Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.
The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.
Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.
The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.
Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.
The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.
Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.
The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.
Have you read it Ben and if so where is the problem
No problem at all, in the sense that she's done the sensible thing under the circumstances... but it does rather give the lie to the view expressed by quite a few on here and elsewhere that we have a strong hand in these negotiations.
Theresa May "took dictation" from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.
The Daily Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to "honour commitments" made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.
Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.
The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.
Have you read it Ben and if so where is the problem
No problem at all, in the sense that she's done the sensible thing under the circumstances... but it does rather give the lie to the view expressed by quite a few on here and elsewhere that we have a strong hand in these negotiations.
We have a strong hand Ben - it is money and pleased you accept it was sensible.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
If they were getting cannier politically they would have done something about all the anti-Semites that have infested their party. Instead they seem to have turned a blind eye.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
No, we haven't. Even the BBC disagrees with that: it cites the last run on the pound as Black Wednesday in 1992.
The pound has devalued since the EU ref, but that's not the same as a run. For reference, it also devalued a fair bit post 2008 during the great recession.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
More correctly, we had a run on the pound in 2008. Since then there was a reasonable recovery up until 2015, and it's now given up much of those gains - though strengthened a bit recently.
Honestly, I don't know what I'd do in such a referendum. I don't think I could inflict Britain in its current enervated state on the rest of the EU. But I can't line up with the xenophobic Leavers.
I'd be changing my mind hourly.
How about lining up with the not xenophobic Leavers?
You mean, the intensely relaxed about xenophobic Leavers?
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
No, we haven't. Even the BBC disagrees with that: it cites the last run on the pound as Black Wednesday in 1992.
The pound has devalued since the EU ref, but that's not the same as a run. For reference, it also devalued a fair bit post 2008 during the great recession.
Surely a devaluation is a good thing? PB Tories keep telling me so
A run on the pound is not that important per se. It's the fact that investment would dry up with Corbyn and McDonnell in charge that matters.
Given the even more bonkers policies announced so far this week, I doubt I will be the only highly educated individual dashing to the airport if Chairman Corbyn wins.
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
A run on the pound is not that important per se. It's the fact that investment would dry up with Corbyn and McDonnell in charge that matters.
Given the even more bonkers policies announced so far this week, I doubt I will be the only highly educated individual dashing to the airport if Chairman Corbyn wins.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
If they were getting cannier politically they would have done something about all the anti-Semites that have infested their party. Instead they seem to have turned a blind eye.
I left Labour over its tolerance of anti-Semitism, but I doubt it resonates as an issue. That's the depressing truth of it.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
No, we haven't. Even the BBC disagrees with that: it cites the last run on the pound as Black Wednesday in 1992.
The pound has devalued since the EU ref, but that's not the same as a run. For reference, it also devalued a fair bit post 2008 during the great recession.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
If they were getting cannier politically they would have done something about all the anti-Semites that have infested their party. Instead they seem to have turned a blind eye.
I left Labour over its tolerance of anti-Semitism, but I doubt it resonates as an issue. That's the depressing truth of it.
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
The old rules no longer apply. Prior to June, no party that started with an 18% lead failed to win a big majority.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
If they were getting cannier politically they would have done something about all the anti-Semites that have infested their party. Instead they seem to have turned a blind eye.
I left Labour over its tolerance of anti-Semitism, but I doubt it resonates as an issue. That's the depressing truth of it.
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
Give it time, but it's reasonable to say, it's still not exemplary in terms of a lead. Better than nothing though.
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
The old rules no longer apply. Prior to June, no party that started with an 18% lead failed to win a big majority.
Labour may very well win, and may very well lose.
The problem at the moment is there are a lot of people, like with Trump in the US, have decided to throw the baby out with the bath water.
No amount of negative truths about Corbyn and his gang of Venezuelan loving Marxist types seem to dent people's willingness to give his bonkers ideas a go.
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
If they were getting cannier politically they would have done something about all the anti-Semites that have infested their party. Instead they seem to have turned a blind eye.
I left Labour over its tolerance of anti-Semitism, but I doubt it resonates as an issue. That's the depressing truth of it.
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
The old rules no longer apply. Prior to June, no party that started with an 18% lead failed to win a big majority.
Labour may very well win, and may very well lose.
Absolutely spot on - but the difference in the parties next time will be a chasm
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
If they were getting cannier politically they would have done something about all the anti-Semites that have infested their party. Instead they seem to have turned a blind eye.
I left Labour over its tolerance of anti-Semitism, but I doubt it resonates as an issue. That's the depressing truth of it.
Yep. No one cares, not enough.
A bit like when a Tory MP used the n-word.
More people care, probably, but by and large nothing any individual says seems to impact the feeling about the group much.
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
4 points and growing, let's see if the Tories get a conference bounce.
On the subject of the varieties of Magic Money Trees, Why is an economy based on state debt any worse than one based on ever increasing consumer and household debt?
The Tory MMT has blue flowers, the Labour Red ones, but they are the same tree
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
4 points and growing, let's see if the Tories get a conference bounce.
