Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The scale of LAB’s lead in the parliament’s first polls is unp

12467

Comments

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    Does it seem spot on to you that he is accusing all the Labour councils who have fitted this cladding of attempted murder?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,514
    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £1 billion of pork for Northern Ireland.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £1 billion of pork for Northern Ireland.
    That's a good deal for keeping Corbyn out to be perfectly honest.
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £££
    I billion apparently
    £100 Million per vote !
  • Options

    I find it very odd when I hear it said that the yoof are angry about Brexit because it means they can't work abroad.

    To work abroad, you usually have to be competent in the local language. The only exception is Holland where literally everyone including the homeless speaks English.

    What would a millennial do in Germany or Paris?

    At a guess, and this is just a guess, I'd say they would learn German or French. Millennials are capable of learning other languages.
    Then why do they not do so?
    http://esol.britishcouncil.org/content/learners/skills/reading/british-worst-learning-languages
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/sep/26/europeans-multiple-languages-uk-ireland
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    nunu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Penddu said:

    Today would be a good day for for JC to say that not only is he going to scrap Trident, but also that he will scrap (or preferably sell off)- the useless aircaft carriers that dont have any aircraft. And he should do it by saying that all of the money saved would be assigned to remaining armed forces who will be leaner and meaner - And also a good time to point out that UK Navy has more Admirals than ships.....

    ttps://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/879128853490262016
    Love the photo. 2 wealthy, elderly white males soaking up the applause from thousands of rich kids at an expensive and trendy social event. Yah.
    Quite.

    But why aren't the thousands of rich kids (and rich middle-aged people -- this is Glastonbury after all) voting Tory? That's the question.
    Broadly speaking the youth are anti Brexit, open minded, disinterested in the overall structure of the economy, unphased by rural and elderly matters, radical, dreamers and anti establishment.
    I.e. the Tories offer them nothing.

    Edit - and the tranche of youth that the blues might appeal to are still not voting.
    Plus, they don't feel rich.

    The university educated offspring of the middle classes see their own lives as being far inferior to that of their parents, who gamed the system and did well. That's what they see as unfair.

    It's unfair they can't buy a house in their twenties. It's unfair there aren't any jobs for life. Etc, etc.

    The thousands of twenty-and-thirty-somethings you see screaming for Jezza at Glastonbury may well be well educated, middle class by taste and birth, but that comes with certain expectations, e.g. home ownership.

    The fact they aren't rich enough to do so means they don't feel rich. ABC1/D2E classifications are meaningless now. Young-ish ABC1s still feel very poor.

    Hence why Jezza is a very middle class revolt.
    They feel poor but go abroad 6 times a year.
    I have family members like this. They work hard and do spend their money on holidays (and love Jezza (in the mid twentys),like a week in Tunisia or whatver but there's no point in saving for a home they will never afford anyway.

    It really is a middle-class revolt.
    Wait until inflation and interest rates start ramping up under labour, then we'll really see a revolt.
    I would like us to not reach that point. But the way the Conservatives are acting they might as well hand the keys over to Abbott.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,957

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    It's entirely true when you look at it from their perspective.

    Each month when your pay packet comes in, you see a separate deduction for student loans. On 36k, that is currently £137 a month on plan 1, £113 on plan 2.

    You can argue all you like about tax rates and personal allowances being different back in 1957, 1987, or 1887, but to today's twenty-something, who has no experience of anything but the present day, all they see is a big, fat deduction coming out of their pay packet that could be spent on something else - like a deposit for a house.

    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    It's the same principle behind itemising every amount of expenditure on your tax bill. If people saw, for example, £20 a month on Trident on every monthly payslip, there would probably be a lot more people joining CND.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £££
    £££bn I think Nabbers.
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited June 2017
    Ruth D's turn to deliver £3+ Billion for Scotland !
    https://twitter.com/KenReid_utv/status/879282786577899521
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2017

    Scott_P said:

    Penddu said:

    Today would be a good day for for JC to say that not only is he going to scrap Trident, but also that he will scrap (or preferably sell off)- the useless aircaft carriers that dont have any aircraft. And he should do it by saying that all of the money saved would be assigned to remaining armed forces who will be leaner and meaner - And also a good time to point out that UK Navy has more Admirals than ships.....

    ttps://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/879128853490262016
    Love the photo. 2 wealthy, elderly white males soaking up the applause from thousands of rich kids at an expensive and trendy social event. Yah.
    Quite.

