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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How leading Tories did in their own seats at the General Elect

SystemSystem Posts: 11,707
edited August 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How leading Tories did in their own seats at the General Election

Over the past few weeks when discussing Amber Rudd’s chances of succeeding TMay I have broadly dismissed those who have said the tightness of her majority in Hastings (346) rules her out of becoming leader. My argument had been that leaders generally do better in their own constituency than their party because of things like local pride.

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Comments

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    What is Johnson's majority? Labour seem to think they may be able to decapitate him next time and given how London voted in June I don't think that can be ruled out.
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    Had May not made herself a by-word for incompetence and cowardice during the time she may have experienced a boost.

    It would be interesting to see a graph comparing May in her seat as first election as party leader with historical comparisons to other leaders/PMs.
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    Glad to see I'm not alone in thinking Chris Grayling is a effing [moderated] beeping jeffing mother crusher.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    It's hard to interpret these numbers because, as Mike implies with his comment about London, swings varied considerably across constituencies for a number of reasons.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408
    Really interesting chart. If Rudd had not improved her vote she would have lost. I suspect May's personal performance reflected her overall performance: poor to rubbish.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited August 2017
    Corbyn appears to have another thing in common with Trump...going through advisors.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/88432/excl-top-jeremy-corbyn-spin-doctor
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2017
    Publicity shy Paddy Power have paid out on Mayweather.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,149
    Hastings might be a problem but Rudd could still do the chicken run to a safe seat.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Glenn, not a good look, though, especially when (in this scenario) taking over from a leader criticised as a coward for not turning up to debates.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,609
    edited August 2017

    Hastings might be a problem but Rudd could still do the chicken run to a safe seat.

    Tory rules make it very hard to do the chicken run these days.

    She'd need significant boundary changes to make a chicken run permissible.

    Plus it would send out a terrible signal.
  • Options
    FPT
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/23/ex-courier-charlie-alliston-convicted-for-mowing-down-kim-briggs-on-his-track-bike

    Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died

    Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
    It seems he entered unilaterally into a mutual pact where both sides are required to pay attention to their surroundings, but hadn't checked that that was what the other party agreed to.
    I was thinking more that if he was riding a bike with no front brake at 18mph he was behaving to put it mildly with criminal recklessness.
    Yes, a track bike isn’t a road bike. Lucky it wasn’t manslaughter.
    Presumably at some point it was deemed that whatever the bike, if someone behaves unpredictably (the pedestrian), then the chances of a collision increases dramatically.
    Indeed which is why there are legal requirements on brakes etc for anyone travelling at speed. So they are able to drive/ride safely and react to the unexpected.

    If a child runs in front of my car unpredictably and I have no chance to react then I'm not likely to get prosecuted though its still possible.

    If a child runs in front of my car unpredictably and I have a chance to react but I don't brake because I either choose not to or because I'm driving an illegal vehicle without brakes then I would be responsible.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    Alistair said:

    Publicity shy Paddy Power have paid out on Mayweather.

    LOL. I’ll take a random guess that they’ve laid a load on the Irishman, and not a lot at very short odds on for the American.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    After R-E-S-I-S-T from the arts panjandrums last week, Donald Trump is really on the ropes.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    FPT:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/23/ex-courier-charlie-alliston-convicted-for-mowing-down-kim-briggs-on-his-track-bike

    Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died

    Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
    Yes, I think so.

    There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
    As I've said before, you have to be fair to London cyclists.

    It's only the 90% that give the rest a bad name.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2017
    @williamglenn FPT

    Nothing to do with Boris - disliked him for 20 years.

    In Ireland I don't think we were ever simultaneously on both sides, but some judicious balancing allowed us to maintain our presence from the Treaty of Windsor until the Fully implementation of the Buckingham Palace agreement.

    In the American Civil War my mother's family fought for Tennessee, while my father's financed the Union.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445
    John Rentoul has been tweeting about this report:

    http://www.adamgray.london/2017scotland

    Looks like a mine of information for scottish election followers/punters.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scott_P said:
    After R-E-S-I-S-T from the arts panjandrums last week, Donald Trump is really on the ropes.

    I'm not sure that people who dislike Trump saying that they dislike Trump is particularly going to change anything.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    They’ve announced the fighters will wear 8lb gloves, rather than the usual 10lb gloves worn in championship fights, which possibly favours McGregor. Odds are now 1/4 Mayweather and 10/3 McGregor which still seems bonkers.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Alistair said:

    Publicity shy Paddy Power have paid out on Mayweather.

    Seems appropriate given that the whole sorry affair is just one big publicity stunt.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    Sandpit said:

    They’ve announced the fighters will wear 8lb gloves, rather than the usual 10lb gloves worn in championship fights, which possibly favours McGregor. Odds are now 1/4 Mayweather and 10/3 McGregor which still seems bonkers.

    They say it favours McGregor because everyone is thinking if McGregor hits him (with his left) then lighter gloves will be more effective.

    But it doesn't "favour" McGregor because he still has to hit him and Mayweather has been hit hard by any number of people previously. Wearing 8oz gloves doesn't give McGregor a free hit!
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Scott_P said:
    After R-E-S-I-S-T from the arts panjandrums last week, Donald Trump is really on the ropes.

