...I am not happy about any of this, but it does appear to me that David Davis has been pretty restrained in his public statements,...
DD said something very interesting just now. From the Guardian live blog:
He says the UK will meet its obligations. But those obligations have to be real, he says.
He also says they do not necessarily have to be legal. The government recognises moral obligations too, he says.
That's a good basis for making progress. Basically we need to convince the other side that if they persist with a 'see you in court' approach we'll call their bluff and that there's a very good chance they'll end up with tuppence ha'penny, but that we are willing to be flexible if they are.
It may not work, of course, but it's the right approach to take. As I've said many times, we should as individuals and businesses plan for the risk of it not working.
The EU evidently has no interest in agreeing this too quickly (I agree that David Davis's approach is entirely reasonable). It wants the pips to squeak a bit first before the terms of trade are discussed in earnest, the better to nail Britain to the floor.
As I said the other day, this looks like a very short-sighted strategy from the EU's perspective but when the British government has spent most of the last year pandering to the tabloids' hatred of the EU, it's not exactly surprising.
From the EU perspective the best outcome is to be intransigent enough to shift banks and other investment to the mainland over the next year, then for the British to collapse into accepting the EU position. All according to plan so far.
He does indeed. He may have found his true calling. But he is moving from critical, well associate, to outright war. I don't see this as productive. The hackles of many who might have had similar views will be raised.
Conservatives need to remember that George Osborne has a new career, one which he is pursuing wholeheartedly and effectively. For so long as he is editor of the Evening Standard, a Prime Minister embarking on a Brexit course is his quarry. That this is a pleasure as well as a duty is a happy coincidence.
Oh he's certainly enjoying himself there is no doubt about that. I just fear he is becoming a little self indulgent and losing sight of the main prize which is to shape policy in the way he believes to be advantageous for the country.
Who says it's his main prize? Plus who says he is not indeed shaping policy? As we have seen with BoJo, people like it when a (non/yet to be/former) politician speaks their mind in print. He is creating a narrative whereby it is a foregone conclusion that May is useless and will go. Perhaps he's the champion of a significant number of Cons MPs who wish they could say what he is saying. Perhaps he is just venting and doesn't care about the UK. Or perhaps he realises that the closer to EU membership Brexit looks like, the better the country will do and is trying to achieve that with his war on hard Brexiters, whoever they are.
Is the ES an influential rag? His presence means it is more influential than it was and as editor on a salary, being influential means higher readership means more advertising revenue so as a day job main prize I think he is succeeding on that count also.
And talking of counts, I feel the hand of history...
Osborne, unlike May, has an excellent sense of humour and can be extremely funny but there's no doubt at all that he is a very serious person. He has devoted his adult life to public service (until now) with considerable effect and success. I believe that he will still put the interests of the UK first. He clearly believes that May as PM is not in our interests. I am not without sympathy for that viewpoint but I think he is going about this the wrong way.
I suspect most people will see him as a jumped-up pipsqueak with a drunken friend egging him on.
Just think how humiliating it would feel if people came to think this jumped-up pipsqueak and his drunken friend had the whip hand over the UK government.
And they'd come to think this why? You don't reward poor negotiating strategy (if trying to wear us down into abandoning a democratic decision can even be deemed a strategy) by giving in. You push your advantage. And money is where we have an advantage.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
Last time we had a EUref, Punch and Private Eye alone had 9 or 10 funny cartoonists between them. The way things are now, Matt is going to have the Monopolies Commission on his ass.
I suspect most people will see him as a jumped-up pipsqueak with a drunken friend egging him on.
Just think how humiliating it would feel if people came to think this jumped-up pipsqueak and his drunken friend had the whip hand over the UK government.
So should that be the case we will all see the error of our ways and fall into the loving embrace of a federal Europe, begging to be taken back, joyously accepting the euro, agree to all learn French, drive on the right in due course, and have a portrait of the head of the Commission over the mantelpiece in every house in the land?
Alternatively it's just possible, if the thought takes hold that they are taking the piss, that we will roundly tell them to go take a running jump.
...I am not happy about any of this, but it does appear to me that David Davis has been pretty restrained in his public statements,...
DD said something very interesting just now. From the Guardian live blog:
He says the UK will meet its obligations. But those obligations have to be real, he says.
He also says they do not necessarily have to be legal. The government recognises moral obligations too, he says.
That's a good basis for making progress. Basically we need to convince the other side that if they persist with a 'see you in court' approach we'll call their bluff and that there's a very good chance they'll end up with tuppence ha'penny, but that we are willing to be flexible if they are.
It may not work, of course, but it's the right approach to take. As I've said many times, we should as individuals and businesses plan for the risk of it not working.
The EU evidently has no interest in agreeing this too quickly (I agree that David Davis's approach is entirely reasonable). It wants the pips to squeak a bit first before the terms of trade are discussed in earnest, the better to nail Britain to the floor.
As I said the other day, this looks like a very short-sighted strategy from the EU's perspective but when the British government has spent most of the last year pandering to the tabloids' hatred of the EU, it's not exactly surprising.
From the EU perspective the best outcome is to be intransigent enough to shift banks and other investment to the mainland over the next year, then for the British to collapse into accepting the EU position. All according to plan so far.
It's not going to happen and if it did then the UK's agreement with the EU would be the least of our problems.
Besides, why do we want to be part of this club of utter arseholes if this is how they behave?
I suspect most people will see him as a jumped-up pipsqueak with a drunken friend egging him on.
Just think how humiliating it would feel if people came to think this jumped-up pipsqueak and his drunken friend had the whip hand over the UK government.
So should that be the case we will all see the error of our ways and fall into the loving embrace of a federal Europe, begging to be taken back, joyously accepting the euro, agree to all learn French, drive on the right in due course, and have a portrait of the head of the Commission over the mantelpiece in every house in the land?
Alternatively it's just possible, if the thought takes hold that they are taking the piss, that we will roundly tell them to go take a running jump.
Sticks and stones will break their bones.... It is vital to remember that the money is absolutely our only bargaining asset. Taking a dim view, expressing disappointment and clever name-calling have precisely as much traction as an H&H by-election.
...I am not happy about any of this, but it does appear to me that David Davis has been pretty restrained in his public statements,...
DD said something very interesting just now. From the Guardian live blog:
He says the UK will meet its obligations. But those obligations have to be real, he says.
