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  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    Scott_P said:
    weve already established nobody reads the FT except people waiting for job interviews in nail bars

    move on
    I do
    how much is a brazilian at your place ?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.

    The amount of the increase and how it is raised will be fascinating. The IFS just said that there is not enough money in labour's policy to tax the rich and corporations and that everyone will have to see their taxes increase, or experience big cuts in spending or very heavy borrowing.

    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I think the OBR said it would be a 9BN cost in the final year of the parliament and rather less each year before then, because fewer years' cumulative cap vs no-cap margin.

    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    There might not have been any economic logic to it but there was a political logic ie it transferred wealth from a group which didn't vote Conservative to a group which did vote Conservative.

    And George Osborne was a Chancellor who thought in political terms not economic.

    To be fair he wasn't the first to do so nor will he be the last.

    The long term problem though is that once something such as triple-lock pensions has been introduced its very difficult to stop it. As events of the last month have shown.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FF43 said:

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    Actually the more interesting point he made, that the EU is an agent of economic nationalism, is wholly wrong. That misunderstanding doesn't bode well for the good Brexit deal he is supposedly working for as Brexit Minister.

    Wishing the EU to disappear in a peaceful way is logical. If that happens (and there is no reason to believe it will in short order) the Brexit problem goes away.
    His fundamental point - a customs union is inimical to global free trade - is undoubtedly right though
    That's wrong. The barriers are the same to the outer world whether the line is drawn at national borders or at the outer edge of the customs union. Inside the customs union however the trade is free. If we take the UK as an example it's the difference between 50% free trade (to the EU) and 50% not free (to RoW) compared with 100% (to EU and RoW). For simplicity I make a binary distinction between free and not free , but trade within the SIngle Market will always be free-er than outside it.
    No: it internalises some of the gains from free trade to the members while reducing the likelihood of a global deal.

    Unless the customs union is fully autarkial it will be net net worse off than under free trade. And the world as a whole will be much worse off.

    It's like claiming sago is an adequate substitute for rice pudding
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    She sounds barking but with the Tories and Labour having taken their clothes on Brexit, ending free movement and leaving the single market and in the Tories case grammar schools an anti radical Islam message in the style of the FN or AfD may be the best way for them to go after the recent terror attacks

    It will at least give SeanT someone to vote for?
    SeanT may give her a few good write ups but I doubt he would vote for them, I don't think it would be allowed in Primrose Hill!
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    tyson said:

    Re football - just managed to get a £10.50 reduction on Sky's package including sport in HD - down from £83.50 per month to £73.00 per month by complaining that they were offering Sky sports to existing subscribers at £18 per month rather than £27.50 to those of us who have subscribed loyally for years.

    It is worth making bit of a fuss

    Well done Big Man....I wish sports were free on terrestrial TV...
    Thanks Tyson - thought I would share it on here as the football season is not far away.

    Mind you I have BT infinity so I get all the european matches on their platform for £3.50 per month
    If Man City go far and long...then your BT infinity deal is well worth the outlay.....
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    Drutt said:

    snip

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I think the OBR said it would be a 9BN cost in the final year of the parliament and rather less each year before then, because fewer years' cumulative cap vs no-cap margin.

    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Pay awards concentrated toward coalface blue lights would get the thumbs up here too.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,854
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    Actually the more interesting point he made, that the EU is an agent of economic nationalism, is wholly wrong. That misunderstanding doesn't bode well for the good Brexit deal he is supposedly working for as Brexit Minister.

    Wishing the EU to disappear in a peaceful way is logical. If that happens (and there is no reason to believe it will in short order) the Brexit problem goes away.
    His fundamental point - a customs union is inimical to global free trade - is undoubtedly right though
    It's a completely banal point unless he is also arguing against the nation state. It's just a question of how widely the borders are drawn.
    It's not banal. It's an important reason why the UK has historically opposed customs unions from the Zollverien onwards
    To be fair, if the EU were merely a customs union you would have a point, but it isn't and never has been. It is a political union.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,142

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.

    The amount of the increase and how it is raised will be fascinating. The IFS just said that there is not enough money in labour's policy to tax the rich and corporations and that everyone will have to see their taxes increase, or experience big cuts in spending or very heavy borrowing.

    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I think the OBR said it would be a 9BN cost in the final year of the parliament and rather less each year before then, because fewer years' cumulative cap vs no-cap margin.

    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    One of many paradoxes of the public sector cap is that by taking early retirement, I can have a pension that goes up by RPI, but by continuing to work I gain no more pension. The 2% real terms annual pay cut caused by 3% inflation outweighs any extra pension gained. There is a direct incentive to retire for all senior grades, at a time when recruitment is a major problem.
    I thought the 1% pay rise had been debunked, and that people actually get more than that?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited July 2017
    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    If there is one thing guaranteed to increase the majority of IDS it is having to answer the door to a bunch of Corbynistas when you are trying to sunbathe in the garden in the middle of July!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Re football - just managed to get a £10.50 reduction on Sky's package including sport in HD - down from £83.50 per month to £73.00 per month by complaining that they were offering Sky sports to existing subscribers at £18 per month rather than £27.50 to those of us who have subscribed loyally for years.

    It is worth making bit of a fuss

    Well done Big Man....I wish sports were free on terrestrial TV...
    Thanks Tyson - thought I would share it on here as the football season is not far away.

    Mind you I have BT infinity so I get all the european matches on their platform for £3.50 per month
    If Man City go far and long...then your BT infinity deal is well worth the outlay.....
    Born within 5 miles of Old Trafford and having lived through Munich in 1958 and having been in the Camp Nou with my daughter and son in law when Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wrote himself into history it is the glorious Man Utd not the young pretenders that I support
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Yer what?

    I'm sure you want to change the latter part of your second sentence.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    Actually the more interesting point he made, that the EU is an agent of economic nationalism, is wholly wrong. That misunderstanding doesn't bode well for the good Brexit deal he is supposedly working for as Brexit Minister.