    I'm not sure that people who dislike Trump saying that they dislike Trump is particularly going to change anything.

    I keep forgetting that irony doesn't work on the internet.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,008
    If you can't be bothered opening the link, yes he was

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/900388258479316994
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scott_P said:
    After R-E-S-I-S-T from the arts panjandrums last week, Donald Trump is really on the ropes.

    I'm not sure that people who dislike Trump saying that they dislike Trump is particularly going to change anything.

    I keep forgetting that irony doesn't work on the internet.

    Perhaps you could write a note that says "irony doesn't work on the internet" and stick it on your monitor?

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    isam said:

    If you can't be bothered opening the link, yes he was

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/900388258479316994

    He was let go by security because 'nobody realised' it was a 'real device'

    Blimey!!
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    edited August 2017
    isam said:

    If you can't be bothered opening the link, yes he was

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/900388258479316994

    Hmm. The article mentions none of the terms "Islam", "Muslim" or even "Asian".

    Him being called "Muhammad", then, must be a pure coincidence.

    Edit: And, of course, Nadeem Muhammad's motive for attempting to take this device onto a plane remains unknown.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,175
    edited August 2017

    What is Johnson's majority? Labour seem to think they may be able to decapitate him next time and given how London voted in June I don't think that can be ruled out.

    Uxbridge is 83rd on the Labour target list, if they win it they will have an overall majority anyway. Boris only cares about being PM and winning a general election if he fails to win his seat and he is leader he will have lost the general election anyway and head back to journalism and the lecture circuit
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/23/ex-courier-charlie-alliston-convicted-for-mowing-down-kim-briggs-on-his-track-bike

    Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died

    Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
    It seems he entered unilaterally into a mutual pact where both sides are required to pay attention to their surroundings, but hadn't checked that that was what the other party agreed to.
    I was thinking more that if he was riding a bike with no front brake at 18mph he was behaving to put it mildly with criminal recklessness.
    Yes, a track bike isn’t a road bike. Lucky it wasn’t manslaughter.
    Presumably at some point it was deemed that whatever the bike, if someone behaves unpredictably (the pedestrian), then the chances of a collision increases dramatically.
    Indeed which is why there are legal requirements on brakes etc for anyone travelling at speed. So they are able to drive/ride safely and react to the unexpected.

    If a child runs in front of my car unpredictably and I have no chance to react then I'm not likely to get prosecuted though its still possible.

    If a child runs in front of my car unpredictably and I have a chance to react but I don't brake because I either choose not to or because I'm driving an illegal vehicle without brakes then I would be responsible.
    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited August 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    They’ve announced the fighters will wear 8lb gloves, rather than the usual 10lb gloves worn in championship fights, which possibly favours McGregor. Odds are now 1/4 Mayweather and 10/3 McGregor which still seems bonkers.

    They say it favours McGregor because everyone is thinking if McGregor hits him (with his left) then lighter gloves will be more effective.

    But it doesn't "favour" McGregor because he still has to hit him and Mayweather has been hit hard by any number of people previously. Wearing 8oz gloves doesn't give McGregor a free hit!
    Yes, I got oz and lb wrong, 8lb gloves would be fun! < /DomJoly >

    Also, Mayweather reckons that McGregor could be quite a bit over the weight, if he doesn’t make weight he’ll have a financial penalty rather than have the fight cancelled. It’s possible Mayweather could be giving away half a stone.

    Agree with you, I can’t see this being a contest at all to be honest. Mayweather also knows where and how to land a big one, and I doubt it’ll take him more than a round or two. It could well be like an early Mike Tyson fight, where the referee starts counting to ten before the opening bell has stopped ringing!
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    isamisam Posts: 41,008

    isam said:

    If you can't be bothered opening the link, yes he was

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/900388258479316994

    He was let go by security because 'nobody realised' it was a 'real device'

    Blimey!!
    They let him pop home for the night afterwards too, then board a flight later in the week before he was arrested in Italy. The authorities are very lucky they didn't have hundreds of deaths on their hands.

    Almost as big an error as that letter sent to the Finnish Academic!
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    isam said:

    Almost as big an error as that letter sent to the Finnish Academic!

    That made me smirk :D
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,175
    Hillingdon of course voted Leave in the EU referendum unlike most of London which perhaps explains why Boris was the only senior London Tory to increase his vote at the general election
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    isamisam Posts: 41,008

    isam said:

    Almost as big an error as that letter sent to the Finnish Academic!

    That made me smirk :D
    :relaxed:
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,177
    isam said:

    isam said:

    If you can't be bothered opening the link, yes he was

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/900388258479316994

    He was let go by security because 'nobody realised' it was a 'real device'

    Blimey!!
    They let him pop home for the night afterwards too, then board a flight later in the week before he was arrested in Italy. The authorities are very lucky they didn't have hundreds of deaths on their hands.

    Almost as big an error as that letter sent to the Finnish Academic!
    Eureka, irony works!
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Scott_P said:
    After R-E-S-I-S-T from the arts panjandrums last week, Donald Trump is really on the ropes.