He also says they do not necessarily have to be legal. The government recognises moral obligations too, he says.
That's a good basis for making progress. Basically we need to convince the other side that if they persist with a 'see you in court' approach we'll call their bluff and that there's a very good chance they'll end up with tuppence ha'penny, but that we are willing to be flexible if they are.
It may not work, of course, but it's the right approach to take. As I've said many times, we should as individuals and businesses plan for the risk of it not working.
The EU evidently has no interest in agreeing this too quickly (I agree that David Davis's approach is entirely reasonable). It wants the pips to squeak a bit first before the terms of trade are discussed in earnest, the better to nail Britain to the floor.
As I said the other day, this looks like a very short-sighted strategy from the EU's perspective but when the British government has spent most of the last year pandering to the tabloids' hatred of the EU, it's not exactly surprising.
From the EU perspective the best outcome is to be intransigent enough to shift banks and other investment to the mainland over the next year, then for the British to collapse into accepting the EU position. All according to plan so far.
It's not going to happen and if it did then the UK's agreement with the EU would be the least of our problems.
Besides, why do we want to be part of this club of utter arseholes if this is how they behave?
Why are they not allowed to negotiate in accordance with their own interests as they see them? They're not obliged to play nice and given how Leavers refer to them, it's not exactly surprising that they don't feel that they want to?
I suspect most people will see him as a jumped-up pipsqueak with a drunken friend egging him on.
Just think how humiliating it would feel if people came to think this jumped-up pipsqueak and his drunken friend had the whip hand over the UK government.
So should that be the case we will all see the error of our ways and fall into the loving embrace of a federal Europe, begging to be taken back, joyously accepting the euro, agree to all learn French, drive on the right in due course, and have a portrait of the head of the Commission over the mantelpiece in every house in the land?
Alternatively it's just possible, if the thought takes hold that they are taking the piss, that we will roundly tell them to go take a running jump.
...I am not happy about any of this, but it does appear to me that David Davis has been pretty restrained in his public statements,...
DD said something very interesting just now. From the Guardian live blog:
He says the UK will meet its obligations. But those obligations have to be real, he says.
He also says they do not necessarily have to be legal. The government recognises moral obligations too, he says.
That's a good basis for making progress. Basically we need to convince the other side that if they persist with a 'see you in court' approach we'll call their bluff and that there's a very good chance they'll end up with tuppence ha'penny, but that we are willing to be flexible if they are.
It may not work, of course, but it's the right approach to take. As I've said many times, we should as individuals and businesses plan for the risk of it not working.
The EU evidently has no interest in agreeing this too quickly (I agree that David Davis's approach is entirely reasonable). It wants the pips to squeak a bit first before the terms of trade are discussed in earnest, the better to nail Britain to the floor.
As I said the other day, this looks like a very short-sighted strategy from the EU's perspective but when the British government has spent most of the last year pandering to the tabloids' hatred of the EU, it's not exactly surprising.
From the EU perspective the best outcome is to be intransigent enough to shift banks and other investment to the mainland over the next year, then for the British to collapse into accepting the EU position. All according to plan so far.
...I am not happy about any of this, but it does appear to me that David Davis has been pretty restrained in his public statements,...
DD said something very interesting just now. From the Guardian live blog:
He says the UK will meet its obligations. But those obligations have to be real, he says.
He also says they do not necessarily have to be legal. The government recognises moral obligations too, he says.
That's a good basis for making progress. Basically we need to convince the other side that if they persist with a 'see you in court' approach we'll call their bluff and that there's a very good chance they'll end up with tuppence ha'penny, but that we are willing to be flexible if they are.
It may not work, of course, but it's the right approach to take. As I've said many times, we should as individuals and businesses plan for the risk of it not working.
The EU evidently has no interest in agreeing this too quickly (I agree that David Davis's approach is entirely reasonable). It wants the pips to squeak a bit first before the terms of trade are discussed in earnest, the better to nail Britain to the floor.
As I said the other day, this looks like a very short-sighted strategy from the EU's perspective but when the British government has spent most of the last year pandering to the tabloids' hatred of the EU, it's not exactly surprising.
From the EU perspective the best outcome is to be intransigent enough to shift banks and other investment to the mainland over the next year, then for the British to collapse into accepting the EU position. All according to plan so far.
It's not going to happen and if it did then the UK's agreement with the EU would be the least of our problems.
Besides, why do we want to be part of this club of utter arseholes if this is how they behave?
Why are they not allowed to negotiate in accordance with their own interests as they see them? They're not obliged to play nice and given how Leavers refer to them, it's not exactly surprising that they don't feel that they want to?
They are perfectly entitled to do that, however they don't get to be held up as a paragon of virtue and a champion of free trade while acting in the opposite manner.
I suspect most people will see him as a jumped-up pipsqueak with a drunken friend egging him on.
Just think how humiliating it would feel if people came to think this jumped-up pipsqueak and his drunken friend had the whip hand over the UK government.
So should that be the case we will all see the error of our ways and fall into the loving embrace of a federal Europe, begging to be taken back, joyously accepting the euro, agree to all learn French, drive on the right in due course, and have a portrait of the head of the Commission over the mantelpiece in every house in the land?
Alternatively it's just possible, if the thought takes hold that they are taking the piss, that we will roundly tell them to go take a running jump.
Sticks and stones will break their bones.... It is vital to remember that the money is absolutely our only bargaining asset. Taking a dim view, expressing disappointment and clever name-calling have precisely as much traction as an H&H by-election.
All true. But Barnier, to be fair has been given a framework by the EU that makes no sense at all. The deal is a totality, not two non connected bits, which is the essential point our side seem to be making. Hopefully sense will prevail behind the scenes (maybe no press conferences for a few eeeks might be an idea?), otherwise it is going to get to the name calling stage.
I suspect most people will see him as a jumped-up pipsqueak with a drunken friend egging him on.
Just think how humiliating it would feel if people came to think this jumped-up pipsqueak and his drunken friend had the whip hand over the UK government.
So should that be the case we will all see the error of our ways and fall into the loving embrace of a federal Europe, begging to be taken back, joyously accepting the euro, agree to all learn French, drive on the right in due course, and have a portrait of the head of the Commission over the mantelpiece in every house in the land?
Alternatively it's just possible, if the thought takes hold that they are taking the piss, that we will roundly tell them to go take a running jump.