    Wishing the EU to disappear in a peaceful way is logical. If that happens (and there is no reason to believe it will in short order) the Brexit problem goes away.
    His fundamental point - a customs union is inimical to global free trade - is undoubtedly right though
    It's a completely banal point unless he is also arguing against the nation state. It's just a question of how widely the borders are drawn.
    It's not banal. It's an important reason why the UK has historically opposed customs unions from the Zollverien onwards
    To be fair, if the EU were merely a customs union you would have a point, but it isn't and never has been. It is a political union.
    Sure. But Baker's speech was to the Libertarian Alliance on the EU and Fred trade
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    edited July 2017
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Looks like the thickies will take over imo and save the world to boot

    Yorkshire men are outright softies who run nail bars so they can never be the Starks

    your analysis of the Lannisters shows we agree theyre Londoners

    Baelsih is a Dubliner - London without the jellied eels
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat off topic, if not as much as kebabs, I had an interesting meeting with the fund managers looking after our corporate pension fund today. The take away point was that there is more than a trillion dollars of essentially untaxed money from US companies that their corporates cannot get into the US. $230bn from Apple alone. Trump is going to offer a window in which that money can be brought onshore for a highly advantageous tax rate with conditions that the money is invested in US industry. The effect should be QE on stilts with very positive effects on the USD and the rust bucket states. It may well lead to Trump's reelection and should fuel US growth. It will be a significant problem for Europe and London as a lot of the hot money there disappears.

    I was told this should be in place by October. Might be well worth putting a bet on Trump in 2020 before then.

    In the past tax amnesties have had bugger all impact on growth. They get spent on share but backs and other low multiplier items
    Never had anything like $1trn before but I agree it depends upon the conditionality that Trump manages to impose.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.

    The amount of the increase and how it is raised will be fascinating. The IFS just said that there is not enough money in labour's policy to tax the rich and corporations and that everyone will have to see their taxes increase, or experience big cuts in spending or very heavy borrowing.

    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I think the OBR said it would be a 9BN cost in the final year of the parliament and rather less each year before then, because fewer years' cumulative cap vs no-cap margin.

    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    One of many paradoxes of the public sector cap is that by taking early retirement, I can have a pension that goes up by RPI, but by continuing to work I gain no more pension. The 2% real terms annual pay cut caused by 3% inflation outweighs any extra pension gained. There is a direct incentive to retire for all senior grades, at a time when recruitment is a major problem.
    I thought the 1% pay rise had been debunked, and that people actually get more than that?
    The number of increments is reduced in the new contracts, with no automatic progression.

    Down banding with time limited pay protection often results in nominal pay cuts.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.

    The amount of the increase and how it is raised will be fascinating. The IFS just said that there is not enough money in labour's policy to tax the rich and corporations and that everyone will have to see their taxes increase, or experience big cuts in spending or very heavy borrowing.

    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I think the OBR said it would be a 9BN cost in the final year of the parliament and rather less each year before then, because fewer years' cumulative cap vs no-cap margin.

    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    One of many paradoxes of the public sector cap is that by taking early retirement, I can have a pension that goes up by RPI, but by continuing to work I gain no more pension. The 2% real terms annual pay cut caused by 3% inflation outweighs any extra pension gained. There is a direct incentive to retire for all senior grades, at a time when recruitment is a major problem.
    But if you retire you'll start voting Conservative :wink:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited July 2017

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,142



    The number of increments is reduced in the new contracts, with no automatic progression.

    Down banding with time limited pay protection often results in nominal pay cuts.

    Looks like half got above inflation pay rises - https://fullfact.org/health/are-nhs-workers-getting-4-pay-rise/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,405
    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    Actually the more interesting point he made, that the EU is an agent of economic nationalism, is wholly wrong. That misunderstanding doesn't bode well for the good Brexit deal he is supposedly working for as Brexit Minister.

    Wishing the EU to disappear in a peaceful way is logical. If that happens (and there is no reason to believe it will in short order) the Brexit problem goes away.
    His fundamental point - a customs union is inimical to global free trade - is undoubtedly right though
    That's wrong. The barriers are the same to the outer world whether the line is drawn at national borders or at the outer edge of the customs union. Inside the customs union however the trade is free. If we take the UK as an example it's the difference between 50% free trade (to the EU) and 50% not free (to RoW) compared with 100% (to EU and RoW). For simplicity I make a binary distinction between free and not free , but trade within the SIngle Market will always be free-er than outside it.
    No: it internalises some of the gains from free trade to the members while reducing the likelihood of a global deal.

    Unless the customs union is fully autarkial it will be net net worse off than under free trade. And the world as a whole will be much worse off.

    It's like claiming sago is an adequate substitute for rice pudding
    Only if we unilaterally, and unlike every other large economy, drop all customs and trade barriers. Being part of a customs union implies we are not going to do that for outer trade. We are for inner trade. The obvious problem remains. The other parties haven't dropped their trade barriers and those countries that were in the Single Market with us will apply new barriers. We are clearly more interested in what happens to our stuff than their stuff.

    Your point about reducing the likelihood of a global trade deal applies much more to country to country preferential trade agreements than it does to regional ones (although it applies somewhat to regional PTAs). The first are a lot more distorting in terms of trade substitution.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    edited July 2017

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Re football - just managed to get a £10.50 reduction on Sky's package including sport in HD - down from £83.50 per month to £73.00 per month by complaining that they were offering Sky sports to existing subscribers at £18 per month rather than £27.50 to those of us who have subscribed loyally for years.

    It is worth making bit of a fuss

    Well done Big Man....I wish sports were free on terrestrial TV...
    Thanks Tyson - thought I would share it on here as the football season is not far away.