    I'm not sure that people who dislike Trump saying that they dislike Trump is particularly going to change anything.

    But people who voted for him, or agreed to work with his administration, changing their minds and very pointedly and sharply criticizing is having an affect. A lot who voted for him while holding their noses have left - more than enough to have swung the election.

    Last week, his administration had the air of a corpse in a funeral home. This week, not quite so much. But I truly believe that he cannot go through many more than one or two more weeks as disastrous as that one - particularly if such weeks come sooner rather than after a period of recovery.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Back in classical days men were men, and boxed with cestus. Which were ancient boxing gloves that might have spikes on them.

    They were also used by the villain Decius, in the videogame Shadow of Rome [if memory serves].
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,175
    MTimT said:

    Scott_P said:
    After R-E-S-I-S-T from the arts panjandrums last week, Donald Trump is really on the ropes.

    I'm not sure that people who dislike Trump saying that they dislike Trump is particularly going to change anything.

    But people who voted for him, or agreed to work with his administration, changing their minds and very pointedly and sharply criticizing is having an affect. A lot who voted for him while holding their noses have left - more than enough to have swung the election.

    Last week, his administration had the air of a corpse in a funeral home. This week, not quite so much. But I truly believe that he cannot go through many more than one or two more weeks as disastrous as that one - particularly if such weeks come sooner rather than after a period of recovery.
    Given the Democrats will now almost certainly take at least the House in the midterms next year the year us how Trump recovers and if he can do a Clinton 1994
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    isam said:

    If you can't be bothered opening the link, yes he was

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/900388258479316994

    Hmm. The article mentions none of the terms "Islam", "Muslim" or even "Asian".

    Him being called "Muhammad", then, must be a pure coincidence.

    Edit: And, of course, Nadeem Muhammad's motive for attempting to take this device onto a plane remains unknown.
    I am sure Muhammad is known locally as Bob.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    I don't know that the graph means much to me without knowing what percentage they started on - I mean May already had the second biggest numerical majority in the country
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    So a guy gets through security with a pipe bomb, but when I forget to take my belt off or have a toiletries bottle that is 1ml over all hell breaks loose.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    So a guy gets through security with a pipe bomb, but when I forget to take my belt off or have a toiletries bottle that is 1ml over all hell breaks loose.

    Security theatre.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Scott_P said:
    After R-E-S-I-S-T from the arts panjandrums last week, Donald Trump is really on the ropes.

    I'm not sure that people who dislike Trump saying that they dislike Trump is particularly going to change anything.

    I keep forgetting that irony doesn't work on the internet.
    Still, what MarkHopkins says appears to be true. Like the Emperor with no clothes Trump's ego seems to be self sustaining, with a little help from his sycophants.
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    So a guy gets through security with a pipe bomb, but when I forget to take my belt off or have a toiletries bottle that is 1ml over all hell breaks loose.

    I'm feeling rather peeved about it too.
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    So a guy gets through security with a pipe bomb, but when I forget to take my belt off or have a toiletries bottle that is 1ml over all hell breaks loose.

    Security theatre.
    Mrs Urquhart regularly gets the security theatre on transatlantic flights because she fits perfectly for evening up the anti racial profiling numbers.
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    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Back in classical days men were men, and boxed with cestus. Which were ancient boxing gloves that might have spikes on them.

    They were also used by the villain Decius, in the videogame Shadow of Rome [if memory serves].

    Whether gloved or bare knuckle boxing is safer is a subject of debate, but quite possible for lighter gloves or bare knuckles to be less dangerous.

    http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/11/bare-knuckle-boxing
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    So a guy gets through security with a pipe bomb, but when I forget to take my belt off or have a toiletries bottle that is 1ml over all hell breaks loose.

    It's inevitable. Security personnel know what a belt or toiletries look like, so can easily recognize them. They very, very, very rarely see a pipe bomb. So if that one in 10 million chance happens, the probability is extremely high that they will not see it for what it is.

    What evidence I have seen indicates that airport 'security' is not an effective means of interdiction, - rather it is more about deterrence and assuring the public that something is being done about security.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    They’ve announced the fighters will wear 8lb gloves, rather than the usual 10lb gloves worn in championship fights, which possibly favours McGregor. Odds are now 1/4 Mayweather and 10/3 McGregor which still seems bonkers.

    They say it favours McGregor because everyone is thinking if McGregor hits him (with his left) then lighter gloves will be more effective.

    But it doesn't "favour" McGregor because he still has to hit him and Mayweather has been hit hard by any number of people previously. Wearing 8oz gloves doesn't give McGregor a free hit!
    Yes, I got oz and lb wrong, 8lb gloves would be fun! < /DomJoly >

    Also, Mayweather reckons that McGregor could be quite a bit over the weight, if he doesn’t make weight he’ll have a financial penalty rather than have the fight cancelled. It’s possible Mayweather could be giving away half a stone.

