Can't EU nationals vote in local elections currently? Taking that right away is disenfranchising them.
What we are making clear to EU27 citizens is that we believe they currently have too many rights and we are not really that bothered if removing some of them causes upset. This will make little difference lower down the scale, but it will make the UK a far less attractive place to locate or remain for those whose skillsets give them a choice.
The damage the UK is currently doing to its international standing is immense. The flag-waving party is inflicting substantial harm on what it professes to care about most. But there is an upside: as the UK becomes ever-more irrelevant internationally, we can drop the pretence that we sre a major international player and save ourselves a lot of money on projects like Trident.
That right is not going to be taken away, as you only need to be resident in the UK to vote in the local elections, regardless of your nationality.
No idea who you vote for, if you're a Tory then you epitomise why May messed up so badly and why vast swathes of the country loathe the Conservative Party.
Have a think about why Corbyn is so popular and how you can combat it. Here's a clue, stop insulting people who vote for him, think Trump and Brexit and how that worked out.
No idea who you vote for, if you're a Tory then you epitomise why May messed up so badly and why vast swathes of the country loathe the Conservative Party.
Have a think about why Corbyn is so popular and how you can combat it. Here's a clue, stop insulting people who vote for him, think Trump and Brexit and how that worked out.
Corbyn is so popular because he promises a lot of stuff for a lot of people, the funding for most of which comes out of his arse.
But free stuff? What's not to like.
The Cons ran an abysmal campaign and god only knows what they think about any particular policy; they are all over the place. But they are 1,000,000 times better than a Corbyn-led Labour government.
Edit: and sadly, I must be away, but I will return & look at your response if there is one.
-2500 = 1.04, What the bookie thinks the true odds should be -725 = 1.14, Where the odds are now.
He might start even longer.
I am sorely tempted to break my no betting on boxing rule for those odds.
Ring magazine reckons he might start as long as 1-5.
Of course there is always the possibility that Mayweather throws the match for a ludicrous money rematch, but that's the only way he will lose. The money is all one way - for McGregor !
No idea who you vote for, if you're a Tory then you epitomise why May messed up so badly and why vast swathes of the country loathe the Conservative Party.
Have a think about why Corbyn is so popular and how you can combat it. Here's a clue, stop insulting people who vote for him, think Trump and Brexit and how that worked out.
Corbyn is so popular because he promises a lot of stuff for a lot of people, the funding for most of which comes out of his arse.
But free stuff? What's not to like.
The Cons ran an abysmal campaign and god only knows what they think about any particular policy; they are all over the place. But they are 1,000,000 times better than a Corbyn-led Labour government.
Edit: and sadly, I must be away, but I will return & look at your response if there is one.
It seems some people still don't get it, oh well. The Conservative Party is in a bigger mess than I imagined.
Yep - this is precisely why the election result filled me with so much joy. The swivel-eyed, Brexit right lost its power to wreak untold damage on the UK.
I think a fine system should be introduced for every time you use 'swivel-eyed'.
Hugely offensive.
Snowflake.
Where's that list?
Just a joke, turning the tables really ;-) However, do you think that 'swivel-eyed' is worse than being called a 'plank'. Both are used about anti and pro EU posts respectively today. Personally I dislike that sort of insult but can't get too worked up about it. I certainly don't think that it was 'Hugely offensive'.
I used "plank" gratuitously and deliberately to highlight the stupidity of those Remainers who think public opinion is with them. To emphasise my point, to them the majority are "swivel eyed".
Ah..I see you meant in our exchange that Remainers were ignoring public opinion (or thinking that it was one thing when the poll said it was another).
Apols; I thought you had meant that as the public was in favour of something, it was right.
I meant both.
If I believe in something Father Christmas you have every right to call me names, if I vote for Corbyn (along with millions of others) I am not wrong.
Its called democracy mate, one man one vote, not one person telling others they're wrong to prefer one politician over another.
