    I'd be changing my mind hourly.

    How about lining up with the not xenophobic Leavers?
    You mean, the intensely relaxed about xenophobic Leavers?
    Clearly, you need grief counselling.
    A song to cheer us all up:
    https://twitter.com/AngryScotland/status/912760455969562634
    You're way past counselling.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,634

    A question for those knowledgeable about German political geography.

    Why do the SPD do so well in the Hesse / Hanover area:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#/media/File:Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg

    I can understand the SPD doing well in Berlin and the Ruhr but that big red block in central Germany looks to be quite rural.

    The German equivalent of Durham ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing?
    It is an example of his refreshing honesty.

    Other politicians would lie.

    Jeremy tells it like it is.
    I do have a feeling that they're getting high on their own supply.

    All we need is for one of them to start denouncing the Hoax of the Twentieth Century.
  • Pulpstar said:

    A question for those knowledgeable about German political geography.

    Why do the SPD do so well in the Hesse / Hanover area:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#/media/File:Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg

    I can understand the SPD doing well in Berlin and the Ruhr but that big red block in central Germany looks to be quite rural.

    The German equivalent of Durham ?
    There are several Volkswagen sites around Hanover.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
    As part of the 21st-century modernisation of the Great Western Main Line, large parts of the GWR network are to be electrified using overhead lines, including the GWML from Airport Junction to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa; the South Wales Main Line from the junction with the Great Western at Wootton Bassett to Swansea; the Cherwell Valley Line from Didcot Parkway to Oxford; a very short stretch of the Cross Country Route between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads; and the Reading to Taunton Line from Reading as far as Newbury.[111][112][113] The branches to Marlow, Henley, and Windsor, and the Reading to Basingstoke Line will also be electrified.[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Electrification
    One day all that might actually happen.
    Electric trains are already being stabled near Bristol Parkway.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    In the spirit of Crocodile Dundee -"that's not a knife, this is a knife" - that's not xenophobia, this is xenophobia:

    Hungary and Poland have vowed to stand firm against what they claim is an overbearing European Union, intent on eroding the sovereignty of member states and forcing them to accept quotas of refugees.
    Brussels has criticised the countries’ hardline stance on asylum, and other policies that it fears will undermine democracy, but Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban and Polish counterpart Beata Szydlo were defiant in Warsaw on Friday.
    “We accept the decision of immigrant countries that they want to be immigrant countries,” Mr Orban said of states that accept refugees, who he describes as a threat to Europe’s security, culture and identity.
    “We don’t want to be an immigrant country and we have every right not to be.”
    Ms Szydlo added: “The path our governments chose on the matter of illegal immigration turned out to be right.”
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-rebels-hungary-and-poland-reaffirm-anti-immigrant-alliance-1.3230872
    22/9/17

    Study after study shows the British to be about the least racist, least xenophobic people in Europe.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722

    Interesting details in the Survation poll

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Labour-Party-Conference-Poll-2017.pdf

    - including party leadership being among the lowest factors that voters consider important to their votes (still important, but less than almost everything else) and respondents don't think the Government deserves re-election, by a 17-point margin (though one can interpret this as showing that Labour hasn't yet impressed them as a good alternative, since the Labour lead is only 1 point). Conservatives only modestly ahead on immigration (by 2 points) and 8 points behind on pensions and retirement, which can't be good as it's their core vote.

    Only because lots of people rate UKIP best on immigration.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    ydoethur said:

    If this is true, then it wasn't only Ben Stokes drinking too much causing problems in English cricket:

    Mark Wood will be ruled out of the Ashes tour on fitness grounds as he continues to receive treatment on his heel but James Vince of Hampshire has been recalled and Gary Ballance given another chance to resume his Test career. Vince played seven Tests for England last summer without scoring a fifty and has struggled in county cricket this season while Ballance’s summer was interrupted by a broken index finger. Both will be confirmed on Wednesday morning as members of the Ashes squad.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/09/26/ben-stokes-arrested-west-indies-odi-bristol-incident-alex-hales/

    Neither are fit for Australia. Both will be hammered to pieces by Starc.