    But why aren't the thousands of rich kids (and rich middle-aged people -- this is Glastonbury after all) voting Tory? That's the question.
    Indeed that is the question. And one I have yet to hear an answer from pb tories on how we get them to switch. All I have heard from them is blaming the voters.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Yorkcity said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    As noted by others, murder requires intent.
    Has Arson been definitely ruled out ?
    The FB seem confident it wasn't that, though I think that's because they were already there when the place went up.
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    I don't care for the use of the word "murder" by John McDonnell. The public aren't, however, going to accept that like Little Dorrit that the Grenfell disaster was Nobody's Fault.

    I think the Government need to think carefully about who will resign. As per my comments below as long as materials supplied match the design information, then it would seem strange that architects and building surveyors across the country have specified cladding that doesn't meet the relevant regulations. More likely poorly drafted British standard, or poorly conceived testing parameters, or grey areas in the regulations. When the Ronan Point disaster happened it led to huge changes in the building regulations.
  • Options
    kurtjesterkurtjester Posts: 121

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Plenty of vitriolic reaction to McDonnell's comments from the usual suspects. I do agree "murder" is a pretty strong term but once you get past the headline-grabbing words and consider what McDonnell has said, it's a different story.

    snip

    McDonnell has part of a point - public services have a role in shaping behaviours and customer through education, inspection and prevention and simply harping on about the rights of the individual and self-responsibility misses the point.

    Housing is a huge elephant in the political room - as someone living in the housing nightmare that is London, all I can say is that all parties need to acknowledge their responsibility for the mess it has become. No side is blameless - the question is more about how people want to live and it goes beyond four walls and a roof. Planning, in all its forms, may be derided by some but simply building houses and flats without supporting infrastructure doesn't help and the latter takes more time.

    I consider housing more important and more complex than Brexit and it's little wonder politicians struggle with it. Everyone sees the need for more affordable housing but no one wants it where they are and when property is many people's principal (and often only) capital asset you can understand why there is so much pressure to preserve its value. There is a clear concern that increasing supply and reducing demand will lead to a fall in prices and that's the last thing millions of people want or need.

    There is one key problem in housing - building them where they are needed. The Government needs a strategy for moving functions and industries out of London where possible. The boldest move would be to move central government away from London. This could be done and is why they don't want to do it for the Parliament refurbishment.
    Throw money at spending on a national High Speed Broadband programme. And double deck trains on commuter lines.
  • Options
    Have to say that seeing Wee Jeff and Arlene in No10 sticks in the craw given their shameful actions in 2003.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    So do the Tory backbenchers!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,360

    I find it very odd when I hear it said that the yoof are angry about Brexit because it means they can't work abroad.

    To work abroad, you usually have to be competent in the local language. The only exception is Holland where literally everyone including the homeless speaks English.

    What would a millennial do in Germany or Paris?

    At a guess, and this is just a guess, I'd say they would learn German or French. Millennials are capable of learning other languages.
    Then why do they not do so?
    http://esol.britishcouncil.org/content/learners/skills/reading/british-worst-learning-languages
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/sep/26/europeans-multiple-languages-uk-ireland
    I would be interested in the breakdown of nationalities of Eurostar staff. In the several times recently I have travelled with them, it appears there are only non-Brits working and making the announcements. It did strike me to wonder how fluent a Brit would be at that age to make such technical announcements.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    JackW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £££
    £££bn I think Nabbers.
    It was very generous of the youngsters who voted in such high numbers to make it possible and necessary to use their money for this noble purpose, and a particularly nice touch that at the same time they protected the oldies.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,709

    I don't care for the use of the word "murder" by John McDonnell. The public aren't, however, going to accept that like Little Dorrit that the Grenfell disaster was Nobody's Fault.

    When the Ronan Point disaster happened it led to huge changes in the building regulations.
    Yeah but it's SO dull talking about BORING building regs. Much more FUN to blame the evil Tories Murdering poor people.
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Breaking: DUP secure £1bn in funding to cure the gays.

  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £1 billion of pork for Northern Ireland.
    Any chance Yorkshire getting some more billions ?
  • Options
    kurtjesterkurtjester Posts: 121
    edited June 2017
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    Perhaps they should be discouraged from taking shit degrees from opportunist and in many cases piss poor universities, in the first place?

    If there's anger, a bit more needs to be diverted towards the educational establishments that aren't providing them with the quality of teaching that's fully deserved for their money. That's the scandal.
  • Options
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    It's entirely true when you look at it from their perspective.

    Each month when your pay packet comes in, you see a separate deduction for student loans. On 36k, that is currently £137 a month on plan 1, £113 on plan 2.

