The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've alienated an entire generation to the extent Corbyn looks like the less hateful option. I should've spotted it before the election that I had friends who were fairly sceptical about Corbyn the man and his promises but said they felt they had no choice but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go for everyone, but it makes people who normally should be ripe to be plucked by the Conservatives with a few choice policies turn on them and want to put whatever scepticism they have about Corbyn aside instead. Corbyn versus a moderate, liberal Conservative government? Not a hope. Against an illiberal one more interested in placating its own extremists. He can win.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
My view: there was little, if no, reason for Vettel to make such a heavy move.
And Ferrari's tweet was awful: they really are F1's Apple.
Panelbase Scottish Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP is at 41% (+4% since June). The Tories are on 27% (-2%), Labour on 24% (-3%), Lib Dems on 6% (-1%) and Greens on 2% (+2%).
Quite close to the Panelbase Holyrood poll last week that the Scotch subsamplers were pooh-poohing (they seem to be in possession of quite a lot of pooh). Holyrood constituency polling has mostly been a reasonable surrogate for WM vi.
If I maybe so bold, looking at the wider Panelbase polling and other Scottish polling, it seems the Scots are still keen on voting for the SNP but less keen on backing Independence.
That's kind of always been a thing, since 2007 anyway. Still, indy support up, pro EU membership up, Brexitory credibility ever more diaphanous; one must seek succour where one can.
If Brexit continues on its current trajectory I won't be shocked to see polling showing Yes to Independence ahead in the next six months.
Yes to independence was ahead on occasion after 2014 it has been in decline since Brexit in the last few months and the SNP crashed in June. Of course now the Spanish government are sending the army in to stop Catalan nationalists holding even 1 independence referendum Scottish nationalists having already had 1 referendum can have no complaints about the British government not giving them another
All pollsters are now no longer overcompensating for their overestimation of Labour in 2015 as they did in 2017
Sorry to snip out just one sentence, but that's an interesting betting-related point. Have any, some or all posters changed their methodology since June?
I am looking at going to the Russia World cup.
I recall you had a good Moscow hotel, could you remind me of it? Anything in St Petersberg too? going with Fox jr.
It was the Ibis - in fact my review appears top of the Tripadvisor list, and the other reviews seem to generally agree:
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
Panelbase Scottish Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP is at 41% (+4% since June). The Tories are on 27% (-2%), Labour on 24% (-3%), Lib Dems on 6% (-1%) and Greens on 2% (+2%).
Quite close to the Panelbase Holyrood poll last week that the Scotch subsamplers were pooh-poohing (they seem to be in possession of quite a lot of pooh). Holyrood constituency polling has mostly been a reasonable surrogate for WM vi.
If I maybe so bold, looking at the wider Panelbase polling and other Scottish polling, it seems the Scots are still keen on voting for the SNP but less keen on backing Independence.
That's kind of always been a thing, since 2007 anyway. Still, indy support up, pro EU membership up, Brexitory credibility ever more diaphanous; one must seek succour where one can.
Structurally everything is set up for Labour to be forced onto the fence somewhat on independence. That would be a game changer.
Yes well I hope you will be manning the barricades for the Catalan nationalists too in your bid to break up every nation into regions and absorb them into supranational superstates
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've alienated an entire generation to the extent Corbyn looks like the less hateful option. I should've spotted it before the election that I had friends who were fairly sceptical about Corbyn the man and his promises but said they felt they had no choice but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go for everyone, but it makes people who normally should be ripe to be plucked by the Conservatives with a few choice policies turn on them and want to put whatever scepticism they have about Corbyn aside instead. Corbyn versus a moderate, liberal Conservative government? Not a hope. Against an illiberal one more interested in placating its own extremists. He can win.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Yes well I hope you will be manning the barricades for the Catalan nationalists too in your bid to break up every nation into regions and absorb them into supranational superstates
The cognitive dissonance is amazing. The UK is a supranational superstate. You may think that's a good thing and that we're 'better together', but call a spade a spade.
As for suggesting the SNP should be thankful we're not sending the army in...
Panelbase Scottish Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP is at 41% (+4% since June). The Tories are on 27% (-2%), Labour on 24% (-3%), Lib Dems on 6% (-1%) and Greens on 2% (+2%).
Quite close to the Panelbase Holyrood poll last week that the Scotch subsamplers were pooh-poohing (they seem to be in possession of quite a lot of pooh). Holyrood constituency polling has mostly been a reasonable surrogate for WM vi.
If I maybe so bold, looking at the wider Panelbase polling and other Scottish polling, it seems the Scots are still keen on voting for the SNP but less keen on backing Independence.
That's kind of always been a thing, since 2007 anyway. Still, indy support up, pro EU membership up, Brexitory credibility ever more diaphanous; one must seek succour where one can.
If Brexit continues on its current trajectory I won't be shocked to see polling showing Yes to Independence ahead in the next six months.
Yes to independence was ahead on occasion after 2014 it has been in decline since Brexit in the last few months and the SNP crashed in June. Of course now the Spanish government are sending the army in to stop Catalan nationalists holding even 1 independence referendum Scottish nationalists having already had 1 referendum can have no complaints about the British government not giving them another
The Spanish government's actions can set a precedent for the UK one?
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time ay in the latter
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've alienated an entire generation to the extent Corbyn looks like the less hateful option. I should've spotted it before the election that I had friends who were fairly sceptical about Corbyn the man and his promises but said they felt they had no choice but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go for everyone, but it makes people who normally should be ripe to be plucked by the Conservatives with a few choice policies turn on them and want to put whatever scepticism they have about Corbyn aside instead. Corbyn versus a moderate, liberal Conservative government? Not a hope. Against an illiberal one more interested in placating its own extremists. He can win.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
Panelbase Scottish Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP is at 41% (+4% since June). The Tories are on 27% (-2%), Labour on 24% (-3%), Lib Dems on 6% (-1%) and Greens on 2% (+2%).
Quite close to the Panelbase Holyrood poll last week that the Scotch subsamplers were pooh-poohing (they seem to be in possession of quite a lot of pooh). Holyrood constituency polling has mostly been a reasonable surrogate for WM vi.
If I maybe so bold, looking at the wider Panelbase polling and other Scottish polling, it seems the Scots are still keen on voting for the SNP but less keen on backing Independence.
That's kind of always been a thing, since 2007 anyway. Still, indy support up, pro EU membership up, Brexitory credibility ever more diaphanous; one must seek succour where one can.