    Ballance wasn't impressive when I watched him batting today. Although he was unlucky to be run out backing up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We are, rightly IMHO, critical of Cameron's government for not contingency planning for Brexit.
    However, we appear to be being critical of Labour for planning for a range of possibilities.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274
    edited September 2017

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
    As part of the 21st-century modernisation of the Great Western Main Line, large parts of the GWR network are to be electrified using overhead lines, including the GWML from Airport Junction to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa; the South Wales Main Line from the junction with the Great Western at Wootton Bassett to Swansea; the Cherwell Valley Line from Didcot Parkway to Oxford; a very short stretch of the Cross Country Route between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads; and the Reading to Taunton Line from Reading as far as Newbury.[111][112][113] The branches to Marlow, Henley, and Windsor, and the Reading to Basingstoke Line will also be electrified.[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Electrification
    One day all that might actually happen.
    Electric trains are already being stabled near Bristol Parkway.
    Parkway, not Bristol.

    Incidentally, I saw a broken down IEP in GWR colours next to the Emirates a few weeks ago.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
  • Sean_F said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
    Margaret Thatcher or for labour Blair in his day
  • Sean_F said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
    General Pinochet surely.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722

    Sean_F said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
    General Pinochet surely.
    He'd be good as well.
  • HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    So, in summary, the country which is doing best is France, which at least has a president who is an improvement on the previous one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    ydoethur said:

    If this is true, then it wasn't only Ben Stokes drinking too much causing problems in English cricket:

    Mark Wood will be ruled out of the Ashes tour on fitness grounds as he continues to receive treatment on his heel but James Vince of Hampshire has been recalled and Gary Ballance given another chance to resume his Test career. Vince played seven Tests for England last summer without scoring a fifty and has struggled in county cricket this season while Ballance’s summer was interrupted by a broken index finger. Both will be confirmed on Wednesday morning as members of the Ashes squad.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/09/26/ben-stokes-arrested-west-indies-odi-bristol-incident-alex-hales/

    Neither are fit for Australia. Both will be hammered to pieces by Starc.

    Ballance wasn't impressive when I watched him batting today. Although he was unlucky to be run out backing up.
    Early reports suggest Vince will bat at three and Westley is dropped.

    Again, can we raise the question of alcohol here? Surely nobody sober thinks this is likely to work? He doesn't even bat three for Hampshire!

    I think if we're serious about renewal in English cricket, it should now start with a clean sweep of the selectors.

    And on that, good night.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,634

    Sean_F said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
    General Pinochet surely.
    Lee Kuan Yew

    He knew how to run a country:

    Singapore's Gross National Product per capita rose from $1,240 in 1959 to $18,437 in 1990. The unemployment rate in Singapore dropped from 13.5% in 1959 to 1.7% in 1990. External trade increased from $7.3 billion in 1959 to $205 billion in 1990. In other areas, the life expectancy at birth for Singaporeans rose from 65 years at 1960 to 74 years in 1990. The population of Singapore increased from 1.6 million in 1959 to 3 million in 1990. The number of public flats in Singapore rose from 22,975 in 1959 (then under the Singapore Improvement Trust) to 667,575 in 1990. The Singaporean literacy rate increased from 52% in 1957 to 90% in 1990.

  • Banks screwing people over and credit card companies charging usurious interest to the debt-laden.

    House prices in the stratosphere and crappy accommodation for those who have to rent.

    Young people getting stuffed with huge debts just for completing their education.

    I know we are still spending more than we get in tax. I know there's no magic money tree. I know that Corbyn is a nutter with nutcase policies. But, still, the idea of just 'more of the same' is unpalatable. I can see the appeal of Corbyn (crazy though it is).

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,837
    edited September 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
    General Pinochet surely.
    Lee Kuan Yew

    He knew how to run a country:
    Q What is your greatest fear for Singapore?

    Mr Lee: I think a leadership and a people that has forgotten, that has lost its bearings and do not understand the constraints that we face. Small base, highly, technically, organised, very competent people, complete international confidence, an ability to engage the big boys. You lose that, you're down. And you can go down very rapidly...
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
    As part of the 21st-century modernisation of the Great Western Main Line, large parts of the GWR network are to be electrified using overhead lines, including the GWML from Airport Junction to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa; the South Wales Main Line from the junction with the Great Western at Wootton Bassett to Swansea; the Cherwell Valley Line from Didcot Parkway to Oxford; a very short stretch of the Cross Country Route between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads; and the Reading to Taunton Line from Reading as far as Newbury.[111][112][113] The branches to Marlow, Henley, and Windsor, and the Reading to Basingstoke Line will also be electrified.[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Electrification
    One day all that might actually happen.
    Electric trains are already being stabled near Bristol Parkway.
    Parkway, not Bristol.