    Mind you I have BT infinity so I get all the european matches on their platform for £3.50 per month
    If Man City go far and long...then your BT infinity deal is well worth the outlay.....
    Born within 5 miles of Old Trafford and having lived through Munich in 1958 and having been in the Camp Nou with my daughter and son in law when Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wrote himself into history it is the glorious Man Utd not the young pretenders that I support
    Always knew you were a sound chap.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Yer what?

    I'm sure you want to change the latter part of your second sentence.
    Sorry, you are right.

    For "at the end of the day" please read "all day long"
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Yer what?

    I'm sure you want to change the latter part of your second sentence.
    Sorry, you are right.

    For "at the end of the day" please read "all day long"
    try getting a Yorkshireman to spell "IQ"
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,838
    Greetings from Praha.

    Just wanted to say that comparing Corbyn to these people is frankly offensive. Wake up.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106
    DavidL said:

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Re football - just managed to get a £10.50 reduction on Sky's package including sport in HD - down from £83.50 per month to £73.00 per month by complaining that they were offering Sky sports to existing subscribers at £18 per month rather than £27.50 to those of us who have subscribed loyally for years.

    It is worth making bit of a fuss

    Well done Big Man....I wish sports were free on terrestrial TV...
    Thanks Tyson - thought I would share it on here as the football season is not far away.

    Mind you I have BT infinity so I get all the european matches on their platform for £3.50 per month
    If Man City go far and long...then your BT infinity deal is well worth the outlay.....
    Born within 5 miles of Old Trafford and having lived through Munich in 1958 and having been in the Camp Nou with my daughter and son in law when Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wrote himself into history it is the glorious Man Utd not the young pretenders that I support
    Always knew you were a sound chap.
    Indeed - a lifetime of support in good days and bad - when we were winning everything under Alex I went into a meeting with Sir Bobby Charlton no less, who made the wise observations to enjoy the success as football always comes with ups and downs
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat off topic, if not as much as kebabs, I had an interesting meeting with the fund managers looking after our corporate pension fund today. The take away point was that there is more than a trillion dollars of essentially untaxed money from US companies that their corporates cannot get into the US. $230bn from Apple alone. Trump is going to offer a window in which that money can be brought onshore for a highly advantageous tax rate with conditions that the money is invested in US industry. The effect should be QE on stilts with very positive effects on the USD and the rust bucket states. It may well lead to Trump's reelection and should fuel US growth. It will be a significant problem for Europe and London as a lot of the hot money there disappears.

    I was told this should be in place by October. Might be well worth putting a bet on Trump in 2020 before then.

    In the past tax amnesties have had bugger all impact on growth. They get spent on share but backs and other low multiplier items
    Never had anything like $1trn before but I agree it depends upon the conditionality that Trump manages to impose.
    Homeland Investment Act 2004. $299bn repatriated. 92% went on dividends/buybacks.

    "Repatriations did not lead to an increase in domestic investment, employment or R&D" study cited in NYT article by Floyd Norris June 4, 2009
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.

    The amount of the increase and how it is raised will be fascinating. The IFS just said that there is not enough money in labour's policy to tax the rich and corporations and that everyone will have to see their taxes increase, or experience big cuts in spending or very heavy borrowing.

    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I think the OBR said it would be a 9BN cost in the final year of the parliament and rather less each year before then, because fewer years' cumulative cap vs no-cap margin.

    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    One of many paradoxes of the public sector cap is that by taking early retirement, I can have a pension that goes up by RPI, but by continuing to work I gain no more pension. The 2% real terms annual pay cut caused by 3% inflation outweighs any extra pension gained. There is a direct incentive to retire for all senior grades, at a time when recruitment is a major problem.
    Public service pensions have been linked to CPI not RPI since Osborne sneakily changed it in 2010.This costs the average pensioner by £25,000 according to the TUC.I know this as I calculated my own loss to be £40,000 should I live to my expected age of death given to me by my GP.The Tories have always been thieves and remain thieves.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:



    The number of increments is reduced in the new contracts, with no automatic progression.

    Down banding with time limited pay protection often results in nominal pay cuts.

    Looks like half got above inflation pay rises - https://fullfact.org/health/are-nhs-workers-getting-4-pay-rise/
    Only by being promoted!

    Most NHs posts have 6 or so points in the pay band, so a Health care assistant Band 2 will reach the maximum after 6 years experience. That is as high as they can go (without retraining for another role).

    https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-pay-scales-2016-17

    The figures in your fact sheet are only true for those in junior roles. The percentages are high just because so many are very junior, and do not stick around in the job.

    One reason that recruitment and retention is such an issue in health care is that careers are short, often only a few years post qualification.

    I am on the top increment now so can not get promoted.


  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Yer what?

    I'm sure you want to change the latter part of your second sentence.
    Sorry, you are right.

    For "at the end of the day" please read "all day long"
    You're lucky that I'm not one of PB's snowflakes who gets upset when people call them thick.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2017

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Yer what?

    I'm sure you want to change the latter part of your second sentence.
    Sorry, you are right.

    For "at the end of the day" please read "all day long"
    You're lucky that I'm not one of PB's snowflakes who gets upset when people call them thick.
    That's because you don't understand what I'm saying... ;)

    Edit: and you're not a real Yorkshireman anyway...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.

    The amount of the increase and how it is raised will be fascinating. The IFS just said that there is not enough money in labour's policy to tax the rich and corporations and that everyone will have to see their taxes increase, or experience big cuts in spending or very heavy borrowing.

    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    One of many paradoxes of the public sector cap is that by taking early retirement, I can have a pension that goes up by RPI, but by continuing to work I gain no more pension. The 2% real terms annual pay cut caused by 3% inflation outweighs any extra pension gained. There is a direct incentive to retire for all senior grades, at a time when recruitment is a major problem.
    Public service pensions have been linked to CPI not RPI since Osborne sneakily changed it in 2010.This costs the average pensioner by £25,000 according to the TUC.I know this as I calculated my own loss to be £40,000 should I live to my expected age of death given to me by my GP.The Tories have always been thieves and remain thieves.
    My mistake, but the principle of my argument remains. It makes financial sense for me to retire as soon as I can.