Structurally everything is set up for Labour to be forced onto the fence somewhat on independence. That would be a game changer.
I really think Corbyn is already more or less on the fence on this, from lack of interest as much as anything. However rump SLab is constitutionally (haha) Unionist, including the Corbynite candidate Richard Leonard who seems well in touch with his inner Rajoy..
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
My view: there was little, if no, reason for Vettel to make such a heavy move.
And Ferrari's tweet was awful: they really are F1's Apple.
Ferrari are F1's Android/Galaxy Note 7.
Mercedes are F1's Apple, elegant, sleek, on the cutting edge of technology, worth every penny.
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
Reviewing it in slomo is slightly deceptive - Verstappen, for example, would not have had time to see both Vettel and Raikkonen until it was too late, but if you're looking at the slowed down replay from the front, you can identify a fraction of an instant when he might have prevented the accident by lifting.
(And as the Nascar guy said on C4, even if Vettel had a spotter who'd said "three wide", he might still not have had time to leave a bit more room after the initial steer to his left.)
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've alienated an entire generation to the extent Corbyn looks like the less hateful option. I should've spotted it before the election that I had friends who were fairly sceptical about Corbyn the man and his promises but said they felt they had no choice but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go for everyone, but it makes people who normally should be ripe to be plucked by the Conservatives with a few choice policies turn on them and want to put whatever scepticism they have about Corbyn aside instead. Corbyn versus a moderate, liberal Conservative government? Not a hope. Against an illiberal one more interested in placating its own extremists. He can win.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
How many times did you say Brexit ?
Yet you never mentioned that Osborne's freezing of the student debt floor will cost most graduates £6,000.
Its rather revealing how so many people want to ignore that issue.
In politics today it is likely Boris will become more popular the more the experts attack him.
And I am agnostic on Boris
Absolutely! Boris is modelling himself on Trump - the more outlandish and maverick you appear, and the more the boring mainstream gets upset by it, the more you will cement a cult-like following. Boris will make himself Donald to Theresa's Hilary.
All pollsters are now no longer overcompensating for their overestimation of Labour in 2015 as they did in 2017
Sorry to snip out just one sentence, but that's an interesting betting-related point. Have any, some or all posters changed their methodology since June?
I am looking at going to the Russia World cup.
I recall you had a good Moscow hotel, could you remind me of it? Anything in St Petersberg too? going with Fox jr.
It was the Ibis - in fact my review appears top of the Tripadvisor list, and the other reviews seem to generally agree:
All pollsters are now no longer overcompensating for their overestimation of Labour in 2015 as they did in 2017
Sorry to snip out just one sentence, but that's an interesting betting-related point. Have any, some or all posters changed their methodology since June?
I am looking at going to the Russia World cup.
I recall you had a good Moscow hotel, could you remind me of it? Anything in St Petersberg too? going with Fox jr.
It was the Ibis - in fact my review appears top of the Tripadvisor list, and the other reviews seem to generally agree:
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
My view: there was little, if no, reason for Vettel to make such a heavy move.
And Ferrari's tweet was awful: they really are F1's Apple.
Ferrari are F1's Android/Galaxy Note 7.
Mercedes are F1's Apple, elegant, sleek, on the cutting edge of technology, worth every penny.
Nah, Maldando was the Note 7.
Mercedes are Samsung and Android. Good and workable, not a massive amount of fuss. Gets the job done well. Fairly open.
Ferrari are Apple: showy, whingy, a company that believes that they deserve success, and with fans who would buy a piece of sh*t it it had the right badge. Closed and secretive.
(Actually, have you heard about Apple's 'Town Square' concept for their shops? They're getting more Big Brother all the time: no-one could have guessed that the '1984 advert they used that year was actually their objective for the company).
I don't think Sir David has a chance here. Boris's people will crush him. How long before the insinuation is made that Sir David is a Remain stooge and therefore a traitor and of no consequence?
Panelbase Scottish Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP is at 41% (+4% since June). The Tories are on 27% (-2%), Labour on 24% (-3%), Lib Dems on 6% (-1%) and Greens on 2% (+2%).
Quite close to the Panelbase Holyrood poll last week that the Scotch subsamplers were pooh-poohing (they seem to be in possession of quite a lot of pooh). Holyrood constituency polling has mostly been a reasonable surrogate for WM vi.
If I maybe so bold, looking at the wider Panelbase polling and other Scottish polling, it seems the Scots are still keen on voting for the SNP but less keen on backing Independence.
That's kind of always been a thing, since 2007 anyway. Still, indy support up, pro EU membership up, Brexitory credibility ever more diaphanous; one must seek succour where one can.
Structurally everything is set up for Labour to be forced onto the fence somewhat on independence. That would be a game changer.
It would indeed. It would take the Conservatives over 30% in Scotland.
I don't think Sir David has a chance here. Boris's people will crush him. How long before the insinuation is made that Sir David is a Remain stooge and therefore a traitor and of no consequence?
I can’t help wondering what Boris’ FO officials think of him rubbishing a person like Sir David. I wonder whether he’ll find himself in an extrememly emabrrasing situation shortly.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
There is nothing more depressing than clever people like @Casino_Royale pretending to be thick to make a party political point. The links/overlaps/commonalities between the current Australian Gay Marriage consultation and Brexit are these.#1 A centre right PM wanted to go down the referendum route to settle an identity issue that was splitting his party and he had no majority for. #2 When parliament voted down the referendum legislation many in the debate explicitly referenced our Brexit referendum as a model to avoid both in terms of delegating parliamentary functions to a referendum. They also cited culture war fears in the light of our vote and the effect that could have on LGBT communities. #3 When the referendum legislation failed the government proceeded anyway with a publically funded all postal non bind consultation. But one asking a binary question with only a Yes/No answer properly. #4 Even that was delayed by legal challenges over whether the cost of the consultation could be authorised under dusting legislation in the absence of dedicated referendum legislation which parliament rejected.
There seem to be clear echos of our Brexit debate from Cameron's referendum pledge through to the Miller case.
That all this is taking place in an anglophone commonwealth democracy a year after our own referendum should be perfectly reasonable grounds to reference it in a debate. More so when it was the third media link in a series of three the first two being the Catalonian and Kurdish independence votes which are happening in the next fortnight. Two legally dubious votes which are throwing up so many similar issues to what the UK has been through twice now with #indyref and #euref.