    Incidentally, I saw a broken down IEP in GWR colours next to the Emirates a few weeks ago.
    They will enter service in 2018.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    The headline in the New York Post is "Weiner pops out and disappears."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    So, in summary, the country which is doing best is France, which at least has a president who is an improvement on the previous one.
    Yet a President whose approval rating has seen the fastest nosedive for decades and is now just barely more than half what it was when he took office
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement ?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We are, rightly IMHO, critical of Cameron's government for not contingency planning for Brexit.
    However, we appear to be being critical of Labour for planning for a range of possibilities.
    As far as I understand it, the idea that labour party members could 'war game' a run on the pound. There would then be 'detailed instruction manuals' for how the party would deal with the problem if it actually happened.

    There are some very clever people in the labour party, but they don't have access to real expertise that would be useful in this type of scenario. They seem to have alienated the group of economists that supported Corbyn, and they would have access to the civil service, but only in the run up to the election.

    The reality is that the left just reverts back to the usual and disproven formula - ie tax, print money, plunder the resources of the state to pursue 'equality', keep interest groups happy, etc.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,371
    edited September 2017

    Sean_F said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
    General Pinochet surely.
    Duh! Chancellor Osborne Palpatine!
  • HYUFD said:

    Yet a President whose approval rating has seen the fastest nosedive for decades and is now just barely more than half what it was when he took office

    Well you can't have everything!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    nielh said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement ?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We are, rightly IMHO, critical of Cameron's government for not contingency planning for Brexit.
    However, we appear to be being critical of Labour for planning for a range of possibilities.
    As far as I understand it, the idea that labour party members could 'war game' a run on the pound. There would then be 'detailed instruction manuals' for how the party would deal with the problem if it actually happened.

    There are some very clever people in the labour party, but they don't have access to real expertise that would be useful in this type of scenario. They seem to have alienated the group of economists that supported Corbyn, and they would have access to the civil service, but only in the run up to the election.

    The reality is that the left just reverts back to the usual and disproven formula - ie tax, print money, plunder the resources of the state to pursue 'equality', keep interest groups happy, etc.
    Liquidate the kulaks as a class.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    So, in summary, the country which is doing best is France, which at least has a president who is an improvement on the previous one.
    Is that right? I thought, at the same stage in the cycle, Hollande was actually more popular than Macron.

    Of course, in Wales, we've had the same very stable Government since 1999. Look at the rewards we have reaped.

    In Ebbw Vale, 52% of the population have either no qualifications at all or qualifications equal to GCSE at grade D or below

    Still, Labour are investing in Welsh education and sometime around ... well, perhaps best not to put too firm a date on it ... we will see improvements.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    Dyson is developing it as are all the car manufacturers - the power points is a matter for governments around the world
    One positive about the (slowish) shift to electric vehicles is that 'pollution' won't be a factor against development of road networks.
    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
    As part of the 21st-century modernisation of the Great Western Main Line, large parts of the GWR network are to be electrified using overhead lines, including the GWML from Airport Junction to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa; the South Wales Main Line from the junction with the Great Western at Wootton Bassett to Swansea; the Cherwell Valley Line from Didcot Parkway to Oxford; a very short stretch of the Cross Country Route between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads; and the Reading to Taunton Line from Reading as far as Newbury.[111][112][113] The branches to Marlow, Henley, and Windsor, and the Reading to Basingstoke Line will also be electrified.[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Electrification
    One day all that might actually happen.
    Electric trains are already being stabled near Bristol Parkway.
    Parkway, not Bristol.