Sticks and stones will break their bones.... It is vital to remember that the money is absolutely our only bargaining asset. Taking a dim view, expressing disappointment and clever name-calling have precisely as much traction as an H&H by-election.
Yes, he drew attention to the massive erosion of civil liberties that was taking place at the time. The House of Lords removed the clause from the bill that Davis had been protesting against and the Government backed down. What an unmitigated disaster...
(This of course was another time when the DUP accepted bribes for votes)
I suspect most people will see him as a jumped-up pipsqueak with a drunken friend egging him on.
Just think how humiliating it would feel if people came to think this jumped-up pipsqueak and his drunken friend had the whip hand over the UK government.
So should that be the case we will all see the error of our ways and fall into the loving embrace of a federal Europe, begging to be taken back, joyously accepting the euro, agree to all learn French, drive on the right in due course, and have a portrait of the head of the Commission over the mantelpiece in every house in the land?
Alternatively it's just possible, if the thought takes hold that they are taking the piss, that we will roundly tell them to go take a running jump.
Sticks and stones will break their bones.... It is vital to remember that the money is absolutely our only bargaining asset. Taking a dim view, expressing disappointment and clever name-calling have precisely as much traction as an H&H by-election.
All true. But Barnier, to be fair has been given a framework by the EU that makes no sense at all. The deal is a totality, not two non connected bits, which is the essential point our side seem to be making. Hopefully sense will prevail behind the scenes (maybe no press conferences for a few eeeks might be an idea?), otherwise it is going to get to the name calling stage.
A large part of the problem is that the Leavers moved straight to the name-calling stage before negotiations even started. You don't have to look far down this thread to find disobliging comments about Jean-Claude Juncker and Michel Barnier. Nor are these freshly-minted insults for today.
If the government and its cohorts of supporters in the media had been conspicuously friendly towards the EU to date, they would have far greater purchase now to swat aside the EU's attempts to gain unfair advantages out of the negotiations at this stage.
I was reminded of a story I heard about a software development company in Silicon Valley that got a visit one day from an intellectual property lawyer from IBM. The company's tech guys and management team assembled in the meeting room to discuss the ten IBM patents this company was alleged to have infringed. The tech guys tore into the patents - this one had prior art, that one was obvious and unpatentable, the other one wasn't an invention and unpatentable, and so on. This went on for an hour. The IBM rep sat through this without saying a word and at the end said, would you like me to return to IBM's offices at Rochester NY and come back with another set of patents? The IBM rep and the management team went off into another room and hammered out a deal.
Someone downthread said we were exhausting Barnier's patience. Barnier is a pro. His patience doesn't get exhausted.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
The government has got to put effort into ideas for import substitution and spend the money to set up the factories to do it.
As the Brexiteers seem to be taking inspiration from the Labour hard left, perhaps we should dig out Benn's Alternative Economic Strategy and get ready for a siege economy.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
The bill needs to be dressed up as something else. So we commit ourselves to funding programs that we have already agreed in the budget, we agree to continue a contribution to the supervision of the single market in exchange for unimpeded access, we agree to pay subs for those areas where we want to continue to cooperate etc etc. These are all politically sellable and doable.
What is worrying me is the complete unreality of the EU position. We should pay tens of billions because, well we should. Unless they are willing to start being realistic no deal will be possible. There was an interview with Davis a couple of weeks ago when he said that the EU had been completely unable to vouch or justify their claims and were now seeking our proposals as an alternative. This is inevitable, any deal has to be a something for something arrangement and the position of the EU in the negotiations has been absurd...
Except that at this rate, we'll never get that far. The EU team appear to be insisting on a response to the bill which is 'satisfactory' before they'll deign to talk about what happens next. As I argued in the previous thread, the sensible option might be to counter with what we accept are our actual legal obligations that we are willing to pay without further negotiation (which we have thus far not done... and it won't be a large figure), adding a rider that we are prepared to pay considerably more, but only subject to satisfactory* agreement on market access etc.
While that might offend on or two sensitive souls, it has the benefit of cutting through the crap, and setting out the position as it actually is. And I can't see how it would make the stalemate any worse than it now appears to be.
*It's time we used that term back at them.
This they said/we said approach just obscures what is happening in the negotiation process - let's get it out into the public domain.
The EU position paper listed 68 basic acts or schemes they maintain the UK has an obligation to contribute to until 2020 or the (earlier) conclusion of each scheme. It should not be difficult to publish a response, in limited detail, along the lines of
1. We accept/do not accept there is a legal obligation on this scheme. 2. We accept the EU valuation of this scheme/propose this as the valuation. 3. The UK contribution to this scheme is xx% based on this calculation/ xx% as per the average share of UK contributions.
That, and the EU response, would demonstrate who was trying to make progress and who was being unreasonable.
Just don't ask me so sit trough a 3 hour Powerpoint presentation!
I was reminded of a story I heard about a software development company in Silicon Valley that got a visit one day from an intellectual property lawyer from IBM. The company's tech guys and management team assembled in the meeting room to discuss the ten IBM patents this company was alleged to have infringed. The tech guys tore into the patents - this one had prior art, that one was obvious and unpatentable, the other one wasn't an invention and unpatentable, and so on. This went on for an hour. The IBM rep sat through this without saying a word and at the end said, would you like me to return to IBM's offices at Rochester NY and come back with another set of patents? The IBM rep and the management team went off into another room and hammered out a deal..
Good story.
However, there is one glaring problem: the way the EU27 have set this up, the negotiators can't easily disappear into a smoke-free room and hammer out a deal. The fact that they've insisted on it all being transparent, with both sides publishing position papers, is going to make it much harder than it would otherwise have been.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
Not at all - he should go and bask in his popularity......
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
The EU can't negotiate away from the position handed to them from the EU27. They are therefore stuck in one inflexible position waiting for us to agree with them.
It is just a hunch, but the one that can't negotiate is potentially the bigger problem in reaching a solution, especially if they lack the self awareness to recognise that it is a problem.
The insistence on having to agree interdependent items in isolation of each other before discussions can commence on the dependent items will make progress worse than slow or even difficult to impossible.
If you wanted a structure to scupper the talks, the one implemented and insisted upon from the EU would be high on your list.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
Oh he can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
Not at all - he should go and bask in his popularity......