But apparently gently offering a choice of or international contexts for our own mudslinging makes me a " fanatic ".
That's rather like having a cryptic crossword explained. I now see the point you were making, but it was not immediately apparent.
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go for everyone, but it makes people who normally should be ripe to be plucked by the Conservatives with a few choice policies turn on them and want to put whatever scepticism they have about Corbyn aside instead. Corbyn versus a moderate, liberal Conservative government? Not a hope. Against an illiberal one more interested in placating its own extremists. He can win.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
You are missing the key point which is that Osborne had a narrative that there was some short term pain for long term gain. People could see the light at the end of the tunnel, with wages growing faster than inflation, and economic growth greater than anywhere else in the G8.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
The elite are more likely to experience the benefits of EU integration and are more liberal and optimistic. Meanwhile, there is simmering discontent within the public, large sections of whom view the EU in negative terms, want to see it return some powers to member states, and feel anxious over the effects of immigration. Only 34% of the public feel they have benefited from the EU, compared with 71% of the elite. A majority of the public (54%) think their country was a better place to live 20 years ago.
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
Reviewing it in slomo is slightly deceptive - Verstappen, for example, would not have had time to see both Vettel and Raikkonen until it was too late, but if you're looking at the slowed down replay from the front, you can identify a fraction of an instant when he might have prevented the accident by lifting.
(And as the Nascar guy said on C4, even if Vettel had a spotter who'd said "three wide", he might still not have had time to leave a bit more room after the initial steer to his left.)
If they’d had spotters they’d have been able to see nothing bar the wall of water. NASCAR namby pambies give up when it rains!
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've alienated an entire generation to the extent Corbyn looks like the less hateful option. I should've spotted it before the election that I had friends who were fairly sceptical about Corbyn the man and his promises but said they felt they had no choice but to a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go for everyone, but it makes people who normally should be ripe to be plucked by the Conservatives with a few choice policies turn on them and want to put whatever scepticism they have about Corbyn aside instead. Corbyn versus a moderate, liberal Conservative government? Not a hope. Against an illiberal one more interested in placating its own extremists. He can win.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Brexit would have happened sooner or later. British public opinion is strongly eurosceptic, and we were not happy members of the EU.
Whether Corbyn wins next time will turn on how many people would expect to suffer at the hands of his government.
Mr. Eagles, just a lap 1 racing incident, in my book. Shame, I want the title fight to be close. Not sure if I make more if Bottas is 2nd, now I come to think of it. Probably not.
Dangerous driving by Seb, he deserves a 20 place grid penalty for the next three races.
Not sure it's quite as clearcut as that - probably didn't imagine that Raikkonen would get the drop on him as well as Verstappen - but it was pretty stupid given the state of the championship.
For Ferrari to blame Verstappen is both risible and contemptible.
Reviewing it in slomo is slightly deceptive - Verstappen, for example, would not have had time to see both Vettel and Raikkonen until it was too late, but if you're looking at the slowed down replay from the front, you can identify a fraction of an instant when he might have prevented the accident by lifting.
(And as the Nascar guy said on C4, even if Vettel had a spotter who'd said "three wide", he might still not have had time to leave a bit more room after the initial steer to his left.)
If they’d had spotters they’d have been able to see nothing bar the wall of water. NASCAR namby pambies give up when it rains!
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
We all know local election electorates are different to GE electorates. The difference between the voting figures for 25-45-year-olds in 2015 and 2017 are astonishing. Going on YouGov's post-election surveys, in 2015 the Tories led by two points among 30-39 -year-olds. In 2017 they lost by 26 points! These aren't Glastonbury-going Corbyn chanting students, they're people at the age where apolitical people, historically, turn conservative. I think the 'crossover' age used to be around 34. It's now 47.
So ask yourself what can have changed? Does Corbyn have a unique appeal to these people who hitherto tended to split relatively evenly between Labour and Tory? It seems extremely unlikely - everyone under 40 didn't suddenly develop a taste for cod revolutionaries. No one 30-40 had to pay £9,000 tuition fees. Of course Osborne and Cameron wouldn't be immune to Corbynism, but these shouldn't be Corbynites. These are people who would like to be able to buy property and traditionally have started moving towards the conservatives - why are they now flocking to Labour? A far more plausible explanation is that these more liberal younger people find the current direction of the Tory Party offensive, and this is a problem compounded by the fact they see it as acting against their economic as well as cultural interests, as Brexit, particularly when its as poorly conducted as now, has removed the economic light at the end of the tunnel that was an explicit part of Cameron and Osborne's austerity pitch. You've removed that hope for many younger people who, even if they hadn't really given the EU much thought before 2016, now find themselves politicised because they certainly don't want to live in an ersatz Faragist Britain and don't want to become poorer doing so.
I think you, and the Tories, underestimate the Pandora's box and splits Brexit has opened up, and it's given Corbyn the chance to be elected as PM because for a lot of people he's the lesser devil than the Tory right. At least when he screws things up it would be an accident, rather than out of malice, is the thought.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
You are missing the key point which is that Osborne had a narrative that there was some short term pain for long term gain. People could see the light at the end of the tunnel, with wages growing faster than inflation, and economic growth greater than anywhere else in the G8.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
Brexit was not something that the Tories Imposed on an unwilling populace. The populace voted for it.
A question: would the needs of broadcasters make them want to actually limit the length? The party would want enough to seem impressive to the average viewer, but not so much that the broadcasters would cut back to the studio?
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No Tory gave a flying fig about that when he introduced it. It's just something supporters of the current lot have dug up in order to persuade themselves that the rise of Jezza is someone else's fault.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No Tory gave a flying fig about that when he introduced it. It's just something supporters of the current lot have dug up in order to persuade themselves that the rise of Jezza is someone else's fault.
Perhaps, they ought to have about it, when he introduced it.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blockquote class="Quote" rel="MJW">
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
The Tories increased student fees by £18,000 and went from a minority to a majority government.
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it was so there'd be light at the end of the tunnel. The Tories' successful message in 2015 was - we've come through most of the pain, stick with us and we'll finish the job. You had the odd giveaway like help to buy designed to reinforce that message and the Tories held their own with 25-45-year-olds - as they should do.
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
You are missing the key point which is that Osborne had a narrative that there was some short term pain for long term gain. People could see the light at the end of the tunnel, with wages growing faster than inflation, and economic growth greater than anywhere else in the G8.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
Brexit was not something that the Tories Imposed on an unwilling populace. The populace voted for it.