    Incidentally, I saw a broken down IEP in GWR colours next to the Emirates a few weeks ago.
    They will enter service in 2018.
    Evening Dr P - just letting you know I yellow-penned the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway at the weekend.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,523

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    So, in summary, the country which is doing best is France, which at least has a president who is an improvement on the previous one.
    Trudeau may look like he ought to be in a boy band, but he is a capable politician. His looks win him a few votes, but his opponents under estimate him because of it too. He has dragged the Liberals back from 34 seats and third place into governmeant. Not an achievement to be sniffed at.
  • Sean_F said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour activist calls for the Royal Family to be guillotined
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-mocks-prince-harrys-11240409.amp

    It's not often I find myself in agreement with the Daily Mail. However, is anyone, even a really tribal Labour loyalist, willing to defend Labour at this moment? Even leaving aside the calls for mass murder and the removal of certain racial groups, the whole approach to policy has been a shambles - did Corbyn really mean to tell everyone that his government would inevitably cause economic chaos and that this was a good thing? Or Ashworth and Macdonnell put forward entirely contradictory policies 24 hours apart? Or let Emma Dent Coad, a woman who served on Kensington's housing committee and seems mysteriously reluctant to let any investigation into Grenfell go ahead, loose to demonstrate that she's actually got the intellect of a rather junior parish councillor?
    I think people don't care. Its not news. No one can be shocked about anything anymore.
    Brexit was a fantasy. Corbyn's vision for the Labour party is a fantasy .
    The whole idea of western stability and security was, it turns out, a fantasy, because all these undesirable events around the world which we now know about due to the internet, were just unreported. There is no normal that we can revert to or reestablish.

    We are just watching the slow motion failure of the whole political and social system, as people are distracted by impossible fantasies. The Labour party conference is a particularly entertaining example of it. People can't confront the truth, because it is too uncomfortable and difficult. They prefer delusions, but they always have.

    I have no idea where this is leading, a Labour government would appear to be a catastrophic failure, but the current government is also failing, albeit for other reasons.

    What comes next ? I dread to think.
    We need someone like General Franco in charge.
    Would a Faragist be close enough to a Falangist?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,634
    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    Maybe the world is just more complicated now.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This is why it's better to leave the currency in the hands of the ECB. ;)
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Dyson is developing his electric car in Wiltshire and will 'hoover' up all his competitors

    e-trabant, with a range of about 50 miles.

    If Dyson is creating this new car, who is going to fund the many charging points and the power generation needed to keep them going? I hope it is an advance on that Enfield design.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_8000
    /blockquote>

    Scotland has announced the A9 - Perth to Inverness will be their first fully electric road
    Would love to see electric trains to Inverness
    You'll be lucky to get electric trains to Bath and Bristol, never mind Inverness!
    As part of the 21st-century modernisation of the Great Western Main Line, large parts of the GWR network are to be electrified using overhead lines, including the GWML from Airport Junction to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa; the South Wales Main Line from the junction with the Great Western at Wootton Bassett to Swansea; the Cherwell Valley Line from Didcot Parkway to Oxford; a very short stretch of the Cross Country Route between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads; and the Reading to Taunton Line from Reading as far as Newbury.[111][112][113] The branches to Marlow, Henley, and Windsor, and the Reading to Basingstoke Line will also be electrified.[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Electrification
    One day all that might actually happen.
    Electric trains are already being stabled near Bristol Parkway.
    Parkway, not Bristol.

    Incidentally, I saw a broken down IEP in GWR colours next to the Emirates a few weeks ago.
    They will enter service in 2018.
    Evening Dr P - just letting you know I yellow-penned the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway at the weekend.
    Hi Sandy, hope it was good. I would have done that if I didn't prioritise the National Rail routes through Skipton to Carlisle and Carnforth.

    I did the Mail Rail a couple of weekends ago, preceded by the Glasgow Subway and Edinburgh Tram, and routes from Glasgow to Ayr, Balloch, and Edinburgh (via Falkirk High and Airdrie)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,139
    edited September 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This is why it's better to leave the currency in the hands of the ECB. ;)
    Some wise words on Labour's competence, and handing things over to the ECB:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tetk_ayO1x4

    :D
  • It seems Macron has something of the Osborne about him. After he failed to be given an ministry by Manuel Valls, he said, "I'll be back and I'll attack with an ice pick."

    https://www.challenges.fr/politique/hollande-macron-montebourg-jean-christophe-cambadelis-dezingue-ses-anciens-camarades-dans-un-livre_502186
  • Pulpstar said:

    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This could be the thing that is most remembered from Labour's 2017 conference.