Yes, quite.
He might find he has as many supporters as Morgan did when she suggested she was thinking about the leadership....
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
I was reminded of a story I heard about a software development company in Silicon Valley that got a visit one day from an intellectual property lawyer from IBM. The company's tech guys and management team assembled in the meeting room to discuss the ten IBM patents this company was alleged to have infringed. The tech guys tore into the patents - this one had prior art, that one was obvious and unpatentable, the other one wasn't an invention and unpatentable, and so on. This went on for an hour. The IBM rep sat through this without saying a word and at the end said, would you like me to return to IBM's offices at Rochester NY and come back with another set of patents? The IBM rep and the management team went off into another room and hammered out a deal.
Someone downthread said we were exhausting Barnier's patience. Barnier is a pro. His patience doesn't get exhausted.
Out of interest, what in his CV makes him so exceptional for his task?
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
Oh he can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
No, he should be allowed to attend as a member of the media - like TSE said, we're not Venezuela or Russia. However, if he thinks he is going to get a sit down interview with anyone interesting he'll be bitterly disappointed.
It's up to him what he does now he's out of politics, but I think he's overplayed his hand. Surely he was hired for the contents of his contact book - the same contact book he is burning thanks to the bile he continues to publish?
If he is right, he is wrong. He had an unloseable case (along with his less clever friend) against a bunch (as you have told us about 10 times a day for the past 15 months) of hilarious bozos and doofuses, and he fecking lost it. TMay and brexit were the foreseeable consequences of his uselessness, and in law and common sense you are liable for the foreseeable consequences of your actions. It doesn't make him look good that he is now having a laugh about it courtesy of a Russian billionaire mate.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
I agree entirely with a free press, and if he was there to report on what was happening at the Conference - rather than shit-stirring and actively plotting against the PM from inside her own party - then I wouldn’t have a problem with him being there.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
I wasn't sure if Sandpit's post was a comment on the Tory hierarchy or the jumped up newspaper editor.
I was reminded of a story I heard about a software development company in Silicon Valley that got a visit one day from an intellectual property lawyer from IBM. The company's tech guys and management team assembled in the meeting room to discuss the ten IBM patents this company was alleged to have infringed. The tech guys tore into the patents - this one had prior art, that one was obvious and unpatentable, the other one wasn't an invention and unpatentable, and so on. This went on for an hour. The IBM rep sat through this without saying a word and at the end said, would you like me to return to IBM's offices at Rochester NY and come back with another set of patents? The IBM rep and the management team went off into another room and hammered out a deal.
Someone downthread said we were exhausting Barnier's patience. Barnier is a pro. His patience doesn't get exhausted.
Out of interest, what in his CV makes him so exceptional for his task?
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia Corbyn's model state....
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
I agree entirely with a free press, and if he was there to report on what was happening at the Conference - rather than shit-stirring and actively plotting against the PM from inside her own party - then I wouldn’t have a problem with him being there.
“Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.”
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
I was reminded of a story I heard about a software development company in Silicon Valley that got a visit one day from an intellectual property lawyer from IBM. The company's tech guys and management team assembled in the meeting room to discuss the ten IBM patents this company was alleged to have infringed. The tech guys tore into the patents - this one had prior art, that one was obvious and unpatentable, the other one wasn't an invention and unpatentable, and so on. This went on for an hour. The IBM rep sat through this without saying a word and at the end said, would you like me to return to IBM's offices at Rochester NY and come back with another set of patents? The IBM rep and the management team went off into another room and hammered out a deal..
Good story.
However, there is one glaring problem: the way the EU27 have set this up, the negotiators can't easily disappear into a smoke-free room and hammer out a deal. The fact that they've insisted on it all being transparent, with both sides publishing position papers, is going to make it much harder than it would otherwise have been.
Oh the irony - the Brexiters complained that if we stayed in we would be turned over by the EU27. And now that we voted to leave and the Brexiters are in charge...they are being turned over by the EU27.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
George has the best interests of George at heart...
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
George has the best interests of George at heart...
Bollocks, go watch the ITV coverage of election night, when every Tory loss came in, George was visibly upset.
But you've not answered my question.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Country before party, my friend, country before party.
Already we have had (presumably from the right?) a suggestion that the State should set up tractor production lines, and now the press is to be muzzled.
Oh how we tutted when Walter Wolfgang was thrown out of the Lab conference.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
George has the best interests of George at heart...
He would rather see both the Tory party and the Country crash and burn than be seen to be wrong. He was an arrogant tosser when he was Chancellor and even more so now he doesn't have to pretend he likes the common person.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
George has the best interests of George at heart...
He would rather see both the Tory party and the Country crash and burn than be seen to be wrong. He was an arrogant tosser when he was Chancellor and even more so now he doesn't have to pretend he likes the common person.
Says the Leaver who is happy to see people lose their jobs/houses so he can have Brexit.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
Christ on a bike, this is even harder work than explaining to Scott P what "expert" means. Consider the first Dukes of Marlborough and Wellington; in assessing their careers, should we pay closer attention to the battles and wars they lost and won, or the speed with which they rose through the ranks? General Elections are trivial, parochial stuff, little more than a betting opportunity. Presented with the one big challenge of his life, he screwed up. He and Cameron lost the referendum.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
George has the best interests of George at heart...
He would rather see both the Tory party and the Country crash and burn than be seen to be wrong. He was an arrogant tosser when he was Chancellor and even more so now he doesn't have to pretend he likes the common person.
Says the Leaver who is happy to see people lose their jobs/houses so he can have Brexit.
I see no point in listening to bitter, twisted, elitists who hate normal people and think the country should be run just for the benefit of themselves and their mates.
Of course I could be referring to both you and Osborne with that description.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Will George Osborne be let into the Conservative Conference ? Could be like a Labour one when the members howl at The Sun .This time the Tories complaining about the media namely the Standard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
Christ on a bike, this is even harder work than explaining to Scott P what "expert" means. Consider the first Dukes of Marlborough and Wellington; in assessing their careers, should we pay closer attention to the battles and wars they lost and won, or the speed with which they rose through the ranks? General Elections are trivial, parochial stuff, little more than a betting opportunity. Presented with the one big challenge of his life, he screwed up. He and Cameron lost the referendum.
They are losers.
Dave won 2 out of 2 general elections, and 2 out of 3 plebiscites.