Ah good because I thought I hadn't misread your post too much.
If you vote for Jeremy Corbyn you most certainly are wrong because he would be a disaster for the country.
You would be definitely, categorically, this is the one objective truth, incontrovertibly wrong.
I am no Corbyn fan boy but May has not been ...... an asset for the country!
Scarey report on the news this morning. The cyber attack was extremely sophisticated with several lines of attack and the ransomware demand was a crude add on that didn't work. Looks like a true state sponsered attack on IT systems. Don't know if Ukraine was specifically targeted but the collateral damage has been huge.
Can't EU nationals vote in local elections currently? Taking that right away is disenfranchising them.
What we are making clear to EU27 citizens is that we believe they currently have too many rights and we are not really that bothered if removing some of them causes upset. This will make little difference lower down the scale, but it will make the UK a far less attractive place to locate or remain for those whose skillsets give them a choice.
The damage the UK is currently doing to its international standing is immense. The flag-waving party is inflicting substantial harm on what it professes to care about most. But there is an upside: as the UK becomes ever-more irrelevant internationally, we can drop the pretence that we sre a major international player and save ourselves a lot of money on projects like Trident.
That right is not going to be taken away, as you only need to be resident in the UK to vote in the local elections, regardless of your nationality.
Just flicking through the last few threads it's interesting how the more more cerebral anti EU factions seem to be undergoing a metamorphosis.
A gradual peeling away as the enormity of the error comes into focus.
I don't think it's too early to predict that as this episode reaches its climax towards the middle of next year the Leavers will be reduced to a rag-tag of 'the bigoted the ignorant and those who don't have the capacity to enquire' (the haggadah...ish)
Yep - this is precisely why the election result filled me with so much joy. The swivel-eyed, Brexit right lost its power to wreak untold damage on the UK.
I think a fine system should be introduced for every time you use 'swivel-eyed'.
Hugely offensive.
It neatly encapsulates the obssesive anti-European, Atlanticist right who are prepared to inflict immense damage on the UK's citizens and the country's international standing in order to turn us into a low regulation offshore island. I find that pretty offensive. Trump's toxicity and the general election result have scuppered them. Rejoice!
Bollocks. They are just passionate advocates of an independent self-governing Britain, that's all. They don't get everything right, by all means, but they don't deserve the insults you throw at them.
You need to have a lie down.
Ha, ha - they called people like me citizens of nowhere, saboteurs and enemies of the people. They are not passionate, they are cynical and mendacious plastic patriots with no interest whatsoever in the UK's good standing or the welfare of its citizens. I will not take that lying down. I am British, after all.
Fuck off.
That's the spirit. There's a place for you on the UK's Brexit negotiation team :-D
Re: the ID card thing: the plan is presumably to give all EU citizens biometric visas similar to those who currently get ILR. They certainly look like ID cards (my wife had one before she became a citizen). but are only used at the border and to confirm eligibility to work.
The UK doesn't put stickers in passports any more)
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Today, I'll be having a drink in Liverpool with the old gits. The day before the referendum we took a vote among ourselves and split 3 - 3. Then we went on to more important matters.
The other week, the subject cropped up again. We were still 3 - 3 on the principle, but only one of us would be in favour of another referendum - and that was said with embarrassment. The two other Remainers' view ... we had a vote, the decision was made, now lets get on with it.
Remember that the few noisy people on here are just that. Few and noisy.
Mr. Borough, my sympathies (I have a lot of experience of buggering up leadership contest betting myself, just got lucky with the timing this time. Excepting the Davey announcement, I was online when the other important ones [Swinson, Cable, Lamb] came out and bet accordingly).
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Please explain this reality you talk of.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
-2500 = 1.04, What the bookie thinks the true odds should be -725 = 1.14, Where the odds are now.
He might start even longer.
I am sorely tempted to break my no betting on boxing rule for those odds.
Ring magazine reckons he might start as long as 1-5.