    Agree with you, I can’t see this being a contest at all to be honest. Mayweather also knows where and how to land a big one, and I doubt it’ll take him more than a round or two. It could well be like an early Mike Tyson fight, where the referee starts counting to ten before the opening bell has stopped ringing!
    They'll both make the weight but McGregor will come into the ring at 165-170 while Floyd won't be far off the 154.

    IMO McGregor has some kind of a window in rds 2-4. For the first round or two he won't get near Floyd and nor should he try. The next couple of rounds Floyd will still be working him out and if he (McGregor) is disciplined and has learned well he might get a couple of shots off. After that he'll be gassed.

    But yes it should be a straightforward Mayweather win.
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    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    Cheers, my 5% figure wasn't that far out then.

    I am the God of history.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    Is that just for the ECW though? I should imagine the toll for all of the Wars of the Three Kingdoms over the British Isles might be a bit higher proportionally.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    Is that just for the ECW though? I should imagine the toll for all of the Wars of the Three Kingdoms over the British Isles might be a bit higher proportionally.
    Just the ECW, I think.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    "The English conflict left some 34,000 Parliamentarians and 50,000 Royalists dead, while at least 100,000 men and women died from war-related diseases, bringing the total death toll caused by the three civil wars in England to almost 200,000. "
    http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/english-civil-wars

    So, on a population of just around 5 million, that would give about 4%. (see table on page 209)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pV9SZS4WpjkC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=population+of+England+in+1640&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=7O47cpYWlH&amp;sig=mu-gX791jl2-h9nhuBv8G-6RI2c&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiF1vWi6O3VAhUn04MKHVZfDQQQ6AEISDAE#v=onepage&amp;q=population of England in 1640&amp;f=false
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    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    "The English conflict left some 34,000 Parliamentarians and 50,000 Royalists dead, while at least 100,000 men and women died from war-related diseases, bringing the total death toll caused by the three civil wars in England to almost 200,000. "
    http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/english-civil-wars

    So, on a population of just around 5 million, that would give about 4%. (see table on page 209)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pV9SZS4WpjkC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=population+of+England+in+1640&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=7O47cpYWlH&amp;sig=mu-gX791jl2-h9nhuBv8G-6RI2c&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiF1vWi6O3VAhUn04MKHVZfDQQQ6AEISDAE#v=onepage&amp;q=population of England in 1640&amp;f=false
    Thank you.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    "The English conflict left some 34,000 Parliamentarians and 50,000 Royalists dead, while at least 100,000 men and women died from war-related diseases, bringing the total death toll caused by the three civil wars in England to almost 200,000. "
    http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/english-civil-wars

    So, on a population of just around 5 million, that would give about 4%. (see table on page 209)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pV9SZS4WpjkC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=population+of+England+in+1640&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=7O47cpYWlH&amp;sig=mu-gX791jl2-h9nhuBv8G-6RI2c&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiF1vWi6O3VAhUn04MKHVZfDQQQ6AEISDAE#v=onepage&amp;q=population of England in 1640&amp;f=false
    I was too lazy to find a properly sourced answer :p
  • Options

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    That sounds about right.

    But it was higher in Scotland and much more so in Ireland (which was effectively a ruined country after a four sided civil war).
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    Ha ha. I’d guess Pence doesn’t have quite as many tattoos though.

    As someone said in 2009, who would ever have thought that the new president would be a black man and the best selling rapper would be a white man.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,370
    Hunt's case is a bit unusual as the main challengers were the National Health Action Party, who mopped up lots of cross-party support (a friend was thrown out of Labour for helping them).
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,230
    Silly question, probably. But shouldn't these position papers have been published and debated before Article 50 was served so that we went into the negotiations with a vaguely coherent sense of what we wanted?

    Re Mr M's question on the previous thread, I'll say this. One of my thread headers last year set out what I think the guiding principles of an immigration policy should be. (For anyone interested it can be found here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/31/mind-the-gap/).

    I don't think we should be deporting EU citizens who live here and are married to British citizens, as a general rule. If anything, we should be grand-fathering those who have been here and who have not behaved badly.

    However, I would make an exception for those who are convicted of serious crimes (murder, rape, fraud, terrorism, being a threat to this country etc). Bring an EU citizen or being married to a British citizen should not be a bar to deportation in such circumstances. I also feel that we should have the right not to permit the entry into Britain of those EU nationals who acquired such citizenship other than by birth in circumstances where we consider their presence undesirable (because of convictions / terrorism or similar) ie if they would not be allowed into Britain directly we should be able to bar them if they seek entry indirectly.

    The other issue which needs addressing is what entitlements such immigrants should get and when. I favour a system whereby immigrants should have to contribute for a certain period before getting benefits.

    And clearly there should be reciprocity for Uk citizens living within the EU.

    While this might not do much to reduce numbers (not my primary concern) it would at least address two other concerns that some have: that people arrive and get something for nothing ie contribution should precede - and by some years - entitlement and that people who break the rules should lose their right to be in our country. We should not be forced to have immigrants who are lawbreakers.