    You can argue all you like about tax rates and personal allowances being different back in 1957, 1987, or 1887, but to today's twenty-something, who has no experience of anything but the present day, all they see is a big, fat deduction coming out of their pay packet that could be spent on something else - like a deposit for a house.

    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    It's the same principle behind itemising every amount of expenditure on your tax bill. If people saw, for example, £20 a month on Trident on every monthly payslip, there would probably be a lot more people joining CND.

    Something's either true or it's not. Perspective doesn't make an untruth true.

    When I graduated I lost 27% of my salary to tax. Anyone on the same money would have lost the same.

    Someone on the equivalent today would lose 23% to tax. Without a degree they would lose less.

    23% is less than 27%.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,360

    JackW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £££
    £££bn I think Nabbers.
    It was very generous of the youngsters who voted in such high numbers to make it possible and necessary to use their money for this noble purpose, and a particularly nice touch that at the same time they protected the oldies.
    protected the rich oldies.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Chris said:

    I don't think he did say they had been "neglected". He said they were "murdered by political decisions that were taken over recent decades". He is saying that because of those politicial decisions, the refurbishment proved fatal.

    Of course, it's stupid to use the word "murdered". But for the rest of it, something has clearly gone very badly wrong indeed. Why would anyone assume political decisions weren't involved?

    What were these political decisions, exactly? Tony Blair deciding to use inflammable cladding? Gordon Brown rubbing his hands in glee at the tuppence-hapenny savings that could be made by using the cheaper cladding, and hoping to blame dozens of deaths on a Tory council? Cameron deciding that deaths in social housing were OK?

    McDonnell is either certifiably insane, or, more likely, a very nasty and cynical politician whose moral compass is completely blown to smithereens.
    ...certifiably insane ... nasty ... cynical ... vile ... scum ...

    But the crucial question is whether his diagnosis is right. Maybe it's too early to say. But what mystifies me is that anyone would assume that political decisions _didn't_ play a part in this astonishing mess.

    It also surprises me that anyone should interpret an attack on political decisions made over "decades" as a personal attack on Theresa May, who has been prime minister only since last year. Or that McDonnell wouldn't necessarily be including people like Tony Blair.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,273
    edited June 2017
    calum said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £££
    I billion apparently
    £100 Million per vote !
    Money will spent if it means we don't endure another GE this year.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    Last reminder that distraction from McMurder is available with my detailed look back at a hectic race:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/azerbaijan-post-race-analysis-2017.html

    Not sure if I'll keep notes on a regular basis (generally it really isn't necessary) but it's a lucky coincidence I decided to go down that route for a race that turned out to be full of incident.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,360
    Yorkcity said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £1 billion of pork for Northern Ireland.
    Any chance Yorkshire getting some more billions ?
    Every chance. You need to establish a political party that wants to cede from the UK, attract millions of votes, and then allow yourself to be bribed to support whichever government wants your support.

    Or alternatively, with those millions of votes, cede from the UK.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    tlg86 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    As noted by others, murder requires intent.
    Has Arson been definitely ruled out ?
    The FB seem confident it wasn't that, though I think that's because they were already there when the place went up.
    Thanks I was amazed a fridge freezer could do such damage.When you think they are left on day and night.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    So if NI gets an extra £1bn, how much more has to be found for EWS? Austerity is well and truly over.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Does May's deal with the DUP mean that Jeremy has to resign as PM?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,778
    Yorkcity said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    As noted by others, murder requires intent.
    Has Arson been definitely ruled out ?
    The fire brigade have said they extinguished the original fire which started in a fridge freezer, so it looks unlikely.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134
    edited June 2017

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    Does it seem spot on to you that he is accusing all the Labour councils who have fitted this cladding of attempted murder?
    I must have missed that bit! (I suspect you may have been taken in by some fake news ...)
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    Perhaps they should be discouraged from taking shit degrees from opportunist and in many cases piss poor universities, in the first place?
    how out of touch can you get.

    Many have first class degrees from the top universities in STEM fields and still can't get decent jobs. The reasons are many.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    edited June 2017
    tlg86 said:

    So if NI gets an extra £1bn, how much more has to be found for EWS? Austerity is well and truly over.

    Nice of London to vote Labour for a hung parliament so other regions can get some pie.

    North East Derbyshire is a marginal now... ^_~
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,778
    edited June 2017
    Best quote on Sky News 'Signing agreement looked like a gay wedding' .....(two chaps signing documents while middle aged people look on)
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,957
    edited June 2017

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    It's entirely true when you look at it from their perspective.