Of course there is always the possibility that Mayweather throws the match for a ludicrous money rematch, but that's the only way he will lose. The money is all one way - for McGregor !
The last time I saw odds so out of line with reality in a boxing match was Hayes-Harrison.
You fight how you train and McGregor trains to grapple people and kick them. Thai Kick boxers who step into boxing rings have a hard time of it as their stance is based around not gettin the shit kicked out of their legs - how does the public think a MMA fighter is going to fare?
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Please explain this reality you talk of.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
Surely we want the best Brexit deal possible, don't we? Maybe once the government has worked out what that might be they can start trying to secure it.
Today, I'll be having a drink in Liverpool with the old gits. The day before the referendum we took a vote among ourselves and split 3 - 3. Then we went on to more important matters.
The other week, the subject cropped up again. We were still 3 - 3 on the principle, but only one of us would be in favour of another referendum - and that was said with embarrassment. The two other Remainers' view ... we had a vote, the decision was made, now lets get on with it.
Remember that the few noisy people on here are just that. Few and noisy.
We can't get on with it until the government works out what it is.
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Please explain this reality you talk of.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
Surely we want the best Brexit deal possible, don't we? Maybe once the government has worked out what that might be they can start trying to secure it.
"We" as in 75% according to BBC want the best Brexit deal, yep.
"You" and the other King Canuters are still sulking and don't want Brexit at all.
You'll have to suck it up in the end, despite all the wailing.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
I think you misinterpreted my original post
When I said "The Brexiteers are having a nightmare that it's all falling apart. Trouble is, they're awake...", I didn't mean Brexit was not happening.
No, the nightmare for Brexiteers is that it IS happening, but it's not the Brexit of £350m a week of the NHS, or German car makers begging us for deal.
It's the Brexit we were warned about. We will be a much diminished Nation when all is said and done.
-2500 = 1.04, What the bookie thinks the true odds should be -725 = 1.14, Where the odds are now.
He might start even longer.
I am sorely tempted to break my no betting on boxing rule for those odds.
Ring magazine reckons he might start as long as 1-5.
Of course there is always the possibility that Mayweather throws the match for a ludicrous money rematch, but that's the only way he will lose. The money is all one way - for McGregor !
The last time I saw odds so out of line with reality in a boxing match was Hayes-Harrison.
You fight how you train and McGregor trains to grapple people and kick them. Thai Kick boxers who step into boxing rings have a hard time of it as their stance is based around not gettin the shit kicked out of their legs - how does the public think a MMA fighter is going to fare?
Hopeless. If the EU had wanted what you said, they only needed to ask for it and the UK would have agreed. In fact, they overreached thinking they could force the ECJ on the UK for citizens rights as a prelude for the same trick later in the trade talks. Now they will have to back down and make the first public concession in the negotiations.
Hopefully the EU continue to be this inept as we go forward.
The EU seems to have got what it wants - a UK commitment to creating a mechanism that ensures the UK cannot unilaterally change the rights of EU citizens residing in the UK post-Brexit. So, I'd say the EU's decision to make its opening position ECJ control was entirely rational.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
I think you misinterpreted my original post
When I said "The Brexiteers are having a nightmare that it's all falling apart. Trouble is, they're awake...", I didn't mean Brexit was not happening.
No, the nightmare for Brexiteers is that it IS happening, but it's not the Brexit of £350m a week of the NHS, or German car makers begging us for deal.
It's the Brexit we were warned about. We will be a much diminished Nation when all is said and done.
Still, blue passports are worth it, right?
Have you considered why the figure of 52% has risen to 75%?
"We can't get on with it until the government works out what it is."
The Government can propose, the negotiations will dispose. It will be confrontational and adversarial. We won't get what we ask for, and neither will the EU. Setting up 'must haves' when we're split on that is pointless. The EU want us to have the worst deal possible. We (whoever we are) want the best deal - that's basic politics.