So you're wronger than Morris Dancer when he talks about classical history.
Osborne is not some "jumped up newspaper editor" but a key part of the duo that secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority.
She's a loser
Sure, May took a winning position and lost it. That's bad politics.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
That's very much in the eye of the beholder. The intensity of hatred that Leavers manage for anyone who stands against their mad dream is astonishing, but George Osborne by being the most insouciant about this hatred tends to come in for most of it.
It is remarkable how much attention is given to Osborne by those who claim he's a useless loser, motivated only by bitterness.
I wonder why that might be?
Because they are tories who dislike the sight of him inflicting further damage on his own party to bolster his self-esteem, I would have thought. What explanation do you favour?
I see no point in listening to bitter, twisted, elitists who hate normal people and think the country should be run just for the benefit of themselves and their mates.
Of course I could be referring to both you and Osborne with that description.
So I was right wasn't I about you in my initial comment.
The Sunday after the general election Osborne went on telly to say that it would "be all over" for Theresa May Wednesday 14th June yet here we are, nearly in September and she's still going while the Posh Boy carps like the loser the is from the sidelines...
He said she was a dead woman walking. He was right.
And he predicted it would be "all over for her" by 14th June (as the Tories would force her resignation)
He was wrong.
It is all shaing up to make the Tory conference rather fun though!
Wtandard.
He's attending conference. He's got media accreditation.
That needs to be revoked. Now.
This isn't Putin's Russia.
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
He can say what he likes. But that doesn't mean the Tories should roll out the red carpet and let him gatecrash their conference.
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
Nonsense.
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
George has the best interests of George at heart...
He would rather see both the Tory party and the Country crash and burn than be seen to be wrong. He was an arrogant tosser when he was Chancellor and even more so now he doesn't have to pretend he likes the common person.
Says the Leaver who is happy to see people lose their jobs/houses so he can have Brexit.
I see no point in listening to bitter, twisted, elitists who hate normal people and think the country should be run just for the benefit of themselves and their mates.
Of course I could be referring to both you and Osborne with that description.
It's only the elitists who will be able to afford Brexit, of course.
Manchester City have made an improved second bid of around £60m for Arsenal's Chile forward Alexis Sanchez.
At this rate, Arsene will have to register himself to play...
Arsenal have bid £90 million for Lemar.
If there's any justice Lemar will end up at Liverpool, because we've been tracking him as well.
Given what a mess Arsenal are in, I can't imagine why any player with a promising future would want to join them.
They are the feeder club sans pareil. Go there on the way up, spend a season or two outshining despite Arsene, and then be picked up for a packet by a proper big club.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
I agree entirely with a free press, and if he was there to report on what was happening at the Conference - rather than shit-stirring and actively plotting against the PM from inside her own party - then I wouldn’t have a problem with him being there.
“Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.”
― George Orwell
Good quote.
The Standard would be free to send any other journalist they would like to report on the conference, and of course to print whatever they like.
If your company were holding a conference for clients and press, and a rival firm intended to send one of their partners under cover of a press pass to try and poach your clients, I’d imagine you’d politely ask the publication in question to please send someone else.
I see no point in listening to bitter, twisted, elitists who hate normal people and think the country should be run just for the benefit of themselves and their mates.
Of course I could be referring to both you and Osborne with that description.
So I was right wasn't I about you in my initial comment.
You might think so but then you are so far removed from reality that your opinions really aren't worth anything.
He might the worst American owner the Premier League has seen, and given that the Glazers and Hicks & Gillett have been Premier League owners, that's some achievement.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
I agree entirely with a free press, and if he was there to report on what was happening at the Conference - rather than shit-stirring and actively plotting against the PM from inside her own party - then I wouldn’t have a problem with him being there.
So you agree entirely about a free press... unless they write something particularly disobliging ??
"rather than shit-stirring and actively plotting against the PM from inside her own party.."
That might be a reasonable argument for removing a couple of current cabinet ministers... The concept of party discipline doesn't really extend to journalists.
You might more reasonably argue his party membership be suspended - which would still be ridiculous, but not downright demented.
Osborne is not some "jumped up newspaper editor" but a key part of the duo that secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority.
She's a loser
Sure, May took a winning position and lost it. That's bad politics.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
That's very much in the eye of the beholder. The intensity of hatred that Leavers manage for anyone who stands against their mad dream is astonishing, but George Osborne by being the most insouciant about this hatred tends to come in for most of it.
I disliked Osborne intensely from around 2012... Before that I was unsure but looking back Tim (formally of this Parish) was dead right in his assessment of him.
In a way Leaver's should actually be grateful to Osborne though because I very strongly doubt we'd have Breixted without him...
It's only the elitists who will be able to afford Brexit, of course.
Not at all. The consequences of Brexit will be neither as extreme or as bountiful as either side claims. They will however be significant in the longer term in improving the lot of people and their ability to run their own lives.
What we are seeing are just the first steps in a massive reform of the way in which we are governed and the relationship between the State and the people. It is one reason why people like Osborne are so unhappy with it.
It is remarkable how much attention is given to Osborne by those who claim he's a useless loser, motivated only by bitterness.
I wonder why that might be?
Because they are tories who dislike the sight of him inflicting further damage on his own party to bolster his self-esteem, I would have thought. What explanation do you favour?
The obvious one - that they know he's the most talented politician of his generation, and fear he is right.
Of course, it's stupidly short-sighted of them. Quite apart from anything else, it is very much in the interests of the Conservative Party for everything to be blamed on Theresa May personally. But those criticising Osborne obviously haven't quite got there yet.
Afternoon all. How long before the Tory hierarchy decide that having some jumped-up newspaper editor be allowed within a hundred miles of Manchester from 1st-4th October is not going to be conducive to the good of the party?
We're not Venezuela or Russia, we have a free press and if a journalist/editor gets up the nose of the Prime Minister, then tough.
I agree entirely with a free press, and if he was there to report on what was happening at the Conference - rather than shit-stirring and actively plotting against the PM from inside her own party - then I wouldn’t have a problem with him being there.
“Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.”
― George Orwell
Good quote.
The Standard would be free to send any other journalist they would like to report on the conference, and of course to print whatever they like.
If your company were holding a conference for clients and press, and a rival firm intended to send one of their partners under cover of a press pass to try and poach your clients, I’d imagine you’d politely ask the publication in question to please send someone else.