    I can then return to work as a locum if I choose.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Yer what?

    I'm sure you want to change the latter part of your second sentence.
    Sorry, you are right.

    For "at the end of the day" please read "all day long"
    You're lucky that I'm not one of PB's snowflakes who gets upset when people call them thick.
    That's because you don't understand what I'm saying... ;)

    Edit: and you're not a real Yorkshireman anyway...
    That's fighting talk.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Greetings from Praha.

    Just wanted to say that comparing Corbyn to these people is frankly offensive. Wake up.

    Because Corbyn's anti-semitism is just a bit of harmless fun, presumably.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,381
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Some guy who isn't really British has just knocked out Ivo Karlovic.

    He has been a British citizen since March 2015.
    He moved here to play tennis. It's like the Adnan Januzaj case.
    I think you mean Greg Rusedski :)
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,092

    isam said:

    @Dixiedean = Mignolet kept Sunderland in the Premier League, Pickford saw Sunderland relegated

    Michael Keane would probably get in Liverpool's team
    I don't think 'pool will do well this year. Thie gegen press style combined with Chamions Leage will wear and injure them out by Christmas.

    Huddersfield for top 10 wouldn't surprise me though.
    As a Huddersfield season ticket holder I am still in a state of disbelief. We have already spent 16million on three players with a couple of 10 million signings about to be announced. All are current international players. With a canny chairman and an inspirational manager we could go far.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The "Brownshirts" comparison is compelling. How easily we forget that 1930s Berlin was plagued by radical Judaists detonating themselves in crowded places with cries of "Jahweh is the greatest".

    If there is a group comparable with 1930s Nazis in modern Britain, it is Muslim extremists
    pah who cares ?

    Game of Thrones is back, the only politics that counts
    The reason why it's been so long is that because Winter is Coming they had to wait for grim conditions to start filming.

    The Northern Ireland bits were shot last August
    they've beeen cut out of the programme because of the DUP

    it's now called It Aint half hot Mum

    I'd have thought the Lannisters would be DUPpers
    sheesh

    Starks obviously - theyre in the North

    or possibly Snows - Northern Bastards

    The Lannisters live in London
    The Starks are Yorkshiremen. Honourable to a fault, but really quite thick at the end of the day.

    The Lannisters are greedy incestuous bastards who no one like

    (Baelish is a Londoner. And Martin borrowed my family's name for part of his backstory - one of his extinct royal families)
    Yer what?

    I'm sure you want to change the latter part of your second sentence.
    Sorry, you are right.

    For "at the end of the day" please read "all day long"
    You're lucky that I'm not one of PB's snowflakes who gets upset when people call them thick.
    That's because you don't understand what I'm saying... ;)

    Edit: and you're not a real Yorkshireman anyway...
    That's fighting talk.
    You have a southern softie as your avatar QED
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    edited July 2017

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.


    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.
    Yes, although I think Big G is qualitatively right (hugely expensive, not costed, would be unwelcome question for LAB), I think the OBR said it would be a 9BN cost in the final year of the parliament and rather less each year before then, because fewer years' cumulative cap vs no-cap margin.

    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    I agree with you but I think you need to ask Corbyn why he rejected such a progressive measure along with the dementia tax.
    I will, next time I see him :smile:

    My point was if pensioners need protecting why don't public servants? The Labour manifesto wanted to protect both, which has a degree of constistency.

    Incidently Labour's manifesto costed the removal of the pay cap at £4bn over 4 years.

    I'd still like to see your source... I believe public sector total pay is circa £170bn pa. Inflation would have to run at 3.25% for the 5 years of this parliament to cause an incremental cost of £40bn (and that would not be a 'real' incremental cost of course.) If inflation does that, the 1% pay cap would be untenable anyway. Plus tax revenues would be increasing by 3.25%.

    Regarding the 200,000 extra employes, according to the ONS number of public sector workers in March 2014 = 5.409 million; in March 2017 5.424 million. Net increase 13,000.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Charles said:

    You have a southern softie as your avatar QED

    That's the Chairman of the Northern Powerhouse.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106
    slade said:

    isam said:

    @Dixiedean = Mignolet kept Sunderland in the Premier League, Pickford saw Sunderland relegated

    Michael Keane would probably get in Liverpool's team
    I don't think 'pool will do well this year. Thie gegen press style combined with Chamions Leage will wear and injure them out by Christmas.

    Huddersfield for top 10 wouldn't surprise me though.
    As a Huddersfield season ticket holder I am still in a state of disbelief. We have already spent 16million on three players with a couple of 10 million signings about to be announced. All are current international players. With a canny chairman and an inspirational manager we could go far.
    I hope you do - pity Denis Law is not in his prime
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    Given how unstable the government is, I don't blame Labour for being ready for another GE at short notice. And IDS is a viable target
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    dixiedean said:

    @Dixiedean = Mignolet kept Sunderland in the Premier League, Pickford saw Sunderland relegated

    Think that may be epic over simplification. Ask a SAFC fan which one they rate.
    I think Pickford's a very good player, my only concern is we've seen it before, a young promising English goalkeeper gets signed for big money and they kinda regress.

    Richard Wright, Chris Kirkland, those sorts of players. There are others.
    TSE, what odds will you give me that Everton finish above Liverpool?
    I think Skybet are offering 7/2 on Everton finishing higher than Liverpool if you want to bet on that, that seems fair to me, especially if as it seems Everton sell Lukaku to your lot, and Liverpool are going to spend close to £200 million in the next few weeks.
    So are you not offering me odds then?

    I would much rather have the bet with you as I don't have to tie my money up for almost a year, say £50 at 7/2 and I will donate any winnings to the site.
    Agreed.