I'll tell you what we'd like ... the best trade deal commensurate with leaving.
I'd expect our 'side' want the same. If they don't, they're on the EU's side. They're not traitors, they just think differently.
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Please explain this reality you talk of.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
Surely we want the best Brexit deal possible, don't we? Maybe once the government has worked out what that might be they can start trying to secure it.
"We" as in 75% according to BBC want the best Brexit deal, yep.
"You" and the other King Canuters are still sulking and don't want Brexit at all.
You'll have to suck it up in the end, despite all the wailing.
I'll exercise my democratic right to wail all I like until the stupid end. Rage, rage, rage against the dying of the light...
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
I think you misinterpreted my original post
When I said "The Brexiteers are having a nightmare that it's all falling apart. Trouble is, they're awake...", I didn't mean Brexit was not happening.
No, the nightmare for Brexiteers is that it IS happening, but it's not the Brexit of £350m a week of the NHS, or German car makers begging us for deal.
It's the Brexit we were warned about. We will be a much diminished Nation when all is said and done.
Still, blue passports are worth it, right?
Have you considered why the figure of 52% has risen to 75%?
Just a thought.
Yes, it's because people like me (and possibly Scott too) think that having made the decision, however stupid it may have been, we should stick by it and make the best of it that we possibly can.
This doesn't in any way undermine the points Scott makes, which I think are all valid. It's just an indication that we are respectful of the referendum decision, and realistic enough to accept that backtracking now probably wouldn't do much good, even if it were possible.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
I think you misinterpreted my original post
When I said "The Brexiteers are having a nightmare that it's all falling apart. Trouble is, they're awake...", I didn't mean Brexit was not happening.
No, the nightmare for Brexiteers is that it IS happening, but it's not the Brexit of £350m a week of the NHS, or German car makers begging us for deal.
It's the Brexit we were warned about. We will be a much diminished Nation when all is said and done.
Still, blue passports are worth it, right?
Have you considered why the figure of 52% has risen to 75%?
Just a thought.
The Remainers have fled the country for somewhere sane?
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Please explain this reality you talk of.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
Surely we want the best Brexit deal possible, don't we? Maybe once the government has worked out what that might be they can start trying to secure it.
"We" as in 75% according to BBC want the best Brexit deal, yep.
"You" and the other King Canuters are still sulking and don't want Brexit at all.
You'll have to suck it up in the end, despite all the wailing.
I am not sulking. On a personal level Brexit makes no difference. In fact, the falling pound made our company more profitable in our last FY as we bill mainly in dollars and Euros. However, I am rather cross that this shambolic government has yet to work out a Brexit negotiation strategy, let alone a way of persuading the EU27 that it's in their interests to agree a wide-ranging deal as soon as possible. It's already doing immense harm to the UK's international standing, is putting downward pressure on living standards and is having a negative impact on investment decisions. As a patriot that makes me frustrated and angry.
Yep - this is precisely why the election result filled me with so much joy. The swivel-eyed, Brexit right lost its power to wreak untold damage on the UK.
The damage to the UK will be done by the EU who will be bloody difficult dealing with the recalcitrant ex-member and impose a punitive Brexit pour encourager les autres. I expect the relationship between the EU and the UK post 29/3/19 to be similar to be that between them and other major countries close to but not fully within Europe, namely Russia and Turkey.
I don't. The problem at the moment is that our side - Hammond excepted, it seems - has yet to come to grips with what the reality of Brexit entails. People like Davis have been religious about it for so long they have yet to accept that leaving the EU is not as easy and as beneficial is they had always thought. Reality will intrude, of course, and is beginning to do so.
It will not be easy, just as in the late 1930s/1940 it would have been much easier for the UK to align itself with the Axis powers.
the EU..... is a rational actor. Right now, the UK is not.
Is the UK arguing that UK citizens in the EU should protect their rights via the UK Supreme Court, as the EU is demanding for EU citizens in the UK & the ECJ?