If you think that line of reasoning will help when things go wrong in politics you haven't been paying attention.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No Tory gave a flying fig about that when he introduced it. It's just something supporters of the current lot have dug up in order to persuade themselves that the rise of Jezza is someone else's fault.
More fool those Tories.
But we already knew that most of them were fools for tripling tuition fees in the first place.
Nevertheless Osborne's freezing of the earnings repayment level added another dose of political poison to the Conservative image among new graduates.
Its about time that the Osborne cheerleaders accept reality - your hero fcked up big with that decision.
Can't help but think this misreads the Tories' big problem, which is that via wage stagnation and Brexit they've but to vote Labour so deep was their objection to the Tories' behaviour. Think about it. You're in your early 30s, earning less than you thought you would, no longer expect to own your own home soon and feel economically insecure . You'll have graduated around the time of the financial crisis and spent most of your working life under a Tory government that preached short term austerity not as an ideological measure but as a necessity and were told it
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
You are missing the key point which is that Osborne had a narrative that there was some short term pain for long term gain. People could see the light at the end of the tunnel, with wages growing faster than inflation, and economic growth greater than anywhere else in the G8.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
Brexit was not something that the Tories Imposed on an unwilling populace. The populace voted for it.
If you think that line of reasoning will help when things go wrong in politics you haven't been paying attention.
It depends whether things go wrong, and who gets the blame for things going wrong.
But, I think the Conservatives' position would be a good deal more vulnerable had they simply voted Brexit through Parliament, without public approval.
In politics today it is likely Boris will become more popular the more the experts attack him.
And I am agnostic on Boris
Absolutely! Boris is modelling himself on Trump - the more outlandish and maverick you appear, and the more the boring mainstream gets upset by it, the more you will cement a cult-like following. Boris will make himself Donald to Theresa's Hilary.
Isn't Jezza more like Donald to Theresa's Hillary? Boris is probably Bernie Sanders...
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blockquote class="Quote" rel="MJW">
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
The Tories increased student fees by £18,000 and went from a minority to a majority government.
They had the Lib Dems take the flack, to their considerable advantage.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No Tory gave a flying fig about that when he introduced it. It's just something supporters of the current lot have dug up in order to persuade themselves that the rise of Jezza is someone else's fault.
More fool those Tories.
But we already knew that most of them were fools for tripling tuition fees in the first place.
Nevertheless Osborne's freezing of the earnings repayment level added another dose of political poison to the Conservative image among new graduates.
Its about time that the Osborne cheerleaders accept reality - your hero fcked up big with that decision.
I thought we had too many students doing worthless degrees. That should slash the numbers a fair bit and get them training as plumbers instead - all the better for when the supply from Poland dries up. Sounds like a masterstroke to me.
In politics today it is likely Boris will become more popular the more the experts attack him.
And I am agnostic on Boris
Absolutely! Boris is modelling himself on Trump - the more outlandish and maverick you appear, and the more the boring mainstream gets upset by it, the more you will cement a cult-like following. Boris will make himself Donald to Theresa's Hilary.
He does not have to model himself on Trump - they are, in my opinion, the same animal.
As far as I am concerned, both are self-seeking, highly-privileged, populists who play to the baser nationalistic instincts of their electorates to gain power. Both will happily ignore any damage they cause as long as they get to the top and stay there. And both have similarly dodgy hair ...
In fact - has anybody ever seen them in the same room at the same time? Can we be sure that they ARE two separate people?
The George Osborne guide to how things should increase:
State pension, +2.9% (guaranteed minimum rise of 2.5%) Public sector pay, +1.0% Interest on student tuition fees debt, +6.9% Earnings level at which student tuition fees debt becomes repayable, no increase
What was that about "we're all in this together" ?
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blockquote class="Quote" rel="MJW">
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
The Tories increased student fees by £18,000 and went from a minority to a majority government.
So by that logic if they keep on increasing student fees they'll keep on getting more votes.
The George Osborne guide to how things should increase:
State pension, +2.9% (guaranteed minimum rise of 2.5%) Public sector pay, +1.0% Interest on student tuition fees debt, +6.9% Earnings level at which student tuition fees debt becomes repayable, no increase
What was that about "we're all in this together" ?
And yet by aiming to implement a headbanging version of Brexit, the current government is tickling the erogenous zones of the oldies still further at the expense of youngsters' dreams.
Of course, the oldies should be required to pay for what they voted for, but no doubt they won't be. The Conservatives seem to be doubling down on their grab-a-granny strategy.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No Tory gave a flying fig about that when he introduced it. It's just something supporters of the current lot have dug up in order to persuade themselves that the rise of Jezza is someone else's fault.
More fool those Tories.
But we already knew that most of them were fools for tripling tuition fees in the first place.
Nevertheless Osborne's freezing of the earnings repayment level added another dose of political poison to the Conservative image among new graduates.
Its about time that the Osborne cheerleaders accept reality - your hero fcked up big with that decision.
I thought we had too many students doing worthless degrees. That should slash the numbers a fair bit and get them training as plumbers instead - all the better for when the supply from Poland dries up. Sounds like a masterstroke to me.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
You are missing the key point which is that Osborne had a narrative that there was some short term pain for long term gain. People could see the light at the end of the tunnel, with wages growing faster than inflation, and economic growth greater than anywhere else in the G8.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
Brexit was not something that the Tories Imposed on an unwilling populace. The populace voted for it.
By 52-48%. And then the Tories had to decide how to interpret and proceed with it. This was May's big error. The first thing she should've been looking to do was reassure the losing side and assuage their biggest concerns - they after all, are the ones who stand to lose things they care about, rights, jobs, identity. Instead, she gave her 'Citizens of Nowhere' speech and did the opposite - confirmed many's worst fears that the Brexit vote was a proxy for a reactionary takeover. The people you are imposing it on don't disappear but still get to vote in future elections, and if they still don't like it, and hate the way you're going about it - they're going to try and give you a kicking. And that's what's happened - the nastier elements of the Leave campaign have now contaminated the Tories for younger voters, who were already annoyed that they weren't doing much to help economically. Thus, even if you're sceptical of Corbyn, you vote Labour because the Tories give the impression they are not just unconcerned about you but actively want to harm your interests to placate another part of the electorate.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
"robbing" ?