    For the record, I'm worried about Liverpool, I can see us screwing up the play off match and tumbling into the Europa league, that's not a great way to start the season.
    Confirmed, £50 at 7/2 that Everton finish above Liverpool, with any winnings on my part donated to the site.

    I think Liverpool will come flying out of the blocks same as last season when they murdered Chelsea at the Bridge, but as someone upthread said the pressing style will catch up with them eventually.

    Is Sturridge still there or has he signed for Holby City yet?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    edited July 2017
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Yeh, surprise surprise, no one wants to lose seats.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    Given how unstable the government is, I don't blame Labour for being ready for another GE at short notice. And IDS is a viable target
    Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense. The government has a majority with the DUP. An election is in no way imminent.

    What is it about lefties and figures?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited July 2017
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    If there is one thing guaranteed to increase the majority of IDS it is having to answer the door to a bunch of Corbynistas when you are trying to sunbathe in the garden in the middle of July!
    I think demographics will do it for IDS and Boris and quite a few other Tory MPs in London quite soon - maybe even as soon as 2022.

    The white middle class Tory demographic is now restricted to a couple of solid wards in north Chingford and Woodford. More and more flats are being built in the south of the seat occupied by private renters which is essentially becoming north Walthamstow. And you saw the landslide Stella Creasy won by there.

    I wouldn't be surprised if both look for safer seats quite soon - outside the capital.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    dixiedean said:

    @Dixiedean = Mignolet kept Sunderland in the Premier League, Pickford saw Sunderland relegated

    Think that may be epic over simplification. Ask a SAFC fan which one they rate.
    I think Pickford's a very good player, my only concern is we've seen it before, a young promising English goalkeeper gets signed for big money and they kinda regress.

    Richard Wright, Chris Kirkland, those sorts of players. There are others.
    TSE, what odds will you give me that Everton finish above Liverpool?
    I think Skybet are offering 7/2 on Everton finishing higher than Liverpool if you want to bet on that, that seems fair to me, especially if as it seems Everton sell Lukaku to your lot, and Liverpool are going to spend close to £200 million in the next few weeks.
    So are you not offering me odds then?

    I would much rather have the bet with you as I don't have to tie my money up for almost a year, say £50 at 7/2 and I will donate any winnings to the site.
    Agreed.

    For the record, I'm worried about Liverpool, I can see us screwing up the play off match and tumbling into the Europa league, that's not a great way to start the season.
    Confirmed, £50 at 7/2 that Everton finish above Liverpool, with any winnings on my part donated to the site.

    I think Liverpool will come flying out of the blocks same as last season when they murdered Chelsea at the Bridge, but as someone upthread said the pressing style will catch up with them eventually.

    Is Sturridge still there or has he signed for Holby City yet?
    While I am pessimistic for Leicester at the moment, the players are just returning this week. Lots of comings and goings to come so I will not place season bets yet. I tend to leave it to the end of August. It was about Aug 20th 2015 that I put £1 each way at 3000/1 on Leicester winning the PL. Also £2 at 150/1 on a top 4 place. They had come out of the blocks flying, after a very poor summer (Pearson sacked, Cambiasso going, racist sex orgy etc).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    Enfield Southgate is now a Labour seat!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited July 2017
    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    Given how unstable the government is, I don't blame Labour for being ready for another GE at short notice. And IDS is a viable target
    Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense. The government has a majority with the DUP. An election is in no way imminent.

    What is it about lefties and figures?
    Erm, I'm not a leftie.

    The Cons only have a majority on confidence and supply votes. Anything else is fair game. It's easy to see something coming up, probably Brexit related that causes it to fall apart.

    After all, May called the election because her actual majority of 12 wasn't enough to get Brexit through
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: ... note warns Big pharma of "legal repercussions" of Brexit including moving marketing authorisation/other functions from UK to EU or EEA

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/881987096407363586
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Seems reasonable, with time off for everyone she grasses on.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Give her a 1-bedroom flat in Jaywick
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Seems reasonable, with time off for everyone she grasses on.
    Thought treason is the only remaining capital offence
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    slade said:

    isam said:

    @Dixiedean = Mignolet kept Sunderland in the Premier League, Pickford saw Sunderland relegated

    Michael Keane would probably get in Liverpool's team
    I don't think 'pool will do well this year. Thie gegen press style combined with Chamions Leage will wear and injure them out by Christmas.

    Huddersfield for top 10 wouldn't surprise me though.
    As a Huddersfield season ticket holder I am still in a state of disbelief. We have already spent 16million on three players with a couple of 10 million signings about to be announced. All are current international players. With a canny chairman and an inspirational manager we could go far.
    I have a mate who is also a season ticket holder, he gives me updates on the Chelsea loanees.

    Seems that Izzy Brown will sign a permanent deal and Kasey Palmer may stay on loan next season?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    If there is one thing guaranteed to increase the majority of IDS it is having to answer the door to a bunch of Corbynistas when you are trying to sunbathe in the garden in the middle of July!
    I think demographics will do it for IDS and Boris and quite a few other Tory MPs in London quite soon - maybe even as soon as 2022.

    The white middle class Tory demographic is now restricted to a couple of solid wards in north Chingford and Woodford. More and more flats are being built in the south of the seat occupied by private renters which is essentially becoming north Walthamstow. And you saw the landslide Stella Creasy won by there.

    I wouldn't be surprised if both look for safer seats quite soon - outside the capital.
    If the Tories win most seats they should still win both Chingford and Uxbridge though Ilford North and Enfield North are now probably gone to the Tories for good short of a 1983 or 1997 style landslide
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Seems reasonable, with time off for everyone she grasses on.
    Thought treason is the only remaining capital offence
    No longer, abolished under New Labour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    Enfield Southgate is now a Labour seat!
    Yes so if the Tories won it back and held Thurrock and Chingford they would be heading for a small overall majority
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    Given how unstable the government is, I don't blame Labour for being ready for another GE at short notice. And IDS is a viable target
    Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense. The government has a majority with the DUP. An election is in no way imminent.