    Each month when your pay packet comes in, you see a separate deduction for student loans. On 36k, that is currently £137 a month on plan 1, £113 on plan 2.

    You can argue all you like about tax rates and personal allowances being different back in 1957, 1987, or 1887, but to today's twenty-something, who has no experience of anything but the present day, all they see is a big, fat deduction coming out of their pay packet that could be spent on something else - like a deposit for a house.

    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    It's the same principle behind itemising every amount of expenditure on your tax bill. If people saw, for example, £20 a month on Trident on every monthly payslip, there would probably be a lot more people joining CND.

    Something's either true or it's not. Perspective doesn't make an untruth true.

    When I graduated I lost 27% of my salary to tax. Anyone on the same money would have lost the same.

    Someone on the equivalent today would lose 23% to tax. Without a degree they would lose less.

    23% is less than 27%.
    House prices were also considerably less than they were now, both in absolute terms and in salary-to-price ratios.

    Saying, "ah yes, but the tax code is different now so you pay a bit less tax which will really help you out in saving for a deposit while you cram yourselves into tiny house-shares and work unstable jobs you could lose tomorrow" is not going to help the Tories win any votes.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151


    Plus, what he says is absolutely, 100% bonkers:

    "The decision not to build homes and to view housing as only for financial speculation rather than for meeting a basic human need made by politicians over decades murdered those families."

    As non-sequiturs go, that's a humdinger. It's verging on insane. Spending millions on refurbishing social housing is viewing housing only for financial speculation?

    British housing policy has been certifiably bonkers since at least Thatcher. Maybe putting an insane person in charge of it is the best way to make it work? Think of it like putting Boris+DD+Fox in charge of Brexit.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Breaking: DUP secure £1bn in funding to cure the gays.

    Ignoring the second part of that comment.

    Sorry if England is not getting it's fair share that is unacceptable. I will not be voting Conservative at the next election because they are not conservative in the least!

    May can feck off!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    calum said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I wonder what is in the deal :o

    £££
    I billion apparently
    £100 Million per vote !
    Money will spent if it means we don't endure another GE this year.
    £20m per vote per year seems very good value.....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2017
    If May had any sense, in the next budget they would announce say £200 million more for NHS by 2022 or so. Given inflation, in real terms it wouldn't be a mega amount more cash, but it would enable Boris and co to bury the bus stuff.

    Also, it would probably be the right thing to do given the strain on the NHS.
  • Options
    kurtjesterkurtjester Posts: 121
    nunu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    Perhaps they should be discouraged from taking shit degrees from opportunist and in many cases piss poor universities, in the first place?
    how out of touch can you get.

    Many have first class degrees from the top universities in STEM fields and still can't get decent jobs. The reasons are many.
    Look at how poorly UK universities perform in the world rankings. Many kids are being sold utter dogs of degrees. No wonder they're hacked off.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,334
    Yorkcity said:

    tlg86 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    As noted by others, murder requires intent.
    Has Arson been definitely ruled out ?
    The FB seem confident it wasn't that, though I think that's because they were already there when the place went up.
    Thanks I was amazed a fridge freezer could do such damage.When you think they are left on day and night.
    The thing is the fire was extingushed and the fire fighters were packing up to leave when the cladding started to go on fire. Amazingly they were there but could not contain it.

    On the issue of electrical and gas appliances in rental property I expect legislation will follow that annual safety checks, in line with the present legal requirement for annual certification of gas boilers, will be compulsory
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017
    Chris said:

    But the crucial question is whether his diagnosis is right. Maybe it's too early to say. But what mystifies me is that anyone would assume that political decisions _didn't_ play a part in this astonishing mess.

    Err, if someone is going to allege that 'political decisions' were tantamount to murder, don't you think that the onus is on the person making that inflammatory and potentially libellous allegation to explain the causal link* between a specific political decision and the deaths? Otherwise (assuming he is sane) it is just rabble-rousing of the most despicable variety - Ms Apocalypse complained upthread that the comparisons with Hitler and Stalin were ridiculous, but this line of McDonnell's is straight out of the playbook.

    * Preferably having first waited for the facts to be ascertained, although I appreciate that that is unfashionable.
  • Options
    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    We actually are screwd if May gives in this easily to the DUP when she didn't need to then what is she going to do with Brexit?! ffs sake's someone put her out of her misery, she is ruining this country now.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    nunu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    Perhaps they should be discouraged from taking shit degrees from opportunist and in many cases piss poor universities, in the first place?
    how out of touch can you get.