    You can be sure it will be played time and again and will seep into the voters mindset
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Pulpstar said:

    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This could be the thing that is most remembered from Labour's 2017 conference.

    You can be sure it will be played time and again and will seep into the voters mindset
    Sorry Big G - much as I would love to agree, most people under 40 will have no idea what that means.

    We don't remember 70s Britain.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    Pulpstar said:

    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    Better than not planning what to do if you lose a referendum. Or not having a plan for a snap GE you call yourself. :lol:
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    We must be the laughing stock of the world stuck between an incompetant government and a lunatic labour party, where do we go?

    I don't think Americans can exactly laugh given Trump and with Sanders and Warren the best the Democrats have to face him next time, the Canadians have a leader who looks like he should be in a boy band, the French have just given a far right candidate a third of the vote and the Germans a far right party 13% of the vote so cannot laugh much either, the Spanish have a PM who seems about to bring his country almost to civil war, the Italians opposition is led by an ex comedian and Berlusconi, the South Koreans last President was imprisoned, the Brazilians last President was impeached and her successor embroiled in scandal, the South African President recently survived a vote of no confidence, the Australian and NZ PMs barely have a mandate in Parliament and the Russians and Chinese do not even get a full democratic choice of their leaders at all. So the rest of the world does not have much to crow about either!
    Maybe the world is just more complicated now.
    It all represents a crisis in liberal democracy.
    The effective leaders are the ones who have subverted democracy.

  • RoyalBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This could be the thing that is most remembered from Labour's 2017 conference.

    You can be sure it will be played time and again and will seep into the voters mindset
    Sorry Big G - much as I would love to agree, most people under 40 will have no idea what that means.

    We don't remember 70s Britain.
    Well I am sure they will find out very quickly if Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott get their hands on the levers of power
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    Pulpstar said:

    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This could be the thing that is most remembered from Labour's 2017 conference.

    You can be sure it will be played time and again and will seep into the voters mindset
    Wishful thinking on your part Big_G. It will be yesterday's fish & chip paper even before the Tory conference starts.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,338
    edited September 2017
    Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.

    The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.

    Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.

    The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/theresa-may-took-dictation-brussels-keynote-eu-speech-agreed/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.

    The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.

    Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.

    The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/theresa-may-took-dictation-brussels-keynote-eu-speech-agreed/

    Good job we hold all the aces, eh?
  • Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.

    The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.

    Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.

    The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/theresa-may-took-dictation-brussels-keynote-eu-speech-agreed/

    If you read the article there is a lot of sense in having a pre agreed position and makes it very difficult for the EU not to move talks on
  • Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.

    The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.

    Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.

    The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/theresa-may-took-dictation-brussels-keynote-eu-speech-agreed/

    But didn't all the EU drones bureaucrats rush to rubbish her speech??? They surely wouldn't be talking bollocks would they...
  • Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.

    The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.

    Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.

    The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/theresa-may-took-dictation-brussels-keynote-eu-speech-agreed/

    Good job we hold all the aces, eh?
    Have you read it Ben and if so where is the problem
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Pulpstar said:

    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
  • Pulpstar said:

    BBC Top news story -

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This could be the thing that is most remembered from Labour's 2017 conference.

    You can be sure it will be played time and again and will seep into the voters mindset
    Wishful thinking on your part Big_G. It will be yesterday's fish & chip paper even before the Tory conference starts.
    I very much doubt it
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,523

    Pulpstar said:

    Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!

    This is why it's better to leave the currency in the hands of the ECB. ;)
    Tbf the England Cricket Board may do a better job of it.
  • MP_SE2 said:

    Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.

    The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.

    Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.

    The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/theresa-may-took-dictation-brussels-keynote-eu-speech-agreed/

    But didn't all the EU drones bureaucrats rush to rubbish her speech??? They surely wouldn't be talking bollocks would they...
    Nope they welcomed it, and wished to see the proposals behind the principles.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SamCoatesTimes: YouGov / Times poll

    Con 39 (-2)
    Lab 43 (+1)
    LD 7 (-)
    Other 10 (+1)

    1,716 GB adults
    Sept 22-4 (Sept 12-13)
  • Not good headlines for Labour on Sky and BBC news
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