    Such measures would give the country some measure of control without shooting ourselves in the foot.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    "The English conflict left some 34,000 Parliamentarians and 50,000 Royalists dead, while at least 100,000 men and women died from war-related diseases, bringing the total death toll caused by the three civil wars in England to almost 200,000. "
    http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/english-civil-wars

    So, on a population of just around 5 million, that would give about 4%. (see table on page 209)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pV9SZS4WpjkC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=population+of+England+in+1640&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=7O47cpYWlH&amp;sig=mu-gX791jl2-h9nhuBv8G-6RI2c&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiF1vWi6O3VAhUn04MKHVZfDQQQ6AEISDAE#v=onepage&amp;q=population of England in 1640&amp;f=false
    Thank you.
    If you think of the size of the average family in those days, that means that nearly every nuclear family would have lost someone, and certainly would have done so at the cousin level of relatedness.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    They’ve announced the fighters will wear 8lb gloves, rather than the usual 10lb gloves worn in championship fights, which possibly favours McGregor. Odds are now 1/4 Mayweather and 10/3 McGregor which still seems bonkers.

    They say it favours McGregor because everyone is thinking if McGregor hits him (with his left) then lighter gloves will be more effective.

    But it doesn't "favour" McGregor because he still has to hit him and Mayweather has been hit hard by any number of people previously. Wearing 8oz gloves doesn't give McGregor a free hit!
    Yes, I got oz and lb wrong, 8lb gloves would be fun! < /DomJoly >

    Also, Mayweather reckons that McGregor could be quite a bit over the weight, if he doesn’t make weight he’ll have a financial penalty rather than have the fight cancelled. It’s possible Mayweather could be giving away half a stone.

    Agree with you, I can’t see this being a contest at all to be honest. Mayweather also knows where and how to land a big one, and I doubt it’ll take him more than a round or two. It could well be like an early Mike Tyson fight, where the referee starts counting to ten before the opening bell has stopped ringing!
    They'll both make the weight but McGregor will come into the ring at 165-170 while Floyd won't be far off the 154.

    IMO McGregor has some kind of a window in rds 2-4. For the first round or two he won't get near Floyd and nor should he try. The next couple of rounds Floyd will still be working him out and if he (McGregor) is disciplined and has learned well he might get a couple of shots off. After that he'll be gassed.

    But yes it should be a straightforward Mayweather win.
    Pretty much agree with that. Money will come out storming, the Irishman has to try and hold him off for a couple, but isn’t used to more than 15 minutes in the ring so there's only a small window of opportunity.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Sandpit said:

    Ha ha. I’d guess Pence doesn’t have quite as many tattoos though.

    As someone said in 2009, who would ever have thought that the new president would be a black man and the best selling rapper would be a white man.
    The version I heard was a little earlier, with the best golfer being black and the best rapper white.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    "The English conflict left some 34,000 Parliamentarians and 50,000 Royalists dead, while at least 100,000 men and women died from war-related diseases, bringing the total death toll caused by the three civil wars in England to almost 200,000. "
    http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/english-civil-wars

    So, on a population of just around 5 million, that would give about 4%. (see table on page 209)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pV9SZS4WpjkC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=population+of+England+in+1640&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=7O47cpYWlH&amp;sig=mu-gX791jl2-h9nhuBv8G-6RI2c&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiF1vWi6O3VAhUn04MKHVZfDQQQ6AEISDAE#v=onepage&amp;q=population of England in 1640&amp;f=false
    It probably underestimates war related civilian deaths from secondary effects of war, such as poverty, widows and orphans dying prematurely and disruption to normal economy.

    As I point out to some friends, sanctions are not neutral. It is quite possible that deaths due to sanctions in the interim between Gulf wars dwarf the deaths in both wars several fold.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    "The English conflict left some 34,000 Parliamentarians and 50,000 Royalists dead, while at least 100,000 men and women died from war-related diseases, bringing the total death toll caused by the three civil wars in England to almost 200,000. "
    http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/english-civil-wars

    So, on a population of just around 5 million, that would give about 4%. (see table on page 209)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pV9SZS4WpjkC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=population+of+England+in+1640&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=7O47cpYWlH&amp;sig=mu-gX791jl2-h9nhuBv8G-6RI2c&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiF1vWi6O3VAhUn04MKHVZfDQQQ6AEISDAE#v=onepage&amp;q=population of England in 1640&amp;f=false
    It probably underestimates war related civilian deaths from secondary effects of war, such as poverty, widows and orphans dying prematurely and disruption to normal economy.

    As I point out to some friends, sanctions are not neutral. It is quite possible that deaths due to sanctions in the interim between Gulf wars dwarf the deaths in both wars several fold.
    Agreed about sanctions. The other adverse effect of them is that it makes essentials scarce, thereby further enhancing - at least temporarily - the power of those (usually the dictatorship) who have the power over allocation and distribution of those now scarcer essential items.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. T, indeed. Sanctions don't bother the North Korean regime because those with the power are fine and don't care about the populace.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    Biggest mystery on the internet: My Sharona by The Knack has 7.5 million views but the official The Knack channel it's on has only 943 subscribers.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbr60I0u2Ng
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Rob Scottish cash machine
    Pay for holiday at English travel agent with £1700 in Scottish notes
    Get lifted by plod on return from holiday

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-40959802
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MTimT said:

    isam said:

    If you can't be bothered opening the link, yes he was

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/900388258479316994

    Hmm. The article mentions none of the terms "Islam", "Muslim" or even "Asian".