    Many have first class degrees from the top universities in STEM fields and still can't get decent jobs. The reasons are many.
    Look at how poorly UK universities perform in the world rankings. Many kids are being sold utter dogs of degrees. No wonder they're hacked off.
    Is this sarcastic? We have world class universities - they are definitely an area where Britain punches above its weight.

    In the top 10 of QS World Rankings, are Cambridge, Oxford, UCL and Imperial College London.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,360

    If May had any sense, in the next budget they would announce say £200 million more for NHS by 2022 or so. Given inflation, in real terms it wouldn't be a mega amount more cash, but it would enable Boris and co to bury the bus stuff.

    Also, it would probably be the right thing to do given the strain on the NHS.

    And then education.

    Cons are in danger of lapsing back still further into nastiness. They need to spend money on health and education, and then try some infrastructure spending.

    A bit too Jonathan Pie-ish nicking Lab's manifesto? Who cares. It needs to be done and right-thinking people (both small and capital "r") realise this.

    Many more headlines of the NHS struggling or teachers being sacked for lack of money (by all means conduct reviews into it all) and the Cons will be out of power for another 13 years when the GE comes.

    Regardless of Brexit.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,778

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    SKY said its contingent on power sharing being resumed.

  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,334
    Arlene Foster live on Sky in Downing Street
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,709


    Plus, what he says is absolutely, 100% bonkers:

    "The decision not to build homes and to view housing as only for financial speculation rather than for meeting a basic human need made by politicians over decades murdered those families."

    As non-sequiturs go, that's a humdinger. It's verging on insane. Spending millions on refurbishing social housing is viewing housing only for financial speculation?

    British housing policy has been certifiably bonkers since at least Thatcher. Maybe putting an insane person in charge of it is the best way to make it work? Think of it like putting Boris+DD+Fox in charge of Brexit.
    We had an increase in population of 500,000 last year. There's no way that it won't be bonkers with those numbers.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,514

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    nunu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    Perhaps they should be discouraged from taking shit degrees from opportunist and in many cases piss poor universities, in the first place?
    how out of touch can you get.

    Many have first class degrees from the top universities in STEM fields and still can't get decent jobs. The reasons are many.
    Look at how poorly UK universities perform in the world rankings. Many kids are being sold utter dogs of degrees. No wonder they're hacked off.
    I am talking about degrees from UCL and KIngs, they are top Universities, I know many people from those Uni's with STEM degrees who can't get decent jobs.

    Yes I agree Uni should not have beeen expanded to the extent they have but even youngsters (well now in their late 20's) can't get full time jobs on avreage wages, so you know don't blame them.
  • Options
    FangsyFangsy Posts: 28
    Somebody left a wager on Betfair of there being a Lab + SNP + LD coalition at only 36. They've just had all £20k matched...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,778

    Does May's deal with the DUP mean that Jeremy has to resign as PM?

    +1
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    LOL, I feel no sympathy for those who take Trump at face value.

    You have to wonder why the GOP actually want to pass this bill though. This is much worse than Obamacare and will have a hugely negative impact on the lives of millions, including their own voters.

    Have to say, I'm glad I don't live in America. Wouldn't like to be in a country where they are the alternative.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited June 2017
    £1bn in "new money" over two years and £500m in "additional spending power" - Arlene

  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,334
    Think the DUP will have a big rise in popularity in Northern Ireland
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    £1 Bn.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,778

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    No! No! Lets rush to judgement in absence of facts.....

    I wonder if any money will be going to border infrastructure......
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,273

    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    LOL, I feel no sympathy for those who take Trump at face value.

    You have to wonder why the GOP actually want to pass this bill though. This is much worse than Obamacare and will have a hugely negative impact on the lives of millions, including their own voters.

    Have to say, I'm glad I don't live in America. Wouldn't like to be in a country where they are the alternative.
    If they pass this as it sounds then goodbye to the 2018 elections for GOP.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    £1 Bn.
    Presumably there's a bit more to it than that!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,778
    edited June 2017
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    I find it very odd when I hear it said that the yoof are angry about Brexit because it means they can't work abroad.

    To work abroad, you usually have to be competent in the local language. The only exception is Holland where literally everyone including the homeless speaks English.

    What would a millennial do in Germany or Paris?