Which is rational?
Both EU and UK citizens rightly or wrongly trust the ECJ to protect their rights better than any UK court. The UK proposals don't include any legally enforceable guarantees.
UK Courts are honest and impartial. They frequently rule against the Government. So, I'd trust them to protect my rights. I'm not convinced that the ECJ is held in high esteem in this country.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
I think you misinterpreted my original post
When I said "The Brexiteers are having a nightmare that it's all falling apart. Trouble is, they're awake...", I didn't mean Brexit was not happening.
No, the nightmare for Brexiteers is that it IS happening, but it's not the Brexit of £350m a week of the NHS, or German car makers begging us for deal.
It's the Brexit we were warned about. We will be a much diminished Nation when all is said and done.
Still, blue passports are worth it, right?
Have you considered why the figure of 52% has risen to 75%?
Just a thought.
Your 75% includes those who believe that the EU powers should be reduced so to claim it as an increase from the referendum result is stretchit somewhat
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Please explain this reality you talk of.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
Surely we want the best Brexit deal possible, don't we? Maybe once the government has worked out what that might be they can start trying to secure it.
"We" as in 75% according to BBC want the best Brexit deal, yep.
"You" and the other King Canuters are still sulking and don't want Brexit at all.
You'll have to suck it up in the end, despite all the wailing.
I'll exercise my democratic right to wail all I like until the stupid end. Rage, rage, rage against the dying of the light...
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Exactly a year ago you were documenting a recession that Britain was supposedly entering into.
' Scott_P said:
@EdConwaySky: Credit Suisse: UK lead indicators are already consistent with a recession and will likely now worsen
There's a phrase I'm searching for here... '
Instead we got this reality:
' Manufacturing firms reported that both their total and export order books had strengthened to multi-decade highs in June, according to the CBI’s latest Industrial Trends Survey.
•27% of manufacturers reported total order books to be above normal, and 12% said they were below normal, giving a rounded balance of +16%. This was the highest level seen in nearly three decades, since August 1988 (+17%) •23% of firms said their export order books were above normal, and 10% said they were below normal, giving a balance of +13%. This was the highest balance since June 1995 (+20%) '
Isn't it interesting that the makers finally started marching when the deadweight of George Osborne was removed.
Yes, Toxic Tess telling a hard working young nurse that there is no magic money tree when she can swiftly fish out a billion quid from the back of the sofa to bribe a rabid bunch of sectarian homophobes is unedifying to put it mildly. No surrender!!
The flag waving nationalists need to STFU and leave the stage immediately. They are a disgrace and an embarrassment. Perhaps we can make them a homeland on the Isle of Man, where they can have Lodge meetings with their DUP masters and eat roast beef for dinner every night. No surrender to that foreign muck!
Hopeless. If the EU had wanted what you said, they only needed to ask for it and the UK would have agreed. In fact, they overreached thinking they could force the ECJ on the UK for citizens rights as a prelude for the same trick later in the trade talks. Now they will have to back down and make the first public concession in the negotiations.
Hopefully the EU continue to be this inept as we go forward.
The EU seems to have got what it wants - a UK commitment to creating a mechanism that ensures the UK cannot unilaterally change the rights of EU citizens residing in the UK post-Brexit. So, I'd say the EU's decision to make its opening position ECJ control was entirely rational.
I am not sure that I'd equate inept with securing your objective.
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Exactly a year ago you were documenting a recession that Britain was supposedly entering into.
' Scott_P said:
@EdConwaySky: Credit Suisse: UK lead indicators are already consistent with a recession and will likely now worsen
There's a phrase I'm searching for here... '
Instead we got this reality:
' Manufacturing firms reported that both their total and export order books had strengthened to multi-decade highs in June, according to the CBI’s latest Industrial Trends Survey.