    What is it about lefties and figures?
    Erm, I'm not a leftie.

    The Cons only have a majority on confidence and supply votes. Anything else is fair game. It's easy to see something coming up, probably Brexit related that causes it to fall apart.

    After all, May called the election because her actual majority of 12 wasn't enough to get Brexit through
    Brexit does not need to go through until 2019
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    Given how unstable the government is, I don't blame Labour for being ready for another GE at short notice. And IDS is a viable target
    Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense. The government has a majority with the DUP. An election is in no way imminent.

    What is it about lefties and figures?
    Erm, I'm not a leftie.

    The Cons only have a majority on confidence and supply votes. Anything else is fair game. It's easy to see something coming up, probably Brexit related that causes it to fall apart.

    After all, May called the election because her actual majority of 12 wasn't enough to get Brexit through
    Brexit does not need to go through until 2019
    That is, from your point of view, insanely optimistic
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,381

    Charles said:

    You have a southern softie as your avatar QED

    That's the Chairman of the Northern Powerhouse.
    The South will rise
    The South will rise
    The South is gonna rise again!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing d more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    Epping Forest also has elections next year as do about a third of non London councils in England but as far as London goes it will be trying to resist the tide, I expect Havering, Bexley and Bromley will stay blue, I would not be surprised if Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea and Wandsworth went to NOC, inner London was almost a wipeout for the Tories at the general election but there are still a few more patches of blur in the suburbs
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/881987771195371520

    FWIW, another rat leaves the sinking HMS Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/881987771195371520

    FWIW, another rat leaves the sinking HMS Brexit.

    Cummings ran the Vote Leave campaign, if anyone is responsible for Brexit it is him so he made his bed and can now lie in it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    Given how unstable the government is, I don't blame Labour for being ready for another GE at short notice. And IDS is a viable target
    Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense. The government has a majority with the DUP. An election is in no way imminent.

    What is it about lefties and figures?
    Erm, I'm not a leftie.

    The Cons only have a majority on confidence and supply votes. Anything else is fair game. It's easy to see something coming up, probably Brexit related that causes it to fall apart.

    After all, May called the election because her actual majority of 12 wasn't enough to get Brexit through
    Brexit does not need to go through until 2019
    That is, from your point of view, insanely optimistic
    No it is a statement of fact that Brexit talks are underway and will not conclude until mid 2019
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,726
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    The Tories would hold Barnet, Havering, K & C, Bromley, Bexley, on 2017's numbers. Hillingdon, and Sutton would be very tight.

    I expect K & C is now vulnerable, but Wandsworth and Westminster will be held in local election conditions.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,381

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Seems reasonable, with time off for everyone she grasses on.
    Thought treason is the only remaining capital offence
    No longer, abolished under New Labour.
    Johnny English got it wrong :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing d more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    Epping Forest also has elections next year as do about a third of non London councils in England but as far as London goes it will be trying to resist the tide, I expect Havering, Bexley and Bromley will stay blue, I would not be surprised if Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea and Wandsworth went to NOC, inner London was almost a wipeout for the Tories at the general election but there are still a few more patches of blur in the suburbs
    And those Boroughs where you have previously been in contention with significant opposition groups will be reduced to small rumps.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/881987771195371520

    FWIW, another rat leaves the sinking HMS Brexit.

    Blimey he has broken the Remain rule "Be partisan at all times and never admit the other side could have a point"
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    Given how unstable the government is, I don't blame Labour for being ready for another GE at short notice. And IDS is a viable target
    Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense. The government has a majority with the DUP. An election is in no way imminent.

    What is it about lefties and figures?
    Erm, I'm not a leftie.

    The Cons only have a majority on confidence and supply votes. Anything else is fair game. It's easy to see something coming up, probably Brexit related that causes it to fall apart.

    After all, May called the election because her actual majority of 12 wasn't enough to get Brexit through
    Confidence votes are the only thing that could cause an early election. The FTPA has changed everything. Tory MPs do not want an early election.

    The Government can lose other votes (including the Finance Bill!) and no election is triggered.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Seems reasonable, with time off for everyone she grasses on.
    Thought treason is the only remaining capital offence
    No longer, abolished under New Labour.
    I didn't know that
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,381
    HYUFD said:



    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    If there is one thing guaranteed to increase the majority of IDS it is having to answer the door to a bunch of Corbynistas when you are trying to sunbathe in the garden in the middle of July!
    I think demographics will do it for IDS and Boris and quite a few other Tory MPs in London quite soon - maybe even as soon as 2022.

    The white middle class Tory demographic is now restricted to a couple of solid wards in north Chingford and Woodford. More and more flats are being built in the south of the seat occupied by private renters which is essentially becoming north Walthamstow. And you saw the landslide Stella Creasy won by there.

    I wouldn't be surprised if both look for safer seats quite soon - outside the capital.
    If the Tories win most seats they should still win both Chingford and Uxbridge though Ilford North and Enfield North are now probably gone to the Tories for good short of a 1983 or 1997 style landslide
    Ilford North used to be the nice Tory end of Ilford :(
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,726
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    If there is one thing guaranteed to increase the majority of IDS it is having to answer the door to a bunch of Corbynistas when you are trying to sunbathe in the garden in the middle of July!
    I think demographics will do it for IDS and Boris and quite a few other Tory MPs in London quite soon - maybe even as soon as 2022.

    The white middle class Tory demographic is now restricted to a couple of solid wards in north Chingford and Woodford. More and more flats are being built in the south of the seat occupied by private renters which is essentially becoming north Walthamstow. And you saw the landslide Stella Creasy won by there.