"robbing" is rather strong, but the government have unilaterally varied the terms of repayment, with this fiscal drag and also the doubling of interest rates.
The George Osborne guide to how things should increase:
State pension, +2.9% (guaranteed minimum rise of 2.5%) Public sector pay, +1.0% Interest on student tuition fees debt, +6.9% Earnings level at which student tuition fees debt becomes repayable, no increase
What was that about "we're all in this together" ?
And yet by aiming to implement a headbanging version of Brexit, the current government is tickling the erogenous zones of the oldies still further at the expense of youngsters' dreams.
Of course, the oldies should be required to pay for what they voted for, but no doubt they won't be. The Conservatives seem to be doubling down on their grab-a-granny strategy.
My idea would be set all four levels of increase at CPI.
The problem is that once you start handing out the goodies eg triple lock pensions it becomes very hard to stop doing so.
Triple lock pensions, that's right another George Osborne idea of how to shift wealth from the young to the old.
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
You are missing the key point which is that Osborne had a narrative that there was some short term pain for long term gain. People could see the light at the end of the tunnel, with wages growing faster than inflation, and economic growth greater than anywhere else in the G8.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
Brexit was not something that the Tories Imposed on an unwilling populace. The populace voted for it.
By 52-48%. And then the Tories had to decide how to interpret and proceed with it. This was May's big error. The first thing she should've been looking to do was reassure the losing side and assuage their biggest concerns - they after all, are the ones who stand to lose things they care about, rights, jobs, identity. Instead, she gave her 'Citizens of Nowhere' speech and did the opposite - confirmed many's worst fears that the Brexit vote was a proxy for a reactionary takeover. The people you are imposing it on don't disappear but still get to vote in future elections, and if they still don't like it, and hate the way you're going about it - they're going to try and give you a kicking. And that's what's happened - the nastier elements of the Leave campaign have now contaminated the Tories for younger voters, who were already annoyed that they weren't doing much to help economically. Thus, even if you're sceptical of Corbyn, you vote Labour because the Tories give the impression they are not just unconcerned about you but actively want to harm your interests to placate another part of the electorate.
We seriously need the "Like" button back on PB ....
Corbyn beat the Tories in the 2016 local elections pre Brexit the Tories beat him in the 2017 locals and general post Brexit. The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
You are missing the key point which is that Osborne had a narrative that there was some short term pain for long term gain. People could see the light at the end of the tunnel, with wages growing faster than inflation, and economic growth greater than anywhere else in the G8.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
Brexit was not something that the Tories Imposed on an unwilling populace. The populace voted for it.
By 52-48%. And then the Tories had to decide how to interpret and proceed with it. This was May's big error. The first thing she should've been looking to do was reassure the losing side and assuage their biggest concerns - they after all, are the ones who stand to lose things they care about, rights, jobs, identity. Instead, she gave her 'Citizens of Nowhere' speech and did the opposite - confirmed many's worst fears that the Brexit vote was a proxy for a reactionary takeover. The people you are imposing it on don't disappear but still get to vote in future elections, and if they still don't like it, and hate the way you're going about it - they're going to try and give you a kicking. And that's what's happened - the nastier elements of the Leave campaign have now contaminated the Tories for younger voters, who were already annoyed that they weren't doing much to help economically. Thus, even if you're sceptical of Corbyn, you vote Labour because the Tories give the impression they are not just unconcerned about you but actively want to harm your interests to placate another part of the electorate.
And yet, 38% of 25-34 year olds voted for Brexit as did 48% of 35-44 year olds. A minority, but a large minority, and certainly a good deal higher than the Conservatives polled among those age cohorts. So, obviously, there were things other than Brexit that depressed Conservative support among them.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
I think that would be the case for a LOT of professions. One of my friends has a daughter who is doing her degree via work experience combined with study. She will receive a professional, industry standard qualification and she is in a job earning a wage. In 6 years she will get qualified, be working with a career history and no debt.
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
"robbing" ?
"robbing" is rather strong, but the government have unilaterally varied the terms of repayment, with this fiscal drag and also the doubling of interest rates.
For people who have taken a university course under one set of financial assumptions to have them changed is indeed effectively robbing them.
It also leads to concern that further detrimental changes may be made - more fiscal drag or an extended repayment period for example.
The Tories did not get a majority because of the dementia tax etc which will be dropped next time and as Corbyn neutralised the Brexit issue which he can't do next time. Next time the Tories will be more realistic focusing on holding seats and a few targets not unrealistic targets and getting a majority however small, my seat for example last time targeted Ilford North and Enfield North to send workers which even Ed Miliband won next time Tory workers will be sent to Thurrock and Chingford and indeed local Tories have already attended an action day in the latter
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blockquote class="Quote" rel="MJW">
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
The Tories increased student fees by £18,000 and went from a minority to a majority government.
So by that logic if they keep on increasing student fees they'll keep on getting more votes.
Well its a point of view.
I think the logic of what it shows is quite obvious.
With the right narrative, costs can be increased but voters still kept on side.
With the wrong narrative, you can cut costs as much as you want but still not win over any voters.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
I think that would be the case for a LOT of professions. One of my friends has a daughter who is doing her degree via work experience combined with study. She will receive a professional, industry standard qualification and she is in a job earning a wage. In 6 years she will get qualified, be working with a career history and no debt.
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
Great point this - or, where suitable do as a shorter one or a two year degree with work experience. Would also be useful as people are likely going to need to retrain much more often when opportunities dry up in certain professions due to technological change.
The George Osborne guide to how things should increase:
State pension, +2.9% (guaranteed minimum rise of 2.5%) Public sector pay, +1.0% Interest on student tuition fees debt, +6.9% Earnings level at which student tuition fees debt becomes repayable, no increase
What was that about "we're all in this together" ?
Osborne never really understood the average Conservative supporter: the small business owner, the small town solicitor or village doctor; the affluent professional working his way up the ladder. We knew this from his first omnishambles budget. The rest of the Cameroons and many in New Labour were similarly out of touch.
Most people haven't sailed effortlessly through life, from expensive school to Oxbridge to internships and jobs through introductions made and doors opened by family connections. Most people don't have trust funds, or £50,000 a year from shares in mum and dad's company. Most people, truth be told, aren't even exceptionally bright.