•27% of manufacturers reported total order books to be above normal, and 12% said they were below normal, giving a rounded balance of +16%. This was the highest level seen in nearly three decades, since August 1988 (+17%) •23% of firms said their export order books were above normal, and 10% said they were below normal, giving a balance of +13%. This was the highest balance since June 1995 (+20%) '
Isn't it interesting that the makers finally started marching when the deadweight of George Osborne was removed.
Interesting. I heard that these are the last few months that things are going to look good following our massive devaluation. The pain is just down the road and should be in excruciating mode by the end of the year
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Exactly a year ago you were documenting a recession that Britain was supposedly entering into.
' Scott_P said:
@EdConwaySky: Credit Suisse: UK lead indicators are already consistent with a recession and will likely now worsen
There's a phrase I'm searching for here... '
Instead we got this reality:
' Manufacturing firms reported that both their total and export order books had strengthened to multi-decade highs in June, according to the CBI’s latest Industrial Trends Survey.
•27% of manufacturers reported total order books to be above normal, and 12% said they were below normal, giving a rounded balance of +16%. This was the highest level seen in nearly three decades, since August 1988 (+17%) •23% of firms said their export order books were above normal, and 10% said they were below normal, giving a balance of +13%. This was the highest balance since June 1995 (+20%) '
Isn't it interesting that the makers finally started marching when the deadweight of George Osborne was removed.
Interesting. I heard that these are the last few months that things are going to look good following our massive devaluation. The pain is just down the road and should be in excruciating mode by the end of the year
Maybe it will and maybe it wont.
But we were told that a year ago as well:
' Today, we are setting out our assessment of what would happen in the weeks and months after a vote to Leave on June 23.
It is clear that there would be an immediate and profound shock to our economy.
The analysis produced by the Treasury today shows that a vote to leave will push our economy into a recession that would knock 3.6 per cent off GDP and, over two years, put hundreds of thousands of people out of work right across the country, compared to the forecast for continued growth if we vote to remain in the EU.
In a more severe shock scenario, Treasury economists estimate that our economy could be hit by 6 per cent, there would be a deeper recession and unemployment would rise by even more. '
On a wider note the economy needs to rebalance into a more sustainable model and as with all change there will be winners and losers. People who over-consume via borrowing are likely to be among the losers.
Another twerp ignoring the fact we're leaving the EU.
Not ignoring it. Documenting the car crash in real time. Unlike the Brexiteers with their fingers in their ears singing "La, la, la, I can't hear you" as reality starts to bite
Please explain this reality you talk of.
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
I'm in the 75%, but only because I want to start the campaign to get back in as soon as possible. Remember whenever the subject comes up that we will be back in the EU sooner or later, probably sooner.
Comments
https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/how-am-i-represented/local-council
No idea who you vote for, if you're a Tory then you epitomise why May messed up so badly and why vast swathes of the country loathe the Conservative Party.
Have a think about why Corbyn is so popular and how you can combat it. Here's a clue, stop insulting people who vote for him, think Trump and Brexit and how that worked out.
But free stuff? What's not to like.
The Cons ran an abysmal campaign and god only knows what they think about any particular policy; they are all over the place. But they are 1,000,000 times better than a Corbyn-led Labour government.
Edit: and sadly, I must be away, but I will return & look at your response if there is one.
Of course there is always the possibility that Mayweather throws the match for a ludicrous money rematch, but that's the only way he will lose.
The money is all one way - for McGregor !
Because that turned out so well for you last year, and after he Tory party leadership election, and after the Article 50 Supreme Court decision.
Oh, wait...
Scarey report on the news this morning. The cyber attack was extremely sophisticated with several lines of attack and the ransomware demand was a crude add on that didn't work. Looks like a true state sponsered attack on IT systems. Don't know if Ukraine was specifically targeted but the collateral damage has been huge.
A gradual peeling away as the enormity of the error comes into focus.