My understanding is The Standard, like many other newspapers attends conferences and throws parties/has events/drinks parties, and like many other papers, they send their editors.
George isn't doing anything that other newspapers/magazine editors have done.
Indeed, when Boris Johnson was Editor of The Spectator and a Tory MP, he did what George is planning to do.
... why do we want to be part of this club of utter arseholes if this is how they behave?
We are no longer part of this club and they no longer care whether we think they are utter arseholes or not. It's business and it's all change.
Conveniently missing the fact that they were behaving like this long before we decided to leave. Indeed it is one of the reasons we did decide to leave.
Dave won 2 out of 2 general elections, and 2 out of 3 plebiscites.
So you're wronger than Morris Dancer when he talks about classical history.
OK. Let's assume that the D of W played three games of billiards at the D of R's ball, and lost each and every one of them. Napoleon, meanwhile, played and won three games of whist with his marshals. Which of them was the net loser by the end of 15 June? It's about weighting, innit?
This is all getting very Alice in Wonderland, though. Why is anger at wee Georgie taken as a sign of Leaverdom, when he was pretty much the chief architect of Leave's victory? I'd have thought Leavers would be cheering him to the echo.
It's only the elitists who will be able to afford Brexit, of course.
Not at all. The consequences of Brexit will be neither as extreme or as bountiful as either side claims. They will however be significant in the longer term in improving the lot of people and their ability to run their own lives.
What we are seeing are just the first steps in a massive reform of the way in which we are governed and the relationship between the State and the people. It is one reason why people like Osborne are so unhappy with it.
I agree it won't be cataclysm or end of the world. I don't agree with your transformational change, however. It was just an opportunity to kick the establishment which they took.
It is remarkable how much attention is given to Osborne by those who claim he's a useless loser, motivated only by bitterness.
I wonder why that might be?
Because they are tories who dislike the sight of him inflicting further damage on his own party to bolster his self-esteem, I would have thought. What explanation do you favour?
The obvious one - that they know he's the most talented politician of his generation, and fear he is right.
Without the way Osborne conducted the referendum campaign (from Cameron smiling next to Obama as he threatened us in own country right through to the Punishment budget) we wouldn't have Brexited.
Come on, even you have to admit George had a stinker of a referendum...
Dave won 2 out of 2 general elections, and 2 out of 3 plebiscites.
So you're wronger than Morris Dancer when he talks about classical history.
OK. Let's assume that the D of W played three games of billiards at the D of R's ball, and lost each and every one of them. Napoleon, meanwhile, played and won three games of whist with his marshals. Which of them was the net loser by the end of 15 June? It's about weighting, innit?
This is all getting very Alice in Wonderland, though. Why is anger at wee Georgie taken as a sign of Leaverdom, when he was pretty much the chief architect of Leave's victory? I'd have thought Leavers would be cheering him to the echo.
In four days time, I start a three week stint as editor of PB, I'll do a thread on this/Dave's legacy.
What we are seeing are just the first steps in a massive reform of the way in which we are governed and the relationship between the State and the people. It is one reason why people like Osborne are so unhappy with it.
And one reason why people like Corbyn and McDonnell are so sanguine about it.
Wells Fargo is now saying 3.5 million customers were impacted by its fake accounts scandal, a dramatic increase from the 2.1 million accounts it originally estimated.
In the weeks and months after the bank acknowledged in September 2016 that its employees opened 2.1 million accounts without getting customers’ permission, the bank agreed to look for fake accounts going back an additional two years to 2009. This was because news reports showed that problems at Wells started before 2011, which is what Wells originally admitted.
Wells plans to pay out an additional $7 million in refunds to the impacted customers.
Separately Wells also found 528,000 customers were signed up for online bill pay when they did not ask for it. The bank will give $910,000 in refunds to those customers.
Osborne is not some "jumped up newspaper editor" but a key part of the duo that secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority.
She's a loser
Sure, May took a winning position and lost it. That's bad politics.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
That's very much in the eye of the beholder. The intensity of hatred that Leavers manage for anyone who stands against their mad dream is astonishing, but George Osborne by being the most insouciant about this hatred tends to come in for most of it.
It is nothing to do with Brexit. There is plenty of polling evidence before Brexit that Osborne was as toxic as polonium.
Osborne lacks the easy charm of a Cameron. He lacks the vulnerability of a May. He lacks the clownishness of a Boris. He lacks the authenticity of a Corbyn. He lacks the passion of a Clegg.
MoneySavingExpert’s Martin Lewis called Osborne's behaviour over student loans a mis-selling scandal as bad as PPI. He's right (& Lewis regularly outdistances all politicians in polls of who to trust). Osborne's behaviour over student loans was a significant reason why May lost her majority.
Osborne is a man without qualities, except a callow & reptilian ruthlessness.
Without the way Osborne conducted the referendum campaign (from Cameron smiling next to Obama as he threatened us in own country right through to the Punishment budget) we wouldn't have Brexited.
Come on, even you have to admit George had a stinker of a referendum...
Cameron and Osborne lost, having fought a tough campaign virtually single-handedly, and in particular with Labour deliberately failing to get its vote out. It's regrettable, but that's democracy for you. At least no-one can possibly claim that they weren't warned of the economic risks, nor that they weren't warned that the promised 'sovereignty' would largely be illusory.
Osborne is not some "jumped up newspaper editor" but a key part of the duo that secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority.
She's a loser
Sure, May took a winning position and lost it. That's bad politics.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
That's very much in the eye of the beholder. The intensity of hatred that Leavers manage for anyone who stands against their mad dream is astonishing, but George Osborne by being the most insouciant about this hatred tends to come in for most of it.
It is nothing to do with Brexit. There is plenty of polling evidence before Brexit that Osborne was as toxic as polonium.
Osborne lacks the easy charm of a Cameron. He lacks the vulnerability of a May. He lacks the clownishness of a Boris. He lacks the authenticity of a Corbyn. He lacks the passion of a Clegg.
MoneySavingExpert’s Martin Lewis called Osborne's behaviour over student loans a mis-selling scandal as bad as PPI. He's right (& Lewis regularly outdistances all politicians in polls of who to trust). Osborne's behaviour over student loans was a significant reason why May lost her majority.
Osborne is a man without qualities, except a callow & reptilian ruthlessness.