    At a guess, and this is just a guess, I'd say they would learn German or French. Millennials are capable of learning other languages.
    Then why do they not do so?
    http://esol.britishcouncil.org/content/learners/skills/reading/british-worst-learning-languages
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/sep/26/europeans-multiple-languages-uk-ireland
    They do. According to that, 38% of Britons speak a foreign language. It's less than other countries sure, but still a sizeable amount. Of the 62% there is likely to be a higher amount of people who don't have any interest in moving abroad at least in part because of language issues, so the 38% of people that do speak another language are more likely to want to move abroad.

    Additionally, if you are qualified or have experience, you won't have much trouble finding a job in Paris without French - all the big banks for example, French or otherwise, work almost entirely in English. My understanding is that Germany is also pretty open to English speakers. I can imagine places like Italy or Portugal being more difficult.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    It's quite astounding. I have put some money on the Dems for the mid-terms after initially thinking they had no chance of taking the house.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Given McDonnell's comments about UK democracy being responsible for Grenfell tower (and also his pledge to flood the Lords with 1000 peers). I don't think it is ridiculous to think that he has in mind something a bit beyond implementing the measures in the Labour manifesto. He doesn't accept that he was a part of a "Labour" govt for 13 of the last 30 years, and wants to permanently alter the political situation in the country.

    The only way that can happen is through some sort of revolution.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    What is happening in America is insane.

    At least the ones most effected by this bill (white working class rural voters) will be Trump voters. They voted for it they need to take responsibility for their vote.
  • Options
    So now it's all over to SF. They can embarrass both DUP and the UK Government by failing to appoint a DFM. But in doing so they will directly cost many of their voters money.

    The SoS has to tell the DUP and SF that all MLAs and staff are put on notice on Thursday if there's no deal.

    He has to tell them that today.

    Then it's in both parties' self interest to get Stormont back up and running.

    I still rate the chance as no better than 50/50.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    LOL, I feel no sympathy for those who take Trump at face value.

    You have to wonder why the GOP actually want to pass this bill though. This is much worse than Obamacare and will have a hugely negative impact on the lives of millions, including their own voters.

    Have to say, I'm glad I don't live in America. Wouldn't like to be in a country where they are the alternative.
    If they pass this as it sounds then goodbye to the 2018 elections for GOP.
    Why do they want to commit electoral suicide? Passing such unpopular legislation means that by the time the Dems win the Presidency again there is likely to be a demand to get rid of 'Trumpcare.'
  • Options
    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited June 2017

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Keeping Corbyn and McDonnell away from power is putting the interests of the country first. Let the grown ups do the politics and the business of government.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    SKY said its contingent on power sharing being resumed.

    Given that seems to be currently contingent on Arlene being punished for Cash-For-Ash that means never then.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Pulpstar said:

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    £1 Bn.
    Presumably there's a bit more to it than that!
    Another £500m .. :smile:
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    Must say, well done to the DUP. A pair of Jacks well played.
  • Options
    saddosaddo Posts: 534
    Pulpstar said:

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    £1 Bn.
    A bit cheaper than Labour's £500bn borrowing, £48bn extra tax take per year & the unknown magic money tree costs
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,514
    Alistair said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    It's quite astounding. I have put some money on the Dems for the mid-terms after initially thinking they had no chance of taking the house.
    I know I shouldn't laugh, but those clips of Trump supporters thinking Obamacare and The Affordable Care Act were two different things.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    It means shacking up with the DUP just before peak marching season. I hope you like "No Popery" banners.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    Mr. Alex, hadn't heard the thousand peers pledge.

    I wonder if the jesters of the PLP are still slapping their hands together at the murder comments of their glorious Economy Czar.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    As noted by others, murder requires intent.
    Plus, what he says is absolutely, 100% bonkers:

    "The decision not to build homes and to view housing as only for financial speculation rather than for meeting a basic human need made by politicians over decades murdered those families."

    As non-sequiturs go, that's a humdinger. It's verging on insane. Spending millions on refurbishing social housing is viewing housing only for financial speculation?

    McDonnell's use of violent language here and previously is very revealing. He is a deeply unpleasant man. This whole murder meme is also disgraceful. Kensington & Chelsea can be criticised for how it is has responded to the Grenfell tragedy, but it is clear that cladding is an issue across the country in multiple types of building. If Grenfell was murder, then all these are attempted murder. The Labour left is over-reaching and revealing its true colours. It will end up costing the party at the polls. - unless the Tories do something stupid like putting Boris or Davis in charge.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946

    So now it's all over to SF. They can embarrass both DUP and the UK Government by failing to appoint a DFM. But in doing so they will directly cost many of their voters money.

    The SoS has to tell the DUP and SF that all MLAs and staff are put on notice on Thursday if there's no deal.