Maybe that is to put it the wrong way round. It is not that they do not understand differences, but they do not even realise there are differences. They believe, perhaps like all of us to a lesser extent, they are typical. They don't know that their lives are not normal.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
I think that would be the case for a LOT of professions. One of my friends has a daughter who is doing her degree via work experience combined with study. She will receive a professional, industry standard qualification and she is in a job earning a wage. In 6 years she will get qualified, be working with a career history and no debt.
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
Yep, white collar apprenticeships should be encouraged as alternatives to the degree+training route. I know a few accountants and IT guys who went down that route. Used to be quite common for the lawyers too.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
I think that would be the case for a LOT of professions. One of my friends has a daughter who is doing her degree via work experience combined with study. She will receive a professional, industry standard qualification and she is in a job earning a wage. In 6 years she will get qualified, be working with a career history and no debt.
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
Yep, white collar apprenticeships should be encouraged as alternatives to the degree+training route. I know a few accountants and IT guys who went down that route. Used to be quite common for the lawyers too.
IT is a good example. I did computer science degree. A lot of it is high level, training to work at the very cutting edge of the subject or further research. Lot of high end maths for example on theory of computation. Some students need this kind of level. If you are planning to build AI at Google - for sure. But IT industry needs a lot of people at a much lower level.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
Spot on. I don't think a large proportion of the Tories realise how totally they have destroyed their reputation amongst the middle aged and younger.
Do you think that Osborne's freezing of the level at which student debt repayments take place was part of that ?
No.
So robbing most graduates of £6,000 doesn't damage the Conservative Party in their eyes.
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
The Tories increased student fees by £18,000 and went from a minority to a majority government.
So by that logic if they keep on increasing student fees they'll keep on getting more votes.
Well its a point of view.
I think the logic of what it shows is quite obvious.
With the right narrative, costs can be increased but voters still kept on side.
With the wrong narrative, you can cut costs as much as you want but still not win over any voters.
The right narrative includes having someone else to take the blame - in 2015 it was the LibDems and the previous Labour government.
But from then on Cameron and Osborne were on their own and needed to be aware of the consequences of their own actions. Instead they developed an aura of arrogance and thought that people would accept any old shite dropped on them without consequences.
So we had the changes to student debt repayments, the failed 2016 Budget, the EU renegotiation and then the EU Referendum.
Hinkley Point C is another thing from that period which will likely have long term adverse consequences.
I would have thought the mechanics for getting around the hall mean it must be between 2:30 and 3:15 so I offer 2 mins 49 secs. They will definitely all stand.
The £350M is a very strange one not because I agree or disagree with it. But, surely it is a pledge which is bound to be met. Where the money actually comes from is as meaningless as saying I paid for my fish supper with the money I got for working on that particular 40 mins or whatever. As far as I can see the NHS is bound to need much more than an extra £350M per week ( £17B or £18B per annum ?) just to remain solvent in the medium term. Yes, we would still have had to have paid it if we had stayed in the EU. When it comes to paying for the NHS £350M per week is chicken feed.
The elite are more likely to experience the benefits of EU integration and are more liberal and optimistic. Meanwhile, there is simmering discontent within the public, large sections of whom view the EU in negative terms, want to see it return some powers to member states, and feel anxious over the effects of immigration. Only 34% of the public feel they have benefited from the EU, compared with 71% of the elite. A majority of the public (54%) think their country was a better place to live 20 years ago.
You see the same figures - about benefiting from the status quo - everywhere in the developed world (with the exception of countries that are massive commodity exporters).
So I think it's fair to say there are deeper issues than just the EU.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
I think that would be the case for a LOT of professions. One of my friends has a daughter who is doing her degree via work experience combined with study. She will receive a professional, industry standard qualification and she is in a job earning a wage. In 6 years she will get qualified, be working with a career history and no debt.
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
Indeed so.
It really should be encouraged in those careers where membership of a professional body is the result.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
I think that would be the case for a LOT of professions. One of my friends has a daughter who is doing her degree via work experience combined with study. She will receive a professional, industry standard qualification and she is in a job earning a wage. In 6 years she will get qualified, be working with a career history and no debt.
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
Yep, white collar apprenticeships should be encouraged as alternatives to the degree+training route. I know a few accountants and IT guys who went down that route. Used to be quite common for the lawyers too.
IT is a good example. I did computer science degree. A lot of it is high level, training to work at the very cutting edge of the subject or further research. Lot of high end maths for example on theory of computation. Some students need this kind of level. If you are planning to build AI at Google - for sure. But IT industry needs a lot of people at a much lower level.
A two year IT qualification would be fine.
Is this the point to mention HNDs?
Yep, I’m in IT, most people are much better going (well supervised!) in at the bottom and there’s loads of professional qualifications (MCP, CCNP, PMP etc) for various disciplines on the admin side, on the dev side most people can learn a language in a few weeks (and will probably do this several times during their careers) rather than via a Comp Sci degree.
Yes if you want to go and work for Google or Apple, you’ll be wanting probably a PhD these days, but those are the exceptional IT jobs rather than the norm. Which is interesting given that almost all the biggest tech companies were started by college dropouts.
I would have thought the mechanics for getting around the hall mean it must be between 2:30 and 3:15 so I offer 2 mins 49 secs. They will definitely all stand.
The £350M is a very strange one not because I agree or disagree with it. But, surely it is a pledge which is bound to be met. Where the money actually comes from is as meaningless as saying I paid for my fish supper with the money I got for working on that particular 40 mins or whatever. As far as I can see the NHS is bound to need much more than an extra £350M per week ( £17B or £18B per annum ?) just to remain solvent in the medium term. Yes, we would still have had to have paid it if we had stayed in the EU. When it comes to paying for the NHS £350M per week is chicken feed.
The planned spend is already £5billion more than 2015/16 by 2021 (King's Fund).
The problem isn't the pledge to spend it on the NHS as much as the figure is a lie. There is no £350m a week going to EU. We have a rebate.
The other, more subtle point is that some of the saved EU money will have to be ringfenced for farmers, regional development etc etc.
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
Brexit was not something that the Tories Imposed on an unwilling populace. The populace voted for it.
And yet, 38% of 25-34 year olds voted for Brexit as did 48% of 35-44 year olds. A minority, but a large minority, and certainly a good deal higher than the Conservatives polled among those age cohorts. So, obviously, there were things other than Brexit that depressed Conservative support among them.