    Him being called "Muhammad", then, must be a pure coincidence.

    Edit: And, of course, Nadeem Muhammad's motive for attempting to take this device onto a plane remains unknown.
    I am sure Muhammad is known locally as Bob.
    No, Mo !
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ha ha. I’d guess Pence doesn’t have quite as many tattoos though.

    As someone said in 2009, who would ever have thought that the new president would be a black man and the best selling rapper would be a white man.
    The version I heard was a little earlier, with the best golfer being black and the best rapper white.
    Ah yes, Tiger Woods would have been #1 around ‘99 when Eminem’s first album came out and went Platinum.
  • Options

    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    Cheap and easy answer from Wikipedia suggests 100-200k out of five million.
    "The English conflict left some 34,000 Parliamentarians and 50,000 Royalists dead, while at least 100,000 men and women died from war-related diseases, bringing the total death toll caused by the three civil wars in England to almost 200,000. "
    http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/english-civil-wars

    So, on a population of just around 5 million, that would give about 4%. (see table on page 209)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pV9SZS4WpjkC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=population+of+England+in+1640&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=7O47cpYWlH&amp;sig=mu-gX791jl2-h9nhuBv8G-6RI2c&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiF1vWi6O3VAhUn04MKHVZfDQQQ6AEISDAE#v=onepage&amp;q=population of England in 1640&amp;f=false
    It probably underestimates war related civilian deaths from secondary effects of war, such as poverty, widows and orphans dying prematurely and disruption to normal economy.

    As I point out to some friends, sanctions are not neutral. It is quite possible that deaths due to sanctions in the interim between Gulf wars dwarf the deaths in both wars several fold.
    Indeed. That death toll, along with the support of Israel by the United States and the presence of US military in Saudi Arabia, was one of Bin Laden's stated motives for 9/11.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,177
    Alistair said:

    Rob Scottish cash machine
    Pay for holiday at English travel agent with £1700 in Scottish notes
    Get lifted by plod on return from holiday

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-40959802

    A convicted killer from the town of Crook.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,370
    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    geoffw said:

    Alistair said:

    Rob Scottish cash machine
    Pay for holiday at English travel agent with £1700 in Scottish notes
    Get lifted by plod on return from holiday

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-40959802

    A convicted killer from the town of Crook.
    Manslaughter + 2 armed robberies. Clearly unreformable, chuck away the key.
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    Sandpit said:

    Ha ha. I’d guess Pence doesn’t have quite as many tattoos though.

    As someone said in 2009, who would ever have thought that the new president would be a black man and the best selling rapper would be a white man.
    He looks a bit like Red Grant in From Russia With Love...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Sandpit said:

    Ha ha. I’d guess Pence doesn’t have quite as many tattoos though.

    As someone said in 2009, who would ever have thought that the new president would be a black man and the best selling rapper would be a white man.
    He looks a bit like Red Grant in From Russia With Love...
    Maybe a little
    image
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,997

    What is Johnson's majority? Labour seem to think they may be able to decapitate him next time and given how London voted in June I don't think that can be ruled out.

    11%. That's 10% better than in 1997, 14% worse than in 2010. As a whole, London has shifted by 4% from Con to Lab since 1997, and by 19% since 2010. Uxbridge is still moderately safe.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    Yes, thrice yes! I'd make cyclists take a test and have insurance. If I see another one by me on a dark wet January evening without lights ( I have seen one once exactly like this and on the wrong side of the road too), I will scream.

    Cycling is good for all the obvious reasons but they need to responsibly share the road and obey the rules as do the rest of us.

    I take your motorbike point too, and yes the continentals do seem better at this cycling lark in the round than we are. We could learn - including cyclists.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    What is Johnson's majority? Labour seem to think they may be able to decapitate him next time and given how London voted in June I don't think that can be ruled out.

    11%. That's 10% better than in 1997, 14% worse than in 2010. As a whole, London has shifted by 4% from Con to Lab since 1997, and by 19% since 2010. Uxbridge is still moderately safe.
    Its surprising to see how Labour Uxbridge constituency was in the 1950s:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxbridge_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    Did it have a lot of middle class suburbia built since then ?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,149
    welshowl said:

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    Yes, thrice yes! I'd make cyclists take a test and have insurance. If I see another one by me on a dark wet January evening without lights ( I have seen one once exactly like this and on the wrong side of the road too), I will scream.

    Cycling is good for all the obvious reasons but they need to responsibly share the road and obey the rules as do the rest of us.

    I take your motorbike point too, and yes the continentals do seem better at this cycling lark in the round than we are. We could learn - including cyclists.
    That reminds that I saw a cyclist going up the hard shoulder of the M1 a couple of weeks ago. Crazy.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @svdate: Trump apparently went off-script there a moment to say that his administration would stop terrorists from using the Internet to recruit.