    He has to tell them that today.

    Then it's in both parties' self interest to get Stormont back up and running.

    I still rate the chance as no better than 50/50.

    Thanks for that Lucian.

    To be honest, British politics despite its current state of flux seems pretty sensible compared to the NI politics....
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    I find it very odd when I hear it said that the yoof are angry about Brexit because it means they can't work abroad.

    To work abroad, you usually have to be competent in the local language. The only exception is Holland where literally everyone including the homeless speaks English.

    What would a millennial do in Germany or Paris?

    At a guess, and this is just a guess, I'd say they would learn German or French. Millennials are capable of learning other languages.
    Then why do they not do so?
    http://esol.britishcouncil.org/content/learners/skills/reading/british-worst-learning-languages
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/sep/26/europeans-multiple-languages-uk-ireland
    They do. According to that, 38% of Britons speak a foreign language. It's less than other countries sure, but still a sizeable amount. Of the 62% there is likely to be a higher amount of people who don't have any interest in moving abroad at least in part because of language issues, so the 38% of people that do speak another language are more likely to want to move abroad.

    Additionally, if you are qualified or have experience, you won't have much trouble finding a job in Paris without French - all the big banks for example, French or otherwise, work almost entirely in English. My understanding is that Germany is also pretty open to English speakers. I can imagine places like Italy or Portugal being more difficult.

    How many of the 38% have the foreign language as a second language (as opposed to a first and/or family language)?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,514
    ‪Hearing as part of the DUP deal there's a new Northern Ireland Minister to be created, title is the Minister of State for Saving Ulster From Sodomy‬
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    It's quite astounding. I have put some money on the Dems for the mid-terms after initially thinking they had no chance of taking the house.
    I know I shouldn't laugh, but those clips of Trump supporters thinking Obamacare and The Affordable Care Act were two different things.
    I'd join the schadenfreudery too but I've read the stories of too many people on other forums with chronic medical conditions who are about to be utterly destroyed by this bill to laugh.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Alistair said:

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    It means shacking up with the DUP just before peak marching season. I hope you like "No Popery" banners.
    May has just killed Scot Tories recovery stone dead if Scotland doesn't get it's share of money, hasn't she?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,778

    ‪Hearing as part of the DUP deal there's a new Northern Ireland Minister to be created, title is the Minister of State for Saving Ulster From Sodomy‬

    https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docs26062017/Confidence+and+Supply+Agreement+between+the+Conservative+Party+and+the+D....pdf
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Alistair said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    It's quite astounding. I have put some money on the Dems for the mid-terms after initially thinking they had no chance of taking the house.
    I know I shouldn't laugh, but those clips of Trump supporters thinking Obamacare and The Affordable Care Act were two different things.
    Yes, I remember reading about that.

    Still can't get over them wanting to take away millions of people's health insurance.

    Ironically these are the same people who call themselves 'pro-life'....
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    nunu said:

    Alistair said:

    That cash better not be spent until Stormont is sorted.

    I also think this is bloody stupid politics by the Tories.

    They could have secured DUP support without this big show of document signing which makes it look like a coalition. Now they get ZERO credit for U-turns on triple lock and any investment in public services.

    Actually, scrap bloody stupid, it's insane.

    They have made it look more like Theresa May is beholden to the DUP than is actually the case. I can't see how that plays well, electorally.

    As I noted on June 11th, Mrs May is putting herself ahead of the best interests of the Tory Party and the country.

    She is a disgrace.
    Let's wait and see what the deal actually comprises.
    It means shacking up with the DUP just before peak marching season. I hope you like "No Popery" banners.
    May has just killed Scot Tories recovery stone dead if Scotland doesn't get it's share of money, hasn't she?
    I think we'll be seeing some SCon media hibernation for a while given the way they all went to ground when the DUP deal was first mooted.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    tlg86 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    As noted by others, murder requires intent.
    Has Arson been definitely ruled out ?
    The FB seem confident it wasn't that, though I think that's because they were already there when the place went up.
    Thanks I was amazed a fridge freezer could do such damage.When you think they are left on day and night.
    The thing is the fire was extingushed and the fire fighters were packing up to leave when the cladding started to go on fire. Amazingly they were there but could not contain it.

    On the issue of electrical and gas appliances in rental property I expect legislation will follow that annual safety checks, in line with the present legal requirement for annual certification of gas boilers, will be compulsory
    Thanks Big G did not realise that even more amazing then that FB there and as you say could not contain it.I presume warm night window open.The cladding in those circumstances seems deplorable.Who made the stuff and who passed it fit for use in such circumstances seems to be a major question.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,360

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    I struggle to understand what the problem is with McDonnells comments (as reported on the bbc);

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

    What he said seems spot on to me.