Indeed - as I said. A lot were already fairly peeved with the conservatives over, not austerity per se, but wage stagnation and job insecurity. I think there's little doubt however that Brexit, has harmed them badly both directly - through liberal voters with conservative economic interests turning away, and indirectly as it has led to them forfeiting the 'don't risk the recovery' narrative that was so successful in 2015. Corbyn's promises become much less absurd when his opponents are also proposing implausible platitudes themselves.
There's two elements to it. The first is the Brexit-Remain culture war, which will long continue and mean people are less likely to vote directly in their dry economic interest. This harms Corbyn among the old and in some heartlands but gives him the support of voters who'd normally be turned off by his politics - especially when the Tories go all Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells and lose their marbles over Brexit. It unquestionably was a big reasonwhy May wasn't able to savage Corbyn as expected. A lot of people who didn't vote Labour in the locals and ummed and ahhed, ultimately decided in a GE to hold their nose. The second is the sense of revolution overturning the status quo - which helps Corbyn get a hearing because sensible steady-as-she-goes government isn't an option with Brexit on the horizon.
It might be if that was the plan - I rather suspect it wasn't though.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
I think that would be the case for a LOT of professions. One of my friends has a daughter who is doing her degree via work experience combined with study. She will receive a professional, industry standard qualification and she is in a job earning a wage. In 6 years she will get qualified, be working with a career history and no debt.
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
Indeed so.
It really should be encouraged in those careers where membership of a professional body is the result.
One of the strangest moves made in recent years in this area was surely to make nursing a degree-based profession? Being married to a nurse I appreciate there is a lot of knowledge to acquire and the best nurses are very bright people, as well as caring and dedicated, but it is not primarily an academic profession imho.
I think Norgrove has been very silly. What Boris said was technically right. It is up to others in politics to call out the net/gross difference - that is to say, others could say "ah, but if we spend it all on the NHS we'll have to cut spending on agriculture, science, etc."
It is not for a civil servant to get involved in a political argument.
I think Norgrove has been very silly. What Boris said was technically right. It is up to others in politics to call out the net/gross difference - that is to say, others could say "ah, but if we spend it all on the NHS we'll have to cut spending on agriculture, science, etc."
It is not for a civil servant to get involved in a political argument.
No, what Boris said was not technically right. We can't take control of £350m a week because we don't send £350m a week to the EU.
I think Norgrove has been very silly. What Boris said was technically right. It is up to others in politics to call out the net/gross difference - that is to say, others could say "ah, but if we spend it all on the NHS we'll have to cut spending on agriculture, science, etc."
It is not for a civil servant to get involved in a political argument.
No, what Boris said was not technically right. We can't take control of £350m a week because we don't send £350m a week to the EU.
Are you talking about rebate? Norgrove's complaint was about net/gross.
My entry is 6 minutes 12 seconds. People pay attention to standing ovations for leaders in trouble, so I expect it to be long.
Wistful thought of the day - what if the 2011 AV referendum question had been "Should the UK remain with First Past the Post or leave to a different system?" I think change would have won easily. However such a precise alternative meant it was easy to attack on the specifics. (And the Government now cannily claims that all change has been rejected when there's a petition for PR.) Contrast with the EU referendum where the Leave option was so vague that Leave campaigners could happily contradict each other and everyone could project their frustrations with the EU, UK Government, British weather etc. onto leave. Cameron really messed up by not getting them tied down into the detail of leave (that we are starting to see now) long before the vote.
tlg86 - no. We would not have £350m to spend if we decided not to spend a penny on agriculture, science etc. The money does not exist. That's why it's a lie and I wish the ONS had put it in such stark terms when it mattered before the referendum.
Yep, I’m in IT, most people are much better going (well supervised!) in at the bottom and there’s loads of professional qualifications (MCP, CCNP, PMP etc) for various disciplines on the admin side, on the dev side most people can learn a language in a few weeks (and will probably do this several times during their careers) rather than via a Comp Sci degree.
Yes indeed. The languages I use today did not exist when I did my degree (with the exception of SQL).
What my degree taught me was how to analyse a program and code a solution in an abstract way which could then be implemented in whatever language that was required. In a way, they taught me meta-coding rather than coding and how to structure and handle and organise data regardless of it physical implementation.
Having since been in the position of having to induct trainees into a corporate environment and training them on languages that academia simply did not cover, I used the four Asimov-like precepts I had been taught.
1. The program must be correct - it must work as specified or else you are wasting everyone's time 2. It must be written as clearly as possible, but point 1 must never be compromised 3. It should be as efficient as possible without compromising points 1 and 2
Comments
Brexit, and in particular the way it's been dealt with by the Tories, has totally blown that out of the water. In 2017, just two years later, they got marmalised among those age groups. If you're that age, you now think we could be looking at another decade of economic turmoil (as even some Brexiteers admit) in pursuit of a policy you at best think is based on the silly capriciousness of some of your elders and is at worst a hateful disaster. Of course that doesn't go for everyone, but it makes people who normally should be ripe to be plucked by the Conservatives with a few choice policies turn on them and want to put whatever scepticism they have about Corbyn aside instead. Corbyn versus a moderate, liberal Conservative government? Not a hope. Against an illiberal one more interested in placating its own extremists. He can win.
If we do end up with a Corbyn government, the Tories will only have themselves to blame for needlessly starting the Brexit culture war and then escalating it.
https://twitter.com/BrexitBin/status/909187341549539329
https://twitter.com/Lab_Westbourne/status/908730872957947904
And Ferrari's tweet was awful: they really are F1's Apple.
Plenty nearby. Is it a good district?
https://streamable.com/oanyl
As for suggesting the SNP should be thankful we're not sending the army in...
And I am agnostic on Boris
The idea a Tory government with Osborne as chancellor who pushed up loan interest repayments and introduced austerity would be immune to Corbynism is not viable, though Osborne did cut IHT which will benefit most young and middle aged people and Corbyn would reverse
https://twitter.com/LabourRichard/status/909046341929717760
Mercedes are F1's Apple, elegant, sleek, on the cutting edge of technology, worth every penny.
(And as the Nascar guy said on C4, even if Vettel had a spotter who'd said "three wide", he might still not have had time to leave a bit more room after the initial steer to his left.)
Yet you never mentioned that Osborne's freezing of the student debt floor will cost most graduates £6,000.
Its rather revealing how so many people want to ignore that issue.
I shall see what else that I can find nearby. I want some sightseeing between matches.