    @mikesisak: Trump to terrorists: We're taking away your internet!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    Scott_P said:

    @svdate: Trump apparently went off-script there a moment to say that his administration would stop terrorists from using the Internet to recruit.

    @mikesisak: Trump to terrorists: We're taking away your internet!

    Isn't radicalisation via the internet a big problem?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Isn't radicalisation via the internet a big problem?

    Yes, but the Internet bit is neither the problem nor the solution. Apart from that...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    Isn't radicalisation via the internet a big problem?

    Yes, but the Internet bit is neither the problem nor the solution. Apart from that...
    Yes, but no? :p
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,177
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    Isn't radicalisation via the internet a big problem?

    Yes, but the Internet bit is neither the problem nor the solution. Apart from that...
    Yes, but no? :p
    bananas?
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    They’ve announced the fighters will wear 8lb gloves, rather than the usual 10lb gloves worn in championship fights, which possibly favours McGregor. Odds are now 1/4 Mayweather and 10/3 McGregor which still seems bonkers.

    They say it favours McGregor because everyone is thinking if McGregor hits him (with his left) then lighter gloves will be more effective.

    But it doesn't "favour" McGregor because he still has to hit him and Mayweather has been hit hard by any number of people previously. Wearing 8oz gloves doesn't give McGregor a free hit!
    Yes, I got oz and lb wrong, 8lb gloves would be fun! < /DomJoly >

    Also, Mayweather reckons that McGregor could be quite a bit over the weight, if he doesn’t make weight he’ll have a financial penalty rather than have the fight cancelled. It’s possible Mayweather could be giving away half a stone.

    Agree with you, I can’t see this being a contest at all to be honest. Mayweather also knows where and how to land a big one, and I doubt it’ll take him more than a round or two. It could well be like an early Mike Tyson fight, where the referee starts counting to ten before the opening bell has stopped ringing!
    They'll both make the weight but McGregor will come into the ring at 165-170 while Floyd won't be far off the 154.

    IMO McGregor has some kind of a window in rds 2-4. For the first round or two he won't get near Floyd and nor should he try. The next couple of rounds Floyd will still be working him out and if he (McGregor) is disciplined and has learned well he might get a couple of shots off. After that he'll be gassed.

    But yes it should be a straightforward Mayweather win.
    Pretty much agree with that. Money will come out storming, the Irishman has to try and hold him off for a couple, but isn’t used to more than 15 minutes in the ring so there's only a small window of opportunity.
    I disagree, Macgregor will be like a bull in a china shop, Floyd will keep out of his way. As you know I bigged up the 5/6 yesterday, I wish there was an outright mareket on a Macgregor DQ, I have it at evens.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    As a regular cyclist, I still do about 100 km a week, I completely agree with the need to clamp down. When i am a pedestrian I deliberately walk in a manner that makes life difficult for the pavement cyclist coming towards me. I put my head down so don't make eye contact, walk faster and not in a consistent manner from either side of the pavement. My objective is to make it hard for the errant rider certainly forcing them to swerve and hopefully to stop. If others did this it would cut down the problem.

    I'm also getting annoyed with those on disabled scooters who in many case are worse than the cyclist.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited August 2017

    Paging my fellow PB historians.

    How many people, in absolute numbers but more crucially in terms as percentage of the population died in the English civil war? And how does it compare to the figures in the American civil war?

    I've got a figure of 5% in my head, but no source for it.

    That sounds about right.

    But it was higher in Scotland and much more so in Ireland (which was effectively a ruined country after a four sided civil war).
    Figures from Charles Carlton's "Going to the Wars":

    England: 190,000 dead out of a pre-war population of c. 5 million, 3.7%

    Scotland: 60,000 dead out of a pre-war population of c. 1 millions, 6%

    Ireland: 618,000 dead out of a pre-war population of c. 1.5 million, 41%

    Total: 868 dead out of a pre-war population of 7.5 million, 11.6%

    And yes, the Irish figure is truly staggering. As Yeats put it, Cromwell's curse and Cromwell's murderous crew....
  • Options

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    As a regular cyclist, I still do about 100 km a week, I completely agree with the need to clamp down. When i am a pedestrian I deliberately walk in a manner that makes life difficult for the pavement cyclist coming towards me. I put my head down so don't make eye contact, walk faster and not in a consistent manner from either side of the pavement. My objective is to make it hard for the errant rider certainly forcing them to swerve and hopefully to stop. If others did this it would cut down the problem.

    I'm also getting annoyed with those on disabled scooters who in many case are worse than the cyclist.
    Some of those disabled scooters are driven in the spirit of Operation Barbarossa.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,008

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.


    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    As a regular cyclist, I still do about 100 km a week, I completely agree with the need to clamp down. When i am a pedestrian I deliberately walk in a manner that makes life difficult for the pavement cyclist coming towards me. I put my head down so don't make eye contact, walk faster and not in a consistent manner from either side of the pavement. My objective is to make it hard for the errant rider certainly forcing them to swerve and hopefully to stop. If others did this it would cut down the problem.

    I'm also getting annoyed with those on disabled scooters who in many case are worse than the cyclist.
    They do say "Show me the internet debating style and I'll show you the way a man walks down the street"!