    As noted by others, murder requires intent.
    Plus, what he says is absolutely, 100% bonkers:

    "The decision not to build homes and to view housing as only for financial speculation rather than for meeting a basic human need made by politicians over decades murdered those families."

    As non-sequiturs go, that's a humdinger. It's verging on insane. Spending millions on refurbishing social housing is viewing housing only for financial speculation?

    McDonnell's use of violent language here and previously is very revealing. He is a deeply unpleasant man. This whole murder meme is also disgraceful. Kensington & Chelsea can be criticised for how it is has responded to the Grenfell tragedy, but it is clear that cladding is an issue across the country in multiple types of building. If Grenfell was murder, then all these are attempted murder. The Labour left is over-reaching and revealing its true colours. It will end up costing the party at the polls. - unless the Tories do something stupid like putting Boris or Davis in charge.
    Or...the country is in the mood for this kind of thing.

    Here are we pondering and considering and supposing. Meanwhile, the mood hasn't changed all that much from Brexit, Trump, and Jezza's renaissance. 'Cept of course it's a lot hotter right now.
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Dissaproving parents looking on !
  • Options

    What is confidence and supply?

    All you need to know about the 'coalition lite' deal between the Tories and the DUPhttps://t.co/U9UqyeKxri pic.twitter.com/4K4u4CDlBj

    — Mirror Politics (@MirrorPolitics) June 26, 2017

    Does any picture show how denuded of talent the Government is. This is a faceoff between a party of hundreds of MPs v one with ten. You'd back the team on the right to win an argument every day of every week over the one on the left.
  • Options
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Oh, and the real kicker is the repayment on the university fees, which your parents didn't pay

    Untrue. When you correct for lower personal allowances and higher tax rates, your parents paid more, and they did so whether or not they had a degree.
    It's entirely true when you look at it from their perspective.

    Each month when your pay packet comes in, you see a separate deduction for student loans. On 36k, that is currently £137 a month on plan 1, £113 on plan 2.

    You can argue all you like about tax rates and personal allowances being different back in 1957, 1987, or 1887, but to today's twenty-something, who has no experience of anything but the present day, all they see is a big, fat deduction coming out of their pay packet that could be spent on something else - like a deposit for a house.

    They know that tuition fees are a recent thing and that their parents didn't pay them. Therefore they quite rightly get annoyed at that £137 a month deduction for what for most of them ends up turning out to be a fairly worthless bit of paper.

    It's the same principle behind itemising every amount of expenditure on your tax bill. If people saw, for example, £20 a month on Trident on every monthly payslip, there would probably be a lot more people joining CND.

    Something's either true or it's not. Perspective doesn't make an untruth true.

    When I graduated I lost 27% of my salary to tax. Anyone on the same money would have lost the same.

    Someone on the equivalent today would lose 23% to tax. Without a degree they would lose less.

    23% is less than 27%.
    House prices were also considerably less than they were now, both in absolute terms and in salary-to-price ratios.

    Saying, "ah yes, but the tax code is different now so you pay a bit less tax which will really help you out in saving for a deposit while you cram yourselves into tiny house-shares and work unstable jobs you could lose tomorrow" is not going to help the Tories win any votes.
    What do they think the state should do to lower house prices, and what should it do for people who suffer if they do?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    Mr. Pulpstar, be fair. It was more like playing Austin Powers at blackjack.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkzMA1jrm00
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The most significant aspect of this deal is the final paragraph. This is in principle a five year deal.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,514
    edited June 2017
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Meanwhile over in America - the Republicans may be close to the Senate passing a healthcare bill. If it's anything like previous versions - over 20 million people will lose health insurance.

    I'm trying to think of a parallel for this in history and really struggling.

    If you followed any of Sarah Kliffe's excellent interviews with Trump voters in Kentucky who are on Obamacare - they simply didn't believe he would do this.

    If it goes through, and it still might not, what the hell is going to happen?

    It's quite astounding. I have put some money on the Dems for the mid-terms after initially thinking they had no chance of taking the house.
    I know I shouldn't laugh, but those clips of Trump supporters thinking Obamacare and The Affordable Care Act were two different things.
    I'd join the schadenfreudery too but I've read the stories of too many people on other forums with chronic medical conditions who are about to be utterly destroyed by this bill to laugh.
    Aye
This discussion has been closed.