I don't think it's too early to predict that as this episode reaches its climax towards the middle of next year the Leavers will be reduced to a rag-tag of 'the bigoted the ignorant and those who don't have the capacity to enquire' (the haggadah...ish)
The UK doesn't put stickers in passports any more)
The other week, the subject cropped up again. We were still 3 - 3 on the principle, but only one of us would be in favour of another referendum - and that was said with embarrassment. The two other Remainers' view ... we had a vote, the decision was made, now lets get on with it.
Remember that the few noisy people on here are just that. Few and noisy.
No opportunity to hedge/lay Swinson on Betfair?
You see the majority of the country voted to Leave, now 75% of us want it done and dusted - what part of that are you struggling with?
You fight how you train and McGregor trains to grapple people and kick them. Thai Kick boxers who step into boxing rings have a hard time of it as their stance is based around not gettin the shit kicked out of their legs - how does the public think a MMA fighter is going to fare?
"You" and the other King Canuters are still sulking and don't want Brexit at all.
You'll have to suck it up in the end, despite all the wailing.
When I said "The Brexiteers are having a nightmare that it's all falling apart. Trouble is, they're awake...", I didn't mean Brexit was not happening.
No, the nightmare for Brexiteers is that it IS happening, but it's not the Brexit of £350m a week of the NHS, or German car makers begging us for deal.
It's the Brexit we were warned about. We will be a much diminished Nation when all is said and done.
Still, blue passports are worth it, right?
McGregor won't get anywhere near him.
Hopefully the EU continue to be this inept as we go forward.
Just a thought.
"We can't get on with it until the government works out what it is."
The Government can propose, the negotiations will dispose. It will be confrontational and adversarial. We won't get what we ask for, and neither will the EU. Setting up 'must haves' when we're split on that is pointless. The EU want us to have the worst deal possible. We (whoever we are) want the best deal - that's basic politics.
I'll tell you what we'd like ... the best trade deal commensurate with leaving.
I'd expect our 'side' want the same. If they don't, they're on the EU's side. They're not traitors, they just think differently.
This doesn't in any way undermine the points Scott makes, which I think are all valid. It's just an indication that we are respectful of the referendum decision, and realistic enough to accept that backtracking now probably wouldn't do much good, even if it were possible.
NEW THREAD
' Scott_P said:
@EdConwaySky: Credit Suisse: UK lead indicators are already consistent with a recession and will likely now worsen
There's a phrase I'm searching for here... '
Instead we got this reality:
' Manufacturing firms reported that both their total and export order books had strengthened to multi-decade highs in June, according to the CBI’s latest Industrial Trends Survey.
•27% of manufacturers reported total order books to be above normal, and 12% said they were below normal, giving a rounded balance of +16%. This was the highest level seen in nearly three decades, since August 1988 (+17%)
•23% of firms said their export order books were above normal, and 10% said they were below normal, giving a balance of +13%. This was the highest balance since June 1995 (+20%) '
Isn't it interesting that the makers finally started marching when the deadweight of George Osborne was removed.
http://brexitcentral.com/uk-eu-will-square-citizens-rights/
But we were told that a year ago as well:
' Today, we are setting out our assessment of what would happen in the weeks and months after a vote to Leave on June 23.
It is clear that there would be an immediate and profound shock to our economy.
The analysis produced by the Treasury today shows that a vote to leave will push our economy into a recession that would knock 3.6 per cent off GDP and, over two years, put hundreds of thousands of people out of work right across the country, compared to the forecast for continued growth if we vote to remain in the EU.
In a more severe shock scenario, Treasury economists estimate that our economy could be hit by 6 per cent, there would be a deeper recession and unemployment would rise by even more. '
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/22/david-cameron-and-george-osborne-brexit-would-put-our-economy-in/
On a wider note the economy needs to rebalance into a more sustainable model and as with all change there will be winners and losers. People who over-consume via borrowing are likely to be among the losers.
"I like Brexit, so anyone who criticises it is an unpatriotic saboteur EU running dog"