Osborne is not some "jumped up newspaper editor" but a key part of the duo that secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority.
She's a loser
Sure, May took a winning position and lost it. That's bad politics.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
That's very much in the eye of the beholder. The intensity of hatred that Leavers manage for anyone who stands against their mad dream is astonishing, but George Osborne by being the most insouciant about this hatred tends to come in for most of it.
It is nothing to do with Brexit. There is plenty of polling evidence before Brexit that Osborne was as toxic as polonium.
Osborne lacks the easy charm of a Cameron. He lacks the vulnerability of a May. He lacks the clownishness of a Boris. He lacks the authenticity of a Corbyn. He lacks the passion of a Clegg.
MoneySavingExpert’s Martin Lewis called Osborne's behaviour over student loans a mis-selling scandal as bad as PPI. He's right (& Lewis regularly outdistances all politicians in polls of who to trust). Osborne's behaviour over student loans was a significant reason why May lost her majority.
Osborne is a man without qualities, except a callow & reptilian ruthlessness.
It wasn't her majority, it was David Cameron and George Osborne's hard earned majority.
Dave won 2 out of 2 general elections, and 2 out of 3 plebiscites.
So you're wronger than Morris Dancer when he talks about classical history.
OK. Let's assume that the D of W played three games of billiards at the D of R's ball, and lost each and every one of them. Napoleon, meanwhile, played and won three games of whist with his marshals. Which of them was the net loser by the end of 15 June? It's about weighting, innit?
This is all getting very Alice in Wonderland, though. Why is anger at wee Georgie taken as a sign of Leaverdom, when he was pretty much the chief architect of Leave's victory? I'd have thought Leavers would be cheering him to the echo.
In four days time, I start a three week stint as editor of PB, I'll do a thread on this/Dave's legacy.
Manchester City have made an improved second bid of around £60m for Arsenal's Chile forward Alexis Sanchez.
At this rate, Arsene will have to register himself to play...
Arsenal have bid £90 million for Lemar.
If there's any justice Lemar will end up at Liverpool, because we've been tracking him as well.
Given what a mess Arsenal are in, I can't imagine why any player with a promising future would want to join them.
They are the feeder club sans pareil. Go there on the way up, spend a season or two outshining despite Arsene, and then be picked up for a packet by a proper big club.
Osborne is not some "jumped up newspaper editor" but a key part of the duo that secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority.
She's a loser
Sure, May took a winning position and lost it. That's bad politics.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
That's very much in the eye of the beholder. The intensity of hatred that Leavers manage for anyone who stands against their mad dream is astonishing, but George Osborne by being the most insouciant about this hatred tends to come in for most of it.
It is nothing to do with Brexit. There is plenty of polling evidence before Brexit that Osborne was as toxic as polonium.
Osborne lacks the easy charm of a Cameron. He lacks the vulnerability of a May. He lacks the clownishness of a Boris. He lacks the authenticity of a Corbyn. He lacks the passion of a Clegg.
MoneySavingExpert’s Martin Lewis called Osborne's behaviour over student loans a mis-selling scandal as bad as PPI. He's right (& Lewis regularly outdistances all politicians in polls of who to trust). Osborne's behaviour over student loans was a significant reason why May lost her majority.
Osborne is a man without qualities, except a callow & reptilian ruthlessness.
... why do we want to be part of this club of utter arseholes if this is how they behave?
We are no longer part of this club and they no longer care whether we think they are utter arseholes or not. It's business and it's all change.
Conveniently missing the fact that they were behaving like this long before we decided to leave. Indeed it is one of the reasons we did decide to leave.
It is not a fact. It is your opinion that I don't agree with. The EU is a multilateral body that has to take account of the interests of its members and works by consensus. Which is why there is horse-trading and you can avoid most, if not all, of the things you really dislike and have real influence as a member on the decisions that get taken.
The EU doesn't have to take account of the interests of its ex-members, nor will it do so.
Osborne is not some "jumped up newspaper editor" but a key part of the duo that secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority.
She's a loser
Sure, May took a winning position and lost it. That's bad politics.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
That's very much in the eye of the beholder. The intensity of hatred that Leavers manage for anyone who stands against their mad dream is astonishing, but George Osborne by being the most insouciant about this hatred tends to come in for most of it.
It is nothing to do with Brexit. There is plenty of polling evidence before Brexit that Osborne was as toxic as polonium.
Osborne lacks the easy charm of a Cameron. He lacks the vulnerability of a May. He lacks the clownishness of a Boris. He lacks the authenticity of a Corbyn. He lacks the passion of a Clegg.
MoneySavingExpert’s Martin Lewis called Osborne's behaviour over student loans a mis-selling scandal as bad as PPI. He's right (& Lewis regularly outdistances all politicians in polls of who to trust). Osborne's behaviour over student loans was a significant reason why May lost her majority.
Osborne is a man without qualities, except a callow & reptilian ruthlessness.
It wasn't her majority, it was David Cameron and George Osborne's hard earned majority.
I don't see why it was Cameron & Osborne's.
No-one talks of Blair & Brown's majority. They talk of Tony's big wins.
Dave won 2 out of 2 general elections, and 2 out of 3 plebiscites.
So you're wronger than Morris Dancer when he talks about classical history.
OK. Let's assume that the D of W played three games of billiards at the D of R's ball, and lost each and every one of them. Napoleon, meanwhile, played and won three games of whist with his marshals. Which of them was the net loser by the end of 15 June? It's about weighting, innit?
This is all getting very Alice in Wonderland, though. Why is anger at wee Georgie taken as a sign of Leaverdom, when he was pretty much the chief architect of Leave's victory? I'd have thought Leavers would be cheering him to the echo.
In four days time, I start a three week stint as editor of PB, I'll do a thread on this/Dave's legacy.
Maybe do a compare and contrast - the gentleman prime minister who, when he realised his time was up, departed gracefully from the political stage and will see out his retirement in pace and comfort.
And his Chancellor, who had to be pushed before he would jump, then decided to take a job as an editor purely to snipe at those who he thought wronged him, while having nothing constructive to say and edging closer every day to being as unhinged as James Chapman.
Comments
Last time we had a EUref, Punch and Private Eye alone had 9 or 10 funny cartoonists between them. The way things are now, Matt is going to have the Monopolies Commission on his ass.