    I wouldn't be surprised if both look for safer seats quite soon - outside the capital.
    I think Labour may struggle to match the 55% it won in London, next time. London has swung by 1.5% to Labour, since 1997, whereas the country has swung 7.5% to the Conservatives. But, there's a Conservative core vote in London.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,381

    https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/881987771195371520

    FWIW, another rat leaves the sinking HMS Brexit.

    Cummings = c***.

    It's actually £163 million a week (Net);
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited July 2017
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.


    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    Havering is already NOC. (Edited!)

    I think Bromley, Bexley and Barnet are safe. I don't know enough about local politics in the other boroughs, but I think the Tories have a good chance in Westminster, Richmond, Wandsworth and Hillingdon.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    edited July 2017
    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    The Tories would hold Barnet, Havering, K & C, Bromley, Bexley, on 2017's numbers. Hillingdon, and Sutton would be very tight.

    I expect K & C is now vulnerable, but Wandsworth and Westminster will be held in local election conditions.
    Of those, Kensington must be very dicey for obvious reasons; I would expect Barnet to go Labour, Sutton to stay LD, Bexley and Hillingdon the Tories will at least lose control. Wandsworth looks lost given the GE results. Havering, Bromley and Westminster will probably hang on but with smaller majorities than now. Richmond will go LD and in Kingston Tories will lose to both opposition parties.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Anxiety Over Brexit

    “Brexit Anxiety” has been a theme of recent polling on the topic and a lack of confidence in whether the government will secure a good deal for Britain is apparent:

    Which of the following statements is closest to your view?

    I am confident that the UK government will secure a good Brexit deal for the UK, once negotiations are complete - 38%

    I am not confident that the UK government will secure a good Brexit deal for the UK, once negotiations are complete - 49%

    Don’t know - 13%

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Conservative / DUP Arrangement



    Finally, the Conservative party’s confidence and supply arrangement with the DUP, is off to a poor start in terms of public opinion. Whether this is due to the public’s general dislike of coalition that was seen in the 2010 parliament or aspects more specific to the DUP were not covered in detail. It is worth noting that our pre-election polling (page 44) showed a dislike of non-majority parties in government.



    Do you agree or disagree with the Conservative Party entering into a confidence and supply arrangement with the Democratic Unionist Party, whereby the DUP’s MPs will support the Conservative government on key votes in the House of Commons?

    Agree 32%

    Disagree 57%

    Don’t know 11%

    Full tables are available here.

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Final-Daily-Record-Tables-1c0d1h7.pdf
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Seems reasonable, with time off for everyone she grasses on.
    Thought treason is the only remaining capital offence
    No longer, abolished under New Labour.
    I didn't know that
    1998, though it hadn't been used since 1945, and then perhaps unfairly as Lord Haw Haw was Irish:

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/oct/17/treason-act-facts-british-extremists-iraq-syria-isis
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited July 2017

    Anxiety Over Brexit

    “Brexit Anxiety” has been a theme of recent polling on the topic and a lack of confidence in whether the government will secure a good deal for Britain is apparent:

    Which of the following statements is closest to your view?

    I am confident that the UK government will secure a good Brexit deal for the UK, once negotiations are complete - 38%

    I am not confident that the UK government will secure a good Brexit deal for the UK, once negotiations are complete - 49%

    Don’t know - 13%

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Conservative / DUP Arrangement



    Finally, the Conservative party’s confidence and supply arrangement with the DUP, is off to a poor start in terms of public opinion. Whether this is due to the public’s general dislike of coalition that was seen in the 2010 parliament or aspects more specific to the DUP were not covered in detail. It is worth noting that our pre-election polling (page 44) showed a dislike of non-majority parties in government.



    Do you agree or disagree with the Conservative Party entering into a confidence and supply arrangement with the Democratic Unionist Party, whereby the DUP’s MPs will support the Conservative government on key votes in the House of Commons?

    Agree 32%

    Disagree 57%

    Don’t know 11%

    Full tables are available here.

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Final-Daily-Record-Tables-1c0d1h7.pdf

    Well the voters forced a hung parliament so tough and still give the Tories the lead with the same pollster
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    RoyalBlue said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.


    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    In order for the Conservatives to lose Havering, it would help if they actually held it now (they don't).

    I think Bromley, Bexley and Barnet are safe. I don't know enough about local politics in the other boroughs, but I think the Tories have a good chance in Westminster, Richmond, Wandsworth and Hillingdon.
    Enough of the "residents" councillors are proto-Tories that effectively Havering is a Conservative Borough with a Tory council leader.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    I am not at all a fan of Corbyn but I think equating him with Waters is grossly unfair to him.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Emily Thornberry would say we can't make this woman stateless. Any view?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/881982805621735426

    Technically you can't under international law. And the law matters.
    Try her for treason then if poss
    Is there any evidence?

    Story says she left the UK in 2004 to live with her husband who is now dead. She wants to return but if being prevented from doing so by ISIS
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want d Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    The Tories would hold Barnet, Havering, K & C, Bromley, Bexley, on 2017's numbers. Hillingdon, and Sutton would be very tight.

    I expect K & C is now vulnerable, but Wandsworth and Westminster will be held in local election conditions.
    Of those, Kensington must be very dicey for obvious reasons; I would expect Barnet to go Labour, Sutton to stay LD, Bexley and Hillingdon the Tories will at least lose control. Wandsworth looks lost given the GE results. Havering, Bromley and Westminster will probably hang on but with smaller majorities than now. Richmond will go LD and in Kingston Tories will lose to both opposition parties.
    Jewish voters ensured Finchley stayed Tory and may keep Barnet blue, they despise Corbyn, Richmond was won by the Tories at the general election otherwise looks plausible
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    IanB2 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    In order for the Conservatives to lose Havering, it would help if they actually held it now (they don't).

    I think Bromley, Bexley and Barnet are safe. I don't know enough about local politics in the other boroughs, but I think the Tories have a good chance in Westminster, Richmond, Wandsworth and Hillingdon.
    Enough of the "residents" councillors are proto-Tories that effectively Havering is a Conservative Borough with a Tory council leader.
    Forgive me - have corrected my original post.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726

    https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/881987771195371520

    FWIW, another rat leaves the sinking HMS Brexit.