On the subject of the varieties of Magic Money Trees, Why is an economy based on state debt any worse than one based on ever increasing consumer and household debt?
The Tory MMT has blue flowers, the Labour Red ones, but they are the same tree
4 points maximum and shrinking. With one poll this week showing a 2 point Tory lead. No party of opposition has ever won a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections........
Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound !!
Probably worth having a contingency plan for a run, whoever is in charge. We may need it in March 2019 as the cliff edge looms.
We've had a run on the pound. It's led to inflation and a further rise in the cost of living. Makes sense to have plans to deal with such occasions. And to get coverage reminding people of what has happened over the last few months. It's another example of Labour getting cannier politically.
No, we haven't. Even the BBC disagrees with that: it cites the last run on the pound as Black Wednesday in 1992.
The pound has devalued since the EU ref, but that's not the same as a run. For reference, it also devalued a fair bit post 2008 during the great recession.
Surely a devaluation is a good thing? PB Tories keep telling me so
Do they?
In any case, there's difference between an adjustment, of perhaps 10% to 20%, and a run on the pound, of the sort McDonnell is wisely assuming might happen if, God forbid, the unthinkable happens and he enters into No 11.
In 1964 Wilson having had a double digit lead over Home for several months scraped in with a majority of 4. In 1986 Kinnock had a 12 point lead over Thatcher, but lost the general election of 1987. Ed Miliband had a 12 point lead over Cameron in 2012, lost the election in 2015.
......Corbyn is 4 points ahead in some polls today, 2 points behind in one, and Labour chanting mindlessly like a Nuremburg rally is a government in waiting?
In 1964 Wilson having had a double digit lead over Home for several months scraped in with a majority of 4. In 1986 Kinnock had a 12 point lead over Thatcher, but lost the general election of 1987. Ed Miliband had a 12 point lead over Cameron in 2012, lost the election in 2015.
......Corbyn is 4 points ahead in some polls today, 2 points behind in one, and Labour chanting mindlessly like a Nuremburg rally is a government in waiting?
Really?
Well he is doing much better than Gaitskell managed four months following the 1959 election!
They aren't tremendously wise words are they. More hectoring and partisan words. Stirring if you agree with her no doubt, but hardly likely to win over doubters.
No party of opposition has ever won a majority at a general election without being at least 15 points ahead in the opinion polls between elections. Remind us again what Labour's lead is right now?
The old rules no longer apply. Prior to June, no party that started with an 18% lead failed to win a big majority.
Labour may very well win, and may very well lose.
Absolutely spot on - but the difference in the parties next time will be a chasm
Who says the old rules dont apply? No party of opposition has ever won a general election without having a double digit lead in the polls between elections. May failed to win a big majority not because the Tory vote went down much -May got the biggest share of the vote since 1987, - but because Labour squeezed the UKIP/Liberal vote. And because older voters who outnumber younger voters massively-abstained because of May's attacks on the old. It wont happen next time. The Stalinists who support Corbyn should remember the old Russian proverb: "dont cook your rabbit before you catch it"
In 1964 Wilson having had a double digit lead over Home for several months scraped in with a majority of 4. In 1986 Kinnock had a 12 point lead over Thatcher, but lost the general election of 1987. Ed Miliband had a 12 point lead over Cameron in 2012, lost the election in 2015.
......Corbyn is 4 points ahead in some polls today, 2 points behind in one, and Labour chanting mindlessly like a Nuremburg rally is a government in waiting?
Really?
Well he is doing much better than Gaitskell managed four months following the 1959 election!
Gaitskell dropped dead in 1963 and was younger than Corbyn.
Comments
LAB: 43% (+1)
CON: 39% (-2)
LDEM: 7% (-)
via @YouGov, 22 - 24 Sep
h/t @SamCoatesTimes
The pound has devalued since the EU ref, but that's not the same as a run. For reference, it also devalued a fair bit post 2008 during the great recession.
Since then there was a reasonable recovery up until 2015, and it's now given up much of those gains - though strengthened a bit recently.
If we win The Ashes, then we're going to win it with 2 batsman in the top 5.
Stokes, Bairstow, and Ali are going to be crucial.
We could be looking at a labour landslide within a year.
Exciting times.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/912789868312453120
Labour may very well win, and may very well lose.
No amount of negative truths about Corbyn and his gang of Venezuelan loving Marxist types seem to dent people's willingness to give his bonkers ideas a go.
NEW THREAD
On the subject of the varieties of Magic Money Trees, Why is an economy based on state debt any worse than one based on ever increasing consumer and household debt?
The Tory MMT has blue flowers, the Labour Red ones, but they are the same tree
In any case, there's difference between an adjustment, of perhaps 10% to 20%, and a run on the pound, of the sort McDonnell is wisely assuming might happen if, God forbid, the unthinkable happens and he enters into No 11.
......Corbyn is 4 points ahead in some polls today, 2 points behind in one, and Labour chanting mindlessly like a Nuremburg rally is a government in waiting?
Really?