Just think how humiliating it will be parading around with placards saying "We want pipsqueaks and drunkards to rule over us. Vote Remain."
Alternatively it's just possible, if the thought takes hold that they are taking the piss, that we will roundly tell them to go take a running jump.
Besides, why do we want to be part of this club of utter arseholes if this is how they behave?
Wow George holds a grudge
Mohiussunnath Choudhury, 26, was arrested near royal residence in central London with 4ft sword
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/31/buckingham-palace-sword-suspect-charged-with-terror-offence
(This of course was another time when the DUP accepted bribes for votes)
If the government and its cohorts of supporters in the media had been conspicuously friendly towards the EU to date, they would have far greater purchase now to swat aside the EU's attempts to gain unfair advantages out of the negotiations at this stage.
Someone downthread said we were exhausting Barnier's patience. Barnier is a pro. His patience doesn't get exhausted.
However, there is one glaring problem: the way the EU27 have set this up, the negotiators can't easily disappear into a smoke-free room and hammer out a deal. The fact that they've insisted on it all being transparent, with both sides publishing position papers, is going to make it much harder than it would otherwise have been.
The EU can't negotiate away from the position handed to them from the EU27. They are therefore stuck in one inflexible position waiting for us to agree with them.
It is just a hunch, but the one that can't negotiate is potentially the bigger problem in reaching a solution, especially if they lack the self awareness to recognise that it is a problem.
The insistence on having to agree interdependent items in isolation of each other before discussions can commence on the dependent items will make progress worse than slow or even difficult to impossible.
If you wanted a structure to scupper the talks, the one implemented and insisted upon from the EU would be high on your list.
He might find he has as many supporters as Morgan did when she suggested she was thinking about the leadership....
Why are you and Theresa May afraid of a free press?
It's up to him what he does now he's out of politics, but I think he's overplayed his hand. Surely he was hired for the contents of his contact book - the same contact book he is burning thanks to the bile he continues to publish?
He is a seriously sinister and malignant force against the Conservative Party so why would they want him within a hundred mile radius of their conference?
As an aside isn't it amazing what awful people the Tories are generally? The way they fall out and plot to destroy one another is toxic.
Ugh!
― George Orwell
George has the best interests of the Tory party at heart, always.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
She's a loser
I wonder why that might be?
But you've not answered my question.
On his watch the Tories went from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
If that's malignant, then what do you think taking the Tories from 331 MPs to 318 MPs when facing Corbyn is?
Already we have had (presumably from the right?) a suggestion that the State should set up tractor production lines, and now the press is to be muzzled.
Oh how we tutted when Walter Wolfgang was thrown out of the Lab conference.
But, Osborne is the most dislikeable politician of his generation.
In terms of toxicity, it is like comparing household bleach to plutonium.
At this rate, Arsene will have to register himself to play...
They are losers.
If there's any justice Lemar will end up at Liverpool, because we've been tracking him as well.
Of course I could be referring to both you and Osborne with that description.
So you're wronger than Morris Dancer when he talks about classical history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Stadium_at_Hollywood_Park
We, and both Manchester clubs have lost out signings who preferred to live in the capital.
The Standard would be free to send any other journalist they would like to report on the conference, and of course to print whatever they like.
If your company were holding a conference for clients and press, and a rival firm intended to send one of their partners under cover of a press pass to try and poach your clients, I’d imagine you’d politely ask the publication in question to please send someone else.
"rather than shit-stirring and actively plotting against the PM from inside her own party.."
That might be a reasonable argument for removing a couple of current cabinet ministers...
The concept of party discipline doesn't really extend to journalists.
You might more reasonably argue his party membership be suspended - which would still be ridiculous, but not downright demented.
In a way Leaver's should actually be grateful to Osborne though because I very strongly doubt we'd have Breixted without him...
What we are seeing are just the first steps in a massive reform of the way in which we are governed and the relationship between the State and the people. It is one reason why people like Osborne are so unhappy with it.
Of course, it's stupidly short-sighted of them. Quite apart from anything else, it is very much in the interests of the Conservative Party for everything to be blamed on Theresa May personally. But those criticising Osborne obviously haven't quite got there yet.
George isn't doing anything that other newspapers/magazine editors have done.
Indeed, when Boris Johnson was Editor of The Spectator and a Tory MP, he did what George is planning to do.
This is all getting very Alice in Wonderland, though. Why is anger at wee Georgie taken as a sign of Leaverdom, when he was pretty much the chief architect of Leave's victory? I'd have thought Leavers would be cheering him to the echo.
Come on, even you have to admit George had a stinker of a referendum...
Wells Fargo is now saying 3.5 million customers were impacted by its fake accounts scandal, a dramatic increase from the 2.1 million accounts it originally estimated.
In the weeks and months after the bank acknowledged in September 2016 that its employees opened 2.1 million accounts without getting customers’ permission, the bank agreed to look for fake accounts going back an additional two years to 2009. This was because news reports showed that problems at Wells started before 2011, which is what Wells originally admitted.
Wells plans to pay out an additional $7 million in refunds to the impacted customers.
Separately Wells also found 528,000 customers were signed up for online bill pay when they did not ask for it. The bank will give $910,000 in refunds to those customers.
Osborne lacks the easy charm of a Cameron. He lacks the vulnerability of a May. He lacks the clownishness of a Boris. He lacks the authenticity of a Corbyn. He lacks the passion of a Clegg.
MoneySavingExpert’s Martin Lewis called Osborne's behaviour over student loans a mis-selling scandal as bad as PPI. He's right (& Lewis regularly outdistances all politicians in polls of who to trust). Osborne's behaviour over student loans was a significant reason why May lost her majority.
Osborne is a man without qualities, except a callow & reptilian ruthlessness.
"jumped up newspaper editor Tick
secured something that TMay chucked away - a Commons majority. Tick
She's a loser Tick
I feel there is incontrovertible evidence that all these statements are true.
https://twitter.com/thepostman314/status/868468771752751104
The EU doesn't have to take account of the interests of its ex-members, nor will it do so.
No-one talks of Blair & Brown's majority. They talk of Tony's big wins.
And his Chancellor, who had to be pushed before he would jump, then decided to take a job as an editor purely to snipe at those who he thought wronged him, while having nothing constructive to say and edging closer every day to being as unhinged as James Chapman.
What more needs to be said?