    Cummings = c***.

    It's actually £163 million a week (Net);
    The most reasonable figure to use is £285 million a week. That is the gross figure ignoring the rebate which we never pay in the first place.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.

    We do not know how long this government will last, it keeps the canvassing team going and canvassing outside election time can be done more leisurely. It brings its own rewards as you gain kudos by being interested between elections, and have a good database to go back to.

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    That sounds like the 2015 general election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    RoyalBlue said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    One of my lefty friends on Facebook is interested in going to an event called 'Unseat Iain Duncan Smith'. It looks like a fairly well-attended canvassing session.

    It's rather disturbing how Labour seem to want to fight a continuous election. It's almost as if the far left doesn't recognise any democratically elected representatives other than its own.


    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections experience suggests it puts off more than it attracts. Campaigning should only restart in the autumn and then focused on the London and local elections next May unless circumstances make a general election more likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    Havering is already NOC. (Edited!)

    I think Bromley, Bexley and Barnet are safe. I don't know enough about local politics in the other boroughs, but I think the Tories have a good chance in Westminster, Richmond, Wandsworth and Hillingdon.
    Havering had a big UKIP vote in 2014 which will mainly go to the Tories next year
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,854

    FWIW, another rat leaves the sinking HMS Brexit.

    "In some possible branches of the future leaving will be an error"

    What a spineless argument. Cummings, like Gove, overestimates himself to an alarming degree.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    Drutt said:

    The public sector pay cap is receiving a lot of attention and not before time. I believe that this will finally 'out' Corbyn's incompetence on finance. Apparently to scrap the cap will cost 40 billion for this Parliament and this was not included in labour's manifesto.


    Apparently the pay freeze has financed 200,000 public sector jobs

    At last we should get the debate the GE missed

    Have you got any sources for the £40bn and 200,000 jobs BigG? I'd be interested in understanding more.

    Of course taxes will have to rise - services have to be paid for.


    But I think Gove and Boris are raising it to put Hammond in a difficult spot. Useful to have Phil the REMAINer tell everyone 'sorry, no magic money tree at No 11'. Boosts LEAVE's cause, and their own in two years' time.
    It is not just cabinet minister, 40 conservative MP's have demanded the end of the freeze and they have the power.

    I endorse their view and Theresa will test my membership if she does not agree a sensible deal for, in particular, the emergency services. However it needs to be addressed bottom up and nil at the higher salary levels
    Where's the logic in retaining the pensions triple lock, which necessarily ensures pension spending rises at inflation or better, whilst capping public sector workers pay?
    I agree with you but I think you need to ask Corbyn why he rejected such a progressive measure along with the dementia tax.
    I will, next time I see him :smile:

    My point was if pensioners need protecting why don't public servants? The Labour manifesto wanted to protect both, which has a degree of constistency.

    Incidently Labour's manifesto costed the removal of the pay cap at £4bn over 4 years.

    I'd still like to see your source... I believe public sector total pay is circa £170bn pa. Inflation would have to run at 3.25% for the 5 years of this parliament to cause an incremental cost of £40bn (and that would not be a 'real' incremental cost of course.) If inflation does that, the 1% pay cap would be untenable anyway. Plus tax revenues would be increasing by 3.25%.

    Regarding the 200,000 extra employes, according to the ONS number of public sector workers in March 2014 = 5.409 million; in March 2017 5.424 million. Net increase 13,000.
    The absence of automatic pay rises with inflation leads to churn, ie people spending more time looking for new jobs with better pay. Thats what I have done. Having people move around a lot is incredibly disruptive and harms institutional memory.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,726
    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    The Tories have a party membership that is low, and similtaneously aging. They increasingly struggle to pound pavements. They are increasingly dependent on phone banks and paid for internet Ads. Labour activists do it for free, more personally and more effectively.

    If business goes cold on funding the Tories they will be very short of effective campaign means next time.
    People are fed up of elections and referendums and just want a summer, this will backfire on the Corbynistas. In any case the Tories have volunteers it was just they were too ambitious last time and sent mainly to target Labour seats, next time they will also be sent to Tory marginals. I speak from experience as an Epping Forest Tory we were sent to Ilford North and Enfield North and Thurrock, next time it will be Chingford, Thurrock and Enfield Southgate
    The Tories having no majority and preparing for a defensive campaign tells us all we need to know.
    Actually preparing a more sensible strategy, ie defend the local marginal seats we hold and add 1 or 2 lost in 2017. That reflects the current polls and if all the seats are won would give a small Tory majority, there is no point trying for a landslide again as it is a waste of resources. However there is also no point campaigning over the summer after county and general elections ore likely
    I would suggest that, unless something unexpected changes quite dramatically, you are facing oncoming doom as far as the London 2018 elections are concerned. Apart from Westminster and Havering, and possibly Bromley, it is hard to see where else the Tories can resist the perfect storm?
    The Tories would hold Barnet, Havering, K & C, Bromley, Bexley, on 2017's numbers. Hillingdon, and Sutton would be very tight.

    I expect K & C is now vulnerable, but Wandsworth and Westminster will be held in local election conditions.
    Of those, Kensington must be very dicey for obvious reasons; I would expect Barnet to go Labour, Sutton to stay LD, Bexley and Hillingdon the Tories will at least lose control. Wandsworth looks lost given the GE results. Havering, Bromley and Westminster will probably hang on but with smaller majorities than now. Richmond will go LD and in Kingston Tories will lose to both opposition parties.
    Bexley is quite safe, IMHO. I think Barnet will retain a very narrow Conservative lead (currently 32-30). The Conservatives have long outpolled their Parliamentary results at local level in Wandsworth.
This discussion has been closed.