Mercedes are Samsung and Android. Good and workable, not a massive amount of fuss. Gets the job done well. Fairly open.
Ferrari are Apple: showy, whingy, a company that believes that they deserve success, and with fans who would buy a piece of sh*t it it had the right badge. Closed and secretive.
(Actually, have you heard about Apple's 'Town Square' concept for their shops? They're getting more Big Brother all the time: no-one could have guessed that the '1984 advert they used that year was actually their objective for the company).
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/909434324197494785
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/singapore-post-race-analysis-2017.html
Will people who miss the period from the end be disqualified for not following the form?
(I also wondered if I should actually enter figures and just use x xx as in the form, but decided that was a little too silly, even for me.)
Brexit just shows the Tories as nasty and incompetent.
Corbyn may be incompetent but at least he cuts a kindly figure.
No, not Britain - Europe:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/publication/future-europe-comparing-public-and-elite-attitudes
Whether Corbyn wins next time will turn on how many people would expect to suffer at the hands of his government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFm6o-qB6T4
Probably not an issue, I guess?
Well its a point of view.
Is there a point at which being robbed of thousands would have had an effect in your opinion ? £10,000 ? £20,000 ? £50,000 ?
But we already knew that most of them were fools for tripling tuition fees in the first place.
Nevertheless Osborne's freezing of the earnings repayment level added another dose of political poison to the Conservative image among new graduates.
Its about time that the Osborne cheerleaders accept reality - your hero fcked up big with that decision.
But, I think the Conservatives' position would be a good deal more vulnerable had they simply voted Brexit through Parliament, without public approval.
As far as I am concerned, both are self-seeking, highly-privileged, populists who play to the baser nationalistic instincts of their electorates to gain power. Both will happily ignore any damage they cause as long as they get to the top and stay there. And both have similarly dodgy hair ...
In fact - has anybody ever seen them in the same room at the same time? Can we be sure that they ARE two separate people?
State pension, +2.9% (guaranteed minimum rise of 2.5%)
Public sector pay, +1.0%
Interest on student tuition fees debt, +6.9%
Earnings level at which student tuition fees debt becomes repayable, no increase
What was that about "we're all in this together" ?
Well its a point of view.
Of course, the oldies should be required to pay for what they voted for, but no doubt they won't be. The Conservatives seem to be doubling down on their grab-a-granny strategy.
From what Bev C was saying on the previous thread we would be better off if would be IT students got a job related to it rather than 'studied' at university.
The problem is that once you start handing out the goodies eg triple lock pensions it becomes very hard to stop doing so.
Triple lock pensions, that's right another George Osborne idea of how to shift wealth from the young to the old.
We seriously need the "Like" button back on PB ....
Accountancy, law, IT, etc etc... lots of jobs could do this. It would need a snapppy name though. Something like "Modern Apprenticeship"???????
It also leads to concern that further detrimental changes may be made - more fiscal drag or an extended repayment period for example.
With the right narrative, costs can be increased but voters still kept on side.
With the wrong narrative, you can cut costs as much as you want but still not win over any voters.
Most people haven't sailed effortlessly through life, from expensive school to Oxbridge to internships and jobs through introductions made and doors opened by family connections. Most people don't have trust funds, or £50,000 a year from shares in mum and dad's company. Most people, truth be told, aren't even exceptionally bright.
Maybe that is to put it the wrong way round. It is not that they do not understand differences, but they do not even realise there are differences. They believe, perhaps like all of us to a lesser extent, they are typical. They don't know that their lives are not normal.
A two year IT qualification would be fine.
Is this the point to mention HNDs?
But from then on Cameron and Osborne were on their own and needed to be aware of the consequences of their own actions. Instead they developed an aura of arrogance and thought that people would accept any old shite dropped on them without consequences.
So we had the changes to student debt repayments, the failed 2016 Budget, the EU renegotiation and then the EU Referendum.
Hinkley Point C is another thing from that period which will likely have long term adverse consequences.
The £350M is a very strange one not because I agree or disagree with it. But, surely it is a pledge which is bound to be met. Where the money actually comes from is as meaningless as saying I paid for my fish supper with the money I got for working on that particular 40 mins or whatever. As far as I can see the NHS is bound to need much more than an extra £350M per week ( £17B or £18B per annum ?) just to remain solvent in the medium term. Yes, we would still have had to have paid it if we had stayed in the EU. When it comes to paying for the NHS £350M per week is chicken feed.
So I think it's fair to say there are deeper issues than just the EU.
It really should be encouraged in those careers where membership of a professional body is the result.
Yes if you want to go and work for Google or Apple, you’ll be wanting probably a PhD these days, but those are the exceptional IT jobs rather than the norm. Which is interesting given that almost all the biggest tech companies were started by college dropouts.
The problem isn't the pledge to spend it on the NHS as much as the figure is a lie. There is no £350m a week going to EU. We have a rebate.
The other, more subtle point is that some of the saved EU money will have to be ringfenced for farmers, regional development etc etc.
Clearly the silly season doesn't end until after the LibDem conference.
It is not for a civil servant to get involved in a political argument.
Wistful thought of the day - what if the 2011 AV referendum question had been "Should the UK remain with First Past the Post or leave to a different system?" I think change would have won easily. However such a precise alternative meant it was easy to attack on the specifics. (And the Government now cannily claims that all change has been rejected when there's a petition for PR.) Contrast with the EU referendum where the Leave option was so vague that Leave campaigners could happily contradict each other and everyone could project their frustrations with the EU, UK Government, British weather etc. onto leave. Cameron really messed up by not getting them tied down into the detail of leave (that we are starting to see now) long before the vote.
tlg86 - no. We would not have £350m to spend if we decided not to spend a penny on agriculture, science etc. The money does not exist. That's why it's a lie and I wish the ONS had put it in such stark terms when it mattered before the referendum.
What my degree taught me was how to analyse a program and code a solution in an abstract way which could then be implemented in whatever language that was required. In a way, they taught me meta-coding rather than coding and how to structure and handle and organise data regardless of it physical implementation.
Having since been in the position of having to induct trainees into a corporate environment and training them on languages that academia simply did not cover, I used the four Asimov-like precepts I had been taught.
1. The program must be correct - it must work as specified or else you are wasting everyone's time
2. It must be written as clearly as possible, but point 1 must never be compromised
3. It should be as efficient as possible without compromising points 1 and 2
And above all else.... K.I.S.S.