    Well done on the 100km a week. I do about that, the best form of transport.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,681
    isam said:

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.


    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    As a regular cyclist, I still do about 100 km a week, I completely agree with the need to clamp down. When i am a pedestrian I deliberately walk in a manner that makes life difficult for the pavement cyclist coming towards me. I put my head down so don't make eye contact, walk faster and not in a consistent manner from either side of the pavement. My objective is to make it hard for the errant rider certainly forcing them to swerve and hopefully to stop. If others did this it would cut down the problem.

    I'm also getting annoyed with those on disabled scooters who in many case are worse than the cyclist.
    They do say "Show me the internet debating style and I'll show you the way a man walks down the street"!

    Well done on the 100km a week. I do about that, the best form of transport.
    I don't speak French.

    What's 100km in real money?
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited August 2017
    Re disabled scooters:

    More than once when I've been walking along the pavement I've heard a "Beeb beeb" noise behind me and it's been someone on a disabled scooter wanting me to get out of the way. What is it about being on wheels that stops you just saying "excuse me" like a civilised human being?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,681
    I don't understand the militant (read aggressive, narcissistic and self satisfied) attitude of many of London's cyclists.

    At times I've wondered if they're looking for a fight.

    At others that I'm not surprised there are so many nasty accidents.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    isam said:

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.


    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    As a regular cyclist, I still do about 100 km a week, I completely agree with the need to clamp down. When i am a pedestrian I deliberately walk in a manner that makes life difficult for the pavement cyclist coming towards me. I put my head down so don't make eye contact, walk faster and not in a consistent manner from either side of the pavement. My objective is to make it hard for the errant rider certainly forcing them to swerve and hopefully to stop. If others did this it would cut down the problem.

    I'm also getting annoyed with those on disabled scooters who in many case are worse than the cyclist.
    They do say "Show me the internet debating style and I'll show you the way a man walks down the street"!

    Well done on the 100km a week. I do about that, the best form of transport.
    I don't speak French.

    What's 100km in real money?
    Soixante miles
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,149
    philiph said:

    isam said:

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.


    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    As a regular cyclist, I still do about 100 km a week, I completely agree with the need to clamp down. When i am a pedestrian I deliberately walk in a manner that makes life difficult for the pavement cyclist coming towards me. I put my head down so don't make eye contact, walk faster and not in a consistent manner from either side of the pavement. My objective is to make it hard for the errant rider certainly forcing them to swerve and hopefully to stop. If others did this it would cut down the problem.

    I'm also getting annoyed with those on disabled scooters who in many case are worse than the cyclist.
    They do say "Show me the internet debating style and I'll show you the way a man walks down the street"!

    Well done on the 100km a week. I do about that, the best form of transport.
    I don't speak French.

    What's 100km in real money?
    Soixante miles
    At least we don't have to worry about the mile falling to parity, unlike the pound.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    philiph said:

    isam said:

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.

    Personally I feel more threatened in London by bikes than by cars, which may be irrational (my dad was knocked down by a bike and only had bruises) but reflects the fact the pavements are often involuntarily shared with bikes but virtually never with cars. The sense of alienation is increased by the militant attitude of some cyclists. I didn't feel it much in Denmark, where cycle paths are ubiquitous so there is little shared space.

    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.

    Alistair said:



    One thing I've only just learned about the case is that he switched his front wheel assembly (presumably for one with a brake) after the accident but police identified that was not kosher and recovered the front assembly he was using at the time of the accident.

    4.8 seconds between the woman stepping onto the road and the collision.

    That seems like quite a long time to be honest.


    The real speed merchants seem to me to be motorbikes. On motorroads, I almost never see a moorbike that is doing less than about 90, and some are clearly above 100.
    As a regular cyclist, I still do about 100 km a week, I completely agree with the need to clamp down. When i am a pedestrian I deliberately walk in a manner that makes life difficult for the pavement cyclist coming towards me. I put my head down so don't make eye contact, walk faster and not in a consistent manner from either side of the pavement.
    I'm also getting annoyed with those on disabled scooters who in many case are worse than the cyclist.
    They do say "Show me the internet debating style and I'll show you the way a man walks down the street"!

    Well done on the 100km a week. I do about that, the best form of transport.
    I don't speak French.

    What's 100km in real money?
    Soixante miles
    At least we don't have to worry about the mile falling to parity, unlike the pound.
    I actually LOL'd. More please!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,175
    edited August 2017

    Sean_F said:

    What is Johnson's majority? Labour seem to think they may be able to decapitate him next time and given how London voted in June I don't think that can be ruled out.

    11%. That's 10% better than in 1997, 14% worse than in 2010. As a whole, London has shifted by 4% from Con to Lab since 1997, and by 19% since 2010. Uxbridge is still moderately safe.
    Its surprising to see how Labour Uxbridge constituency was in the 1950s:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxbridge_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    Did it have a lot of middle class suburbia built since then ?
    I would imagine so, Uxbridge although technically in outer London suburbia is probably closer to Buckinghamshire which it borders than inner London
This discussion has been closed.